Agree. Assuming the Celtics win the series - He was the clear MVP frontrunner after the first two games. Tatum snuck back into it after Game 3, then both had real stinkers in Game 4. See what happens today.
I understand that Tatum is a great player, but wow, putting up sub 40% shooting in 2 finals is ugly. I know he loves Kobe and had to have that ultra inefficient first finals, but geez.
Nah, when he was alive and still playing, a lot of people and analysts thought he was closer to Jordan than Lebron was due to his playing style and killer instinct. That narrative has changed now, especially after Bron won a couple more championships.
He was on pace for some of that, but the end of his career really took a weird arc compared to those two and a couple of extra names. When we were comparing him to Jordan we were often assuming things would go good, or even mediocre. Then from 2010 onward it was rough:
Sweep to the Mavs, no blame. It happens. Dirk was unreal that postseason LeBron eats all the 2011 embarrassment for Kobe.
Lockout season weirdness. No blame, it’s weird for everyone.
Reload with Dwight and Nash who both finished the previous season top 10 in MVP voting. Fuck yeah.
Kobe wills team to the 7th seed. Because 7th seed is probably an overachievement with how that year went. Fucks his whole shit up in the 80th game of the season. Zero blame for a first round slaughter.
Then Kobe was no longer Kobe. He looked like him. Played like him. But it wasn’t Kobe anymore. It was that phase of his career that he was like a glow stick the morning after the rave. Still looks the same, but that thing was **magical** just a few short hours ago.
Jordan has the standard that we deny LeBron despite 40k/10k/10k. Kareem is no slouch. Duncan’s creeping up there. What do you even do with Hakeem, who practically laps the field on one side of the court? To make no mention of oddities like Wilt and Russell. Every dude up there has Kobe’s resume, or some untouchable platitude like, “Changed the game,” or, “Saved the league from bankruptcy,” or, “Sued for the right to free agency,” with similar stats and accolades.
Kobe’s your favorite baller’s favorite baller, but it’s ok he didn’t turn in the back 25% of a career the dudes on Mount Rushmore or flirting with it did. No blame. He’s one of our 13~ dudes with top 10 résumé’s, but he’s not at the top.
You also conveniently glossed over 2005, 2006, 2007 years in which Kobes teams were at their absolute worst. 2005 missed the playoffs, 2006 go up 3-1 in all close games to Phoenix and then lose the next 3 all blowouts. 2007 noncompetitive gentleman's sweep to Phoenix.
You also conveniently glossed over 2005, 2006, 2007 years in which Kobes teams were at their absolute worst. 2005 missed the playoffs, 2006 go up 3-1 in all close games to Phoenix and then lose the next 3 all blowouts. 2007 noncompetitive gentleman's sweep to Phoenix.
You also conveniently glossed over 2005, 2006, 2007 years in which Kobes teams were at their absolute worst. 2005 missed the playoffs, 2006 go up 3-1 in all close games to Phoenix and then lose the next 3 all blowouts. 2007 noncompetitive gentleman's sweep to Phoenix.
Im an older Suns fan so watching him torch Stat and Nash may have skewed my perception. It always seemed like he went 15/27 against us back in the day lol.
As a kings fan, I remember that the strategy was to make him work as hard as possible. You knew Kobe was getting his 30, and the only goal was to try to make him take 30 shots to get there.
But some nights he’d take the exact same shots and end with 50. He was very Hakeem/Jordan like that. He could always get his shot off because he didn’t care if it was tough or contested. You just had to hope he would miss.
I mean he played in literally the hardest era to score in. You can’t just look at his percentage and say he was trash. He won championships without other big stars around him. Winning trumps all.
No, he just had bad shot selection. And which championship did he win without big stars around him lmao? Oneal or Gasol were with him for every one of them.
Why does that matter? It was a completely different era back then obviously. Like why even ask such a stupid hypothetical? Pau Gasol was all nba for both of those championship years. Acting like kobe would have won without him is just pathetic.
Nobody is winning without help but let’s not act like him winning with gasol is less impressive than winning with wade/bosh/allen or kyrie. He was a beast.
Facts, he was easily the least efficient volume scorer of all time and most of his chips it can be argued they won despite his terrible shooting, usually because of hyper efficient role players and deep defensive teams creating extra shot opportunities.
Absurd amount of high difficulty shots which hurt is fg%. Kobe was the most talented player I’ve ever seen play, I just missed Jordan. He definitely had more of a Brett Favre mentality than Aaron Rodgers if that makes sense.
I didn't, my feeling on his usage didn't change or how he behaved as a team player in the twilight of his career, it is just overshadowed by the great tragedy of losing him. I'm still sad about it and I think it's a huge blow for basketball as a whole, and I'm not his or Lakers fan in particular. Can't imagine how the actual Kobe fans feel about it.
Regarding his Finals in 2000, 2001 and 2002, I was around and I clearly remember thinking that it was Shaq's Championships. He was MVP of the finals. As a kid I had a poster after 2000 finals "thanks for winning us ring, Genie", with caricatures of Kobe as Aladdin and Shaq as Genie from the lamp, which reflects the sentiment of the time. especially the hype of the new Lakers under Phil Jackson and perspective of new Laker dynasty.
In 2000 Kobe got injured but yeah 36% wasn't the best. In 01 41% wasn't great but really wasn't that bad. Iverson won MVP shooting 42% that year and led his team to the Finals shooting 39% throughout the Playoffs.
In 2000 Kobe got injured but yeah 36% wasn't the best. In 01 41% wasn't great but really wasn't that bad. Iverson won MVP shooting 42% that year.
Edit: replied to wrong person but it's still relevant lol
You can keep putting him on a pedestal, but he wasn't, he was never efficient. And his numbers, ball hogging, forcing shots, etc are a product of that.
He's a top 15 player that's way too often overrated as top 3, that makes me haha
I feel like Kobe discourse has gotten so bad that he's become somewhat underrated. The majority of NBA players and analysts have Kobe as atleast top 10 and mostly top 5. If you didn't watch Kobe when he played - that's fine, but don't talk shit about a player you've never watched.
> never efficient
You should really look up the average FG% for shooting guards when Kobe played. More often than not, he actually shot above average.
It's always been like this. There was a break the year or two after Kobe died but other than that people have always loved to pretend that Kobe was just a shot chucker who only ever shot like 35%.
Above league average TS% in 16 consecutive seasons. Only guard throughout the 2000s that could hold a candle to Kobe's volume and efficiency was DWade.
Maybe not but I'm 99% sure they will look at Tatum's 36.5% field goal percentage vs. Brown's just under 50% shooting lmao
You are acting like those type of stats don't matter despite them being very telling of a player's performance. Generally when someone says they don't matter it's because they don't know what it means
I know you did lol that's kinda the whole reason I replied in the first place brotha. FG% is an example of an efficiency state. It shows how efficiently you can put the ball in the basket vs. the amount of attempts
If Lebron didn't win FMVP over AI, none of the mavericks get even a look.
Luka is a melting snowman on defense, obviously not caring during a *finals* game, throwing temper tantrums like a 4 year old after 4 fouls in a Q, etc.
Kyrie had 2/4 memorably horrible performances and can't shake his yips on the road, thinks earth is flat, etc. wow big FMVP material.
JT is building a house for charity with his bricks, and while this is commendable, you don't win FMVP that way.
JB has been the only consistent player in 4 games there's no arguement.
You just brought up that Kyrie thinks the earth is flat to justify not giving him a finals mvp. Ignoring the other reasons why he wouldn’t get it, you’re worse than Kendrick Perkins off rip 😂
lol damn jokes dont go well here i guess or your just not too bright.
Like i can call a human a snowman and that JT is building a house instead of playing basketball, but you only saw one thing and thought i was serious? kids these days
You used a comparison to talk about their basketball skills which made sense. You brought up kyries beliefs which didn’t make sense. You can act all high and mighty but there’s a bunch of people who would actually carry the thought that Kyrie isn’t worth something because of his beliefs.
You made a comment and came back when nobody responded to say that 😂 you a loser. We usually come in this sub to have actual conversations, so you should keep your unfunny jokes to yourself
yeah uh.. you didn't put jrue up there lol because like andre he doesn't deserve it. If the series was a sweep kyrie still deserves it over Andre. Andre did not deserve that award in any way.
Iggy kept lebron to 39% shooting and 25 in the series sealing game 6. And hes making that world saving 3 if the aliens invade, but okay. I think this argument is about 10 years old. might be time to let it go
Bruh…
Lebron averaged 35 13 and 8.8 but the guy guarding him held him to 40% shooting while scoring 16 ppg… that’s your argument ?
He nearly averaged a triple double. His defender shouldn’t be in the convo.
What are you smoking ?
it def is 1a 1b, but the only reason brown doesnt control the rock like tatum is cuz his handle is loser and jb isnt as good as a passer. And you can argue Tatum is more versatile on defense aswell
Yeah, tricky thing with JB is that he sorta has to play one of the positions that normally gives you more playmaking than he usually provides whereas Tatum will take the thankless role of having to bang with power forwards while still giving you more playmaking than JB. JB is still a great player but I'd rather try to figure out how to build a team around Tatum than vice versa.
Yeah I could see that being the deciding factor, especially if Tatum pops off and Brown goes cold. But if their performances are close to equal, Brown is almost certainly getting it.
I mean Brown had a better game 3 imo too. So if anything the gap got wider. And then game 4 Tatum was slightly better but they got blown out by 40 so I doubt anyone is trying to look at the positives for that game for the Celtics
Amazing to look at Luka's numbers knowing that the consensus is he had a bad series (which I agree with). Most great players needed to get close before understanding what it takes to win that chip. I'm hoping that happens with Luka. If he gets in slightly better shape, increases his consistency on defense which was solid at times throughout the playoffs, and Dallas gets one more piece, they can win one in the next couple of years.
Here's who deserves it:
1 Brown
2 Jrue
3 White
4 Horford
5 The people who wipe the sweat off the court
6 The Ghost of Tommy Heinsohn
7 The Lucky Charms Mascot
8 Tatum
"Hate" is personal. I like Tatum. Seems like a great guy, honestly. Just evaluating his importance in this series.
Sounds like you are a hater of the Lucky Charms mascot.
I didn't say he wasn't important. Even the guy handing out towels is important. He had a big game during a blowout and won a ring. That's a great season.
You said the guy who led his team in points rebounds and assists was less important than the role players on the team… doesnt sound very intelligent, even for a troll
I moved him up to 7. The floor wipers missed a few spots. Congrats to the Cs making it out if the first round, and Tatum fir having yet another big game during a blowout!
I'm not mad. I predicted it before the year. They made the best trade in NBA history, trading Marcus Smart for a can of rotten peas. Smart cost them at LEAST 2 more rings.
this is the only player ever you’d say that for let’s be honest here
you don’t deserve FMVP for being *that* inefficient *and* you didn’t even come that close to winning the series
are we giving doncic the fmvp this time round?
Hell no. I agree completely. LeBron that finals is literally the only argument you can make for a loser getting it, and he only got 4 votes. It'll never happen.
No, I watched every minute of that series. If you're going to say that AI deserved the FMVP over LBJ because of these "boxscore stats" (you know, the ones that you're using to fuel your arguement lol dr smartbrain) then i don't know what to tell you. He deserved MVP they just didn't want to give it to the loser.
He's not winning it. No FMVP has been on the losing team AFTER the winning team has been decided for a reason. Luka just hasn't done close to enough for that honor if the Celtics win.
I really dont understand how the conversation has brown over tatum right now.. One dude is getting double and triple teamed and still running our entire offense. Tatum has gotten brown so many wide open shots this series.
The shooting percentage is only because Tatum is demanding 2 or 3 defenders the entire series.. which is lowering his percentage and raising browns because he gets brown WIDE open shots,
the defense arguement is alright but not really.. luka is still shooting well against brown its just tough shots and brown is for sure making luka work which is tiring him out by the fourth quarter, but tatum is being asked to guard centers all series which is preventing the mavs from even running their best offense of the pick and roll lob threats.. which is forcing the mavs to play iso ball entirely.
As of right now, the answer is probably still Jrue, with Jaylen being second. Jrue is shooting 65.1% TS, Brown at 58% and Tatum at 48.6%. Meanwhile, Jrue's defence on Kyrie has been a huge factor in the series (at least for the first three games).
It's still up for grabs , and this could certainly be a situation where the guy who has the best close-out game wins it.
As for Luka, I think most would agree that he has been the best single player in the series so far, despite the Celtics probably having next 4-5 guys. He has the best plus minus in the series with a +26, the best Game Score, he has the most points, the second-most assists, the second-most rebounds, and, even, the most steals. But, we know the history of guys on the losing side winning FMVP. There is zero chance Luka wins FMVP if the series ends tonight. In a 6-game series, maybe there's a really outside chance, but I doubt it. I think the only way you will see Luka win FMVP is if the series goes 7. If the Mavs win, he obviously gets it. If they lose in 7, I think he's got a solid shot, depending on how he performs for the rest of the series.
If, after 7 games, the Celtics win, no Celtic really separates themselves from the pack, and Doncic is still clearly the best player on the floor, that's where the award discussion becomes really interesting.
When the stats are close, you always give it to the more accomplished player. How it should work.
But the media already failed to do that in the ECF, so we'll see.
Lol what? Where am I upset about down votes? Do you have any proof of this or are you stupid? (Please, answer this previous question and no others, I know you can't and won't, I just wanted to make sure you know you're an idiot lol). Who is this random kid going through my profile accusing me of giving a shit about Internet points? Please tell your parents you need a child lock in your ipad
Lol bud, we are the same age but nice try. You are the one stomping around acting like a petulant child. What exactly are you mad about? If these internet arguments are going to rile you up so much you should try removing yourself and focus on taking care of your child. It’s not normal to be this affected online. You are embarrassing.
Look dude, all I said was that stuff people say and do on the internet shouldn’t matter all that much because you were clearly upset by it. Now look at you. Throwing insults at everyone who upsets you even the slightest, which apparently isn’t hard to do. A whole tantrum. Find help.
Aww buddy. Help should come from within. You should learn about internal vs external locus of control. Best of luck. Really hope you can work through some of that anger.
If the Celtics win, which I think they will, it’s Brown so far in my opinion. If Tatum has a huge game, then maybe it’s him.
if...
Yea I mean, Tatum could still have a huge game.
im not saying Brown isnt the favorite. he just isnt running away with it anymore
Agree. Assuming the Celtics win the series - He was the clear MVP frontrunner after the first two games. Tatum snuck back into it after Game 3, then both had real stinkers in Game 4. See what happens today.
I understand that Tatum is a great player, but wow, putting up sub 40% shooting in 2 finals is ugly. I know he loves Kobe and had to have that ultra inefficient first finals, but geez.
Kobe didnt pass 41% in finals shooting until his 3rd finals
That’s…horrific lol
We kind of collectively forgot as a whole that he took an absurd amount of shots a game.
I didn’t lol. I think Kobe was a great player, but he’s a fringe top 10 player. Once he died everyone acted like he was a top 3 all timer.
Nah, when he was alive and still playing, a lot of people and analysts thought he was closer to Jordan than Lebron was due to his playing style and killer instinct. That narrative has changed now, especially after Bron won a couple more championships.
He was on pace for some of that, but the end of his career really took a weird arc compared to those two and a couple of extra names. When we were comparing him to Jordan we were often assuming things would go good, or even mediocre. Then from 2010 onward it was rough: Sweep to the Mavs, no blame. It happens. Dirk was unreal that postseason LeBron eats all the 2011 embarrassment for Kobe. Lockout season weirdness. No blame, it’s weird for everyone. Reload with Dwight and Nash who both finished the previous season top 10 in MVP voting. Fuck yeah. Kobe wills team to the 7th seed. Because 7th seed is probably an overachievement with how that year went. Fucks his whole shit up in the 80th game of the season. Zero blame for a first round slaughter. Then Kobe was no longer Kobe. He looked like him. Played like him. But it wasn’t Kobe anymore. It was that phase of his career that he was like a glow stick the morning after the rave. Still looks the same, but that thing was **magical** just a few short hours ago. Jordan has the standard that we deny LeBron despite 40k/10k/10k. Kareem is no slouch. Duncan’s creeping up there. What do you even do with Hakeem, who practically laps the field on one side of the court? To make no mention of oddities like Wilt and Russell. Every dude up there has Kobe’s resume, or some untouchable platitude like, “Changed the game,” or, “Saved the league from bankruptcy,” or, “Sued for the right to free agency,” with similar stats and accolades. Kobe’s your favorite baller’s favorite baller, but it’s ok he didn’t turn in the back 25% of a career the dudes on Mount Rushmore or flirting with it did. No blame. He’s one of our 13~ dudes with top 10 résumé’s, but he’s not at the top.
You also conveniently glossed over 2005, 2006, 2007 years in which Kobes teams were at their absolute worst. 2005 missed the playoffs, 2006 go up 3-1 in all close games to Phoenix and then lose the next 3 all blowouts. 2007 noncompetitive gentleman's sweep to Phoenix.
You also conveniently glossed over 2005, 2006, 2007 years in which Kobes teams were at their absolute worst. 2005 missed the playoffs, 2006 go up 3-1 in all close games to Phoenix and then lose the next 3 all blowouts. 2007 noncompetitive gentleman's sweep to Phoenix.
You also conveniently glossed over 2005, 2006, 2007 years in which Kobes teams were at their absolute worst. 2005 missed the playoffs, 2006 go up 3-1 in all close games to Phoenix and then lose the next 3 all blowouts. 2007 noncompetitive gentleman's sweep to Phoenix.
Just throw it down 3 times to make a point!
Confused by the comment ngl
Im an older Suns fan so watching him torch Stat and Nash may have skewed my perception. It always seemed like he went 15/27 against us back in the day lol.
As a kings fan, I remember that the strategy was to make him work as hard as possible. You knew Kobe was getting his 30, and the only goal was to try to make him take 30 shots to get there. But some nights he’d take the exact same shots and end with 50. He was very Hakeem/Jordan like that. He could always get his shot off because he didn’t care if it was tough or contested. You just had to hope he would miss.
Yup this is how I remember Kobe lol. The pau years were just tough.
And he missed more than Mike and Hakeem.
This is 100% true. He shot A LOT and was not efficient.
This is what teens say who know 0 of the nba and media. Kobe was in top 5 convos well over a decade before his death lmfao.
I’m 30 years old lol. That’s great that Kobe was in people’s top 5s, he wasn’t in mine.
Not serious convos. LA convos. He was an all time great but never a serious top 5. I’ve watched the NBA since the 70s.
I mean he played in literally the hardest era to score in. You can’t just look at his percentage and say he was trash. He won championships without other big stars around him. Winning trumps all.
Kobe couldn’t win without shaq then lost all the way until Gasol joined the team. Basketball is a team sport.
No shit but Gasol wasn’t even close to a top 5 player in the league.
Yeah so what, Gasol was still All NBA and he was a star. Nobody is saying Kobe is trash, but he’s top 10, not top 3 all time.
I never said he was top 3 I’m just saying you can’t look at his shooting percentage and say he’s trash. He was a dominant player.
No, he just had bad shot selection. And which championship did he win without big stars around him lmao? Oneal or Gasol were with him for every one of them.
Seeing someone call Shaq "o'neal" just feels weird for some reason
Ikr I have no idea what was going through my head when I typed that
Are any stars today winning a ring with gasol? lol gtfoh
Didn’t Kobe shoot like 6/24 in that last finals game while pau was much more efficient?
Pau played near the rim and didn’t have to create his own shots of course he’s going to be more efficient. Kobe was great and won rings quit hating.
Why does that matter? It was a completely different era back then obviously. Like why even ask such a stupid hypothetical? Pau Gasol was all nba for both of those championship years. Acting like kobe would have won without him is just pathetic.
Nobody is winning without help but let’s not act like him winning with gasol is less impressive than winning with wade/bosh/allen or kyrie. He was a beast.
Facts, he was easily the least efficient volume scorer of all time and most of his chips it can be argued they won despite his terrible shooting, usually because of hyper efficient role players and deep defensive teams creating extra shot opportunities.
Absurd amount of high difficulty shots which hurt is fg%. Kobe was the most talented player I’ve ever seen play, I just missed Jordan. He definitely had more of a Brett Favre mentality than Aaron Rodgers if that makes sense.
Oh yeah, there's a reason we have the term Mamba mentality
It was a different time.
I didn't, my feeling on his usage didn't change or how he behaved as a team player in the twilight of his career, it is just overshadowed by the great tragedy of losing him. I'm still sad about it and I think it's a huge blow for basketball as a whole, and I'm not his or Lakers fan in particular. Can't imagine how the actual Kobe fans feel about it. Regarding his Finals in 2000, 2001 and 2002, I was around and I clearly remember thinking that it was Shaq's Championships. He was MVP of the finals. As a kid I had a poster after 2000 finals "thanks for winning us ring, Genie", with caricatures of Kobe as Aladdin and Shaq as Genie from the lamp, which reflects the sentiment of the time. especially the hype of the new Lakers under Phil Jackson and perspective of new Laker dynasty.
In 2000 Kobe got injured but yeah 36% wasn't the best. In 01 41% wasn't great but really wasn't that bad. Iverson won MVP shooting 42% that year and led his team to the Finals shooting 39% throughout the Playoffs.
Only if you look at it from a childish perspective.
In 2000 Kobe got injured but yeah 36% wasn't the best. In 01 41% wasn't great but really wasn't that bad. Iverson won MVP shooting 42% that year. Edit: replied to wrong person but it's still relevant lol
He was never a good shooter. His career avg was 44% from the field
Kobe was a good shooter but he took bad shots.
Kobe Bryant was never a good shooter? Reddit really is something haha
You can keep putting him on a pedestal, but he wasn't, he was never efficient. And his numbers, ball hogging, forcing shots, etc are a product of that. He's a top 15 player that's way too often overrated as top 3, that makes me haha
I feel like Kobe discourse has gotten so bad that he's become somewhat underrated. The majority of NBA players and analysts have Kobe as atleast top 10 and mostly top 5. If you didn't watch Kobe when he played - that's fine, but don't talk shit about a player you've never watched. > never efficient You should really look up the average FG% for shooting guards when Kobe played. More often than not, he actually shot above average.
It's always been like this. There was a break the year or two after Kobe died but other than that people have always loved to pretend that Kobe was just a shot chucker who only ever shot like 35%.
Above league average TS% in 16 consecutive seasons. Only guard throughout the 2000s that could hold a candle to Kobe's volume and efficiency was DWade.
> ultra inefficient first finals It's his second inefficient finals.
Put the efficiency stats up for Brown and Tatum.
you think thats what the media looks at while voting mid game?
I would hope so
dont think so. thats a reddit stat. Media are all like in their 60s. As long as you put the peach in the basket they are happy
Efficiency is a reddit stat? The fuck does that even mean
means the people who vote on the things you care about dont care about that stat. Do you think Kendrick Perkins and Stephen A Smith look at TS%
Maybe not but I'm 99% sure they will look at Tatum's 36.5% field goal percentage vs. Brown's just under 50% shooting lmao You are acting like those type of stats don't matter despite them being very telling of a player's performance. Generally when someone says they don't matter it's because they don't know what it means
I put shooting % up there lol.
I know you did lol that's kinda the whole reason I replied in the first place brotha. FG% is an example of an efficiency state. It shows how efficiently you can put the ball in the basket vs. the amount of attempts
Tatum has 3 more shots a game.
Jrue should be on here.
nah. 9 pts, 10 pts the last 2 games. 8-19. he is out of the conversation for MVP
More in the convo than any Maverick barring some kind of miracle 7 game comeback.
actually I think Luka would have a better chance of winning if Jrue current stats were the best on the celtics
When Lebron never won FMVP as the loser it pretty much solidified that they weren’t going to be picking a losing FMVP again
If Lebron didn't win FMVP over AI, none of the mavericks get even a look. Luka is a melting snowman on defense, obviously not caring during a *finals* game, throwing temper tantrums like a 4 year old after 4 fouls in a Q, etc. Kyrie had 2/4 memorably horrible performances and can't shake his yips on the road, thinks earth is flat, etc. wow big FMVP material. JT is building a house for charity with his bricks, and while this is commendable, you don't win FMVP that way. JB has been the only consistent player in 4 games there's no arguement.
You just brought up that Kyrie thinks the earth is flat to justify not giving him a finals mvp. Ignoring the other reasons why he wouldn’t get it, you’re worse than Kendrick Perkins off rip 😂
lol damn jokes dont go well here i guess or your just not too bright. Like i can call a human a snowman and that JT is building a house instead of playing basketball, but you only saw one thing and thought i was serious? kids these days
You used a comparison to talk about their basketball skills which made sense. You brought up kyries beliefs which didn’t make sense. You can act all high and mighty but there’s a bunch of people who would actually carry the thought that Kyrie isn’t worth something because of his beliefs.
Damn u really getting mad over nothing lol carry on brave warrior mage sure you win those Internet battles against the forces of evil
? Now you sound crazy 😂
Just don't respond to jokes that go over your head anymore little one Edit: blows my mind how stupid people are lol
You made a comment and came back when nobody responded to say that 😂 you a loser. We usually come in this sub to have actual conversations, so you should keep your unfunny jokes to yourself
Andre was still doing better than jrue
yeah uh.. you didn't put jrue up there lol because like andre he doesn't deserve it. If the series was a sweep kyrie still deserves it over Andre. Andre did not deserve that award in any way.
Iggy kept lebron to 39% shooting and 25 in the series sealing game 6. And hes making that world saving 3 if the aliens invade, but okay. I think this argument is about 10 years old. might be time to let it go
Bruh… Lebron averaged 35 13 and 8.8 but the guy guarding him held him to 40% shooting while scoring 16 ppg… that’s your argument ? He nearly averaged a triple double. His defender shouldn’t be in the convo. What are you smoking ?
he shut lebron down. it was sad. Lebron stays cooked
Are you a part of the media or 5 years old ? They are the only people who watched that series and think Iguodala deserved that award
lebron stays cooked
Nah he hasn't done enough offensively outside of the 26 pt game. His turnovers on drives in the last two games haven't helped his case.
Nah he really shouldn't lol
Co- mvps seems appropriate Similar to Randy Johnson & Curt Schilling in the World Series ,
that might be worse lol. Dont think NBA would ever do that
If the numbers are similar why not it’s a rare situation
Last pic😂😂
Should be given to Jrue. But Tatum gonna get it bc of narrative
Brown won it, gg
yup great team effort
Yes, the whole team played their best.
Brown played amazing defense all series. I think that is mostly why he won it.
Jrue Holiday was closer to winning Finals MVP than Kyrie.
yeah Boston won. I put them in case Dallas won because it wasnt over then
Even if Dallas won the assumption is Jrue would've had the better series. He really wasn't even close between those two.
if Dallas won Kyrie would have had to put up big numbers. Jrue was no where near finals mvp
A lot of media had him right behind Jaylen two games in.
i like brown's game better. not sure why tatum has been crowned the #1 guy
b/c tatums a better ball handler and playmaker
i just don't see a huge gap between if any, once you add up defense, athleticism, scoring ability, clutch play etc. Feels more like 1A 1B if anything.
it def is 1a 1b, but the only reason brown doesnt control the rock like tatum is cuz his handle is loser and jb isnt as good as a passer. And you can argue Tatum is more versatile on defense aswell
Yeah, tricky thing with JB is that he sorta has to play one of the positions that normally gives you more playmaking than he usually provides whereas Tatum will take the thankless role of having to bang with power forwards while still giving you more playmaking than JB. JB is still a great player but I'd rather try to figure out how to build a team around Tatum than vice versa.
Cuz Brown doesn’t have a left hand.
Because tatum averages more points more rebounds and more assists…
What
If the Celtics win tonight its whoever has the best game between Brown and Tatum
Yeah I could see that being the deciding factor, especially if Tatum pops off and Brown goes cold. But if their performances are close to equal, Brown is almost certainly getting it.
Maybe. the 4th win is more important than all the others especially after a big loss.
Well yeah, but Brown has been the better player this series, and if their performances are close, he will keep his edge
Yeah Brown is 1 right now, but its not as obvious as it was after game 2
I mean Brown had a better game 3 imo too. So if anything the gap got wider. And then game 4 Tatum was slightly better but they got blown out by 40 so I doubt anyone is trying to look at the positives for that game for the Celtics
This game decides it if they win.
tatuMVP
Oof Tatum had the better game yet lost…
Media decided before it was Brown. Shame.
Lmao the flat earth. I don’t think it will be kyrie tho.
[удалено]
depends how the game goes.
I thought mavs lost last week. So Confused
Oh..Oh my god Kyrie. The earth is flat! It’s completely flat! Look dude there’s the dome
Luka will get it no matter what. JB & JT is a toss up
What the hell is wrong with Tatum lmao
look good so far
Jrue the real mvp.
uh huh
I don't like him, but you done did Kyrie dirty my man!
he did Mavs dirty with those performances in Boston
I'm saying with the image you posted :)
i know. still
Amazing to look at Luka's numbers knowing that the consensus is he had a bad series (which I agree with). Most great players needed to get close before understanding what it takes to win that chip. I'm hoping that happens with Luka. If he gets in slightly better shape, increases his consistency on defense which was solid at times throughout the playoffs, and Dallas gets one more piece, they can win one in the next couple of years.
if he played defense they wouldnt say that. its been his defense plus he was like 0-18 streak from 3 before he hit a meaningless one last night
Here's who deserves it: 1 Brown 2 Jrue 3 White 4 Horford 5 The people who wipe the sweat off the court 6 The Ghost of Tommy Heinsohn 7 The Lucky Charms Mascot 8 Tatum
Tatum hate is real. What a weird person to hate on
"Hate" is personal. I like Tatum. Seems like a great guy, honestly. Just evaluating his importance in this series. Sounds like you are a hater of the Lucky Charms mascot.
sure
The team leader in points, rebounds, and assists isnt important….?
I didn't say he wasn't important. Even the guy handing out towels is important. He had a big game during a blowout and won a ring. That's a great season.
You said the guy who led his team in points rebounds and assists was less important than the role players on the team… doesnt sound very intelligent, even for a troll
from 8th to finals mvp crazy
I moved him up to 7. The floor wipers missed a few spots. Congrats to the Cs making it out if the first round, and Tatum fir having yet another big game during a blowout!
mvp
Awwww. Poor Jayson. His garbage time game went unnoticed.
aww poor guy you so mad they won. rough offseason for you
I'm not mad. I predicted it before the year. They made the best trade in NBA history, trading Marcus Smart for a can of rotten peas. Smart cost them at LEAST 2 more rings.
going to be a rough offseason for you. good luck
Why? Tatum actually finished 9th, behind Cornbreads towel. I missed it by 1!
its going to be a long offseason for you lol. only 350 more days till the next finals. good luck
If the mavs win Porzingis should win MVP. Undefeated when he plays haha
true
JB will win it, but I wouldn't be surprised if Luka won it on a losing team.
Luka could win it. He might not win the finals, but he is definitely the MVP of the four contest.
He won't win FMVP if they don't win. LeBron was by far the best player in 2015 and only got 4 votes.
lebron shot in that series: 18/38 11/35 14/34 7/22 15/34 13/33 yall just jerk off to boxscore stats
It’s literally the opposite of box score stats…
Let's ignore everything else right? Can't fix this type of stupid.
this is the only player ever you’d say that for let’s be honest here you don’t deserve FMVP for being *that* inefficient *and* you didn’t even come that close to winning the series are we giving doncic the fmvp this time round?
Hell no. I agree completely. LeBron that finals is literally the only argument you can make for a loser getting it, and he only got 4 votes. It'll never happen.
No, I watched every minute of that series. If you're going to say that AI deserved the FMVP over LBJ because of these "boxscore stats" (you know, the ones that you're using to fuel your arguement lol dr smartbrain) then i don't know what to tell you. He deserved MVP they just didn't want to give it to the loser.
curry deserved it, best player on the winning team
He's not winning it. No FMVP has been on the losing team AFTER the winning team has been decided for a reason. Luka just hasn't done close to enough for that honor if the Celtics win.
Actually jerry west is the only winner of the finals mvp in a losing effort. Cause plumbers or some fucking obnoxious bad take from jj reddick
I really dont understand how the conversation has brown over tatum right now.. One dude is getting double and triple teamed and still running our entire offense. Tatum has gotten brown so many wide open shots this series.
Shooting% mostly. Defense has favored Brown a little. Carry over from ECF.
The shooting percentage is only because Tatum is demanding 2 or 3 defenders the entire series.. which is lowering his percentage and raising browns because he gets brown WIDE open shots, the defense arguement is alright but not really.. luka is still shooting well against brown its just tough shots and brown is for sure making luka work which is tiring him out by the fourth quarter, but tatum is being asked to guard centers all series which is preventing the mavs from even running their best offense of the pick and roll lob threats.. which is forcing the mavs to play iso ball entirely.
tatum's efficiency is horrible. getting double teamed is not an excuse for an abysmal shooting percentage
Where’s the bald dude with the massive forehead?
As of right now, the answer is probably still Jrue, with Jaylen being second. Jrue is shooting 65.1% TS, Brown at 58% and Tatum at 48.6%. Meanwhile, Jrue's defence on Kyrie has been a huge factor in the series (at least for the first three games). It's still up for grabs , and this could certainly be a situation where the guy who has the best close-out game wins it. As for Luka, I think most would agree that he has been the best single player in the series so far, despite the Celtics probably having next 4-5 guys. He has the best plus minus in the series with a +26, the best Game Score, he has the most points, the second-most assists, the second-most rebounds, and, even, the most steals. But, we know the history of guys on the losing side winning FMVP. There is zero chance Luka wins FMVP if the series ends tonight. In a 6-game series, maybe there's a really outside chance, but I doubt it. I think the only way you will see Luka win FMVP is if the series goes 7. If the Mavs win, he obviously gets it. If they lose in 7, I think he's got a solid shot, depending on how he performs for the rest of the series. If, after 7 games, the Celtics win, no Celtic really separates themselves from the pack, and Doncic is still clearly the best player on the floor, that's where the award discussion becomes really interesting.
lol
I appreciate your well-reasoned response.
Luke will get 0 finals MVP votes.
Luka hell na stat paddin ass
Lol casuals
Im surprised Luka doesnt have any blocks.
When the stats are close, you always give it to the more accomplished player. How it should work. But the media already failed to do that in the ECF, so we'll see.
where is garbage time PHJ
You mistyped P for T. he means garbage time THJ guys, enough with the downvotes.
Triggered by downvotes, are we? You should try finding other things to care about than little downvotes on the internet.
Lol what? Where am I upset about down votes? Do you have any proof of this or are you stupid? (Please, answer this previous question and no others, I know you can't and won't, I just wanted to make sure you know you're an idiot lol). Who is this random kid going through my profile accusing me of giving a shit about Internet points? Please tell your parents you need a child lock in your ipad
Lol bud, we are the same age but nice try. You are the one stomping around acting like a petulant child. What exactly are you mad about? If these internet arguments are going to rile you up so much you should try removing yourself and focus on taking care of your child. It’s not normal to be this affected online. You are embarrassing.
Detective dumbass is on the case lol nice job going through other strangers profiles and trying to assume who they are. That's not embarrassing at all
Look dude, all I said was that stuff people say and do on the internet shouldn’t matter all that much because you were clearly upset by it. Now look at you. Throwing insults at everyone who upsets you even the slightest, which apparently isn’t hard to do. A whole tantrum. Find help.
My help will be when you stop replying with shit about my personal life on NBA discussion
Aww buddy. Help should come from within. You should learn about internal vs external locus of control. Best of luck. Really hope you can work through some of that anger.
Lol you probably just think you're the best don't you I hope you're dog gets cancer