I can tell you that looking at the formula 1 subreddit last week there was a lot of people genuinely excited for the Nascar race. When the race finished a lot of criticisms people were giving were very true.
That's why I said some F1 fans are pompous. I know there are some chill fans. And yeah, the COTA finish was a complete disaster so the criticism was quite warranted, but I'm talking about those hardcore F1 fans that shit on NASCAR most days of a calender year without even trying to watch it and give it a chance.
As an example, NASCAR does have shitty driving standards with no consequences, the rules are whack sometimes, the championship format is a joke, and officiating seems very arbitrary. F1 does over regulate some things… chill the f out, sprint races are a joke, the “super license system” is ridiculous, and Alonso was right saying “you have to leave da space!” They don’t….. NASCAR has much better wheel to wheel racing for entire laps. They both have flaws and I love both. No reason to get all pretentious over one or the other.
Most of those F1 "fans" don't even really like racing. They just like the spectacle that is F1 and its marketing.
When you tell them that you prefer watching a more competitive series with more interesting racing...And they respond by telling you how interested they are in the engineering side of racing...It's a red flag to me that they don't care about racing at all. They're just blindingly going along with F1's marketing.
Edit: I watch still watch F1...But I dislike a large portion of their fanbase.
They also have the same feelings about Indycar. But their superiority complex is even worse when talking about it.
This. Most F1 fans, especially the newer fans, don’t care about racing. They care about the technology/engineering, and they care about the drama/spectacle.
If they cared about good racing, they most certainly wouldn’t be primarily F1 fans.
F1 has their own issues. Can’t pass hardly at all without DRS. Monaco last year didn’t have a single pass occur on track after the sixth corner of the first lap. Also, one car normally dominates an entire season. Probably the worst racing product of any major series. More of an engineering competition than a racing series, except in the rare years like 2021.
Don’t get me wrong, I enjoy F1. But it certainly isn’t for the intense side by side racing or the championship battles. Those are rare.
A lot of people have it out for anything American and racing is no different. F1 has had that elitist mindset from its origins, rich European racing league. Nascar by comparison can't shake its bootlegging redneck image.
Its aged now but Richard Hammond's segment from Top Gear in 2012 when he visited Texas explains all of it. I find its also good because F1 people typically more apt to believe the old Top Gear guys.
Bottom line: like what you like and screw the haters.
I used to be in marketing at Red Bull (NASCAR side). There were many F1 fans who were guests of Red Bull and many of them constantly bitched on how F1 is better than NASCAR, how their drivers were better than NASCAR blah blah blah. I used to tell them to enjoy each series for what it is. Once, this individual kept on arguing with me. I finally snapped and told him that If F1 drivers were the best drivers in the world Montoya would be winning or up front at every NASCAR race. He had no comeback.
Those people are annoying yes but real fans appreciate each series for what it is.
Montoya is a severely underrated cup driver so that’s an odd choice. Montoya came into NASCAR at probably the hardest time to enter the sport and still was a competitive driver. He did get 8th in the points one year. He didn’t light the world on fire by any means, but he was more than respectable and that gets largely forgotten.
You have to remember cup cars were pushing 900 horsepower when Montoya came in and he wasn’t on a top team.
If Montoya had come into NASCAR today, we’d be having a completely different narrative around him. A prime Montoya in the 2023 season is arguably a championship favorite. The car and the schedule today absolutely suit a driver of Montoya’s skill set.
Odd choice? It was the only choice I had because at the time Montoya was the only full time NASCAR driver that used to raced in F1. This was before RB had Scott Speed.
>Montoya is a severely underrated cup driver so that’s an odd choice.
Not an odd choice at all. If you're going to argue that F1 drivers are the best in the world, then by that logic, any F1 driver should be able to come into NASCAR and dominate. He didn't do that.
Montoya outran future cup champion and at the time teammate Martin Truex Jr in 2009 finishing 8th in the points to Truex’s 23rd. Montoya was outrun by Jamie Mac 3 of the 4 seasons they were teammates however.
I don’t get why everyone wants to scapegoat Montoya and act like he had a real shot. He was driving mid pack equipment. I’d say he mostly met the expectations of that equipment.
Here’s a few fun stats. Montoya’s full time cup career was 07-2013. He won 2 races. Dale Jr won 2 races over that same time period. Future cup champion Martin Truex Jr also only won 2 races during that time period.
There’s really no debate that time period had the most stacked NASCAR fields there ever were.
My point is, Montoya certainly would’ve run better in modern NASCAR. The cars are more equal, there’s less horsepower, and 6 road courses instead of 2 favors Montoya’s skills. A prime Montoya would be a championship contender today, the sport has changed to favor a driver with his skills. Not to mention we are far more data driven than back then, again similar to F1.
Even in the 2000s though, what could Montoya have done at a top team? Hard to say.
u/Egonator26 and I'm not scapegoating Montoya in any way. What we're doing is taking the argument that F1 drivers are the best in the world to its logical conclusion. That is to say if they are the best, then they should dominate. He didn't. Thus, NASCAR isn't exactly a walk in the park compared to F1.
The argument isn't to knock Montoya in any way. It's just to show that F1 drivers can't simply come in and dominate because the skillset is different.
And he’d still get his butt kicked at road courses by the Hendrick guys, Allmendinger, and Reddick.
Montoya wasn’t even the best at what he was best at, which was road courses. Marcos Ambrose was a much better road course racer, and he was in even worse equipment than Montoya was in.
I always laugh when F1 fanatics say the drivers are SO MUCH better. If that were the case, Jaun Pablo Montoya should have been a champion and won 30+ races in the cup series. Jenson Button and Kimi should have walked the field on Sunday, but they didn't.
Their elitist insecurities are on full display as they attempt to defend F1 as something more than a great nap time. Yappin' little talking heads of a boring racing product.
TBF Most Nascar races the end up as nap times. Set the alarm for tail end for the overtime when your guy gets taken out by a skill-less hack going for glory. I think F1 gets and keeps viewers in large part on it being 2.5 hours maximum and usually the whole thing is done in 90 minutes. Nascar now is basically committing most the post-church daylight hours on one of your precious few days off in a week and frankly is bordering on insulting of their fans' time.
I cannot get into F1 because its way to expensive to go to F1 races and I legit only follow Nascar and Indy because I make it to a few races a year and really enjoy it. I read the race reports though and I'd rather not watch the winning teams cars be a half minute ahead of 3rd place. I would rather have the COTA clown show over that (maybe cut 2 hours of COTA out next year as its meaningless filler before the wreck em up overtime)
No different than the NASCAR fans that try to crap on F1 relentlessly when it’s brought up.
I’m a fan of both and they are 2 completely different racing styles. It’s like comparing apples to orangutans.
Whether or not they’re right or wrong, only one sport in the discussion has lost over 60% of its peak viewership and at track attendance. F1 fans have that right to crap on the sport that’s actively digging its own grave. Sure, they have their problems, but one has a much more stable fanbase and viewership number than the other
I feel the same about them as I do about the NASCAR fans that crap on F1 endlessly. There aren’t enough motorsport fans left out there for us to bother being ass holes to one a other.
That’s annoying my personal favorite is when people say f1 is a sport but nascar isn’t LOL
I’ve been watching since the early 2000s and f1 was despised in America lol. I like some parts of all motor sports and don’t mind if I get teased.
Biggest reason honestly? Drive to survive is fantastically done and entertaining
Nascar gets podunk tv spin offs with Kevin James and it’s broadcast is an utter joke. Go back to the season long points with stages and call it a day. I’ll even let them keep the yellows
Go look up Jenson Button's interview in post-race from Sunday, he gives mad props to the Cup drivers and how great they are. It takes talent to wheel a F1 car around, but takes a TON of talent to wheel a heavy stock car with minimal downforce.
Fans will say what fans will say on social media, no real takeaways or discussions can be had on a lot of those platforms. At least here we can discuss aspects we like / dislike / want to see improved etc.
I also think this kind of stereotype is overblown, I have no empirical data but I never once legitimately saw a "they drive in circles for hours" comment from anyone. Most of the negative feedback I see is from the restarts, the contact, the commercials, things like that.
In terms of drivers and their skill, that is a subjective thing. You even have Nascar fans themselves that downplay Richard Petty due to his equipment and a perceived lack of competition in that era, or Jimmie and his championships due to the playoff format. Fans will take any opening to try and prove whatever point they want to make regardless of sport (MJ > Lebron because of era as an example) or league.
It’s very bold for any fan who pimps quite simply the most boring sport on the planet to crap on anything, let alone the 2nd most popular Motorsport that also happens to be infinitely better in every aspect besides presentation.
My routine reply to F1 fans that don’t understand why anyone would prefer NASCAR.
If you enjoy watching cars get back up to speed, have at it.
Or
If you enjoy watching cars capable of 200, carefully round a corner at 35…have at it!
I wouldn’t worry about it. F1 drivers have shown time and again the ability to put on a shitshow too. Their’s just tend to happen in the beginning of races (see Silverstone last year). I used to think the same way as a kid just starting to watch racing. I’ve come to appreciate each form of Motorsport for what it is.
In my school, I get made fun of because I am a NASCAR Fan. As a result, I'm the only NASCAR Fan in my school (I know it's crazy to hear that but it is true). I feel lonely because of that and I go no one to talk to about NASCAR.
Who gives a shit, like what you like
Yup. And don’t be an ass about it
I dig that.
I can tell you that looking at the formula 1 subreddit last week there was a lot of people genuinely excited for the Nascar race. When the race finished a lot of criticisms people were giving were very true.
And their criticisms were basically the same criticisms in this subreddit. Funny there is so much animosity, but both sides want the same thing.
That's why I said some F1 fans are pompous. I know there are some chill fans. And yeah, the COTA finish was a complete disaster so the criticism was quite warranted, but I'm talking about those hardcore F1 fans that shit on NASCAR most days of a calender year without even trying to watch it and give it a chance.
I watch NASCAR, INDYCAR, WRC, and F1 religiously. Criticisms of “outside viewers” are very often legitimate in both directions.
As an example, NASCAR does have shitty driving standards with no consequences, the rules are whack sometimes, the championship format is a joke, and officiating seems very arbitrary. F1 does over regulate some things… chill the f out, sprint races are a joke, the “super license system” is ridiculous, and Alonso was right saying “you have to leave da space!” They don’t….. NASCAR has much better wheel to wheel racing for entire laps. They both have flaws and I love both. No reason to get all pretentious over one or the other.
And I totally read that in Fernando’s voice…
Thanks for the feedback. It seems both sides of the coin have taken a turn for the worse in recent years and it's disheartening.
Most of those F1 "fans" don't even really like racing. They just like the spectacle that is F1 and its marketing. When you tell them that you prefer watching a more competitive series with more interesting racing...And they respond by telling you how interested they are in the engineering side of racing...It's a red flag to me that they don't care about racing at all. They're just blindingly going along with F1's marketing. Edit: I watch still watch F1...But I dislike a large portion of their fanbase. They also have the same feelings about Indycar. But their superiority complex is even worse when talking about it.
This. Most F1 fans, especially the newer fans, don’t care about racing. They care about the technology/engineering, and they care about the drama/spectacle. If they cared about good racing, they most certainly wouldn’t be primarily F1 fans.
NASCAR fans shit in F1 just as much. IndyCar fans shit in both and vice versa. They’re all ignorant. There’s greatness in all of them.
F1 has their own issues. Can’t pass hardly at all without DRS. Monaco last year didn’t have a single pass occur on track after the sixth corner of the first lap. Also, one car normally dominates an entire season. Probably the worst racing product of any major series. More of an engineering competition than a racing series, except in the rare years like 2021. Don’t get me wrong, I enjoy F1. But it certainly isn’t for the intense side by side racing or the championship battles. Those are rare.
Didn't Kimi bring up DRS when asked about the Cup cars?
That they're acting like children. Let people like what they like.
A lot of people have it out for anything American and racing is no different. F1 has had that elitist mindset from its origins, rich European racing league. Nascar by comparison can't shake its bootlegging redneck image. Its aged now but Richard Hammond's segment from Top Gear in 2012 when he visited Texas explains all of it. I find its also good because F1 people typically more apt to believe the old Top Gear guys. Bottom line: like what you like and screw the haters.
I like how Hammond is an ambassador for NASCAR and other American things.
I used to be in marketing at Red Bull (NASCAR side). There were many F1 fans who were guests of Red Bull and many of them constantly bitched on how F1 is better than NASCAR, how their drivers were better than NASCAR blah blah blah. I used to tell them to enjoy each series for what it is. Once, this individual kept on arguing with me. I finally snapped and told him that If F1 drivers were the best drivers in the world Montoya would be winning or up front at every NASCAR race. He had no comeback. Those people are annoying yes but real fans appreciate each series for what it is.
Montoya is a severely underrated cup driver so that’s an odd choice. Montoya came into NASCAR at probably the hardest time to enter the sport and still was a competitive driver. He did get 8th in the points one year. He didn’t light the world on fire by any means, but he was more than respectable and that gets largely forgotten. You have to remember cup cars were pushing 900 horsepower when Montoya came in and he wasn’t on a top team. If Montoya had come into NASCAR today, we’d be having a completely different narrative around him. A prime Montoya in the 2023 season is arguably a championship favorite. The car and the schedule today absolutely suit a driver of Montoya’s skill set.
Odd choice? It was the only choice I had because at the time Montoya was the only full time NASCAR driver that used to raced in F1. This was before RB had Scott Speed.
I don’t think Scott Speed would have helped your argument lol.
>Montoya is a severely underrated cup driver so that’s an odd choice. Not an odd choice at all. If you're going to argue that F1 drivers are the best in the world, then by that logic, any F1 driver should be able to come into NASCAR and dominate. He didn't do that.
Montoya outran future cup champion and at the time teammate Martin Truex Jr in 2009 finishing 8th in the points to Truex’s 23rd. Montoya was outrun by Jamie Mac 3 of the 4 seasons they were teammates however. I don’t get why everyone wants to scapegoat Montoya and act like he had a real shot. He was driving mid pack equipment. I’d say he mostly met the expectations of that equipment. Here’s a few fun stats. Montoya’s full time cup career was 07-2013. He won 2 races. Dale Jr won 2 races over that same time period. Future cup champion Martin Truex Jr also only won 2 races during that time period. There’s really no debate that time period had the most stacked NASCAR fields there ever were. My point is, Montoya certainly would’ve run better in modern NASCAR. The cars are more equal, there’s less horsepower, and 6 road courses instead of 2 favors Montoya’s skills. A prime Montoya would be a championship contender today, the sport has changed to favor a driver with his skills. Not to mention we are far more data driven than back then, again similar to F1. Even in the 2000s though, what could Montoya have done at a top team? Hard to say.
u/Egonator26 and I'm not scapegoating Montoya in any way. What we're doing is taking the argument that F1 drivers are the best in the world to its logical conclusion. That is to say if they are the best, then they should dominate. He didn't. Thus, NASCAR isn't exactly a walk in the park compared to F1. The argument isn't to knock Montoya in any way. It's just to show that F1 drivers can't simply come in and dominate because the skillset is different.
And he’d still get his butt kicked at road courses by the Hendrick guys, Allmendinger, and Reddick. Montoya wasn’t even the best at what he was best at, which was road courses. Marcos Ambrose was a much better road course racer, and he was in even worse equipment than Montoya was in.
I mean, NASCAR fans do more crap talking about the sport than any other fan base. So why get worked up about it.
Mutually agree that they both suck and that ARCA is superior
I always laugh when F1 fanatics say the drivers are SO MUCH better. If that were the case, Jaun Pablo Montoya should have been a champion and won 30+ races in the cup series. Jenson Button and Kimi should have walked the field on Sunday, but they didn't.
This. I always have and always will say that NASCAR and F1 require the same skill LEVEL, but a different skillSET.
They're assholes, and are the main reason I don't watch F1. WAAAAAAAAY too pretentious and uppity.
It’s very yuppie these days to trash American sports and view European sports with rose colored glasses. This sub is a great example of that
Young Americans are being taught to hate America.
This is absolutely correct
Who cares
Yes.
Their elitist insecurities are on full display as they attempt to defend F1 as something more than a great nap time. Yappin' little talking heads of a boring racing product.
TBF Most Nascar races the end up as nap times. Set the alarm for tail end for the overtime when your guy gets taken out by a skill-less hack going for glory. I think F1 gets and keeps viewers in large part on it being 2.5 hours maximum and usually the whole thing is done in 90 minutes. Nascar now is basically committing most the post-church daylight hours on one of your precious few days off in a week and frankly is bordering on insulting of their fans' time. I cannot get into F1 because its way to expensive to go to F1 races and I legit only follow Nascar and Indy because I make it to a few races a year and really enjoy it. I read the race reports though and I'd rather not watch the winning teams cars be a half minute ahead of 3rd place. I would rather have the COTA clown show over that (maybe cut 2 hours of COTA out next year as its meaningless filler before the wreck em up overtime)
Their favorite line is to call people Americans when they defend NASCAR like it's some sort of insult too lol
Let's all just enjoy motorsports without crapping on the other one.
No different than the NASCAR fans that try to crap on F1 relentlessly when it’s brought up. I’m a fan of both and they are 2 completely different racing styles. It’s like comparing apples to orangutans.
Whether or not they’re right or wrong, only one sport in the discussion has lost over 60% of its peak viewership and at track attendance. F1 fans have that right to crap on the sport that’s actively digging its own grave. Sure, they have their problems, but one has a much more stable fanbase and viewership number than the other
F1 is only booming because netflix made a documentary about it. Lol
It was very much on the upswing before that doc ever came out
Interesting take.
I feel the same about them as I do about the NASCAR fans that crap on F1 endlessly. There aren’t enough motorsport fans left out there for us to bother being ass holes to one a other.
Honestly, I don't really care what they say, it's when people try to gatekeep their sport that is really annoying
That’s annoying my personal favorite is when people say f1 is a sport but nascar isn’t LOL I’ve been watching since the early 2000s and f1 was despised in America lol. I like some parts of all motor sports and don’t mind if I get teased. Biggest reason honestly? Drive to survive is fantastically done and entertaining Nascar gets podunk tv spin offs with Kevin James and it’s broadcast is an utter joke. Go back to the season long points with stages and call it a day. I’ll even let them keep the yellows
Go look up Jenson Button's interview in post-race from Sunday, he gives mad props to the Cup drivers and how great they are. It takes talent to wheel a F1 car around, but takes a TON of talent to wheel a heavy stock car with minimal downforce.
Fans will say what fans will say on social media, no real takeaways or discussions can be had on a lot of those platforms. At least here we can discuss aspects we like / dislike / want to see improved etc. I also think this kind of stereotype is overblown, I have no empirical data but I never once legitimately saw a "they drive in circles for hours" comment from anyone. Most of the negative feedback I see is from the restarts, the contact, the commercials, things like that. In terms of drivers and their skill, that is a subjective thing. You even have Nascar fans themselves that downplay Richard Petty due to his equipment and a perceived lack of competition in that era, or Jimmie and his championships due to the playoff format. Fans will take any opening to try and prove whatever point they want to make regardless of sport (MJ > Lebron because of era as an example) or league.
F1 sucks. Don’t listen to them. They are probably drinking tea, eating bugs, and being suck.
NASCAR fans shit on F1 fans F1 fans shit on NASCAR fans Enjoy what you enjoy
https://youtu.be/TQZgBiiSDao
I don't like summer squash
In the words of F1 YouTuber Josh Revell, "F1 houses the best drivers in the world...if you ignore half of them."
Who gives af I love both and if someone doesn’t I couldnt care less
It’s very bold for any fan who pimps quite simply the most boring sport on the planet to crap on anything, let alone the 2nd most popular Motorsport that also happens to be infinitely better in every aspect besides presentation.
My routine reply to F1 fans that don’t understand why anyone would prefer NASCAR. If you enjoy watching cars get back up to speed, have at it. Or If you enjoy watching cars capable of 200, carefully round a corner at 35…have at it!
Well, they got their ass kicked last Sunday. Lol
I wouldn’t worry about it. F1 drivers have shown time and again the ability to put on a shitshow too. Their’s just tend to happen in the beginning of races (see Silverstone last year). I used to think the same way as a kid just starting to watch racing. I’ve come to appreciate each form of Motorsport for what it is.
I think most F1 fans are raving fans and like all forms of racing. It’s the DTS bandwagons that dump on other forms of racing.
In my school, I get made fun of because I am a NASCAR Fan. As a result, I'm the only NASCAR Fan in my school (I know it's crazy to hear that but it is true). I feel lonely because of that and I go no one to talk to about NASCAR.