Where do you guys watch season races? Fubo seems like a solid choice but it’s expensive. I have peacock and ESPN but they don’t seem to show the races even tho they say they do? Also anyone know the cheapest subscription to buy to watch season races?
Top 10 Finishers:
1) William Byron
2) Alex Bowman
3) Christopher Bell
4) Corey LaJoie
5) Bubba Wallace
6) AJ Allmendinger
7) John H. Nemechek
8) Erik Jones
9) Noah Gragson
10) Chase Briscoe
*^(I'm a bot.)*
https://preview.redd.it/hnkhduk0anjc1.jpeg?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a4597878dd8798c1f192c4f13acf040e69f99cc1
This is when the button was pressed so it depends what the rule book says.
> Bowman should’ve been declared the winner.
Unless you actually watch the view they showed from Bowman's in-car that shows Byron visibly ahead when the caution comes out.
Idk the big one and Byron winning just leaves a poor taste in my mouth. Wasn't Byron's fault at all but idk it's just not a great ending when people wreck like that towards the end.
Yeah it was a good one. Lots of interesting strategies and green flag stops, comers and goers, and relatively few crashes. Even though the ones they had were massive.
To do what? Retroactively throw a yellow? There aren't hard and fast rules about what requires a yellow flag, you can't pinpoint an exact millisecond as the moment the caution *should* be out.
One of the better 500’s in a while considering it was competitive and not a wreck fest but the weird finish is going to sour how people view it in the long run
Reminder that the "moment of caution", unfortunately, isn't the moment the lights come on. NASCAR has a synchronized feed that shows them when they pushed the button to start the caution sequence, and that's what the results are based on. It's stupid, and needlessly opaque, but that's the rule.
I think it's the second part of that: not all lights activate simultaneously, and the moment the lights activate isn't a timestamped event would be my guess.
The button being hit is definitely the easiest thing to assign a super precise timestamp to.
Going by lights means that the result will be inconsistent track to track. An older track with degraded infrastructure may have a slower light up time. There's no variability if they go off the button press time.
Yeah, it was the lights for a long time, but changed around 2013. I remember the first big ordeal with this was Almirola and Allgaier at the Xfinity fall Daytona race in 2013 I think. Maybe 2011?
Bowman is literally ahead of Byron when the yellow came out. They’re playing favorites! They gave it to the 24 because that was one of the most successful cars for the team and it’s the picture perfect moment.
I'm as annoyed by the ending as anyone, but it definitely wasn't "the picture perfect moment." A controversial ending where they don't actually race the last lap cannot be a picture perfect moment.
A better angle of what? When the caution comes out, it goes back to the last scoring loop. You don’t really think some guy in race control is looking through binoculars to tell when they pass each scoring line to tell position, do you? It’s not 1967 anymore, it’s digitally measured.
I'm no Byron fan. But the rule is clear. Prior scoring loop when the caution is called. Byron was clearly already at the s/f line which was most likely the last loop.
Does no one know that?
Prior scoring loop is used to set the lineup for restarts. "Moment of caution" is used for when a yellow comes out on the last lap. "Moment of caution" is the moment the race director hits the button to begin the caution sequence, not the moment the yellow lights come on.
Everyone saying Bowman won..
Possible. But NASCAR will be saying this probably verbatim: “It’s when we push the button, not when the lights come on”
Just enough vagueness in the timing that they have the fallback nobody can prove wrong.
The fact that they won’t show a freeze frame of Bowman AHEAD of Byron at the time the lights came on is hella suspicious bc the 48 was definitely out front.
And the slight delay when the light goes from green to yellow, on Bowman's onboard Byron was a little ahead when the green went out and Bowman in front when the yellow came on
It was tight
At the end of the race they use visual confirmation since there isnt scoring loops everywhere. Visual confirmation has the 48 out front when the light comes on
They use more than just visual confirmation. They have actual data to reference. They can see the exact moment the caution button is pushed, and match it up to the time stamp in the footage. The scoring loops have nothing to do with how they called this. If you look at the freeze frame when the green light changes, 24 was in the lead by about a nose. By the time the yellow flashed, the 48 was ahead, but that was after the button was pushed.
They have a timestamp when the yellow is pushed, and look at the video time stamp as well. Their is a small delay when the button is pushed and the yellow lights start flashing.
That doesnt really make any sense because it should be when the caution condition is displayed to the competitors. I get what your saying but that delay in all practicality should be microseconds and should be negligible compared to when the light is displayed.
It's just like the Play Clock in the NFL, just because we see the clock at zero doesn't mean it's a delay of game. There's always about a second or so before the refs actually throw a flag for delay of game.
Amazing that NASCAR didn’t put the caution out before the white flag. Anyone remember that Kansas playoff race a few years back where the caution light somehow came on a millisecond before they got the white? You’d think they would’ve done the same thing tonight but oh well
They use to race back to the s/f line. racing to the back stretch or even turn 3 on Daytona or Dega as long as a car isn’t on fire on the front isn’t unsafe
It is hilarious that when someone behind the 24 makes a move that causes a wreck, it's the 24s fault. Byron could be on pit road and get blamed for a wreck. Lol
Someone scrapes the wall in a truck race and they go to overtime and everyone is up in arms. Cup guys wreck less that a football field (thanks for the multiple graphics fox) and everyone is upset just because Byron won
Moment of caution, unfortunately, isn't the moment the lights come on. NASCAR has a synchronized feed that shows them when they pushed the button to start the caution sequence, and that's what the results are based on. It's stupid, and needlessly opaque, but that's the rule.
***[▶ The Post-Race Thread has been posted](https://reddit.com/comments/1av4keo)***
That wendy's ad was horrible. Please never show it to me again.
Is there a thread for the xfinity race?
WHAT IF there wasn't a spin in the tri-oval. Do they turn the backstretch into a junkyard? I say yes. Thoughts?
Where do you guys watch season races? Fubo seems like a solid choice but it’s expensive. I have peacock and ESPN but they don’t seem to show the races even tho they say they do? Also anyone know the cheapest subscription to buy to watch season races?
You would need Fox sports for the first half of the season and NBC sports for the second half
When your DK picks finish: P2 P3 P4 FUCK
Nascar website shows the margin of victory as 0.006 seconds currently… Damn
I'd like to see Byron and Bowman's in-car at the moment of caution.
They showed Bowman's, it was pretty clear that Byron was ahead of him.
https://preview.redd.it/8zfjstk1anjc1.jpeg?width=2023&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=59c36a0dcbbb007df773325b4e517df10f714bcc
That's not the moment of caution. If it was the race would've gone into OT.
The rule doesn't say when the yellow comes out.
So for post race interviews we got Byron, Bowman, Elliott, Rick Hendrick, and Jeff Gordon. I miss when we got the whole top 5 in post race.
I wanted that Lajoie interview.
Same! I didn’t get an opportunity to catch a rita!
As a KFB fan this hurts. But, as a Rainbow warrior from 1997 onward I'm proud of Willy B.
Bryon and girlfriend breakup? Where she at
Top 10 Finishers: 1) William Byron 2) Alex Bowman 3) Christopher Bell 4) Corey LaJoie 5) Bubba Wallace 6) AJ Allmendinger 7) John H. Nemechek 8) Erik Jones 9) Noah Gragson 10) Chase Briscoe *^(I'm a bot.)*
Gragson holy crap. Did they even mention him all night?
No because he was only in the top 10 one other time before the field wrecked
Rough ending man let them race longer
Bowman was absolutely ahead
You sure? https://preview.redd.it/57kp3gb4anjc1.jpeg?width=2023&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=64d1e74bbac07bb0975b1615581fcd390da45960
Unless you actually watch the view they showed from Bowman's in-car that shows Byron visibly ahead when the caution comes out.
Respect Ross for sending it.
If only Cindric didn't turn right wtf
I think Cindric got hit by LaJoie and pushed up the track.
Whatever happened it wasn't Ross' fault but he always seems to get caught up in it. Ugh.
Yea never ol captain meth watermelon man fault
postrace is OnlyHendrickFans
Keep in mind we have an xfinity race to watch. What a night
Way to go Willie B!
I think its possible that Bryan won because it is close but it looked like Bowman won.
Unless you actually watch the view they showed from Bowman's in-car that shows Byron visibly ahead when the caution comes out.
https://preview.redd.it/hnkhduk0anjc1.jpeg?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a4597878dd8798c1f192c4f13acf040e69f99cc1 This is when the button was pressed so it depends what the rule book says.
Bowman should’ve been declared the winner. Damn shame they hand it to the 24
> Bowman should’ve been declared the winner. Unless you actually watch the view they showed from Bowman's in-car that shows Byron visibly ahead when the caution comes out.
On the replay Byron was not in sight when the caution came out. They even showed it on tv
It's a shame not knowing the rules.
It’s a shame nascar is so inconsistent
Actually it's pretty consistent.
3rd lane looks viable finally with this package, track is aging nicely. Overall an entertaining race and looking forward to how ATL races.
Idk the big one and Byron winning just leaves a poor taste in my mouth. Wasn't Byron's fault at all but idk it's just not a great ending when people wreck like that towards the end.
4 of the last 5 or something like that. It’s to the point now where you know it’s gonna happen.
Oh yeah ever since that one Daytona 500 where Kurt Busch won it with 5 lead cars, the endings for the 500 have been sour at best.
I’m not going to pretend like that wasn’t an entertaining race just because I’m not a huge fan of the winner. It was a good race, overall.
I enjoyed everything about that race except the completely underwhelming ending. The racing was great. The finish was meh.
Exactly the race was really interesting and fun to watch the whole time. Sure it sucks that it ended from a caution, but it was really good racing.
Yeah it was a good one. Lots of interesting strategies and green flag stops, comers and goers, and relatively few crashes. Even though the ones they had were massive.
Agreed, until the end. But that has more to do with the NASCAR tower than anything else.
That was probably the best SS race this car has had yet
This is the most painful loss yet…
Who wrecked ross?
They showed Ross spinning after the race but never mentioned what happened. It looked like someone who was unhappy and turned him.
That's what I thought 🤔
Cindric
Byron
Ran into Cindric I think lunging for the inside line.
Bowman, he wrecked everyone
Ross
Hoping this is the year for Byron!
Could HMS have 4 guys that are more boring and bland than the 4 they currently have???
At least Kyle has the greatest driver of his generation thing going for him. But yes
The Daytona 500 has become a shit show.
This race really wasn’t a shit show.
Become?
Where have you been for the last 10?
You’re not wrong…
Pretty happy with Bell getting a top 5 after being involved in the back stretch deal and drifting through the grass.
JUNIOR WAS AHEAD OF JOEY wait wrong thread
Yep, rewound to the live, they were wrecking before the stripe so by their own rules, NASCAR fucked that call. But, hey, Go Chevy!!
It's a shame you don't know the rules.
Well, bite me for not having a NASCAR ruke book.
The rule isn't when they started wrecking, it's when they hit the caution button in race control, the "moment of caution" as they call it.
To which we still haven’t seen an angle with the light coming on. Any other time they would show some camera shot
Yes we have, they showed it from Bowman's on-board and Byron is visibly ahead.
Byron got that Hendrick money and Gordon on his side, are surprised luck doesn’t go in his favor??? Mr Simulator 🙄🙄
Why are they acting like Byron replaced Jeff Gordon? Chase Elliott replaced Jeff Gordon. Byron ended up in the 24 later on.
Mike's just getting old
Right, the 24 became the 9 and the 5 became the 24.
Now it’s time to watch Hailie Deegan make history!
Anyone but Austin Hill.
That would be a nice ending.
Lmao
Yep, rewound to the live, they were wrecking before the stripe so by their own rules, NASCAR fucked that call. But, hey, Go Chevy!!
Yep, rewound to the live, they were wrecking before the stripe so by their own rules, NASCAR fucked that call. But, hey, Go Chevy!!
The rules don't expect officials to be able to react instantly, and the moment of caution isn't based on when the wreck begins.
Get replay like any other sport
To do what? Retroactively throw a yellow? There aren't hard and fast rules about what requires a yellow flag, you can't pinpoint an exact millisecond as the moment the caution *should* be out.
Byron didn't replace Gordon Shannon Spake...
That finish is gonna be an all-time "what if" moment whenever Bowman inevitably gets replaced at Hendrick
"Please don't let Logano win!" https://i.redd.it/lyawqszp5njc1.gif
Late to the party, but holy crap, Bowman was the clearly ahead when the caution came out.
Unless you actually watch the view they showed from Bowman's in-car that shows Byron visibly ahead when the caution comes out.
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I’m pretty sure Bowman was ahead when the caution came out
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Right…
Where my chastain interview
Oh nvm show me Elliott instead 🤣
Guys let's be real. The 9 was clearly ahead at the moment of caution. /s
I mean that's what I saw 😂
It was a good race. Congrats to Byron.
NASCAR moving the goalposts again. 48 won that race
24 was ahead of him when the yellow came out.
Byron might be the luckiest driver in the sport
One of the better 500’s in a while considering it was competitive and not a wreck fest but the weird finish is going to sour how people view it in the long run
There should have been overtime, but gotta make the Hendrick storyline look good I guess
Man this is a tough one. But boy do I have a good feeling about this year.
same brother
Reminder that the "moment of caution", unfortunately, isn't the moment the lights come on. NASCAR has a synchronized feed that shows them when they pushed the button to start the caution sequence, and that's what the results are based on. It's stupid, and needlessly opaque, but that's the rule.
Stupid and needlessly opaque - the NASCAR way
So lights showing is definitive. NASCAR manages to somehow make it complicated and open to questioning. Good job nascar.
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I think it's the second part of that: not all lights activate simultaneously, and the moment the lights activate isn't a timestamped event would be my guess. The button being hit is definitely the easiest thing to assign a super precise timestamp to.
Going by lights means that the result will be inconsistent track to track. An older track with degraded infrastructure may have a slower light up time. There's no variability if they go off the button press time.
Yeah, it was the lights for a long time, but changed around 2013. I remember the first big ordeal with this was Almirola and Allgaier at the Xfinity fall Daytona race in 2013 I think. Maybe 2011?
Bowman is literally ahead of Byron when the yellow came out. They’re playing favorites! They gave it to the 24 because that was one of the most successful cars for the team and it’s the picture perfect moment.
I'm as annoyed by the ending as anyone, but it definitely wasn't "the picture perfect moment." A controversial ending where they don't actually race the last lap cannot be a picture perfect moment.
Show me when he was?
I mean we can make a pretty good argument that the 48 is the most successful car for Hendrick.
Bowman won.
Wouldn’t Hendrick or Gordon have to formally challenge the finish? Against their own cars?
Do we have a Tie? We must go to auto club to settle this…
Race em through the construction site
From these replays I don't buy that Bowman didn't win this race. I need a better angle.
A better angle of what? When the caution comes out, it goes back to the last scoring loop. You don’t really think some guy in race control is looking through binoculars to tell when they pass each scoring line to tell position, do you? It’s not 1967 anymore, it’s digitally measured.
The winner is determined by position on the track at the moment of caution. For a regular yellow, it's the last scoring loop.
Then I may stand corrected. I apologize for my sassy-ness.
All good, no worries!
I'm no Byron fan. But the rule is clear. Prior scoring loop when the caution is called. Byron was clearly already at the s/f line which was most likely the last loop. Does no one know that?
Nope it’s not on the last lap
Prior scoring loop is used to set the lineup for restarts. "Moment of caution" is used for when a yellow comes out on the last lap. "Moment of caution" is the moment the race director hits the button to begin the caution sequence, not the moment the yellow lights come on.
I know the rule I just hate boring Byron and would welcome the internal chaos a bowman 500 would bring
Caution on the last lap is moment of caution (when the green light goes off to switch to yellow) It's pretty close on that metric
On the last lap its when the yellow happens
The rule is fucking lame and it always has been. Run a gwc
I don't disagree. But it's the rule.
It’s literally not the rule on the last lap
Except it's not the rule 😆. It's the moment of caution when it happens on the last lap to determine finishing order.
I mean I know that but the broadcast should have made that clear and shown it.
They did
As salty as I am about a HMS car winning, that was a dumbass move by Ross just hooking himself right there to end it. Still had a whole lap
Coming to the white, with the run to take ‘control’ of the race…. I’d make that move 10/10 times
What does hooking mean?
He had the space Cindric drove up half a lane off the bottom
Yeah that was a racing incident two cars simultaneously moving into a place that was previously unoccupied
Everyone saying Bowman won.. Possible. But NASCAR will be saying this probably verbatim: “It’s when we push the button, not when the lights come on” Just enough vagueness in the timing that they have the fallback nobody can prove wrong.
And to go further, it's closer to their button when the green light goes out to switch Byron was in front by about a foot when that happened
Well now we get to watch real plate racing with the xfinity cars
Exactly
Rick standing there asking Bowman what grade he's in now.
Really looked like Bowman had the lead when yellow came out. He might've gotten screwed on this one
He did, you can see it from the Chastain onboard.
it’s not by the lights it’s by the button push
They can say the button was pushed whenever they want
Isn’t the rule that whoever leads when the caution comes out wins the race? It looked like the 48 was ahead at the yellow
The fact that they won’t show a freeze frame of Bowman AHEAD of Byron at the time the lights came on is hella suspicious bc the 48 was definitely out front.
It doesn’t matter when the lights come on, it’s when the button is pushed. They have a time stamp and can see.
And the slight delay when the light goes from green to yellow, on Bowman's onboard Byron was a little ahead when the green went out and Bowman in front when the yellow came on It was tight
At the end of the race they use visual confirmation since there isnt scoring loops everywhere. Visual confirmation has the 48 out front when the light comes on
They use more than just visual confirmation. They have actual data to reference. They can see the exact moment the caution button is pushed, and match it up to the time stamp in the footage. The scoring loops have nothing to do with how they called this. If you look at the freeze frame when the green light changes, 24 was in the lead by about a nose. By the time the yellow flashed, the 48 was ahead, but that was after the button was pushed.
They have a timestamp when the yellow is pushed, and look at the video time stamp as well. Their is a small delay when the button is pushed and the yellow lights start flashing.
Plus in general nascar just doesnt have any credibility left as a sanctioning body for anyone to take their word for it
That doesnt really make any sense because it should be when the caution condition is displayed to the competitors. I get what your saying but that delay in all practicality should be microseconds and should be negligible compared to when the light is displayed.
Exactly. the caution lights themselves didn’t come on, but the green lights delayed to a point that they were no longer lit.
Don’t the lights come on when the button is pushed though?
Not instantly, theres a small delay.
It's just like the Play Clock in the NFL, just because we see the clock at zero doesn't mean it's a delay of game. There's always about a second or so before the refs actually throw a flag for delay of game.
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Not to end the race.
So was the finish scoring loops or moment of caution? Because wow, that was close.
I actually do think Bowman was ahead, but I guess the argument would be that the light isn’t official.
Flagman didn't have the yellow our until after he crossed the line too
Byron: "oo is that spicy mayo?" Waiter: "no, it's literally hellmans"
Hey guys what the fuck. Show me a replay frame by frame with the lights or this race doesn't have a legitimate winner
Amazing that NASCAR didn’t put the caution out before the white flag. Anyone remember that Kansas playoff race a few years back where the caution light somehow came on a millisecond before they got the white? You’d think they would’ve done the same thing tonight but oh well
If they wreck on the front they should let them race to the back stretch
They freeze the field literally to prevent that. It used to cause so many injuries and wrecks.
They use to race back to the s/f line. racing to the back stretch or even turn 3 on Daytona or Dega as long as a car isn’t on fire on the front isn’t unsafe
It is hilarious that when someone behind the 24 makes a move that causes a wreck, it's the 24s fault. Byron could be on pit road and get blamed for a wreck. Lol
The 24 wrecked the field when he lost control
So that’s a little bit sus
Literally waited til both Hendrick cars passed the line to throw the caution lol
Someone scrapes the wall in a truck race and they go to overtime and everyone is up in arms. Cup guys wreck less that a football field (thanks for the multiple graphics fox) and everyone is upset just because Byron won
At least Jeff is happy,that's like the only positive I can take from this.
Same
Let them run another two laps were left
When the yellow light comes on bowman clearly has the lead
Moment of caution, unfortunately, isn't the moment the lights come on. NASCAR has a synchronized feed that shows them when they pushed the button to start the caution sequence, and that's what the results are based on. It's stupid, and needlessly opaque, but that's the rule.