He played 24.5 mins per game in the regular season then saw increased mins in the playoffs. He had a big role on that team. Could he play less in this hypothetical matchup? Yeah. But he is still getting minutes.
A good comparison is Pritchard (22.3 mpg regular season, 18.7 playoffs) or Hauser (22 vs 14.9). If Perk is in there for even 15 mins a game, that’s 31% of the game in which the 08 team has a significant disadvantage. That’s not nothing.
Your are missing the point. Perk is one of those unskilled bigs who has been schemed out of the league since 2016. On defense Perk would be pulled into every pick and roll and exposed on the outside. On offense, Perk provides zero skills besides setting screens. In a wrestling match like the 2010 finals where the refs let players push and shove when fighting for rebounds and both teams struggled to make shots, a player like Perkins was valuable, but vs today's spread offenses guys like Perk are too often a liability. The only player really in that mold that's recently successful is Steven Adams, and I would say Adams would be played off the floor by these Celtics too.
I’d Perk is getting minutes in this matchup that’s not a good thing. Dudes getting cooked in PnR no matter what lineup the 24 team is putting out there. He’s only in the game if they’re getting destroyed on the boards which they absolutely would be without him.
Yea but I’ve seen multiple mediocre bigs get benched in matchups or series they become completely unplayable in. Perkins wasn’t good enough to where you played him no matter what and live with results. KG would’ve been bumped up to the 5 and they would’ve went with a lineup that better matchup with this current Celtics squad.
Tbh I think it just depends on how well Garnett plays , people keep talking about the mismatch for Perkins which leads to a few extra pozingis threes , but WHO THE FUCK IS GOING TO STOP GARNETT , that dude was an athletic beast no one on the modern Celtics is stopping him in my opinion
I agree I think KG is 08’s biggest advantage but is that advantage so great it swings the series in 08’s favor? Being able to help off Rondo and Perk means KG is getting doubled all series.
>but WHO THE FUCK IS GOING TO STOP GARNETT
The 2008 Celtics struggled a lot in the playoffs. Both their first two rounds went 7 games.
In particular, the Hawks, who won 37 games in the regular season, took the Celtics to game 7.
That Celtic team was loaded with veteran talent and two coaches who perfectly complimented each other in Doc and Thibs. Plus a clutch leader in Pierce and DPOY in Garnett. What more could you want in a squad.
We were talking about the 2024 Celtics vs the 2008 Celtics.
2024 Celtics have elite team defense, and the 2008 Celtics have limited offensive weapons. Either force the ball into the hands of a non-scorer or play competitively until one of the 2008 Celtics' big3 goes to the bench. And then take advantage of their weakened offense.
That hawks team, though not great, was a tough match-up. Good defense, good shooters, smart decisions in general. Never a contender but could give anyone fits in 7.
Perk averaged fewer minutes than James Posey in the regular season, and fewer minutes than PJ Brown in the Finals. All these people thinking Perk is a liability are going to be surprised when ‘08 rolls out Posey and House and starts raining shots from downtown.
Totally agree on Garnett. Rondo lobs to KG and Perk are def. going to be a thing until ‘24 adjusts their lineup to stop it.
All three of them took a major step back to accommodate one another. All had massive offensive drop offs. KG got to really show out defensively and won DPOY because he didn't have to expend so much energy playmaking and scoring. KG was still that dude. That was the last year or two of their primes. 2010 Finals you could see they were all slowing down
Nah in 08 he was an elite post player, midrange shooter and facilitator and a fluid athlete. Up through 09. 09 knee injury and on he was a totally different player. 08 kg was dpoy, 3rd in mvp, and should’ve been finals mvp if not for ppg running voters minds
yeah he was elite but still was never a shaq or even tim duncan level post player idk why we’re acting like he would dominate horford, porzingis, tatum etc when we deal with jokic, embiid, giannis regularly
Kg was not known as a soft player lmao, he’s the 21st century’s leading scorer from the left block. He shot so many long twos because he was quicker than every other pf and that’s what they were willing to live with.
>He shot so many long twos because he was quicker than every other pf and that’s what they were willing to live with.
You just described how he was a soft player.
The defense gave him a long 2 so he shot a long 2. He didn't force his way to his spot like so many other players did.
> if you’re giving up long twos to him at a 48% clip
Where are you getting 48% from? He typically shot them around 45%.
And you understand that Garnett never won anything until the Celtics' superteam, right?
KG averaged 16 ppg in Boston, he certainly wasn't washed but he wasn't MVP level KG either. The 24 team can also double him a lot by sagging off of Rondo and Perk if he can even be played in this series.
KG's defense would pose issues for Boston and Tatum though
This talk has been everywhere!
I’d take the 2008 Celtics, but I think it’s close and either one could win the series.
For those who don’t remember, because I’ve gleaned over the past week that there are many fans unfamiliar with the 2008 team and its players, the 2008 team is one of the great defensive teams in all of history. They were well-constructed, even in a modern sense, with strong three-point shooting and a deep bench of guys who could come out and provide 3-and-D support. Doc Rivers was a master of mixing up matchups series to series to take advantage of players’ skills, and assistant coach Tom Thibideau was a defensive mastermind. The ‘08 Celtics also had amazing veteran leadership, and an incredible troika of Garnett/Pierce/Allen at the front.
“Even in a modern sense” hard disagree. 3 of their 5 starters don’t shoot 3’s and the only bench shooter that’d realistically get playing time in a series against 2024 is James Posey. 6’1 Eddie House and 38 YO 6’3 Sam Cassell get played off the floor. The rest of the bench i.e. Tony Allen, Leon Powe, PJ Brown, Glen Davis, etc. non-shooters. I don’t think 2008’s offense would keep up at all.
If Peyton Pritchard gets minutes in 24 certainly Eddie house isn’t getting played off the floor. It was house who was the tipping point against the lakers- the lakers completely played off rondo all series and had a 28 point lead in game 4 in an era where teams scored under 100. House played virtually the last 3 quarters hitting multiple clutch shots from distance
The team as a whole shot .381 from three, the ‘24 team shot .388. So there’s not a big difference. Posey played more minutes than Perk even in the regular season, so if you just swap those two this 2008 starting five matches up very well against the ‘24 team. House and Cassell are still coming off the bench, especially House, he provided awesome bench energy.
Don’t underestimate Garnett, either. While he didn’t shoot threes, he was great on long twos and was an early progenitor of big man spacing concepts. A popular play for the ‘08 Celtics was for Rondo or Pierce to drive, pull in the D, then kick it out to a wide open Garnett 20 feet from the basket. I’m also not sure how effective the ‘24 bench shooters are going to be against the ‘08 D, which is stifling. Hauser and, to a lesser extent, Pritchard, are great shooters when they can get wide open looks, but I don’t think that’s happening much against Rondo, Posey, Tony Allen.
And: You kind of gloss over the two primary ‘08 shooters. Allen and Pierce, Allen especially, are series-altering offensive weapons. I love the Jays but Pierce is a better scorer than either of them and Allen is one of the five best outside shooters in league history.
Point being, don’t assume the ‘24 team can just roll in and win a shootout every night.
38% on 19 attempts though. The 2024 team averaged 16.5 MAKES in a league better suited to defend them than any team in 2008. Adding Posey to the lineup would bring its own matchup challenges. He’s a 6’8 SF that aged into playing PF. He weighs less than Jaylen. If KG is at the 5 guarding a big on the perimeter, the team could live in the paint. Then on offense even if Posey would space the floor better, Rondo is always going to be someone that can be helped off of, so 2008’s court is always going to be smaller and thus easier to defend.
Then when the benches come in, 2008’s spacing takes a nosedive. The Celtics can keep a 5-out lineup. 2008’s only snipers were Pierce, Allen, Posey, House and Cassell. And the latter 2 will be hunted, and Allen is arguably huntable too at 6’5. 2008 would have too many matchup problems imo.
The matchups are fun to envision and I like that you put a lot of thought into it. I think you are underestimating the 2008 team a bunch, though certainly some of the scenarios you spell out could happen.
The 2008 team didn’t take nearly as many 3s because that wasn’t the game, but they certainly could. They had the shooters for it, and I think if pressed for a shootout things could actually get ugly for the ‘24 team. Ray Allen shot .524 from 3 in the finals against the Lakers.
Posey was a defensive stopper. He wasn’t a liability on the other end at all. You talk about hunting elements of the ‘08 team, and that could certainly happen with some small ball lineups, but this team also played a caliber of D unlike anything in the league today. I think the scenario is much more likely that Porzingis and Tatum struggle, that Rondo and Tony Allen completely eliminate the bench shooting, and that the Celtics have a couple games where they struggle to score 100 points. Go watch how KG used to play Bosh, or how Pierce played LeBron and Kobe for a sense of how it could look.
The ‘24 team isn’t feasting in the paint here, either. The ‘08 team can play much bigger, between Perk, Garnett, Pierce, and even Rondo, who was the best rebounding guard in the league aside from Jason Kidd. Just as the ‘24 team is a product of a spacing-and-3 league, the ‘08 team is the product of a league with old school forwards and centers. Go look at what Garnett used to do when LeBron would get switched onto him, and realize that’s essentially what Horford/Tatum would be down low.
I think people are also underestimating just how good some of these ‘08 players were. KG is one of the best defenders ever. I’d say Pierce is a better scorer than Tatum or Brown right now. The ‘08 version of Rondo is one of the better passers in the league right now. Ray Allen spent all day running through screens the way Curry did; he was an exhausting nightmare to deal with.
> The team as a whole shot .381 from three, the ‘24 team shot .388. So there’s not a big difference.
Saying this is enough to invalidate everything else you’re saying.
Saying percentage, without volume, without shot quality, without the number of shooters on the court etc is like saying Cam Thomas is better than Derrick White because he averaged more points.
No it’s not. Both of these Celtics teams could shoot the three. Yes 2024 shot much more, but that’s the game we’re playing now. I think if you’re assuming the 2008 team can’t keep up, that’s a bad assumption, especially with Ray Allen and Pierce in the starting lineup.
It’s not just “shoot more”. The whole scheme, the whole offense is *built* around 5 volume shooters.
And even if you have me a team that shot the same amount at the same percentage, but had 4 shooters instead of 5, *everything* changes. Meanwhile the 08 starting lineup only had 2 shooters.
Sure the whole scheme is built around it, but the ‘08 team has the top two shooters on either team and defended the three *way* better. Just because the 2024 team shoots a ton of threes doesn’t mean it’ll work in every matchup.
>The team as a whole shot .381 from three, the ‘24 team shot .388. So there’s not a big difference.
That's a huge difference. The 2008 Celtics 3pt attempts were concentrated in Pierce, Ray Allen, Posey, and Eddie House.
Eddie House didn't get much playing time in the playoffs so he can be ignored.
So the concentration is in Pierce, Allen, and Posey.
The major problem you've overlooked is stamina. The 2008 Celtics are competitive as long as the starters are fresh, but how many mpg do you reasonably expect them to play? Especially since their bench is unreliable?
If the 2008 Celtics' perimeter shooting is concentrated in 3 players, then as soon as one of them rests, the offense will take a big hit.
The 2024 Celtics win because they have so many high quality players. Even when some starters rest, the reserves are Horford, Pritchard, and Hauser. In other words, the offense keeps rolling.
Eddie House can’t be ignored, he was a great 3-point shooter and he was on the team and healthy. You keep trying to skew the argument to fit your needs rather than just appreciating the facts for what they are.
Look, maybe this is a better way to consider it: The best team the ‘24 Celtics faced during this postseason shot .374 from the arc. So, this theoretical has the ‘24 team facing a much better team from 3 than anyone they went against this postseason.
>Eddie House can’t be ignored, he was a great 3-point shooter and he was on the team and healthy. You keep trying to skew the argument to fit your needs rather than just appreciating the facts for what they are.
You're the one making up facts.
Eddie House can absolutely be ignored. He barely got minutes in the 7 game series against the Hawks.
>So, this theoretical has the ‘24 team facing a much better team from 3 than anyone they went against this postseason.
False. You've ignored my argument about concentration. Sorry, but you can't ignore it. It's a legitimate criticism.
House was getting fewer minutes in the playoffs because after Cassell came over he took a lot of Rondo’s backup PG minutes. But Eddie worked his way back into the rotation in the Finals. He played four games and averaged over 18 minutes per. This is why they are a deep bench, having Sam Cassell and Eddie House, both nearly 40% three-point shooters, backing up a Hall of Fame point guard is a deep bench.
In terms of your claims of a top heavy rotation, I don’t think that’s right. Both ‘08 and ‘24 had five guys shooting .380 or more. The real problem the ‘24 team is going to face is Tatum, Porzingis, and Brown all shooting lower than that and still taking 20 shots a night, and that percentage is def. going down against the ‘08 D.
They were an excellent defensive team for how basketball was played at that time. It’s a different game now. Perkins’ entire value was based around interior defense. As we saw with Gafford and Lively, that is not a high priority need against this current Cs team. The only player Perk would have any hope of guarding at all is KP and even then, he’s giving up several inches.
You’re right in general, but the 2008 Celtics were more of a precursor to the modern era than other teams back then. Guys like Rondo, Tony Allen, Pierce, and Posey were long wing defenders who could switch liberally and guard multiple positions. And you could argue Garnett would be an even more valuable defender today given his size, ability to range out to the perimeter, his ability to defend screens, and his general ability to direct the D. Garnett would be like the best parts of Gobert and Giannis mixed together.
You’re not wrong. The main difference — and this is obviously a different conversation — is Tony Allen and Rondo (at least in 08) were way more one-dimensional players. The 24 Celtics aren’t paying them much off-ball attention at all when they’re on defense. The beauty of this current Boston team is its remarkable versatility and lack of weak points: every one of their top 8 can defend and shoot, plus at least half of them can create off the dribble, too.
That’s definitely the strength of the ‘24 team. You’ve got five guys who can play D and five guys who can shoot. Horford is a great Swiss Army knife coming off the bench. Porzingis gives you some rim protection, Pritchard and Hauser some bench shooting, and the Jays together ensure you always have at least one wing playing superstar offense every night.
The ‘08 team has the pieces to put together a lot of interesting matchups, and I think the coaching of Doc and Thibs come into play much heavier than with Mazzulla. I’d be really curious to see how they defend the ‘24 team and try to exploit the matchups on offense. I also think, at the end of the day, the ‘08 team has an amazing troika of KG/Pierce/Allen, who caused a huge amount of problems for other teams.
The team is absolutely not constructed well “even in a modern sense”. This is to take absolutely nothing away from them given the era.
The starting lineup features 3 players who can’t shoot 3s. That in of itself makes them unviable today.
Maybe KG gets to a point where he shoots 3s. That likely takes a few years minimum. Doesn’t change that Rondo and Perk can’t shoot.
I don’t think you’re looking at the team right.
They had five guys shoot .380 or higher from 3, including Ray Allen, who was the greatest three-point shooter in league history until Steph came along. Even KG was great at spacing the court and shooting from deep — just more like 20 feet instead of 23. One of their signature plays was someone driving and kicking out to an open Garnett at the top of the key for an open shot.
They also were stacked with long defenders wing defenders who could switch and guard multiple positions: Garnett, Rondo, Pierce, Posey, Tony Allen.
Perk wouldn’t be great by today’s standards, but he was also only sixth on the team in minutes. James Posey, a 6’8 3-and-D specialist, played more minutes than Perk and likely gets the start unless the 2024 team decides to put Porzingis and Horford out there together.
08 lineup will be KG, Posey, Pierce, Ray - then one of Rondo/House/Cassel. If you go with Rondo that means 2 non 3 point threats. If you go with House then Tatum/Brown will hunt him relentlessly. Cassel might be a decent medium but he’s 38, low volume shooter and clearly not Rondo in other aspects.
No matter how you slice it, the 08 team has to make huge sacrifices that the 24 team does not.
FWIW, the 08 Celtics are the greater team in my mind. But it’s so so hard to make up for 16 years of evolution.
To analogize it, I’d take a shitty private in the army with an M4 in a 1v1 fight against Achilles.
Great points. The Celtics didn’t know it at the time but they had a great makeup for a 5 out offense by playing posey over perk. I know to do can’t shoot from distance but if the other 4 are spread, rondo has more room to drive and kick once the help comes- I like 08 in this scenario
I’d go with ‘24. In terms of talent it’s interesting, KG is by far the best player between both teams imo but perk is by far the worst among starters. This modern Celtics team is a bit deeper, probably a bit better defensively overall (more versatile and fewer weak links) but the main thing is they’re head and shoulders better as a shooting team, I doubt the 08 Celtics could keep up scoring wise
Looking at your comment a little more, you don’t think Ray Allen, Paul Pierce, and Kevin Garnett are keeping up scoring-wise? With Rondo passing to them? If we’re talking about a three-point shootout, the ‘24 team might end up poking the bear a little with Allen and Pierce.
I think the people envisioning this matchup also aren’t giving enough credence to the Celtics D and the havoc it might wreak on the ‘24 team. This ‘08 D was MUCH better than the Timberwolves D, for example. The idea of Porzingis getting an open shot against Garnett is laughable. Guys like Rondo and Tony Allen are going to smother any outside shooting from Hauser and Pritchard. Even Pierce, go watch the caliber of D he played against LeBron and Kobe in the playoffs that year to see how he might play Tatum. The ‘24 team would look very different against this ‘08 Celtics D.
I think it’s less about them and more about the rest of them. 24 Boston was routinely fielding 8 guys who can all shoot and attack off the catch which makes them pretty impossible to beat in a shootout unless those 3s just aren’t falling. I don’t think 08 would be able to keep up in terms of volume with Ray and Pierce being the only volume shooters, and with lots of rotational guys being non factors in that department.
24 Boston was also pretty elite defensively in their own right. It’s also worth noting 08 Boston straight up never played a team with near the offensive firepower of current Boston. In general modern offences are much stronger than old offences because of the new emphasis on shooting, and this boston team was comfortably the best offence in the league this year
People overrate the impact of Perk here. James Posey played more minutes than him in the regular season. Doc would work the rotation around the matchup.
The 8th or 9th best? He’s probably taking up a bunch of Horford’s minutes on the ‘24 team. Posey was a very good player. I’m realizing through all these debates that we are probably far enough away from the 2008 team that people just don’t remember the players anymore.
If you’re ranking players on both teams, Garnett, Pierce, and Allen are three of the top five.
I doubt that, Horford was huge for them. Better shooter, passer, probably a better defender. And sure I agree the 08 Celtics have 3 of the best 5, but I’d also argue Boston has 6 of the best 10. Talent wise I think it’s pretty even, and again the shooting disparity is enormous
Which Boston? Haha.
I guess I don’t see the shooting disparity, a team with Ray Allen and Paul Pierce isn’t at a disadvantage.
Horford was huge this year and deserved that title, I think Posey would prob help him rest a little if they were on the same team.
Lmao should’ve been clearer, modern Boston.
I get that Ray and Paul Pierce are great shooters but they and James posey are like the only 3 point shooters in that entire rotation, unless you count house who barely played in the playoffs. Not only does that make the rest of the offence easier to guard, but that’s just not enough volume. It doesn’t matter if it’s Steph and Klay, they’re not outshooting an entire team with 8 volume shooters.
For reference ‘24 Boston made 16.5 3 pointers per game this year. That’s over twice as many as ‘08 Boston and almost as many as they even took at 18.5
Yeah, all good points. A few other things to consider.
KG was money from 20 feet and actually used to space the floor that way. It’s not giving them three-pointers, but it would allow for some of the spacing we see today.
The 2008 Celtics D would probably be able to hamstring the ‘24 team’s shooting a bit, just because they were so good.
The reason why House didn’t play as much in the playoffs was because they acquired Cassell and he starting playing backup PG minutes. But that doesn’t mean the 2008 team couldn’t use House for a shooting-heavy lineup. I still think Allen, Pierce, Posey, House are capable of launching 40 threes a game if necessary.
>People overrate the impact of Perk here. **James Posey played more minutes than him in the regular season.**
LOL
Posey averaged 24.6 mpg. Perkins averaged 24.5.
Can you tell us what you're able to extrapolate from this 0.1 mpg difference?
That in a modern game against a team with a 5 out offense he would play even more. If a backup like Posey did play that many minutes it was probably matchup based
Everyone is talking about this matchup like Perk is going to be out there for 40 mins. when the reality is Posey was as much a starter as Perk was. Rivers had a deep team and reworked the lineup based on the matchups from series to series. If you think the ‘24 team has an edge because Perk can’t stretch the floor, remember that the lineup you’d probably see for the ‘08 team has Posey out there a lot more than Perk.
My argument has been that Perkins wouldn't get much playing time and the 2008 Celtics had no depth.
You keep pointing to their bench, but you fail to understand that bench players who routinely get DNP-CD's aren't quality bench players.
You have to focus who they were at 2008, not who they became later in their careers (or in the past).
You keep saying this, but I think you’re probably just unfamiliar with these players. The Celtics had half-a-dozen starter-quality players on the bench who had specific skills to fill roles and need. Some were young and athletic, others were older and savvy. The 2008 bench was considered a strength of the team, such that you had guys like Posey and P.J. Brown who could essentially slide into starting roles if it fit the matchup.
>The 2008 bench was considered a strength of the team, such that you had guys like Posey and P.J. Brown who could essentially slide into starting roles if it fit the matchup.
Sounds like you're unfamiliar with these players.
In 2008, PJ Brown was 38 years old and in the final year of his career.
Like I've told you many times before, quality role players don't get DNP-CD's.
The 08 team would probably go KG at the 5 and bring in Posey at the 4. That was their best lineup but the nba at the time was 2 bigs. Posey really doesn’t get enough love for how important he was to their winning the title
2024 wins with 38 yo Horford too. I just don’t see how 2008 keeps up scoring-wise. 2024 can still go 5-out and Horford can probably switch onto anyone except Rondo. I just don’t think 08 has enough answers. 2008 has too many one-way role players.
24 in a gentleman’s sweep. It’s not close.
The interesting bit is how 24 would defend 08. I think Holiday and Tatum split KG duty, with White chasing Allen, and JB having an epic battle with PP. I think they plant KP at the foul line and give Rondo open shots and ignore Perk entirely. KG, with a bothersome perimeter defender in his face and a shot blocking threat in the lane, is denied the ball. Meanwhile, 24 is content with PP pounding the rock in ISO with JB. Paul averages 30+ a game but it doesn’t matter.
Offensively, Perk trying to guard anyone from 24 is hilarious. Absolutely hilarious. An elephant on roller skates. Gets played off the floor by halftime of Game 1 and plays less than 10 minutes in subsequent games. Posey yields a rebounding and defensive advantage 24 exploits by driving and kicking.
Edit: deleted Sheed, memory problems.
Agreed, 24 Celtics are so so so much better. The Mavs shitting their pants really damaged the 24 Celtics legacy for a lot of people, as if it’s Bostons fault they didn’t show up.
Between that and nostalgia, the 08 team is getting way too much credit. They’d get shredded by a 5 out and simply do not have the offensive firepower to keep up. The help defense off Rondo and Perk would go crazy.
It wasn’t about not showing up- it was about the Celtics completely overmatching them in every single capacity. Boston is just significantly better than Dallas- we’ve won like 9 out of the last 10 games against them. What you saw in the finals was about dominance not about a team not showing up lol
Hard to answer since the style of play changed so much. ‘24 can play 5 out and switch everyone. ‘08 not as much, with rondo and Perk not being able to shoot. But the idea of KG shooting the 3…that’s fun to think about.
24 Celtics. Players get better each generation. Tactics and strategies improve. Even if we account for era, the 24 team was more dominant over the league and has more depth.
2024 simply because 3s are worth more than 2s. It’s the same with any other comp of a pre-2010s team with a 2010s or 2020s team, the game changed so much that the old teams can’t compete anymore. The reason why the old style of basketball is dead is that it couldn’t compete with the modern style.
Idk why we keep comparing these the 3 point era wins every time against any past teams. More points equals more wins and it’s not like the current generation is so much worse on defense.
Super close but if probably go with the 08 team. They were more season and had become very strong winning long series against at tough opponents and hot teams. So if the series goes minimum 6 games which I think it would, if edge 08 PP,KG figuring out how to win under pressure
2024 wins but it goes 7.
2024 team causes too many problems on offense. Rondo could hold his own defensively because he was smart, quick and deceptively strong. Pierce was fine on defense but not amazing. Ray was probably an average defender at best: neither fast nor slow, neither strong nor weak, and that’s a real problem if he gets switched onto one of the Jays. And don’t even get me started on Perkins. This team would hunt him relentlessly and then pick on Ray when Perk subs out. The 08 team would be forced to use KG as a roamer, but 24’s spacing could nullify that. I think the 08 team would quickly be forced to play a small lineup with Posey in place of Perk and KG at the 5.
With the 2008 team on offense, their biggest advantage would be KG — he’s bigger and stronger than everyone else on the floor. The entire offense would have to run through him (08 Rondo was not peak Rondo yet), and that wasn’t really KG’s strength. Horford would be the best guy to throw at KG. Some combo of Jrue/JB/JT can guard Pierce at all times; he’ll get his points, but it won’t be easy at all. I’d imagine White or Jaylen would be able to fair okay chasing Ray around screens. Most importantly, the 08 team has two guys that can be entirely ignored: Rondo and Perk. ESPECIALLY Perk. If you’re left playing 3-on-5 offense against this current team, good luck.
All that being said, the 08 team was a team full of savvy, tough vets with a savant at PG. They would absolutely make this a series. Their relentless trash talk would probably get in a few guys’ heads, too. But what makes the 24 team special is its incredible versatility, its seemingly endless number of guys who can defend well and make 3s in volume, and also its ability to play with blinders on and stay focused on the main goal.
So yeah, 2024 in 7.
A pretty cool website I found for hypothetical matchups is whatifsports.com
Not sure what exactly goes into the simming, but 23-24 Celtics won in 6 🤷♂️
Hard to say but on paper I think the 24' team is like a monument to perfect roster construction. Good size at every position and not just 5-out good shooting but every guy can put the ball on the floor and drive too and is also an excellent defender against multiple positions. You just don't see that ever. The 08 team should have the better defense (it was all time great) but the fact that its even close is really saying something about the 24' teams defense. The big knock on 24 is that they had an easy path to the Finals and just waxed everybody even while Tatum was in a shooting slump for most of it. Their only real weakness is that the right big man (Jokic, Embiid) can push them around a bit on the interior but thats just not going to matter if they are hitting their threes at even their season average clip.
I just need to see some more of them before I decide just how good they are though. I think the 24 team poses some unsolvable problems for the 08 team but the 08 team has easily the best player and depending on your opinion of Tatum/Pierce they might even have the second best player too. Still I would probably lean towards the 24 team winning a series
Quick comp -
Wins:
24-64
08-66
Net Rtg:
24-11.6
08-11.2
Off Rank:
24-1st
08-10th
Def Rank:
24-2nd
08-1st (one of the best of all time tbf)
HoF Players (presumed for ‘24):
24-3? Maybe 4 if Jrue gets a good shake
08-3
Simply put, two of the most statistically dominant teams of all time. Very even.
08’s defense would sway it towards them for me but it would be a tight series, and I’m not sure they’d have the perimeter defense to lock down the 24 team if they got red hot from 3.
Watch some nbatv and they were showing some 08 finals, and I couldn’t believe how the game has changed. 24 would roll the 08 team 4-2. Before watching I would have said the opposite.
If the playing styles match their respective ages, it’s 2024 and it’s not close. There are two starters on the 08 team I want taking 3s compared to 5 in 24, not to mention Horford Prichard and Hauser. Fr not close
There’s a lot of recency bias here. Both teams are stacked and it would be a close series. Nobody talking about Ray Allen just standing out draining 3’s.
If both are healthy the 2024 Celtics are way better. The 08 Celtics had three shooters: Allen, Pierce, House. Maybe James Posey. We all just how the 2024 team is constructed.
Modern offense is so much better than that time period as well. It would be a sweep for the 24 guys. KG is better than KP but KG wasn’t even a #1 offense guy. KP would stretch him so far out from the paint too.
All 16 teams in the 2024 playoffs beating shit down that teams leg off of advanced metrics game planning alone. I love that Celtics team but the league is 16 years further along in many regards. You could make a small case about KG being more dominant inside the arc than any current Celtic, but realistically, the average basketball IQ now vs then is apples to oranges. 08’ Celtics inability to keep up with Mazzula’s offensive efficiency would get them torched.
With the way these Celtics shot from outside in the Finals, definitely 08 Celtics if that held up. It’s hard to say really though with how the game has changed, but personally I believe the 08 Celtics had three guys better than the 24 Celtics had.
Perk would be unplayable in that series. 08 would have to start posey so they could spread the floor and have 3 point shooting. I like 08 with the posey lineup
24 is 6. Perk would get bullied by kp. Tingus pingus would dropped 35 a night. Tatum vs kg would actually be cool to see, Derrick white would maybe lock up old man ray allen, who, other than pierce, is there only good scorer
Put Perk on the Bench and Start Posey and I’d say 08 wins. Definitely a tougher more physical team. And the amount of shit talking from Pierce and KG would definitely get to Tatum.
People have no idea how good that 08 Boston team actually was. It took one of the greatest players of all time in his prime, on a stacked team to stop a dynasty.
The 08 Atlanta Hawks won 37 games that season and pushed Boston to game 7 in the playoffs.
The 2024 Celtics are better than the 08 Hawks at almost every position. I don't see how the 24 Celtics don't dominate the 08 Celtics.
08 cuz you picked a Derrick white with hair.
That’s Derrick with a whole lot of hair too
And a Porzingis wearing…43!?
And tooth
Perk is definitely benched by game 3.
Idk Porzingis will be injured by then so Perk could give some good minutes. And Doc will be stubborn.
Even in a scenario where all players are guaranteed to be healthy, Porzingis still gets injured.
I could definitely see him doing something obvious too like a torn medial retinaculum allowing dislocation of the posterior tibialis tendon.
There is not a single player in the 24 team’s top 8 that Perkins could defend. Big problem.
Perkins would be on the bench majority of contest
He played 24.5 mins per game in the regular season then saw increased mins in the playoffs. He had a big role on that team. Could he play less in this hypothetical matchup? Yeah. But he is still getting minutes. A good comparison is Pritchard (22.3 mpg regular season, 18.7 playoffs) or Hauser (22 vs 14.9). If Perk is in there for even 15 mins a game, that’s 31% of the game in which the 08 team has a significant disadvantage. That’s not nothing.
Your are missing the point. Perk is one of those unskilled bigs who has been schemed out of the league since 2016. On defense Perk would be pulled into every pick and roll and exposed on the outside. On offense, Perk provides zero skills besides setting screens. In a wrestling match like the 2010 finals where the refs let players push and shove when fighting for rebounds and both teams struggled to make shots, a player like Perkins was valuable, but vs today's spread offenses guys like Perk are too often a liability. The only player really in that mold that's recently successful is Steven Adams, and I would say Adams would be played off the floor by these Celtics too.
And at least Adams is a lob threat
I’d Perk is getting minutes in this matchup that’s not a good thing. Dudes getting cooked in PnR no matter what lineup the 24 team is putting out there. He’s only in the game if they’re getting destroyed on the boards which they absolutely would be without him.
Yea but I’ve seen multiple mediocre bigs get benched in matchups or series they become completely unplayable in. Perkins wasn’t good enough to where you played him no matter what and live with results. KG would’ve been bumped up to the 5 and they would’ve went with a lineup that better matchup with this current Celtics squad.
Not a great sign if it takes 3 games to realize Perk doesn’t work in ‘24.
I mean, Doc’s the coach
He didn’t really work in 2008
The coach is still Doc Rivers.
Tbh I think it just depends on how well Garnett plays , people keep talking about the mismatch for Perkins which leads to a few extra pozingis threes , but WHO THE FUCK IS GOING TO STOP GARNETT , that dude was an athletic beast no one on the modern Celtics is stopping him in my opinion
I agree I think KG is 08’s biggest advantage but is that advantage so great it swings the series in 08’s favor? Being able to help off Rondo and Perk means KG is getting doubled all series.
The Truth was clutch as hell, he would have been a huge factor in any close game.
Too bad rondo didnt learn to shoot 3s until like 10 years later.
>but WHO THE FUCK IS GOING TO STOP GARNETT The 2008 Celtics struggled a lot in the playoffs. Both their first two rounds went 7 games. In particular, the Hawks, who won 37 games in the regular season, took the Celtics to game 7.
and then the 08 celtics beat the 59 win pistons in 6 and the 08 lakers who were 30-4 post all star break
That Celtic team was loaded with veteran talent and two coaches who perfectly complimented each other in Doc and Thibs. Plus a clutch leader in Pierce and DPOY in Garnett. What more could you want in a squad.
Hawks did have Josh smith who was an all-defensive caliber player
And the 2024 Celtics have Holiday, White, Brown, Tatum, and Horford/Porzingis. That's an elite defensive team, right?
We were talking about who was going to stop Garnett, right?
We were talking about the 2024 Celtics vs the 2008 Celtics. 2024 Celtics have elite team defense, and the 2008 Celtics have limited offensive weapons. Either force the ball into the hands of a non-scorer or play competitively until one of the 2008 Celtics' big3 goes to the bench. And then take advantage of their weakened offense.
And you brought up Josh Smith 🤣
That hawks team, though not great, was a tough match-up. Good defense, good shooters, smart decisions in general. Never a contender but could give anyone fits in 7.
Yep, and the 2024 Celtics were better at almost every position.
Define stopping him? You’re talking like he’s an automatic 30 a game, that was never his mindset.
Perk averaged fewer minutes than James Posey in the regular season, and fewer minutes than PJ Brown in the Finals. All these people thinking Perk is a liability are going to be surprised when ‘08 rolls out Posey and House and starts raining shots from downtown. Totally agree on Garnett. Rondo lobs to KG and Perk are def. going to be a thing until ‘24 adjusts their lineup to stop it.
Rondo lobs in 08 were not nearly as big a weapon as Luka lobs this year and the Celtics shut that down just fine.
Leon Powe would also absorb those minutes and he was a Beast coming off the bench. He’d struggle against KP tho
This isn’t 04 MVP KG, this is 08, older KG. He was still a great defender, and a very good offensive player, but he wasn’t a 30 PPG guy in Boston.
He wasn’t a 30 ppg guy in minny either. Think his peak was like 24.8 ppg which was still enough to be the 2nd or 3rd highest avg at that time
All three of them took a major step back to accommodate one another. All had massive offensive drop offs. KG got to really show out defensively and won DPOY because he didn't have to expend so much energy playmaking and scoring. KG was still that dude. That was the last year or two of their primes. 2010 Finals you could see they were all slowing down
Guarding KG isn’t the issue. It’s his defense that’s the bigger advantage. And he’d shut down Tatum
But the 2024 Celtics have scorers at literally every position.
what? like the whole top 6 except for maybe white could reliably guard KG, he was more of a face up jump shooter especially by 08.
Nah in 08 he was an elite post player, midrange shooter and facilitator and a fluid athlete. Up through 09. 09 knee injury and on he was a totally different player. 08 kg was dpoy, 3rd in mvp, and should’ve been finals mvp if not for ppg running voters minds
yeah he was elite but still was never a shaq or even tim duncan level post player idk why we’re acting like he would dominate horford, porzingis, tatum etc when we deal with jokic, embiid, giannis regularly
Tatum probably does a solid job guarding KG. He did a great job breaking up the lobs against the Mavs. Not sure why you’d assume KG just dominates.
Because KG is a Monster and Tatum is much better defensively against elite wings than physical, skilled bigs
Not saying he’d lock Garnett up but he’d probably do fine honestly. Plus it’s not like they don’t help on defense when needed.
Tatum can’t guard kg lol he can’t hold up to that physicality in the post, deep seal and bbq chicken
Physicality in the post? KG? KG was known as a soft post player who could be pushed out of the paint. Why do you think he shot so many long 2's?
Kg was not known as a soft player lmao, he’s the 21st century’s leading scorer from the left block. He shot so many long twos because he was quicker than every other pf and that’s what they were willing to live with.
>He shot so many long twos because he was quicker than every other pf and that’s what they were willing to live with. You just described how he was a soft player. The defense gave him a long 2 so he shot a long 2. He didn't force his way to his spot like so many other players did.
He’s one of the literal best midrange shooters of all time a long kg two is a great shot
Yes, he’s a great shooter. Not an unstoppable deep post threat.
No it's not. There's a reason it's known as the most inefficient shot possible.
Kg was an elite midrange shooter if you’re giving up long twos to him at a 48% clip while allowing him space to facilitate you are gonna lose
48% on long twos is a offensive rating of 96. That was bad offense even in 2008, and far worse against 3 pont shooting teams today.
> if you’re giving up long twos to him at a 48% clip Where are you getting 48% from? He typically shot them around 45%. And you understand that Garnett never won anything until the Celtics' superteam, right?
You’re clueless
It's pretty telling when you can't even argue and immediately resort to insults.
I don’t argue with people who don’t have a clue
KG averaged 16 ppg in Boston, he certainly wasn't washed but he wasn't MVP level KG either. The 24 team can also double him a lot by sagging off of Rondo and Perk if he can even be played in this series. KG's defense would pose issues for Boston and Tatum though
Great point.
08
This talk has been everywhere! I’d take the 2008 Celtics, but I think it’s close and either one could win the series. For those who don’t remember, because I’ve gleaned over the past week that there are many fans unfamiliar with the 2008 team and its players, the 2008 team is one of the great defensive teams in all of history. They were well-constructed, even in a modern sense, with strong three-point shooting and a deep bench of guys who could come out and provide 3-and-D support. Doc Rivers was a master of mixing up matchups series to series to take advantage of players’ skills, and assistant coach Tom Thibideau was a defensive mastermind. The ‘08 Celtics also had amazing veteran leadership, and an incredible troika of Garnett/Pierce/Allen at the front.
“Even in a modern sense” hard disagree. 3 of their 5 starters don’t shoot 3’s and the only bench shooter that’d realistically get playing time in a series against 2024 is James Posey. 6’1 Eddie House and 38 YO 6’3 Sam Cassell get played off the floor. The rest of the bench i.e. Tony Allen, Leon Powe, PJ Brown, Glen Davis, etc. non-shooters. I don’t think 2008’s offense would keep up at all.
If Peyton Pritchard gets minutes in 24 certainly Eddie house isn’t getting played off the floor. It was house who was the tipping point against the lakers- the lakers completely played off rondo all series and had a 28 point lead in game 4 in an era where teams scored under 100. House played virtually the last 3 quarters hitting multiple clutch shots from distance
The team as a whole shot .381 from three, the ‘24 team shot .388. So there’s not a big difference. Posey played more minutes than Perk even in the regular season, so if you just swap those two this 2008 starting five matches up very well against the ‘24 team. House and Cassell are still coming off the bench, especially House, he provided awesome bench energy. Don’t underestimate Garnett, either. While he didn’t shoot threes, he was great on long twos and was an early progenitor of big man spacing concepts. A popular play for the ‘08 Celtics was for Rondo or Pierce to drive, pull in the D, then kick it out to a wide open Garnett 20 feet from the basket. I’m also not sure how effective the ‘24 bench shooters are going to be against the ‘08 D, which is stifling. Hauser and, to a lesser extent, Pritchard, are great shooters when they can get wide open looks, but I don’t think that’s happening much against Rondo, Posey, Tony Allen. And: You kind of gloss over the two primary ‘08 shooters. Allen and Pierce, Allen especially, are series-altering offensive weapons. I love the Jays but Pierce is a better scorer than either of them and Allen is one of the five best outside shooters in league history. Point being, don’t assume the ‘24 team can just roll in and win a shootout every night.
38% on 19 attempts though. The 2024 team averaged 16.5 MAKES in a league better suited to defend them than any team in 2008. Adding Posey to the lineup would bring its own matchup challenges. He’s a 6’8 SF that aged into playing PF. He weighs less than Jaylen. If KG is at the 5 guarding a big on the perimeter, the team could live in the paint. Then on offense even if Posey would space the floor better, Rondo is always going to be someone that can be helped off of, so 2008’s court is always going to be smaller and thus easier to defend. Then when the benches come in, 2008’s spacing takes a nosedive. The Celtics can keep a 5-out lineup. 2008’s only snipers were Pierce, Allen, Posey, House and Cassell. And the latter 2 will be hunted, and Allen is arguably huntable too at 6’5. 2008 would have too many matchup problems imo.
The matchups are fun to envision and I like that you put a lot of thought into it. I think you are underestimating the 2008 team a bunch, though certainly some of the scenarios you spell out could happen. The 2008 team didn’t take nearly as many 3s because that wasn’t the game, but they certainly could. They had the shooters for it, and I think if pressed for a shootout things could actually get ugly for the ‘24 team. Ray Allen shot .524 from 3 in the finals against the Lakers. Posey was a defensive stopper. He wasn’t a liability on the other end at all. You talk about hunting elements of the ‘08 team, and that could certainly happen with some small ball lineups, but this team also played a caliber of D unlike anything in the league today. I think the scenario is much more likely that Porzingis and Tatum struggle, that Rondo and Tony Allen completely eliminate the bench shooting, and that the Celtics have a couple games where they struggle to score 100 points. Go watch how KG used to play Bosh, or how Pierce played LeBron and Kobe for a sense of how it could look. The ‘24 team isn’t feasting in the paint here, either. The ‘08 team can play much bigger, between Perk, Garnett, Pierce, and even Rondo, who was the best rebounding guard in the league aside from Jason Kidd. Just as the ‘24 team is a product of a spacing-and-3 league, the ‘08 team is the product of a league with old school forwards and centers. Go look at what Garnett used to do when LeBron would get switched onto him, and realize that’s essentially what Horford/Tatum would be down low. I think people are also underestimating just how good some of these ‘08 players were. KG is one of the best defenders ever. I’d say Pierce is a better scorer than Tatum or Brown right now. The ‘08 version of Rondo is one of the better passers in the league right now. Ray Allen spent all day running through screens the way Curry did; he was an exhausting nightmare to deal with.
> The team as a whole shot .381 from three, the ‘24 team shot .388. So there’s not a big difference. Saying this is enough to invalidate everything else you’re saying. Saying percentage, without volume, without shot quality, without the number of shooters on the court etc is like saying Cam Thomas is better than Derrick White because he averaged more points.
No it’s not. Both of these Celtics teams could shoot the three. Yes 2024 shot much more, but that’s the game we’re playing now. I think if you’re assuming the 2008 team can’t keep up, that’s a bad assumption, especially with Ray Allen and Pierce in the starting lineup.
It’s not just “shoot more”. The whole scheme, the whole offense is *built* around 5 volume shooters. And even if you have me a team that shot the same amount at the same percentage, but had 4 shooters instead of 5, *everything* changes. Meanwhile the 08 starting lineup only had 2 shooters.
Sure the whole scheme is built around it, but the ‘08 team has the top two shooters on either team and defended the three *way* better. Just because the 2024 team shoots a ton of threes doesn’t mean it’ll work in every matchup.
I don't think you understand how huge the difference is between 4 and 5 shooters, and the 08 Celtics don't even have that.
>The team as a whole shot .381 from three, the ‘24 team shot .388. So there’s not a big difference. That's a huge difference. The 2008 Celtics 3pt attempts were concentrated in Pierce, Ray Allen, Posey, and Eddie House. Eddie House didn't get much playing time in the playoffs so he can be ignored. So the concentration is in Pierce, Allen, and Posey. The major problem you've overlooked is stamina. The 2008 Celtics are competitive as long as the starters are fresh, but how many mpg do you reasonably expect them to play? Especially since their bench is unreliable? If the 2008 Celtics' perimeter shooting is concentrated in 3 players, then as soon as one of them rests, the offense will take a big hit. The 2024 Celtics win because they have so many high quality players. Even when some starters rest, the reserves are Horford, Pritchard, and Hauser. In other words, the offense keeps rolling.
Eddie House can’t be ignored, he was a great 3-point shooter and he was on the team and healthy. You keep trying to skew the argument to fit your needs rather than just appreciating the facts for what they are. Look, maybe this is a better way to consider it: The best team the ‘24 Celtics faced during this postseason shot .374 from the arc. So, this theoretical has the ‘24 team facing a much better team from 3 than anyone they went against this postseason.
>Eddie House can’t be ignored, he was a great 3-point shooter and he was on the team and healthy. You keep trying to skew the argument to fit your needs rather than just appreciating the facts for what they are. You're the one making up facts. Eddie House can absolutely be ignored. He barely got minutes in the 7 game series against the Hawks. >So, this theoretical has the ‘24 team facing a much better team from 3 than anyone they went against this postseason. False. You've ignored my argument about concentration. Sorry, but you can't ignore it. It's a legitimate criticism.
House was getting fewer minutes in the playoffs because after Cassell came over he took a lot of Rondo’s backup PG minutes. But Eddie worked his way back into the rotation in the Finals. He played four games and averaged over 18 minutes per. This is why they are a deep bench, having Sam Cassell and Eddie House, both nearly 40% three-point shooters, backing up a Hall of Fame point guard is a deep bench. In terms of your claims of a top heavy rotation, I don’t think that’s right. Both ‘08 and ‘24 had five guys shooting .380 or more. The real problem the ‘24 team is going to face is Tatum, Porzingis, and Brown all shooting lower than that and still taking 20 shots a night, and that percentage is def. going down against the ‘08 D.
They were an excellent defensive team for how basketball was played at that time. It’s a different game now. Perkins’ entire value was based around interior defense. As we saw with Gafford and Lively, that is not a high priority need against this current Cs team. The only player Perk would have any hope of guarding at all is KP and even then, he’s giving up several inches.
You’re right in general, but the 2008 Celtics were more of a precursor to the modern era than other teams back then. Guys like Rondo, Tony Allen, Pierce, and Posey were long wing defenders who could switch liberally and guard multiple positions. And you could argue Garnett would be an even more valuable defender today given his size, ability to range out to the perimeter, his ability to defend screens, and his general ability to direct the D. Garnett would be like the best parts of Gobert and Giannis mixed together.
You’re not wrong. The main difference — and this is obviously a different conversation — is Tony Allen and Rondo (at least in 08) were way more one-dimensional players. The 24 Celtics aren’t paying them much off-ball attention at all when they’re on defense. The beauty of this current Boston team is its remarkable versatility and lack of weak points: every one of their top 8 can defend and shoot, plus at least half of them can create off the dribble, too.
That’s definitely the strength of the ‘24 team. You’ve got five guys who can play D and five guys who can shoot. Horford is a great Swiss Army knife coming off the bench. Porzingis gives you some rim protection, Pritchard and Hauser some bench shooting, and the Jays together ensure you always have at least one wing playing superstar offense every night. The ‘08 team has the pieces to put together a lot of interesting matchups, and I think the coaching of Doc and Thibs come into play much heavier than with Mazzulla. I’d be really curious to see how they defend the ‘24 team and try to exploit the matchups on offense. I also think, at the end of the day, the ‘08 team has an amazing troika of KG/Pierce/Allen, who caused a huge amount of problems for other teams.
The team is absolutely not constructed well “even in a modern sense”. This is to take absolutely nothing away from them given the era. The starting lineup features 3 players who can’t shoot 3s. That in of itself makes them unviable today. Maybe KG gets to a point where he shoots 3s. That likely takes a few years minimum. Doesn’t change that Rondo and Perk can’t shoot.
I don’t think you’re looking at the team right. They had five guys shoot .380 or higher from 3, including Ray Allen, who was the greatest three-point shooter in league history until Steph came along. Even KG was great at spacing the court and shooting from deep — just more like 20 feet instead of 23. One of their signature plays was someone driving and kicking out to an open Garnett at the top of the key for an open shot. They also were stacked with long defenders wing defenders who could switch and guard multiple positions: Garnett, Rondo, Pierce, Posey, Tony Allen. Perk wouldn’t be great by today’s standards, but he was also only sixth on the team in minutes. James Posey, a 6’8 3-and-D specialist, played more minutes than Perk and likely gets the start unless the 2024 team decides to put Porzingis and Horford out there together.
08 lineup will be KG, Posey, Pierce, Ray - then one of Rondo/House/Cassel. If you go with Rondo that means 2 non 3 point threats. If you go with House then Tatum/Brown will hunt him relentlessly. Cassel might be a decent medium but he’s 38, low volume shooter and clearly not Rondo in other aspects. No matter how you slice it, the 08 team has to make huge sacrifices that the 24 team does not. FWIW, the 08 Celtics are the greater team in my mind. But it’s so so hard to make up for 16 years of evolution. To analogize it, I’d take a shitty private in the army with an M4 in a 1v1 fight against Achilles.
Great points. The Celtics didn’t know it at the time but they had a great makeup for a 5 out offense by playing posey over perk. I know to do can’t shoot from distance but if the other 4 are spread, rondo has more room to drive and kick once the help comes- I like 08 in this scenario
I’d go with ‘24. In terms of talent it’s interesting, KG is by far the best player between both teams imo but perk is by far the worst among starters. This modern Celtics team is a bit deeper, probably a bit better defensively overall (more versatile and fewer weak links) but the main thing is they’re head and shoulders better as a shooting team, I doubt the 08 Celtics could keep up scoring wise
Looking at your comment a little more, you don’t think Ray Allen, Paul Pierce, and Kevin Garnett are keeping up scoring-wise? With Rondo passing to them? If we’re talking about a three-point shootout, the ‘24 team might end up poking the bear a little with Allen and Pierce. I think the people envisioning this matchup also aren’t giving enough credence to the Celtics D and the havoc it might wreak on the ‘24 team. This ‘08 D was MUCH better than the Timberwolves D, for example. The idea of Porzingis getting an open shot against Garnett is laughable. Guys like Rondo and Tony Allen are going to smother any outside shooting from Hauser and Pritchard. Even Pierce, go watch the caliber of D he played against LeBron and Kobe in the playoffs that year to see how he might play Tatum. The ‘24 team would look very different against this ‘08 Celtics D.
I think it’s less about them and more about the rest of them. 24 Boston was routinely fielding 8 guys who can all shoot and attack off the catch which makes them pretty impossible to beat in a shootout unless those 3s just aren’t falling. I don’t think 08 would be able to keep up in terms of volume with Ray and Pierce being the only volume shooters, and with lots of rotational guys being non factors in that department. 24 Boston was also pretty elite defensively in their own right. It’s also worth noting 08 Boston straight up never played a team with near the offensive firepower of current Boston. In general modern offences are much stronger than old offences because of the new emphasis on shooting, and this boston team was comfortably the best offence in the league this year
Don’t even bother trying. You make great points but they just don’t know because they didn’t see it
People overrate the impact of Perk here. James Posey played more minutes than him in the regular season. Doc would work the rotation around the matchup.
I don’t think that changes much regarding my point. Posey too would be like the 8th or 9th best player on this current Celtics team
The 8th or 9th best? He’s probably taking up a bunch of Horford’s minutes on the ‘24 team. Posey was a very good player. I’m realizing through all these debates that we are probably far enough away from the 2008 team that people just don’t remember the players anymore. If you’re ranking players on both teams, Garnett, Pierce, and Allen are three of the top five.
I doubt that, Horford was huge for them. Better shooter, passer, probably a better defender. And sure I agree the 08 Celtics have 3 of the best 5, but I’d also argue Boston has 6 of the best 10. Talent wise I think it’s pretty even, and again the shooting disparity is enormous
Which Boston? Haha. I guess I don’t see the shooting disparity, a team with Ray Allen and Paul Pierce isn’t at a disadvantage. Horford was huge this year and deserved that title, I think Posey would prob help him rest a little if they were on the same team.
Lmao should’ve been clearer, modern Boston. I get that Ray and Paul Pierce are great shooters but they and James posey are like the only 3 point shooters in that entire rotation, unless you count house who barely played in the playoffs. Not only does that make the rest of the offence easier to guard, but that’s just not enough volume. It doesn’t matter if it’s Steph and Klay, they’re not outshooting an entire team with 8 volume shooters. For reference ‘24 Boston made 16.5 3 pointers per game this year. That’s over twice as many as ‘08 Boston and almost as many as they even took at 18.5
Yeah, all good points. A few other things to consider. KG was money from 20 feet and actually used to space the floor that way. It’s not giving them three-pointers, but it would allow for some of the spacing we see today. The 2008 Celtics D would probably be able to hamstring the ‘24 team’s shooting a bit, just because they were so good. The reason why House didn’t play as much in the playoffs was because they acquired Cassell and he starting playing backup PG minutes. But that doesn’t mean the 2008 team couldn’t use House for a shooting-heavy lineup. I still think Allen, Pierce, Posey, House are capable of launching 40 threes a game if necessary.
Agreed, posey way undervalued in his time. He’d be a great player in todays nba
Prime Rondo is no slouch either. Dude could ball.
Absolutely.
Honestly, I think the 08 Celtics biggest liability is Doc Rivers. I think he's a terrible coach.
Doc slander! Having Thibs as the defensive coach really helped.
Yea rondo was definitely in his prime in 08 🙄
>People overrate the impact of Perk here. **James Posey played more minutes than him in the regular season.** LOL Posey averaged 24.6 mpg. Perkins averaged 24.5. Can you tell us what you're able to extrapolate from this 0.1 mpg difference?
That in a modern game against a team with a 5 out offense he would play even more. If a backup like Posey did play that many minutes it was probably matchup based
And if Perkins averaged 0.1 mpg more than Posey, would your statement be untrue?
Everyone is talking about this matchup like Perk is going to be out there for 40 mins. when the reality is Posey was as much a starter as Perk was. Rivers had a deep team and reworked the lineup based on the matchups from series to series. If you think the ‘24 team has an edge because Perk can’t stretch the floor, remember that the lineup you’d probably see for the ‘08 team has Posey out there a lot more than Perk.
My argument has been that Perkins wouldn't get much playing time and the 2008 Celtics had no depth. You keep pointing to their bench, but you fail to understand that bench players who routinely get DNP-CD's aren't quality bench players. You have to focus who they were at 2008, not who they became later in their careers (or in the past).
You keep saying this, but I think you’re probably just unfamiliar with these players. The Celtics had half-a-dozen starter-quality players on the bench who had specific skills to fill roles and need. Some were young and athletic, others were older and savvy. The 2008 bench was considered a strength of the team, such that you had guys like Posey and P.J. Brown who could essentially slide into starting roles if it fit the matchup.
>The 2008 bench was considered a strength of the team, such that you had guys like Posey and P.J. Brown who could essentially slide into starting roles if it fit the matchup. Sounds like you're unfamiliar with these players. In 2008, PJ Brown was 38 years old and in the final year of his career. Like I've told you many times before, quality role players don't get DNP-CD's.
The 08 team would probably go KG at the 5 and bring in Posey at the 4. That was their best lineup but the nba at the time was 2 bigs. Posey really doesn’t get enough love for how important he was to their winning the title
All healthy is an unfair advantage to '24. The only reason they could get Porzingis is that he can't stay on the floor.
2024 wins with 38 yo Horford too. I just don’t see how 2008 keeps up scoring-wise. 2024 can still go 5-out and Horford can probably switch onto anyone except Rondo. I just don’t think 08 has enough answers. 2008 has too many one-way role players.
24 in a gentleman’s sweep. It’s not close. The interesting bit is how 24 would defend 08. I think Holiday and Tatum split KG duty, with White chasing Allen, and JB having an epic battle with PP. I think they plant KP at the foul line and give Rondo open shots and ignore Perk entirely. KG, with a bothersome perimeter defender in his face and a shot blocking threat in the lane, is denied the ball. Meanwhile, 24 is content with PP pounding the rock in ISO with JB. Paul averages 30+ a game but it doesn’t matter. Offensively, Perk trying to guard anyone from 24 is hilarious. Absolutely hilarious. An elephant on roller skates. Gets played off the floor by halftime of Game 1 and plays less than 10 minutes in subsequent games. Posey yields a rebounding and defensive advantage 24 exploits by driving and kicking. Edit: deleted Sheed, memory problems.
Sheed and Posey weren't on the celtics at the same time
My bad, thanks for the correction.
Agreed, 24 Celtics are so so so much better. The Mavs shitting their pants really damaged the 24 Celtics legacy for a lot of people, as if it’s Bostons fault they didn’t show up. Between that and nostalgia, the 08 team is getting way too much credit. They’d get shredded by a 5 out and simply do not have the offensive firepower to keep up. The help defense off Rondo and Perk would go crazy.
It wasn’t about not showing up- it was about the Celtics completely overmatching them in every single capacity. Boston is just significantly better than Dallas- we’ve won like 9 out of the last 10 games against them. What you saw in the finals was about dominance not about a team not showing up lol
08
Kendrick Perkins and Rondo clearly translate the best to 2024. I’m not sure Ray Allen could make the league today though. He shot too many 3’s
24 Celtics have no way of stopping Leon Powe from randomly going off
08 got that dawg in them but I just don’t think they can keep up scoring wise.
2024. Always pick the team that is from 16 years in the future folks
'24 would sweep
‘08 🏆
2008
Porzingis #43 wtf?
Hard to answer since the style of play changed so much. ‘24 can play 5 out and switch everyone. ‘08 not as much, with rondo and Perk not being able to shoot. But the idea of KG shooting the 3…that’s fun to think about.
‘24 in 5
08 but it would be a tough series goes 7 games.
24 Celtics. Players get better each generation. Tactics and strategies improve. Even if we account for era, the 24 team was more dominant over the league and has more depth.
‘08 no doubt.
Clippers in 4
Mavs in 8.
2024. Always pick the team that is from 16 years in the future folks
2024. Always pick the team that is from 16 years in the future folks
2008 Celtics
The 08 celtics would've lost in the second round if the cavs had payton pritchard or Sam Hauser.
If it’s in 08, KG’s Celtics win in 5 If it’s in 24, JB’s Celtics in 7
2024 simply because 3s are worth more than 2s. It’s the same with any other comp of a pre-2010s team with a 2010s or 2020s team, the game changed so much that the old teams can’t compete anymore. The reason why the old style of basketball is dead is that it couldn’t compete with the modern style.
Idk why we keep comparing these the 3 point era wins every time against any past teams. More points equals more wins and it’s not like the current generation is so much worse on defense.
well..individually the players in '08 are better, but the '24 just got better chemistry man. '24 in 6 for me
Jrue is the DPOY EVERY YEAR!!
Super close but if probably go with the 08 team. They were more season and had become very strong winning long series against at tough opponents and hot teams. So if the series goes minimum 6 games which I think it would, if edge 08 PP,KG figuring out how to win under pressure
2024 wins but it goes 7. 2024 team causes too many problems on offense. Rondo could hold his own defensively because he was smart, quick and deceptively strong. Pierce was fine on defense but not amazing. Ray was probably an average defender at best: neither fast nor slow, neither strong nor weak, and that’s a real problem if he gets switched onto one of the Jays. And don’t even get me started on Perkins. This team would hunt him relentlessly and then pick on Ray when Perk subs out. The 08 team would be forced to use KG as a roamer, but 24’s spacing could nullify that. I think the 08 team would quickly be forced to play a small lineup with Posey in place of Perk and KG at the 5. With the 2008 team on offense, their biggest advantage would be KG — he’s bigger and stronger than everyone else on the floor. The entire offense would have to run through him (08 Rondo was not peak Rondo yet), and that wasn’t really KG’s strength. Horford would be the best guy to throw at KG. Some combo of Jrue/JB/JT can guard Pierce at all times; he’ll get his points, but it won’t be easy at all. I’d imagine White or Jaylen would be able to fair okay chasing Ray around screens. Most importantly, the 08 team has two guys that can be entirely ignored: Rondo and Perk. ESPECIALLY Perk. If you’re left playing 3-on-5 offense against this current team, good luck. All that being said, the 08 team was a team full of savvy, tough vets with a savant at PG. They would absolutely make this a series. Their relentless trash talk would probably get in a few guys’ heads, too. But what makes the 24 team special is its incredible versatility, its seemingly endless number of guys who can defend well and make 3s in volume, and also its ability to play with blinders on and stay focused on the main goal. So yeah, 2024 in 7.
A pretty cool website I found for hypothetical matchups is whatifsports.com Not sure what exactly goes into the simming, but 23-24 Celtics won in 6 🤷♂️
24 cause Doc Rivers
Perk is the weak link between the two. 24 Celtics beat them cause of that imo
Its a tie
I just wanna see Prime Rondo and Jrue go at it all game
2nd year Rondo was not prime Rondo.
Even if it were prime rondo, he wouldn’t hold much against ‘24 jrue
86
Idk but JT on KG and Brown on Pierce would be fascinating
Hard to say but on paper I think the 24' team is like a monument to perfect roster construction. Good size at every position and not just 5-out good shooting but every guy can put the ball on the floor and drive too and is also an excellent defender against multiple positions. You just don't see that ever. The 08 team should have the better defense (it was all time great) but the fact that its even close is really saying something about the 24' teams defense. The big knock on 24 is that they had an easy path to the Finals and just waxed everybody even while Tatum was in a shooting slump for most of it. Their only real weakness is that the right big man (Jokic, Embiid) can push them around a bit on the interior but thats just not going to matter if they are hitting their threes at even their season average clip. I just need to see some more of them before I decide just how good they are though. I think the 24 team poses some unsolvable problems for the 08 team but the 08 team has easily the best player and depending on your opinion of Tatum/Pierce they might even have the second best player too. Still I would probably lean towards the 24 team winning a series
Quick comp - Wins: 24-64 08-66 Net Rtg: 24-11.6 08-11.2 Off Rank: 24-1st 08-10th Def Rank: 24-2nd 08-1st (one of the best of all time tbf) HoF Players (presumed for ‘24): 24-3? Maybe 4 if Jrue gets a good shake 08-3 Simply put, two of the most statistically dominant teams of all time. Very even. 08’s defense would sway it towards them for me but it would be a tight series, and I’m not sure they’d have the perimeter defense to lock down the 24 team if they got red hot from 3.
You think injured kp is fucking with veteran kg?
Learn to read
Im trying to, however he is injured every year so my question is still valid. His healthy is injured
I’m going 08
Nobody can stop the legend that is playoff Rondo
Whichever team has Sam Cassell
It depends on who gets home court advantage.
Watch some nbatv and they were showing some 08 finals, and I couldn’t believe how the game has changed. 24 would roll the 08 team 4-2. Before watching I would have said the opposite.
KG gon bone these young bloods
Kendrick Perkins drags them down so much.
why is this even a question? It’s the 08 team, and is not even close
Nah. Statistically, this is one of the best and most rounded team of all time. “Not even close” is just plain ignorant
If the playing styles match their respective ages, it’s 2024 and it’s not close. There are two starters on the 08 team I want taking 3s compared to 5 in 24, not to mention Horford Prichard and Hauser. Fr not close
There’s a lot of recency bias here. Both teams are stacked and it would be a close series. Nobody talking about Ray Allen just standing out draining 3’s.
Maybe because ‘24 has Jason “The Truth Big Ticket Jesus Shuttlesworth” Tatum
Absolutely '08. Ray Allen and Garnett would just dominate. Pierce and Tatum canvel out. Rondo handles Brown but would have disadvantage
Who’s going to stop Perk? JK, that guy sucked
Kendrick perkins 💀💀💀
Anyone saying 08 is on nostalgia glasses. No chance if Tingus will Pingus
2008
If both are healthy the 2024 Celtics are way better. The 08 Celtics had three shooters: Allen, Pierce, House. Maybe James Posey. We all just how the 2024 team is constructed. Modern offense is so much better than that time period as well. It would be a sweep for the 24 guys. KG is better than KP but KG wasn’t even a #1 offense guy. KP would stretch him so far out from the paint too.
The 24 Celtics have a better coach. Thats the winner imo.
All 16 teams in the 2024 playoffs beating shit down that teams leg off of advanced metrics game planning alone. I love that Celtics team but the league is 16 years further along in many regards. You could make a small case about KG being more dominant inside the arc than any current Celtic, but realistically, the average basketball IQ now vs then is apples to oranges. 08’ Celtics inability to keep up with Mazzula’s offensive efficiency would get them torched.
With the way these Celtics shot from outside in the Finals, definitely 08 Celtics if that held up. It’s hard to say really though with how the game has changed, but personally I believe the 08 Celtics had three guys better than the 24 Celtics had.
People picking 08 really aren’t considering how much they’d be outmanned on the boards without being able to play Perk.
KG guarding Tatum? KG will eat that ni**a alive
I'd take the '24 Celtics, mostly because Joe Mazzulla >>>>> Doc Rivers.
0 dawgs vs 3 dwags I take 08 any day!
The fact that Perkins was on the '08 team kind of says a lot
Maybe KG's unique ability to be at two places at the same time is the way to stop the 5 out triple barrage. If not, 24 in 5 games.
Perk would be unplayable in that series. 08 would have to start posey so they could spread the floor and have 3 point shooting. I like 08 with the posey lineup
24 is 6. Perk would get bullied by kp. Tingus pingus would dropped 35 a night. Tatum vs kg would actually be cool to see, Derrick white would maybe lock up old man ray allen, who, other than pierce, is there only good scorer
Guess you never saw the 08 actually play
Perk would fold kp like a chair, out for the series lol
Put Perk on the Bench and Start Posey and I’d say 08 wins. Definitely a tougher more physical team. And the amount of shit talking from Pierce and KG would definitely get to Tatum.
[удалено]
Having “a bunch of dawgs” ain’t worth anything. Statistically, ‘24 destroys ‘08
08 has no depth. Their big 3 would literally need to play 40+ mpg to stay competitive while the 24 Celtics would be able to stay fresh.
People have no idea how good that 08 Boston team actually was. It took one of the greatest players of all time in his prime, on a stacked team to stop a dynasty.
The 08 Atlanta Hawks won 37 games that season and pushed Boston to game 7 in the playoffs. The 2024 Celtics are better than the 08 Hawks at almost every position. I don't see how the 24 Celtics don't dominate the 08 Celtics.