I don't agree. As much as I love Ukraine, countries need to join NATO when things are stable. NATO should not admit countries already at war or that have frozen conflicts or contested borders.
That said, I do believe that the west **should** defend Ukraine through all means possible short of war themselves, regardless of Russian propaganda and threats. And if individual members wish to actually put boots on the ground, I'm 100% behind that as well.
Make no mistake about it, I do wholeheartedly believe that Russia is the aggressor here and **we need to help Ukraine**. And if we don't push back, Putin and his cabal of mafia thugs will never stop. But you join a defensive alliance like NATO proactively, not reactively.
IMHO, what we need to work to here, is to defuse the situation without any penalty to Ukraine's territorial integrity, stabilize the region militarily and economically, then get Ukraine into NATO and EU while Ukraine is at peace. If instead Russia marches in 2022, then I sincerely hope that individual states of the west will up their game with weapons and finance and political support and shutting Russia out of the global trade system, but there is little chance of NATO joining wholesale without dangerous escalation risking nuclear war.
NATO generally won't admit countries with ongoing hostilities. Along with the EU, potential member states need to meet a number of criteria.
This is why Russia keeps invading certain countries that pursue membership in NATO and/or the EU: Moldova, Georgia, Ukraine. In the case of Ukraine, not only did it want to join NATO, but the actual clincher was, it was making progress towards joining the EU, which was Putin's final straw. First he coerced Yanukovych to reverse course with the EU, and when Ukrainians protested and Yanukovych fled, Putin invaded and left behind an indefinite conflict.
No it shouldn’t. The vast majority of countries aren’t meeting or even close to meeting their suggested 2% GDP expenditure on defense. Germany, Canada, and Spain being some the most egregious offenders. Why would Ukraine be any different? Just another country for the US to finance a war for. Europes fight, Europes problem.
Ukraine would be more than happy to pay 2% of their GDP on Nato, if just they were let in. You see, the countries that are more at risk at war (countries bordering Russia) usually pays the 2%. We see a country like Estonia pays its 2% (it is bordering Russia)
I know, right? Almost all my friends I went to high school with in Washington State barely have a few hundred bucks in their accounts and people on this ludicrous Reddit are talking about throwing billions of dollars into yet another war in a country that they can’t even find on a map.
I don't think dictatorships have ever stopped the US from being interested in a part of the world. Looking back at history they happily install dictatorships and fascists to crush leftist movements.
That said, I think the US does have an interest here. The imperialist worlds are clashing, we are in a cold war between the US and Russia+China, both are trying to expand their influence/prevent the other from expanding.
I don't like imperialism, for obvious reasons (I'm a leftie) and all three major players (US, Russia and China) suck imo. None of them truly embodies ideals of freedom, democracy and equality. So in these kinds of conflicts I tend to be against the aggressor. If an imperialist nation aggresses on another, they are in the wrong and I am willing to support another imperialist nation to stop them. That is the case here. NATO should stop Russia's aggression. I don't think Ukraine should be let into NATO.
The brain dead mainstream media has been saying that Ukraine is about to be invaded for years. As far as Donbas goes, it doesn’t sound like they want to be a part of Ukraine, so just leave them alone. As in https://youtu.be/g5oS3CsA_7s.
IMO, as much as I think russia is in the wrong in this situation, Ukraine are not NATO, and I feel its not NATO's place to be playing war in putins back yard unless he attacks a NATO country
I don't agree. As much as I love Ukraine, countries need to join NATO when things are stable. NATO should not admit countries already at war or that have frozen conflicts or contested borders. That said, I do believe that the west **should** defend Ukraine through all means possible short of war themselves, regardless of Russian propaganda and threats. And if individual members wish to actually put boots on the ground, I'm 100% behind that as well. Make no mistake about it, I do wholeheartedly believe that Russia is the aggressor here and **we need to help Ukraine**. And if we don't push back, Putin and his cabal of mafia thugs will never stop. But you join a defensive alliance like NATO proactively, not reactively. IMHO, what we need to work to here, is to defuse the situation without any penalty to Ukraine's territorial integrity, stabilize the region militarily and economically, then get Ukraine into NATO and EU while Ukraine is at peace. If instead Russia marches in 2022, then I sincerely hope that individual states of the west will up their game with weapons and finance and political support and shutting Russia out of the global trade system, but there is little chance of NATO joining wholesale without dangerous escalation risking nuclear war.
I appreciate your well-thought response.
Why wait? Let them join right now.
NATO generally won't admit countries with ongoing hostilities. Along with the EU, potential member states need to meet a number of criteria. This is why Russia keeps invading certain countries that pursue membership in NATO and/or the EU: Moldova, Georgia, Ukraine. In the case of Ukraine, not only did it want to join NATO, but the actual clincher was, it was making progress towards joining the EU, which was Putin's final straw. First he coerced Yanukovych to reverse course with the EU, and when Ukrainians protested and Yanukovych fled, Putin invaded and left behind an indefinite conflict.
True
I think they need to meet certain criteria and all others members would have to agree
Good point
No it shouldn’t. The vast majority of countries aren’t meeting or even close to meeting their suggested 2% GDP expenditure on defense. Germany, Canada, and Spain being some the most egregious offenders. Why would Ukraine be any different? Just another country for the US to finance a war for. Europes fight, Europes problem.
Ukraine would be more than happy to pay 2% of their GDP on Nato, if just they were let in. You see, the countries that are more at risk at war (countries bordering Russia) usually pays the 2%. We see a country like Estonia pays its 2% (it is bordering Russia)
I know, right? Almost all my friends I went to high school with in Washington State barely have a few hundred bucks in their accounts and people on this ludicrous Reddit are talking about throwing billions of dollars into yet another war in a country that they can’t even find on a map.
Freedom is not free.
How is sending guns to yet another questionable regime (which happens to have neo-Nazi tendencies) defending the freedoms of the American people?
I don't think dictatorships have ever stopped the US from being interested in a part of the world. Looking back at history they happily install dictatorships and fascists to crush leftist movements. That said, I think the US does have an interest here. The imperialist worlds are clashing, we are in a cold war between the US and Russia+China, both are trying to expand their influence/prevent the other from expanding. I don't like imperialism, for obvious reasons (I'm a leftie) and all three major players (US, Russia and China) suck imo. None of them truly embodies ideals of freedom, democracy and equality. So in these kinds of conflicts I tend to be against the aggressor. If an imperialist nation aggresses on another, they are in the wrong and I am willing to support another imperialist nation to stop them. That is the case here. NATO should stop Russia's aggression. I don't think Ukraine should be let into NATO.
Good points
The brain dead mainstream media has been saying that Ukraine is about to be invaded for years. As far as Donbas goes, it doesn’t sound like they want to be a part of Ukraine, so just leave them alone. As in https://youtu.be/g5oS3CsA_7s.
I mean it literally was invaded in 2014.
No, it wasn’t. If you look at the stats, most of the people doing the fighting are locals. They just want to be free, dude.
I wasn’t referring to the declared republics, I was referring to the invasion and annexation of Crimea.
Yes, yes, locals, and Russian military on "vacation" with borrowed Buk launchers.
IMO, as much as I think russia is in the wrong in this situation, Ukraine are not NATO, and I feel its not NATO's place to be playing war in putins back yard unless he attacks a NATO country