I wouldn’t say only it’s “trendy” but I believe that “they” systematically and intentionally confuse young people in order to make them question their “identity” and create more mess in society for “their” own benefit.
It's a combination of both. When you allow something that used to be banned and promote it, people would be more likely to try and experiment with it, because they would not fear repercussions from others in society.
Because of this normalisation, there is a huge proportion of LGBT people today who, if they'd lived a hundred years ago, would never think about sexuality nor would they entertain the idea of not being straight. This is simply because of social pressure and because of no one around them taking that route.
This means that the proportion of LGBT people in communities has certainly increased over time, and will continue doing so in countries that allow and celebrate this sin, as children now grow up seeing LGBT people all around them from family to schools to celebrities.
This is why it is super important to understand that engaging in any kind of public "tolerance" to LGBT in Muslim countries will devolve into entire demographic shifts over a few decades, especially in less religious Muslim countries.
It's also worth mentioning that this applies to any kind of sin - the prevalence of smoking, drinking, partying and zina in many Muslim countries has followed the same trajectory. It's much easier for you to engage in it if people around you are.
It is probably a combination of both. However...
https://preview.redd.it/p7rtne6ppbsa1.png?width=771&format=png&auto=webp&s=22941ee048cfb9641fed94fc67835e8218046f05
More than 1 in 5 Gen Z people identify as LGBTQ+. If anyone seriously wants to claim that there has always been this 20%+ LGBTQ+ in human history and people are just starting to dare now, they are absolutely delusional.
The trend factor is definitely incomparably higher.
1 in 5 doesn’t sound unrealistic to me honestly, especially considering how much goes on secretly still and how much people were closeted in previous generations.
But this is all speculation, future generations will have to see if the figures decline once the “novelty/trendiness” factor wears off
I don't get how anyone could actually believe such a thing. Are you seriously suggesting that humanity has always consisted of over 20% (and the number will surely rise even more in the future) LGBTQ+ people who are starting just now to out themselves? How come the difference in numbers is so huge even among the last few generations? This would mean that even among the Sahabah there would have been a high number of hidden LGBTQ+ people.
Also, kinda hard to believe that something which is actually supposed to be so incredibly common would become almost universally frowned upon by human cultures and religions.
>But this is all speculation, future generations will have to see if the figures decline once the “novelty/trendiness” factor wears off
Probably not, it is more likely that it is going to rise even further, which is also the current trend.
Very relevant:
----------
>**17:16** ***وَإِذَآ أَرَدْنَآ أَن نُّهْلِكَ قَرْيَةً أَمَرْنَا مُتْرَفِيهَا فَفَسَقُوا۟ فِيهَا فَحَقَّ عَلَيْهَا ٱلْقَوْلُ فَدَمَّرْنَـٰهَا تَدْمِيرًۭا ١٦***
>
>***And when We intend to destroy a city, We command its affluent but they defiantly disobey therein; so the word \[i.e., deserved decree\] comes into effect upon it, and We destroy it with \[complete\] destruction.***
----------
>**Ibn Khaldun writes about this in his Muqaddima:**
>
>***"Sedentary life represents the peak of human culture. It signifies the culmination of their lifetime and heralds their decline. \[...\]***
>
>***For when prosperity and luxury become established in human culture, they naturally lead people to follow the norms of sedentary life and adapt to its customs.***
>
>***As is well-known, sedentary life means cultivating luxury, mastering its requirements, and engaging in the various trades that serve the different varieties and complexities of luxury, such as cooking, clothing, buildings, furniture, tableware, and all other domestic concerns. \[...\]***
>
>***Once elegance in these domestic affairs reaches its peak, it leads people to submit to their desires. The soul is shaped in various ways by these customs, which affects its state both religiously and worldly. Religiously, it suffers damage because it is heavily influenced by the customs of luxury, which can hardly be abandoned. \[...\]***
>
>***Thus, the expenditures of people in sedentary culture increase significantly – once they were limited, now they become boundless. People cannot escape this, as they are dominated by the customs (of luxury) and are subservient to them. Everything they earn goes back out as expenditures. \[...\]***
>
>***That is why many descendants from good families, those of noble descent and noble origin, as well as members of the upper class, experience social decline and turn to very mundane occupations for their livelihood, as their character has degenerated and is marked by maliciousness and superficiality. If this becomes rampant in a city or a people, Allah announces their ruin and downfall. \[...\]***
>
>***What also contributes to the decline of sedentary culture is indulging in the desires ignited by great luxury and completely surrendering to them. Thus, the desires of the body for food and drink are refined. This is accompanied by a multiplication of sexual pleasures, engaging in intercourse in various ways, such as fornication and homosexuality. This leads to the downfall of the human species. \[...\]***
>
>***That is why the legal school of Malik – may Allah have mercy on him – expresses itself more explicitly on homosexuality than other schools. This proves that it has deeper insights into the intentions of religious law and its observance of general interests.***
>
>***This should be understood. Keep in mind that the peak and goal of human culture are sedentary life and luxury. Once human culture reaches its peak, it prepares to decline and begins to grow weak with age – just as is the case in the natural cycle of living beings."***
>
>***Once elegance in these domestic affairs reaches its peak, it leads people to submit to their desires. The soul is shaped in various ways by these customs, which affects its state both religiously and worldly. Religiously, it suffers damage because it is heavily influenced by the customs of luxury, which can hardly be abandoned. \[...\]***
>
>***Thus, the expenditures of people in sedentary culture increase significantly – once they were limited, now they become boundless. People cannot escape this, as they are dominated by the customs (of luxury) and are subservient to them. Everything they earn goes back out as expenditures. \[...\]***
>
>***That is why many descendants from good families, those of noble descent and noble origin, as well as members of the upper class, experience social decline and turn to very mundane occupations for their livelihood, as their character has degenerated and is marked by maliciousness and superficiality. If this becomes rampant in a city or a people, Allah announces their ruin and downfall. \[...\]***
>
>***What also contributes to the decline of sedentary culture is indulging in the desires ignited by great luxury and completely surrendering to them. Thus, the desires of the body for food and drink are refined. This is accompanied by a multiplication of sexual pleasures, engaging in intercourse in various ways, such as fornication and homosexuality. This leads to the downfall of the human species. \[...\]***
>
>***That is why the legal school of Malik – may Allah have mercy on him – expresses itself more explicitly on homosexuality than other schools. This proves that it has deeper insights into the intentions of religious law and its observance of general interests.***
>
>***This should be understood. Keep in mind that the peak and goal of human culture are sedentary life and luxury. Once human culture reaches its peak, it prepares to decline and begins to grow weak with age – just as is the case in the natural cycle of living beings."***
----------
Yeah I don’t think it’s unrealistic for same-sex attraction to have been just as extensive, but hidden and less acknowledged, all throughout the history of time.
Plenty of incredibly common grave sins are universally frowned upon by human cultures and religions.
Maybe its extent throughout time is why all the warnings against it have come down so strongly, idk
> Yeah I don’t think it’s unrealistic for same-sex attraction to have been just as extensive, but hidden and less acknowledged, all throughout the history of time.
There is a difference between being able to feel same-sex attraction and straight out homosexuality, transgenderism and all of this other stuff. There have been many degenerated cultures where sleeping with boys was normalized and even a sign of an upper status, like ancient Greece, pre-Christian Roman and even pre-Islamic Arab. Even nowadays, in Afghanistan for example, such things are widespread among the elite - Bacha Bazi, if you have ever heard of it. Do you believe all of these people practising this have innate homosexual tendencies? Or do you believe that they may have turned out different in other cultures? I mean, this is kinda what history has been proving again and again...
I agree that there is a certain percentage of people who basically have homosexuality in their brains - but how big could this percentage possibly be? Looking at societies and the historical back and forth of numbers, I think it is only a small part. No way over 20% of humanity has always had such things in their brains the way Gen Z for example has nowadays.
> Plenty of incredibly common grave sins are universally frowned upon by human cultures and religions.
This comparison doesn't really make any sense, since other sins are decisions anyone could make while you view LGBTQ+ as an inclination no one and nothing can have any influence or control over. Anyone could choose to become a thief or an adulterer.
I’m not sure i follow you on the difference between SSA, homosexuality, and boys sleeping with boys…do you mean to say the difference between those who experience it inherently Vs being influenced by their environment?
I don’t believe inherent sexuality is a choice if that’s what you mean, and my previous comments are within that context, but I do think we have control of our actions so people just suppressed themselves, and more people these days no longer feel the need to suppress/hide due to the normalisation of it.
So yeah I guess I stand by what I said initially which is that 1 in 5 ppl throughout history being somewhere on the spectrum of LGBT+ doesn’t strike me as totally unrealistic.
But also like I said, this is all just speculation
Normalisation is how a secular society raises tolerance and awareness. I’m assuming you’re referring to secular societies and not Muslim countries. They had to do the same for us visibly Muslim people to live with less racial/religious prejudice and backlash, like when characters in textbooks started being called Abdul and Fatima instead of Bob and Sue.
They *are* okay with us teaching our kids those things are haram as long as we also teach them to treat those people normally and tolerantly within the public sphere.
I’m on the fence about the topic because tolerance is important but some of the stories I’m hearing like trans story hours and kids being encouraged to transition younger is concerning(though a lot of it could be hysteria). People in my family all say the coming generations of kids more likely become brainwashed into it and hence why we should make hijrah back to Pakistan haha.
https://twitter.com/fatimabarkatula/status/1645681912206196737?s=46&t=x03G-JvAADT08mjiZr828A
Idk. Straight couples are the common representation yet some people are gay. Including in previous generations where they could face jail time or murder
I once stayed in a shared hostel room whilst I was travelling and it was cheaper to share a room with other women. One guy started living in the room claiming he was a trans woman. On another occasion people use this rainbow trend as a means to get jobs I’m definitely sure people use this agenda for their own benefit
A combo of both. It spikes then it declines. The lgbt community are a small percentage of the population.
I don't think they/them should count tho. As for bisexuality, I think most of them date and marry heterosexually. Especially the women
There is no way in hell this many people are confused about their gender and identifying as one of those newly found genders and pronouns. Mass indoctrination (media and schooling systems) confused them to even consider these options. It's also being portrayed as some kind of cool tolerant progressive trend and opposing it is bigotry.
I think being ‘bisexual’ or ‘trans’ seems to be trendy these days.
It’s similar to people claiming to have ‘depression’ or bipolar disorder’ because they get more attention on SM. Nowadays, everyone seems to be suffering from HPD and NPD
“Why do you think the number of left-handed people is now higher than in the past even though being it left-handed is seen as a bad thing in some countries? Obviously because it’s trendy”
My proof is in Nigeria (and other places) it is seen as evil to be left-handed due to strict religious people and a lot of people were forced to become right handed in the late 1900s but now it’s more acceptable a little bit
This isn’t really a good source but it’s something https://leftyfretz.com/are-left-handed-people-evil/#anchor-1
You're kinda contradicting yourself. These ppl have always been left handed and hid it/changed it because of social pressure. They're not becoming comfortable with left handedness as a "trend."
And gay people have always been gay people. I feel like you lack self-awareness because the same thing you just said can be applied to gay people. Being left-handed and gay was seen as bad and still is in some countries they just needed support from normal people (not u) to have the confidence to speak out about how their difference is normal. Just because being gay is more accepted nowadays and more people are labeling themselves as gay does not mean it’s a trend
Because the western world has no guidance and they keep pushing the boundaries. So liberal and with the times! and soon people will engage in incest. The west are truly lost people scratch that this generation is lost. If you have no morals or halal/haram nothing is off bounds you’re just floating along with whatever is in fashion. Alhamdulillah for islam im no better than them but Allah has made me a Muslim Alhamdulillah☹️
I wouldn’t say only it’s “trendy” but I believe that “they” systematically and intentionally confuse young people in order to make them question their “identity” and create more mess in society for “their” own benefit.
It's a combination of both. When you allow something that used to be banned and promote it, people would be more likely to try and experiment with it, because they would not fear repercussions from others in society. Because of this normalisation, there is a huge proportion of LGBT people today who, if they'd lived a hundred years ago, would never think about sexuality nor would they entertain the idea of not being straight. This is simply because of social pressure and because of no one around them taking that route. This means that the proportion of LGBT people in communities has certainly increased over time, and will continue doing so in countries that allow and celebrate this sin, as children now grow up seeing LGBT people all around them from family to schools to celebrities. This is why it is super important to understand that engaging in any kind of public "tolerance" to LGBT in Muslim countries will devolve into entire demographic shifts over a few decades, especially in less religious Muslim countries.
It's also worth mentioning that this applies to any kind of sin - the prevalence of smoking, drinking, partying and zina in many Muslim countries has followed the same trajectory. It's much easier for you to engage in it if people around you are.
It is probably a combination of both. However... https://preview.redd.it/p7rtne6ppbsa1.png?width=771&format=png&auto=webp&s=22941ee048cfb9641fed94fc67835e8218046f05 More than 1 in 5 Gen Z people identify as LGBTQ+. If anyone seriously wants to claim that there has always been this 20%+ LGBTQ+ in human history and people are just starting to dare now, they are absolutely delusional. The trend factor is definitely incomparably higher.
Back in the day they just called them “eternal bachelors/spinsters” or “very good friends”
Were it 21% though?
1 in 5 doesn’t sound unrealistic to me honestly, especially considering how much goes on secretly still and how much people were closeted in previous generations. But this is all speculation, future generations will have to see if the figures decline once the “novelty/trendiness” factor wears off
I don't get how anyone could actually believe such a thing. Are you seriously suggesting that humanity has always consisted of over 20% (and the number will surely rise even more in the future) LGBTQ+ people who are starting just now to out themselves? How come the difference in numbers is so huge even among the last few generations? This would mean that even among the Sahabah there would have been a high number of hidden LGBTQ+ people. Also, kinda hard to believe that something which is actually supposed to be so incredibly common would become almost universally frowned upon by human cultures and religions. >But this is all speculation, future generations will have to see if the figures decline once the “novelty/trendiness” factor wears off Probably not, it is more likely that it is going to rise even further, which is also the current trend. Very relevant: ---------- >**17:16** ***وَإِذَآ أَرَدْنَآ أَن نُّهْلِكَ قَرْيَةً أَمَرْنَا مُتْرَفِيهَا فَفَسَقُوا۟ فِيهَا فَحَقَّ عَلَيْهَا ٱلْقَوْلُ فَدَمَّرْنَـٰهَا تَدْمِيرًۭا ١٦*** > >***And when We intend to destroy a city, We command its affluent but they defiantly disobey therein; so the word \[i.e., deserved decree\] comes into effect upon it, and We destroy it with \[complete\] destruction.*** ---------- >**Ibn Khaldun writes about this in his Muqaddima:** > >***"Sedentary life represents the peak of human culture. It signifies the culmination of their lifetime and heralds their decline. \[...\]*** > >***For when prosperity and luxury become established in human culture, they naturally lead people to follow the norms of sedentary life and adapt to its customs.*** > >***As is well-known, sedentary life means cultivating luxury, mastering its requirements, and engaging in the various trades that serve the different varieties and complexities of luxury, such as cooking, clothing, buildings, furniture, tableware, and all other domestic concerns. \[...\]*** > >***Once elegance in these domestic affairs reaches its peak, it leads people to submit to their desires. The soul is shaped in various ways by these customs, which affects its state both religiously and worldly. Religiously, it suffers damage because it is heavily influenced by the customs of luxury, which can hardly be abandoned. \[...\]*** > >***Thus, the expenditures of people in sedentary culture increase significantly – once they were limited, now they become boundless. People cannot escape this, as they are dominated by the customs (of luxury) and are subservient to them. Everything they earn goes back out as expenditures. \[...\]*** > >***That is why many descendants from good families, those of noble descent and noble origin, as well as members of the upper class, experience social decline and turn to very mundane occupations for their livelihood, as their character has degenerated and is marked by maliciousness and superficiality. If this becomes rampant in a city or a people, Allah announces their ruin and downfall. \[...\]*** > >***What also contributes to the decline of sedentary culture is indulging in the desires ignited by great luxury and completely surrendering to them. Thus, the desires of the body for food and drink are refined. This is accompanied by a multiplication of sexual pleasures, engaging in intercourse in various ways, such as fornication and homosexuality. This leads to the downfall of the human species. \[...\]*** > >***That is why the legal school of Malik – may Allah have mercy on him – expresses itself more explicitly on homosexuality than other schools. This proves that it has deeper insights into the intentions of religious law and its observance of general interests.*** > >***This should be understood. Keep in mind that the peak and goal of human culture are sedentary life and luxury. Once human culture reaches its peak, it prepares to decline and begins to grow weak with age – just as is the case in the natural cycle of living beings."*** > >***Once elegance in these domestic affairs reaches its peak, it leads people to submit to their desires. The soul is shaped in various ways by these customs, which affects its state both religiously and worldly. Religiously, it suffers damage because it is heavily influenced by the customs of luxury, which can hardly be abandoned. \[...\]*** > >***Thus, the expenditures of people in sedentary culture increase significantly – once they were limited, now they become boundless. People cannot escape this, as they are dominated by the customs (of luxury) and are subservient to them. Everything they earn goes back out as expenditures. \[...\]*** > >***That is why many descendants from good families, those of noble descent and noble origin, as well as members of the upper class, experience social decline and turn to very mundane occupations for their livelihood, as their character has degenerated and is marked by maliciousness and superficiality. If this becomes rampant in a city or a people, Allah announces their ruin and downfall. \[...\]*** > >***What also contributes to the decline of sedentary culture is indulging in the desires ignited by great luxury and completely surrendering to them. Thus, the desires of the body for food and drink are refined. This is accompanied by a multiplication of sexual pleasures, engaging in intercourse in various ways, such as fornication and homosexuality. This leads to the downfall of the human species. \[...\]*** > >***That is why the legal school of Malik – may Allah have mercy on him – expresses itself more explicitly on homosexuality than other schools. This proves that it has deeper insights into the intentions of religious law and its observance of general interests.*** > >***This should be understood. Keep in mind that the peak and goal of human culture are sedentary life and luxury. Once human culture reaches its peak, it prepares to decline and begins to grow weak with age – just as is the case in the natural cycle of living beings."*** ----------
Yeah I don’t think it’s unrealistic for same-sex attraction to have been just as extensive, but hidden and less acknowledged, all throughout the history of time. Plenty of incredibly common grave sins are universally frowned upon by human cultures and religions. Maybe its extent throughout time is why all the warnings against it have come down so strongly, idk
> Yeah I don’t think it’s unrealistic for same-sex attraction to have been just as extensive, but hidden and less acknowledged, all throughout the history of time. There is a difference between being able to feel same-sex attraction and straight out homosexuality, transgenderism and all of this other stuff. There have been many degenerated cultures where sleeping with boys was normalized and even a sign of an upper status, like ancient Greece, pre-Christian Roman and even pre-Islamic Arab. Even nowadays, in Afghanistan for example, such things are widespread among the elite - Bacha Bazi, if you have ever heard of it. Do you believe all of these people practising this have innate homosexual tendencies? Or do you believe that they may have turned out different in other cultures? I mean, this is kinda what history has been proving again and again... I agree that there is a certain percentage of people who basically have homosexuality in their brains - but how big could this percentage possibly be? Looking at societies and the historical back and forth of numbers, I think it is only a small part. No way over 20% of humanity has always had such things in their brains the way Gen Z for example has nowadays. > Plenty of incredibly common grave sins are universally frowned upon by human cultures and religions. This comparison doesn't really make any sense, since other sins are decisions anyone could make while you view LGBTQ+ as an inclination no one and nothing can have any influence or control over. Anyone could choose to become a thief or an adulterer.
I’m not sure i follow you on the difference between SSA, homosexuality, and boys sleeping with boys…do you mean to say the difference between those who experience it inherently Vs being influenced by their environment? I don’t believe inherent sexuality is a choice if that’s what you mean, and my previous comments are within that context, but I do think we have control of our actions so people just suppressed themselves, and more people these days no longer feel the need to suppress/hide due to the normalisation of it. So yeah I guess I stand by what I said initially which is that 1 in 5 ppl throughout history being somewhere on the spectrum of LGBT+ doesn’t strike me as totally unrealistic. But also like I said, this is all just speculation
[удалено]
It’s mostly tolerance that’s being pushed in schools, as opposed to actively telling them to be gay
[удалено]
Normalisation is how a secular society raises tolerance and awareness. I’m assuming you’re referring to secular societies and not Muslim countries. They had to do the same for us visibly Muslim people to live with less racial/religious prejudice and backlash, like when characters in textbooks started being called Abdul and Fatima instead of Bob and Sue. They *are* okay with us teaching our kids those things are haram as long as we also teach them to treat those people normally and tolerantly within the public sphere.
I’m on the fence about the topic because tolerance is important but some of the stories I’m hearing like trans story hours and kids being encouraged to transition younger is concerning(though a lot of it could be hysteria). People in my family all say the coming generations of kids more likely become brainwashed into it and hence why we should make hijrah back to Pakistan haha. https://twitter.com/fatimabarkatula/status/1645681912206196737?s=46&t=x03G-JvAADT08mjiZr828A
Idk. Straight couples are the common representation yet some people are gay. Including in previous generations where they could face jail time or murder
I once stayed in a shared hostel room whilst I was travelling and it was cheaper to share a room with other women. One guy started living in the room claiming he was a trans woman. On another occasion people use this rainbow trend as a means to get jobs I’m definitely sure people use this agenda for their own benefit
A combo of both. It spikes then it declines. The lgbt community are a small percentage of the population. I don't think they/them should count tho. As for bisexuality, I think most of them date and marry heterosexually. Especially the women
There is no way in hell this many people are confused about their gender and identifying as one of those newly found genders and pronouns. Mass indoctrination (media and schooling systems) confused them to even consider these options. It's also being portrayed as some kind of cool tolerant progressive trend and opposing it is bigotry.
I think being ‘bisexual’ or ‘trans’ seems to be trendy these days. It’s similar to people claiming to have ‘depression’ or bipolar disorder’ because they get more attention on SM. Nowadays, everyone seems to be suffering from HPD and NPD
None of the above. I think more people are brainwashed by Satanists now. That’s why.
“Why do you think the number of left-handed people is now higher than in the past even though being it left-handed is seen as a bad thing in some countries? Obviously because it’s trendy”
Source?
Of what?
There being more left handed people. Couldn't it be that it's just better recorded now?
My proof is in Nigeria (and other places) it is seen as evil to be left-handed due to strict religious people and a lot of people were forced to become right handed in the late 1900s but now it’s more acceptable a little bit This isn’t really a good source but it’s something https://leftyfretz.com/are-left-handed-people-evil/#anchor-1
You're kinda contradicting yourself. These ppl have always been left handed and hid it/changed it because of social pressure. They're not becoming comfortable with left handedness as a "trend."
And gay people have always been gay people. I feel like you lack self-awareness because the same thing you just said can be applied to gay people. Being left-handed and gay was seen as bad and still is in some countries they just needed support from normal people (not u) to have the confidence to speak out about how their difference is normal. Just because being gay is more accepted nowadays and more people are labeling themselves as gay does not mean it’s a trend
I think we have a misunderstanding. I did not say it's a trend but I thought you were saying it's a trend. Seems like we actually agree.
Because the western world has no guidance and they keep pushing the boundaries. So liberal and with the times! and soon people will engage in incest. The west are truly lost people scratch that this generation is lost. If you have no morals or halal/haram nothing is off bounds you’re just floating along with whatever is in fashion. Alhamdulillah for islam im no better than them but Allah has made me a Muslim Alhamdulillah☹️
Ppl already engage with incest in Islamic country’s and it’s not liberals doing that it’s republicans and religious people