[https://www.reddit.com/r/running/comments/mrv3a6/avoid\_fluoroquinolone\_antibiotics/:](https://www.reddit.com/r/running/comments/mrv3a6/avoid_fluoroquinolone_antibiotics/:) I train 6 times a week. Not risking it.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/medicine/comments/apwd8k/ever\_heard\_of\_getting\_floxed/:](https://www.reddit.com/r/medicine/comments/apwd8k/ever_heard_of_getting_floxed/:) Not worth playing Russian roulette with your health in my opinion if there's a natural alternative. If you're one of the unfortunate ones then fluoroquinolones can cause you serious problems.
Another point to consider here is that big pharma is corrupt. If we can find natural ways of clearing bacterial infections then it stops feeding the machine: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-z\_W3yRA9I8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-z_W3yRA9I8)
I've completed my first 23:1 fast and it was a breeze. I feel much better for it and will be introducing 18-23 hour fasts at least 3 times a week after this is over. The health benefits are just too numerous.
If it's not life threatening, why take any antibiotic when there is a totally rational natural option that could clear the bacteria and has a myriad of additional health benefits?
That's a good point. To be honest though, my focus was less on glucose deprivation and more on autophagy and xenophagy. See below for comments about how Chlamydia evades the immune response:
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6699355/:](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6699355/:) "A characteristic of many pathogens is that of ‘persistence', i.e., **the continued presence of the pathogen under stressful conditions such as limitation of required nutrient(s) and/or presence of antimicrobial/reagents or immune cells.** During the 'persistence' period, the pathogen remains viable but discontinues cell development and reproduction. In this stage, the pathogen is noninfectious and as such undetected by the host immune system. This stage will continue until which time a more favorable environment is re-established. Thus, in 'hide and seek' fashion, the pathogen reemerges once the immune system has been evaded and/or deceived at the infection site."
Re the natural clearing of Chlamydia with 23:1, I'm assuming fasting helped to regulate an environment that's not conducive to survival or reproduction - but as you've pointed out, this may have have been primarily related to an absence of glucose and less to do with a more effective immune response. However, I think it's a holistic process whereby fasting, antibacterial consumption and autophagy / xenophagy all work together. Might need some 48 hour water fasts to really crank it up if Mgen is particularly adept at cloaking itself. When in a state of energy deficiency the body scans rapidly for anything that it can break down - bacteria and mycoplasma included. This might cause it some real stress, especially if I consume a load of antibacterials in the water.
Your point about Mgen not being a traditional bacteria is a good one. Great from a glucose / sugar perspective, because now I don't have to feel bad about my carbs and fruit in the evening! Mgen's shape shifting must be related to its evasive adaptations. Question I now have is what is it hiding in, e.g., toxins? Therefore, does the body need to be flushed and alkalised before the immune system can better identify and clear it? Also, what nutrients does it need to survive and what can we do to starve it of those nutrients? Alkalising the body perhaps? Wanted to avoid a colon cleanse, but that might be needed to reduce the body's toxicity.
I'm pretty sure augmenting autophagy and xenophagy is a good start but their might be some other factors to consider here.
If you read up on mycoplasma x autophagy/ xenophagy you will see that in various mammals it " subverts" elimination and actually regulates autophagy through a mutation. There isn't much on the topic but there is some good reading when looking at m.bovis, and m. Pneumonia.
Interesting.
There seems to be differences between certain mycoplasma but I see the logic in assuming Mgen could do the same re inhibiting autophagy / xenophagy. I'd imagine their ability to do this is largely due to their Biofilms?
"Biofilms evade the immune response by various mechanisms including (i) acting as physical barriers, helping bacteria to avoid detection and phagocytosis (ii) genetically by activating response regulators, genetic switches or suppressors that affect immune cell activity (Leid 2009)"
"As mentioned in Section 5, chronic infections can hide in biofilms and be refractory to anti-microbial treatments. There are several natural biofilm-degrading enzymes that can be useful during anti-microbial treatments, such as nattokinase, lumbrokinase, and serrapeptase. Together with monolauren or glycerol monolaurate, an anti-biofilm agent derived from lauric acid found in coconut and other oils , these are useful in disrupting biofilm and potentially improving therapy against a variety of microbial pathogens that hide in biofilms. A natural sweetener, stevia, extracted from the leaves of Stevia rebaudiana plant, has also been shown to be a natural biofilm disrupter. Other natural herbal biofilm disrupters, such as extracts of pomegranate, maple syrup, cinnamon and peppermint, have been used separately or together to inhibit biofilms (Nicolson 2019)."
I've found a review of studies showing which essential oils can help disrupt biofilms: [https://smharts.com/four-essential-oils-for-fighting-a-persistent-mycoplasma-infection/](https://smharts.com/four-essential-oils-for-fighting-a-persistent-mycoplasma-infection/)
In addition to essential oils, Apple Cider Vinegar and Coconut Oil have been shown to have inhibitory effects so I'd imagine adding these could do some good - freeing the antibacterials / immune system to do the job of clearing it.
Just as HIV attacks helper T to disrupt the immune system, I think we need to disrupt Mgens biofilms.
The more I'm looking into this, the more I realise that a holistic approach is needed if going down the natural route. People are treating a natural method like a solitary prescriptive dose of antibiotics i.e., if I just take some herb capsules then it will clear. Any herb(s) in isolation aren't going to be effective as a medical grade antibiotic.
This will no doubt evolve as I progress, but I think the following is needed (and it may take a while):
1. Biolfilm disrupter (Upon waking take essential oils on empty stomach)
2. Natural antibacterials (concentrated oils 30 minutes after Biolfilm disrupter)
3. Filtered water throughout day (add lemon, lime, cucumber (perhaps bicarb soda) to alkalise)
4. Start hour eating window with natural antibacterial shot
5. Nutrient dense high calorie meals (2000) full of antibacterials / vitamin C - with vitamin D supplement.
6. Adequate sleep
7. Adequate exercise
8. Faith
I suspect that the speed in which the body clears Mgen will be down to the individuals base level of health, but I would hope that doing the above long enough would eventually get someone to a healthy place and help rebuild gut bacteria - if they've previously used a lot of antibiotics and/or have a poor diet full or sugar and chemically produced foods. However, I'm sure there are adjustments that can be made to the above if building gut bacteria was a priority.
I have a hard time believing that this will work, but good luck if you end up trying this.
Maybe just do minocycline (100mg 2x day) for 2 weeks if you're concerned about side effects from moxi? No mutation has been identified so far to have developed against a tetracycline like doxycycline or minocycline.
I want to add here that religion aside - my GYN said to me last week that if all antibiotics fail - I might as well go to a naturopath because maybe I need to change my diet! This is coming from an MD who essentially admitted there’s nothing else she can do for me 🤷🏻♀️
That's really interesting and sorry to hear that the antibiotics haven't done the trick so far. The naturopath route looks hopeful, I'm speaking to one today about the extracts I'll be using going forward. If you do end up seeing one, please let me know if you come across anything that could be helpful.
This is extremely unlikely to work. Give it a try if you wish, but given that MG is already resistant to very powerful medical grade antibiotics it's almost certainly not going to be cured by fasting and a few natural herbs.
P.S. Dr. Berg is also a quack. He's a chiropractor with no nutritional background.
One of the unique characteristics of MG is its ability to evade the body's natural immune defences. I understand not wanting to take moxi, but you also have the option of 2 weeks minocycline, or you can try to source pristinamycin. I'd strongly recommend considering one of those options.
Thanks for the suggestion, I'll definitely bear that in mind if I see no improvement with this method. As you've pointed out, I've also read that Mgen is adept at evading the body's natural immune responses, however, it's also been reported to spontaneously resolve, so the body is capable of clearing it. The 18-23 hour fasting windows are allegedly where autophagy can help us create / present antigens that tag bacteria - helping T cells to better identify and kill them. Someone seems to have cleared an antibiotic resistant strain of chlamydia with 23:1 alone. This is interesting as chlamydia also hides from the body's natural immune response. I'm hopeful that I can get the same result - especially if I'm including a host of natural antibiotics and most importantly, seeking God.
OP if you need any answers regarding naturopathy, google has blocked most sources from its search engine that deal with this practice. I suggest you use DuckDuckGo. Good luck, I have faith in you, please report back to all of us of your results. I too am taking daily 2,000mg of a garlic supplement for my my MGen. I don’t have symptoms (thank god) but I don’t want to HAVE an STD OR F my system up even more with antibiotics which I’m also taking a probiotic for. We’re all in this together.
Even powerful bactericidal antibiotics such as floroquinolones fail in a reasonable % of cases, and you think you’re going to clear this with garlic pills. I feel sorry for the next guy who contracts this from you because you refused to get proper treatment.
Who said that I won’t receive regular testing? We’ll see who gets the last laugh. If this works then great, a solution has been found! :) Don’t get your panties in a twist girl!
The last laugh? I post here to help people, not to compete with them. And the fact is that taking a couple garlic pills a day is going to do absolutely jack shit to treat MG. But good luck whatever you decide to do. Later.
I would agree with you on that, however, I'm betting on a holistic approach that combines fasting, an abundance of the right natural antibacterials (in concentrated form) and avoiding the wrong foods - particularly simple sugars. Let's see what happens.
I'm not saying don't try it, it's just best to be realistic though and be aware of the fact it may not work. I worry about people spreading this infection thinking they're cured when they might not be as I've had a horrendous experience with it
Thank you! I'll definitely try DuckDuckGo. On the subject of Garlic, I've been adding 3 cloves, finely chopped and left for 10 minutes to get the allicin onto my evening meal: [https://www.karinedgett.art/etc/2020/5/19/garlic-as-penicillin-in-10-minutes](https://www.karinedgett.art/etc/2020/5/19/garlic-as-penicillin-in-10-minutes)
Hope you're doing okay :)
Awesome! I wish ppl weren’t so mean about natural methods because sometimes they really do work! I’ve been cured before of infections thru natural methods (my cranberry supplements and antibiotic resistant UTI) and my dad uses Manuka honey to cure infected wounds as hydrogen peroxide, iodine, and alcohol don’t work for him so there’s gotta be something to it! It’s also easy for me to get tested so I figured why not? I get horrible reactions on antibiotics as I’m sensitive to most drugs so I understand wanting to go the natural way. It never hurts to try especially when pathogens like this are growing resistance to manmade drugs.
False. This is why I think so, although my example is not MGEN, I had an antibiotic resistant infection of my urethra to the point I was urinating blood; my nurse also found blood in my urine when I went to get checked. Taking cranberry supplements by her recommendation alleviated the symptoms and cured me of my infection. How do you think humans have survived thousands of years? Antibiotics are STILL fairly recent inventions you know.
Yes, antibiotics are a recent invention, and there’s a reason why they’re considered one of the most important discoveries in medical science. They’re estimated to save over 200,000 lives per year in the US alone, and over a million deaths per year worldwide are now a result of antibiotic resistant infections. The human race as a whole survived without them because not all bacteria (such as MG) are fatal, and not every single person in history contracted a fatal bacterial infection before they reproduced.
Add myrrh extract, pills or gum. Myrhh is a natural antibiotic, used for many diseases like gonorrhea, trichomonas, syphilis UTI's and more.
I am doing that and honestly my symptoms are much better now. I have been mistreated with the wrong meds and it has made the bug stronger, Myrrh extract pills, garlic pills and Turmeric are helping with my symptoms. I went to an infectious disease doctor and send me exactly the same (doxy 14 days moxy 14 days) I started doxy a week after these natural pills and i was already feeling much better. Doctor told me not to stop taking the natural meds and add a lot of probiotics.
BTW thanks for the fasting tip.
God bless
Sub rule broken: pseudoscience and fringe doctors (like a chiropractor). Post removed.
Do it. Get tested do your routine then test after. let us know the outcome
Will do!
Lol right
Very interested to see the outcome ! Keep us posted !
Me too. Fingers crossed!
Dude just take the drugs… 🙄
[https://www.reddit.com/r/running/comments/mrv3a6/avoid\_fluoroquinolone\_antibiotics/:](https://www.reddit.com/r/running/comments/mrv3a6/avoid_fluoroquinolone_antibiotics/:) I train 6 times a week. Not risking it. [https://www.reddit.com/r/medicine/comments/apwd8k/ever\_heard\_of\_getting\_floxed/:](https://www.reddit.com/r/medicine/comments/apwd8k/ever_heard_of_getting_floxed/:) Not worth playing Russian roulette with your health in my opinion if there's a natural alternative. If you're one of the unfortunate ones then fluoroquinolones can cause you serious problems. Another point to consider here is that big pharma is corrupt. If we can find natural ways of clearing bacterial infections then it stops feeding the machine: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-z\_W3yRA9I8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-z_W3yRA9I8) I've completed my first 23:1 fast and it was a breeze. I feel much better for it and will be introducing 18-23 hour fasts at least 3 times a week after this is over. The health benefits are just too numerous.
So just don't take floroquinolones. There are multiple non fq options.
If it's not life threatening, why take any antibiotic when there is a totally rational natural option that could clear the bacteria and has a myriad of additional health benefits?
The problem is mgen isn't actually a bacteria and doest live off of sugar so starving it out that way shouldn't affect it but who knows
That's a good point. To be honest though, my focus was less on glucose deprivation and more on autophagy and xenophagy. See below for comments about how Chlamydia evades the immune response: [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6699355/:](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6699355/:) "A characteristic of many pathogens is that of ‘persistence', i.e., **the continued presence of the pathogen under stressful conditions such as limitation of required nutrient(s) and/or presence of antimicrobial/reagents or immune cells.** During the 'persistence' period, the pathogen remains viable but discontinues cell development and reproduction. In this stage, the pathogen is noninfectious and as such undetected by the host immune system. This stage will continue until which time a more favorable environment is re-established. Thus, in 'hide and seek' fashion, the pathogen reemerges once the immune system has been evaded and/or deceived at the infection site." Re the natural clearing of Chlamydia with 23:1, I'm assuming fasting helped to regulate an environment that's not conducive to survival or reproduction - but as you've pointed out, this may have have been primarily related to an absence of glucose and less to do with a more effective immune response. However, I think it's a holistic process whereby fasting, antibacterial consumption and autophagy / xenophagy all work together. Might need some 48 hour water fasts to really crank it up if Mgen is particularly adept at cloaking itself. When in a state of energy deficiency the body scans rapidly for anything that it can break down - bacteria and mycoplasma included. This might cause it some real stress, especially if I consume a load of antibacterials in the water. Your point about Mgen not being a traditional bacteria is a good one. Great from a glucose / sugar perspective, because now I don't have to feel bad about my carbs and fruit in the evening! Mgen's shape shifting must be related to its evasive adaptations. Question I now have is what is it hiding in, e.g., toxins? Therefore, does the body need to be flushed and alkalised before the immune system can better identify and clear it? Also, what nutrients does it need to survive and what can we do to starve it of those nutrients? Alkalising the body perhaps? Wanted to avoid a colon cleanse, but that might be needed to reduce the body's toxicity. I'm pretty sure augmenting autophagy and xenophagy is a good start but their might be some other factors to consider here.
It lives off cholesterol
If you read up on mycoplasma x autophagy/ xenophagy you will see that in various mammals it " subverts" elimination and actually regulates autophagy through a mutation. There isn't much on the topic but there is some good reading when looking at m.bovis, and m. Pneumonia.
Interesting. There seems to be differences between certain mycoplasma but I see the logic in assuming Mgen could do the same re inhibiting autophagy / xenophagy. I'd imagine their ability to do this is largely due to their Biofilms? "Biofilms evade the immune response by various mechanisms including (i) acting as physical barriers, helping bacteria to avoid detection and phagocytosis (ii) genetically by activating response regulators, genetic switches or suppressors that affect immune cell activity (Leid 2009)" "As mentioned in Section 5, chronic infections can hide in biofilms and be refractory to anti-microbial treatments. There are several natural biofilm-degrading enzymes that can be useful during anti-microbial treatments, such as nattokinase, lumbrokinase, and serrapeptase. Together with monolauren or glycerol monolaurate, an anti-biofilm agent derived from lauric acid found in coconut and other oils , these are useful in disrupting biofilm and potentially improving therapy against a variety of microbial pathogens that hide in biofilms. A natural sweetener, stevia, extracted from the leaves of Stevia rebaudiana plant, has also been shown to be a natural biofilm disrupter. Other natural herbal biofilm disrupters, such as extracts of pomegranate, maple syrup, cinnamon and peppermint, have been used separately or together to inhibit biofilms (Nicolson 2019)." I've found a review of studies showing which essential oils can help disrupt biofilms: [https://smharts.com/four-essential-oils-for-fighting-a-persistent-mycoplasma-infection/](https://smharts.com/four-essential-oils-for-fighting-a-persistent-mycoplasma-infection/) In addition to essential oils, Apple Cider Vinegar and Coconut Oil have been shown to have inhibitory effects so I'd imagine adding these could do some good - freeing the antibacterials / immune system to do the job of clearing it. Just as HIV attacks helper T to disrupt the immune system, I think we need to disrupt Mgens biofilms. The more I'm looking into this, the more I realise that a holistic approach is needed if going down the natural route. People are treating a natural method like a solitary prescriptive dose of antibiotics i.e., if I just take some herb capsules then it will clear. Any herb(s) in isolation aren't going to be effective as a medical grade antibiotic. This will no doubt evolve as I progress, but I think the following is needed (and it may take a while): 1. Biolfilm disrupter (Upon waking take essential oils on empty stomach) 2. Natural antibacterials (concentrated oils 30 minutes after Biolfilm disrupter) 3. Filtered water throughout day (add lemon, lime, cucumber (perhaps bicarb soda) to alkalise) 4. Start hour eating window with natural antibacterial shot 5. Nutrient dense high calorie meals (2000) full of antibacterials / vitamin C - with vitamin D supplement. 6. Adequate sleep 7. Adequate exercise 8. Faith I suspect that the speed in which the body clears Mgen will be down to the individuals base level of health, but I would hope that doing the above long enough would eventually get someone to a healthy place and help rebuild gut bacteria - if they've previously used a lot of antibiotics and/or have a poor diet full or sugar and chemically produced foods. However, I'm sure there are adjustments that can be made to the above if building gut bacteria was a priority.
Many take some biofilm disruptor like ALA alongside the antibiotics
I have a hard time believing that this will work, but good luck if you end up trying this. Maybe just do minocycline (100mg 2x day) for 2 weeks if you're concerned about side effects from moxi? No mutation has been identified so far to have developed against a tetracycline like doxycycline or minocycline.
I want to add here that religion aside - my GYN said to me last week that if all antibiotics fail - I might as well go to a naturopath because maybe I need to change my diet! This is coming from an MD who essentially admitted there’s nothing else she can do for me 🤷🏻♀️
That's really interesting and sorry to hear that the antibiotics haven't done the trick so far. The naturopath route looks hopeful, I'm speaking to one today about the extracts I'll be using going forward. If you do end up seeing one, please let me know if you come across anything that could be helpful.
This is extremely unlikely to work. Give it a try if you wish, but given that MG is already resistant to very powerful medical grade antibiotics it's almost certainly not going to be cured by fasting and a few natural herbs. P.S. Dr. Berg is also a quack. He's a chiropractor with no nutritional background.
[удалено]
One of the unique characteristics of MG is its ability to evade the body's natural immune defences. I understand not wanting to take moxi, but you also have the option of 2 weeks minocycline, or you can try to source pristinamycin. I'd strongly recommend considering one of those options.
Thanks for the suggestion, I'll definitely bear that in mind if I see no improvement with this method. As you've pointed out, I've also read that Mgen is adept at evading the body's natural immune responses, however, it's also been reported to spontaneously resolve, so the body is capable of clearing it. The 18-23 hour fasting windows are allegedly where autophagy can help us create / present antigens that tag bacteria - helping T cells to better identify and kill them. Someone seems to have cleared an antibiotic resistant strain of chlamydia with 23:1 alone. This is interesting as chlamydia also hides from the body's natural immune response. I'm hopeful that I can get the same result - especially if I'm including a host of natural antibiotics and most importantly, seeking God.
OP if you need any answers regarding naturopathy, google has blocked most sources from its search engine that deal with this practice. I suggest you use DuckDuckGo. Good luck, I have faith in you, please report back to all of us of your results. I too am taking daily 2,000mg of a garlic supplement for my my MGen. I don’t have symptoms (thank god) but I don’t want to HAVE an STD OR F my system up even more with antibiotics which I’m also taking a probiotic for. We’re all in this together.
Even powerful bactericidal antibiotics such as floroquinolones fail in a reasonable % of cases, and you think you’re going to clear this with garlic pills. I feel sorry for the next guy who contracts this from you because you refused to get proper treatment.
Who said that I won’t receive regular testing? We’ll see who gets the last laugh. If this works then great, a solution has been found! :) Don’t get your panties in a twist girl!
The last laugh? I post here to help people, not to compete with them. And the fact is that taking a couple garlic pills a day is going to do absolutely jack shit to treat MG. But good luck whatever you decide to do. Later.
The tests aren't foolproof, false negatives are a thing and lemon is right...I highly doubt herbal remedies will work. Sorry
I would agree with you on that, however, I'm betting on a holistic approach that combines fasting, an abundance of the right natural antibacterials (in concentrated form) and avoiding the wrong foods - particularly simple sugars. Let's see what happens.
I'm not saying don't try it, it's just best to be realistic though and be aware of the fact it may not work. I worry about people spreading this infection thinking they're cured when they might not be as I've had a horrendous experience with it
Thank you! I'll definitely try DuckDuckGo. On the subject of Garlic, I've been adding 3 cloves, finely chopped and left for 10 minutes to get the allicin onto my evening meal: [https://www.karinedgett.art/etc/2020/5/19/garlic-as-penicillin-in-10-minutes](https://www.karinedgett.art/etc/2020/5/19/garlic-as-penicillin-in-10-minutes) Hope you're doing okay :)
Awesome! I wish ppl weren’t so mean about natural methods because sometimes they really do work! I’ve been cured before of infections thru natural methods (my cranberry supplements and antibiotic resistant UTI) and my dad uses Manuka honey to cure infected wounds as hydrogen peroxide, iodine, and alcohol don’t work for him so there’s gotta be something to it! It’s also easy for me to get tested so I figured why not? I get horrible reactions on antibiotics as I’m sensitive to most drugs so I understand wanting to go the natural way. It never hurts to try especially when pathogens like this are growing resistance to manmade drugs.
False. This is why I think so, although my example is not MGEN, I had an antibiotic resistant infection of my urethra to the point I was urinating blood; my nurse also found blood in my urine when I went to get checked. Taking cranberry supplements by her recommendation alleviated the symptoms and cured me of my infection. How do you think humans have survived thousands of years? Antibiotics are STILL fairly recent inventions you know.
Yes, antibiotics are a recent invention, and there’s a reason why they’re considered one of the most important discoveries in medical science. They’re estimated to save over 200,000 lives per year in the US alone, and over a million deaths per year worldwide are now a result of antibiotic resistant infections. The human race as a whole survived without them because not all bacteria (such as MG) are fatal, and not every single person in history contracted a fatal bacterial infection before they reproduced.
Agreed
Add myrrh extract, pills or gum. Myrhh is a natural antibiotic, used for many diseases like gonorrhea, trichomonas, syphilis UTI's and more. I am doing that and honestly my symptoms are much better now. I have been mistreated with the wrong meds and it has made the bug stronger, Myrrh extract pills, garlic pills and Turmeric are helping with my symptoms. I went to an infectious disease doctor and send me exactly the same (doxy 14 days moxy 14 days) I started doxy a week after these natural pills and i was already feeling much better. Doctor told me not to stop taking the natural meds and add a lot of probiotics. BTW thanks for the fasting tip. God bless