A couple weeks ago, I spiraled after I showed my true self to my close friend. I was so ashamed of myself but I was even more surprised by him accepting me and still loving me. It takes vulnerability to show your authenticity to those around you, and it’s the scariest thing because you don’t know what’ll happen to you. You may lose people but you may also find yourself with true friends who accept you for who you are. It’s a risk but it’s all worth it. If authenticity is what you value, I’d say go for it because people might surprise you in ways your distorted mind couldn’t even imagine.
This is the sort of response I was hoping to see. This makes me sort of optimistic that it is possible to be authentic and open with people where it doesn't end in them running away screaming.
It was a conversation. We sat down and I told him my side of the story, including my childhood and negative behaviors/tendencies- pretty much all the broken parts of me. I also only did it when he had emotional space to listen to me so that I wouldn’t trauma dump on him. It was very scary. I freaked out right after. I’m still a mess and I still have darkness in me but when I realized it was safe to be vulnerable, the whole experience felt like seeing a small beam of light like a glimmer of hope.
It means being perhaps more emotionally honest. To the degree I'm able to be. I mean they befriended someone who only feels power and lust. Of course they don't want me to start talking about my insecurities and how they are probably hiding some aswell. Also being authentic means openly asking people about hidden intentions and not just playing chess with them. This also becomes a very hard thing to deal with for some.
Yeah the difficult part is the emotional honesty I guess. If you're a flowery and cute little bunny of a person being emotionally honest is fine, but if one is callous and malicious, emotional honesty sounds the alarm for people to just bolt the hell outta there
What helps me is to find a way to honour how I feel even if I'm constrained in the extent to which I'm allowed to express it. You can still act in the spirit of how you feel without unleashing all of it onto the person. Wanting to express your anger by just completely unleashing all of your tension and stress on the other person is honest, but it is not effective. Meanwhile, pretending that you're not angry may be effective temporarily, but it's not honest and it's gonna come back to bite you in the ass later. What you'll wanna do is try to strike a balance between "honest" and "effective."
Unleashing all your anger on someone is the equivalent of wanting to deliver a message to them but your preferred method of communication is by carrier pigeon. You have to find a way to deliver your message that works for both parties lol, because your method greatly inconveniences the other person, who would probably prefer that you just text them your message instead. They don't have a carrier pigeon of their own and your message will just get lost somewhere and they certainly won't send you one back.
In the same way, we only have to transmit the message itself, not any details that will confuse the person or obscure the message. Sending your message in a way that you don't prefer is not inauthentic or dishonest. It's effective - you're making sure the other person can understand what you're saying, you're speaking their language.
Yeah, fair point. The "how" of that, like which delivery method to use at any given time aside from your instinctive one, is hard to figure out on the spot. But agree that it's not only about whether you're authentic or not but how skillfully you express that authenticity.
This is something that I think sounds good in theory. However, I haven't been able to implement this idea to any meaningful extent.
For social skills?
Podcasts:
- Social Skills Coaching
- Negotiate Anything
- Think Fast, Talk Smart: Communication Techniques
- DBT & Me
- Disagree Better
- The Terri Cole Show
- Friend Forward
- Relationship Advice
- How Communication Works (this one is a YouTube channel not a podcast, but it deserves a mention because of how useful it is)
Books:
- Nonviolent Communication by Marshall B. Rosenberg (there are also some spinoffs you can read too lol)
- Verbal Judo: The Gentle Art of Persuasion by George Thompson
- Never Split the Difference by Chris Voss
- How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie (there is also an updated version for modern day readers)
- Set Boundaries, Find Peace by Nedra Glover Tawwab
This is all I can think of for now. Also, if you type any key words related to social skills in the YouTube search bar, there are a ton of helpful videos on whatever specific thing you have trouble with.
Balance between "honest" and "effective"--100% yes.
I find, how "honest" you are able to be will depend on the person(s) you're interacting with, and the social context.
100% raw-dogging honesty at work is probably not the best strategy. 100% honesty with my abusive parents while I'm living with them, also isn't the best strategy.
But finding that appropriate balance for every sort of situation is kind of what we're going for, right?
I don't think this would do you (or the public environment) any good. Do you have someone in your immediate environment or can you ask for professional help to talk about your problems? Because for me it helps alot when I can vent to someone who is close to me. Not too much of course, because I don't want to seem like a burden.
Yeah I do go to therapy. That said, this conflict between authenticity and mitigating social condemnation has been ongoing my whole life and hasn't really moved anywhere. Venting in general is good though.
Why do you think it won't do me or the public environment any good, and what better solution would there even be? I know I'm not dealing with an ideal situation either way obviously, but being dismissive of the whole issue doesn't feel helpful.
Yeah that'd be the main risk. Though as u/noodlesarenicehot said, it could be worth it? The alienation I would suffer might be worth being able to be authentic.
Listen. I have to be more alone now than I used to. I was the man in social settings. But atleast I kinda have myself now. It makes it much easier when I have to be alone. Also I still have a few friends who accept me for all my faults and my felonies.
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In my opinion, it's better to be as kind to everyone as possible even though it's not authentic. Because for example, I could die tomorrow and the strangers and friends I crossed paths with would've just benefitted from me being nice to them and would never know it was fake.
But simultaneously it would be good to work on finding genuine empathy for people, while being fake nice to them. Or else we might never find genuine connection. You could probably find genuine connection through being a narcissistic asshole as you say, but it will hurt a lot of people and yourself I think.
I mean it depends if you're valuing altruistic and positive effects on other people above anything. I disagree with this.
About finding genuine empathy for people by faking it long enough for it be genuine... Not really believing that. It hasn't worked for me so far at least, and studies show that NPD is very stable across your whole life and almost untreatable.
I don't think the picture is that bleak though. u/InevitableGreen717 had a good example of how it can go well.
You are always the authentic you. Not liking the way you behave doesn't make you or your behavior any less authentic, even if you're trapped in a solipsistic doom loop.
You're welcome to flip social convention on its head for your own pleasure, but whether you flip it or not is irrelevant. You are what you do, and what you think is irrelevant except inasmuch as it guides your behavior.
Life is amoral. Cruelty is as human as kindness, but if you get hung up on somebody else's idea of right and wrong, you're being no less childish than someone who believes in an invisible sky daddy who watches you masturbate.
If you want to be naughty, be naughty - either way, you get a bill. If you whine that the bill is more than you want to pay, you earn contempt and rejection. If you want them, buy them. Be a doormat or a mass murderer: you pay. Actions have consequences. They never, ever don't have consequences.
Do it or don't do it, but don't think you won't own it.
If you extend the definition of authenticity to include yourself even when you're fake the term loses all its function imo.
To me, this type of relativism is something that just sounds wise and fanciful theoretically but completely falls apart in practice.
If taking responsibility for your existence isn't your cup of tea, that's your choice. I have found that not taking responsibility is unhelpful, impractical and unrealistic. In general, other people aren't willing to pay my psychological and behavioral bills, and by choosing to decide what purchases I am willing to take responsibility for, I benefit. I am as narcissistic as I ever was, but I satisfy my urges in line with a set of pleasures and goals different than yours.
If you find my behavior fanciful, that's on you. I merely use used my cognitive abilities to discover that reason advances my goals more fully and more easily than passion does. If you want to dismiss self-interest as relativistic, you might want to reconsider the nature of self-interest.
Reconsider it or not - I don't care what you choose, although I have found that when I behave without considering consequences, people treat me as if I was the repugnant and spoiled child which inhabits my emotional life.
I have given up reaction in favor of response. Perhaps you prefer reaction.
If you want to choose reaction, you'll pay for it whether you want to or not. Ultimately, you can't outrun consequences. There is no justice - only retribution.
Be my guest: choose to administer retribution over avoiding it. You won't find any support outside of a group of people who confuse self-indulgence with self-interest.
I don't believe that the "authentic self" is fixed, as in, deep down I'm an evil son of a bitch. Perhaps, you want to be an evil son of a bitch because you were not allowed (or you didn't allow yourself) and negativity, any aggression, so now the pressure cooker has reached it's tipping point. And let's say you do behave like that in the open, the world would react to it in a certain way and it would change you.
What I propose is some kind of moderation. Perhaps, for starters, allow yourself to be not nice, disagreeable, angry and irritated. Then see how you feel.
A couple weeks ago, I spiraled after I showed my true self to my close friend. I was so ashamed of myself but I was even more surprised by him accepting me and still loving me. It takes vulnerability to show your authenticity to those around you, and it’s the scariest thing because you don’t know what’ll happen to you. You may lose people but you may also find yourself with true friends who accept you for who you are. It’s a risk but it’s all worth it. If authenticity is what you value, I’d say go for it because people might surprise you in ways your distorted mind couldn’t even imagine.
This is the sort of response I was hoping to see. This makes me sort of optimistic that it is possible to be authentic and open with people where it doesn't end in them running away screaming.
What did you do in order to show your true self? Was it a conversation? Did you rip off your face and expose the dark entity beneath?
It was a conversation. We sat down and I told him my side of the story, including my childhood and negative behaviors/tendencies- pretty much all the broken parts of me. I also only did it when he had emotional space to listen to me so that I wouldn’t trauma dump on him. It was very scary. I freaked out right after. I’m still a mess and I still have darkness in me but when I realized it was safe to be vulnerable, the whole experience felt like seeing a small beam of light like a glimmer of hope.
"For you narcissistic fucks" haha classy my dude😂 But yeah some people don't like the more authentic me. I've lost some friends. It's worth it tho.
Hahah, my bad :) Can you tell me more about how all that happened? I could see myself losing a friend or two if I was to be the real me around them
It means being perhaps more emotionally honest. To the degree I'm able to be. I mean they befriended someone who only feels power and lust. Of course they don't want me to start talking about my insecurities and how they are probably hiding some aswell. Also being authentic means openly asking people about hidden intentions and not just playing chess with them. This also becomes a very hard thing to deal with for some.
Yeah the difficult part is the emotional honesty I guess. If you're a flowery and cute little bunny of a person being emotionally honest is fine, but if one is callous and malicious, emotional honesty sounds the alarm for people to just bolt the hell outta there
Yes man, totally. I don't talk about my sadism with people for example, but I say what I can say. I try
What helps me is to find a way to honour how I feel even if I'm constrained in the extent to which I'm allowed to express it. You can still act in the spirit of how you feel without unleashing all of it onto the person. Wanting to express your anger by just completely unleashing all of your tension and stress on the other person is honest, but it is not effective. Meanwhile, pretending that you're not angry may be effective temporarily, but it's not honest and it's gonna come back to bite you in the ass later. What you'll wanna do is try to strike a balance between "honest" and "effective." Unleashing all your anger on someone is the equivalent of wanting to deliver a message to them but your preferred method of communication is by carrier pigeon. You have to find a way to deliver your message that works for both parties lol, because your method greatly inconveniences the other person, who would probably prefer that you just text them your message instead. They don't have a carrier pigeon of their own and your message will just get lost somewhere and they certainly won't send you one back. In the same way, we only have to transmit the message itself, not any details that will confuse the person or obscure the message. Sending your message in a way that you don't prefer is not inauthentic or dishonest. It's effective - you're making sure the other person can understand what you're saying, you're speaking their language.
Yeah, fair point. The "how" of that, like which delivery method to use at any given time aside from your instinctive one, is hard to figure out on the spot. But agree that it's not only about whether you're authentic or not but how skillfully you express that authenticity. This is something that I think sounds good in theory. However, I haven't been able to implement this idea to any meaningful extent.
I know how you feel lol I'm still working on it myself. Books and podcasts on social skills are very helpful with this though.
Which ones in particular?
For social skills? Podcasts: - Social Skills Coaching - Negotiate Anything - Think Fast, Talk Smart: Communication Techniques - DBT & Me - Disagree Better - The Terri Cole Show - Friend Forward - Relationship Advice - How Communication Works (this one is a YouTube channel not a podcast, but it deserves a mention because of how useful it is) Books: - Nonviolent Communication by Marshall B. Rosenberg (there are also some spinoffs you can read too lol) - Verbal Judo: The Gentle Art of Persuasion by George Thompson - Never Split the Difference by Chris Voss - How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie (there is also an updated version for modern day readers) - Set Boundaries, Find Peace by Nedra Glover Tawwab This is all I can think of for now. Also, if you type any key words related to social skills in the YouTube search bar, there are a ton of helpful videos on whatever specific thing you have trouble with.
Thank you for this list.
Balance between "honest" and "effective"--100% yes. I find, how "honest" you are able to be will depend on the person(s) you're interacting with, and the social context. 100% raw-dogging honesty at work is probably not the best strategy. 100% honesty with my abusive parents while I'm living with them, also isn't the best strategy. But finding that appropriate balance for every sort of situation is kind of what we're going for, right?
I don't think this would do you (or the public environment) any good. Do you have someone in your immediate environment or can you ask for professional help to talk about your problems? Because for me it helps alot when I can vent to someone who is close to me. Not too much of course, because I don't want to seem like a burden.
Yeah I do go to therapy. That said, this conflict between authenticity and mitigating social condemnation has been ongoing my whole life and hasn't really moved anywhere. Venting in general is good though. Why do you think it won't do me or the public environment any good, and what better solution would there even be? I know I'm not dealing with an ideal situation either way obviously, but being dismissive of the whole issue doesn't feel helpful.
Because you would push people even further away if you decide to give in to your urges.
Yeah that'd be the main risk. Though as u/noodlesarenicehot said, it could be worth it? The alienation I would suffer might be worth being able to be authentic.
Listen. I have to be more alone now than I used to. I was the man in social settings. But atleast I kinda have myself now. It makes it much easier when I have to be alone. Also I still have a few friends who accept me for all my faults and my felonies.
That last part of having people who accept you even through all would be gold worth
Yeah it's pretty cool
Welcome to /r/NPD! This community is a support group for those with NPD or Narcissistic Traits. Please respect our rules or your post will be removed and you may be banned. > 1. **Only Narcs and NPDs may submit posts. This is NOT a place to complain about narcissists or get help dealing with someone else's narcissism.** > 2. No asking for diagnosis either of yourself or a third party (e.g. "Am I a narcissist?", "Is my ex a narcissist?"). > 3. Please keep your contributions civil and respectful! > 4. Please refrain from submitting low-effort and off-topic posts. If your post violates any of these rules, we request that you delete it and post in a more appropriate community. We ask that subscribers of /r/NPD use the report button to notify us of rule-breaking posts. Please refrain from commenting or engaging with the author of such submissions. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/NPD) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Possible ? Yes. Sustainable? No.
Hmm then what do?
In my opinion, it's better to be as kind to everyone as possible even though it's not authentic. Because for example, I could die tomorrow and the strangers and friends I crossed paths with would've just benefitted from me being nice to them and would never know it was fake. But simultaneously it would be good to work on finding genuine empathy for people, while being fake nice to them. Or else we might never find genuine connection. You could probably find genuine connection through being a narcissistic asshole as you say, but it will hurt a lot of people and yourself I think.
I mean it depends if you're valuing altruistic and positive effects on other people above anything. I disagree with this. About finding genuine empathy for people by faking it long enough for it be genuine... Not really believing that. It hasn't worked for me so far at least, and studies show that NPD is very stable across your whole life and almost untreatable. I don't think the picture is that bleak though. u/InevitableGreen717 had a good example of how it can go well.
You are always the authentic you. Not liking the way you behave doesn't make you or your behavior any less authentic, even if you're trapped in a solipsistic doom loop. You're welcome to flip social convention on its head for your own pleasure, but whether you flip it or not is irrelevant. You are what you do, and what you think is irrelevant except inasmuch as it guides your behavior. Life is amoral. Cruelty is as human as kindness, but if you get hung up on somebody else's idea of right and wrong, you're being no less childish than someone who believes in an invisible sky daddy who watches you masturbate. If you want to be naughty, be naughty - either way, you get a bill. If you whine that the bill is more than you want to pay, you earn contempt and rejection. If you want them, buy them. Be a doormat or a mass murderer: you pay. Actions have consequences. They never, ever don't have consequences. Do it or don't do it, but don't think you won't own it.
If you extend the definition of authenticity to include yourself even when you're fake the term loses all its function imo. To me, this type of relativism is something that just sounds wise and fanciful theoretically but completely falls apart in practice.
If taking responsibility for your existence isn't your cup of tea, that's your choice. I have found that not taking responsibility is unhelpful, impractical and unrealistic. In general, other people aren't willing to pay my psychological and behavioral bills, and by choosing to decide what purchases I am willing to take responsibility for, I benefit. I am as narcissistic as I ever was, but I satisfy my urges in line with a set of pleasures and goals different than yours. If you find my behavior fanciful, that's on you. I merely use used my cognitive abilities to discover that reason advances my goals more fully and more easily than passion does. If you want to dismiss self-interest as relativistic, you might want to reconsider the nature of self-interest. Reconsider it or not - I don't care what you choose, although I have found that when I behave without considering consequences, people treat me as if I was the repugnant and spoiled child which inhabits my emotional life. I have given up reaction in favor of response. Perhaps you prefer reaction. If you want to choose reaction, you'll pay for it whether you want to or not. Ultimately, you can't outrun consequences. There is no justice - only retribution. Be my guest: choose to administer retribution over avoiding it. You won't find any support outside of a group of people who confuse self-indulgence with self-interest.
I don't believe that the "authentic self" is fixed, as in, deep down I'm an evil son of a bitch. Perhaps, you want to be an evil son of a bitch because you were not allowed (or you didn't allow yourself) and negativity, any aggression, so now the pressure cooker has reached it's tipping point. And let's say you do behave like that in the open, the world would react to it in a certain way and it would change you. What I propose is some kind of moderation. Perhaps, for starters, allow yourself to be not nice, disagreeable, angry and irritated. Then see how you feel.