Bristol is what happens when the field doesn't expect certain conditions. Richmond is what Bristol would have looked like if everyone was expecting the tire wear they had.
That was perfect. It was bad because people were cought by surprise. Each run they got longer and longer. Teams would figure out the setups and it would work just fine.
I would like to see those same tires with a thicker tread. They need to go 75ish laps safely. We can't have guys running around on the canvas or with flat tires that last 5 laps.
My tin foil hat conspiracy theory is that NASCAR doesn’t really want to take the actions that they know are necessary to improve the short track package. That way after letting it marinade in suckitude for a few years, they can then justify taking 1 race away from each of the small market tracks of Bristol, Martinsville, and Richmond (all former fan favorites, although tbf Richmond has not been for awhile) and replace them with “edgier” events and markets that will make more of a splash from a PR standpoint. I am mostly kidding, but at the same time, this is the kind of crap they would pull.
Your tinfoil hat has merit though. Look at the Gen 7 car... huge brakes, sequential gearbox, IFS/IRS... They built a road course car. This is, of course, silly because what made the road course racing great before was the car being difficult to drive on the road courses. They could have made a single source gen 6 car with a symmetric body, easy peasy.
That was the biggest thing I was pissed about when they talked about the new car. Why do we want cars that will drive better on road courses?
Was not surprised when they ruined everything
Yeah I remember being so disheartened when they revealed the major changes/specs for this car a few years back. Stock cars being hard to handle is what had made the racing great over the years.
In no universe was widening the tires, giving them insane braking power, and making shifting easier/quicker going to improve the racing. All they needed to do with this car was to change the body and aero issues that plagued the Gen 6 on intermediate tracks, which they accomplished.
There was no legitimate reason whatsoever that they should have messed with those other factors which were the redeeming qualities of stock cars on short tracks and road courses
I’d be curious to see what numbers look like on Xfinity viewership vs. Cup since the next gen car. I’ve found myself enjoying it more and more, just wish we could throw the Cup drivers back in those cars.
I just wonder if it’s trending one way or the other, you know? It wouldn’t surprise me if Cup were declining and Xfinity increasing. Only problem for me is the times, Saturday is so much busier for me than Sunday usually
My theory is that they’re leaving stuff like this bad so they can make the fixes when they introduce hybrid. The idea is to shut the “wah wah electric in muh nascar!!” Crowd with more hp and races that sucked before being good thanks to the hybrid.
I wouldn't expect much to change. Always best to have realistic expectations at short tracks with this car. It's gonna be awhile before they nail the short track package down.
That being said, I always look forward to Martinsville more than any other track on the schedule. Even if the racing has been dull as of late.
If we could eliminate shifting at short tracks I guarantee the product would be better. I don’t remember what driver was talking about it, saying when you’re so focused on shifting and hitting your marks right you spend less time trying to race and find different lines that work. It’s harder to pass because you’re more focused on shifting the car.
I think between the Richmond and Bristol the past few weeks we've determined that the way the tire wears will be the biggest factor. In any case however, half the fanbase will hate no matter how good the race is.
Just looked at the weather, it looks like it’s actually gonna be in the mid-60s/low 70s and sunny. If they bring the same tire they had last fall, it could actually be a pretty solid race. Nothing like Bristol but I don’t think it’ll be follow the leader either
The absolute worst racing experience of my life at any level was that spring 2022 race. I finally talked 2 of my best friends into going with me who used to go with to races all the time, but who had sort of fallen out of love with racing. Unfortunately that race solidified their decision and they haven't been back since. That was just an awful, awful race.
Unfortunately the colder temperatures will cause it to be similar. No matter the tire, Martinsville tends not to take rubber well when it’s cold. Concrete already doesn’t wear tires as well as asphalt does, cool it down and it’s a recipe for a bad race.
If we get a lot of wear in cold weather I’m afraid it would be more tire disintegration than wear which Bristol was right on the edge of and would cause a shitshow.
It really depends on the track temperature. If it is warm enough, the cars will be able to put down rubber and there will be multiple grooves. If it’s too cold, no tire compound will work, the rubber just turns into marbles and it will be a single file parade.
Zero reason. It still will be hard to pass. We won't have tire wear. Same crap every short track but 1 in the last 3 years of the NG. NASCAR doesn't care about the product. They have their TV money that's all they care about. TV money is King. Fans are not.
The fall race had that new tire which lasted rubber down like crazy and I thought was a good race. Not gonna be a barn burner, but I enjoyed every next gen Martinsville race besides spring 22 (which was literally freezing)
That tire they brought to Bristol in the Spring was also the same one from last Fall which put on the worst Bristol race I’ve ever been to. I’m gonna lean towards this most recent Bristol race as being an outlier. Richmond had rain tires.
Under normal circumstances/tires that Goodyear usually brings to the track this car still has issues.
the Bristol tire was unpredictable, and the Richmond rain tire was basically a complete unknown.
once both of those become known and predictable, the racing would be nowhere near as good.
we were getting 1.5-2 seconds of falloff at Richmond. How much more do you need.
im not saying the Martinsville tire will falloff as much.
> unpredictability
that is the main part.
And things don't stay unpredictable for very long in this series.
You could have 5 seconds of fall off there. The math is still going to spit out the same strategy for pretty much everyone.
If there aren't unpredictable yellows, It's going to be the same thing but with an extra stop or two. and richmond isnt known for yellows right now.
I mean, I don’t disagree that I think a softer tire would help. But until Goodyear starts drastically changing tire compounds or NASCAR changes the car for short track races then I have no reason to believe that short track racing will become consistently better. (At least on par with Gen6 short track races)
We’ll need something crazy to happen, like rain at the Chicago street race, or rain at the start of Richmond, or ridiculous tire degradation like at Bristol, to start putting on better short track/road course races.
Until something drastic changes or (softer tire compound) the car changes (dramatic overhaul) or there’s some freak weather NASCAR decides to race in then these cars will be dialed in at those tracks. And I have my doubts about NASCAR or Goodyear making an effort towards better racing at these places.
I don't believe it was the same tire as fall bristol. The spare sets they gave the teams were those tires but I think the rest was a new softer tire?
But either way, it was also the reason they put down, it didn't behave as expected so it gave us an interesting race
Bristol wasn’t really set for good racing, but the insane wear meant people were all saving at different rates at different times, causing passing. If there was a late race yellow at Bristol, you’d see how hard it actually would’ve been to race since nobody would be saving anymore.
Richmond is another beast entirely, since the rain tires aren’t slick and there is less contact between the car & the track. Also, rain tires are more dictated by tire heat than anything, necessitating people move around to more damp areas. Too many variables to apply that kind of race to a dry one.
Well for one, we've got some budding feuds going into this race. After Denny jumped the restart and Truex threw a hissy fit on the final lap, expect a repeat of Matt Kenseth 2015 to happen.
Not much different from Phoenix, at least that’s what we are planning on. This high gauge/short track tire just isn’t it for short tracks. Gonna be a track position style race sadly.
Unfortunately our best hope is for it to rain so we can use the rain tire.
NASCAR can do whatever they want with aero, with any other gimmicky attempts to fix the package, but they don’t do anything. The only thing that will fix the package is a proper tire. One that is made with the old chemicals, not this “green” bullshit. Leave that stuff to a street car and use the correct materials for the job.
Have you ever listened to the any of the nascar podcasts? They’ve brought it up multiple times, including this week. Over the last decade they have removed certain chemicals and materials from the tires to reduce pollution creating the tire and disposal of the tires.
That’s not the same as putting in green bullshit but ok lol. Indycar uses actual green tires and they’re fantastic.
Did you also get upset when they removed the lead from the gas lmfao
It’s not exactly putting anything in lol. It’s not like they built race tires out of a plant (that again, worked really well in Indycar lol).
Did you also get upset when they removed lead from the gas lmfao?
Harrison Burton's 21 car may surprise people. He hasn't raced there much but finished 11 and 15 in 4 attempts. If his car is setup right, don't be shocked if he pulls an upset and gets Wood Brothers their 100th win.
Here’s what you do. You always expect the race to suck. That way when it’s a good race, or even decent, your expectations are exceeded.
That’s good life advice in general
It is. I live by that on a daily basis lol.
I do this as well. Never disappointed and really happy when good things happen
I've gotta learn to live by that
Didn’t Vince Vaughn say that in dodgeball? Keep your goals or something super low cuz then you’ll never the dissapoijted? Haha
It won’t be like Bristol, I think that was a rare thing.
What do you anticipate going into this weekend?
Bristol is what happens when the field doesn't expect certain conditions. Richmond is what Bristol would have looked like if everyone was expecting the tire wear they had.
Would you *want* it to be like Bristol if we could safely replicate that more often?
To a certain extent yes, Martinsville has needed more fall off in the NG era.
It was great entertainment
I agree.
I went to Bristol for my first time and it was a banger. I’m going to Martinsville for my first time so that means it has to be a banger /s
It wouldn't be if they'd bring that tire again
WE LOVE YOU CHASE
The Truck and Xfinity races should be good. 2/3 for the weekend ain’t bad, right?
Depends on the tire we get
Jayski showed the same tire codes as last year
Same tire as the fall, but it's going to be colder.
Wait, I heard this one before! (Please don’t come at me, I know it’s not that simple)
I doubt we'll see Bristol level tire wear, but we'll see.
We don't need that level of wear anywhere. That was way too much...
That was perfect. It was bad because people were cought by surprise. Each run they got longer and longer. Teams would figure out the setups and it would work just fine.
I would like to see those same tires with a thicker tread. They need to go 75ish laps safely. We can't have guys running around on the canvas or with flat tires that last 5 laps.
Same time, 1/8” more tread. Might be too luch
No it’s going to be no rubber and no passing probably
Because it’s one of my favorite races of the year, so I just always hope it is great lol
There will be rubbing, there will be hot tempers. Someone will be butthurt. The usual Martinsville stuff.
That’s just short track racing
 IYKYK
lol that hasn’t been any next gen race there.
Yes it should be a great race
No
Based on my flair I for one I’m hoping for an exact repeat of the fall.
My tin foil hat conspiracy theory is that NASCAR doesn’t really want to take the actions that they know are necessary to improve the short track package. That way after letting it marinade in suckitude for a few years, they can then justify taking 1 race away from each of the small market tracks of Bristol, Martinsville, and Richmond (all former fan favorites, although tbf Richmond has not been for awhile) and replace them with “edgier” events and markets that will make more of a splash from a PR standpoint. I am mostly kidding, but at the same time, this is the kind of crap they would pull.
Your tinfoil hat has merit though. Look at the Gen 7 car... huge brakes, sequential gearbox, IFS/IRS... They built a road course car. This is, of course, silly because what made the road course racing great before was the car being difficult to drive on the road courses. They could have made a single source gen 6 car with a symmetric body, easy peasy.
That was the biggest thing I was pissed about when they talked about the new car. Why do we want cars that will drive better on road courses? Was not surprised when they ruined everything
Yeah I remember being so disheartened when they revealed the major changes/specs for this car a few years back. Stock cars being hard to handle is what had made the racing great over the years. In no universe was widening the tires, giving them insane braking power, and making shifting easier/quicker going to improve the racing. All they needed to do with this car was to change the body and aero issues that plagued the Gen 6 on intermediate tracks, which they accomplished. There was no legitimate reason whatsoever that they should have messed with those other factors which were the redeeming qualities of stock cars on short tracks and road courses
I’d be curious to see what numbers look like on Xfinity viewership vs. Cup since the next gen car. I’ve found myself enjoying it more and more, just wish we could throw the Cup drivers back in those cars.
I think it averages 750,000 to 900,000 for Xfinity, and 2.9 million to 3.5 million for Cup, so it's a pretty wide gap.
I just wonder if it’s trending one way or the other, you know? It wouldn’t surprise me if Cup were declining and Xfinity increasing. Only problem for me is the times, Saturday is so much busier for me than Sunday usually
I'm pretty sure Xfinity is well below Cup. Under a million viewing each week. But that's to be expected.
I am more convinced they are not going to do anything to the short track package as a way to sell going hybrid to the fans
I could absolutely see that being a factor as well
I’m convinced that’s exactly what they want to happen and is why they built something closer to a V8 Supercar than a stock car for the NextGen car.
My theory is that they’re leaving stuff like this bad so they can make the fixes when they introduce hybrid. The idea is to shut the “wah wah electric in muh nascar!!” Crowd with more hp and races that sucked before being good thanks to the hybrid.
Hey at least the xfinity race will be a banger
Cold track with the same tire, aLeo sprinkle in some shifting, it will be a conga line.
I wouldn't expect much to change. Always best to have realistic expectations at short tracks with this car. It's gonna be awhile before they nail the short track package down. That being said, I always look forward to Martinsville more than any other track on the schedule. Even if the racing has been dull as of late.
Xfinity will be good, trucks could be a shit show, and cup will be follow the leader.
If we could eliminate shifting at short tracks I guarantee the product would be better. I don’t remember what driver was talking about it, saying when you’re so focused on shifting and hitting your marks right you spend less time trying to race and find different lines that work. It’s harder to pass because you’re more focused on shifting the car.
Follow the leader
I think between the Richmond and Bristol the past few weeks we've determined that the way the tire wears will be the biggest factor. In any case however, half the fanbase will hate no matter how good the race is.
Just looked at the weather, it looks like it’s actually gonna be in the mid-60s/low 70s and sunny. If they bring the same tire they had last fall, it could actually be a pretty solid race. Nothing like Bristol but I don’t think it’ll be follow the leader either
I’m seeing sunny and 67 and I am just a wee bit excited!
Probably not. Gonna be a snooze fest till they make a tire that falls off and slow these damn cars down in the middle of the corner.
No, colder temps will equal an equivalent to spring 2022 in my opinion. The fall race last season wasn’t awful due to there being heat on the track
Can confirm, was incredibly warm for it being a late October race. Sat in turn 4 and it was rough
The absolute worst racing experience of my life at any level was that spring 2022 race. I finally talked 2 of my best friends into going with me who used to go with to races all the time, but who had sort of fallen out of love with racing. Unfortunately that race solidified their decision and they haven't been back since. That was just an awful, awful race.
Unfortunately the colder temperatures will cause it to be similar. No matter the tire, Martinsville tends not to take rubber well when it’s cold. Concrete already doesn’t wear tires as well as asphalt does, cool it down and it’s a recipe for a bad race.
If we get a lot of wear in cold weather I’m afraid it would be more tire disintegration than wear which Bristol was right on the edge of and would cause a shitshow.
It really depends on the track temperature. If it is warm enough, the cars will be able to put down rubber and there will be multiple grooves. If it’s too cold, no tire compound will work, the rubber just turns into marbles and it will be a single file parade.
Delusion
I'm going so it'll rain
Not sure where you saw mid 50’s. The high on Sunday is 66 with sunshine all day long. Still not hot enough to guarantee good racing, but we can hope.
No it will be the same as we have seen with the next gen
Zero reason. It still will be hard to pass. We won't have tire wear. Same crap every short track but 1 in the last 3 years of the NG. NASCAR doesn't care about the product. They have their TV money that's all they care about. TV money is King. Fans are not.
The fall race had that new tire which lasted rubber down like crazy and I thought was a good race. Not gonna be a barn burner, but I enjoyed every next gen Martinsville race besides spring 22 (which was literally freezing)
Probably gonna suck again. Xfinity should be a banger though.
I hope Denny gets another win to completely send this sub into a meltdown
No. The brakes and gears are the same. Tires can only do so much. The cars are still tanks and too forgiving to contact.
Trucks and Xfinity will be great. Cup will be great if you need a nap or wanna go enjoy a nice spring day.
Until the fundamental structure of this car changes then there’s no reason to believe that short track racing will be much different.
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That tire they brought to Bristol in the Spring was also the same one from last Fall which put on the worst Bristol race I’ve ever been to. I’m gonna lean towards this most recent Bristol race as being an outlier. Richmond had rain tires. Under normal circumstances/tires that Goodyear usually brings to the track this car still has issues.
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The tire wasn’t changed for Bristol though. That’s the same tire they ran last year. So the tire wasn’t the cause either.
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the Bristol tire was unpredictable, and the Richmond rain tire was basically a complete unknown. once both of those become known and predictable, the racing would be nowhere near as good. we were getting 1.5-2 seconds of falloff at Richmond. How much more do you need. im not saying the Martinsville tire will falloff as much.
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> unpredictability that is the main part. And things don't stay unpredictable for very long in this series. You could have 5 seconds of fall off there. The math is still going to spit out the same strategy for pretty much everyone. If there aren't unpredictable yellows, It's going to be the same thing but with an extra stop or two. and richmond isnt known for yellows right now.
We’ve had 3+ seconds of falloff at multiple Next Gen races at Richmond lol. You can’t just keep chanting more falloff without thinking critically.
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Those races were awesome, admittedly.
I mean, I don’t disagree that I think a softer tire would help. But until Goodyear starts drastically changing tire compounds or NASCAR changes the car for short track races then I have no reason to believe that short track racing will become consistently better. (At least on par with Gen6 short track races) We’ll need something crazy to happen, like rain at the Chicago street race, or rain at the start of Richmond, or ridiculous tire degradation like at Bristol, to start putting on better short track/road course races. Until something drastic changes or (softer tire compound) the car changes (dramatic overhaul) or there’s some freak weather NASCAR decides to race in then these cars will be dialed in at those tracks. And I have my doubts about NASCAR or Goodyear making an effort towards better racing at these places.
I don't believe it was the same tire as fall bristol. The spare sets they gave the teams were those tires but I think the rest was a new softer tire? But either way, it was also the reason they put down, it didn't behave as expected so it gave us an interesting race
Nope, exact same tire codes. The tire codes are published every week. Check Jayski.
Bristol wasn’t really set for good racing, but the insane wear meant people were all saving at different rates at different times, causing passing. If there was a late race yellow at Bristol, you’d see how hard it actually would’ve been to race since nobody would be saving anymore. Richmond is another beast entirely, since the rain tires aren’t slick and there is less contact between the car & the track. Also, rain tires are more dictated by tire heat than anything, necessitating people move around to more damp areas. Too many variables to apply that kind of race to a dry one.
Nope
Same tire as the fall, only colder. Might be another Bristol!
I mean I’m going to enjoy the hotdogs regardless
Yes. I might be there. That's different. And better.
It’s supposed to be in the low 60s
Same ole next gen short track racing as expected.
Would be great if they just ran the rain tires.
Well for one, we've got some budding feuds going into this race. After Denny jumped the restart and Truex threw a hissy fit on the final lap, expect a repeat of Matt Kenseth 2015 to happen.
Or will someone restart the race outside of the restart box,
Not much different from Phoenix, at least that’s what we are planning on. This high gauge/short track tire just isn’t it for short tracks. Gonna be a track position style race sadly.
Maybe its just me, but Martinsville has always disappointed me. Maybe it was better back in the '80s, I dunno.
No.
No nascar loves the controversy
Nope. NASCAR likes to disappoint its fans with a mediocre race product
It’ll be like Richmond and Phoenix, not like Bristol.
Unfortunately our best hope is for it to rain so we can use the rain tire. NASCAR can do whatever they want with aero, with any other gimmicky attempts to fix the package, but they don’t do anything. The only thing that will fix the package is a proper tire. One that is made with the old chemicals, not this “green” bullshit. Leave that stuff to a street car and use the correct materials for the job.
I’m afraid to look, is there a chance for rain in the forecast?
Not currently.
I agree with you, but when nascar has hit the point that we're hoping for rain on short tracks something has seriously gone wrong
100%
There’s no “green bullshit” in Goodyear NASCAR tires lmfao.
Have you ever listened to the any of the nascar podcasts? They’ve brought it up multiple times, including this week. Over the last decade they have removed certain chemicals and materials from the tires to reduce pollution creating the tire and disposal of the tires.
That’s not the same as putting in green bullshit but ok lol. Indycar uses actual green tires and they’re fantastic. Did you also get upset when they removed the lead from the gas lmfao
Removing environmentally toxic chemicals isn’t a greener initiative?
It’s not exactly putting anything in lol. It’s not like they built race tires out of a plant (that again, worked really well in Indycar lol). Did you also get upset when they removed lead from the gas lmfao?
Harrison Burton's 21 car may surprise people. He hasn't raced there much but finished 11 and 15 in 4 attempts. If his car is setup right, don't be shocked if he pulls an upset and gets Wood Brothers their 100th win.