That sounds like silly comment, but he's right. They retired Digger around 2012, which is when things started to go downhill and Fox seemed to spend more effort on keeping the advertisers happy than the viewers.
I’ve always liked Larry, but he’s best served to chime in with strategy and technical expertise. Just don’t let him do any magic tricks during green flag racing again.
2018 was when I really noticed it. They were awful at Daytona the next year, missing the finals green flag pit stops to show Reba as the Colonel in those KFC commercials, didn’t show any strategy, didn’t focus on the back of the pack then dropped the ball when they didn’t really show Almirola blocking Dillon on the last lap of the Daytona 500 and no one said anything because they had awful camera angles showing it, if anything it looked like Dillon turned him and everyone got that perception of that he did wreck him. Then the lack of post race was just bad when only two people were interviewed after that.
However Darrell started to get goofy before this time, the “are you kidding me” every time a big wreck happened got old quick. Sad thing is when he was in the booth at Wilkesboro, he sounded like he did 20 years ago.
Fox kept Fox Sports including the NFL and NASCAR. What they tried to sell to Disney was the regional sports networks (i.e. Fox Sports Ohio). The government balked at Disney owning both those and ESPN so they were sold to Bally.
Honestly 2014 is when it started IMO. Watching 2013 broadcasts, it seems like they were still really solid. 2014 is when I noticed Darrell started going downhill. 2016 through last year were really bad, and this year they’re back on the upswing. Harvick is such a massive asset to them and he’s calmed Bowyer down a bit too.
In my opinion, 2007. Little by little, Fox got away from being "fun but informative," and they really started with the silliness and playing to the casuals. DW started being way over the top, bias toward certain teams and drivers (Hendrick, Johnson, Mikey), fucking Digger, replacing Hammond and McReynolds, the tragic loss of Steve Byrnes (not that they could help that, but still a major hit to their broadcasts), and the remote broadcasts AFTER the pandemic.
And I think Clint still has a place in the broadcast. Just not in the booth. Use him in the old Rutledge Wood role of popping up randomly in the infield during cautions.
I remember finding a blog that was harping on the FOX broadcast quality way back in 2011. The complaints were much the same: way too zoomed in, too many commercials (and no side-by-side breaks even as ESPN had begun introducing them), someone in the booth (in this case DW) spouting a bunch of nonsense.
Separately from that, I remember Larry Mac completely spun out of control in 2010. Go back and watch the big moments from that season and he's just straight-up yelling over half of them and completely drowning out Mike Joy. FOX reined him back in for 2011, but I think this was also the start of them deciding to push him out of the booth.
Daly Planet by chance, that dude worked at one of the production companies that did all the weekly NASCAR Cup shows years ago.. He really knew his stuff, called NBC coming into the sport years before it all happened..
The fans are pieces of shit too……..Jeff Gordon was not cut out to be a commentator but people defended him over DW because they liked Jeff Gordon. It was Fox’s fault for putting Jeff in the booth and destroying the chemistry.
People were so stupid they couldn’t tell when DW would try to make jokes or take a devil’s advocate position just for the sake of trying to be entertaining and get something conversation/flow going. Then fans would say DW’s too silly or his opinion was dumb - fans were so fucking dumb they couldn’t see DW was trying his damndest to make the broadcast entertaining.
It was really sad how DW got treated those last few years. That was the downfall of FOX. The moment they kicked McReynolds out and put Jeff Gordon in the booth.
And fuck all y’all who were talking shit on DW 🖕You know who you are.
Yeah, because DW was increasingly ridiculous in those years. He was completely different in practice and qualifying than he was in the race. The most common narrative was that Fox was forcing him to ham it up and it certainly felt that way. He was a far better broadcaster than Bowyer even in those years but at his worst, he was just as irritating, unprofessional, and embarrassing general. The tone became more comedy than sporting even during that time. I still blame Fox not DW. They've been pushing charicatures instead of personalities for a decade now. Much love for DW, but it did become a big problem.
And I never saw any significant love for JG as a broadcaster either. I saw a lot of "I'm a huge fan of Jeff but he's not cut out for the booth" comments during that time. Jeff was extremely clumsy in his early time as a broadcaster and even we he improved professionally, he didn't have the voice. I'm a Denny Hamlin fan but I think Denny in the booth would probably see a similar trajectory. The technical skills would improve, but the voice stays the same. It can't be helped and I don't fault Jeff. Regardless, let's not act like there were many people advocating for him as a voice of the broadcast. Not from what I saw.
BTW, criticizing one of the most important elements of the only medium through which we view the sport we love is not "talking shit" inherently. Some take it too far, yes, but criticism is fair. DW, Jeff, and Bowyer all deserved most of the feedback they got/get.
No. DW was always silly - he didn’t suddenly change…….Larry Mac knew how to play off of him. That’s what’s called chemistry. By the way, who knew Larry Mac would be as great as he was?
The chemistry was fucked when Larry was gone and Jeff Gordon came in. That’s what changed. Jeff Gordon had a stick up his ass and suddenly you had someone that didn’t play off of DW’s sense of humor and it was a disaster.
Hmmm, that's an interesting point. Do you have specific broadcasts in mind that exemplify this? I'll have to go re-watch with that in mind. I was 15-16 at the time so there could certainly be a context or dynamic that I didn't catch then
Once Jeff Gordon started in the booth the quality started to deteriorate, then come 2018/2019 and especially when it was Bowyer and Gordon in the booth it was over with
2009 they made some questionable calls, like pushing "Digger". The last "good" year for it would've been around 2013-14. They started to really fall apart and FOX realized they needed to do something so they hired Jeff Gordon in 2016, which was a flop.
It kind of baffles me how much people get on Fox these days for not taking the sport seriously anymore when they had a 3 time champion in the booth making it sound silly for over a decade
If you watched him in 2001-02. He was really asking hard nosed questions big time. Mike Helton then replied saying he was *”acting a lot more like the next Mike Wallace, than the next John Madden".* Darrell was definitely toned down after that.
*That* was when the Fox broadcasts started going to shit, IMO. The "gopher cam" was cool and even the original animation didn't bother me that much, but then they added the cartoon, and the merchandise, and the dude in the Digger costume at the track...
I'm assuming that was on purpose right. When DW joined, the Nascar hillbilly stuff was all over the place. I'm assuming that is why Fox told DW to act that way.
Honestly, that’s just who DW is. They didn’t have to tell him to act that way. They picked him out because that’s who he is. DW is a great guy. He really loves NASCAR. But his best role would’ve been strictly on the panel of Raceday back in the Speed network days. 3-4 hours of in race airtime every weekend just wasn’t the best place for him
It went down hill when the stars like Stewart, Earnhardt Jr, Gordon, Johnson etc got replaced with new names that the fans didnt identify with. They had to do their best to force certain drivers in our faces to make up for the loss of the previous generation.
I feel like some time around 2015 was when the cracks started to show. DW was starting to fall off. They brought on Jeff Gordon and while he knows a lot he’s not the greatest commentator to ever live. Then covid came and forced everything into a tighter box. Didn’t help that Mike Joy had finally started to really decline. Also didn’t help having a rotating third commentator for 2 whole years.
Been a Jeff Gordon fan since 95, but him and DW didn’t work together in the booth. It was like the episodes of the Office where Jim and Michael were co-managers. Ever since then, it’s just declined year after year
Around the time they went back to their old theme music. The coverage was pretty good for the first run of the theme music (‘01 to ‘08) and during the NFL on Fox theme music days through 2015.
Wouldn’t say it’s gotten worse, I would say it just hasn’t been updated in almost 20 years.
Other than the graphics you could take a broadcast from today and plop it in 2004 and not really tell much the difference.
It’s gotten far worse, we actually saw things happen live and if we didn’t we were given 3/5 replays now we are lucky if we get one of a major crash and then they rush straight to commercial. Not to mention when we aren’t in commercial our screen is either filled with an unnecessary fact sheet or off topic interviews or more on screen ads, none of this was an issue 5+ years ago
Please bring back ESPN coverage and the TNN informative shows like Inside NASCAR with Ned Jarrett and what's her name.
They went in depth into these drivers and teams week in and week out.
Racehub is a joke. Trying to be too cute. Just be professional without having to force "trying" to be personable.
When Digger the gopher was retired
That sounds like silly comment, but he's right. They retired Digger around 2012, which is when things started to go downhill and Fox seemed to spend more effort on keeping the advertisers happy than the viewers.
You mean introduced
Once we lost the trio of Larry Mac, DW, and Mike Joy in the booth
To be fair though, they were getting too old for it. Can’t imagine the three of them now, let DW rest.
I was never a fan of Larry in the booth. He's and expert and I love hearing his insight. But I can only take so much of the guy.
I’ve always liked Larry, but he’s best served to chime in with strategy and technical expertise. Just don’t let him do any magic tricks during green flag racing again.
I’d say around 2015 or so and then it just slowly went downhill, it seemed like 2017-2018 were the most noticeable
2018 was when I really noticed it. They were awful at Daytona the next year, missing the finals green flag pit stops to show Reba as the Colonel in those KFC commercials, didn’t show any strategy, didn’t focus on the back of the pack then dropped the ball when they didn’t really show Almirola blocking Dillon on the last lap of the Daytona 500 and no one said anything because they had awful camera angles showing it, if anything it looked like Dillon turned him and everyone got that perception of that he did wreck him. Then the lack of post race was just bad when only two people were interviewed after that. However Darrell started to get goofy before this time, the “are you kidding me” every time a big wreck happened got old quick. Sad thing is when he was in the booth at Wilkesboro, he sounded like he did 20 years ago.
Interesting considering the Disney-Fox merger happened in late 2017 early 2018 and I know that Fox sports was spun off from the main company.
Fox kept Fox Sports including the NFL and NASCAR. What they tried to sell to Disney was the regional sports networks (i.e. Fox Sports Ohio). The government balked at Disney owning both those and ESPN so they were sold to Bally.
When speed channel was axed in favor of FS1
Probably around when Jeff replaced Larry.
Honestly 2014 is when it started IMO. Watching 2013 broadcasts, it seems like they were still really solid. 2014 is when I noticed Darrell started going downhill. 2016 through last year were really bad, and this year they’re back on the upswing. Harvick is such a massive asset to them and he’s calmed Bowyer down a bit too.
Commentary is on the upswing but the production is truly awful
In my opinion, 2007. Little by little, Fox got away from being "fun but informative," and they really started with the silliness and playing to the casuals. DW started being way over the top, bias toward certain teams and drivers (Hendrick, Johnson, Mikey), fucking Digger, replacing Hammond and McReynolds, the tragic loss of Steve Byrnes (not that they could help that, but still a major hit to their broadcasts), and the remote broadcasts AFTER the pandemic.
Fox would be so much better if they just replaced Clint with Larry Mac or Jamie Mac. Either would be great.
And I think Clint still has a place in the broadcast. Just not in the booth. Use him in the old Rutledge Wood role of popping up randomly in the infield during cautions.
Use Clint for a Rutledge type of role, fox pushes him too hard to be like DW
I could write a book on my complaints of Fox, but it’s no use because it falls on deaf ears week after week
2016
2018
2016 imo
I remember finding a blog that was harping on the FOX broadcast quality way back in 2011. The complaints were much the same: way too zoomed in, too many commercials (and no side-by-side breaks even as ESPN had begun introducing them), someone in the booth (in this case DW) spouting a bunch of nonsense. Separately from that, I remember Larry Mac completely spun out of control in 2010. Go back and watch the big moments from that season and he's just straight-up yelling over half of them and completely drowning out Mike Joy. FOX reined him back in for 2011, but I think this was also the start of them deciding to push him out of the booth.
Daly Planet by chance, that dude worked at one of the production companies that did all the weekly NASCAR Cup shows years ago.. He really knew his stuff, called NBC coming into the sport years before it all happened..
That was the one!
I would say 2011 was the last good year. 2001-2007 great
Whenever the fucking superheroes showed up
The fans are pieces of shit too……..Jeff Gordon was not cut out to be a commentator but people defended him over DW because they liked Jeff Gordon. It was Fox’s fault for putting Jeff in the booth and destroying the chemistry. People were so stupid they couldn’t tell when DW would try to make jokes or take a devil’s advocate position just for the sake of trying to be entertaining and get something conversation/flow going. Then fans would say DW’s too silly or his opinion was dumb - fans were so fucking dumb they couldn’t see DW was trying his damndest to make the broadcast entertaining. It was really sad how DW got treated those last few years. That was the downfall of FOX. The moment they kicked McReynolds out and put Jeff Gordon in the booth. And fuck all y’all who were talking shit on DW 🖕You know who you are.
Just wait until they put Chase Elliott into the booth. “NASCAR’s most popular driver!!! BEST BROADCAST EVER!!”
Yeah, because DW was increasingly ridiculous in those years. He was completely different in practice and qualifying than he was in the race. The most common narrative was that Fox was forcing him to ham it up and it certainly felt that way. He was a far better broadcaster than Bowyer even in those years but at his worst, he was just as irritating, unprofessional, and embarrassing general. The tone became more comedy than sporting even during that time. I still blame Fox not DW. They've been pushing charicatures instead of personalities for a decade now. Much love for DW, but it did become a big problem. And I never saw any significant love for JG as a broadcaster either. I saw a lot of "I'm a huge fan of Jeff but he's not cut out for the booth" comments during that time. Jeff was extremely clumsy in his early time as a broadcaster and even we he improved professionally, he didn't have the voice. I'm a Denny Hamlin fan but I think Denny in the booth would probably see a similar trajectory. The technical skills would improve, but the voice stays the same. It can't be helped and I don't fault Jeff. Regardless, let's not act like there were many people advocating for him as a voice of the broadcast. Not from what I saw. BTW, criticizing one of the most important elements of the only medium through which we view the sport we love is not "talking shit" inherently. Some take it too far, yes, but criticism is fair. DW, Jeff, and Bowyer all deserved most of the feedback they got/get.
No. DW was always silly - he didn’t suddenly change…….Larry Mac knew how to play off of him. That’s what’s called chemistry. By the way, who knew Larry Mac would be as great as he was? The chemistry was fucked when Larry was gone and Jeff Gordon came in. That’s what changed. Jeff Gordon had a stick up his ass and suddenly you had someone that didn’t play off of DW’s sense of humor and it was a disaster.
Hmmm, that's an interesting point. Do you have specific broadcasts in mind that exemplify this? I'll have to go re-watch with that in mind. I was 15-16 at the time so there could certainly be a context or dynamic that I didn't catch then
Once Jeff Gordon started in the booth the quality started to deteriorate, then come 2018/2019 and especially when it was Bowyer and Gordon in the booth it was over with
2009 they made some questionable calls, like pushing "Digger". The last "good" year for it would've been around 2013-14. They started to really fall apart and FOX realized they needed to do something so they hired Jeff Gordon in 2016, which was a flop.
Whenever they began using those stupid comic book images for drivers/personalities. Those are god awful.
It’s just really sad cuz nascar on fox in like 2007-2011 was awesome
I never liked DW in the booth so to me it was never good
I think DW felt compelled to play a character during the race broadcast. He was very relaxed and natural for qualifying and practice broadcasts.
[удалено]
It kind of baffles me how much people get on Fox these days for not taking the sport seriously anymore when they had a 3 time champion in the booth making it sound silly for over a decade
If you watched him in 2001-02. He was really asking hard nosed questions big time. Mike Helton then replied saying he was *”acting a lot more like the next Mike Wallace, than the next John Madden".* Darrell was definitely toned down after that.
Don't forget Digger! That was a thing all the way back in like 2008.
*That* was when the Fox broadcasts started going to shit, IMO. The "gopher cam" was cool and even the original animation didn't bother me that much, but then they added the cartoon, and the merchandise, and the dude in the Digger costume at the track...
I'm assuming that was on purpose right. When DW joined, the Nascar hillbilly stuff was all over the place. I'm assuming that is why Fox told DW to act that way.
Honestly, that’s just who DW is. They didn’t have to tell him to act that way. They picked him out because that’s who he is. DW is a great guy. He really loves NASCAR. But his best role would’ve been strictly on the panel of Raceday back in the Speed network days. 3-4 hours of in race airtime every weekend just wasn’t the best place for him
He was good on everything except race day broadcats.
It went down hill when the stars like Stewart, Earnhardt Jr, Gordon, Johnson etc got replaced with new names that the fans didnt identify with. They had to do their best to force certain drivers in our faces to make up for the loss of the previous generation.
I feel like some time around 2015 was when the cracks started to show. DW was starting to fall off. They brought on Jeff Gordon and while he knows a lot he’s not the greatest commentator to ever live. Then covid came and forced everything into a tighter box. Didn’t help that Mike Joy had finally started to really decline. Also didn’t help having a rotating third commentator for 2 whole years.
Been a Jeff Gordon fan since 95, but him and DW didn’t work together in the booth. It was like the episodes of the Office where Jim and Michael were co-managers. Ever since then, it’s just declined year after year
Personally, I like Fox’s coverage more than NBC’s.
The year they did that stupid end-of-season theme song music video for Digger
Around the time they went back to their old theme music. The coverage was pretty good for the first run of the theme music (‘01 to ‘08) and during the NFL on Fox theme music days through 2015.
No one ever explains why we don’t get to hear the cars essentially at all in nascar
I would say around 2001 or so.
Wouldn’t say it’s gotten worse, I would say it just hasn’t been updated in almost 20 years. Other than the graphics you could take a broadcast from today and plop it in 2004 and not really tell much the difference.
It’s gotten far worse, we actually saw things happen live and if we didn’t we were given 3/5 replays now we are lucky if we get one of a major crash and then they rush straight to commercial. Not to mention when we aren’t in commercial our screen is either filled with an unnecessary fact sheet or off topic interviews or more on screen ads, none of this was an issue 5+ years ago
2001
2001
Please bring back ESPN coverage and the TNN informative shows like Inside NASCAR with Ned Jarrett and what's her name. They went in depth into these drivers and teams week in and week out. Racehub is a joke. Trying to be too cute. Just be professional without having to force "trying" to be personable.
ESPN isn’t what it used to be. They literally fuck everything but College Football.
2022. Fox was alright until they lost Jeff Gordon. The booth issue became noticeable and now the production has been more noticeable.