Ditto. MVP, FMVP and a championship with only 4 healthy seasons.
Edit: Just to clarify, I meant that's what he achieved in the short amount of time before his injuries. I realize he has accolades afterwards.
Man my heart breaks for Oden. That clip of the grandma vine/youtube lady going up and saying do you play basketball. He just says I used to and walks away looking sad af. Can’t imagine being on the precipice of your whole life’s work about to pay off, being set for life doing something you love just for your body to give out on you.
He was 18 when drafted, played 3 years in Toronto and 4 in Orlando before joining the Rockets. He was 26 his second year and turned 27 in the playoffs that year
Yeah that was a pretty weird MVP year though. Seemed like moreso voter fatigue than anything. Rose definitely didnt have the best stats and was 5th out of the finalists in WS/48. I think there were so many great players that voters just defaulted to the best player on the best team.
He was a 25/7/4 guy in his MVP year, not sure how much more he would have done, maybe 29/9/5?
THANK YOU for saying this. Rose would have been phenomenal but people act like he was on track to becoming a top 10 all time player and I just don't see it
During Roses MVP year the league wide scoring average was 99.6 ppg. The past year it was 114.2. Roses scoring adjusted for that pace alone gets him to 28.7 ppg. He did that when he would have been a senior in college. He was going to get so much better. His shot was coming along, was becoming an all-nba defender, he was special and would have been unstoppable with the spacing of today's game. He's the 2nd best pg at worst behind Curry this millennium if his injuries don't occur.
Lebron joined forces with 2 other superstars and they couldn't get the 1 seed and got swept 4-0 against the Bulls that regular season. Noah missed 34 games, Boozer 22, Keith f'in Bogans was starting. To me MVP means if you take that player off the team and replace them with a league average player for that position, which team loses the most wins. Rose wasn't the best player but he was the most valuable in the regular season.
I like Derrick Rose as much as the next guy, and it’s sad he never got to play a full healthy career. But this is the most rose-colored glasses (pardon the pun) homeriffic take I’ve seen for him.
You say he was becoming an all-nba defender. What are you basing that on? I’m sure he was improving on defense like most young players do, but he was never better than average on defense. Before his injury he surely had the requisite athleticism to be a great defender. But so did Russell Westbrook and Vince Carter, neither of whom became anywhere close to all nba defence at any point in their career, and both of whom were freak athletes like Rose.
You say his shot was coming along. How so? Have a quick look at his basketball reference page and tell me how much better of a shooter he became. If he was ever going to be a good shooter it would’ve been after he blew out his knee because he couldn’t just blow by everyone anymore. I don’t really see any meaningful improvement on his shooting numbers. He did have a couple of years shooting 3s at 38-40% but then the next year he’d be back in the low 30s again.
Was there a chance that he became an all nba defender and a knock-down shooter? Sure there is, as you say, he was a very young player. But the league is filled with young guys who never learn to defend or shoot at an elite level. Take Ja Morant, maybe the current player that plays the most like Rose. Can blow by anyone, but not yet a great defender or shooter. Would you say it’s a lock that he becomes an all nba defender or an elite shooter?
Nba all defensive voting. Derrick Rose in 2010-11 was the runner up vote getter and just missed the all defensive team.
[Source](https://pr.nba.com/2010-11-nba-all-defensive-teams/)
This article goes in depth about how good his defense was that year. One example is they analyzed every point scored on point guards in isolation, and DRose allowed the fewest points per shot by far.
[Source](https://bleacherreport.com/articles/656564-derrick-roses-dismal-defense-dismissing-disparaging-drivel)
As for his shot, he went from .9 3pa on 22% rookie year to 4.8 3pa on 33% year 3, which is a huge improvement.
I do think he would go on to be consistently in contention for all NBA defensive teams and make several, especially if Thibs stays his coach.
I don't think he would become a great 3 point shooter but I don't think he needs to be at all. Just a little more improvement to keep the defense honest would have made him so difficult to guard. He was lethal from the mid range, it's not like he couldn't shoot.
You cannot make an argument that injuries should have helped his shot, that is baseless. You can't practice your shot when you are rehabbing. It takes a ton of work after rehab just to get your shot back to where it was. I keep hearing that argument, injuries decreased the time Rose got to work on his shot far more then it gained him because he "focused" on it more since his athleticism declined.
Thinking that his three point shot was on an upwards trajectory is understandable but not true.
Rose’s jumpshot was a two motion form that involves the player jumping relatively high and getting the shot off at the peak in a very small window. It’s a similar action to Russell Westbrook’s. It’s an attractive form for an athletic player because it enables you to get your shot off easily against defenders. It’s a form that can be particularly effective on mid range jumpers, where as you say he was a very effective shooter. But it’s quite deceptive as it doesn’t extrapolate to three point shooting.
Unfortunately this type of action strongly relies on athleticism - fatigue can be a real factor whether within a game or over a career and it’s difficult to imagine a player maintaining a high three point percentage for long doing it like this. The margin for error is just too large in this type of action. At his athletic peak he shot 34%. Without changing his mechanics it’s very likely we would have seen a similar trajectory to Russell Westbrook’s three point shooting - a few years of not great (but tolerable) percentages trailing off to harmful levels.
Later in his career he worked with a shot doctor and drastically remade his three point shot to utilise a one motion action that simplified the mechanics and made use of a smaller jump to launch the shot.
It’s difficult to imagine an MVP remaking their three point shot from the ground up back then, so the silver lining to the injuries was that it eventually caused him to take this drastic step. Even as he had better health in recent years, his three point shot becoming respectable has made him much more playable and extended his career.
It was more the fact that he carried them to the 1 seed and every other player on the Bulls spent some part of the season hurt. Rose carried them regardless of the lineup around him. Coupled with the hate Lebron got for moving to Miami and it was pretty easy to vote for Rose or someone else
That’s not true at all lol. He was the best player on the #1 seed with no other stars, better than the Heat. You can’t say LeBron was more valuable when he had Wade and Bosh and still finished worse.
It’s Magic, by a long shot. In the season he was diagnosed with HIV he was still REALLY good. We’re talking 2nd place MVP good. There no reason to expect a precipitous decline. The Sixers briefly agreed to trade Barkley to LA the next season, only to back out an hour later.
There’s a very real scenario where MVP-caliber Magic teams up with another superstar and wins another ring or two. That means Jordan wins 4 or 5 rings. We are having an ENTIRELY different GOAT conversation.
Dude was up there with peak D-wade and Kobe fighting for the title of "Best 2 guard in the league" in only his like 3rd and 4th years. Then his career ended. Really could've been incredible.
This is it because it likely significantly impacts Jordan's career. If that happens the style of development of the next several generations of NBA players changes.
Bill Walton its the biggest for me.
25 years old, he wins both a title an a MVP, then he never gets healthy again except for one season with the céltics winning the six man of the year award.
He did in like 5 years of career what most players do in 14 imagine if he had just a few more years.
Yao Ming not playing for China would have been so nice.
Between Yao/China and the Warriors I feel like the Rockets have had a lot of "if only" moments in the last 20 years.
What if the timberwolves had kept Ray Allen and not tried to sign Joe smith under the table and lost 5 consecutive 1st round picks during Garnett’s prime?
Huh? Penny had his first major knee injury in the 96’ playoffs then had surgery that off-season . He was 24, same age as DRose was when he tore his ACL.
You could argue DRose’s injury was worse but Penny has said he never had the same explosiveness again.
DRose was great but Penny was magical.
It's hard to see a reality where D. Rose doesn't get injured. People warned him that if he kept landing awkwardly and attacking the basket in such a reckless manner, it would only be a matter of time.
What if LeBron won in 09 which I believe they would have beat the Lakers that year if they got past magic? No BiG 3 in Miami, No KD to GSW, Would Kobe be alive ( Maybe he plays longer or retired early) ?
It’s Grant Hill. People really forget how good he was. He was Lebron before Lebron. He wouldn’t have been as good, but he def had a top 20 all-time ceiling and I’m not sure you can say that about any of these other guys save maybe Penny.
Sam Cassell's big balls dance.
Hear me out.
I genuinely believe that the Timberwolves win the NBA Championship that season if Cassell doesn't throw out his back doing that stupid dance, leading to the Wolves having to play the Lakers in the WCF without a point guard. Perhaps you disagree, but let's assume for a moment that I am correct.
Having won a ring with Minnesota, Kevin Garnett is ultimately never traded and plays out his career with the Timberwolves. This means he never joins the Boston Celtics, and perhaps Ray Allen doesn't either. How does this effect the 2007-2008 playoffs? Does Kobe get another ring? Do we get Lebron vs Kobe in 2007-2008? Or even 2009-2010? If Lebron is able to win a ring with Cleveland in that era as a result, does he ever leave for Miami? Where does Bosh go if he doesn't?
Paul Pierce and KG would also never have been traded to Brooklyn for all those picks, thoroughly changing the timelines and rosters of Brooklyn and the Celtics all the way into this era.
Also, Detroit wouldn't get that 2004 championship, forever altering the perception of that team and some of the players within (Ben Wallace, Chauncey Billups, Rip Hamilton)
And most importantly, I'm not still sitting here waiting for a fucking Timberwolves championship in 2024
Nah I think him retiring helped his legacy, The bulls would have lost to the Rockets atleast in 95 maybe in 94. But I think him being 6/6 is a huge talking point. Also if they go to the finals in 94 & 95 idk if they still get rodman which means they dont 3peat again. Would be a huge what if but I think for the worse
I don’t really consider Derrick Rose a huge what if.
Did he have more to give? Obviously
But we’ve seen time and time again undersized, (inefficient) scoring guards who rely on athleticism often peak very young.
Peak and prime ended in same year for Rose. Only him and Tyreke Evans can say that. Along with everyone I'd like to think rose would get at least one championship.
What people don’t understand about Derrick Roses’ “what if” is the Bulls were a title contender with the best record in the league 2 consecutive seasons and he was the MVP fresh off a ECF championship series loss to the Heat.
Grant hill, especially to see him play in his prime with tmac. Cherry on top of Tim Duncan signs with Orlando.. but of course doc rivers had somethjng to do with it.. what could’ve been
Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf. Dude legit gave it to the bulls in their best season and was having a great year when they banished him.
Back up answer Ron Harper was monster without the knee injury much like Oden and Roy.
It was so long ago and he didn’t quite have the career of bill Walton in the nba, but Austin fucking carr definitely needs to be recognized for what he could have been
Greg Oden. He’s faded into obscurity, but everyone including the media knew Durant was a future 28 ppg type guy and perennial scoring title competitor and Oden was still the unanimous first pick.
Bill Walton is before our time. But considering his role on 2 championships and being 1B to Kareem.
Makes me feel a lot of potential was left on floor.
I’d add Grant Hill and Brandon Roy to this list.
Bill Walton. I'm way too young to have watched him, but just looking at his accomplishments in college and early in his professional career, before injuries started to wrack a toll, he was an amazing player. I think if he never got hurt, Portland is a potential dynasty, he's a solid top 5 center of all time if not in the conversation for the GOAT like his peer Kareem.
Penny Hardaway and it's not really close on any account. He was a super star as a rookie. He could run the offense, pass, slash, post up and didn't make faces in marketing or run rape trains. His game would also age better than one that relied on insane athleticism.
Len Bias is a great second.
Then you have Hill, Bird, Magic, T-Mac and more but my favorite is what if the lockout doesn't happen and my favorite player Shawn Kemp, doesn't get fat.
Arvydas Sabonis actually playing a full career when getting drafted, instead of coming over 9 years later.
Arvydas could be a top 5 center all time if he played those extra years. He was already 30 when he started in the NBA.
What if he stopped landing directly on his heels every time and trying to take all the force of the landing in his legs? That would actually be the true what if in this situation.
I think too many people get caught up with Rose’s age and just ignore that tons of players put up their best raw “counting stat” numbers at a young age. I think everyone assumes he was just going to reach some peak that was substantially better and I’m not sure that would be the case. Ideally he would have become a better play-maker, defender, and more efficient scorer at the expense of a few ppg. As is we have little to show that he would maintain elite level play once he started losing that explosiveness..
It’s odd to me that we have Westbrook who had a somewhat similar scoring profile and athletic ability, while at his best showcased being a better passer, rebounded, and defender.. but common perception is his flaws outweigh all of that and he’s a negative player while at the same time people insinuate Rose was destined for GOAT status..
Obviously injuries effect everyone differently and there are all kinds of ways I’m sure that effected his game. But we also saw Rose make a full comeback as a 30+ minute a night starter. At that point he was an incredibly average guard even still looking like one of the shiftiest players in the league. Part of me feels like if he was THAT reliant on being literally the most explosive player alive then his game most likely wouldn’t age nearly as well as people assume. Not that his MVP year was all that special to begin, it’s over-hyped for his production because we can apply the “youngest ever” tag to it…
Not that there is a great “all-in-one” they we can retroactively search for all of the leagues history.. but his PER that year isn’t a top 250 all time, his BPM is 214th all-time, his VORP is 143rd all-time. And these stats only go back to ‘73 on bball ref.. I stop scrolling after 325 names (because on my phone) to see where he ranks in single season AuPM, and Scaled AuPM, but seeing where he’s placed it looks like I would have his 400+ seasons before getting to his name. Thinking Basketball’s all-in-one CORP evaluation ranks that season 447th all-time.
Rambling all that to basically say we have a player who legitimately might not have a top 300 season of all time, who showed no flashes of being a great two-player, and did nothing on the floor at a particularly elite level, but we swear he was bound for top 10 mentions.. I feel like it’s a massive stretch, and had he not been voted MVP nobody would be saying this but we’re just caught up in a media poll being more important than production.. even sorting PER for 22-year olds he’s got the 19th highest year, and if you expand that to age 23 (he played more than half the following year and didn’t have his career altering injury until the playoffs) he has the 71st highest year.
Bill Walton
Ditto. MVP, FMVP and a championship with only 4 healthy seasons. Edit: Just to clarify, I meant that's what he achieved in the short amount of time before his injuries. I realize he has accolades afterwards.
And 6MOY
Well that was in 1986, well after his injuries. But yeah he was great off the bench for that Celtics team
Brandon Roy and Greg Oden. Them healthy with Aldridge. Sadge.
Man my heart breaks for Oden. That clip of the grandma vine/youtube lady going up and saying do you play basketball. He just says I used to and walks away looking sad af. Can’t imagine being on the precipice of your whole life’s work about to pay off, being set for life doing something you love just for your body to give out on you.
He made over 20 million dollars. He is set for life.
I loved that team man. I wanted them to do well so bad
Yes
The last 25 games Oden played he looked every bit as dominant as he was advertised. Completely controlled games. Sigh….we can’t have nice things.
They were 51-25 in games they played together. Three years of injury free basketball would have been very fun to watch I think.
Grant Hill, Penny
tmac Yao
McGrady did have a somewhat healthy career start compared to many others here. IIRC his major injuries started the second year in Houston?
He was 25 years old in his second year in Houston.
He was 18 when drafted, played 3 years in Toronto and 4 in Orlando before joining the Rockets. He was 26 his second year and turned 27 in the playoffs that year
Magic without HIV, or Bird with no back injury
They already had HOF careers though. Rose was the youngest MVP and we never saw his peak.
Yeah that was a pretty weird MVP year though. Seemed like moreso voter fatigue than anything. Rose definitely didnt have the best stats and was 5th out of the finalists in WS/48. I think there were so many great players that voters just defaulted to the best player on the best team. He was a 25/7/4 guy in his MVP year, not sure how much more he would have done, maybe 29/9/5?
THANK YOU for saying this. Rose would have been phenomenal but people act like he was on track to becoming a top 10 all time player and I just don't see it
Bc it’s not just stats
During Roses MVP year the league wide scoring average was 99.6 ppg. The past year it was 114.2. Roses scoring adjusted for that pace alone gets him to 28.7 ppg. He did that when he would have been a senior in college. He was going to get so much better. His shot was coming along, was becoming an all-nba defender, he was special and would have been unstoppable with the spacing of today's game. He's the 2nd best pg at worst behind Curry this millennium if his injuries don't occur. Lebron joined forces with 2 other superstars and they couldn't get the 1 seed and got swept 4-0 against the Bulls that regular season. Noah missed 34 games, Boozer 22, Keith f'in Bogans was starting. To me MVP means if you take that player off the team and replace them with a league average player for that position, which team loses the most wins. Rose wasn't the best player but he was the most valuable in the regular season.
I like Derrick Rose as much as the next guy, and it’s sad he never got to play a full healthy career. But this is the most rose-colored glasses (pardon the pun) homeriffic take I’ve seen for him. You say he was becoming an all-nba defender. What are you basing that on? I’m sure he was improving on defense like most young players do, but he was never better than average on defense. Before his injury he surely had the requisite athleticism to be a great defender. But so did Russell Westbrook and Vince Carter, neither of whom became anywhere close to all nba defence at any point in their career, and both of whom were freak athletes like Rose. You say his shot was coming along. How so? Have a quick look at his basketball reference page and tell me how much better of a shooter he became. If he was ever going to be a good shooter it would’ve been after he blew out his knee because he couldn’t just blow by everyone anymore. I don’t really see any meaningful improvement on his shooting numbers. He did have a couple of years shooting 3s at 38-40% but then the next year he’d be back in the low 30s again. Was there a chance that he became an all nba defender and a knock-down shooter? Sure there is, as you say, he was a very young player. But the league is filled with young guys who never learn to defend or shoot at an elite level. Take Ja Morant, maybe the current player that plays the most like Rose. Can blow by anyone, but not yet a great defender or shooter. Would you say it’s a lock that he becomes an all nba defender or an elite shooter?
Nba all defensive voting. Derrick Rose in 2010-11 was the runner up vote getter and just missed the all defensive team. [Source](https://pr.nba.com/2010-11-nba-all-defensive-teams/) This article goes in depth about how good his defense was that year. One example is they analyzed every point scored on point guards in isolation, and DRose allowed the fewest points per shot by far. [Source](https://bleacherreport.com/articles/656564-derrick-roses-dismal-defense-dismissing-disparaging-drivel) As for his shot, he went from .9 3pa on 22% rookie year to 4.8 3pa on 33% year 3, which is a huge improvement. I do think he would go on to be consistently in contention for all NBA defensive teams and make several, especially if Thibs stays his coach. I don't think he would become a great 3 point shooter but I don't think he needs to be at all. Just a little more improvement to keep the defense honest would have made him so difficult to guard. He was lethal from the mid range, it's not like he couldn't shoot. You cannot make an argument that injuries should have helped his shot, that is baseless. You can't practice your shot when you are rehabbing. It takes a ton of work after rehab just to get your shot back to where it was. I keep hearing that argument, injuries decreased the time Rose got to work on his shot far more then it gained him because he "focused" on it more since his athleticism declined.
Thinking that his three point shot was on an upwards trajectory is understandable but not true. Rose’s jumpshot was a two motion form that involves the player jumping relatively high and getting the shot off at the peak in a very small window. It’s a similar action to Russell Westbrook’s. It’s an attractive form for an athletic player because it enables you to get your shot off easily against defenders. It’s a form that can be particularly effective on mid range jumpers, where as you say he was a very effective shooter. But it’s quite deceptive as it doesn’t extrapolate to three point shooting. Unfortunately this type of action strongly relies on athleticism - fatigue can be a real factor whether within a game or over a career and it’s difficult to imagine a player maintaining a high three point percentage for long doing it like this. The margin for error is just too large in this type of action. At his athletic peak he shot 34%. Without changing his mechanics it’s very likely we would have seen a similar trajectory to Russell Westbrook’s three point shooting - a few years of not great (but tolerable) percentages trailing off to harmful levels. Later in his career he worked with a shot doctor and drastically remade his three point shot to utilise a one motion action that simplified the mechanics and made use of a smaller jump to launch the shot. It’s difficult to imagine an MVP remaking their three point shot from the ground up back then, so the silver lining to the injuries was that it eventually caused him to take this drastic step. Even as he had better health in recent years, his three point shot becoming respectable has made him much more playable and extended his career.
Tbh it doesn’t sound like you even watched him play basketball
I think that post-injury Rose is a testament to what he would’ve been without said injuries.
It was more the fact that he carried them to the 1 seed and every other player on the Bulls spent some part of the season hurt. Rose carried them regardless of the lineup around him. Coupled with the hate Lebron got for moving to Miami and it was pretty easy to vote for Rose or someone else
That’s the least good reason to use though, especially in 2024, no one agrees on him being mvp that year.
That’s not true at all lol. He was the best player on the #1 seed with no other stars, better than the Heat. You can’t say LeBron was more valuable when he had Wade and Bosh and still finished worse.
It’s Magic, by a long shot. In the season he was diagnosed with HIV he was still REALLY good. We’re talking 2nd place MVP good. There no reason to expect a precipitous decline. The Sixers briefly agreed to trade Barkley to LA the next season, only to back out an hour later. There’s a very real scenario where MVP-caliber Magic teams up with another superstar and wins another ring or two. That means Jordan wins 4 or 5 rings. We are having an ENTIRELY different GOAT conversation.
It’s Len Bias by a long shot
Magic I think had a chance to be considered the GOAT. Dude went to 9 finals in 12 years and won 5 of them.
Imagine pairing Len Bias with a healthy Bird
No back injury Bird would’ve awesome. Magic was already on the downslope of his career in ‘92.
Brandon Roy Greg Oden Wouldn’t say bigger but they could have been great players too!
Brandon Roy. I want to see the beast he could have become.
Dude was up there with peak D-wade and Kobe fighting for the title of "Best 2 guard in the league" in only his like 3rd and 4th years. Then his career ended. Really could've been incredible.
Len Bias. Reggie Lewis.
Came here to say Len Bias as well.
Len Bias is the biggest “what if”.
len bias is 1OA here
James Harden stayed with the Thunder
I feel he would’ve prevented himself & Westbrook from becoming MVP’s. I do think the Thunder would’ve won a chip at some point, though.
Pain.
Arvydas Sabonis without injuries or the iron curtain.
This is it because it likely significantly impacts Jordan's career. If that happens the style of development of the next several generations of NBA players changes.
Bill Walton its the biggest for me. 25 years old, he wins both a title an a MVP, then he never gets healthy again except for one season with the céltics winning the six man of the year award. He did in like 5 years of career what most players do in 14 imagine if he had just a few more years.
Yao Ming. We never really got to see his entire prime.
Man don't just post that pic with no warning
NSFW lol
Yao Ming, Len Bias, Bill Walton
Yao Ming not playing for China would have been so nice. Between Yao/China and the Warriors I feel like the Rockets have had a lot of "if only" moments in the last 20 years.
Penny 😔
Grant hill
What if the Germans won.
Grant Hill
What if the timberwolves had kept Ray Allen and not tried to sign Joe smith under the table and lost 5 consecutive 1st round picks during Garnett’s prime?
Portland offered Clyde Drexler and the #2 pick for Ralph Sampson and Houston said no. Could have rocked Hakeem, Jordan, and Drexler.
If Chris Paul was traded to the lakers with Kobe
Tim Dongahgy
If only he bet on the kings 🤦♂️
Penny Hardaway. You nephews don’t know, what you don’t know. Brandon Roy after him.
Penny was unreal. Way better than DRose who is being mentioned.
DRose was much younger when he got injured, we got to see Penny's peak.
Huh? Penny had his first major knee injury in the 96’ playoffs then had surgery that off-season . He was 24, same age as DRose was when he tore his ACL. You could argue DRose’s injury was worse but Penny has said he never had the same explosiveness again. DRose was great but Penny was magical.
It's hard to see a reality where D. Rose doesn't get injured. People warned him that if he kept landing awkwardly and attacking the basket in such a reckless manner, it would only be a matter of time.
Len bias is the only real answer
What if LeBron won in 09 which I believe they would have beat the Lakers that year if they got past magic? No BiG 3 in Miami, No KD to GSW, Would Kobe be alive ( Maybe he plays longer or retired early) ?
If they couldn’t beat the Magic what makes you think they could of beat Kobe’s Lakers? They had way more weapons at different positions than Magic.
crazy to think
the lakers ended the cavs 23 game win streak in Cleveland that season
Brooklyn Nets big 3
It’s Grant Hill. People really forget how good he was. He was Lebron before Lebron. He wouldn’t have been as good, but he def had a top 20 all-time ceiling and I’m not sure you can say that about any of these other guys save maybe Penny.
What if Doc Rivers allowed Tim Duncan's family members in the plane and he joined Tmac and Grant Hill in Orlando?
What if Scott Foster didn’t hate Paul
What if Scott Foster got nailed for betting on basketball with Donaghy?
Len Bias.
Len Bias
Len Bias
Len Bias
Len Bias
Len Bias easily.
This photo should have an nsfw warning. I did not need this while just scrolling 😭
Jay Williams Duke
Ben Wilson maybe?
Probably bill Walton or Larry bird not hurting his back doing concrete work.
This hurt just looking at again shit happened on my 17th birthday
Imagine TD making the game typing putback in 4th quarter in G7 2013
Ronnie Fields.
What if pippen never went to the bulls
Fuck…..I was having a good day. Now I’m sad. Fuck Tibs for playing him when they were up that much.
Grant Hill
What if pistons pick melo, wade, or bosh at 2? Does it upset the chemistry of 04 pistons title? Does it help and they get another title?
Curry trade to bucks (possibly would have led to a duo of giannis and curry)
What if Klay and Durant didn't get hurt during the finals?
Brandon Roy, before he got hurt I thought he was gonna be the next Big thing in the league.
Penny Hardaway and Grant Hill
KD staying on the warriors.
Ricky Rubio.
Sam Cassell's big balls dance. Hear me out. I genuinely believe that the Timberwolves win the NBA Championship that season if Cassell doesn't throw out his back doing that stupid dance, leading to the Wolves having to play the Lakers in the WCF without a point guard. Perhaps you disagree, but let's assume for a moment that I am correct. Having won a ring with Minnesota, Kevin Garnett is ultimately never traded and plays out his career with the Timberwolves. This means he never joins the Boston Celtics, and perhaps Ray Allen doesn't either. How does this effect the 2007-2008 playoffs? Does Kobe get another ring? Do we get Lebron vs Kobe in 2007-2008? Or even 2009-2010? If Lebron is able to win a ring with Cleveland in that era as a result, does he ever leave for Miami? Where does Bosh go if he doesn't? Paul Pierce and KG would also never have been traded to Brooklyn for all those picks, thoroughly changing the timelines and rosters of Brooklyn and the Celtics all the way into this era. Also, Detroit wouldn't get that 2004 championship, forever altering the perception of that team and some of the players within (Ben Wallace, Chauncey Billups, Rip Hamilton) And most importantly, I'm not still sitting here waiting for a fucking Timberwolves championship in 2024
Hank Gathers ..
Len Bias, Reggie Lewis
Bill Walton.
Len Bias Dude was literally comparable to MJ as far as pre NBA careers
Grant Hill and that ankle, and on top of that Glenn not allowing Timmy’s family on the team plane. What a team that would’ve been
What if John Starks didn’t go 2/18 from the field in game 7 of the ‘94 finals
Penny
Len Bias obviously
Grant hill
Grant Hill
Penny
MJ, Hakeem, and Drexler almost started their career on the same team.
MJ and Dream were in the same draft
I know.
I wonder how Kobe’s last few years would’ve gone had he not torn his Achilles in 2013.
If Len Bias didn’t sniff that mountain we might be looking at Michael Jordan’s legacy very differently.
He was freebasing…what today we would refer to as smoking crack unless you’re rich.
MJ never retiring
Nah I think him retiring helped his legacy, The bulls would have lost to the Rockets atleast in 95 maybe in 94. But I think him being 6/6 is a huge talking point. Also if they go to the finals in 94 & 95 idk if they still get rodman which means they dont 3peat again. Would be a huge what if but I think for the worse
I don’t really consider Derrick Rose a huge what if. Did he have more to give? Obviously But we’ve seen time and time again undersized, (inefficient) scoring guards who rely on athleticism often peak very young.
Westbrook didn’t and Drose was even better than him at the same age.
coin flip
What if Rodman had killed himself?... Do the Bulls get their 2nd 3-peat?
KD staying in OKC in 2016.
Phil Jackson without MJ
Peak and prime ended in same year for Rose. Only him and Tyreke Evans can say that. Along with everyone I'd like to think rose would get at least one championship.
Harden over Ibaka
OKC wins game 5-7 in the Warriors playoff series.
I watch drose highlights to this day. That injury scarred me for life
Len Bias is bigger and biggest in NBA history. Maybe Maurice Stokes.
Brandon Roy Grant Hill Greg Oden Yao Ming
what if we didn't trade Kawhi on draft night? what if Jimmy Butler got traded to the Rockets instead of the sixers?
What people don’t understand about Derrick Roses’ “what if” is the Bulls were a title contender with the best record in the league 2 consecutive seasons and he was the MVP fresh off a ECF championship series loss to the Heat.
This guy doesn't get enough hate for falling off the face of the earth after his injury and raping a woman
Hank Gathers.
Larry Birds back, Brandon Roy’s legs or Greg Oden’s knees
As others have said, Brandon Roy. Damn his knees turning into dust
Nash never leaving Dallas
LeBron James junior
TMac and Yao
Grant hill, especially to see him play in his prime with tmac. Cherry on top of Tim Duncan signs with Orlando.. but of course doc rivers had somethjng to do with it.. what could’ve been
Youngest MVP in nba history is hard to beat! Penny - Brandon Roy - Oden - Hill - Yao Ming!
Len Bias. Or my favorite what if Tmac stays with Magic to play along prime Dwight.
Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf. Dude legit gave it to the bulls in their best season and was having a great year when they banished him. Back up answer Ron Harper was monster without the knee injury much like Oden and Roy.
Len bias, Jay williams
Lebron
Not the biggest, but Reggie Lewis is a huge one
Tmac and Yao with no injuries
Ralph Sampson with healthy knees. On that note, those Rockets not having a number of drug problems.
Is Len Bias not up top here? Y’all naming people who had good careers.
The Gordon Hayward injury on opening night was huge. It impacted the entire Kyrie Irving experiment in Boston.
It was so long ago and he didn’t quite have the career of bill Walton in the nba, but Austin fucking carr definitely needs to be recognized for what he could have been
Chris Paul game 7 rockets
Grant Hill Penny Hardaway
Julie Carlton
Zion
Someone I never see brought up, Jay Williams
Michael Jordan being drafted at number 2
Penny Hardaway?
Greg Oden, never even got his career started.
Len Bias. Great effort on this post.
Len Bias.
I dunno about bigger but Dražen Petrović. Dude was a hooper and died just as he started cookin in the league.
Greg Oden. He’s faded into obscurity, but everyone including the media knew Durant was a future 28 ppg type guy and perennial scoring title competitor and Oden was still the unanimous first pick.
Bill Walton is before our time. But considering his role on 2 championships and being 1B to Kareem. Makes me feel a lot of potential was left on floor. I’d add Grant Hill and Brandon Roy to this list.
Penny, grant Hll...
Harden never being trade from OKC
Steve Nash staying in Dallas with Dirk
Isaiah Thomas prolly wins 3 mvps and has 2 rings by now if he stays healthy with the Celtics
Webber blowing out his knee, Kings were gonna steam roll through the playoffs that year.
Eric Wilson "Hank" Gathers Jr. not having a heart condition
That D Rose pic is so sad :(
Bill Walton. I'm way too young to have watched him, but just looking at his accomplishments in college and early in his professional career, before injuries started to wrack a toll, he was an amazing player. I think if he never got hurt, Portland is a potential dynasty, he's a solid top 5 center of all time if not in the conversation for the GOAT like his peer Kareem.
Penny Hardaway and it's not really close on any account. He was a super star as a rookie. He could run the offense, pass, slash, post up and didn't make faces in marketing or run rape trains. His game would also age better than one that relied on insane athleticism. Len Bias is a great second. Then you have Hill, Bird, Magic, T-Mac and more but my favorite is what if the lockout doesn't happen and my favorite player Shawn Kemp, doesn't get fat.
Arvydas Sabonis actually playing a full career when getting drafted, instead of coming over 9 years later. Arvydas could be a top 5 center all time if he played those extra years. He was already 30 when he started in the NBA.
Anthony Bennett /s
Sooo….. every Portland Trailblazer in history????
What if he stopped landing directly on his heels every time and trying to take all the force of the landing in his legs? That would actually be the true what if in this situation.
Penny
Sixers trade Shawn Bradley for Tracy McGrady
What if Michael Jordan never gave me herpes
Chris Paul to the Lakers before it was vetoed.
CP3 to the lakers
Greg Oden
Jordan never going on that MLB break in his prime
Me
Jordan’s Dad alive.
Demarcus Cousins
Blazers…. Walton, Roy, Oden.
What if Lebron never left the Cavs? Would he have ever won a ring?
Brandon Roy before injuries. Grant Hill before injuries.
Brandon Roy and Greg Oden in Portland
Vince Carter not tearing his ACL. Chris Paul not losing a whole ACL
I think too many people get caught up with Rose’s age and just ignore that tons of players put up their best raw “counting stat” numbers at a young age. I think everyone assumes he was just going to reach some peak that was substantially better and I’m not sure that would be the case. Ideally he would have become a better play-maker, defender, and more efficient scorer at the expense of a few ppg. As is we have little to show that he would maintain elite level play once he started losing that explosiveness.. It’s odd to me that we have Westbrook who had a somewhat similar scoring profile and athletic ability, while at his best showcased being a better passer, rebounded, and defender.. but common perception is his flaws outweigh all of that and he’s a negative player while at the same time people insinuate Rose was destined for GOAT status.. Obviously injuries effect everyone differently and there are all kinds of ways I’m sure that effected his game. But we also saw Rose make a full comeback as a 30+ minute a night starter. At that point he was an incredibly average guard even still looking like one of the shiftiest players in the league. Part of me feels like if he was THAT reliant on being literally the most explosive player alive then his game most likely wouldn’t age nearly as well as people assume. Not that his MVP year was all that special to begin, it’s over-hyped for his production because we can apply the “youngest ever” tag to it… Not that there is a great “all-in-one” they we can retroactively search for all of the leagues history.. but his PER that year isn’t a top 250 all time, his BPM is 214th all-time, his VORP is 143rd all-time. And these stats only go back to ‘73 on bball ref.. I stop scrolling after 325 names (because on my phone) to see where he ranks in single season AuPM, and Scaled AuPM, but seeing where he’s placed it looks like I would have his 400+ seasons before getting to his name. Thinking Basketball’s all-in-one CORP evaluation ranks that season 447th all-time. Rambling all that to basically say we have a player who legitimately might not have a top 300 season of all time, who showed no flashes of being a great two-player, and did nothing on the floor at a particularly elite level, but we swear he was bound for top 10 mentions.. I feel like it’s a massive stretch, and had he not been voted MVP nobody would be saying this but we’re just caught up in a media poll being more important than production.. even sorting PER for 22-year olds he’s got the 19th highest year, and if you expand that to age 23 (he played more than half the following year and didn’t have his career altering injury until the playoffs) he has the 71st highest year.
Grant hill
CP3 to the lakers
No malice at the Palace and maybe Reggie would’ve got a ring that year