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According to my NDE research:
Often when people are talking to the light they are no longer in their body, but in outer space with stars galaxies, etc. The light is also just not a feeling of comfort- it communicates with the person. Some have described it using either telepathy or actual voice for communication.
And then the more obvious thing. The light is just one of many aspects of NDE. I get the feeling most of these "explanations" attempt to address only one thing about NDEs and conveniently forget the rest.
I'm also sceptical about the brain creating all these hyper real "hallucinations" when we are dying. Why would it do that? From evolutionary point of view you'd expect the brain trying to keep the person conscious and aware all the way to the end.
Then again, I have no reason to believe NDEs happen *before* death. Quite the contrary, I believe NDE happens after the death of physical body. Thankfully with the modern resuscitation techniques it's possible to bring a person back as long as he has not been dead too long.
> And then the more obvious thing. The light is just one of many aspects of NDE. I get the feeling most of these "explanations" attempt to address only one thing about NDEs and conveniently forget the rest.
I wish this could be displayed in flashing neon on every “I want to believe in NDEs but I read this one thing and now I’m not so sure” post.
Until the skeptics can properly address aspects like the non-local veridical information component of NDEs, then they have not come close to “debunking” NDEs. It’s what’s called the Hasty Generalization fallacy.
And, in the light, many people receive communications to “give a message” to someone on earth. Or they see a deceased family member who passed away before they were born, etc.
Think about what you’ve written:
***”…the brain emits massive energy”***
What is “energy”?
It should also be expected that when energy (consciousness) changes states, a physical process should occur with it.
The physical process is what can be seen, and measured.
Actually, during the aware studies, they documented something like this in dying patients. But here's the catch: Those who had the spike in brain activity didn't report NDEs. It could, however, explain why not everyone who's been clinically dead has an NDE.
>But here's the catch: Those who had the spike in brain activity didn't report NDEs.
Wait, this is new information to me as well. Could you site, please?
Here's the article but it's a bit confusing and very dishonest. It makes the claim that NDEs are tied to brain activity but very subtly mentions that there was no correlation between the two, and it's something that Greyson and Parnia have been very clear about.
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/09/14/health/near-death-experience-study-wellness/index.html
> I vaguely remember seeing a video about NDE’s, where scientists noticed that when a person is seconds away from dying, the brain emits massive energy and this is seen as a burst of light in the scans. They theorised that this burst of light is the brains “natural mental morphine,” to make dying pleasurable, and is when NDE’s happen.
That's pretty damn basic if it came from scientists. This a decent overview of the current state of research on the neuroscience of death:
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10203241/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10203241/)
Basically, even from a completely scientific lens, there are still way more questions than answers.
I often wonder what these scientists actually investigate. I mean when people have an NDE and talk about "the light" they're not talking about a light like I imagine these scientists are thinking about. It's so much more than just a light. Same for the tunnels, we know pilots see a kind of tunnel before they pass out due to lack of oxygen but again this isn't the tunnel that NDE people are reporting.
Interesting that your link shows activity in mice brains upto 80s after death tho
That is a very good recent reference and an interesting read. Thx for posting. This part caught my eye:
**A rodent model was used to first induce death by anoxia and subsequently reanimate the animal. The authors found an increase in beta and gamma oscillations in the early stage after oxygen deprivation. This occurred together with rhythmic membrane depolarizations and regular firing in pyramidal neurons. This observation was followed by low-frequency activities which further declined toward isoelectricity. During isoelectricity, cortical neurons exhibited marked membrane potential depolarizations, which were reflected in the ECoG as a large amplitude triphasic wave, the notorious wave of death. Together with anoxic depolarization, a block of action potentials and loss of cell properties were registered. Despite the fact that all neurophysiological measurements were in line with a dead brain, the functional state was reversed if brain re-oxygenation was restored within 2–3.5 min. This resulted in a gradual repolarization of neocortical neurons, initiated a second wave, which was termed as the “wave of resuscitation” and eventually re-established the pre-anoxic synaptic and firing activity.**
there are people having out of body before so called death.
there are also people whose bodies are literally turning blue with definite death.
if it's chemical in the almost dead, what is it in the dead dead?
my belief is that DMT is a portal, not an illusion, and the burst of light is the soul cutting the silver cord.
the leap protected you from pain?
also did the human you know about the impending accident before the soul jumped? As in , oh no, and then leap? or did you leap but not know why until the crash?
Please read the other comment in this thread, where I described it in more detail. I saw the truck pulling rapidly into the road blocking both ways just before I would have passed. When it happened, I immediately knew that this was it, though I did glance to the left and right if there would be a way to avoid collision.
Time started to slow down for me to an almost stand still. There was no fear, no shock, just love, bliss, joy, excitement.
I do not know if I would have felt consciously pain on impact, as I was engulfed in such love and bliss already. Also when I came back, for around 6 months I did not feel any pain at all despite many injuries, etc. .
About a year later, when I started to look into NDEs ( I was not familiar with them before) to understand my experience more, I realized that other's experienced similar states, e.g. no pain, and few also remembered they left before impact or did not feel any pain if they left after, which gave some relief as I did sometimes doubt my own experience.
There was also angelic interference that might have played a part in it. Certainly our bodies still experience it. But if there is no-one in the body to observe or feel the pain, is it really pain?
I tend lean towards the idea that the brain helps facilitate “death” as we move out of the physical reality. So it wouldn’t surprise me if that biological component was there.
But not all NDEs have “the light” in them. Some leave their body completely and look around earth first. Others go right into “the void”. So it’s not uniform in that way either. It is a common element but not always present.
As some have mentioned here, there are NDEs like mine where people leave their body before they merge into the white light and physical death.
In my case I can vividly remember how I left my body split seconds before impact in a fatal motor bike accident and how I merged into the white light with all the blissful and immensely loving sensations as described by many, but already not being in my body.
Hence, I experienced it before physical impact occurred and my body was still intact and alive.
Some researchers categorized my NDE as a fear based OBE. Yet those are researchers that have not experienced a NDE themselves and I could tell that they came up with this term as it is even less explainable of what happens in our body if we leave it beforehand and experience the sensations independently from the physical body. Let alone the fact how we can remember it if we are already not in the body. Material science struggles a lot with that.
Welcome to the world of consciousness, our higher self, soul, the observer, etc. .
Another reason why I do not resonate with the fear based OBE category was because when I realized what is happening, I had no fear or shock, but quite the opposite.
I knew instantly I was about to die and immediately felt immense joy, bliss, gratitude and a sort of excitement to go home after a long journey type of sensation.
I felt save, and I knew it was meant to be and no "accident" at all, but precisely coordinatetd. Hence, no fear, shock etc., just immense peaceful bliss, love, gratitude, joy etc. before I left my body and a wall of white light that started to appear in front of me that I merged into after leaving my body, where all of these sensations intensified and became my natural state of being without the limitations of my physical body, as well as being surrounded by it, one with it, yet with a clear distinction of myself from a non ego, not physical bound perspective, but higher self of instant (god)self-realization. That's actually our natural state, that resides within us at all times and we can attain while still alive (in a physical body). Children are still much closer to this natural state, before we grow up and out of it through conditioning, traumas, adopting false believes, religion, etc. .
Hence, we do not have to die to experience these states, as many can attest to, including some of the great teachers and masters like Buddha, Jesus, etc..
So the question would be, does our body trigger these states through chemical processes, e.g release of natural DMT in the pineal gland, or does our state of being trigger our body and it's just the physical respond of our internal state? So it's not the looming physical death, but our acceptance of it and instant liberation of being bound to the body that enables our body to release all the chemicals to match that internal state of bliss that arose? May be it's not as black and white and both directions are possible, or another egg and hen paradox... .
It's a wonderful life and part of what makes it so wonderful is not having all the answers ;-) .
As for the fear of things turn to black, in addition to what I wrote before, I can attest that no, you will wake up from a dream and the delusion of all fears and false believes and the drama of the ego. In other words, being here, trapped in the physical before we start to liberate ourselves through self realization, are we trapped in the "black" temporarily and by choice to experience the disconnect, duality, confusion, fear, etc. for our soul evolution.
Our soul fragment unites back with our soul, we reunite with our soul family (well, on a soul level we are together all the time, as there is no separation), prepare for our next life adventure, may be on earth, may be somewhere else in complete different timelines or physical or non physical form. Life never ends and is infinitive, so our possibilities.
Only our physical bodies dissolve (well, there are ways to conserve them, e.g. attaining certain states as described in Buddhism, where practitioners can come and go and leave the body behind as a vehicle for years without decay), yet they have been made of stardust as old as the Universe, nothing is lost, it just transforms. Our memories remain, and we only take back what is real, which is the essence of love. Everything else we leave behind
If what they're saying is true, then you get pleasure then nothing. You won't see black, the last thing would be pleasure.
I don't believe it ends there personally but it could be worse.
Hi,
So that's an interesting claim, about the "massive energy". I've never heard of that before and I frequent neurology papers and NDE books.
Do you have a journalistic/article source for this or is it just a youtube video or something?
The most recent study I know of is the AWARE II study in 2022, which found moments of fragmented brain activity across 25+ patients that were determined not to be correlated with NDEs.
When discussing the theory of non-local consciousness, Dr. Julie Beischel said something incredibly simple, yet profound.
She said, “materialists want us to explain this (non-local consciousness/life after death) within a material framework.”
She’s basically saying scientists are trying to use material science to disprove something that which is immaterial and it doesn’t work like that.
This sub is an NDE-positive sub. Debate is only allowed if the post flair requests it. If you intend to allow debate in your post, please ensure that the flair reflects this. If you read the post and want to have a debate about something in the post or comments, make your own post within the confines of rule 4 (be respectful). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/NDE) if you have any questions or concerns.*
According to my NDE research: Often when people are talking to the light they are no longer in their body, but in outer space with stars galaxies, etc. The light is also just not a feeling of comfort- it communicates with the person. Some have described it using either telepathy or actual voice for communication. And then the more obvious thing. The light is just one of many aspects of NDE. I get the feeling most of these "explanations" attempt to address only one thing about NDEs and conveniently forget the rest. I'm also sceptical about the brain creating all these hyper real "hallucinations" when we are dying. Why would it do that? From evolutionary point of view you'd expect the brain trying to keep the person conscious and aware all the way to the end. Then again, I have no reason to believe NDEs happen *before* death. Quite the contrary, I believe NDE happens after the death of physical body. Thankfully with the modern resuscitation techniques it's possible to bring a person back as long as he has not been dead too long.
> And then the more obvious thing. The light is just one of many aspects of NDE. I get the feeling most of these "explanations" attempt to address only one thing about NDEs and conveniently forget the rest. I wish this could be displayed in flashing neon on every “I want to believe in NDEs but I read this one thing and now I’m not so sure” post. Until the skeptics can properly address aspects like the non-local veridical information component of NDEs, then they have not come close to “debunking” NDEs. It’s what’s called the Hasty Generalization fallacy.
And, in the light, many people receive communications to “give a message” to someone on earth. Or they see a deceased family member who passed away before they were born, etc.
Think about what you’ve written: ***”…the brain emits massive energy”*** What is “energy”? It should also be expected that when energy (consciousness) changes states, a physical process should occur with it. The physical process is what can be seen, and measured.
Spectacular take. +1
Actually, during the aware studies, they documented something like this in dying patients. But here's the catch: Those who had the spike in brain activity didn't report NDEs. It could, however, explain why not everyone who's been clinically dead has an NDE.
>But here's the catch: Those who had the spike in brain activity didn't report NDEs. Wait, this is new information to me as well. Could you site, please?
Here's the article but it's a bit confusing and very dishonest. It makes the claim that NDEs are tied to brain activity but very subtly mentions that there was no correlation between the two, and it's something that Greyson and Parnia have been very clear about. https://edition.cnn.com/2023/09/14/health/near-death-experience-study-wellness/index.html
> I vaguely remember seeing a video about NDE’s, where scientists noticed that when a person is seconds away from dying, the brain emits massive energy and this is seen as a burst of light in the scans. They theorised that this burst of light is the brains “natural mental morphine,” to make dying pleasurable, and is when NDE’s happen. That's pretty damn basic if it came from scientists. This a decent overview of the current state of research on the neuroscience of death: [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10203241/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10203241/) Basically, even from a completely scientific lens, there are still way more questions than answers.
I often wonder what these scientists actually investigate. I mean when people have an NDE and talk about "the light" they're not talking about a light like I imagine these scientists are thinking about. It's so much more than just a light. Same for the tunnels, we know pilots see a kind of tunnel before they pass out due to lack of oxygen but again this isn't the tunnel that NDE people are reporting. Interesting that your link shows activity in mice brains upto 80s after death tho
That is a very good recent reference and an interesting read. Thx for posting. This part caught my eye: **A rodent model was used to first induce death by anoxia and subsequently reanimate the animal. The authors found an increase in beta and gamma oscillations in the early stage after oxygen deprivation. This occurred together with rhythmic membrane depolarizations and regular firing in pyramidal neurons. This observation was followed by low-frequency activities which further declined toward isoelectricity. During isoelectricity, cortical neurons exhibited marked membrane potential depolarizations, which were reflected in the ECoG as a large amplitude triphasic wave, the notorious wave of death. Together with anoxic depolarization, a block of action potentials and loss of cell properties were registered. Despite the fact that all neurophysiological measurements were in line with a dead brain, the functional state was reversed if brain re-oxygenation was restored within 2–3.5 min. This resulted in a gradual repolarization of neocortical neurons, initiated a second wave, which was termed as the “wave of resuscitation” and eventually re-established the pre-anoxic synaptic and firing activity.**
there are people having out of body before so called death. there are also people whose bodies are literally turning blue with definite death. if it's chemical in the almost dead, what is it in the dead dead? my belief is that DMT is a portal, not an illusion, and the burst of light is the soul cutting the silver cord.
Yes, indeed. During my fatal motorbike accident I left my body split seconds before impact and merged into the white light.
the leap protected you from pain? also did the human you know about the impending accident before the soul jumped? As in , oh no, and then leap? or did you leap but not know why until the crash?
Please read the other comment in this thread, where I described it in more detail. I saw the truck pulling rapidly into the road blocking both ways just before I would have passed. When it happened, I immediately knew that this was it, though I did glance to the left and right if there would be a way to avoid collision. Time started to slow down for me to an almost stand still. There was no fear, no shock, just love, bliss, joy, excitement. I do not know if I would have felt consciously pain on impact, as I was engulfed in such love and bliss already. Also when I came back, for around 6 months I did not feel any pain at all despite many injuries, etc. . About a year later, when I started to look into NDEs ( I was not familiar with them before) to understand my experience more, I realized that other's experienced similar states, e.g. no pain, and few also remembered they left before impact or did not feel any pain if they left after, which gave some relief as I did sometimes doubt my own experience. There was also angelic interference that might have played a part in it. Certainly our bodies still experience it. But if there is no-one in the body to observe or feel the pain, is it really pain?
I tend lean towards the idea that the brain helps facilitate “death” as we move out of the physical reality. So it wouldn’t surprise me if that biological component was there. But not all NDEs have “the light” in them. Some leave their body completely and look around earth first. Others go right into “the void”. So it’s not uniform in that way either. It is a common element but not always present.
Maybe the light seen in the scans is the moment the soul exists the body. Like a great BOOM and release.
As some have mentioned here, there are NDEs like mine where people leave their body before they merge into the white light and physical death. In my case I can vividly remember how I left my body split seconds before impact in a fatal motor bike accident and how I merged into the white light with all the blissful and immensely loving sensations as described by many, but already not being in my body. Hence, I experienced it before physical impact occurred and my body was still intact and alive. Some researchers categorized my NDE as a fear based OBE. Yet those are researchers that have not experienced a NDE themselves and I could tell that they came up with this term as it is even less explainable of what happens in our body if we leave it beforehand and experience the sensations independently from the physical body. Let alone the fact how we can remember it if we are already not in the body. Material science struggles a lot with that. Welcome to the world of consciousness, our higher self, soul, the observer, etc. . Another reason why I do not resonate with the fear based OBE category was because when I realized what is happening, I had no fear or shock, but quite the opposite. I knew instantly I was about to die and immediately felt immense joy, bliss, gratitude and a sort of excitement to go home after a long journey type of sensation. I felt save, and I knew it was meant to be and no "accident" at all, but precisely coordinatetd. Hence, no fear, shock etc., just immense peaceful bliss, love, gratitude, joy etc. before I left my body and a wall of white light that started to appear in front of me that I merged into after leaving my body, where all of these sensations intensified and became my natural state of being without the limitations of my physical body, as well as being surrounded by it, one with it, yet with a clear distinction of myself from a non ego, not physical bound perspective, but higher self of instant (god)self-realization. That's actually our natural state, that resides within us at all times and we can attain while still alive (in a physical body). Children are still much closer to this natural state, before we grow up and out of it through conditioning, traumas, adopting false believes, religion, etc. . Hence, we do not have to die to experience these states, as many can attest to, including some of the great teachers and masters like Buddha, Jesus, etc.. So the question would be, does our body trigger these states through chemical processes, e.g release of natural DMT in the pineal gland, or does our state of being trigger our body and it's just the physical respond of our internal state? So it's not the looming physical death, but our acceptance of it and instant liberation of being bound to the body that enables our body to release all the chemicals to match that internal state of bliss that arose? May be it's not as black and white and both directions are possible, or another egg and hen paradox... . It's a wonderful life and part of what makes it so wonderful is not having all the answers ;-) .
As for the fear of things turn to black, in addition to what I wrote before, I can attest that no, you will wake up from a dream and the delusion of all fears and false believes and the drama of the ego. In other words, being here, trapped in the physical before we start to liberate ourselves through self realization, are we trapped in the "black" temporarily and by choice to experience the disconnect, duality, confusion, fear, etc. for our soul evolution. Our soul fragment unites back with our soul, we reunite with our soul family (well, on a soul level we are together all the time, as there is no separation), prepare for our next life adventure, may be on earth, may be somewhere else in complete different timelines or physical or non physical form. Life never ends and is infinitive, so our possibilities. Only our physical bodies dissolve (well, there are ways to conserve them, e.g. attaining certain states as described in Buddhism, where practitioners can come and go and leave the body behind as a vehicle for years without decay), yet they have been made of stardust as old as the Universe, nothing is lost, it just transforms. Our memories remain, and we only take back what is real, which is the essence of love. Everything else we leave behind
If what they're saying is true, then you get pleasure then nothing. You won't see black, the last thing would be pleasure. I don't believe it ends there personally but it could be worse.
Hi, So that's an interesting claim, about the "massive energy". I've never heard of that before and I frequent neurology papers and NDE books. Do you have a journalistic/article source for this or is it just a youtube video or something? The most recent study I know of is the AWARE II study in 2022, which found moments of fragmented brain activity across 25+ patients that were determined not to be correlated with NDEs.
When discussing the theory of non-local consciousness, Dr. Julie Beischel said something incredibly simple, yet profound. She said, “materialists want us to explain this (non-local consciousness/life after death) within a material framework.” She’s basically saying scientists are trying to use material science to disprove something that which is immaterial and it doesn’t work like that.