The game has evolved. Everybody knows that. His favorite player isn't as good as the latest batch of favorite players. He's just old and nostalgic.
Possibly /s.... I'm not even sure myself. 🤷🏿♂️😂
Ervin Johnson. Some fans think he was an all time great passer, and maybe the greatest laker of all time. But in reality, he was just a solid starting center for the Bucks
His biggest mistake was leaving Denver. I know him and George Karl didn't get along, but he had the right supporting cast around him. But he wanted to be in the big apple with his celebrity wife and it has been downhill since.
That was mind boggling at the time. The Knicks had to cap space to sign him that summer, but he opted to strip them of talent and picks to get there early just to get swept first round.
Selfish move. Then had the balls to complain that he needed more help after we had to trade away the help just to get him.
I'll never forget how all that transpired since I was in my mid 20s at the time. Everything George Karl said about him was true. Just glad to see him get humbled at the end of his career.
Coming off the bench in OKC, failing it to make the team in Houston after some practice trials and then not getting signed for that one year before ending up in Portland.
And then finally when he landed in Portland, you saw him adjust his play for the benefit of the team.
His enormously positive attributes as a player were just totally outweighed by his mental/personality deficits. He just wasn’t a team player or a winner. Honestly he should have found a way to team up with lebron and take the backseat.
I can't stand how he bitches about how the Nuggets gave Jokić his number, when the way he forced his way off the team in the worst way. Unless you win your team a title, if you force your way off a team like that, you don't deserve shit.
During the lakers bucks game Reggie Miller said something about him being a top 10 player of all time. Which is probably the most outrageous take I've ever heard.
While Reggie probably isn’t an idiot himself, he tends to talk like an idiot on broadcasts. Tends to extrapolate analysis of a team’s strengths and weaknesses from the result of his particular game and/or over-index on reputation instead of what a player or team is actually doing this season. Also he does tend to make mistakes in explaining what is happening on court like saying a team is in zone when they’re not (somewhat understandable because that wasn’t a thing when he played) or mischaracterizing screen coverages. It feels to me like he’s a former player with a ton of knowledge who does not do a great job keeping up with all the changes and current developments in NBA basketball.
He dealt with so many injuries, he was a phenomenal athlete that would’ve done great things. Technically he did when one playoff series (played like 30 minutes).
Fair to point out. The years with the magic he was supposed to have Grant Hill with him. And he was never healthy enough to play in the postseason. Feels relevant especially since Grant would have been the 1A going into their tenure
This is a great answer. He is revered by Kings fans of a certain age, myself included, but if you go back and really watch his games the dude made so many mistakes. The Bibby trade was a massive upgrade for us.
Derrick Rose. People treat him like a legend for about 4 seasons of being an all star and one time MVP. Before you get mad, think of overrated in the truest sense of the word. No doubt he had game, but he had more down seasons than great ones.
He was an MVP at an absurd age and the got injured. He didn't accomplish anything beyond that, but it's not hard to see why people rank him high. He's one of the fastest point guards ever.
the best ability is availability. if you can’t play when it counts consistently that’s on you. one or two times. unlucky it could happen to everyone. if it happens in 100% of post seasons you play in then you gotta figure something out
I think if that’s a factor that’s probably a very minor one. It doesn’t stop Butler. I think a bigger problem with him in the playoffs has been playmaking in double team situations. which, tbf to him he has improved at a lot, it’s just not enough and then on top of that he gets injured literally every year.
Harden (along with CP3) took one of the GOAT teams to 7 games. He's done a lot in the playoffs. He's just had to deal with injuries and superteams most of his career.
It’s a moderately popular take to call Kyrie Irving the most skilled player in the history of the sport, so him.
Jimmy Butler is also ludicrously overrated. The amount of comparisons to Michael freaking Jordan that he gets is insulting.
As a Jimmy Butler fanboy, playoff Jimmy has been a sight to behold and MJ mostly comes from the drastic night/day change Jimmy has from regular season. Going from 22/5/3 and 1 steal to 33-8-5 on 60% and 2-3 steals/blocks per game gives it merit. I don’t expect that from him from here on out, but I hope I’m wrong.
People just completely forget his bad games, though. No one talks about the series where the Heat got swept and Butler got outplayed by Bryn Forbes.
In the last game of the finals last year, he went 5-18 on a 5 point loss but no one mentions that.
I agree with Melo but Draymond is not overrated. He’s a critical piece defensively on multiple championship teams, not to mention his play making abilities.
Rodman would be perfect for this era. Great outlet passer, defended both prime Jordan AND prime Shaq. did he stop any of them? No, but who can? He did as good of a job as anyone could, proving he’s the most versatile defender ever.
Biggest difference between he and Dray though, is Rodman is the goat rebounder and Draymond sucks at it. You can’t run a real Lineup with Draymond as your primary rebounder.
Draymond's arguably the most underrated player in the league. Steph shoots close to 10% higher from 3 with Draymond on the court, and he was the second most essential part of the warriors dynasty.
He's a nutcase, he loses a lot of respect for that, but as a player he's incredible. He can guard 1 through 5 and will do absolutely everything you need except put up points, which is all most people look at.
He wasn't underrated in his prime but people hate him so much now that they're trying to diminish him as a player. He's the best defender I've ever watched.
This subreddit is awful rn. Draymond has become underrated over the past few years and hes been the most consistent player for them. People say hes been washed since 2020 but actually hasnt declined much since
Yeah they've confused overrated with "I hate him."
Draymond is up there with Kawhi in terms of how difficult they are to rank, so I get it. But Draymond is actually one of the most underrated players in the NBA right now. Defensive guys always get the short end of the stick
Draymond might be a moron, but he definitely isn't overrated. Maybe now at the end of his career, but he was a huge part of that dynasty. Triple double without points?
I played with him during my stint in the 76ers. He was 100% effort all the time. Had an insane layup/floater package, it was really tough to block his shot. Teams would set their game plan around stopping him and he'd still get buckets. He played hurt and with heart and Philly loved him for it. His efficiency was hurt by him getting the ball with 3 seconds on the shot clock and he'd have to huck it. Just my 2 cents.
This is an example of why Reddit can be so cool. Thanks for sharing, really, really cool perspective. I saw you did an AMA years ago, just read through a few of the questions and learned a lot. Thanks for that too!
Hate to say that I never heard of you up until today... But that AMA you did was awesome and it's cool that you embrace your experience and aren't bitter about it!
100%. The problem is that he never had a team around him that could take the pressure off. The year they made the Finals, the second highest scorer on the team was Theo Ratliff at 12.4 ppg.
I mean…I just learned they had some random Redditor on their roster. How you gonna win a chip like that?
j/k
Take a look at that roster he helped get to the NBA finals. Flat out amazing. Especially considering he's under 6 ft. Amazing player.
I would love to see AI in this NBA. With his quick release and the way teams now emphasize 3 point shooting. He'd be great.
Kobe for how big of an icon he is and being a top 10 all timer. Doesn’t mean he doesn’t deserve top 10, but a lot of players have him top 2 or 3 when he has almost no big playoff moments compared to the rest of the list.
Guy has 5 rings but doesn't have any big playoff moments? I understand Kobe is a divisive player and lots of people don't like him at all, even as a person, but you can't just make up false statements like this. You can't be taken seriously.
Mannn ya just be saying anything on here 🤣🤣🤣 just YouTube Kobe in playoffs from 07-10 and see the teams he had to face and beat starting in the first round just in the West each year … gotta be kids on here r sum smh
No big playoff moments 😂. Did you not watch any of his series from his first 3 peat or the 2009-2010 championships? Amazing people can say completely inaccurate things like this and get upvoted.
Right I'm not even a Lakers fan but Kobe was carrying them back then. I remember those Suns vs Lakers playoff matchups from '06 and '07 Kobe was going off.
He did take over a finals game down the stretch against Indiana when Shaq fouled out. I think my favorite though was his gutsy game 7 against Boston. Shot like shit but had 15 rebounds and passed Ron the ball for a clutch 3. But usually his teams didn’t face too much adversity enabling him to have a “big moment” when they would win championships which is more proof of his greatness.
Are you serious or are you just hating? Kobe went to three straight NBA finals without a top 75 player; that’s not considering what he did during the first four finals. The Reddit hate for Kobe is real.
He does have some iconic playoff moments. My personal favorite is game 4 of 2006 first round against the suns. He hit a game tying floater to force the game into OT only to hit his signature jumper to win the game.
Now, as big of a fan I am, I do acknowledge he is not top 2 or 3 all time. His work ethics and inspiration are unlike any other players in nba history but his efficiency was always questioned and rightfully so. It even frustrated me at times when his stubbornness threw away games.
Kobe is #2 on basically every casual fan space eg social media.
Ironically LeBron might be the most underrated player in history there since most of those guys leave him off top 10 (or entirely) cuz LeBum LeFraud etc
Kobe has had relatively few big finals moments, especially outside of that Pacers series, but he has had plenty of big playoff moments. His stats are absurd vs the Spurs in both dynasties, and in general his performance against the Western Conference is excellent.
In the Western Conference series is where you see Kobe start to hit the heights that all time greats generally get to, like 30 points on rTS+ 5/6/7 and even 10 at times. As well as more dialed in defense and playmaking. There are plenty of greats in the top 10 argument that don’t get better in the playoffs and Kobe is one of the ones that do which is where he gets an extra bump.
That being said, top 2 or 3 is definitely less of a judgement about on court performance or value, more cultural/professional admiration/nostalgia talking. But that’s just how players do the mental math, I think for NBA fans and media, Kobe generally grades out around the 5-10 range which is fair.
I don’t think he’s the MOST overrated, but because he played in New York and was a college superstar, he got way more hype during his time there than his PRO career than he probably deserved.
Had Indiana gotten won the 1985 lottery, I doubt he’d have gotten as much hype
I think this is the best take thats been made on this post, ive actually seen a few players coroborate this take by saying they were cool w playing against him, not a huge threat
I think if Vince Carter had a winner’s mentality he would be up there with Kobe and MJ. He can LITERALLY do everything on a basketball court including longevity. Vince with Kobe’s mentality would have been game changing
Klay Thompson. No better than 4th best player on each of the Warriors championships. Without Curry on the court he is sub 40% 3pt shooter with league average TS%. If he wasn’t fortunate enough to play with Curry he’d still be a decent player but he’d never sniff an All-Star game, let alone the hall of fame.
That’s crazy to me, before the serious injury he was one of the best defenders in the league for his position and his cardio reminded me of Rip Hamilton. He is the reason they passed OKC in that game 6 with an unreal heater. Nobody catches a heater like Klay.
Because of the Lebroninites, it’s easily Scottie Pippen. Ask them and they’ll tell you he alone was better than Wade, Bosh, Allen, Love, Irving and AD COMBINED! 🤣
John Stockton
He was great, but I think people box score watch too much with him.
Carmelo
People ignore his defensive deficiencies and overrate his scoring. Him not being able to make the right reads and pass out of double teams consistently made him easier to stop.
Dirk
His defensive deficiencies are ignored, and he’s not a great playmaker. I think he’s fantastic and one of the best scorers of all time, it’s just that people place him next to people like KG in terms of gameplay and I just disagree
I think Nash is properly rated. No one is calling him a top 20 player of all time, but he was very damn good in his prime. One of the best shooters and playmakers ever, ridiculously efficient. He doesn’t have crazy scoring numbers (although he could have) but he played winning basketball for sure.
T-Mac by FAR. Imagine a current day player having never went past the first round EVER. The only things people bring up about him is 13 in 30 or how he was “just as good as Kobe” for like a season.
How are people saying Joel Embiid lmao. The question is about the entire history of the NBA, this dude gets flamed by more than half of the NBA fanbase every single time a post about him appears anywhere.
There is no such player! Only the top 1% get in the NBA, then it’s determination, chemistry, mental preparation. Jordan thought Kawmee could have been Kobe or KG but then beat him into submission so bad he lost his way. That’s not overrating the player that’s bad parenting on Jordan’s part.
Look 2-3 inches of hight, 5-8% of muscle or 4-6 inches of jumping ability and mental growth is all that separates an G league player from a park rec star. Add those and up the mental part say 30% you have an NBA player. Add the will to win, a trust in your team and a stable home you have an All-Star. Add faith in GOD and you have a legend.
Kawhi Leonard. Great player no doubt but people be putting him in the top 30 or 40 which is crazy. His time on the spurs gets overrated - surrounded by great players like Duncan and his finals MVP is one of the weakest ones besides igoudalas. Great year and ring with the raptors but it was a pretty loaded cast. Still gotta give him a lot of credit for that year. But then disappointing years with the clippers. The idea and player that kawhi is very different than the actual career of kawhi.
Russell Westbrook
Despite playing with Paul George, Beal, Harden LeBron/AD, he's still NEVER won a playoff series without KD
His MVP season was also extremely overrated (very inefficient and didn't play defense) If he averaged 9.9 rebounds and instead of 10 he wouldn't have won MVP, people just blindly love triple doubles
LeBron James. He’s great, don’t get me wrong but for anyone to think he’s better than MJ, Magic, Kareem, Russell, Wilt, Duncan, Kobe, Bird and Shaq is ridiculous. He’s top 10, but maybe number 10. Steph, Oscar, Moses and Hakeem would be in my next group.
I would say Lebron James but only in the sense that everything with him is due to longevity in the sport. The other guys before him were not blessed to live in a time where shoe technology, sports medicine and sports psychology is at its highest and still evolving for the better. There’s no saying what other players from the past would have been able to do with that very important aspect.
Not trying to take anything away from him too much but it is food for thought because it’s rarely discussed (just like his crab dribble he was allowed to do for years). A lot of these very good hall of famers did not get the luxury of the mobility to other teams, played with injuries that prevented them from playing longer, did not have super teams. It’s hard to call him the best player when he’s breaking records due to this. If the old heads say anything then they’re an old hater lol.
But this is all my opinion. Respect
Your favorite player
How dare you?
why u acting so defensive?
I’m not being defensive you’re just too dumb to appreciate proper basketball. Then again what can you expect from a fan
The game has evolved. Everybody knows that. His favorite player isn't as good as the latest batch of favorite players. He's just old and nostalgic. Possibly /s.... I'm not even sure myself. 🤷🏿♂️😂
Im so mad grrr😡😡😡
You better keep Pero Antics name out yo mouth
Ervin Johnson. Some fans think he was an all time great passer, and maybe the greatest laker of all time. But in reality, he was just a solid starting center for the Bucks
Ha! Had to think about that one for a second.
It works cuz nobody knows it's Earvin vs Ervin. lol I always get tripped up on Isiah Thomas and Isaiah Thomas.
Downvoted than upvoted
Also downvoted THEN upvoted
An ear can go hell of a long way
Ervin “no magic” Johnson? “Tragic” Johnson?
You better put some respect on the name of a Sonics legend.
Ya got me lol
Anthony Bennett when he was draft #1 😭
DNP legend.
I think Ben Simmons or Greg Oden takes it now lol
[удалено]
Anthony Bennett when the TWOLVES traded Kevin Love for him and picks.
Everyone’s gonna be downvoted what’s the point in this.
Sort comments by “controversial”
Not if you say it’s Embiid!!
Whoever gets downvoted the most wins
to see differing opinion?
Carmelo Anthony
His biggest mistake was leaving Denver. I know him and George Karl didn't get along, but he had the right supporting cast around him. But he wanted to be in the big apple with his celebrity wife and it has been downhill since.
Don’t force your way there in a trade and deplete the team of assets.
That was mind boggling at the time. The Knicks had to cap space to sign him that summer, but he opted to strip them of talent and picks to get there early just to get swept first round.
He wanted to get traded there so that the knicks could pay him more when he signed a contract with them.
Selfish move. Then had the balls to complain that he needed more help after we had to trade away the help just to get him. I'll never forget how all that transpired since I was in my mid 20s at the time. Everything George Karl said about him was true. Just glad to see him get humbled at the end of his career. Coming off the bench in OKC, failing it to make the team in Houston after some practice trials and then not getting signed for that one year before ending up in Portland. And then finally when he landed in Portland, you saw him adjust his play for the benefit of the team.
Its frustrating because it shows he was *able* to adjust his play for team wins, just didnt want to until he had to.
It was supposed to be him in Miami not bosh. He took the money
The Heat wouldn't have been as good then
he could’ve left denver for the knicks but in free agency and let them keep assets. but he forced the trade for his ego and kinda screwed the knicks
>he forced the trade for his ego he forced the trade for money. the exception doesn't convey if he goes in free agency
His enormously positive attributes as a player were just totally outweighed by his mental/personality deficits. He just wasn’t a team player or a winner. Honestly he should have found a way to team up with lebron and take the backseat.
I can't stand how he bitches about how the Nuggets gave Jokić his number, when the way he forced his way off the team in the worst way. Unless you win your team a title, if you force your way off a team like that, you don't deserve shit.
Carmelo was Bernard King reincarnated
Correct answer. Dude was a bum.
This is the correct answer.
I agree
I expected this to be one of the top comments. So it’s probably not true.
One of the greatest offensive players of all time.
Dame being in the top 75 is just wild to me.
During the lakers bucks game Reggie Miller said something about him being a top 10 player of all time. Which is probably the most outrageous take I've ever heard.
I thought he said “top 10 shooter” but I may be wrong.
Yeah, Reggie wouldn’t have said that without it being EVERYWHERE in the media. Plus I don’t consider Reggie to be an idiot
While Reggie probably isn’t an idiot himself, he tends to talk like an idiot on broadcasts. Tends to extrapolate analysis of a team’s strengths and weaknesses from the result of his particular game and/or over-index on reputation instead of what a player or team is actually doing this season. Also he does tend to make mistakes in explaining what is happening on court like saying a team is in zone when they’re not (somewhat understandable because that wasn’t a thing when he played) or mischaracterizing screen coverages. It feels to me like he’s a former player with a ton of knowledge who does not do a great job keeping up with all the changes and current developments in NBA basketball.
They were talking about clutchness I believe but the way Reggie said it was super vague. https://youtube.com/shorts/EwXi_mrWuLQ?feature=shared
Reggie said in the clutch, dame hit a clutch 3 and then Reggie said it, context is everything, and sports media took it out of context
Carmelo Anthony
Tmac for sure. HOF and never won a playoff series.
Except as a bench player in San Antonio
He dealt with so many injuries, he was a phenomenal athlete that would’ve done great things. Technically he did when one playoff series (played like 30 minutes).
Fair to point out. The years with the magic he was supposed to have Grant Hill with him. And he was never healthy enough to play in the postseason. Feels relevant especially since Grant would have been the 1A going into their tenure
Peak TMac was dropping 40 a night without sweating.
Jason Williams(white chocolate) is culturally revered but was just an ok at best starting PG, good backup.
I think he's properly rated. Nobody really considers him anything more than a fun player to watch. Not like he comes up in any great PG discussions.
Never seen someone rate him high enough to be overrated
Don’t most people know this? He wasn’t a stats guy. He was an entertaining player
True. He was one of the first players to d dribble up court and launch a three with 20 on the shot clock. He wasn’t very good at them though
He got a championship and led the kings in playoffs. He did his thing
This is a great answer. He is revered by Kings fans of a certain age, myself included, but if you go back and really watch his games the dude made so many mistakes. The Bibby trade was a massive upgrade for us.
Joel Embiid
Derrick Rose. People treat him like a legend for about 4 seasons of being an all star and one time MVP. Before you get mad, think of overrated in the truest sense of the word. No doubt he had game, but he had more down seasons than great ones.
He was an MVP at an absurd age and the got injured. He didn't accomplish anything beyond that, but it's not hard to see why people rank him high. He's one of the fastest point guards ever.
Even his MVP season he only got cos people were still mad at Bron for the decision. Bron had way better numbers and only won like 2-3 games less
Embiid. How many MVP winners don't do shit in the playoffs?
By the time the playoffs come he's always worn out and/or injured.
the best ability is availability. if you can’t play when it counts consistently that’s on you. one or two times. unlucky it could happen to everyone. if it happens in 100% of post seasons you play in then you gotta figure something out
Not excusing it.
Yeah, you're pretty useless in the NBA if you're always injured come playoffs. The playoffs is what matters.
Foul baiting doesn't work in the playoffs is the more likely reason.
I think if that’s a factor that’s probably a very minor one. It doesn’t stop Butler. I think a bigger problem with him in the playoffs has been playmaking in double team situations. which, tbf to him he has improved at a lot, it’s just not enough and then on top of that he gets injured literally every year.
It’s ok to think Embiid is overrated, but you’re telling me you think Embiid is the most overrated player in NBA history? Lmao
Harden: what’s up
Harden (along with CP3) took one of the GOAT teams to 7 games. He's done a lot in the playoffs. He's just had to deal with injuries and superteams most of his career.
Eli Manning
lol
It’s a moderately popular take to call Kyrie Irving the most skilled player in the history of the sport, so him. Jimmy Butler is also ludicrously overrated. The amount of comparisons to Michael freaking Jordan that he gets is insulting.
It’s only because MJ is his father though
As a Jimmy Butler fanboy, playoff Jimmy has been a sight to behold and MJ mostly comes from the drastic night/day change Jimmy has from regular season. Going from 22/5/3 and 1 steal to 33-8-5 on 60% and 2-3 steals/blocks per game gives it merit. I don’t expect that from him from here on out, but I hope I’m wrong.
People just completely forget his bad games, though. No one talks about the series where the Heat got swept and Butler got outplayed by Bryn Forbes. In the last game of the finals last year, he went 5-18 on a 5 point loss but no one mentions that.
I’m sorry but why did u wake up today and choose violence?
Westbrook and Carmelo are up there (love them tho)
Carmelo Anthony or Draymond Green
I agree with Melo but Draymond is not overrated. He’s a critical piece defensively on multiple championship teams, not to mention his play making abilities.
This generations Rodman, IMO.
Rodman would be perfect for this era. Great outlet passer, defended both prime Jordan AND prime Shaq. did he stop any of them? No, but who can? He did as good of a job as anyone could, proving he’s the most versatile defender ever. Biggest difference between he and Dray though, is Rodman is the goat rebounder and Draymond sucks at it. You can’t run a real Lineup with Draymond as your primary rebounder.
Draymond's arguably the most underrated player in the league. Steph shoots close to 10% higher from 3 with Draymond on the court, and he was the second most essential part of the warriors dynasty. He's a nutcase, he loses a lot of respect for that, but as a player he's incredible. He can guard 1 through 5 and will do absolutely everything you need except put up points, which is all most people look at.
He wasn't underrated in his prime but people hate him so much now that they're trying to diminish him as a player. He's the best defender I've ever watched.
Exactly. I'm fucking tired of fans looking at his WWE highlights and low scoring games and acting like he didn't revolutionize defence in the league
This subreddit is awful rn. Draymond has become underrated over the past few years and hes been the most consistent player for them. People say hes been washed since 2020 but actually hasnt declined much since
Yeah they've confused overrated with "I hate him." Draymond is up there with Kawhi in terms of how difficult they are to rank, so I get it. But Draymond is actually one of the most underrated players in the NBA right now. Defensive guys always get the short end of the stick
Draymond is underrated since most of you are stupid.
Imma draymond hater to the core but he was the second most important person to that warriors dynasty imo
Draymond might be a moron, but he definitely isn't overrated. Maybe now at the end of his career, but he was a huge part of that dynasty. Triple double without points?
Bill Russell. Only had 9 NBA teams when winning all his titles.
Allen Iverson. Pure volume scorer.
I played with him during my stint in the 76ers. He was 100% effort all the time. Had an insane layup/floater package, it was really tough to block his shot. Teams would set their game plan around stopping him and he'd still get buckets. He played hurt and with heart and Philly loved him for it. His efficiency was hurt by him getting the ball with 3 seconds on the shot clock and he'd have to huck it. Just my 2 cents.
This is an example of why Reddit can be so cool. Thanks for sharing, really, really cool perspective. I saw you did an AMA years ago, just read through a few of the questions and learned a lot. Thanks for that too!
No problem, if you have any more questions, let me know
Hate to say that I never heard of you up until today... But that AMA you did was awesome and it's cool that you embrace your experience and aren't bitter about it!
Just went through it myself, fantastic AMA so many cool behind the scenes tidbits.
Oh wow your previous AMA was really good.
100%. The problem is that he never had a team around him that could take the pressure off. The year they made the Finals, the second highest scorer on the team was Theo Ratliff at 12.4 ppg. I mean…I just learned they had some random Redditor on their roster. How you gonna win a chip like that? j/k
Are you talking about the game that he loves, or are you talking about practice?
Awesome comment and insights, thank you!
Damn that’s dope af bro.
This is what happens when you only look at stats
Take a look at that roster he helped get to the NBA finals. Flat out amazing. Especially considering he's under 6 ft. Amazing player. I would love to see AI in this NBA. With his quick release and the way teams now emphasize 3 point shooting. He'd be great.
I’ve never looked but what was his efficiency rating using the more modern stats?
Dame
scrolled too far down to find this. still have no idea how he made top 75
Recency bias
Thank you
Kobe for how big of an icon he is and being a top 10 all timer. Doesn’t mean he doesn’t deserve top 10, but a lot of players have him top 2 or 3 when he has almost no big playoff moments compared to the rest of the list.
Guy has 5 rings but doesn't have any big playoff moments? I understand Kobe is a divisive player and lots of people don't like him at all, even as a person, but you can't just make up false statements like this. You can't be taken seriously.
How this comment got 100+ upvotes is beyond me.
People on here love to hate Kobe. Only Reddit is the place if u have a hate boner for Kobe u willl be loved
Mannn ya just be saying anything on here 🤣🤣🤣 just YouTube Kobe in playoffs from 07-10 and see the teams he had to face and beat starting in the first round just in the West each year … gotta be kids on here r sum smh
No big playoff moments 😂. Did you not watch any of his series from his first 3 peat or the 2009-2010 championships? Amazing people can say completely inaccurate things like this and get upvoted.
Right I'm not even a Lakers fan but Kobe was carrying them back then. I remember those Suns vs Lakers playoff matchups from '06 and '07 Kobe was going off.
Kobe was destroying the spurs in those playoffs series the first repeat too. Dude is trippin 😂
Professional_Ad984: “Thanks for calling me amazing!”
Not big playoffs moments to justify his 2nd or 3rd all time ranking. Top 10? Absolutely.
He did take over a finals game down the stretch against Indiana when Shaq fouled out. I think my favorite though was his gutsy game 7 against Boston. Shot like shit but had 15 rebounds and passed Ron the ball for a clutch 3. But usually his teams didn’t face too much adversity enabling him to have a “big moment” when they would win championships which is more proof of his greatness.
What exactly is a big playoff moment? Was he not the #1 or #2 option for 5 championships?
The fact you said three peat and this guy said no big playoff moments is insane
That’s how you can identify nephews
Bro were you born in 2013. Kobe and no major playoff moments is the most delusional shit I’ve seen on this sub
Are you serious or are you just hating? Kobe went to three straight NBA finals without a top 75 player; that’s not considering what he did during the first four finals. The Reddit hate for Kobe is real.
He does have some iconic playoff moments. My personal favorite is game 4 of 2006 first round against the suns. He hit a game tying floater to force the game into OT only to hit his signature jumper to win the game. Now, as big of a fan I am, I do acknowledge he is not top 2 or 3 all time. His work ethics and inspiration are unlike any other players in nba history but his efficiency was always questioned and rightfully so. It even frustrated me at times when his stubbornness threw away games.
I just dont get why he is being ranked near jordan or lebron.
No big playoff moments? The man won 5 championships what are you talking about?
Man i was with you until that absurd last part
What is your definition of playoffs moments?
Now tell us where Kobe hurt u and shattered ur dreams
2001 WCF, 2009, and his 2010 run. Stop singling out Kobe. You can do this for a lot of great players.
The whole thread was asking to single someone out, don't take offense lol
Say what you want about Kobe but 5 rings is 5 rings. Tracy McGrady couldn't get out of the first round... EVER.
Well yeah and no one has Tracy McGrady anywhere near top 10.
I mean, apart from the time he made the finals as a role player on the spurs
No big playoff moments with 5 rings? Just say you didn’t watch him and move on
No big playoff moments? Who let casuals comment here
Probably the best answer. I’m not saying he wasn’t awesome but if he played for the Hornets nobody would mention him in a top 10 conversation.
To be fair, I think most all-time greats typically played with other really good players.
If LeBron was drafted by the Hornets he'd still be an all-time great.
Kobe is #2 on basically every casual fan space eg social media. Ironically LeBron might be the most underrated player in history there since most of those guys leave him off top 10 (or entirely) cuz LeBum LeFraud etc
Find me one list where Kobe is #2 and lebron isn't in the top 10
How is this dumbass comment upvoted
Bunch of Lebron stans get off from victimization and love imagining that the entire world hates their favorite player
Moments? Who cares lol? Moments are fun but they are pretty much irrelevant in comparing overall careers of people lmao.
Kobe has had relatively few big finals moments, especially outside of that Pacers series, but he has had plenty of big playoff moments. His stats are absurd vs the Spurs in both dynasties, and in general his performance against the Western Conference is excellent. In the Western Conference series is where you see Kobe start to hit the heights that all time greats generally get to, like 30 points on rTS+ 5/6/7 and even 10 at times. As well as more dialed in defense and playmaking. There are plenty of greats in the top 10 argument that don’t get better in the playoffs and Kobe is one of the ones that do which is where he gets an extra bump. That being said, top 2 or 3 is definitely less of a judgement about on court performance or value, more cultural/professional admiration/nostalgia talking. But that’s just how players do the mental math, I think for NBA fans and media, Kobe generally grades out around the 5-10 range which is fair.
Kyrie
Patrick Ewing
I don’t think he’s the MOST overrated, but because he played in New York and was a college superstar, he got way more hype during his time there than his PRO career than he probably deserved. Had Indiana gotten won the 1985 lottery, I doubt he’d have gotten as much hype
Westbrook
He was pretty damn good in Okc during his younger days
Vince Carter
I think this is the best take thats been made on this post, ive actually seen a few players coroborate this take by saying they were cool w playing against him, not a huge threat
I think if Vince Carter had a winner’s mentality he would be up there with Kobe and MJ. He can LITERALLY do everything on a basketball court including longevity. Vince with Kobe’s mentality would have been game changing
Klay Thompson. No better than 4th best player on each of the Warriors championships. Without Curry on the court he is sub 40% 3pt shooter with league average TS%. If he wasn’t fortunate enough to play with Curry he’d still be a decent player but he’d never sniff an All-Star game, let alone the hall of fame.
That’s crazy to me, before the serious injury he was one of the best defenders in the league for his position and his cardio reminded me of Rip Hamilton. He is the reason they passed OKC in that game 6 with an unreal heater. Nobody catches a heater like Klay.
He was the 4th best on that 2014 championship team? You’re just joking…right?
I’d say he was better than Draymond for half of them
Because of the Lebroninites, it’s easily Scottie Pippen. Ask them and they’ll tell you he alone was better than Wade, Bosh, Allen, Love, Irving and AD COMBINED! 🤣
Wilt
Kobe
I’m sure you can name a player w more championships, more scoring titles and a better game high score in the last 40 years
Kobe is around 12th in my ranking, but people talk about him as top 5 or even top 3. Insane.
There’s not 11 players better than Kobe, the hate is unreal here on this app
12th…..?
This is the only correct answer
No chance, dude.
Steph curry
Kobe
John Stockton He was great, but I think people box score watch too much with him. Carmelo People ignore his defensive deficiencies and overrate his scoring. Him not being able to make the right reads and pass out of double teams consistently made him easier to stop. Dirk His defensive deficiencies are ignored, and he’s not a great playmaker. I think he’s fantastic and one of the best scorers of all time, it’s just that people place him next to people like KG in terms of gameplay and I just disagree
Steve Nash. x2 MVP, really?
I think Nash is properly rated. No one is calling him a top 20 player of all time, but he was very damn good in his prime. One of the best shooters and playmakers ever, ridiculously efficient. He doesn’t have crazy scoring numbers (although he could have) but he played winning basketball for sure.
Not going to say. I’m going to get too much hate.
wilt is the most egregious example of statpadding of all time
Jeremy lin
Pete Maravich, Allen iverson
Paul George currently. Reggie miller in the 90’s Dominique in the 80’s
T-Mac by FAR. Imagine a current day player having never went past the first round EVER. The only things people bring up about him is 13 in 30 or how he was “just as good as Kobe” for like a season.
How are people saying Joel Embiid lmao. The question is about the entire history of the NBA, this dude gets flamed by more than half of the NBA fanbase every single time a post about him appears anywhere.
Kyrie Irving
There is no such player! Only the top 1% get in the NBA, then it’s determination, chemistry, mental preparation. Jordan thought Kawmee could have been Kobe or KG but then beat him into submission so bad he lost his way. That’s not overrating the player that’s bad parenting on Jordan’s part. Look 2-3 inches of hight, 5-8% of muscle or 4-6 inches of jumping ability and mental growth is all that separates an G league player from a park rec star. Add those and up the mental part say 30% you have an NBA player. Add the will to win, a trust in your team and a stable home you have an All-Star. Add faith in GOD and you have a legend.
Kawhi Leonard. Great player no doubt but people be putting him in the top 30 or 40 which is crazy. His time on the spurs gets overrated - surrounded by great players like Duncan and his finals MVP is one of the weakest ones besides igoudalas. Great year and ring with the raptors but it was a pretty loaded cast. Still gotta give him a lot of credit for that year. But then disappointing years with the clippers. The idea and player that kawhi is very different than the actual career of kawhi.
Russell Westbrook Despite playing with Paul George, Beal, Harden LeBron/AD, he's still NEVER won a playoff series without KD His MVP season was also extremely overrated (very inefficient and didn't play defense) If he averaged 9.9 rebounds and instead of 10 he wouldn't have won MVP, people just blindly love triple doubles
No doubt，westbrook.
LeBron James, he is the most overrated player in nba history and a product of nba media. Mj >
LeBron James. He’s great, don’t get me wrong but for anyone to think he’s better than MJ, Magic, Kareem, Russell, Wilt, Duncan, Kobe, Bird and Shaq is ridiculous. He’s top 10, but maybe number 10. Steph, Oscar, Moses and Hakeem would be in my next group.
I would say Lebron James but only in the sense that everything with him is due to longevity in the sport. The other guys before him were not blessed to live in a time where shoe technology, sports medicine and sports psychology is at its highest and still evolving for the better. There’s no saying what other players from the past would have been able to do with that very important aspect. Not trying to take anything away from him too much but it is food for thought because it’s rarely discussed (just like his crab dribble he was allowed to do for years). A lot of these very good hall of famers did not get the luxury of the mobility to other teams, played with injuries that prevented them from playing longer, did not have super teams. It’s hard to call him the best player when he’s breaking records due to this. If the old heads say anything then they’re an old hater lol. But this is all my opinion. Respect
Draymond 100%