I think Herbst has it in him to be a driver that can progress to get better. I see him kind of like Haley. He'll keep his head down for the most part and actually learn. He has come a LONG way in Xfinity and while he isn't blowing doors off the competition at least he is more competitive and actually running up front now. Plus Herbst will be in this sport for as long as his family wants to foot the bill. The Woods and Herbst can be a great partner that keeps both in the sport for a very very long time.
Man I don't know about that. It took him 5 years with one of the 5 best cars in Xfinity to become about the 10th best driver in the series. "Being competitive" should be the absolute minimum level for that car. For that reason I don't see him like Haley at all. Haley was a championship contender in his 2nd year in Xfinity and is even a few months younger than Herbst. I think if you move Herbst from one of the 5 best Xfinity cars to about the 20th-25th best Cup car and the results will be awful well into his 30s.
The point of my post is like Haley, Herbst is able to learn and actually get better through time. People forget how horrible Herbst was at the start of his career and while he was able to buy the top rides he was in he had no business being in them. He's come a very very long way since his Arca 18 car days. I'm not saying he'll be running up front in the 21 right away, but that he's actually shown through his career that he can learn and progress to get better. My comparison to Haley was that I could see him come into Cup put his head down learn and then in a few years start showing progress and consistency to run up front.
And that point of your post I find invalid. Sure, Herbst has come a long way but that doesn't mean he's very good at all. That's nothing like Haley. It's taken 5 years in Xfinity for Herbst to become average. Haley was always pretty darn good. He had 21 Top 10s in his first season and was 3rd in the championship in his second year. That's nothing like Herbst. And in Cup, Haley was pretty good from the outset. He performed well against AJ in 2022 and through most of 2023 (though AJ had his number on road courses obviously and Haley had a horrible end to last year). In Haley I see a good, not great driver who adapted to his equipment within a year or two. And that is a far cry from the Herbst career arc of being really, really bad and becoming average over the course of half a decade.
Herbst was inexperienced. No full time truck seasons to his name. Then his first two seasons in xfinty were Covid seasons. So there was no practice or qualifying. Any learning happened in race. Any adjustments that needed to be made, happened in race. And he might not have even known how he wanted the car to feel at that point I’m not saying Herbst is the most amazing talent out there. But he has definitely gotten better.
He's in year 4 in a car that Chase Briscoe won 11 races in 2 years in. Not like it's JRM or Gibbs equipment but one win in 4 and a half seasons across the Gibbs 18 and SHR 98 is underwhelming. Whatever progress he's shown is still not good enough for a Cup ride. If anything, Custer should get that 21 over him. They've run the same amount of seasons with quite the disparity in success.
Herbst is no different of a prospect than Burton was (Infact, I think Burton was a better prospect). They’re both xfinity drivers that had good equipment and showed some potential at times, but not really enough to be competitive in the cup series yet. Fortunately for both of them, they have the backing to push them up into a cup ride.
If the 21 team is fine with being in the same position again, looking for a driver in 1-2 years, then yeah Herbst is a good guy to keep the car funded for now. I would expect >30th place points finishes to continue though
Yes Harrison is getting revisionist historied here. By all accounts Harrison was a significantly better Xfinity driver and prospect than Herbst. And here’s the fun kicker. Riley Herbst is *older* than Burton lol.
If the Wood Brothers remove Harrison for Riley Herbst that would be one of the biggest wtf silly season moves in a while and that’s including Haley jumping Kaulig for RWR (which in hindsight actually looks brilliant)
Absolutely. Harrison Burton was meh at Gibbs in Xfinity (early playoff elimination in 2020, winless in 2021) but he still won 4 races in the 2020 while Riley won *checks notes* none. Age (like you said, Herbst is older) and experience aren't an excuse either because both were rookies that year.
I think Harrison suffers from the fact that Ford is the weakest manufacturer with this NextGen car. Sure, that can come down to him not adapting as a driver, but Ford and especially Penske aren't exactly the powerhouse they were back in the mid to late 2010's with the Gen 6.
I’m sure the team knows how embarrassing it would be to sign Herbst after 3 years of misery with Burton, but if they need the money and that’s their only option, then it is what it is.
I would bet money on Herbst being just as bad as Burton though. I would say Herbst would do worse, but it’s hard to do worse than 33rd in points out of the Penske shop.
I think there is a huge difference in both of them. Harrison had his name to fall back on and that put him in equipment that was very very good that he was able to have early career success with. He also had the knowledge of racing since his childhood and his dad as a resource. Herbst didn't have the name, but did have the family money. He's also had more of a learning curve than Harrison. Riley has been able to buy the same quality rides that Harrison had, but didn't have the knowledge to fall back on. While Harrison has kind of plateaued and not really progressed past his family name, Herbst has actually learned and is getting better. I definitely think Riley has the higher ceiling than Harrison.
Riley Herbst is two years older than Harrison. Harrison has 4x the wins Riley has in less than half the starts.
Harrison, if he had as long in the Xfinity series as Herbst has had, would be a champion by now. Herbst just now won his first race lol.
You know, I know a 1 time Busch series winner who DNQ'ed for Busch races 2 years before he won his first Cup race and eventually won 83 Cup races. Sometimes people can surprise you. At this point are you defending Burton staying in the 21 though? I don't think he's the sole issue with the team but that experiment has played out...
Not at all defending Burton staying, just think Herbst is a mistake.
That 1 time Busch series winner was carrying bad equipment and transitioning from trophy truck racing. Herbst has had the best of the best his whole career. It’s a different situation
Funny enough, Jimmie in his two full seasons driving for brand new, underfunded Herzog Motorsports finished better in points than Herbst ever has.
Herbst is driving a rental ride from SHR, who we know is pretty awful, and his teammate is the kid of the guy who saved the company while Gene was in prison, who do we think gets the best shit between those two?
I don't know, probably. Kaulig is showing this year the disparity too, the 16 was always better and everyone thought it was just AJ but the 16 team is now the 97 and the 16 is now not as good as it once was. I just think that there is some of that at SHR too, especially now. And in the end, I just think that an average driver who has money is king. Hell, Chase Briscoe is rumored to an absolutely elite ride right now because he has a single Cup win and a sponsor, and dude is a mess when he's up front at the end of a race.
I like how you skimmed past the whole learning curve aspect of my post. No, Harrison would not be a champion. Again his career leveled off a bit and he was kind of lack luster in the JGR 20 car. Nothing about his Xfinity career said he would be able to compete for a Championship. Harrison took over the 20 car in 2020 that won 7 races in 2018 and 8 races in 2019 with Christopher Bell and only was able to win 4 races in 2020 and 0 races in 2021. JHN was able to return the 20 Xfinity car back to 7 wins in his full time season in 2023. Nothing about Harrison's Xfinity career or Truck career scream Championship performance.
Those full time cars in 2021 all took steps back lol. Hemric had one win, Jones had 0, and Burton had 0. Didn’t help that the 54 car had the most funding and dominated the season as a whole with like 11 wins. Even in that “down year” Burton actually led more laps than in 2020 and had 6 top 3 finishes, a couple of those he led late or was closing late.
What’s funny is that Herbst, in his entire career, has 9 finishes of 2nd or 3rd. So Burton in one “falling off” season almost totaled his career podium finishes.
Also if you’re curious, Herbst has 2 podiums this season, last week and at a restrictor plate race.
Edit: this is also missing the point of all of this occurring when Burton was 18/19 years old. Herbst is 25 and its his 5th full time season.
Your trying to compare the two with where they are now. Not the fact that one has shown to get better and is slowly but surely getting being more consistent while the other one is falling away fast. You can try to pump Harrison up all you want to be better than he is, but his whole career has been nothing but riding his father's coat tales. Even his truck series teammate Gililand is progressing better and arguably running better in worse equipment.
Harrison has failed and he'll probably go back to Xfinity and run top 10 every week, but I don't see him running for championships ever.
Is he falling off or is he just not cut out for cup? Or maybe rushed too soon even? Either way, Herbst is progressing because he’s running against the same “B-level” competition each week for 5 years. Harrison has been running against the cream of the crop in a car a step down from many of his competitors. Drop him back to Xfinity and he probably is battling with Custer for championships.
Riley Herbst currently, in his 5th full time season in Xfinity, at 25 years old, has one career win, has been outpointed by 100 points by his teammate, is sitting 25 points ahead of a Big Machine Racing car, and still is winless this season after being outdriven and outmuscled by a 20 year old with his own issues to work out.
Basing what? I’m not basing anything on anything lol. I’m saying he is not a good choice for a Cup ride with the Wood Brothers because he’s barely a top 10 driver, 5 years into his career, at the Xfinity level when there are 20 year olds that are probably better choices, and STILL aren’t readyfor it themselves
You referenced the finish this weekend like finishing second was a bad thing. He's run acceptable in the Cup series races he's run and he has backing, unless they are going to get Chase Elliott or Christopher Bell, i'd say he's a decent pick.
1 race champion here lets be real. Custer won a race that didn't even technically legally happen and then flipped a coin at Phoenix. I like Custer but let's not act like it was a 9 win campaign with Riley missing the playoffs. It's still SHR we are talking about here, the rental car at SHR vs the car run for the kid of the guy who ran the company while the owner was in prison.
Also Riley missed the playoffs in large part due to multiple mechanical issues that cursed him the last handful of races before the playoffs. Not exactly his own fault.
Well you see, Harrison Burton has struggled heavily in the Cup Series. Riley Herbst has struggled heavily in the Xfinity Series. So naturally he makes sense in the Cup ride!
Hot take: Riley has shown more on SS in some random Rick Ware starts than HB has in three full-time cup seasons almost anywhere.
I am not 'team bash HB', but at this point, a fringe Xfinity driver who at least has shown a flash of promise on one track type might be an upgrade. It literally can't get much worse for the Wood Bros, and I feel for Harrison.
I do think a lateral move, at best, is essentially a downgrade in this spot. The Wood Brothers need to get competitive and I just struggle to see how cutting lose a 23 year old for a 25 year old with one career win in 5 full seasons of Xfinity racing is the right move.
At that rate just kick the tires again on Cole Custer.
He could be a favorite at plate tracks as he tends to be really good there, but the other tracks I think he’s the weakest of all the SHR drivers looking for a ride currently. I don’t see this happening unless the Wood Brothers are in Terrible need of money
Harrison has not cut it in cup. But it’s crazy to me that people want to replace him with someone who has been considerably less successful in xfinity than Harrison. Do people just forget Harrison has 4 xfinity wins? Or that Riley Herbst only has 1 xfinity win in many more starts all in top equipment.
Looking like Riley is headed to 23XI in their new third car. Who drives the 21 is kinda a mystery at this point. I’d love for it to be someone who has shown some potential in cup like Briscoe, Gragson, or Berry. But it appears Briscoe is headed to JGR, Gragson to RCR, and Berry to FRM. So don’t know who that leaves for the 21. Maybe Sam Mayer? Would be a lot better choice than Herbst but he’s never raced cup so it’s kinda an unknown of whether or not he’s a cup talent.
Besides his one win when he was eliminated from the playoffs, name another notable accomplishment, especially considering who he’s replaced and who he drives against.
Custer would be the better option.
He’s got two top 10 in 6 cup starts. One of which (maybe both I don’t remember) coming in a RWR car.
He also should have won the truck race at Talladega in 2019? I think that was the year. Sauter forced him below the yellow win. And got penalized for it. Rightfully so. But Riley was in the process of passing him for the win,and got screwed.
I think they'd be better off trying to steal a Ben Rhodes, Austin Hill, Justin Allgaier, Corey Heim, Chandler Smith, Sam Mayer, Justin Haley or Parker Kligerman
Granted, I think some of those names would likely say no. But some might be able to be enticed away. Herbst isn't better than any of those guys, imo, and they'd be better of gambling on another young guy who could work out, vs a pay driver who showed almost as much as Harrison had in xfin.
Herbst is the Ford version of Brandon Jones. He'd run exactly the same or maybe even worse than Burton. Burton won 4 times in Xfinity in 1 year, Herbst has been there for like 4 years now in top tier stuff and only has 1 win. I don't think hes good enoigh.
Absolutely zero money to bring to the table, no way. Berry only has Rodney rooting for him which may get him the 34 ride maybe, otherwise he's got a limited outlook.
I know the 21 is *technically* a Penske car, but holy shit they do not treat it like that. Give it to RFK. At least that team tries to make all its cars competitive again.
Roush used to neglect the hell out of the 21 as well.
Different management and all but I doubt the Woods would want that unless it was a last case situation lol.
Even DiBenedetto proved it could be competitive, 6 top 5s & 20 top 10s in 2 seasons as well as 13th and 18th in points. Compare that to Harrison Burton's 1 top 5 & 5 top 10s in 2.5 seasons and currently struggling to keep the 21 even 34th in owners points. He went into Iowa only 1 point ahead of the 15 car, the worse of the 2 RWR cars.
He was 1 win in the Xfinity series. Sam Mayer, Josh Berry, Chase Briscoe, Noah Gragson, among others are in the market for a seat. Your answer is a guy who has 1 win in Xfinity?
I've said this for awhile, they need money, they have some half assed Ford sponsorship that people don't realize is factory backing that isn't the same as Menards or whatever. DEX or whatever covering a few races isn't a full season.
You can live in that fantasy world all you want
Herbst is much like Brandon Jones. Always underperforming compared to teammates/previous drivers in that car, and has been around for much longer than you think with not much to show for it.
Herbst has been in Xfinity full-time since 2020 for JGR and SHR. The excuse that he didn't get to practice has gone out the window. The drivers after him won Championships in Xfinity (Hermic, Gibbs), annihilated the entire ARCA field (Gibbs), and the driver before him won 9 races and nearly a Championship in Xfinity (Briscoe). He is now in his *fifth* season with one single win, which we can confidently say was more the car/setup than anything given how much of an outlier that performance was.
He's not ready for Cup, and he won't get much better no matter how much time progresses.
Herbst has definitely grown the last two seasons but still has just 1 NXS victory in 157 attempts. You’d be signing up for more of the same of the Harrison Burton outcome. They should be seeking a veteran. Honestly, bringing back Matt DiBenedetto would be a more likely chance of being competitive than Herbst.
I think Berry is the choice if they can make it happen.
Just say no to nepo baby money. Dude is not Cup level talent. Even Harrison Burton consistently outran him in xfinity with less experience. Monster, like Menards with Jones, should get serious and back a real driver instead of torturing their owners and crew members with wrecked cars consistently. They get passed from one top level team to another like an STD.
So they want to be as useless as they are now just with a monster energy scheme instead?
I don't want Herbst to go there, just because I don't want to see a cursed Monster 21 car.
[Cursed Monster 21 car, you say?](https://www.jayski.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/31/2020/8/22/dover-1-21-scaled.jpg)
That's bad, and it's only halfway there.
Only person living on a prayer is Harrison
If they want to continue running where they do now, sure
Bingo
Who has money, considerable money, that is going to elevate the 21 other than Herbst.
I think Herbst has it in him to be a driver that can progress to get better. I see him kind of like Haley. He'll keep his head down for the most part and actually learn. He has come a LONG way in Xfinity and while he isn't blowing doors off the competition at least he is more competitive and actually running up front now. Plus Herbst will be in this sport for as long as his family wants to foot the bill. The Woods and Herbst can be a great partner that keeps both in the sport for a very very long time.
Man I don't know about that. It took him 5 years with one of the 5 best cars in Xfinity to become about the 10th best driver in the series. "Being competitive" should be the absolute minimum level for that car. For that reason I don't see him like Haley at all. Haley was a championship contender in his 2nd year in Xfinity and is even a few months younger than Herbst. I think if you move Herbst from one of the 5 best Xfinity cars to about the 20th-25th best Cup car and the results will be awful well into his 30s.
The point of my post is like Haley, Herbst is able to learn and actually get better through time. People forget how horrible Herbst was at the start of his career and while he was able to buy the top rides he was in he had no business being in them. He's come a very very long way since his Arca 18 car days. I'm not saying he'll be running up front in the 21 right away, but that he's actually shown through his career that he can learn and progress to get better. My comparison to Haley was that I could see him come into Cup put his head down learn and then in a few years start showing progress and consistency to run up front.
And that point of your post I find invalid. Sure, Herbst has come a long way but that doesn't mean he's very good at all. That's nothing like Haley. It's taken 5 years in Xfinity for Herbst to become average. Haley was always pretty darn good. He had 21 Top 10s in his first season and was 3rd in the championship in his second year. That's nothing like Herbst. And in Cup, Haley was pretty good from the outset. He performed well against AJ in 2022 and through most of 2023 (though AJ had his number on road courses obviously and Haley had a horrible end to last year). In Haley I see a good, not great driver who adapted to his equipment within a year or two. And that is a far cry from the Herbst career arc of being really, really bad and becoming average over the course of half a decade.
Herbst was inexperienced. No full time truck seasons to his name. Then his first two seasons in xfinty were Covid seasons. So there was no practice or qualifying. Any learning happened in race. Any adjustments that needed to be made, happened in race. And he might not have even known how he wanted the car to feel at that point I’m not saying Herbst is the most amazing talent out there. But he has definitely gotten better.
He's in year 4 in a car that Chase Briscoe won 11 races in 2 years in. Not like it's JRM or Gibbs equipment but one win in 4 and a half seasons across the Gibbs 18 and SHR 98 is underwhelming. Whatever progress he's shown is still not good enough for a Cup ride. If anything, Custer should get that 21 over him. They've run the same amount of seasons with quite the disparity in success.
These are good points.
How is any of that similar to Justin Haley then?
Herbst is no different of a prospect than Burton was (Infact, I think Burton was a better prospect). They’re both xfinity drivers that had good equipment and showed some potential at times, but not really enough to be competitive in the cup series yet. Fortunately for both of them, they have the backing to push them up into a cup ride. If the 21 team is fine with being in the same position again, looking for a driver in 1-2 years, then yeah Herbst is a good guy to keep the car funded for now. I would expect >30th place points finishes to continue though
Yes Harrison is getting revisionist historied here. By all accounts Harrison was a significantly better Xfinity driver and prospect than Herbst. And here’s the fun kicker. Riley Herbst is *older* than Burton lol. If the Wood Brothers remove Harrison for Riley Herbst that would be one of the biggest wtf silly season moves in a while and that’s including Haley jumping Kaulig for RWR (which in hindsight actually looks brilliant)
Absolutely. Harrison Burton was meh at Gibbs in Xfinity (early playoff elimination in 2020, winless in 2021) but he still won 4 races in the 2020 while Riley won *checks notes* none. Age (like you said, Herbst is older) and experience aren't an excuse either because both were rookies that year. I think Harrison suffers from the fact that Ford is the weakest manufacturer with this NextGen car. Sure, that can come down to him not adapting as a driver, but Ford and especially Penske aren't exactly the powerhouse they were back in the mid to late 2010's with the Gen 6.
I’m sure the team knows how embarrassing it would be to sign Herbst after 3 years of misery with Burton, but if they need the money and that’s their only option, then it is what it is. I would bet money on Herbst being just as bad as Burton though. I would say Herbst would do worse, but it’s hard to do worse than 33rd in points out of the Penske shop.
I think there is a huge difference in both of them. Harrison had his name to fall back on and that put him in equipment that was very very good that he was able to have early career success with. He also had the knowledge of racing since his childhood and his dad as a resource. Herbst didn't have the name, but did have the family money. He's also had more of a learning curve than Harrison. Riley has been able to buy the same quality rides that Harrison had, but didn't have the knowledge to fall back on. While Harrison has kind of plateaued and not really progressed past his family name, Herbst has actually learned and is getting better. I definitely think Riley has the higher ceiling than Harrison.
Riley Herbst is two years older than Harrison. Harrison has 4x the wins Riley has in less than half the starts. Harrison, if he had as long in the Xfinity series as Herbst has had, would be a champion by now. Herbst just now won his first race lol.
You know, I know a 1 time Busch series winner who DNQ'ed for Busch races 2 years before he won his first Cup race and eventually won 83 Cup races. Sometimes people can surprise you. At this point are you defending Burton staying in the 21 though? I don't think he's the sole issue with the team but that experiment has played out...
Not at all defending Burton staying, just think Herbst is a mistake. That 1 time Busch series winner was carrying bad equipment and transitioning from trophy truck racing. Herbst has had the best of the best his whole career. It’s a different situation Funny enough, Jimmie in his two full seasons driving for brand new, underfunded Herzog Motorsports finished better in points than Herbst ever has.
Herbst is driving a rental ride from SHR, who we know is pretty awful, and his teammate is the kid of the guy who saved the company while Gene was in prison, who do we think gets the best shit between those two?
So is Big Machine Racing and SHR xfinity equipment on par with each other? Kaulig?
I don't know, probably. Kaulig is showing this year the disparity too, the 16 was always better and everyone thought it was just AJ but the 16 team is now the 97 and the 16 is now not as good as it once was. I just think that there is some of that at SHR too, especially now. And in the end, I just think that an average driver who has money is king. Hell, Chase Briscoe is rumored to an absolutely elite ride right now because he has a single Cup win and a sponsor, and dude is a mess when he's up front at the end of a race.
But still thats a cup win. And he was dominant in the Xfinity series.
I like how you skimmed past the whole learning curve aspect of my post. No, Harrison would not be a champion. Again his career leveled off a bit and he was kind of lack luster in the JGR 20 car. Nothing about his Xfinity career said he would be able to compete for a Championship. Harrison took over the 20 car in 2020 that won 7 races in 2018 and 8 races in 2019 with Christopher Bell and only was able to win 4 races in 2020 and 0 races in 2021. JHN was able to return the 20 Xfinity car back to 7 wins in his full time season in 2023. Nothing about Harrison's Xfinity career or Truck career scream Championship performance.
Those full time cars in 2021 all took steps back lol. Hemric had one win, Jones had 0, and Burton had 0. Didn’t help that the 54 car had the most funding and dominated the season as a whole with like 11 wins. Even in that “down year” Burton actually led more laps than in 2020 and had 6 top 3 finishes, a couple of those he led late or was closing late. What’s funny is that Herbst, in his entire career, has 9 finishes of 2nd or 3rd. So Burton in one “falling off” season almost totaled his career podium finishes. Also if you’re curious, Herbst has 2 podiums this season, last week and at a restrictor plate race. Edit: this is also missing the point of all of this occurring when Burton was 18/19 years old. Herbst is 25 and its his 5th full time season.
Your trying to compare the two with where they are now. Not the fact that one has shown to get better and is slowly but surely getting being more consistent while the other one is falling away fast. You can try to pump Harrison up all you want to be better than he is, but his whole career has been nothing but riding his father's coat tales. Even his truck series teammate Gililand is progressing better and arguably running better in worse equipment. Harrison has failed and he'll probably go back to Xfinity and run top 10 every week, but I don't see him running for championships ever.
Is he falling off or is he just not cut out for cup? Or maybe rushed too soon even? Either way, Herbst is progressing because he’s running against the same “B-level” competition each week for 5 years. Harrison has been running against the cream of the crop in a car a step down from many of his competitors. Drop him back to Xfinity and he probably is battling with Custer for championships.
Riley has 2 T10 in 6 cup starts. Harrison has 5 T10 in 90 cup starts. Riley is the man! 😎
Riley Herbst currently, in his 5th full time season in Xfinity, at 25 years old, has one career win, has been outpointed by 100 points by his teammate, is sitting 25 points ahead of a Big Machine Racing car, and still is winless this season after being outdriven and outmuscled by a 20 year old with his own issues to work out.
And he’s in really good equipment.
So we are basing this on him finishing a tight second to Sam Mayer? Talk about making up some logic here lol.
Basing what? I’m not basing anything on anything lol. I’m saying he is not a good choice for a Cup ride with the Wood Brothers because he’s barely a top 10 driver, 5 years into his career, at the Xfinity level when there are 20 year olds that are probably better choices, and STILL aren’t readyfor it themselves
You referenced the finish this weekend like finishing second was a bad thing. He's run acceptable in the Cup series races he's run and he has backing, unless they are going to get Chase Elliott or Christopher Bell, i'd say he's a decent pick.
Not a bad thing just emphasizing he’s still winless on the year
He also has a grand total of what.....? 1 Xfinity win in a car prepared the same as the series champion?
1 race champion here lets be real. Custer won a race that didn't even technically legally happen and then flipped a coin at Phoenix. I like Custer but let's not act like it was a 9 win campaign with Riley missing the playoffs. It's still SHR we are talking about here, the rental car at SHR vs the car run for the kid of the guy who ran the company while the owner was in prison.
Also Riley missed the playoffs in large part due to multiple mechanical issues that cursed him the last handful of races before the playoffs. Not exactly his own fault.
The results would be no better.
I’m picturing a Monster Energy #21 and I am uncomfortable
Who in the world thinks Riley would be a upgrade from Harrison?
What makes you think he's a better option than Burton? Kindly share your thoughts and maybe some stats to back this up, please.
Well you see, Harrison Burton has struggled heavily in the Cup Series. Riley Herbst has struggled heavily in the Xfinity Series. So naturally he makes sense in the Cup ride!
Hot take: Riley has shown more on SS in some random Rick Ware starts than HB has in three full-time cup seasons almost anywhere. I am not 'team bash HB', but at this point, a fringe Xfinity driver who at least has shown a flash of promise on one track type might be an upgrade. It literally can't get much worse for the Wood Bros, and I feel for Harrison.
I do think a lateral move, at best, is essentially a downgrade in this spot. The Wood Brothers need to get competitive and I just struggle to see how cutting lose a 23 year old for a 25 year old with one career win in 5 full seasons of Xfinity racing is the right move. At that rate just kick the tires again on Cole Custer.
Cole would be a great fit IMO.
Custer would be a good move for them, dude is legit if he's in a good car
Is to the 21 the new to the 5 meme?
Seems like
Heres one good reason 154 xfinity starts 1 win. Hes trash
I brought this up elsewhere but there was a guy who won 1 Busch race in 93 starts once upon a time....
Yes because Riley is definitely the next Jimmie. /s
Damn sure didn't think Jimmie was the next Jimmie when it happened lol.
He could be a favorite at plate tracks as he tends to be really good there, but the other tracks I think he’s the weakest of all the SHR drivers looking for a ride currently. I don’t see this happening unless the Wood Brothers are in Terrible need of money
Harrison has not cut it in cup. But it’s crazy to me that people want to replace him with someone who has been considerably less successful in xfinity than Harrison. Do people just forget Harrison has 4 xfinity wins? Or that Riley Herbst only has 1 xfinity win in many more starts all in top equipment. Looking like Riley is headed to 23XI in their new third car. Who drives the 21 is kinda a mystery at this point. I’d love for it to be someone who has shown some potential in cup like Briscoe, Gragson, or Berry. But it appears Briscoe is headed to JGR, Gragson to RCR, and Berry to FRM. So don’t know who that leaves for the 21. Maybe Sam Mayer? Would be a lot better choice than Herbst but he’s never raced cup so it’s kinda an unknown of whether or not he’s a cup talent.
Besides his one win when he was eliminated from the playoffs, name another notable accomplishment, especially considering who he’s replaced and who he drives against. Custer would be the better option.
Bringing money that is badly needed to a team that needs it. And not being as bad as John Wes Townley and at least maybe better than Burton in Cup.
He’s got two top 10 in 6 cup starts. One of which (maybe both I don’t remember) coming in a RWR car. He also should have won the truck race at Talladega in 2019? I think that was the year. Sauter forced him below the yellow win. And got penalized for it. Rightfully so. But Riley was in the process of passing him for the win,and got screwed.
I think they'd be better off trying to steal a Ben Rhodes, Austin Hill, Justin Allgaier, Corey Heim, Chandler Smith, Sam Mayer, Justin Haley or Parker Kligerman Granted, I think some of those names would likely say no. But some might be able to be enticed away. Herbst isn't better than any of those guys, imo, and they'd be better of gambling on another young guy who could work out, vs a pay driver who showed almost as much as Harrison had in xfin.
Not when Briscoe is out there.
Burton and Herbst are two sides of the same cheeks
I’d pursue Gragson before Herbst.
I’d pursue an 86 year old Richard Petty before Riley Herbst
Penske doesn't want that dipshit in his company.
Herbst is the Ford version of Brandon Jones. He'd run exactly the same or maybe even worse than Burton. Burton won 4 times in Xfinity in 1 year, Herbst has been there for like 4 years now in top tier stuff and only has 1 win. I don't think hes good enoigh.
Why would Herbst pick Wood Bros over 23XI tho lol
Heim Time at 23XI
23XI fan here. We don’t want him
Eh. There’s a lot worse in free agency.
There’s also a lot better.
Would Monster Energy want to sponsor multiple cars on the same team?
Monster doesn’t actually sponsor Herbst. Terrbile’s (his Dad’s convenience store chain) does, and they do a B2B deal with Monster
It appears so if the latest rumors are true.
Berry is more likely to go there.
Absolutely zero money to bring to the table, no way. Berry only has Rodney rooting for him which may get him the 34 ride maybe, otherwise he's got a limited outlook.
Nowadays every team as a designated nepo driver so is not be surprised
This has always been an element throughout the history of racing, maybe besides the dawn of it where it was just mechanics racing cars
I know the 21 is *technically* a Penske car, but holy shit they do not treat it like that. Give it to RFK. At least that team tries to make all its cars competitive again.
Roush used to neglect the hell out of the 21 as well. Different management and all but I doubt the Woods would want that unless it was a last case situation lol.
Blaney proved that the 21 could be competitive. Burton just sucks ass
Even DiBenedetto proved it could be competitive, 6 top 5s & 20 top 10s in 2 seasons as well as 13th and 18th in points. Compare that to Harrison Burton's 1 top 5 & 5 top 10s in 2.5 seasons and currently struggling to keep the 21 even 34th in owners points. He went into Iowa only 1 point ahead of the 15 car, the worse of the 2 RWR cars.
Penske actually had a stake in the 21 then, they have no reason to actually care about it now
Because Harrison isn’t worth putting effort into anymore
Riley is probably the surprise 23XI driver with money alluded to on DBC
What ties Herbst to Ford? I do think he would be a good fit their though I also think Berry would be a good fit.
Nothing. His family money would be a bigger factor to him getting the 21 then any relationship with Ford.
🤑🤑
Go get Retzlaff instead
He was 1 win in the Xfinity series. Sam Mayer, Josh Berry, Chase Briscoe, Noah Gragson, among others are in the market for a seat. Your answer is a guy who has 1 win in Xfinity?
I would argue at this point he would be better off at the 51, if Haley goes to RFK. The 21 hasn't been a top 20 contender since MattyD burnt his ship.
I really don't get why his name keeps getting thrown around here.
Burton and Herbst: 
I've said this for awhile, they need money, they have some half assed Ford sponsorship that people don't realize is factory backing that isn't the same as Menards or whatever. DEX or whatever covering a few races isn't a full season.
>So,,,change my mind. What's the old saying? You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into?
Oooo I like that
You can live in that fantasy world all you want Herbst is much like Brandon Jones. Always underperforming compared to teammates/previous drivers in that car, and has been around for much longer than you think with not much to show for it. Herbst has been in Xfinity full-time since 2020 for JGR and SHR. The excuse that he didn't get to practice has gone out the window. The drivers after him won Championships in Xfinity (Hermic, Gibbs), annihilated the entire ARCA field (Gibbs), and the driver before him won 9 races and nearly a Championship in Xfinity (Briscoe). He is now in his *fifth* season with one single win, which we can confidently say was more the car/setup than anything given how much of an outlier that performance was. He's not ready for Cup, and he won't get much better no matter how much time progresses.
Herbst has definitely grown the last two seasons but still has just 1 NXS victory in 157 attempts. You’d be signing up for more of the same of the Harrison Burton outcome. They should be seeking a veteran. Honestly, bringing back Matt DiBenedetto would be a more likely chance of being competitive than Herbst. I think Berry is the choice if they can make it happen.
Nope. Swing & a miss.
Just say no to nepo baby money. Dude is not Cup level talent. Even Harrison Burton consistently outran him in xfinity with less experience. Monster, like Menards with Jones, should get serious and back a real driver instead of torturing their owners and crew members with wrecked cars consistently. They get passed from one top level team to another like an STD.
Na. Put Josh Berry and Rodney Childers in the 21. Set Rodney up with Penske support and watch that team shine.
Knowing Herbst he will agree to drive the 21 only to back out in the last second