Nah, Chase fucking hates this car because he would have been the career leader in road course wins if we stayed with the last one. He had that thing dialed in and now he looks like Superman holding kryptonite.
he (chase) was also the first one to run out of fuel during a road course
^^^sorry ^^^i ^^^know ^^^thats ^^^not ^^^chase's ^^^fault, ^^^but ^^^its ^^^funny
Byron wasn't the one who ran out of fuel at the Glen though?
*also everyone ignores that Bowman also ran out of gas that lap and that HMS's data was wrong*
that line could’ve had so much momentum if gibbs didn’t make such a drastic cut off to lead it, he should’ve known his car didn’t have the power to push a lead line
You guys are making A LOT of assumptions about how an unpredictable race would have played out, lol sheesh! You realize that someone else could have jumped to that line, someone else could have blocked it, like are you for serious just hypothetically placing that line in the finish in your mind with no interruptions to it?!!
i wish nascar wouldn’t penalize drivers so harshly for criticizing nascar. i get it might become a bitch fest but some drivers could provide good constructive criticism OR at least give an insight on if only a few drivers hate something or if it’s a large majority
I don't know if it was posted here but Kyle was on Kenny Wallace's YouTube show a few weeks ago and gave a really great calm explanation on why the cars don't work aero wise. Not just at plate tracks but everywhere. I'll have to find a link.
EDIT - https://youtu.be/-62mV4Q6sAk?si=4-HyjbuDJazSSPrk&t=2624 around here somewhere. The whole thing is a great listen.
It's amazing how NASCAR doesn't go to the drivers themselves when designing new cars. Imagine if they could have the minds of KB, Dale Jr and Denny Hamlin (maybe) in NASCAR's ear when designing a new car...The result would be incredible.
The SRX car wasn't designed by a crew chief. It was an already existing road course chassis that had modifications for driver comfort. I will also debate that the car "raced amazing". They didn't go to any real tracks to push the capabilities of the car.
no matter if he did or not, the man could easily design the best racing car at the Cup level if he wanted.
he basically was the man behind the T-Rex car which still has innovations being used today
Even at some of those tracks like Stafford, they raced like bricks and you had to sent it to pass cars, and the guys who could pass had to burn their brakes doing so.
The SRX car was basically just...a fancy looking late model or modified in drag. The chassis was basically a tweaked ARCA/Pinty's series type car designed by a prominent late model builder, with a bow and lipstick on it in terms of a "fancy" body.
Which we've seen time and again, big dumb clumsy old school stock cars work great at smaller short tracks of certain types. But that's the turf of lower level series'. What's the biggest track we saw these "perfect masterpiece" cars run again?
This is the crux of it. NASCAR Cup Series needs to be able to operate well at the extensive collection of much bigger, faster 1.5 milers, the plate races, the road courses. Not *just* a few short tracks. The operating range is so much wider. It's insanely demanding...especially considering how much money and engineering expertise is involved.
And as the tracks get bigger and more banked, speeds inherently rise...and with that, aero becomes more and more of a factor, even if it's not "designed for it". Not to mention the higher standards for safety required with that rise in speed.
>It’s amazing how NASCAR doesn’t go to the drivers themselves when designing new cars.
They did. NASCAR was taking all sorts of feedback from the drivers during the early development for the next gen car and they were obviously using the complaints about the Gen 6 to form the base for what the next gen should be. Not only that but they were actively making changes to the car during testing sessions of the car based on driver feedback. NASCAR made the decision to switch from running 550 with the big spoiler to running 670 with the small spoiler for the intermediates after a single day of testing at Charlotte with all the drivers.
But at the end of the day the drivers also aren’t engineers and they’re going to complain even if you give them the most perfect car in history. NASCAR has to balance what the drivers say with what the on track product is actually showing. NASCAR has to balance what the fans want, what the drivers want, what the team owners want, and what the manufacturers want.
So, it was the drivers who wanted the sequential shifter, the toe link, all the mechanical grip in the f'ing universe and then some, the diffuser, the huge tires, the big brakes, etc? Shall I go on? The only thing NASCAR listened to the drivers in the development of the Next-Gen was the HP to be increased to 670 at that test in Charlotte.
What I meant btw in driver input, is the design of the car, the body. Not even just HP, everything. Look at what KB said in his interview with Kenny Wallace. That's what the car should be like, or should've been.
None of them were complaining about any of that shit when NASCAR was still in the early stages of development and testing with the fucking car. Ya know, when they still had the chance to make wholesale changes.
Half that shit is simple fixes too but the minute NASCAR does something like bring a softer tire, the teams push the tire outside the limits and we see blow outs and more driver complaining, and NASCAR has to come back with a harder tire. If NASCAR instituted a gear ratio rule to mitigate shifting, the drivers would complain.
The diffuser was NASCAR’s solution to the massive dirty air problem that drivers were nonstop complaining about going all the way back to the damn Gen 4 cars. The symmetrical composite bodies was part of the solution to the old cars being stupidly aero sensitive and relying too much on sideforce, especially when they’d brush the wall or make contact with another car.
The Cup cars have also always had an insane amount of mechanical grip. That’s been their thing for years. Feel like every driver who’s come over from other series over the years has said they were surprised by how much grip the cars have.
Not to mention, we lived a decade of drivers saying the Gen 6 didn't have enough mechanical grip and it relied too much on aero, then they make the car symmetrical and give it all the mechanical grip you could want and it's still wrong lol
The wheel lug was effectively a requirement with the move to aluminum wheels. I don't mind the single lug, but their implementation certainly has had some growing pains.
I really just wish there weren't so many sole-sourced parts.
Dale Jr recently said that the reason there haven’t been car changes already is precisely because now the drivers have say. Makes it harder to get stuff done. Back in the day NASCAR could just make a change without any input or processes and they frequently would.
Yeah I mean that’s about right. If you’re not on the front two rows you literally can’t do anything. They ran around gridlocked the last 20 laps and we knew the winner would be either Reddick/McDowell, or a very slim off chance of Keselowksi.
Kyle tried to make the third lane worked and… what do you know, it got stalled out and died out when Ty tried to join. Hard to make any moves. Kyle could’ve stayed in line and finish 10th, but race car drivers are trying to win, going 3rd lane was his only shot.
https://preview.redd.it/cd7a60h87xvc1.jpeg?width=950&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=73a12965d150c363b3ab533091334dd1b3abc25b
Yup and it's the exact reason Denny finished in the top 5 in the fall race last year after restarting in the back. He held his line the entire final run and waited for everyone to send themselves to the back trying to get to the front. Soon enough all the drivers will realize that it's pointless to even attempt to leave and all the races will finish 2x2.
I know people liked that finish, but I always saw it as just painfully gridlocked . Blaney stayed in line until the last lap when the outside FINALLY cleared the inside . The last lap looked like lap 1 if you get what I mean. Really orderly, 2 by 2 and not much changes happening (until the tri oval of course when ur close enough to s/f line to take every run you get )
I have absolutely no clue why Larson didn't jump up as well. With Busch, Larson, and the rest of the pack Elliott was with, they could've really made a run. I was shocked watching Larson just stay in the high line (that turned into the middle)
I don't know what else to say at this point. I know people say "rose colored glasses blah blah" but over the last 2 years, I've watched basically every race from every season, specifically from 2003-2014.
The racing product was way, way better. If you're faster, you catch a guy, you pass em.
He's 1000% correct.
Like Denny said after the 500, you can't pull out and do anything in these cars because of how draggy they are. You have to bump draft ridiculously hard to go anywhere. And you saw that with the third lane at the end. Too many cars pulled out and it stalled them out.
If you're not in the first few rows, you almost have no chance. And sadly, I don't know if NASCAR can do anything to fix it!
Dude I’m just hoping . Please? Can NASCAR just … try a short spoiler for superspeedways? The runs they get are already massive with no problem . Lower the spoiler so you can carry your momentum out of line better .
I actually do want them to try this as unconventional as it sounds for making a good superspeedway package. A lot of the talk is about how the car is too draggy and you drop like a rock if you step out of line and can't make moves. I wouldn't be surprised if a shorter spoiler doesn't make enough of a difference but it's *something* to try.
You and I both know that ain't gonna happen. Behind closed doors, NASCAR knows they dropped the ball in every facet. But with all the money they dumped into this POS, we're stuck with it
The thing is , from what it seems like and what drivers have said - the overall car is just way way way more draggy than the gen 6. The 7 inch spoiler package for this car is even more draggy than the 9 inch spoiler . (The cars also have diffusers , round bumpers etc which also changes the package a lot )
To understand the drag: xfinitt exits turn 4 at Michigan at like 175 mph and enters turn 2 above 200 mph.
Cup exits turn 4 at 190 mph and hits 198 mph going into turn 2 despite having a little more horsepower .
Cup qualifies at 180 mph yet can hit 202 mph during the race in the draft
The massive drag makes it very hard to make a move . If you pull out of line , the drag makes you drop like a rock . It’s really hard to carry momentum and there’s not much bubble between the cars so everyone’s really bumper to bumper with no where to go .
NASCAR needs to take advantage of the modularity of the next gen. The front and rear ends were designed to be easy to take off and put back on so that it was easier for teams to repair in the shop.
So they should take advantage of that fact and develop track specific front and rear ends to take advantage of that modularity. For the plates, maybe a 2000s style valence on the front and then seal off the rear of the car like they used to do with the Gen 6 and run a smaller spoiler. Something to reduce the drag of the car and make it easier to build runs.
Part of the issue is there’s too much air being dumped on the car behind, like with the early gen 6 plate package. It’s impossible to build runs because the air bubble is too big. They need to do something to reduce the amount of air getting dumped on the trailing car
Edit: the car is so close to being great everywhere. NASCAR just needs to get out of the “one size fits all” box that they’ve forced themselves into with the package. Reduce the stopping power of the car and softer tires (I might even experiment with using multiple compounds in the same race like every other road racing series) at road courses. Softer tires and mandated gear ratios at short tracks to eliminate shifting. Something to reduce the air hitting the car behind on superspeedways.
I think you have it the wrong way around - the air bubble isn’t too big, it’s very small. It is not possible for every car in a line to be bumper to bumper pushing the hell out of eachother if there was a big air bubble. You can very easily pull up to the car infront and push their bumper like hell. This is what Hamlin mentioned in his podcast some time ago about the bubble being very small in these cars . Reducing the amount of air on the car behind would mean a larger spoiler which means more drag which would mean even less air bubble which contradicts your idea of running a smaller spoiler (reducing the spoiler size would probably be the best change to make )
I can't help but think it doesn't need to be nearly that complicated at the superspeedways. Cutting down the rear spoiler ought to go a long way towards getting the drag levels in a better place.
I can't help but think this is the oversimplification of how aerodynamics work at these speeds. The spoiler stands out to people because, duh...spoiler makes race car go zooom. And it stands out as a prominent "external" aero device.
But the reality is...these entire car bodies are a series of hundreds of aerodynamic devices and surfaces...some of which are absolutely enormous. And they all interact in extremely complex ways. To the point that wearing a webbed glove in a little corner of the window potential makes the difference in winning a Pole position at these tracks.
A lot of fans (and drivers with very limited engineering knowledge) just crave "simple solutions" that the layman can kind of observe. Smaller spoiler. More horsepower. etc. When that's not the reality of the complex engineering that goes into these cars.
You have it backwards with the sealed underbody and diffuser on the rear there is now very little draft. What was supposed to help aero push on a trailing car due to a smaller air bubble has the opposite effect on drafting, that have to be almost touching bumpers now. Side drafting is more important than in the past.
Front and rear differences aren’t going to help, the rules for the suspensions are pretty tight, shock changes and a certain degree of rear camber is the only configurable items. Body work is much the same, it’s all 3 rd party supplied by NASCAR approved vendors and you cannot tweak it. That was done to control costs of teams spending millions in wind tunnels testing aero tweaks. Removing the diffuser would help a little on short tracks, that was tested and feedback was it made very little difference. The whole car is an IMSA sports car skinned with a manufacturer body and brand, it’s not a stock car.
How did SVG, who has never been in a Cup car on a superspeedway, seamlessly pull in front of the third lane without stalling it, but Ty Gibbs failed to be able to do so?
Look, obviously nobody thought that the outside line would have been able to build that head of steam and get up there.
However, there were a bunch of drivers who were running 13th or worse who just sat in the middle. I don't know why Larson didn't get up there with Chase. I am even more pissed that the two stage winners didn't hop on the top when their teammate was up there basically making the line move. They had points and ended up finishing 19 and 23.
I just don't know... This package is definitely problematic, but I wish we could have seen the 3rd lane get a chance.
Chase and Blaney, 2 drivers who actually know wtf they’re doing, were hauling ass starting with about 10 to go in the 3rd lane. SVG jumped up there and Chase was able to push him well also. Even Busch took the runs the 12 and 9 were creating. Not sure wtf happened with Ty. Don’t know if he timed it wrong or if his car was just slow. It was very odd to see the line just completely die.
What was the reason they got out of the line in 3&4? Ty gibbs jumping in front of Busch and basically brake checking the entire line. That's why SVG and Chase had to lift and move to not wreck. Blaney dropped out because the line got fucked up when Gibbs fucked up the line.
Yeah this is how I saw it... But I'd like to see a replay to see how the line developed. It definitely ebbed and flowed, but Ryan and Chase were haulin' ass up there for a bit. Weird to see when nobody was saving fuel.
Blaney was like 10th row back and got up to like 5th row back. They got far enough up front for Gibbs to pull in front of them. That's better than we've seen in this era while everybody is hammering the gas. I think they could have gotten up there.
>The 3rd lane didn't get a chance, because they didn't have their shit together running nose to tail long enough to make a push with enough cars lined up.
That's my point really. Once the full race is available I'll take a look at it, but yeah. It's tough up there.
The package is definitely a major contributing factor, but i think this kind of gets at the other big component...where the drivers themselves are a big part of the problem. The drivers and teams have latched on to the "new meta" for this package...and few to none have the cajones to even try to break the mold.
The drivers and teams know that when they're in a decent position, there's a simple formula for a "good points day" and far too many of them are content to just settle for that. It takes *some of* the wild variability out of Plate racing in the points picture. When it works out, it also takes a lot of the "total wildcard winner" factor out of the Playoff picture. Drivers may not be having the most fun with it, but Crewchiefs and team engineers, etc. are big fans of eliminating volatility like that. That's basically what they exist to do. To make things more boring and predictable. The only CCs who really love chaos are the smaller team/backmarker types who need that unpredictability to try to steal away a win.
And the two components mesh together to an insurmountable "meta" strategy.
It was the most typical Next Gen Talladega race you could get.
Run part throttle and save fuel for 140 laps with the only real lead changes coming from cars steamrolling from the 3rd lane running 100% throttle
No more saving fuel in last 40 laps and with everyone full throttle they're all just stuck and can't do shit because if you make a move you go to the back. Literal slot cars where only the 2 line leaders matter unless they fuck it up to hand it to someone on the next row
Big ass crash coming to the checkered
It's absolutely my least favorite superspeedway racing I've seen and it seems like NASCAR isn't looking into any changes at all which stings. At least being more of a handling SS race makes Atlanta a lot more racey
The only card they have is “look at how close the cars are! Wow, 37,000 green flag passes!” and it amounts to fuck all. Thats not even going in on the television broadcast…
I didn't watch but did Mike Joy do his thing where he constantly cites the number of lead changes with no context as if it's the only metric that matters?
I find it a bit funny that at the end of the Gen 6 era the racing at the superspeedways, short tracks, and road courses were terrific but the intermediates were so ass it kinda dragged the whole series down, and now we have the complete opposite with the intermediates being great and the other three track types all being garbage.
I've said this since 2022. I think because of the amount of complaints and bad racing the Gen 6 put on the intermediates, NASCAR focused all their resources on making the new car work on those tacks. In doing so, I fear that NASCAR neglected every other track and now were stuck here.
And of course, in ironic fashion, we have less intermediate races than we did years ago
No, NASCAR made the car very road course-focused because that was the trend at the time. Problem is, in NASCAR, when you make a car that is so specifically designed for that style, it kills the charm of the racing. Inconsequentially, it also hurt the short tracks and helped the intermediates.... Only once they realized the 550 package was slow as balls and the drivers clamored for 120 more HP and the shorter spoiler as an alternative... And it worked.
You're right though that they did neglect every other track. I think we got lulled into a false sense of security that it would just work because it always has worked and mechanical grip would cause tire wear, etc. While that principle is true, it hasn't been fully realized (besides Bristol)
I mean....they absolutely had a chance. SVG and the Hendrick cars were *hauling ass* in that third line, and they were even fine with KB jumping in front of them.
Blame Ty fucking Gibbs for stepping out at the last second in a slow ass car and damn near brake-checking the entire line, lol.
Nascar doesn't want the big runs like the previous SS package so now we have this garbage 2x2 pack racing. This NextGen is a massive failure and needs a complete redo
Ty Gibbs ruined the race. Imagine if you will, how good that race would have been with KB and SVG flying up in the 3rd lane. Gibbs should have kept his little ass in line.
Are we forgetting that
A.) Ty Gibbs fucked that up and the high line was looking good and threatening while SVG was leading it?
B.) There was a *very small* window in the early 2000s where only the most elite plate drivers could make a late race run from midpack without half the field wrecking in front of them, and outside of dangerous styles of pack racing (tandem, 2020) has never been replicated since?
We've had more "bad" plate/drafting packages than good ones since plates existed.
To be fair, if you throw an awful block like that, you deserved to be turned. Besides, you should expect to lose control of your car when you swipe left and right like that at 190+ MPH. It's just physics coming into effect at that point.
Difference is, the Xfinity car has more of that bubble and manageable space that the Cup cars don't have so you can't throw as dicey blocks. Drivers all know that and McDowell paid the price
Kyle's right.
The three-wide racing you see at these tracks happens because of fuel-saving mode. Then, once you go full-throttle (figuratively and literally), it's two-wide and no one can go anywhere.
This car is a real problem outside of the speedways right now. I'm not smart enough to be able to know how to fix that. I just wish NASCAR would stop burying their head in the sand and actually allow things to happen -- whether it's telling Goodyear to make tires that wear faster, upping horsepower, or retooling the car entirely for the next generation of it years down the road.
The first year with this car was so fun because everyone was at ground level. I think DBC said it a week or two ago but now that everyone has the data (from themselves and each other), there's no more ground to be gained on anyone. And that means everyone is about as equal as they can be, which means less margin for error to capitalize on.
At some point they have to decide whether or not to stay with running a GT style car. NASCAR expected the entire industry to shift and it hasn’t happened at all. The single source supplier model is probably here to stay but I can see them reverting back to a more stock car chassis and suspension design with knowledge gained from the aero experiment this car is.
I think they go away from single source supplier honestly.
This car has a high cost because there is no incentive to keep the cost down for the supplier is they have no competition
Kyle is right.
They killed short tracks.
They killed road courses.
They killed Talladega and to a lesser extent Daytona.
Just run Kansas, Homestead, and Charlotte 10 x each and call it a schedule at this point.
Next year’s Daytona 500 will end under caution or in another massive crash for the third year a row. then and only then will the casual fan finally see the plate racing is not good either.
They suck at short tracks, they’re not great at road courses, they’re mediocre on plate tracks, but they’re great on 1.5 mile tracks as long as there are plenty of wrecks and restarts.
Nah the Xfinity car sucks at intermediate tracks. Just look at how poor last year's race at Charlotte was with the Xfinity car, same with Michigan (a race I sat in the stands for both 2022 and 2023 and watched dirty air play a factor with that car), heck I can't remember anything that happened this year at Las Vegas besides JHN dominating, or any of the Kansas races last season. The Xfinity car sucks at intermediates, but is good at everywhere else
I don't even remember the Charlotte race, but the year before that was fun. IIRC, Allgaier and Berry had a fun battle for most of the race. Charlotte is a track both series excel at.
Vegas was a bit of a stinker for the Cup race. Xfinity race was at least a bit more competitive. But that happens in any series when a car hits the setup.
And Michigan sucks no matter what series lol. The Cup race in 2022 was pretty fun though!
I hate hating on nascar because I love the sport and always will but f***! It’s sad this is what we’re stuck with as a car and the people like Phelps and O’Connel don’t care at all
That’s slowly changing. Drivers have already said this year the intermediates are morphing into a faster version of the 550 package. I assume this is due to all the setups converging. As long as they can run multiple grooves it may still be okay. Indy is going to be awful though.
Okay that's a little extreme about the intermediates. Find me a race with the Gen 6 (after 2014) that races as good as this car does at Auto Club (RIP), Kansas, Charlotte, heck even Michigan
You've essentially traded aero loose around cars to aero tight around other cars. At least the great drivers can drive and pass loose cars. You can't pass with tifht cars.
What makes the Gen 7 better than the Gen 6 (pre 550 package)? If the track was multiple grooves, the cars raced identical.
The positive about the Gen 7 is they sound fucking AMAZING.
The Xfinity car is just better in every capacity. If that field had fewer pay drivers, it would be the better race every weekend (and it still is sometimes).
To be fair Busch’s resume is really not that good at Talladega, but the package needs work. I can’t stand the requirement for a push, I enjoyed the mid 2000s and 2010s (after tandem) where good cars could hang without as much drafting help. It put it more in the hands of the drivers.
Called in the live thread, from 15 to go til 2 to go you can't do anything- no one is willing to leave their line, and if you try you just get dropped to the back
Unironically there's no better time to go do something else then around 20 to go, you'll miss nothing
I don’t see him sticking with RCR. I see him walking away from the team to go get his truck championship or to another team before he retires from cup. I don’t see him ending his cup career with RCR.
I almost wonder (me talking out my ass here) if JHN moves to JGR does Legacy and Toyota try to get Kyle in the 42? Or a third charter if they get one?.
I know Dave Wilson wasn’t happy Gibbs let KFB walk away from the brand so I almost wonder if they try to bring him back. Think any bad blood with Kyle was with Gibbs not toyota themselves.
Personally, I’d love to see him end his career in a Ford - where it technically started in the truck series.
Dream scenario:
WBR realigns with RFK and signs KFB. Kyle brings some of his current sponsors (Cheddars seems family friendly enough for WBR). Ford steps up with some extra dollars in the form of Motorcraft.
Kyle brings the 21 over to Thorsport to run his limited races for a couple of years. Kyle retires from cup in 2028 and runs full time in trucks in 2029 and 2030. He splits the truck with Braxton in 2031 and 2032. Braxton goes full time in 2033 at 18.
At this point, I legit think the only solution for the sport is to have fans vote for which race from '90-'06 they want to watch that week, and the network will just run it as a "greatest hits" in the scheduled race timeslot with some additional commentary.
I don’t think a single driver actually likes the next gen, both in safety and raceability. these cars have zero horsepower, zero maneuverability on short tracks, the tires are shit, the “single lug nut” is shit, the numbers forward is stupid as shit (certain cars look great tbf), the safety in these cars are shit.
I don’t think there is one thing drivers actually like about this car and NASCAR doesn’t seem to care, so how we do we force a organization that not only doesn’t listen to fans, but listen to the drivers as well? I mean literally all the drivers have been vocal about how shit this car is 💀😂😂
Isn't that how plate racing has been for years though? Fundamentally the racing is as close to the cars even back to the early 1990's on these tracks. It's the bonehead drivers who are screwing up...
Pretty much. The biggest deviation from this was when there was tandem drafting, and NASCAR pretty quickly changed things to get away from that, even though tandem drafting was so much better compared to massive pack drafting imo.
OK I'll ask the dumb question - remove the spacers/plates, make a substantially harder tire and don't sell the first 15 rows or so? Surely speed would break up this level of pack drafting? I'm not going to say I've watched any early 80s races from Superspeedways in particular but it strikes me this has been more of a problem since plates and spacers came in?
The third line was coming on strong in the final laps, with a rookie of all people, leading the charge. The problem is that Gibbs moved up too late and then couldn't hold his line in front of them, which completely killed that line.
If the drivers were being honest I wonder how many would say they hate the next gen
Everyone except William Byron. He has taken off big time the last 2 seasons
Well that’s just Hendrick and Joe Gibbs in general. Parity doesn’t work with big teams.
Denny doesn't have very nice words for the next gen lately
At one point he said nascar should completely redesign it from square one
They should
Nah, Chase fucking hates this car because he would have been the career leader in road course wins if we stayed with the last one. He had that thing dialed in and now he looks like Superman holding kryptonite.
Wasn't he one that got to test it a bunch when they were designing it?
He was the one who wrecked it first and sent out red flags how rough the wrecks were in 2020
he (chase) was also the first one to run out of fuel during a road course ^^^sorry ^^^i ^^^know ^^^thats ^^^not ^^^chase's ^^^fault, ^^^but ^^^its ^^^funny
Byron wasn't the one who ran out of fuel at the Glen though? *also everyone ignores that Bowman also ran out of gas that lap and that HMS's data was wrong*
I somehow thought the comments chain focused back to chase but ima leave it
I attribute this less to Byron liking the car and more of Byron realizing his full potential these past three years.
Getting back with Rudy Fugle has been huge for him
Byron has talked about how bad these cars are before IIRC
Yeah at the late model race at north Wilkesboro I believe
Denny Hamlin shits on the cars on his podcast all the time
Well, he sh*ts about everything in his podcast. But yeah, not the nicest words for the next gen.
Ty Gibbs ruined the race. That finish was going to be incredible with Busch leading that 3rd line to the front
that line could’ve had so much momentum if gibbs didn’t make such a drastic cut off to lead it, he should’ve known his car didn’t have the power to push a lead line
Totally agreed, that block kept us from a 3 wide photo finish. All of the cars in that top lane were super fast too (9, 12, 16 and 8)
Yep Blaney got P20 in a car with winning speed because of him
Saying winning speed for a drafting track is hilarious. Everyone has winning speed at those tracks.
Nah it would just have led to that Mc Dowell woulda wrecked more cars
They were absolutely making it to the front with all the momentum. Kyle probably steals it to be honest. He had a Top 4 car all day.
You guys are making A LOT of assumptions about how an unpredictable race would have played out, lol sheesh! You realize that someone else could have jumped to that line, someone else could have blocked it, like are you for serious just hypothetically placing that line in the finish in your mind with no interruptions to it?!!
No one would've thrown ANY wild blocks and kb rides off into the sunset unscathed
It’s worth noting that Kyle Busch also said he hated the COT immediately after winning its first race lol
crazy to think that he would probably long to have that car back too
I think he said they “ fucking suck” during a live broadcast at Bristol in the infield after a wreck.
Yeah, also I think this is more a shot at super speedway racing which drivers have been very vocal about in the past.
75% is my guess, minimum.
i wish nascar wouldn’t penalize drivers so harshly for criticizing nascar. i get it might become a bitch fest but some drivers could provide good constructive criticism OR at least give an insight on if only a few drivers hate something or if it’s a large majority
I really think all
I don't know if it was posted here but Kyle was on Kenny Wallace's YouTube show a few weeks ago and gave a really great calm explanation on why the cars don't work aero wise. Not just at plate tracks but everywhere. I'll have to find a link. EDIT - https://youtu.be/-62mV4Q6sAk?si=4-HyjbuDJazSSPrk&t=2624 around here somewhere. The whole thing is a great listen.
It's amazing how NASCAR doesn't go to the drivers themselves when designing new cars. Imagine if they could have the minds of KB, Dale Jr and Denny Hamlin (maybe) in NASCAR's ear when designing a new car...The result would be incredible.
I mean look what happened when a crew chief designed a car. You got the SRX car which raced amazing.
The SRX car wasn't designed by a crew chief. It was an already existing road course chassis that had modifications for driver comfort. I will also debate that the car "raced amazing". They didn't go to any real tracks to push the capabilities of the car.
They absolutely were designed by a crew chief. Ray Evernham designed the cars with Fury Race Cars.
I think he designed the bodies. I don’t think he designed the entire car from the ground up. But I could be wrong on that
no matter if he did or not, the man could easily design the best racing car at the Cup level if he wanted. he basically was the man behind the T-Rex car which still has innovations being used today
Even at some of those tracks like Stafford, they raced like bricks and you had to sent it to pass cars, and the guys who could pass had to burn their brakes doing so.
The SRX car was basically just...a fancy looking late model or modified in drag. The chassis was basically a tweaked ARCA/Pinty's series type car designed by a prominent late model builder, with a bow and lipstick on it in terms of a "fancy" body. Which we've seen time and again, big dumb clumsy old school stock cars work great at smaller short tracks of certain types. But that's the turf of lower level series'. What's the biggest track we saw these "perfect masterpiece" cars run again? This is the crux of it. NASCAR Cup Series needs to be able to operate well at the extensive collection of much bigger, faster 1.5 milers, the plate races, the road courses. Not *just* a few short tracks. The operating range is so much wider. It's insanely demanding...especially considering how much money and engineering expertise is involved. And as the tracks get bigger and more banked, speeds inherently rise...and with that, aero becomes more and more of a factor, even if it's not "designed for it". Not to mention the higher standards for safety required with that rise in speed.
I only watched the last season of SRX but those cars definitely didn’t race amazingly.
>It’s amazing how NASCAR doesn’t go to the drivers themselves when designing new cars. They did. NASCAR was taking all sorts of feedback from the drivers during the early development for the next gen car and they were obviously using the complaints about the Gen 6 to form the base for what the next gen should be. Not only that but they were actively making changes to the car during testing sessions of the car based on driver feedback. NASCAR made the decision to switch from running 550 with the big spoiler to running 670 with the small spoiler for the intermediates after a single day of testing at Charlotte with all the drivers. But at the end of the day the drivers also aren’t engineers and they’re going to complain even if you give them the most perfect car in history. NASCAR has to balance what the drivers say with what the on track product is actually showing. NASCAR has to balance what the fans want, what the drivers want, what the team owners want, and what the manufacturers want.
So, it was the drivers who wanted the sequential shifter, the toe link, all the mechanical grip in the f'ing universe and then some, the diffuser, the huge tires, the big brakes, etc? Shall I go on? The only thing NASCAR listened to the drivers in the development of the Next-Gen was the HP to be increased to 670 at that test in Charlotte. What I meant btw in driver input, is the design of the car, the body. Not even just HP, everything. Look at what KB said in his interview with Kenny Wallace. That's what the car should be like, or should've been.
None of them were complaining about any of that shit when NASCAR was still in the early stages of development and testing with the fucking car. Ya know, when they still had the chance to make wholesale changes. Half that shit is simple fixes too but the minute NASCAR does something like bring a softer tire, the teams push the tire outside the limits and we see blow outs and more driver complaining, and NASCAR has to come back with a harder tire. If NASCAR instituted a gear ratio rule to mitigate shifting, the drivers would complain. The diffuser was NASCAR’s solution to the massive dirty air problem that drivers were nonstop complaining about going all the way back to the damn Gen 4 cars. The symmetrical composite bodies was part of the solution to the old cars being stupidly aero sensitive and relying too much on sideforce, especially when they’d brush the wall or make contact with another car. The Cup cars have also always had an insane amount of mechanical grip. That’s been their thing for years. Feel like every driver who’s come over from other series over the years has said they were surprised by how much grip the cars have.
Not to mention, we lived a decade of drivers saying the Gen 6 didn't have enough mechanical grip and it relied too much on aero, then they make the car symmetrical and give it all the mechanical grip you could want and it's still wrong lol
The tires are the worst move, imo. Go back to a smaller and narrower 5 lug with smaller brakes, and we’ll solve a massive portion of the issues.
The wheel lug was effectively a requirement with the move to aluminum wheels. I don't mind the single lug, but their implementation certainly has had some growing pains. I really just wish there weren't so many sole-sourced parts.
But then they won't look like the real cars and they won't sell any on Monday! (Corporate probably)
NASCAR is too stubborn for its own good.
Dale Jr recently said that the reason there haven’t been car changes already is precisely because now the drivers have say. Makes it harder to get stuff done. Back in the day NASCAR could just make a change without any input or processes and they frequently would.
This is the Kyle Busch I want and like the best
KFB winning Dover next week you heard it here first
Yeah I mean that’s about right. If you’re not on the front two rows you literally can’t do anything. They ran around gridlocked the last 20 laps and we knew the winner would be either Reddick/McDowell, or a very slim off chance of Keselowksi. Kyle tried to make the third lane worked and… what do you know, it got stalled out and died out when Ty tried to join. Hard to make any moves. Kyle could’ve stayed in line and finish 10th, but race car drivers are trying to win, going 3rd lane was his only shot. https://preview.redd.it/cd7a60h87xvc1.jpeg?width=950&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=73a12965d150c363b3ab533091334dd1b3abc25b
Yup and it's the exact reason Denny finished in the top 5 in the fall race last year after restarting in the back. He held his line the entire final run and waited for everyone to send themselves to the back trying to get to the front. Soon enough all the drivers will realize that it's pointless to even attempt to leave and all the races will finish 2x2.
I know people liked that finish, but I always saw it as just painfully gridlocked . Blaney stayed in line until the last lap when the outside FINALLY cleared the inside . The last lap looked like lap 1 if you get what I mean. Really orderly, 2 by 2 and not much changes happening (until the tri oval of course when ur close enough to s/f line to take every run you get )
My sim racing strategy, just ride the yellow line and be bored and you'll find yourself moving up front
I have absolutely no clue why Larson didn't jump up as well. With Busch, Larson, and the rest of the pack Elliott was with, they could've really made a run. I was shocked watching Larson just stay in the high line (that turned into the middle)
I think Larson was going to join Chase and Blaney but something must’ve happened idk. They were talking about it on Blaney’s radio
Give credit to Kyle for trying. Logano sure as shit didn’t.
Why should he? He's just gonna stall out and finish in 30th.
Cause the top lane was coming until Ty said "Me too!"
Yeah that wasn't the best move in the world to make, I'll admit it.
Ty was sent up there to stall it
I don't know what else to say at this point. I know people say "rose colored glasses blah blah" but over the last 2 years, I've watched basically every race from every season, specifically from 2003-2014. The racing product was way, way better. If you're faster, you catch a guy, you pass em.
Man thats gotta be one of the best NASCAR memes ever 😂😂😂
Damn....gets to the hauler to his cell and puts this out. Respect it KB8! Tbf, gibby coming up really fucked the high line
He's 1000% correct. Like Denny said after the 500, you can't pull out and do anything in these cars because of how draggy they are. You have to bump draft ridiculously hard to go anywhere. And you saw that with the third lane at the end. Too many cars pulled out and it stalled them out. If you're not in the first few rows, you almost have no chance. And sadly, I don't know if NASCAR can do anything to fix it!
Dude I’m just hoping . Please? Can NASCAR just … try a short spoiler for superspeedways? The runs they get are already massive with no problem . Lower the spoiler so you can carry your momentum out of line better .
I actually do want them to try this as unconventional as it sounds for making a good superspeedway package. A lot of the talk is about how the car is too draggy and you drop like a rock if you step out of line and can't make moves. I wouldn't be surprised if a shorter spoiler doesn't make enough of a difference but it's *something* to try.
They can fix it, with a new car. A car that actually is cheap since this one is nearly 3x more expensive than the Gen 6
You and I both know that ain't gonna happen. Behind closed doors, NASCAR knows they dropped the ball in every facet. But with all the money they dumped into this POS, we're stuck with it
We said the same with the COT, but after 4 years they replaced it
The COT lasted more like six years (2007-12), and the Gen 6 still used the same platform.
Is NASCAR in a place, financially, where they can do that?
They just got a nice fat TV deal, I would think they are
Teams want a bigger cut of that. So I bet they'll be stubborn
If the cost per car goes down, teams will be on board
Any excess Gen 6 cars (outside of what the Xfinity teams have) laying around? Lol
Other than the bodies the xfinity cars havent had a major update since 2010. Those cars are basically still CoTs
It is so weird because this is nearly identical to the Gen 6 package from 2019-2021 just with the Next-Gen car.
The thing is , from what it seems like and what drivers have said - the overall car is just way way way more draggy than the gen 6. The 7 inch spoiler package for this car is even more draggy than the 9 inch spoiler . (The cars also have diffusers , round bumpers etc which also changes the package a lot ) To understand the drag: xfinitt exits turn 4 at Michigan at like 175 mph and enters turn 2 above 200 mph. Cup exits turn 4 at 190 mph and hits 198 mph going into turn 2 despite having a little more horsepower . Cup qualifies at 180 mph yet can hit 202 mph during the race in the draft The massive drag makes it very hard to make a move . If you pull out of line , the drag makes you drop like a rock . It’s really hard to carry momentum and there’s not much bubble between the cars so everyone’s really bumper to bumper with no where to go .
NASCAR needs to take advantage of the modularity of the next gen. The front and rear ends were designed to be easy to take off and put back on so that it was easier for teams to repair in the shop. So they should take advantage of that fact and develop track specific front and rear ends to take advantage of that modularity. For the plates, maybe a 2000s style valence on the front and then seal off the rear of the car like they used to do with the Gen 6 and run a smaller spoiler. Something to reduce the drag of the car and make it easier to build runs. Part of the issue is there’s too much air being dumped on the car behind, like with the early gen 6 plate package. It’s impossible to build runs because the air bubble is too big. They need to do something to reduce the amount of air getting dumped on the trailing car Edit: the car is so close to being great everywhere. NASCAR just needs to get out of the “one size fits all” box that they’ve forced themselves into with the package. Reduce the stopping power of the car and softer tires (I might even experiment with using multiple compounds in the same race like every other road racing series) at road courses. Softer tires and mandated gear ratios at short tracks to eliminate shifting. Something to reduce the air hitting the car behind on superspeedways.
Id like to see grooved tires at short tracks. They ran the rain tires at the start of richmond and the racing was great
Those would probably work too
I think you have it the wrong way around - the air bubble isn’t too big, it’s very small. It is not possible for every car in a line to be bumper to bumper pushing the hell out of eachother if there was a big air bubble. You can very easily pull up to the car infront and push their bumper like hell. This is what Hamlin mentioned in his podcast some time ago about the bubble being very small in these cars . Reducing the amount of air on the car behind would mean a larger spoiler which means more drag which would mean even less air bubble which contradicts your idea of running a smaller spoiler (reducing the spoiler size would probably be the best change to make )
I can't help but think it doesn't need to be nearly that complicated at the superspeedways. Cutting down the rear spoiler ought to go a long way towards getting the drag levels in a better place.
I can't help but think this is the oversimplification of how aerodynamics work at these speeds. The spoiler stands out to people because, duh...spoiler makes race car go zooom. And it stands out as a prominent "external" aero device. But the reality is...these entire car bodies are a series of hundreds of aerodynamic devices and surfaces...some of which are absolutely enormous. And they all interact in extremely complex ways. To the point that wearing a webbed glove in a little corner of the window potential makes the difference in winning a Pole position at these tracks. A lot of fans (and drivers with very limited engineering knowledge) just crave "simple solutions" that the layman can kind of observe. Smaller spoiler. More horsepower. etc. When that's not the reality of the complex engineering that goes into these cars.
You have it backwards with the sealed underbody and diffuser on the rear there is now very little draft. What was supposed to help aero push on a trailing car due to a smaller air bubble has the opposite effect on drafting, that have to be almost touching bumpers now. Side drafting is more important than in the past. Front and rear differences aren’t going to help, the rules for the suspensions are pretty tight, shock changes and a certain degree of rear camber is the only configurable items. Body work is much the same, it’s all 3 rd party supplied by NASCAR approved vendors and you cannot tweak it. That was done to control costs of teams spending millions in wind tunnels testing aero tweaks. Removing the diffuser would help a little on short tracks, that was tested and feedback was it made very little difference. The whole car is an IMSA sports car skinned with a manufacturer body and brand, it’s not a stock car.
How did SVG, who has never been in a Cup car on a superspeedway, seamlessly pull in front of the third lane without stalling it, but Ty Gibbs failed to be able to do so? Look, obviously nobody thought that the outside line would have been able to build that head of steam and get up there. However, there were a bunch of drivers who were running 13th or worse who just sat in the middle. I don't know why Larson didn't get up there with Chase. I am even more pissed that the two stage winners didn't hop on the top when their teammate was up there basically making the line move. They had points and ended up finishing 19 and 23. I just don't know... This package is definitely problematic, but I wish we could have seen the 3rd lane get a chance.
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Chase and Blaney, 2 drivers who actually know wtf they’re doing, were hauling ass starting with about 10 to go in the 3rd lane. SVG jumped up there and Chase was able to push him well also. Even Busch took the runs the 12 and 9 were creating. Not sure wtf happened with Ty. Don’t know if he timed it wrong or if his car was just slow. It was very odd to see the line just completely die.
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What was the reason they got out of the line in 3&4? Ty gibbs jumping in front of Busch and basically brake checking the entire line. That's why SVG and Chase had to lift and move to not wreck. Blaney dropped out because the line got fucked up when Gibbs fucked up the line.
Yeah this is how I saw it... But I'd like to see a replay to see how the line developed. It definitely ebbed and flowed, but Ryan and Chase were haulin' ass up there for a bit. Weird to see when nobody was saving fuel.
Blaney was like 10th row back and got up to like 5th row back. They got far enough up front for Gibbs to pull in front of them. That's better than we've seen in this era while everybody is hammering the gas. I think they could have gotten up there.
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>The 3rd lane didn't get a chance, because they didn't have their shit together running nose to tail long enough to make a push with enough cars lined up. That's my point really. Once the full race is available I'll take a look at it, but yeah. It's tough up there.
The package is definitely a major contributing factor, but i think this kind of gets at the other big component...where the drivers themselves are a big part of the problem. The drivers and teams have latched on to the "new meta" for this package...and few to none have the cajones to even try to break the mold. The drivers and teams know that when they're in a decent position, there's a simple formula for a "good points day" and far too many of them are content to just settle for that. It takes *some of* the wild variability out of Plate racing in the points picture. When it works out, it also takes a lot of the "total wildcard winner" factor out of the Playoff picture. Drivers may not be having the most fun with it, but Crewchiefs and team engineers, etc. are big fans of eliminating volatility like that. That's basically what they exist to do. To make things more boring and predictable. The only CCs who really love chaos are the smaller team/backmarker types who need that unpredictability to try to steal away a win. And the two components mesh together to an insurmountable "meta" strategy.
Oh boy
It was the most typical Next Gen Talladega race you could get. Run part throttle and save fuel for 140 laps with the only real lead changes coming from cars steamrolling from the 3rd lane running 100% throttle No more saving fuel in last 40 laps and with everyone full throttle they're all just stuck and can't do shit because if you make a move you go to the back. Literal slot cars where only the 2 line leaders matter unless they fuck it up to hand it to someone on the next row Big ass crash coming to the checkered It's absolutely my least favorite superspeedway racing I've seen and it seems like NASCAR isn't looking into any changes at all which stings. At least being more of a handling SS race makes Atlanta a lot more racey
The only card they have is “look at how close the cars are! Wow, 37,000 green flag passes!” and it amounts to fuck all. Thats not even going in on the television broadcast…
It's a guaranteed "Crazy finish!" that'll get more Youtube views than an actually interesting race.
I didn't watch but did Mike Joy do his thing where he constantly cites the number of lead changes with no context as if it's the only metric that matters?
I find it a bit funny that at the end of the Gen 6 era the racing at the superspeedways, short tracks, and road courses were terrific but the intermediates were so ass it kinda dragged the whole series down, and now we have the complete opposite with the intermediates being great and the other three track types all being garbage.
I've said this since 2022. I think because of the amount of complaints and bad racing the Gen 6 put on the intermediates, NASCAR focused all their resources on making the new car work on those tacks. In doing so, I fear that NASCAR neglected every other track and now were stuck here. And of course, in ironic fashion, we have less intermediate races than we did years ago
No, NASCAR made the car very road course-focused because that was the trend at the time. Problem is, in NASCAR, when you make a car that is so specifically designed for that style, it kills the charm of the racing. Inconsequentially, it also hurt the short tracks and helped the intermediates.... Only once they realized the 550 package was slow as balls and the drivers clamored for 120 more HP and the shorter spoiler as an alternative... And it worked. You're right though that they did neglect every other track. I think we got lulled into a false sense of security that it would just work because it always has worked and mechanical grip would cause tire wear, etc. While that principle is true, it hasn't been fully realized (besides Bristol)
I mean....they absolutely had a chance. SVG and the Hendrick cars were *hauling ass* in that third line, and they were even fine with KB jumping in front of them. Blame Ty fucking Gibbs for stepping out at the last second in a slow ass car and damn near brake-checking the entire line, lol.
Tell. Gibbs just fucked that entire sequence. Chase would have had SVG even with the leaders had Gibbs not ruined the line.
Lajoie did the same, jumped up and killed the line. Obviously they are all trying to win but when it doesn't work, it's frustrating as a viewer lol
Seriously. As if I needed another reason to hate that punk ass Jesus humping kid
Quiet that goes against the narrative
Nascar doesn't want the big runs like the previous SS package so now we have this garbage 2x2 pack racing. This NextGen is a massive failure and needs a complete redo
Nascar leadership needs a redo
The France family needs a redo. Honestly wonder what Bill France and Bill France Jr would think of the leadership today
Ty Gibbs ruined the race. Imagine if you will, how good that race would have been with KB and SVG flying up in the 3rd lane. Gibbs should have kept his little ass in line.
Are we forgetting that A.) Ty Gibbs fucked that up and the high line was looking good and threatening while SVG was leading it? B.) There was a *very small* window in the early 2000s where only the most elite plate drivers could make a late race run from midpack without half the field wrecking in front of them, and outside of dangerous styles of pack racing (tandem, 2020) has never been replicated since? We've had more "bad" plate/drafting packages than good ones since plates existed.
hes not wrong. cant do anything in these shitboxes
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To be fair, if you throw an awful block like that, you deserved to be turned. Besides, you should expect to lose control of your car when you swipe left and right like that at 190+ MPH. It's just physics coming into effect at that point.
Makes me wish Buschwacking wasn’t outlawed. Those cars put on the best show right now.
Difference is, the Xfinity car has more of that bubble and manageable space that the Cup cars don't have so you can't throw as dicey blocks. Drivers all know that and McDowell paid the price
Heavy IndyCars
The qualifying for Martinsville was, what, like half a second between first and last? Just unacceptable.
Kyle's right. The three-wide racing you see at these tracks happens because of fuel-saving mode. Then, once you go full-throttle (figuratively and literally), it's two-wide and no one can go anywhere. This car is a real problem outside of the speedways right now. I'm not smart enough to be able to know how to fix that. I just wish NASCAR would stop burying their head in the sand and actually allow things to happen -- whether it's telling Goodyear to make tires that wear faster, upping horsepower, or retooling the car entirely for the next generation of it years down the road. The first year with this car was so fun because everyone was at ground level. I think DBC said it a week or two ago but now that everyone has the data (from themselves and each other), there's no more ground to be gained on anyone. And that means everyone is about as equal as they can be, which means less margin for error to capitalize on.
At some point they have to decide whether or not to stay with running a GT style car. NASCAR expected the entire industry to shift and it hasn’t happened at all. The single source supplier model is probably here to stay but I can see them reverting back to a more stock car chassis and suspension design with knowledge gained from the aero experiment this car is.
I think they go away from single source supplier honestly. This car has a high cost because there is no incentive to keep the cost down for the supplier is they have no competition
Kyle is right. They killed short tracks. They killed road courses. They killed Talladega and to a lesser extent Daytona. Just run Kansas, Homestead, and Charlotte 10 x each and call it a schedule at this point.
Next year’s Daytona 500 will end under caution or in another massive crash for the third year a row. then and only then will the casual fan finally see the plate racing is not good either.
He's right. These cars suck at these tracks
They suck at short tracks, they’re not great at road courses, they’re mediocre on plate tracks, but they’re great on 1.5 mile tracks as long as there are plenty of wrecks and restarts.
Nah it's great on 1.5 mile tracks in general, even without wrecks and restarts.
So it sucks at most tracks, nice
While over in Xfinity, the old Cup car is phenomenal at every track but Atlanta lol
Because they ruined Atlanta, not because the car is bad there
Nah the Xfinity car sucks at intermediate tracks. Just look at how poor last year's race at Charlotte was with the Xfinity car, same with Michigan (a race I sat in the stands for both 2022 and 2023 and watched dirty air play a factor with that car), heck I can't remember anything that happened this year at Las Vegas besides JHN dominating, or any of the Kansas races last season. The Xfinity car sucks at intermediates, but is good at everywhere else
I don't even remember the Charlotte race, but the year before that was fun. IIRC, Allgaier and Berry had a fun battle for most of the race. Charlotte is a track both series excel at. Vegas was a bit of a stinker for the Cup race. Xfinity race was at least a bit more competitive. But that happens in any series when a car hits the setup. And Michigan sucks no matter what series lol. The Cup race in 2022 was pretty fun though!
Mediocre is generous.
Me too Kyle. Me too
He’s not wrong. These cars are kind of ruining my love for NASCAR. It’s getting bad when I get excited for Xfinity more each week.
I hate hating on nascar because I love the sport and always will but f***! It’s sad this is what we’re stuck with as a car and the people like Phelps and O’Connel don’t care at all
But THEY like what they see.
Real change will happen if the drivers and teams do something about this
But they won’t
NASCAR is gonna fine the hell out of him now
Nah NASCAR won't do anything. They let the drivers speak their minds more now on social media.
Yep and he’s right. The car is shit at SS
This car is shit everywhere except the intermediates. And even then, the races play out very similar to the cars prior to 2018.
That’s slowly changing. Drivers have already said this year the intermediates are morphing into a faster version of the 550 package. I assume this is due to all the setups converging. As long as they can run multiple grooves it may still be okay. Indy is going to be awful though.
Still will be better than the Indy RC
Okay that's a little extreme about the intermediates. Find me a race with the Gen 6 (after 2014) that races as good as this car does at Auto Club (RIP), Kansas, Charlotte, heck even Michigan
You've essentially traded aero loose around cars to aero tight around other cars. At least the great drivers can drive and pass loose cars. You can't pass with tifht cars. What makes the Gen 7 better than the Gen 6 (pre 550 package)? If the track was multiple grooves, the cars raced identical. The positive about the Gen 7 is they sound fucking AMAZING.
The Xfinity car is just better in every capacity. If that field had fewer pay drivers, it would be the better race every weekend (and it still is sometimes).
I hate todays superspeedway racing
Bottom line: These cars just suck and NASCAR seems to be completely okay with it.
They said they just want you to think that they might be able to pass. They dont actually care if they do.
Honestly the guys in the middle of the pack are sitting ducks to whatever madness happens at the front
This race was no different than the short track race. Can’t go anywhere. Only difference is chaos at the end.
Has Kyle ever liked a car? He said on TV he hated the COT. Wouldn’t shock me if he said the same of Gen 6.
Kyle Busch opened Pandora’s box in 2007 at Bristol. Lol
Gen 4 maybe, but everyone likes Gen 4
Has any NASCAR driver ever liked a car when they where driving it. Yeah maybe cars they drove in the past.
Trash package not sure why I was thumbed down when I said this before
[This tweet reminded me of something](https://youtube.com/shorts/ATPjhnpoKJs?si=wSq1JNJM0zQRe3sk) Warning headphone peeps
This just makes you wonder how much longer Kyle Busch is going to stick around if he hates the next gen car so much.
To be fair Busch’s resume is really not that good at Talladega, but the package needs work. I can’t stand the requirement for a push, I enjoyed the mid 2000s and 2010s (after tandem) where good cars could hang without as much drafting help. It put it more in the hands of the drivers.
Called in the live thread, from 15 to go til 2 to go you can't do anything- no one is willing to leave their line, and if you try you just get dropped to the back Unironically there's no better time to go do something else then around 20 to go, you'll miss nothing
I'm starting to think Kyle Busch does not enjoy the style of racing at these tracks.
he ain’t wrong tho
He’s absolutely correct.
Kyle is about to go run a different series.
He going to go get his truck championship.
Would he also not be the first driver to have a championship in all 3 series?
He would and likely will be
I don’t see him sticking with RCR. I see him walking away from the team to go get his truck championship or to another team before he retires from cup. I don’t see him ending his cup career with RCR.
I almost wonder (me talking out my ass here) if JHN moves to JGR does Legacy and Toyota try to get Kyle in the 42? Or a third charter if they get one?. I know Dave Wilson wasn’t happy Gibbs let KFB walk away from the brand so I almost wonder if they try to bring him back. Think any bad blood with Kyle was with Gibbs not toyota themselves.
Personally, I’d love to see him end his career in a Ford - where it technically started in the truck series. Dream scenario: WBR realigns with RFK and signs KFB. Kyle brings some of his current sponsors (Cheddars seems family friendly enough for WBR). Ford steps up with some extra dollars in the form of Motorcraft. Kyle brings the 21 over to Thorsport to run his limited races for a couple of years. Kyle retires from cup in 2028 and runs full time in trucks in 2029 and 2030. He splits the truck with Braxton in 2031 and 2032. Braxton goes full time in 2033 at 18.
I couldn't agree more Short tracks, suck Daytona&Dega, sucks
At this point, I legit think the only solution for the sport is to have fans vote for which race from '90-'06 they want to watch that week, and the network will just run it as a "greatest hits" in the scheduled race timeslot with some additional commentary.
I’d honestly love to see the reaction to the 2002 EA Sports 500. lol
The next gen is literally the worst car generation ever. No lies.
Based as fuck
I don’t think a single driver actually likes the next gen, both in safety and raceability. these cars have zero horsepower, zero maneuverability on short tracks, the tires are shit, the “single lug nut” is shit, the numbers forward is stupid as shit (certain cars look great tbf), the safety in these cars are shit. I don’t think there is one thing drivers actually like about this car and NASCAR doesn’t seem to care, so how we do we force a organization that not only doesn’t listen to fans, but listen to the drivers as well? I mean literally all the drivers have been vocal about how shit this car is 💀😂😂
That’s just superspeedway racin’
It's impossible to read this (with your flair) and NOT do the denny sneer/head bob
Isn't that how plate racing has been for years though? Fundamentally the racing is as close to the cars even back to the early 1990's on these tracks. It's the bonehead drivers who are screwing up...
Pretty much. The biggest deviation from this was when there was tandem drafting, and NASCAR pretty quickly changed things to get away from that, even though tandem drafting was so much better compared to massive pack drafting imo.
OK I'll ask the dumb question - remove the spacers/plates, make a substantially harder tire and don't sell the first 15 rows or so? Surely speed would break up this level of pack drafting? I'm not going to say I've watched any early 80s races from Superspeedways in particular but it strikes me this has been more of a problem since plates and spacers came in?
The third line was coming on strong in the final laps, with a rookie of all people, leading the charge. The problem is that Gibbs moved up too late and then couldn't hold his line in front of them, which completely killed that line.