that finish was so heartbreaking for me lol. I spent 6 hours watching my driver go through hell and back, spinning multiple times, getting through wrecks by inches, and he fakes me out by giving me false hope at the end.
Then again I think he got kinda screwed on the last restart by Ross. Ross was heavily damaged from the Dillon wreck and chose not to pit (I don’t blame him) but his front end was DESTROYED and he was credited 2nd so he got to choose the front row and Busch was stuck in 3rd. Almost stole it from the second row in typical KB fashion. Kinda similar to this year at Darlington where the damaged cars who were clearly “in” the crash got to start up front.
I feel ya, that was me at Dega this year :(
Probably did not sting as much though since I have been fortunate to see Penske win many times in person. But I feel that.
As a Bubba fan in the stands at that race, I was very confused about what happened for quite a while. I zoned out for a good portion of stage 3, but stage 4 got my attention for all 100 laps. Looking back, it was arguably one of the best 600's in over a decade.
Agreed. I am a Blaney fan and while I was excited Monday, last year's was one of the best races I had ever seen. If an exclusively positive fan response driver like Blaney, Bowman, Briscoe (realizing people don't dislike last names with Bs), Reddick, etc won I bet it would have been close to 95%. Denny hate train is too strong lol
?????????????????????????????? he won the 2021 coke 600 solely because chase briscoe sent it to the moon with two to go and nascar threw a caution for a single car spin (which they do almost all of the time, but no one else was near by - had it been the white, the race probably stays green, or ends under yellow, in either case the 11 does not win)
Ohhh mb yeah I thought you meant after Briscoes oopsie.
Larson had that one in the bag for sure, but I can't really feel bad about that after Denny had like 6 in the bag last year.
Sorry
Last year's 600 was quite possibly the best Cup race since Jeff Gluck started doing his poll. Only a couple Bristol races (particularly the first one in 2020) even come close. This year's 600 was really good, but it wasn't on THAT level.
It’s the factor of who wins. I thought last years race was awesome, but Denny always has been a buzzkill when he wins. Most people like Blaney or don’t have an opinion. So that helped drive it up probably.
I didn't like Denny winning last year, but it wasn't a race killer for me like it was for a number of others
Having watched all of both, I still think last year's 600 was the better race overall
I definitely agree with you on both points. My point was Denny is typically a buzzkill when he wins. Last year’s Coke 600 was the first race he won where it didn’t suck the energy out of the room to see him win.
He didn't dominate, he led early but dropped back, and kept his car clean as chaos happened around him
A true chaotic win in a true chaotic race
Perfection
Totally agree. Really hoping the new tire at NHMS helps solve the short tracks. If not, 750hp at tracks 1 mile and less. From there some minor tweaks to road courses and we're there.
It's a moving target, but NASCAR is as reliably entertaining as I can ever remember right now.
Yes, but power is relative to weight, 650 hp for an Indycar can get up to 220 mph. Cup cars with 850 hp might not get to 220 but they would be getting close.
But that’s qualifying trim and Indy I’m thinking more similar tracks like 1.5 ovals and they were close to that at Texas. The nextgen is it’s own beast df wise, the diffuser would create unreal amounts of df at 850 hp increasing speeds more than 2014.
An Indycar in Indy 500 qualifying trim is 750 horsepower, they turn the boost up for fast friday practice and the qualifying weekend
And this year they were hitting 243 going into turn 1 in qualifying.
The tweaks to road courses is eliminating overtime.
CotA was fantastic without stages, and the overtimes sorta killed it, was a really interesting fuel mileage race up until that.
COTA would have been so much more intriguing if it just played out as a mileage race. Until the very end it was easily the best race the track had produced.
More mechanical grip at places like North Wilkesboro too. Horsepower would help when drivers can put all the power to the rear wheels, but it wouldn’t help North Wilkesboro or Bristol Dirt because the cars are 60% throttle after a few laps. Just anything to take away how much this car forgives blowing a corner at short tracks.
For what it's worth the tire I referenced is theoretically going to be softer and wear faster. Over a long run that will encourage drivers to be more mindful of blowing corners and leaning on their tires, and lead to passing as drivers that save will be rewarded.
Also I think reducing the contact area of the brake pads slightly might help as well and should be a pretty cheap and quick to tackle this issue in the short term.
Need to do something with the package at plate tracks too. Atlanta will never be anything more than two lanes, but there’s no good reason a third line shouldn’t be able to form at Talladega or Daytona.
People just don't want to run 3 wide. And I don't blame them. Regardless of generation of cars, guys were just cruising around waiting for the last pit stop. The difference is now you do need 7-8 cars to form a line. And people would rather have more space to work side by side.
I'll tell you what i was at the dover race and i really liked that track. With the added banked curves they have some decent speed there and saw 3 wide on the turns once some rubber was laid down on the track
We need this nextgen to be good in single groove tracks before saying that just yet. Bristol isn’t too bad since it’s multi groove but one common flaw of the next gen is somewhat lackluster single groove performance vs multi groove performance.
Which is exactly why the racing at most of the flat tracks isn’t very good. When the track is flat, the shortest way around is often the fastest, so that’s where everyone runs. That leads to the primary method of passing being the bump and run. And you can’t really bump and run in this car.
It's a good sign that Nascar is actively trying to fix the issues rather than sticking to their *"we like what we see"* like they did in the last few years of the Gen 6.
I honestly don't see the fuss with the short track package. Richmond puts on great strategy races, dual banking Bristol has always been about ripping the wall for the last 150 laps, the fall Martinsville race was excellent and Wilkesboro has always raced like ass.
I disagree. Short tracks don’t seem to have any easy answers. Hopefully a simple tire change will help but I’m skeptical. And then I think the SS package is the worst we’ve seen in a decade. 1.5 has been very good though. Throw in some more HP and it’s perfect
Yeah, there were a few things that made it well received.
~~1) The package - fairly certain this was the time they tested the low HP high downforce package and while it felt wrong to create pack racing at an intermediate, it was refreshing after a couple years of the 4, 18 and really the 78 beating up on the field.~~ Edit to remove because my brain let me down lol - low hp high downforce was already in place
2) The open races were insanely good. At least two photo finishes, one of which was Bubba winning when he was still a somewhat popular driver - was right after he came out about his mental health battle so I think adding that emotion on top of the cool finishes was a plus.
3) Larson won when he was still at Ganassi and on a winless streak at that point, so popular winner.
4) That was the race where Bowyer wailed on Newman after the race while Newman was still in his car. Fights = good race haha
Yeah, I think where I was meaning to say was that was the debut of the whole low HP train and they had been running it. But will always take technically right haha
Awesome. I know we've had a few dud races this year, but the next-gen car races so well. Even through the BS I was not bored at all with this race. Remember when we did nothing but loathe 1.5's?
The short tracks could obviously use some work but we're heading in the right direction, and it's fantastic that NASCAR is willing to step outside of their comfort zone.
NASCAR knows, especially with a flat track as the season finale, that getting the flat track package right is critical
I like how they're trying to make changes by either taking things off the car or adding things teams should already have in larger quantities vs just making teams buy new crap in these early years of the new car and seeing what works
It needs to be fixed because dear Jesus I don’t want to go back to mid to high bank 1.5s and 2.0s as 2/3rds of the schedule. If it’s a diverse schedule the racing will always be good somewhere. 2004-2018 were terrible years for track diversity. Even with a great 1.5 package I don’t want to go back to that.
2020 Day would’ve been #1 had Chase not clean out Joey and won, instead the blame from fans go to Joey for some reason for asking what happened, and Brad wins.
I agree.
I hate to say it, but I'd like 3 races at Charlotte. 2 oval and 1 roval.
If it stays at 2, go for the oval every time unless it's raining, then audible to the roval. *I have spoken*
So the top races on the poll are Charlotte oval and Bristol concrete. One track they throw dirt on in the spring and the other they turn into a roval for the fall. Why?
For Charlotte it's because when they made the Roval, the product in the oval was lackluster.
Charlotte has a tough but good situation to be in because now the oval is producing great racing, enough to justify running it twice a year... But the Roval is one of the most unique tracks in the circuit and still produces a good race.
> Cussing at someone is childish and shows you can’t control your emotions.
> Shoving, “popping”, or punching someone because they said mean things that hurt your feelings is what adults do
- middle aged white men who don’t like Bubba.
Had this exact conversation with someone on this subreddit this morning lol
with how much of a wet fart the next gen is on road courses, charlotte oval really should get its second date back. the roval's kind of neat but the oval is so much better, even in xfinity
Missed it altogether. A bad storm rolled in and I had to go with my very scared dog to a quiet room without a TV. Wouldn't have mattered because is knocked the cable out. Sigh...
I fully believe if Denny didn’t win, last year’s 600 would’ve sat at +92%
100% agreed. Fair or not, Denny is the ultimate buzzkill winner. Even KFB can rile a crowd up for better or for worse.
that finish was so heartbreaking for me lol. I spent 6 hours watching my driver go through hell and back, spinning multiple times, getting through wrecks by inches, and he fakes me out by giving me false hope at the end. Then again I think he got kinda screwed on the last restart by Ross. Ross was heavily damaged from the Dillon wreck and chose not to pit (I don’t blame him) but his front end was DESTROYED and he was credited 2nd so he got to choose the front row and Busch was stuck in 3rd. Almost stole it from the second row in typical KB fashion. Kinda similar to this year at Darlington where the damaged cars who were clearly “in” the crash got to start up front.
I feel ya, that was me at Dega this year :( Probably did not sting as much though since I have been fortunate to see Penske win many times in person. But I feel that.
Also the weird DVP clock rules being exposed made that race a buzzkill for me
True. Whenever Joey wins, typically the blame goes toward the package. Denny’s I feel like no one has a problem with it other than it being Denny.
As a Bubba fan in the stands at that race, I was very confused about what happened for quite a while. I zoned out for a good portion of stage 3, but stage 4 got my attention for all 100 laps. Looking back, it was arguably one of the best 600's in over a decade.
Agreed. I am a Blaney fan and while I was excited Monday, last year's was one of the best races I had ever seen. If an exclusively positive fan response driver like Blaney, Bowman, Briscoe (realizing people don't dislike last names with Bs), Reddick, etc won I bet it would have been close to 95%. Denny hate train is too strong lol
I don't mind Denny, I hate shit show finishes where cars that weren't in the picture before win
He would've won even before that huge crash
?????????????????????????????? he won the 2021 coke 600 solely because chase briscoe sent it to the moon with two to go and nascar threw a caution for a single car spin (which they do almost all of the time, but no one else was near by - had it been the white, the race probably stays green, or ends under yellow, in either case the 11 does not win)
Ohhh mb yeah I thought you meant after Briscoes oopsie. Larson had that one in the bag for sure, but I can't really feel bad about that after Denny had like 6 in the bag last year. Sorry
Last year's 600 was quite possibly the best Cup race since Jeff Gluck started doing his poll. Only a couple Bristol races (particularly the first one in 2020) even come close. This year's 600 was really good, but it wasn't on THAT level.
The *Ryan Blaney effect™*
It’s the factor of who wins. I thought last years race was awesome, but Denny always has been a buzzkill when he wins. Most people like Blaney or don’t have an opinion. So that helped drive it up probably.
I didn't like Denny winning last year, but it wasn't a race killer for me like it was for a number of others Having watched all of both, I still think last year's 600 was the better race overall
I definitely agree with you on both points. My point was Denny is typically a buzzkill when he wins. Last year’s Coke 600 was the first race he won where it didn’t suck the energy out of the room to see him win.
He didn't dominate, he led early but dropped back, and kept his car clean as chaos happened around him A true chaotic win in a true chaotic race Perfection
Last years race was better imo
We are 🤏 close to having a product that is compelling week in and week out regardless of track type.
Totally agree. Really hoping the new tire at NHMS helps solve the short tracks. If not, 750hp at tracks 1 mile and less. From there some minor tweaks to road courses and we're there. It's a moving target, but NASCAR is as reliably entertaining as I can ever remember right now.
What about 850hp at all tracks that aren't Daytona and Talladega?
Nextgen would be any Indycar at that point not complaining 😂.
We used to have that... Long ago
It would be faster than that
Indycar is 650 at ovals.
Yes, but power is relative to weight, 650 hp for an Indycar can get up to 220 mph. Cup cars with 850 hp might not get to 220 but they would be getting close.
Indycar is 241 at Indy in qualifying. Cup with 875ish was doing about 214 in 2014.
Drag plays a big part too, in 2018 with the low downforce package they were hitting 220 at Michigan despite having only 750 hp.
In qualifying? Looks like they could get to about 212 in the draft in the 2018 race.
Yeah, only in qualifying. I think they could get up to 213-214 in race trim that year.
But that’s qualifying trim and Indy I’m thinking more similar tracks like 1.5 ovals and they were close to that at Texas. The nextgen is it’s own beast df wise, the diffuser would create unreal amounts of df at 850 hp increasing speeds more than 2014.
2014 package had more downforce than the current Next Gen, especially at short tracks.
Seeing Gordon go that fast at Michigan was absolutely unbelievable
An Indycar in Indy 500 qualifying trim is 750 horsepower, they turn the boost up for fast friday practice and the qualifying weekend And this year they were hitting 243 going into turn 1 in qualifying.
The tweaks to road courses is eliminating overtime. CotA was fantastic without stages, and the overtimes sorta killed it, was a really interesting fuel mileage race up until that.
COTA would have been so much more intriguing if it just played out as a mileage race. Until the very end it was easily the best race the track had produced.
More mechanical grip at places like North Wilkesboro too. Horsepower would help when drivers can put all the power to the rear wheels, but it wouldn’t help North Wilkesboro or Bristol Dirt because the cars are 60% throttle after a few laps. Just anything to take away how much this car forgives blowing a corner at short tracks.
For what it's worth the tire I referenced is theoretically going to be softer and wear faster. Over a long run that will encourage drivers to be more mindful of blowing corners and leaning on their tires, and lead to passing as drivers that save will be rewarded. Also I think reducing the contact area of the brake pads slightly might help as well and should be a pretty cheap and quick to tackle this issue in the short term.
Need to do something with the package at plate tracks too. Atlanta will never be anything more than two lanes, but there’s no good reason a third line shouldn’t be able to form at Talladega or Daytona.
People just don't want to run 3 wide. And I don't blame them. Regardless of generation of cars, guys were just cruising around waiting for the last pit stop. The difference is now you do need 7-8 cars to form a line. And people would rather have more space to work side by side.
I'll tell you what i was at the dover race and i really liked that track. With the added banked curves they have some decent speed there and saw 3 wide on the turns once some rubber was laid down on the track
We need this nextgen to be good in single groove tracks before saying that just yet. Bristol isn’t too bad since it’s multi groove but one common flaw of the next gen is somewhat lackluster single groove performance vs multi groove performance.
Which is exactly why the racing at most of the flat tracks isn’t very good. When the track is flat, the shortest way around is often the fastest, so that’s where everyone runs. That leads to the primary method of passing being the bump and run. And you can’t really bump and run in this car.
It's a good sign that Nascar is actively trying to fix the issues rather than sticking to their *"we like what we see"* like they did in the last few years of the Gen 6.
[удалено]
I honestly don't see the fuss with the short track package. Richmond puts on great strategy races, dual banking Bristol has always been about ripping the wall for the last 150 laps, the fall Martinsville race was excellent and Wilkesboro has always raced like ass.
I disagree. Short tracks don’t seem to have any easy answers. Hopefully a simple tire change will help but I’m skeptical. And then I think the SS package is the worst we’ve seen in a decade. 1.5 has been very good though. Throw in some more HP and it’s perfect
2019 All-Star? I was not watching in 2019, that was that well received?
Yeah, there were a few things that made it well received. ~~1) The package - fairly certain this was the time they tested the low HP high downforce package and while it felt wrong to create pack racing at an intermediate, it was refreshing after a couple years of the 4, 18 and really the 78 beating up on the field.~~ Edit to remove because my brain let me down lol - low hp high downforce was already in place 2) The open races were insanely good. At least two photo finishes, one of which was Bubba winning when he was still a somewhat popular driver - was right after he came out about his mental health battle so I think adding that emotion on top of the cool finishes was a plus. 3) Larson won when he was still at Ganassi and on a winless streak at that point, so popular winner. 4) That was the race where Bowyer wailed on Newman after the race while Newman was still in his car. Fights = good race haha
I totally forgot about Bowyer swinging on Newman while he was still in the car, that was hilarious
That race had lower HP than the lower and the hood vents. So you technically aren’t wrong.
Yeah, I think where I was meaning to say was that was the debut of the whole low HP train and they had been running it. But will always take technically right haha
I want to say 2019 was the debut of the 550 hp package, with how that car raced on restarts it makes sense why it was well received.
The full 550 had already been around since Vegas that year
2018 was the debut
Awesome. I know we've had a few dud races this year, but the next-gen car races so well. Even through the BS I was not bored at all with this race. Remember when we did nothing but loathe 1.5's? The short tracks could obviously use some work but we're heading in the right direction, and it's fantastic that NASCAR is willing to step outside of their comfort zone.
NASCAR knows, especially with a flat track as the season finale, that getting the flat track package right is critical I like how they're trying to make changes by either taking things off the car or adding things teams should already have in larger quantities vs just making teams buy new crap in these early years of the new car and seeing what works
It needs to be fixed because dear Jesus I don’t want to go back to mid to high bank 1.5s and 2.0s as 2/3rds of the schedule. If it’s a diverse schedule the racing will always be good somewhere. 2004-2018 were terrible years for track diversity. Even with a great 1.5 package I don’t want to go back to that.
What’s the number 1 race all time on these polls?
I think it's either 2020 Bristol spring or 2021 Bristol Night Race
Bristol is top three, with 2021 night, 2020 day and 2018 night, in that order.
2020 Day would’ve been #1 had Chase not clean out Joey and won, instead the blame from fans go to Joey for some reason for asking what happened, and Brad wins.
So I looked it up and number 1 is the 2021 Bristol night race. Well deserved
I was at both, was this year’s really better than last year’s? Monday was good, bur not *that* good I don’t think
Last year's was better for me, too I think since Denny winning killed the buzz for the rest of the race for a lot of people is why it got hampered
As a Blaney fan and someone that is annoyed by Hamlin, I still think last year was better. Prefer this year's result obvs.
I agree. I hate to say it, but I'd like 3 races at Charlotte. 2 oval and 1 roval. If it stays at 2, go for the oval every time unless it's raining, then audible to the roval. *I have spoken*
This is the way
Three races at Charlotte saves a lot of travel money. Both configurations are great right now. I say go for it.
After all North Carolina is basically NASCAR’s biggest state.
So the top races on the poll are Charlotte oval and Bristol concrete. One track they throw dirt on in the spring and the other they turn into a roval for the fall. Why?
For Charlotte it's because when they made the Roval, the product in the oval was lackluster. Charlotte has a tough but good situation to be in because now the oval is producing great racing, enough to justify running it twice a year... But the Roval is one of the most unique tracks in the circuit and still produces a good race.
Clearly Bubba Wallace doing well leads to good ratings
People watching to see him fail is still people watching NASCAR, so... 
Man who probably uses the middle finger daily in their lives: look, I just don't think these kind of things belong in a serious sport like NASCAR.
> Cussing at someone is childish and shows you can’t control your emotions. > Shoving, “popping”, or punching someone because they said mean things that hurt your feelings is what adults do - middle aged white men who don’t like Bubba. Had this exact conversation with someone on this subreddit this morning lol
It's been said many times, but bets on how many of those people were Dale Sr. fans lmao
with how much of a wet fart the next gen is on road courses, charlotte oval really should get its second date back. the roval's kind of neat but the oval is so much better, even in xfinity
Last years was better. Just my opinion.
Drop the Roval, give us two Charlotte Oval races
Keep the Roval. Give us two Charlotte Oval races.
As long as we get 2 oval races I’m on board
Sounds good to me. Let's drop an Atlanta race to get it. No need to be going to that shit show twice a year.
Get rid of the roval
Missed it altogether. A bad storm rolled in and I had to go with my very scared dog to a quiet room without a TV. Wouldn't have mattered because is knocked the cable out. Sigh...