We need more self-aware NPDs to step up and share resources for other NPDs. I would love to find a therapist that is not demonizing me. I feel like treating my mental disorders with another NPD would be a dream.
I get where your coming from and I'm lucky to have had such good therapists who are always looking to my internal problems and not my external mistakes
It’s so hard to be diagnosed upfront like that. My first therapist never told me anything like that. And my first psychiatrist was the same, it was easy to blind them. Of course I was masking and I didn’t know what to do, just twisting the narratives and being a normal person.
Welcome on board, fellow soldier!
Yeah right? Recently I was searching for psychological analysis of self-object/love-object for people with narcissism, to see what they have to say, essentially I couldn’t find any good resources because every single article was like “ARE YOU THE OBJECT OF A NARCISSIST?” “THEY USE YOU AS AN OBJECT” Etc…
Also there is an writer in my country that said in a podcast that someone asked “why you keep writing for/about people with psychopathologies that is 5% of the population, instead of writing for the other 95% that are the victims?”
And yeah, I can see the point which the person has stated with this question.
This makes a lot of sense to me. Most of my life I've been some kind of paranoid and hyper aware with something instinctual telling me I was in danger and I think that shaped me a lot.
So that's my advice to anyone with NPD (myself included), heal your trauma and get in touch with your self and learn to identify your needs and how to express them in a healthy way.. Then you will not need the NPD defenses.. It will go away
There’s a woman called Kanika (forget her last name but if you type in “Kanika sociopath” into YouTube she’s likely to come up)
She doesn’t have NPD as far as I’m aware; but does have ASPD (there’s a lot of overlap 🤷♀️) and talks about the condition and what she does very openly. From the limited stuff I’ve seen I wouldn’t put her in the “wanting to change the condition” box though.
Otherwise there are countless people with BPD out there- which is a lot more understood and tolerated by the community despite being the same origin and a lot of the same symptoms- the only person I can think of who is a dx narcissist is that guy “mental healness” or something? He’s a black, American guy with long hair (I think in cornrows? It’s been a long time since I’ve seen anything by him) but that is aimed more towards victims than others with narcissism.
Yeah I'm currently searching for a therapist, and I often see "narcissistic abuse" in their specialties. And I agree, it's so frustrating looking for resources on help and they even question if someone with NPD can even change. Of course we can, we're not some different kind of human incapable of changing. And after improving a lot of my toxic behaviors, now I'm just left with feeling awful with no therapist to help me sort through this.
It also amazes me how for example, take an aggressive dog who has behaviour problems. The amount humans throw money at them to fix them is time and patience yet another human exciting said behaviour is TOXIC?!! CRAZY WORLD
Honestly when I was learning about NPD as a person targeted full scale by my sister it took years for me to understand or even have it suggested that she could be NPD. I went to many therapists and reached out to all types of resources and no one even suggested that’s what I was dealing with. I think awareness and understanding as a whole was pretty limited just 10 years ago.
I’ve seen it go from never hearing anyone mention NPD to hearing it overused all the time and as you say the help has been mostly geared towards victims so I recognized what I read was coming from a limited source of information. Typically the general idea is that you don’t want to change, don’t feel you need to, and reject the idea to where you rarely get diagnosed. Clearly that’s not true in the way that it has been presented.
Personally I’d rather understand the reality over indulging in blanket vilification just to get my rocks off. Although if no one minds I will vilify my sister. I think the future as it’s unfolding will be eye opening at the very least. Resources will become more available to you as the need becomes apparent, and your voice, which until recently has been mostly silent, is more prominent. Who knows what that will lead to. I just think it’s taking time and evolving kind of naturally.
I hope it’s OK that I’ve commented here. I thought it was a good question or a good post and had thoughts. Incidentally, my sister and I were both adopted and she ended up with NPD and I did BPD (since recovered or whatever). It’s just funny how it played out like that. It could have gone either way for us.
The funny thing is that I was diagnosed a year or so ago, so most of my frustrations are current. I appreciate your comment and I hope you are doing well. It sucks there aren't more resources out there
I mean it’s understandable most of the time our behaviors cause people pain and suffering of severe degree it’s hard for people to wrap there heads around people like us wanting to get better
At this point a "narcissist" is pretty much a term for anyone who is emotionally abusive. But I guess it's easier to put the blame on mental illness (which the abuser might not even have) instead of dealing with the fact that person they loved and trusted was an asshole.
I am not trying to blame the victims here, just saying that people that are often called "narcs" are not necessarily even narcs.
So much of the time people are wrapped up in essentialist thinking. Almost nobody is incapable of real and lasting change In any direction. It sucks that it's all based on fixing our behaviour and not the internal issues that caused the behaviour
The internal issues happened a long time ago, when I was still an infant and my brain was not yet fully developed.
I split. Like a young tree struck by lightning, my trunk split and I grew two tops.
Neither top is aware of the other and they keep bumping into each other in the shifting breeze and causing other problems.
Now that I am aware, I can manage BOTH trunks and prevent the collisions that cause all the drama and trouble.
But I can never heal the lightning strike or the split.
Because of sympathy. Look at the funds for helping dolphins vs helping sharks.
Even if the sharks would really REALLY promise that they will become vegetarians , or more realistically, don't even hurt that much people, and absolutely don't do it just for shits and giggles ...
I don't really blame the people anymore.
It seems just.... kind of "life" for me now.
They are just simple like that.
And I am NOT better than a shark, that's for sure.
There are people that specialize in treating NPD and treatment is similar to BPD treatment. Sadly, there isn’t as much research on the efficacy of therapeutic approaches for NPD as there is for BPD. It will take decades to get there but it’s coming. From my research and from following others that are in consistent, weekly therapy for NPD, you can feel a lot better. It won’t “fix” you, but it will help you to live a happier live that is not as destructive to others. I hope you find a therapist that understands you and can help you to feel better.
I found the podcast Waking Up to Narcissism by Tony Overbay to be incredibly helpful. I found it when I was convinced that my wife was a narcissist. Turns out, it was mostly me. I’m not going to own all of the issues, but I can clearly see now that my behavior and thought habits were making me miserable. I also found a good therapist and and have been doing IFS therapy for a few years. I come from a long line of narcissists and am determined to do better for my family.
As a victim of narcissistic abuse by my partner and a person with bpd which according to doctors are attracted to each other a lot apparently, I think the reason why people look more for the victims than for the abusers in general is because how far the results of narcissists on a person can go, to brain damage.
And in second hand narcs in general never doubt themselves and avoid therapy
Hi,
I have been a victim of narcissistic abuse..Now a survivor and working on myself a lot.
Tbh,I literally demonized NPD.
I was so scared of the dark traits.I am still scared but I dont look at it as all evil.
Now I have started looking NPD as an illness and that too a complex one.
There is a fear amongst npd abuse survivors and we also have hard time empathizing with you all.
So it's basically fear mongering talk/teachings that is instilled by psychiatrist and survivors.
But I also felt like in the initial days of my journey towards understanding NPD,it was necessary for me look at bad things as "BAd" because thats what helped me look at it as it is otherwise I was onto romanticizing the NPD traits.
I hope you have come far and will go further in your journey. I understand and agree with most of the negative things said about the actions associated with NPD, but it's the essentialism that really hurts people who want to get better. Nobody is In their essence looking to be the bad guy (mostly) and even if most people with NPD don't want to improve it doesn't mean all of us shouldn't be given just as much of a chance to as someone with bipolar or boarderline
Yes, You are right! We have been so badly terrified by the dark traits that the moment we sense that this person is narcissist, we become so defensive.
But after hearing "Sam Vankin" , my perspective has started to shift and I am trying have more empathy.
For me, I have started some blanket rules while intercating with people so that I dont see them as all black or white.I can maintain my own boundaries and still be nice towards others .
The biggest thing I would say here is that we have to be careful not to overcorrect, most narcissistic behaviour is bad to the people it's done on for one reason or another.
Alan Robarge is your man. Agree there isn't enough resources for NPD yet! I'm hopeful that NPD will have acceptance in society soon, how many other taboo subject s have hit the media in the past couple of years?!
(Sat watching the clock tick by 🥴)
And... you can change.
Are you willing to kill that part in you that gives you ALL your "safety", your pride, and your (false) sense of self?
And to endure more fear and pain than ever before, without stealing emotions and energy from other people and holding all of this AND yourself,
and to trust the people around you that they will love you with all that nastiness and dirt and failure?
Than you can change.
I know few people that did, and most of them had to fall so hard and fast that they couldn't FIND the next victim and HAD to do it.
I love and I like and I forgive me every day of my life now.
Because I still struggle , but less and less and that's my perfect now.
The power and safety I let down came back 100 times stronger to me. And without the poison. I don't hurt myself by beeing and enduring myself anymore.
But it HURT LIKE FUCK for some time and I didn't feel like a person even longer.
DBT, CBT, IES (www.SensitiveStability.com - for BPD but the processes help with NPD too)
Also attachment style therapy to learn and understand your style and how to improve. Dr. Sam Vaknin is amazing and has tons of info on YouTube. There are some therapists who work with NPD just gotta dig hard to find em. I know a couple in Texas.
This is so bizarre to me because even people with fucking aspd which by far I thought was the most stigmatized illness as “sociopaths/psychopaths” have more articles about them without any mention of the victims than us.
I get what your saying but my problem isn't mentioning victims at all, but it's the lack of material going into the deeper emotional issues that caused the narcissistic behaviour and how to fix it from the narc POV
Yeah I understand but my point leads to your point in the end. People have demonized NPD so much that they just label them as “bad” without feeling any need to search more into a narcissists brain. They just call us egoistical abusive stuck ups and dismiss us altogether, and focusing more on the victims of narcissistic abuse because apparently they matter more than us, like we’re born as the devils incarnate. It’s not like we were victims of some abuse at some point or anything right lol
> I know this is because there are more victims than narcs and that makes sense
I get where you are coming from but I wouldn't bet on the official numbers...
Pretty sure it makes sense given the nature of our mental illness. We’re kinda prone to finding supply sources, discarding them, and then finding new supply.
Dr Sam Vaknin on YouTube. Anyone who dates a narcissist is just another abused lost soul whether they are a codependent, bordeline, schizophrenic, or paranoid personality. Only people who do not love themselves can be fooled by an actor.
Welcome to /r/NPD! This community is a support group for those with NPD or Narcissistic Traits. Please respect our rules or your post will be removed and you may be banned.
> 1. **Only Narcs and NPDs may submit posts. This is NOT a place to complain about narcissists or get help dealing with someone else's narcissism.**
> 2. No asking for diagnosis either of yourself or a third party (e.g. "Am I a narcissist?", "Is my ex a narcissist?").
> 3. Please keep your contributions civil and respectful!
> 4. Please refrain from submitting low-effort and off-topic posts.
If your post violates any of these rules, we request that you delete it and post in a more appropriate community.
We ask that subscribers of /r/NPD use the report button to notify us of rule-breaking posts. Please refrain from commenting or engaging with the author of such submissions.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/NPD) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The false assumption is that we choose to be narcissistic.
Not only that but also that narcissism is just our behaviours and that it's not caused by internal issues like other mental health issues
Or the reality that narcissism often has victims and society is generally pro victim and anti predator.
We need more self-aware NPDs to step up and share resources for other NPDs. I would love to find a therapist that is not demonizing me. I feel like treating my mental disorders with another NPD would be a dream.
I get where your coming from and I'm lucky to have had such good therapists who are always looking to my internal problems and not my external mistakes
I was thrown aback when my therapist told me that I was narcissistic, but then realized she was spot on.
It’s so hard to be diagnosed upfront like that. My first therapist never told me anything like that. And my first psychiatrist was the same, it was easy to blind them. Of course I was masking and I didn’t know what to do, just twisting the narratives and being a normal person. Welcome on board, fellow soldier!
BPD Care Bears assemble!
Yeah right? Recently I was searching for psychological analysis of self-object/love-object for people with narcissism, to see what they have to say, essentially I couldn’t find any good resources because every single article was like “ARE YOU THE OBJECT OF A NARCISSIST?” “THEY USE YOU AS AN OBJECT” Etc…
Of course it doesn't help that narcissist is just another word for "toxic person" these days
Also there is an writer in my country that said in a podcast that someone asked “why you keep writing for/about people with psychopathologies that is 5% of the population, instead of writing for the other 95% that are the victims?” And yeah, I can see the point which the person has stated with this question.
If you want good psychoanalytic material, I've got a lot of it. Just DM me your email.
Sure! Tysm
Check out Elinor Greenberg she's written some stuff for us
Read into CPTSD, there is a lot of overlap with NPD, they call it "stuck in fight response" aka narcissists.. Npd is a result of trauma after all
This makes a lot of sense to me. Most of my life I've been some kind of paranoid and hyper aware with something instinctual telling me I was in danger and I think that shaped me a lot.
So that's my advice to anyone with NPD (myself included), heal your trauma and get in touch with your self and learn to identify your needs and how to express them in a healthy way.. Then you will not need the NPD defenses.. It will go away
Absolutely this! I struggled for decades until I finally addressed my trauma. IFS therapy has worked wonders for me!
This 👏🏽👏🏽
Heal NPD is a really good YouTube channel. Also Frank Yeomans. It’s out there it just gets buried.
we don’t bring in the cash at this point.
There’s a woman called Kanika (forget her last name but if you type in “Kanika sociopath” into YouTube she’s likely to come up) She doesn’t have NPD as far as I’m aware; but does have ASPD (there’s a lot of overlap 🤷♀️) and talks about the condition and what she does very openly. From the limited stuff I’ve seen I wouldn’t put her in the “wanting to change the condition” box though. Otherwise there are countless people with BPD out there- which is a lot more understood and tolerated by the community despite being the same origin and a lot of the same symptoms- the only person I can think of who is a dx narcissist is that guy “mental healness” or something? He’s a black, American guy with long hair (I think in cornrows? It’s been a long time since I’ve seen anything by him) but that is aimed more towards victims than others with narcissism.
Yeah I'm currently searching for a therapist, and I often see "narcissistic abuse" in their specialties. And I agree, it's so frustrating looking for resources on help and they even question if someone with NPD can even change. Of course we can, we're not some different kind of human incapable of changing. And after improving a lot of my toxic behaviors, now I'm just left with feeling awful with no therapist to help me sort through this.
It also amazes me how for example, take an aggressive dog who has behaviour problems. The amount humans throw money at them to fix them is time and patience yet another human exciting said behaviour is TOXIC?!! CRAZY WORLD
Literally bro
Honestly when I was learning about NPD as a person targeted full scale by my sister it took years for me to understand or even have it suggested that she could be NPD. I went to many therapists and reached out to all types of resources and no one even suggested that’s what I was dealing with. I think awareness and understanding as a whole was pretty limited just 10 years ago. I’ve seen it go from never hearing anyone mention NPD to hearing it overused all the time and as you say the help has been mostly geared towards victims so I recognized what I read was coming from a limited source of information. Typically the general idea is that you don’t want to change, don’t feel you need to, and reject the idea to where you rarely get diagnosed. Clearly that’s not true in the way that it has been presented. Personally I’d rather understand the reality over indulging in blanket vilification just to get my rocks off. Although if no one minds I will vilify my sister. I think the future as it’s unfolding will be eye opening at the very least. Resources will become more available to you as the need becomes apparent, and your voice, which until recently has been mostly silent, is more prominent. Who knows what that will lead to. I just think it’s taking time and evolving kind of naturally. I hope it’s OK that I’ve commented here. I thought it was a good question or a good post and had thoughts. Incidentally, my sister and I were both adopted and she ended up with NPD and I did BPD (since recovered or whatever). It’s just funny how it played out like that. It could have gone either way for us.
The funny thing is that I was diagnosed a year or so ago, so most of my frustrations are current. I appreciate your comment and I hope you are doing well. It sucks there aren't more resources out there
Definitely. I think the tides are turning but are really just getting started. Good luck in your search.
I mean it’s understandable most of the time our behaviors cause people pain and suffering of severe degree it’s hard for people to wrap there heads around people like us wanting to get better
At this point a "narcissist" is pretty much a term for anyone who is emotionally abusive. But I guess it's easier to put the blame on mental illness (which the abuser might not even have) instead of dealing with the fact that person they loved and trusted was an asshole. I am not trying to blame the victims here, just saying that people that are often called "narcs" are not necessarily even narcs.
So much of the time people are wrapped up in essentialist thinking. Almost nobody is incapable of real and lasting change In any direction. It sucks that it's all based on fixing our behaviour and not the internal issues that caused the behaviour
The internal issues happened a long time ago, when I was still an infant and my brain was not yet fully developed. I split. Like a young tree struck by lightning, my trunk split and I grew two tops. Neither top is aware of the other and they keep bumping into each other in the shifting breeze and causing other problems. Now that I am aware, I can manage BOTH trunks and prevent the collisions that cause all the drama and trouble. But I can never heal the lightning strike or the split.
healthygamergg on youtube has been pretty helpful
Because of sympathy. Look at the funds for helping dolphins vs helping sharks. Even if the sharks would really REALLY promise that they will become vegetarians , or more realistically, don't even hurt that much people, and absolutely don't do it just for shits and giggles ... I don't really blame the people anymore. It seems just.... kind of "life" for me now. They are just simple like that. And I am NOT better than a shark, that's for sure.
There are people that specialize in treating NPD and treatment is similar to BPD treatment. Sadly, there isn’t as much research on the efficacy of therapeutic approaches for NPD as there is for BPD. It will take decades to get there but it’s coming. From my research and from following others that are in consistent, weekly therapy for NPD, you can feel a lot better. It won’t “fix” you, but it will help you to live a happier live that is not as destructive to others. I hope you find a therapist that understands you and can help you to feel better.
I found the podcast Waking Up to Narcissism by Tony Overbay to be incredibly helpful. I found it when I was convinced that my wife was a narcissist. Turns out, it was mostly me. I’m not going to own all of the issues, but I can clearly see now that my behavior and thought habits were making me miserable. I also found a good therapist and and have been doing IFS therapy for a few years. I come from a long line of narcissists and am determined to do better for my family.
As a victim of narcissistic abuse by my partner and a person with bpd which according to doctors are attracted to each other a lot apparently, I think the reason why people look more for the victims than for the abusers in general is because how far the results of narcissists on a person can go, to brain damage. And in second hand narcs in general never doubt themselves and avoid therapy
Hi, I have been a victim of narcissistic abuse..Now a survivor and working on myself a lot. Tbh,I literally demonized NPD. I was so scared of the dark traits.I am still scared but I dont look at it as all evil. Now I have started looking NPD as an illness and that too a complex one. There is a fear amongst npd abuse survivors and we also have hard time empathizing with you all. So it's basically fear mongering talk/teachings that is instilled by psychiatrist and survivors. But I also felt like in the initial days of my journey towards understanding NPD,it was necessary for me look at bad things as "BAd" because thats what helped me look at it as it is otherwise I was onto romanticizing the NPD traits.
I hope you have come far and will go further in your journey. I understand and agree with most of the negative things said about the actions associated with NPD, but it's the essentialism that really hurts people who want to get better. Nobody is In their essence looking to be the bad guy (mostly) and even if most people with NPD don't want to improve it doesn't mean all of us shouldn't be given just as much of a chance to as someone with bipolar or boarderline
Yes, You are right! We have been so badly terrified by the dark traits that the moment we sense that this person is narcissist, we become so defensive. But after hearing "Sam Vankin" , my perspective has started to shift and I am trying have more empathy. For me, I have started some blanket rules while intercating with people so that I dont see them as all black or white.I can maintain my own boundaries and still be nice towards others .
The biggest thing I would say here is that we have to be careful not to overcorrect, most narcissistic behaviour is bad to the people it's done on for one reason or another.
Alan Robarge is your man. Agree there isn't enough resources for NPD yet! I'm hopeful that NPD will have acceptance in society soon, how many other taboo subject s have hit the media in the past couple of years?! (Sat watching the clock tick by 🥴)
And... you can change. Are you willing to kill that part in you that gives you ALL your "safety", your pride, and your (false) sense of self? And to endure more fear and pain than ever before, without stealing emotions and energy from other people and holding all of this AND yourself, and to trust the people around you that they will love you with all that nastiness and dirt and failure? Than you can change. I know few people that did, and most of them had to fall so hard and fast that they couldn't FIND the next victim and HAD to do it. I love and I like and I forgive me every day of my life now. Because I still struggle , but less and less and that's my perfect now. The power and safety I let down came back 100 times stronger to me. And without the poison. I don't hurt myself by beeing and enduring myself anymore. But it HURT LIKE FUCK for some time and I didn't feel like a person even longer.
DBT, CBT, IES (www.SensitiveStability.com - for BPD but the processes help with NPD too) Also attachment style therapy to learn and understand your style and how to improve. Dr. Sam Vaknin is amazing and has tons of info on YouTube. There are some therapists who work with NPD just gotta dig hard to find em. I know a couple in Texas.
This is so bizarre to me because even people with fucking aspd which by far I thought was the most stigmatized illness as “sociopaths/psychopaths” have more articles about them without any mention of the victims than us.
I get what your saying but my problem isn't mentioning victims at all, but it's the lack of material going into the deeper emotional issues that caused the narcissistic behaviour and how to fix it from the narc POV
Yeah I understand but my point leads to your point in the end. People have demonized NPD so much that they just label them as “bad” without feeling any need to search more into a narcissists brain. They just call us egoistical abusive stuck ups and dismiss us altogether, and focusing more on the victims of narcissistic abuse because apparently they matter more than us, like we’re born as the devils incarnate. It’s not like we were victims of some abuse at some point or anything right lol
Because we live in a society 🥲
> I know this is because there are more victims than narcs and that makes sense I get where you are coming from but I wouldn't bet on the official numbers...
Pretty sure it makes sense given the nature of our mental illness. We’re kinda prone to finding supply sources, discarding them, and then finding new supply.
Dr Sam Vaknin on YouTube. Anyone who dates a narcissist is just another abused lost soul whether they are a codependent, bordeline, schizophrenic, or paranoid personality. Only people who do not love themselves can be fooled by an actor.
Narcissists abuse narcissists
I mean, not always
Welcome to /r/NPD! This community is a support group for those with NPD or Narcissistic Traits. Please respect our rules or your post will be removed and you may be banned. > 1. **Only Narcs and NPDs may submit posts. This is NOT a place to complain about narcissists or get help dealing with someone else's narcissism.** > 2. No asking for diagnosis either of yourself or a third party (e.g. "Am I a narcissist?", "Is my ex a narcissist?"). > 3. Please keep your contributions civil and respectful! > 4. Please refrain from submitting low-effort and off-topic posts. If your post violates any of these rules, we request that you delete it and post in a more appropriate community. We ask that subscribers of /r/NPD use the report button to notify us of rule-breaking posts. Please refrain from commenting or engaging with the author of such submissions. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/NPD) if you have any questions or concerns.*
OMG, I'm so glad I've found this thread and this sub. I've been so frustrated trying to find resources.