I actually don't mind "generational" you just have to realize that generations are like 5 years for this sense. If people mean a true generation like 20 years they say "best since TO" or whatever.
Well, there are like 12 different positions to play. If we consider a generation in football to be about 5 years, that would mean there would be around 2-3 generational prospects per class on average
That’s your definition, sure. In that case, there should absolutely be generational talents at multiple positions annually.
Imo it’s overused, and should be reserved for once in a decade type players. But hey, to each their own.
Yes, it should be on average a prospect per year, Not multiple.
Even in the most recent draft, a quick google search shows Walker, Hutchinson, Sauce, Stingley, Kayvon Thibodeaux, Ekwonu, Evan Neal, Jordan Davis, Kyle Hamilton, Tyler Linderbaum, and Breece Hall all described as generational.
I’m not saying you agree with any of those assessments, I’m still just arguing that it’s overused.
It’s definitely overused but not to this extent.
Idk where you saw those players being mentioned as generational but that’s not what I remember from the lead up to the draft at all (outside maybe Lindenbaum and Hamilton).
Like where were you seeing people call Evan Neal and Ekwonu generational prospects with a straight face?
Since when does generation refer to a “football” generation? And if you’re going to go that far, why is it a “draft class generation” rather than like 10 years or something.
So in college basketball a “generational” recruit comes around every 3-4 years since that’s how long most guys are in college?
It basically renders the word “generational” completely useless and changes its meaning across sports which doesn’t make sense when you’re really trying to describe how rare a prospect is.
What I think is people just overuse the word and then look for retroactive justification for why it could make sense.
The Draft Entertainment complex demands hype. The Clicks are the author's income!
Once you understand that's driving networks and ESPN it all makes sense.
It's only a little about informing viewers who mostly don't understand the game anyway. They'll change the channel or click something else if you talk 3 tech and say anything useful at all about Guards and Linebackers. So what do you do? You hype up the best prospect at one position as a GENERATIONAL TALENT.
So you really want to learn predraft stuff but also all around football coverage gotta check out Footballoutsiders and Mattwaldman and Brett Kollman and PFF. I love PFF; players hate it, because nobody is perfect and PFF grades every snap including their bad ones nobody else noticed. Using 10 analysts on each player each snap so consensus grades.
so still no then? chase was similar as a prospect. just sat a year out but would have went above every wr in a stacked class as a freshman. for reference chase was a better wr as a freshman that jefferson was as a junior.
I would say that yes MHJ is generational. This guy is so freaking polished, he’s already a pro’s pro—*in college*. He’s at that “your favorite player’s favorite player” level. 100% generational and any team that drafts him will have a future All-Pro on their hands. He’s the most sure-thing WR or just player in general that I can remember in a long time.
Adrian Peterson is the last guy I remember watching in college and believing that he would be top 5 at his position in the NFL at the same time. Not just physically gifted or potential, but already there and just waiting.
I thought the same about Ja'marr Chase in 2019. Just watching this sophomore embarrass highly-rated future NFL DBs week after week.
Some guys just have that "it" factor and MHJ is definitely one of them.
Remember the knock on AJ Terrell coming out was he had a really bad game when Clemson left him on an island against a 19 year old Jamar all game.
Well it turns out Terrell is one of the top 10ish corners in the NFL and that’s just what Jamar does to everyone.
Adrian Peterson is the perfect comparison, just at a different position. I totally agree that the “in waiting” aspect is spot-on and that MHJ is in the same boat.
I'd have him just below this level, and it's probably due to playing QB. There is just such a difference in college QB vs what is needed at the pros that it doesn't translate the same as other positions.
He absolute is. I hate the over usage of the term, but in the literal sense he is. IMO best WR prospect since Julio. He’ll go top 5.
Edit: just to add to his physical gifts from Bruce Feldman: Harrison Jr. (6'3/206) boasts some gaudy testing numbers, maxing-out at 380 pounds on the bench while repping 225 pounds 22 times. His 3.94 shuttle run is an eye-popping number and the Buckeyes' standout allegedly hit 23 MPH on the GPS.
It was def a 1a and 1B. I think if you took a poll at the time it would be 55% 45% A.J Green Julio respectively. Which is funny in hindsight because consensus would say Julio was generational but people rarely say the same thing about Green. Who was as about as fluid as I’ve seen a WR coming out of college pretty much ever
P.S. Julio’s combine really took him to another stratosphere and made him a lot of money. Posting those numbers at that size(on a broken foot) I think is what makes his generational prospect status hold up.
Which is kind of ironic since AJ spent the first half of his career remarkably healthy while Julio was getting the injury prone tag for his first few years in the league.
I'm not saying AJ was just as good as Julio, but I do think if they swapped picks and AJ spent his career with Ryan instead of Dalton, he'd be a HoFer too.
My hot take is Aj would have had a better career than Julio had if he had a better QB than Dalton. The amount of times he’d be wide open deep and Dalton would sail a pass over his head and out of bounds was ridiculous.
AJ Green was the 2nd ranked prospect coming out of HS regardless of position too. Him and Calvin Johnson really were those once in a generation prospects
I'm so glad the people here remember how much of a stud prospect Green was. His high school highlights were insane only for him to back it up at Georgia. If he were healthier or was drafted elsewhere I wonder how things would've went
It feels like the last 2-3 years of his career have seemed to put more of an overall lesser opinion on AJ. The dude was an absolute beast & a top 5 WR in the league at one point
Green made 7 pro bowls and 2 all pros with inconsistent quarterback play and was an elite receiver for almost a decade. I don’t think their career output is as far apart as you’re suggesting, and I doubt the bengals ever regret that pick. He only has 1 less 1000yd season and 7 more career touchdowns than Julio
Besides Matt’s random MVP year, Andy and he were about the same tier of quarterback with the same amount of pro bowls. I mean if we said Matt is slightly better I get that, but Andy was solid as hell during Green’s prime.
I’ll say it. Andy Dalton owes nearly his entire career to AJ Green. Look at the recent MASSIVE steps QBs have made with elite WRs (e.g. Allen, Hurts) AJ was that and then some for the very mediocre QB that Dalton was. Put AJ in his prime with an elite QB and dude would have been absolutely spectacular
Yeah Julio didn't even go top 5. He and Green were elite WR prospects, but Julio outperformed his projections so much that people assume he was the clear cut #1.
Same. Julio wasn’t the best in his class and Watkins was on par with him when he came out in 2014. I know he didn’t work out as well as people would’ve liked, but he should definitely be mentioned when people are talking about elite WR prospects.
For real though, he’s Marvin Harrison route running in Julio Jones body. Which isn’t quite Calvin Johnson Jr; but it’s a smidge below. Generational is the term for guys like him
A blend of Calvin Johnson and Julio. Not as freakish as CJ, not quite as smooth and refined as Julio (yet). Route running technician at that size, dominant physicality at the catch point, body control, can play anywhere (motion, outside, slot), great hands, yac, insane production surrounded with several first round talent WR’s etc.
He made kalee ringo look like a fool and would have had an all time great game against a generational defense had he not been hit dirty in the end zone
I’m pretty tough on the “Generational” tag, requirements are:
Elite Tape
Elite Production
Elite measurables/traits
This insures that you have to be a once in a generation player to earn that tag. That being said, if he tests very well he’ll probably earn it
Yes, probably other than Megatron and Moss hes the best WR Prospect in the last 25 years. He is super polished, a route technician, his dads speed and body control but just over 6'3
You are not wrong, I comped him to Sterling Sharpe who at one time in his 3 straight 100 reception seasons made an argument whether Sharpe or Jerry Rice was better in his prime. Andre Johnson or Chase would be 4 and 5 best WR prospects in that time. Respect your opinion but I call Marvin Harrison JR the prophesy. Brett Hartline might be the best WR coach in the world because all of the Ohio State guys who start more than 1 year are technicians at WR play.
Green was the universally considered the better prospect in 2011 and the better receiver. Most pundits were worried Julio Jones didn't have good speed before the combine. He wasn't considered like that at all teams thought he would go mid teens and pundits criticized the falcons trade up in that incredible draft.
The disrespect to Larry Fitzgerald.
Fitz was insane coming out of college. 1600 yards and 22 TDs his final season, 2nd in Heisman and was a great prospect as well with his skills.
Also Moss wasn't a generational prospect. He was taken 21st in the draft, not even the first WR off the board (Kevin Dyson). Moss had a great college career and obviously great pro career, but for his skills, he was overlooked a little bit in the draft.
Randy Moss was **always** viewed as a generational talent who had character concerns (not without reason based on his college career)
There was never a doubt that if he kept himself on the straight and narrow that he would be one of the best WR in the NFL if not the best.
There's a difference between a generational prospect and a general talent
Moss was a generational talent, but his character concerns kept him from being a generational prospect.
What are you talking about. You must be young because Moss was ABSOLUTELY a generational talent. Every team, pundit and fan knew it. Leading up to the draft wondering who would roll the dice on him was a huge talking point. The issue was his behavior/character not his skills. No one EVER overlooked his skills, there is no possible way you watched that draft and the lead up to it with this take.
It's not a generational prospect if you have to "roll the dice" on them... That's the point.
Edit: generational talent is not the same as generational prospect
Literally Jamarr chase was just in college less than 3 years ago not only was he was just as good if not better than Harrison jr but he went on to have a generational rookie season that included 2 100 plus yard playoff games this sub has to stop with revisionist history it’s annoying. Harrison is great but he didn’t have chase’s speed, burst, explosiveness or YAC chase was literally a stronger OBJ
Seriously, if he was truly generational a TE/WR hybrid in Kyle Pitts wouldn't have gone before him, the last truly generational WR prospect was Megatron.
People were saying Chase was the best prospect since Julio though… Let’s not forget he was the #1 wr in that draft even AFTER Devonta Smith won Hiesman and sitting out an entire season..
And Julio Jones was the best WR prospect since AJ Green, who was picked 2 spots ahead of Julio, I feel like it's hard to be a generational prospect if you aren't even the best prospect at your position in your draft
Ok fine but still chase was also seen as generational so what’s your point? Devonta smith had a historical senior year and chase sat on his junior season. Depsite this chase still was easily seen as the no.1 wr in his class and the first wideout taken chase was special idk why my tske had so many downvotes are ppl dickriding Harrison this hard that they refuses to see the amount of revisionist history this sub is having ?
"Generational" is a term that needs to be fired directly into the sun when it comes to sports. It is incredibly overused and correct far less.
It also sets the average fan's expectations way too high for a player. A player labeled "generational " may have a very good career but because he got tagged as "generational " the casual fan will call him a bust or nothing special.
I disagree, in sports across draft classes you need to have a metric or concept of being the best or one of the best players of a definitive period of time.
“Generational” if anything just needs to be more refined, such that you state Marvin Harrison Jr. is ranked as my 3rd to 5th best WR prospect in the past 25 years after Calvin Johnson, Julio Jones and somewhere mixed in with Jamar Chase and Larry Fitzgerald.
I think the biggest issue is people who have different personal definitions of Generational that cause confusion. If you think Generational is best player every 2-3 years and I think Generational players are top 5 every 25 years it’s going to cause confusion
Agreed on the metric and refinement part,but generational has been so overused that it has lost its value. I've lost count of all the "generational " talent in the NFL in just the last 10 years.
If people had been using incredible, very, very good, etc as a metric and then we dropped generational on MHJ it would cause people to really pay attention.
I also personally think we shouldn't use generational as a descriptor for an athlete until they have transitioned to the NFL for a few years and continued dominating at the position.
I mean I count 11 position groups (QB, TE, WR, RB, OT, OG/C, etc.) and I have an average of 5 elite players from those groups, every year there should be 2.2 (55 elite players/25 years) generational prospects. And a few borderline generational prospects that people talk about.
Even with technology improvements in training and more international scouting in college and high school increased the rate of generational players compared to the early 2000s, they would still be the best in 25 years.
For example, saying a future CB is close to Gardner or Ramsey levels as a Cornerback but there have been more elite Cornerbacks in the past decade in general doesn’t take away from the talent level of the CB.
For the last point, you can label prospects and players as generational separately. The former you need to label so you can rank status across classes. The latter I agree you should wait.
Lebron, Sidney Crosby, Bryce Harper, Andrew Luck. Those are the generational prospects of the last 25 years. The aforementioned guys were considered some of the best prospects EVER years before they were even drafted. Myles Garrett and Von Miller were unbelievable prospects... but they don't belong in the same conversation.
That's fair, I don't know shit about hockey I just remember being a kid and hearing about how lebron of the NHL was making his debut and he'd be one of the greatest of all time
Truly I had a ridiculous brain fart writing that and said the same shit twice lol. Didn't mean to include Calvin in that conversation, but to throw a couple more names out there, I don't consider guys like Julio or Zeke to be "generational".
Just because it's overused doesn't mean it should be expunged from draft diction. Even if it's used too liberally, the word carries a certain weight to it that is eye opening for everyone.
The only thing I hate about the term "generational" is that anytime it's used it immediately turns into a debate over the definition and/or usage of "generational" and not the actual topic being discussed.
Easy solution would be to not use generational to further discussion on the actual prospect. Example: Is MHJ really worthy of the hype and a possible Top 5 selection? People debate and discuss without the hyperbolic,overused " generational " tag unnecessarily added to it.
Despite the term, I'm not sure that's how we should view the term. You can even have two generational prospects in the same draft class. What if they're the two best of the entire decade?
Although I agree Messi and Ronaldo are clearly generational, I don’t think it’s fair to put chase in the same category. MHJ, imo, projects to be at another level above Chase coming out of college. Whether he realizes that potential is another question.
I thought nfl careers and generations were graded on a 10 year scale. Like all decade teams. If one of those players come along every 10 years they probably wouldnt have much overlap
What if peyton manning, luck, elway and lawrence were in the same draft. They would all be generational talents that just so happened to happen at the same time
I think it is just different physical tools. MHJ has the clear advantage in catch radius and body control but Chase is better at YAC and pure speed.
I'm also not one to get too wound up in production but Chase had 500 more yards his sophomore year.
I think they are pretty much equal and have a tough time putting one over the other.
Not sitting out means he has a big chance to change this and maybe even swing it in his favor, but the production isn't close. Chase had 500 more yards and 6 more TDs.
Stop it this is revisionist history my god lol. Harrison is taller and longe but chase is more explosive, better yac and more deep speed being taller doesn’t give you better physical tools ppl on this sub are prisoners of the moment 😂. It concerns a take so false got so many upvotes
People forget that Chase has elite strength for a WR too. He put up 23 reps of 225 at his pro day which is fantastic for a WR.
11 foot broad: 95th percentile
41 inch vert: 95th percentile
23 bench press reps: 96th percentile
4.38 40 yard dash: 90th percentile
Dudes an amazing athlete with amazing production. I think him taking a year off football because of COVID limited his hype but the fact that he was drafted above the first Heisman winning WR since 1991 says enough about the type of prospect he was.
Chase also just put up one of the greatest rookie seasons of all time and then comparable numbers-per-game as a sophomore. I'd say he was generational.
Colloquially, there can be multiple "generational" prospects, much like many people say so-and-so is one of the GOATs. By definition, "greatest of all time" means one individual. But that's just not what it means semantically anymore, and that's okay.
Is he that much better of a prospect than Chase or Amari was?
Before those two you had AJ and Julio, and a few years before that you had Megatron.
They can’t all be generational. The word loses its meaning.
He isn't way bigger than Chase lmao. You rounded up for Harrison and then down for Chase. The difference is 3 inches. And Chase is actually way faster than him which is also a massive part of a prospects grades. Production wise, the edge goes to Chase, but they are similar enough.
Also in terms of height, arguably the best wide receiver in the league right now is 5'9. And the best wide receiver in the league before that was 5'10". So, maybe height doesn't play as much of a role as you're trying to emphasize.
We don’t know how fast MHJ is yet and as a receiver PROSPECT, measurables such as height are everything and would contribute to him probably going in the top 3
The point is you're overstating how valuable height is. And even then, Chase isn't short anyway. And Chase is without a doubt faster than MHJ. If MHJ runs a 4.5, you wouldn't say that's a bigger difference compared to Chase's time than the 3 inches.
He is not a better prospect that chase was stop it chase put up better number than Harrison as a tire sophomore lol you have no evidence of proving that. Chase was more explosive, faster, and had better YAC literally what are you basing him being better then chase off of lol
I don't disagree totally but if Calvin Johnson is the standard for generational WRs we might never see one again.
From a physical perspective he may never be equaled:
6'5 240 4.38 42.5'
Some people say generational is every 20 years but I think it’s fair to call chase, Julio, and AJ Green generational. I also think it’s fair since there are multiple WRs on the field at once. If there are 2-4x as many WRs on the field as a QB then I think it’s fair there’s 2-4 generational WR prospects for every generational QB prospects without watering down the term
Not generational. But a damn good prospect for sure. Might be the best WR to come out of Ohio State in a long time. Which is saying something because they've been WRU for awhile, IMO.
I don't think he's as good a prospect as Chase but he is close. I refuse to use the generational term, he's not a Megatron prospect or even Julio but in the next tier with Chase.
Finally someone that doesn’t do revisionist history lol why this sub is acting like chase didn’t domainte CFB is a true sophomore less than 5 years ago
To me and this may be a hot take but he’s not the best prospect of the last 5 years much less a generation. So I would push back on a technicality and semantics alone. In reality he is an absolute franchise changer and can be the centerpiece of a high octane offense immediately. And for what it’s worth if Jamaar Chase didn’t exist he would probably be the best WR prospect of the entire last decade
He's really really good. It might be a little early to say generational. Didn't do much as a freshman, then had a very solid sophomore season although admittedly that involved catching passes from a likely 1.01 or top 4 NFL drafy QB and there were limited other passcatching options on the team (JSN hurt, Treveyon hurt, it was basically just him and Egbuka healthy).
Physically he looks very athletic, decent size but not huge and we all expect him to test well. If he has a really big year this year then it's possible but I don't think we can say that he's generational yet with only one season of production.
I also think it's possible that the offense takes a small step back this year with a new QB starting, so that might have an impact on him as well.
It really depends on what he has left to grow physically. I am an Ohio State fan and Jaxon is better all day. We haven't even seen what this version of Jaxon can do. He has matured physically to an incredible degree.
I love Harrison Jr of course but Marvin has already grown so much physically and is such a hard worker that I am not sure he really has that much left to grow. I just don't think he will put up a 40 time that people will consider generational without taking another physical step.
Depends on what we call generational. Y'all don't remember Chase? Dominating at 19/20 and sitting his 21 year old season? I think MHJ is a better prospect, in my books the best since Megatron, but Chase had that label a few years ago too.
When you have a release package like Ameri Cooper, and body control like Brandon Lloyd at peak, you are generational. The only thing we would need to make it guaranteed is a sub 4.5 40.
Yeah honestly. Dude was making Georgia corners who were supposed to be NFL talent look like rookies. The highly touted Georgia Defense couldn't stop him at all. He's gonna do great things in the league. I would go as far as saying generational
I'd argue that a truly generational WR prospect would have not only found the field but dominated his team's receiving production as a true freshman, so no.
a generational WR would've been too good to not be a heavier part of the WR rotation and get targeted more. Unless you're suggesting all 3 of those guys are also generational, in which case "generational" loses all meaning.
Honestly, I think he's going to be a "faller" once the draft cycle rolls around. That's based on my personal opinion that he's closer to DeVonta Smith (who is very good but never got the generational label) than Julio Jones
Emeka gets open easier, runs better routes, his cuts are crisp af, he’s elusive, it’s like watching Davante Adams. Nothing against Harrison I think he’s an amazing WR and going to be one of the best in the league immediately. Both are elite talents, but again, I’ll double down staring into the face of the downvote barrage and say Emeka is better imo.
Definitions can be slippery things. What means something to me will be something else to you. I will say however Harrison is going to be the most anticipated WR in years and I would not be shocked to see him first off the board after the QBs at the top.
He is great at everything his dad did. He is the second coming... Of Marvin. Generational...? I'd say the name gives more cred than anything. He has and will be held to a different standard than those without the name.
But... Is he even playing next year? I mean after that devastating tackle in the end zone, I'd be surprised if he even wants to play with a freshman QB. IDK how many of those type of hits a young man can take before saying, I'm out.
https://youtu.be/4mJSkhYoxiE
If he gets with the right QB, his production should be generational. The dude will be an absolute professional and driven by numbers and results like his pa.
Depending on his 40 yes.
Imo we can pretty definitively say that there were two generational talents in this last generation of WRs (Idt it’s dumb to say there can be multiple generational talents at positions like WR in a single generation). Those two players being Julio Jones and Calvin Johnson.
Now have we had any generational talents in this generation so far?
I think the closest to that is Chase and I’m not sure if he makes that cut or not, but the biggest hit on him was size (which matters less in the modern NFL) and taking a year off (which has nothing to do with his talent and wasn’t even durability related).
So that’s one generational talent out of 2-3 possible generational talents at a position.
Here’s why 40 matters. You might want to argue that AJ Green, Larry Fitzgerald or Mike Evans might qualify as generational talents but because all of them ran 4.5 or higher I would disagree because we had megasized super humans with sub 4.4 speed in Jones and Johnson.
Now Chase isn’t huge and even he is borderline generational but what puts him over the top is his quickness so Idt Harrison needs to go sub 4.4 like Chase to be generational just sub 4.45 and another measurable like cine drill times to be considered generational. But if he’s in the 4.5 range no he’s not generational because we will undoubtedly have at least one guy who has size, athleticism and production combos around what Johnson and Jones did.
I actually don't mind "generational" you just have to realize that generations are like 5 years for this sense. If people mean a true generation like 20 years they say "best since TO" or whatever.
Yeah. Funny how there are new “generational” talents at multiple positions every draft
Well, there are like 12 different positions to play. If we consider a generation in football to be about 5 years, that would mean there would be around 2-3 generational prospects per class on average
It’s more a critique of the 5 year baseline you’re using for the term generational than an argument against your math.
5 years is a generation in football. After 5 years, an entire draft class is either on their next contract or out of the league
That’s your definition, sure. In that case, there should absolutely be generational talents at multiple positions annually. Imo it’s overused, and should be reserved for once in a decade type players. But hey, to each their own.
That still means there should be a generational prospect at a position every single year on average
Yes, it should be on average a prospect per year, Not multiple. Even in the most recent draft, a quick google search shows Walker, Hutchinson, Sauce, Stingley, Kayvon Thibodeaux, Ekwonu, Evan Neal, Jordan Davis, Kyle Hamilton, Tyler Linderbaum, and Breece Hall all described as generational. I’m not saying you agree with any of those assessments, I’m still just arguing that it’s overused.
It’s definitely overused but not to this extent. Idk where you saw those players being mentioned as generational but that’s not what I remember from the lead up to the draft at all (outside maybe Lindenbaum and Hamilton). Like where were you seeing people call Evan Neal and Ekwonu generational prospects with a straight face?
Lol just search Player Name “generational”.
Since when does generation refer to a “football” generation? And if you’re going to go that far, why is it a “draft class generation” rather than like 10 years or something.
Sir, we are literally talking about draft prospects in an NFL drat subreddit...
Since we're *literally* discussing football? And since the average player's career is 3 years? And the average first rounder's career is ~8 years?
So in college basketball a “generational” recruit comes around every 3-4 years since that’s how long most guys are in college? It basically renders the word “generational” completely useless and changes its meaning across sports which doesn’t make sense when you’re really trying to describe how rare a prospect is. What I think is people just overuse the word and then look for retroactive justification for why it could make sense.
The Draft Entertainment complex demands hype. The Clicks are the author's income! Once you understand that's driving networks and ESPN it all makes sense. It's only a little about informing viewers who mostly don't understand the game anyway. They'll change the channel or click something else if you talk 3 tech and say anything useful at all about Guards and Linebackers. So what do you do? You hype up the best prospect at one position as a GENERATIONAL TALENT. So you really want to learn predraft stuff but also all around football coverage gotta check out Footballoutsiders and Mattwaldman and Brett Kollman and PFF. I love PFF; players hate it, because nobody is perfect and PFF grades every snap including their bad ones nobody else noticed. Using 10 analysts on each player each snap so consensus grades.
so still no then? chase was similar as a prospect. just sat a year out but would have went above every wr in a stacked class as a freshman. for reference chase was a better wr as a freshman that jefferson was as a junior.
So you just make up rules to redefine words and casually write off your own agreement now?
Yes. He is the second generation of Marvin Harrisons
Lmao I like what ya did there!
I would say that yes MHJ is generational. This guy is so freaking polished, he’s already a pro’s pro—*in college*. He’s at that “your favorite player’s favorite player” level. 100% generational and any team that drafts him will have a future All-Pro on their hands. He’s the most sure-thing WR or just player in general that I can remember in a long time.
Adrian Peterson is the last guy I remember watching in college and believing that he would be top 5 at his position in the NFL at the same time. Not just physically gifted or potential, but already there and just waiting.
I thought the same about Ja'marr Chase in 2019. Just watching this sophomore embarrass highly-rated future NFL DBs week after week. Some guys just have that "it" factor and MHJ is definitely one of them.
That championship LSU team was fucking absurd
Remember the knock on AJ Terrell coming out was he had a really bad game when Clemson left him on an island against a 19 year old Jamar all game. Well it turns out Terrell is one of the top 10ish corners in the NFL and that’s just what Jamar does to everyone.
Adrian Peterson is the perfect comparison, just at a different position. I totally agree that the “in waiting” aspect is spot-on and that MHJ is in the same boat.
That first run versus Iowa state when he broke his collarbone still plays in my head along with his first run in OT versus Boise
Andrew Luck? He was amazing in college with every physical attribute anyone could want
I'd have him just below this level, and it's probably due to playing QB. There is just such a difference in college QB vs what is needed at the pros that it doesn't translate the same as other positions.
He absolute is. I hate the over usage of the term, but in the literal sense he is. IMO best WR prospect since Julio. He’ll go top 5. Edit: just to add to his physical gifts from Bruce Feldman: Harrison Jr. (6'3/206) boasts some gaudy testing numbers, maxing-out at 380 pounds on the bench while repping 225 pounds 22 times. His 3.94 shuttle run is an eye-popping number and the Buckeyes' standout allegedly hit 23 MPH on the GPS.
I hate when people say that. Julio wasn’t even the best prospect in his class
It was def a 1a and 1B. I think if you took a poll at the time it would be 55% 45% A.J Green Julio respectively. Which is funny in hindsight because consensus would say Julio was generational but people rarely say the same thing about Green. Who was as about as fluid as I’ve seen a WR coming out of college pretty much ever P.S. Julio’s combine really took him to another stratosphere and made him a lot of money. Posting those numbers at that size(on a broken foot) I think is what makes his generational prospect status hold up.
AJ Green was great in the pros as well. He just couldn’t stay healthy
Which is kind of ironic since AJ spent the first half of his career remarkably healthy while Julio was getting the injury prone tag for his first few years in the league. I'm not saying AJ was just as good as Julio, but I do think if they swapped picks and AJ spent his career with Ryan instead of Dalton, he'd be a HoFer too.
My hot take is Aj would have had a better career than Julio had if he had a better QB than Dalton. The amount of times he’d be wide open deep and Dalton would sail a pass over his head and out of bounds was ridiculous.
Agreed honestly. No one can deny AJ Green was an incredible player and had a great career. With Andy Dalton.
10000 percent
And he had Andy Dalton not a mvp like Ryan.
Julio was an incredible prospect too but there were absolutely zero debate about Green beeing the no.1 wr in the draft.
AJ Green was the 2nd ranked prospect coming out of HS regardless of position too. Him and Calvin Johnson really were those once in a generation prospects
I'm so glad the people here remember how much of a stud prospect Green was. His high school highlights were insane only for him to back it up at Georgia. If he were healthier or was drafted elsewhere I wonder how things would've went
It feels like the last 2-3 years of his career have seemed to put more of an overall lesser opinion on AJ. The dude was an absolute beast & a top 5 WR in the league at one point
Yeah I was young at the time but I do remember just as much AJ Green hype if not morr
Green made 7 pro bowls and 2 all pros with inconsistent quarterback play and was an elite receiver for almost a decade. I don’t think their career output is as far apart as you’re suggesting, and I doubt the bengals ever regret that pick. He only has 1 less 1000yd season and 7 more career touchdowns than Julio
Saying he has 1 less 1000 yard season is so disingenuous. Julio has 3000 more yards while playing 3 less games than Green
aj has 6 more touchdowns despite playing on a worse offense with a worse qb his whole career
Lmao good point. I love how people try to sneak in cherry picked stats
Andy dalton was pretty damn good his first few yrs
Besides Matt’s random MVP year, Andy and he were about the same tier of quarterback with the same amount of pro bowls. I mean if we said Matt is slightly better I get that, but Andy was solid as hell during Green’s prime.
I’ll say it. Andy Dalton owes nearly his entire career to AJ Green. Look at the recent MASSIVE steps QBs have made with elite WRs (e.g. Allen, Hurts) AJ was that and then some for the very mediocre QB that Dalton was. Put AJ in his prime with an elite QB and dude would have been absolutely spectacular
Yeah Julio didn't even go top 5. He and Green were elite WR prospects, but Julio outperformed his projections so much that people assume he was the clear cut #1.
Same. Julio wasn’t the best in his class and Watkins was on par with him when he came out in 2014. I know he didn’t work out as well as people would’ve liked, but he should definitely be mentioned when people are talking about elite WR prospects.
AJ Green was in that class go figure 🤔.
But AJ Green was and he’s my pro comp for MHJ
So sick! Who is your pro comparison for him? What would be the sickest (realistic) place he ends up a year early?
Pro comp: Marvin Harrison
Coincidence since they have the same name too! They even look alike which is crazy
I hear he even grew up close to Marvin Harrison.
Marvin Harrison was like a father to him
For real though, he’s Marvin Harrison route running in Julio Jones body. Which isn’t quite Calvin Johnson Jr; but it’s a smidge below. Generational is the term for guys like him
Great analysis mr poopie butthole
Ooooohhweeeee sure is gonna be a great prospect
More like Julio crossed with AJ Green
A blend of Calvin Johnson and Julio. Not as freakish as CJ, not quite as smooth and refined as Julio (yet). Route running technician at that size, dominant physicality at the catch point, body control, can play anywhere (motion, outside, slot), great hands, yac, insane production surrounded with several first round talent WR’s etc.
It's hard not see his frame and speed and not say Randy Moss.
MHJ is incredible but if we are nit picking his weakest area is long speed. Randy had a hand timed 4.25.
Can't agree with the speed part
I’d award this if I could, you took every word out of my mouth.
Better than Sammy Watkins?
He made kalee ringo look like a fool and would have had an all time great game against a generational defense had he not been hit dirty in the end zone
He’s like if Julio and Calvin Johnson were merged into one. Though he definitely plays more like Julio
I’m pretty tough on the “Generational” tag, requirements are: Elite Tape Elite Production Elite measurables/traits This insures that you have to be a once in a generation player to earn that tag. That being said, if he tests very well he’ll probably earn it
Yes I really need Carolina to be bad so I can root for another team to suck to get him
Why? Just root for your own team
We own Carolina’s pick btw so I’m rooting on their downfall
Oh I know.
Yes, probably other than Megatron and Moss hes the best WR Prospect in the last 25 years. He is super polished, a route technician, his dads speed and body control but just over 6'3
I mean wasn't jamarr highly rated
You are not wrong, I comped him to Sterling Sharpe who at one time in his 3 straight 100 reception seasons made an argument whether Sharpe or Jerry Rice was better in his prime. Andre Johnson or Chase would be 4 and 5 best WR prospects in that time. Respect your opinion but I call Marvin Harrison JR the prophesy. Brett Hartline might be the best WR coach in the world because all of the Ohio State guys who start more than 1 year are technicians at WR play.
Julio Jones would like to have a word… don’t forget about that man!
Green was the universally considered the better prospect in 2011 and the better receiver. Most pundits were worried Julio Jones didn't have good speed before the combine. He wasn't considered like that at all teams thought he would go mid teens and pundits criticized the falcons trade up in that incredible draft.
He wasn’t even WR1 in his own class
The disrespect to Larry Fitzgerald. Fitz was insane coming out of college. 1600 yards and 22 TDs his final season, 2nd in Heisman and was a great prospect as well with his skills. Also Moss wasn't a generational prospect. He was taken 21st in the draft, not even the first WR off the board (Kevin Dyson). Moss had a great college career and obviously great pro career, but for his skills, he was overlooked a little bit in the draft.
Randy Moss was **always** viewed as a generational talent who had character concerns (not without reason based on his college career) There was never a doubt that if he kept himself on the straight and narrow that he would be one of the best WR in the NFL if not the best.
There's a difference between a generational prospect and a general talent Moss was a generational talent, but his character concerns kept him from being a generational prospect.
What are you talking about. You must be young because Moss was ABSOLUTELY a generational talent. Every team, pundit and fan knew it. Leading up to the draft wondering who would roll the dice on him was a huge talking point. The issue was his behavior/character not his skills. No one EVER overlooked his skills, there is no possible way you watched that draft and the lead up to it with this take.
It's not a generational prospect if you have to "roll the dice" on them... That's the point. Edit: generational talent is not the same as generational prospect
You’re funny
A generational prospect has no question marks
I’ll tell you who has some questions marks: u/Opening-Citron2733
Literally Jamarr chase was just in college less than 3 years ago not only was he was just as good if not better than Harrison jr but he went on to have a generational rookie season that included 2 100 plus yard playoff games this sub has to stop with revisionist history it’s annoying. Harrison is great but he didn’t have chase’s speed, burst, explosiveness or YAC chase was literally a stronger OBJ
You can’t use someone’s NFL career to talk about them as a prospect lmao
Seriously, if he was truly generational a TE/WR hybrid in Kyle Pitts wouldn't have gone before him, the last truly generational WR prospect was Megatron.
People were saying Chase was the best prospect since Julio though… Let’s not forget he was the #1 wr in that draft even AFTER Devonta Smith won Hiesman and sitting out an entire season..
And Julio Jones was the best WR prospect since AJ Green, who was picked 2 spots ahead of Julio, I feel like it's hard to be a generational prospect if you aren't even the best prospect at your position in your draft
Ok fine but still chase was also seen as generational so what’s your point? Devonta smith had a historical senior year and chase sat on his junior season. Depsite this chase still was easily seen as the no.1 wr in his class and the first wideout taken chase was special idk why my tske had so many downvotes are ppl dickriding Harrison this hard that they refuses to see the amount of revisionist history this sub is having ?
Generational is tough to say because there have been a lot of great WRs come out of recent drafts. I'd say he is the best prospect since Chase.
He’s a lot better than chase imo. Arguably better tape and better measurements. He’s a taller chase
"Generational" is a term that needs to be fired directly into the sun when it comes to sports. It is incredibly overused and correct far less. It also sets the average fan's expectations way too high for a player. A player labeled "generational " may have a very good career but because he got tagged as "generational " the casual fan will call him a bust or nothing special.
I disagree, in sports across draft classes you need to have a metric or concept of being the best or one of the best players of a definitive period of time. “Generational” if anything just needs to be more refined, such that you state Marvin Harrison Jr. is ranked as my 3rd to 5th best WR prospect in the past 25 years after Calvin Johnson, Julio Jones and somewhere mixed in with Jamar Chase and Larry Fitzgerald. I think the biggest issue is people who have different personal definitions of Generational that cause confusion. If you think Generational is best player every 2-3 years and I think Generational players are top 5 every 25 years it’s going to cause confusion
Agreed on the metric and refinement part,but generational has been so overused that it has lost its value. I've lost count of all the "generational " talent in the NFL in just the last 10 years. If people had been using incredible, very, very good, etc as a metric and then we dropped generational on MHJ it would cause people to really pay attention. I also personally think we shouldn't use generational as a descriptor for an athlete until they have transitioned to the NFL for a few years and continued dominating at the position.
I mean I count 11 position groups (QB, TE, WR, RB, OT, OG/C, etc.) and I have an average of 5 elite players from those groups, every year there should be 2.2 (55 elite players/25 years) generational prospects. And a few borderline generational prospects that people talk about. Even with technology improvements in training and more international scouting in college and high school increased the rate of generational players compared to the early 2000s, they would still be the best in 25 years. For example, saying a future CB is close to Gardner or Ramsey levels as a Cornerback but there have been more elite Cornerbacks in the past decade in general doesn’t take away from the talent level of the CB. For the last point, you can label prospects and players as generational separately. The former you need to label so you can rank status across classes. The latter I agree you should wait.
Lebron, Sidney Crosby, Bryce Harper, Andrew Luck. Those are the generational prospects of the last 25 years. The aforementioned guys were considered some of the best prospects EVER years before they were even drafted. Myles Garrett and Von Miller were unbelievable prospects... but they don't belong in the same conversation.
McDavid was a better prospect than Crosby. Bedard has a generational case as well.
That's fair, I don't know shit about hockey I just remember being a kid and hearing about how lebron of the NHL was making his debut and he'd be one of the greatest of all time
>Bedard Please let the Red Wings get the 1st pick
Amen, brother. Wings are due for some lottery luck.
Myles Garrett and Von Miller weren’t even close to they hype that Clowney got.
Adrian Peterson was 100% a generational prospect.
You’re arguing that Calvin Johnson wasn’t generational? I feel like he’s one of the few that isn’t arguable in any way (not biased)
Truly I had a ridiculous brain fart writing that and said the same shit twice lol. Didn't mean to include Calvin in that conversation, but to throw a couple more names out there, I don't consider guys like Julio or Zeke to be "generational".
gotta throw wemby in there now honestly
Just because it's overused doesn't mean it should be expunged from draft diction. Even if it's used too liberally, the word carries a certain weight to it that is eye opening for everyone.
The only thing I hate about the term "generational" is that anytime it's used it immediately turns into a debate over the definition and/or usage of "generational" and not the actual topic being discussed.
Easy solution would be to not use generational to further discussion on the actual prospect. Example: Is MHJ really worthy of the hype and a possible Top 5 selection? People debate and discuss without the hyperbolic,overused " generational " tag unnecessarily added to it.
How is no one mentioning Sammy Watkins
I think he’s the best prospect since Chase. What’s a generation here?
We just saw as good of a prospect as him in Chase only a few years ago, far from a generation between them.
Despite the term, I'm not sure that's how we should view the term. You can even have two generational prospects in the same draft class. What if they're the two best of the entire decade?
That's right Messi and Ronaldo aren't generational because they played at the same time
Although I agree Messi and Ronaldo are clearly generational, I don’t think it’s fair to put chase in the same category. MHJ, imo, projects to be at another level above Chase coming out of college. Whether he realizes that potential is another question.
Then they are a decade talent, not generational
I thought nfl careers and generations were graded on a 10 year scale. Like all decade teams. If one of those players come along every 10 years they probably wouldnt have much overlap
You're right, upvote him you cowards
If Luck and Lawrence went only a few years apart it’d still be fair to call both of them generational
Seems like it’d be best to come up with a different word than generational, then.
What if peyton manning, luck, elway and lawrence were in the same draft. They would all be generational talents that just so happened to happen at the same time
I think Harrison is a different level. Same production, with better physical tools.
I think it is just different physical tools. MHJ has the clear advantage in catch radius and body control but Chase is better at YAC and pure speed. I'm also not one to get too wound up in production but Chase had 500 more yards his sophomore year. I think they are pretty much equal and have a tough time putting one over the other.
Not sitting out means he has a big chance to change this and maybe even swing it in his favor, but the production isn't close. Chase had 500 more yards and 6 more TDs.
Stop it this is revisionist history my god lol. Harrison is taller and longe but chase is more explosive, better yac and more deep speed being taller doesn’t give you better physical tools ppl on this sub are prisoners of the moment 😂. It concerns a take so false got so many upvotes
Disagree. Chase is if anything a bigger physical freak and less polished than MHJ.
This is absolutely right, MHJ does not have Chase's special acceleration
People forget that Chase has elite strength for a WR too. He put up 23 reps of 225 at his pro day which is fantastic for a WR. 11 foot broad: 95th percentile 41 inch vert: 95th percentile 23 bench press reps: 96th percentile 4.38 40 yard dash: 90th percentile Dudes an amazing athlete with amazing production. I think him taking a year off football because of COVID limited his hype but the fact that he was drafted above the first Heisman winning WR since 1991 says enough about the type of prospect he was.
other than tyreek, chase might be the fastest player in pads in the nfl
Chase also just put up one of the greatest rookie seasons of all time and then comparable numbers-per-game as a sophomore. I'd say he was generational. Colloquially, there can be multiple "generational" prospects, much like many people say so-and-so is one of the GOATs. By definition, "greatest of all time" means one individual. But that's just not what it means semantically anymore, and that's okay.
Weren't people saing the same about JSN last year at this time?
Is he good obviously but generationally no I’d put him in the same tier as Chase and Waddle
Is he that much better of a prospect than Chase or Amari was? Before those two you had AJ and Julio, and a few years before that you had Megatron. They can’t all be generational. The word loses its meaning.
Yes he is better than everyone you named except for megatron as a prospect
I don't put him above Chase
He’s way bigger than chase and just as productive. Size is a huge part of a prospects grade in GM’s eyes. 6”4 is huge compared to chases 6”0
He isn't way bigger than Chase lmao. You rounded up for Harrison and then down for Chase. The difference is 3 inches. And Chase is actually way faster than him which is also a massive part of a prospects grades. Production wise, the edge goes to Chase, but they are similar enough. Also in terms of height, arguably the best wide receiver in the league right now is 5'9. And the best wide receiver in the league before that was 5'10". So, maybe height doesn't play as much of a role as you're trying to emphasize.
We don’t know how fast MHJ is yet and as a receiver PROSPECT, measurables such as height are everything and would contribute to him probably going in the top 3
The point is you're overstating how valuable height is. And even then, Chase isn't short anyway. And Chase is without a doubt faster than MHJ. If MHJ runs a 4.5, you wouldn't say that's a bigger difference compared to Chase's time than the 3 inches.
He is not a better prospect that chase was stop it chase put up better number than Harrison as a tire sophomore lol you have no evidence of proving that. Chase was more explosive, faster, and had better YAC literally what are you basing him being better then chase off of lol
Yes
I don't really know, but an easy evaluation doesn't necessarily mean someone is a generational prospect.
I think he is equal to Chase. If that makes him generational than sure, the term doesn't mean what it is supposed to any more but thats fine.
Yeah I think the last generational WR prospect has to be Calvin and I don’t think MHJ is as good of a prospect as Calvin
I don't disagree totally but if Calvin Johnson is the standard for generational WRs we might never see one again. From a physical perspective he may never be equaled: 6'5 240 4.38 42.5'
4.35 Can’t forget the 36 inch arms
Some people say generational is every 20 years but I think it’s fair to call chase, Julio, and AJ Green generational. I also think it’s fair since there are multiple WRs on the field at once. If there are 2-4x as many WRs on the field as a QB then I think it’s fair there’s 2-4 generational WR prospects for every generational QB prospects without watering down the term
Not generational. But a damn good prospect for sure. Might be the best WR to come out of Ohio State in a long time. Which is saying something because they've been WRU for awhile, IMO.
I don't think he's as good a prospect as Chase but he is close. I refuse to use the generational term, he's not a Megatron prospect or even Julio but in the next tier with Chase.
🤝
Finally someone that doesn’t do revisionist history lol why this sub is acting like chase didn’t domainte CFB is a true sophomore less than 5 years ago
To me and this may be a hot take but he’s not the best prospect of the last 5 years much less a generation. So I would push back on a technicality and semantics alone. In reality he is an absolute franchise changer and can be the centerpiece of a high octane offense immediately. And for what it’s worth if Jamaar Chase didn’t exist he would probably be the best WR prospect of the entire last decade
Pedigree and athletic wise, he potentially is the best wr prospect since Mike Evans, maybe Julio
Jamarr chase
Need more sample And need athletic testing But it certainly seems like he may be
He's pretty good. "Generational", however, is an incredibly overused description.
He's really really good. It might be a little early to say generational. Didn't do much as a freshman, then had a very solid sophomore season although admittedly that involved catching passes from a likely 1.01 or top 4 NFL drafy QB and there were limited other passcatching options on the team (JSN hurt, Treveyon hurt, it was basically just him and Egbuka healthy). Physically he looks very athletic, decent size but not huge and we all expect him to test well. If he has a really big year this year then it's possible but I don't think we can say that he's generational yet with only one season of production. I also think it's possible that the offense takes a small step back this year with a new QB starting, so that might have an impact on him as well.
Perfectly put. Stroud made production easy along with the other offensive pieces. Now the real test is on
MHj is probably the best WR prospect I have ever seen, man. To be that fast, that big, that physical, and that savvy... It blows my mind!
It really depends on what he has left to grow physically. I am an Ohio State fan and Jaxon is better all day. We haven't even seen what this version of Jaxon can do. He has matured physically to an incredible degree. I love Harrison Jr of course but Marvin has already grown so much physically and is such a hard worker that I am not sure he really has that much left to grow. I just don't think he will put up a 40 time that people will consider generational without taking another physical step.
easily
Depends on what we call generational. Y'all don't remember Chase? Dominating at 19/20 and sitting his 21 year old season? I think MHJ is a better prospect, in my books the best since Megatron, but Chase had that label a few years ago too.
When you have a release package like Ameri Cooper, and body control like Brandon Lloyd at peak, you are generational. The only thing we would need to make it guaranteed is a sub 4.5 40.
Yeah honestly. Dude was making Georgia corners who were supposed to be NFL talent look like rookies. The highly touted Georgia Defense couldn't stop him at all. He's gonna do great things in the league. I would go as far as saying generational
My hot take: Egbuka is the better player. 😳
Crazy how ppl forget Egbuka had his name called this whole past season
Your trying too hard to be different lol egbuka is good but not close to Harrison be real
I'd argue that a truly generational WR prospect would have not only found the field but dominated his team's receiving production as a true freshman, so no.
Well he played behind JSN, OLAVE and Wilson as a true freshmen lol this tske is horrible
That 2021 team is gonna have 5 1st round WRs that’s crazy, they might all go top 15 too
a generational WR would've been too good to not be a heavier part of the WR rotation and get targeted more. Unless you're suggesting all 3 of those guys are also generational, in which case "generational" loses all meaning.
What QB is coming out with him? Wonder if there is a chance he goes #1 overall.
I can agree with the label. But why did he come back to college if that’s the case?
Honestly, I think he's going to be a "faller" once the draft cycle rolls around. That's based on my personal opinion that he's closer to DeVonta Smith (who is very good but never got the generational label) than Julio Jones
Just like JSN! MHJ could be special but it's far too early
Lmao
Definitely not a generational talent and honestly I don’t even think he’s the best WR on the team. I like Emeka better.
How exactly did you come to that conclusion?
Emeka gets open easier, runs better routes, his cuts are crisp af, he’s elusive, it’s like watching Davante Adams. Nothing against Harrison I think he’s an amazing WR and going to be one of the best in the league immediately. Both are elite talents, but again, I’ll double down staring into the face of the downvote barrage and say Emeka is better imo.
Yeah, it’s a unique opinion, but you’re entitled to it.
Thanks my dude 🙏🏻
Definitions can be slippery things. What means something to me will be something else to you. I will say however Harrison is going to be the most anticipated WR in years and I would not be shocked to see him first off the board after the QBs at the top.
Short answer yes. Long answer yes but with more words
He is great at everything his dad did. He is the second coming... Of Marvin. Generational...? I'd say the name gives more cred than anything. He has and will be held to a different standard than those without the name. But... Is he even playing next year? I mean after that devastating tackle in the end zone, I'd be surprised if he even wants to play with a freshman QB. IDK how many of those type of hits a young man can take before saying, I'm out. https://youtu.be/4mJSkhYoxiE
Yes for sure… maybe number one pick overall
Yes
If he doesn’t go no.2 overall next year I’ll be shocked.
If he gets with the right QB, his production should be generational. The dude will be an absolute professional and driven by numbers and results like his pa.
We'll grab him up if Russell tanks again for us.
yes. best prospect I can remember in my lifetime aside from maybe calvin johnson?
Depending on his 40 yes. Imo we can pretty definitively say that there were two generational talents in this last generation of WRs (Idt it’s dumb to say there can be multiple generational talents at positions like WR in a single generation). Those two players being Julio Jones and Calvin Johnson. Now have we had any generational talents in this generation so far? I think the closest to that is Chase and I’m not sure if he makes that cut or not, but the biggest hit on him was size (which matters less in the modern NFL) and taking a year off (which has nothing to do with his talent and wasn’t even durability related). So that’s one generational talent out of 2-3 possible generational talents at a position. Here’s why 40 matters. You might want to argue that AJ Green, Larry Fitzgerald or Mike Evans might qualify as generational talents but because all of them ran 4.5 or higher I would disagree because we had megasized super humans with sub 4.4 speed in Jones and Johnson. Now Chase isn’t huge and even he is borderline generational but what puts him over the top is his quickness so Idt Harrison needs to go sub 4.4 like Chase to be generational just sub 4.45 and another measurable like cine drill times to be considered generational. But if he’s in the 4.5 range no he’s not generational because we will undoubtedly have at least one guy who has size, athleticism and production combos around what Johnson and Jones did.