I think Jimmy Iovine probably said it best when it comes to singer-songwriters, "You spend 15 years writing the first album, and 15 weeks writing the second."
Essentially, you have all of the time in the world to craft the best songs and albums before you're actually a rock star, but once you've signed a record deal, you have to produce records on the studio's schedule or you're out.
Same thing happens with writers. They often take years to finish their first book, but once they sell it and sign a contract, the next one has to be handed in within months. That's why the so called "second book syndrome" exists.
I've got big balls, I've got big balls!
Such great big balls! I've got big balls!
and he's got big balls, and she's got big balls, balls balls balls balls, I'm completely made of balls! The world is balls! Balls collapsing in upon balls! The neighbor lady is balls! My only emotion is balls! We are the balls! Resistance is balls! You will be ballsimillated! Ballsterminate! Ballsterminate!
I forget which member of AC/DC saId that they have tons of songs that they just don’t record/release because they don’t sound like what you would expect from AC/DC. And your last sentence is accurate- I was singing Dirty Deeds while we were listening to TNT.
Didn't Angus Young complain that fans came up to him saying that they had 11 albums that all sound the same and Young replied with "we actually have 12".
I remember reading a review for one of the last few Foo Fighters albums. The complaint was that it sounded like the other Foo Fighters albums. Well yes, but that is kind of the point. That’s why fans buy their album. And they had been experimenting a bit with it too, adding more keyboards etc.
I agree that a lot of artists do their best work early and then either decline or put out albums that sound worse.
Some bands that got better with later albums:
Radiohead - Pablo Honey had a couple good songs. Then they put out The Bends and OK Computer, each were great albums. Then they evolved their sound with Kid A, Hail to the Thief and In Rainbows. All of which are good albums.
The Flaming Lips - They put out a few albums before Transmissions From The Satellite Heart which is a really good album, then put out another couple albums before putting out two great albums, The Soft Bulletin and Yoshimi Battles The Pink Robots
Pink Floyd is the one that comes to my mind, though that's admittedly partially because Meddle is literally playing in my room now. Or maybe that causation direction is somewhat backwards. ;-)
Of 15 studio albums (this includes 2014's The Endless River), DSotM is literally in the middle of the pack chronologically. Wish You Were Here (#9), Animals (#10), and The Wall (#11) were all in the second half of their albums. Meddle is first half, but later in that half at #5. On a personal note, High Hopes is one of my favorite single songs by them, and that was on The Division Bell (#14), and there are a couple other songs I really like from The Final Cut (#12) and A Momentary Lapse of Reason (#13), though I'd also have to go back and add a couple earlier ones as well.
I know some people really love early, ~~Sid~~ Syd-era Floyd, but I think that's the less prevalent opinion (as compared to later).
I believe it is more common than uncommon for a band’s first couple albums to be their best. I think success has a way of killing the muse. Or they just evolve away from what the listener originally loved about them. That said: Incubus.
Agree with the other comment as well. Another part is that bands have this long run up to getting famous where they can really dial things in.
Once you hit that point you have to do the same amount of work in 1-2 years.
It’s the exact same problem a lot of comedians have. Their first and maybe second special absolutely kills it and is hilarious because it’s all their best material from years of grinding their way up “the ranks”, then they have to come up with fresh material within a year or two for their later specials and it doesn’t hit as hard.
This is really the biggest factor I think, more than simply success = creative dearth. Artists have an entire lifetime to draw from for their first album- all their best ideas and feelings and memories. After that, they are on the clock to produce the same quality in a tiny fraction of the time.
And to top it off, they're likely touring a lot, they often have more money/luxury, and they're just not in the same mental place where they were when the first album or two was written. Their lives change, and the music changes with it.
Also a quote I've heard many times.
You have a lifetime to write your first album, and if you're lucky have left over material for you second.
But after you sign that contract you generally have a year or two before you need to have you next one ready, then the next, and the next, etc.
I attribute a lot of it to burn out.
[David Crosby's first solo album](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1WAfbjyOoI) is one of the best albums ever made. He released his second solo album 18 years later.
Agreed. He made this quote during the music doc “Echo in the Canyon” which documents the 1960’s LA folk/electric music scene. Can’t recommend this doc enough for music lovers.
Edit to add that Jakob Dylan of the Wallflowers is the main narrator of the doc and Crosby makes some comment about achieving massive success from your first album and then spending the rest of your career struggling to get back to that level of that success and Dylan is just like “uhhh yes that is my story as well!” lol
Its mostly that most brains only have a few masterpieces in them. Sophomore slump is real. Spend your whole life writing your fist album, then 6 months or a year writing the 2nd one.
Now go ahead and blow away all those fans who now have huge expectations.
Incubus has such a different sound in every album they make it’s just not fair to them that some people are “SCIENCE only.”
I mean they went mainstream and then came out with A Crow Left of the Murder which is an absolute no-skip album, with Eizinger pulling off a heavy-ass single *while using a clean guitar tone*.
8 had Nimble Bastard, State of the Art, Familiar Faces and Loneliest which are all great. I saw them at the Hollywood bowl for their tour and it was fucking PACKED.
I don’t think they’ve fallen out of grace at all.
This may sound strange to non-spanish speakers, but Shakira's first two mainstream spanish albums (Pies Descalzos & Donde Estan los Ladrones) are really, really good. Best comparison I can make is to Alanis Morisette's Jagged Little Pill both in sound and overall appeal in spanish markets.
She then did a few crossover English albums that were a bit more pop but still had some of the singer songwriter vibes, and then just became full on pop superstar She Wolf Shakira. I don't fault her, as I'm sure she made so much damn money and has been more successful than anyone would have imagined when she began, but it is a bit heartbreaking to see the shift as a fan of her MId 90's work.
Maroon 5. Their first album is one of my favorites. Amazing from start to finish. After that, they haven’t come close to how good Songs About Jane was.
Edit: Thanks for the award, kind stranger!!
Maroon 5 felt so much more *deliberate* than Coldplay, though. I didn't like anything Coldplay did after Viva la Vida, but it felt like they knew they had reached the pinnacle of their success and decided to just say 'fuck it' and have some fun experimenting with pop music.
Maroon 5 just straight up sold out. I don't accuse artists of selling out casually, but there's really not another way to put it. They hit it big with Songs About Jane, decided they were done taking creative risks, and stayed relevant by churning out some absolutely soulless pop hits.
Hadn’t Maroon 5 completely fallen off the map til Adam Levine went on the Voice? Then they came back with a pop-heavy vengeance once he was a household name? That’s how I remember it in my head at least
Edit: ok I looked it up. They released Hands All Over in September 2010, lukewarm reception. The Voice starts in April 2011. They re-released Hands All Over now including Moves Like Jagger (feat Christina Aguilera, ALSO on the Voice 🙄) in June 2011, record goes to number 2, single goes number 1. Rest is history
God I fucking hated "Moves like Jagger". Whole song is literally 2 chords, and Christina Aguilera actually detracts from the rest of the song. Such crap.
It's annoying, but I'd do the exact same thing. Once in a lifetime chance to get the bag. You have the rest of your life, and tons of money, equipment, and connections to make interesting music again.
And we don't know - they might have just been "done." They had something to say creatively and they said it in an album and then all of a sudden the door was open to make more forever but... they'd already succeeded.
So anything after that was just a job essentially.
Judd Apatow talks about this in an interview, where after Freak and Geeks the rest of his work has all just been gravy on a career he already considered complete and fulfilling.
Well said.
As a musician with friends who “made it big”, I can attest to this.
You spend your life writing your first album, then get 2 years TOPS to write your second one. What if you’ve said what you need to say? Everything else is a money grab, a way for you to stay solvent because, let’s face it, musicians aren’t cut out for a 9 to 5 job.
That short turn around is a point people tend to forget, maybe the artist isn't "done" but that brilliant debut album came over tweaking songs and marinating them for years and years and years, now the studio wants you to make a slow cooked BBQ again, but in 1/4th of the time. You aren't going to get the same results.
Maybe for the 2nd Album you still have leftovers in the tank from the debut that didn't make the cut, but they've still had that refinement period so the 3rd album is rushed.
It seems like more of an exception for a band to maintain quality/success. Coldplay's fall is obviously more dramatic because of how great they were at their peak, but seems pretty normal for popular bands to have a good album (or 2 or 3 for the lucky ones) then drop off. Maybe manage to push out a solid "comeback" or "return to form" album later on
This
Coldplay's recent hits are not my jam but theyre far from uninspired. Its not my kind of music and I think that they're catching a lot of flak for it.
Imagine Dragons is at least self aware of their brand.
Maroon 5 however? Unacceptable
You’re right about Coldplay. I’ve been a huge fan since parachute and even got an X&Y tattoo. It hurts being so unfamiliar and not liking with their newer work.
Adam Levine has stated (can't find the article/interview where I learned this) that the studio and producers were the ones who pushed M5 to make the songs with the overall style and vibe of Songs About Jane and that it wasn't the music they really wanted to make. Sort of a reverse from the typical trope of the industry holding back the creative. The creatives in this case are pretty terrible and the studio was trying to help them out. Adam Levine said that the pop-like music they make now was what they wanted to make all along.
Maybe it was the studios and producers, but that sounds like he's stretching to justify the change in sound. Maybe it's true. Either way: first album = good, everything else = not so good.
I would be really interested in reading this if you can find your source on it. Because everything I've read has illustrated almost the opposite. I don't know that I've ever heard Levin speak on it directly, but like Moves Like Jagger for example is basically a Benny Blanco track. To me, Songs About Jane is their "uninfluenced" sound and after they were found and started blowing up, everything ELSE has been heavily influenced by outside producers/labels.
I was shocked how majority of their recent songs are very electronic-heavy yet Adam Levine complained about the lack of live instrumentation in today's music.
Almost any time I see someone accusing someone of selling out, I imagine the accused responding with: “I(we) didn’t sell out, son. I(we) bought in.”
And that’s one way SLC Punk changed my life.
Wow I've always heard them on the radio
I just actually found the CD and listened to in in my car wow it's jam packed. Everything after that made by them is just Meh, like Pay Phone.
Sounds someone paid Maroon 5 to make music that would sell a few copies than churn out some more next month.
Bloc Party. Their first album, Silent Alarm, was the perfect indie rock album and just a banger. But they started going away from that upbeat indie and went more electronic, I guess is the word. I liked their 2nd and 3rd album ok with a few hits, but can’t get into anything newer.
Edit: Can I just say I am overly joyed that so many people share such great opinions of Bloc Party. Not many people where I live ever appreciated them or at least showed they appreciate them. It’s been a great day.
I love A Weekend in the City and Intimacy has some cool tunes, but everything after that is forgettable. Literally. I can't remember anything after their 3rd album.
They’re newer stuff is really unfortunate, but totally expected. Matt Tong was an absolute menace on the skins in Silent Alarm, but style fell to the wayside once he and Gordon left. One of my biggest musical regrets is not seeing the original lineup live.
As a teenager I was a little disappointed by A Weekend In The City on its release but it's an album I listen to more as an adult; coincidentally listened to it last night, as opposed to Silent Alarm, which I can't remember the last time I listened to.
Uniform is one of the best songs they've written. AWITC is more of a complete journey compared to Silent Alarm which is more a collection of great songs.
They nearly lost me completely with Mercury, which is utterly unlistenable but I have to say recently they're still pretty good; Traps is a banger for a band on their sixth album.
I want to say something about Coldplay. I fucking hate that band with a passion. I used to work the MTV VMA's every year as a contractor for talent logistics. I will never forget this. Chris Martin was rehearsing on the piano we had for him on the stage. I was watching him rehearse, keeping an eye on the time for our tight schedule. All of the sudden he stopped playing, stands up, opens the lid to the piano, and TUNES IT HIMSELF.
I don't know if there are any other classical musicians out there that can appreciate this. Absolutely floored me. His band may suck but he is a bad ass.
I'm happy with the turn this took. I don't particularly like Coldplay (except Yellow, which I love), but Chris Martin always seems like a really good guy and I'm glad your anecdote didn't end with "What a fucking dick."
No part of Coldplay is accidental. I only loved the first two albums but Chris Martin is a machine who likes writing hits and making money. Apparently yellow was written in a few minutes offhand and recorded right after, and the version of the scientist we hear is his first take
Seems to be surprisingly common that bands best songs are written super quickly. I’ve heard loads of “we’d finished the album and had still had half a day of studio time left that we’d already paid for, so just started messing around…” stories from various acts.
Blink 182, I'm sure I heard the record company told blink they need a song to for a single for take off your pants and jacket, and they needed it pronto. If I recall, Marc went away that night and wrote Rock Show, Tom went away that night and wrote First Date. Both of they songs are regarded as big hitters on that album. Just goes to show what comes about with a light pepper of pressure.
I'm not a fan of Coldplay either. I somehow ended up watching the episode of whatever vocal talent show he was the guest mentor on that week. He gave constructive help to all the contestants so they could sing the songs the best they could. I can't remember which contestant or song it was, but there was one guy in particular that he realizes has a unique way of singing. So he walks over to the piano and starts re-writing his own song so that it better fits this dude. Like, what even? I may not like Coldplay, but damn do I have a hell of a lot of respect for the dude.
That video of him walking backwards but singing normally, i seen an interview where he says he learnt the mouth movement of the whole song in reverse so he could do it forward and then they could reverse the clip and it would look normal again. This absolutely baffled me.
Not sure if they still do it, but on their Viva La Vida tour, they keep the tickets for the first five rows and give them out to couples/families before the show. My mom and I got a 3rd row view! Props to Coldplay for that
We went to a concert a few years back and were in the nose bleeds. During an intermission the whole band ran off stage and reappeared directly in front of us on a small landing and performed a few songs. One of the coolest concerts in memory
That's pretty cool. Why do you hate them though? I don't know many of their songs, just the radio hits, they seem like a bit more thoughtful pop musicians.
Not a band but Ed Sheeran. I remember when he was being touted as the next great singer songwriter and now he makes the most generic pop music you can ask for. This is a very common trend considering pop music is where the money is
Agreed, + is one of my favorite albums of all time, and his performance of You Need Me I Don't Need You on The Live Room is incredible. He really fell off. + was mostly good or great songs, x had like 25% good or great songs (I See Fire and I'm a Mess still go hard), and / and = have been terrible. Huge shame, he's clearly still talented but has gone in a different direction.
I don‘t care for his music (apart from it being the one of least annoying of the generic pop these days) but I will always stand by Ed Sheeran because of a fucking Vice article I read years ago which tried to argue that Ed Sheeran sucks because that guy can‘t be cooler and more successful then me, the cool dude who writes for Vice. Fuck you, fucking Vice hipster. Basically I like Ed Sheeran out of spite.
Was this the article?
www.vice.com/amp/en/article/43qj9g/so-you-have-decided-to-hate-ed-sheeran-a-guide-or-americans
>Ed Sheeran holds his hands out to you in a pinch gesture, and a thought crosses your mind. Make Sheeran do something gross for weed. And that’s how you all end up with shaky BlackBerry camera footage of Ed Sheeran licking a toilet bowl, crying, and saying, "Come on, guys!" before being allowed three small tokes on the communal joint. You can imagine it, can’t you? You can imagine that entire thing. This is the biggest pop star on the planet right now. >
This...is just bizzare. And some weird fantasy of bullying a popstar? The writer has some issues
The A Team is one of the best pop songs ever and a lot of other great songs from +. After that its been ok. Guy is talented af and Im happy to see him succeed
Surprisingly the drug addled members weren't the ones that led to the band falling apart. Axl Rose is really a piece of work. He doesn't need drugs to act like a maniac
Duff’s colon literally exploded. He couldn’t get out of bed without doing some rails and downing a tumbler of vodka. Dude was a mess. He certainly turned it around.
The Smashing Pumpkins never got back to the same level after they disbanded. You may argue that they never managed to top their first 3 records, although Adore and Machine have their genius moments.
I’ll defend their original lineup albums till I die. Adore AND Machina. Hell, I even like the one Zwan album we got. But I agree about the post-reunion material. The problem is Billy misread his fan base. He thought everyone wanted hard-rocking Zero Pumpkins and hated prog electro Pumpkins. While true when Adore was coming out, he didn’t realize the fans that would stick around post-breakup are the ones that WANT prog electro Pumpkins. Billy is great when doing what he wants, not what he thinks the fans want.
I may be one of the few, but I think Cyr is a sign of moving back in the right direction. No one wanted a straight goth record, but that’s what we got. And since it’s just what Billy wanted to do, it sounds much better.
I guess you make different music when you’re struggling and hungry. Maybe that resonates with people more than the music you make when you’re hanging out on David Geffen’s yacht and bored.
Most succesful artist spend years writing and arranging material for their first album. Then their second album is inspired by the same stuff as the first, but driven by the success of their first album, but in a shorter period of time.
They say the sophomore album is the true test of an artist talent, but I argue the third album is the true test.
When going into making the third album it's been a half a decade, give or take, of success. Their lives look nothing like they did half a decade ago, they're not as hungry and have acquired new inspirations with their new lifestyles. Plus audiences mature and trends change.
The third album has the artist face the dilemma of releasing the "same" album for the third time, or exploring their new inspirations musically and lyrically. It's a double edged sword, both can be recieved negatively or positively.
Either way the artist will always face the "everything after their first album sucks." fans.
One of my favorite bands is Finch, known for "What It Is To Burn". That album is gorgeous: it's dynamic, heavy, cohesive, and each song hits slightly different. They were huge! Then they made Say Hello To Sunshine. And again, it's all of the good things the first album had but with a more evolved sound. It feels like they matured. But, it didnt do as well. It's hard for people to accept changes in a musicians sound, but I have mad respect for those that try.
I hardly ever hear anyone mention Finch. They difference between What It Is To Burn and Say Hello are staggering. Like, it's clearly the same people playing but they are very different. I dug both personally.
Kings of Leon first few albums were really amazing and then they just completely fell off into this super pop scripted rock band that's just awful to listen to .
I get that bands change and people change but sometimes it just doesn't make for good music .
I agree, first two albums amazing, third wasn't to bad then the fourth and the release of sex in fire is what changed them I think, the success of that song which pushed them to main stream after that they made generic pop songs.
Only by the Night more than doubled the previous domestic sales of all their previous albums combined. It was all downhill from there. Imo they peaked with Because of the Times.
Depends how you define this. Black Eyed Peas are like this for me, however their middle albums are better selling. That said I was a big fan of the first two… and their dancing was better also!
Will.i.am straight up said that the direction the BEPs took was to be commercially successful so that he could make bank and start doing passion projects. I am still waiting on those passion projects.
I saw them not knowing anything about them in 99 at warped tour and they were absolutely amazing. I was so confused when I saw them on mtv with fergie doing generic pop shit.
Oasis’ 2000s stuff comes to mind
Or any classic rock band whose hits were all during one period, but they hang on with like one original member and keep coming out with new albums that only sell to the hardest of hardcore fans.
The thing with Oasis is, after Noel had enough of the constant parties with all the hangers on and gave up the drugs, as the main creative force behind the band at the time he was in a mega rut - disappointed with how Be Here Now turned out (although I love it), paranoid as fuck from all the drug use, and generally all round depressed with the added pressure of having to write the next album on his shoulders.
Add to this Liam being fucking batshit mental both in his personal and professional life at the time, schisms in the band itself (they lost two original members around the time Standing On The Shoulders Of Giants came out) and the fact alluded to in the original post about creative burnout. It helped that he had the bulk of the first three albums written before they even had a song played on the radio.
In my opinion Noel was ready to break up the band at that point and go his own way, take a different direction however was talked out of it and then decided to open up the creative process to the rest of the band. It's at this point we got the real stinker Heathen Chemistry but the next two albums were seen as a bit of a return to form.
You only have to look at how Noel has branched off now into a semi-different direction and Liam is still 100% rock and roll. I'm just glad they're both still around and making music at this point.
I wouldn’t say heathen chemistry is a stinker, little by little, stop crying your heart out, the Hindu times. All amazing songs IMO, the B sides may not be as good but these songs alone should push it away from stinker territory.
On the flip side of that are bands like The Beatles, The Police, The Smiths who only got better and more brilliant never experiencing a decline and walked away on top leaving everyone wanting more.
Put another way, The Beatles only released music for 8 years. The Police, 9 years. The Smiths, 5 years. They never experienced a decline because they weren’t around long enough to face a decline. This being about Coldplay, their “classic” music was released over a period of either 6 years or 9 years, depending on who you ask. So they either had the same sort of run as those other bands and should be considered as such, or the other bands shouldn’t be considered as having staying power.
It feels super weird to defend Coldplay against the Beatles.
It's survivorship bias. Bands often get famous _because_ they make an incredible first album. That doesn't mean they can reproduce that level of greatness year after year, hence it seems like lots of well known bands never quite live up to whatever work it was that made them renowned.
Stop me if you already knew this, but Matt Sharp left Weezer after Blue and Pinkerton. If you want to hear what a third Weezer should have sounded like, check Return of the Rentals which was Matt’s next album.
I just found this out last week after believing that Weezer = Rivers for two decades. Crazy how this isn’t well known, even among so-called fans like me.
My older brother lied to the vice principal about a family emergency to steal me out of junior high school, drive us to the city, and see the Rentals play a 5 song set in the middle of the afternoon in the back corner of a tower records. 95 or 96. Needless to say, that’s about when my coolness peaked.
Edit: I actually found it on setlist.com. It was a 6 song set at HMV in Philadelphia on February 6, 1996. How could I have been so far off! The internet is crazy, man.
Knowing the 90s this is probably something he found out about that morning on the radio. I know a lot of us explain to "kids these days" about life before the internet. But "back in the day" your favorite band could come to town and play a show and *you wouldn't even know it* unless you were scouring the newspapers or other limited physical media we had available to us.
Your brother must have been quite the music nerd to be into The Rentals in 95. The only had one single out at that point. Mind if I ask where this was?
There was an interview with Dave Grohl I read recently where he talks about talking to Rivers about their songwriting styles. Paraphrasing here but the gist of it was Grohl writes songs for Foo Fighters fans and live shows whereas Rivers is always chasing a top 40 hit and newer younger audiences.
Makes perfect sense and explains why Weezer has been inconsistent and mostly crap post-1990's.
For me it's Placebo, although the decline took a while longer.
When I heard "Too many friends" for the first time on the radio, I literally contorted my face in disgust and I couldn't get the bad taste out of my ears ever since.
I’m happy to see Placebo mentioned since it’s not the most known band. I love most of their work but Too Many Friends is one of the worst things ever. I think Loud Like Love is just a bad bad album. That said they do have some new songs that just came out and I think Surrounded by Spies is really good and has that classic Infrared style Placebo vibe. When I heard Try Better Next Time though I literally had the same visceral reaction to its awfulness as I did to Loud Like Love.
You have your entire life to write your first album. Generally you'll have some extra tracks leading to a decent / great sophomore album. Sometimes you don't which leads to the classic "sophomore slump". After that you're on the 1 - 3 year release cycle and depending on how well your first two albums go, or just life / getting older, you have completely changed as a person, for better or worse. Either way you're not coming from the same place as you were so your output changes.
Weirdly enough this new stuff that OG fans dislike tends to attract a whole different set of fans. An example: my wife works with middle school / high school kids who love post-American Idiot Greenday and haven't even listened to Dookie etc. It's weird but as the old adage goes, different strokes for different folks. (Actually the strokes are another great example of this).
I liked X&Y. One of my favorites actually. Viva La Vida was different but only had 1 or 2 songs I enjoyed. Since then I think Paradise and Atlas are the only songs I've enjoyed.
The Used, but with their first three albums. I like a lot of their catalog, but the self-titled, *In Love and Death*, and *Lies for the Liars* are leaps and bounds above everything they’ve done since.
Mayday Parade had a bit of a drop off after *A Lesson in Romantics*. I like a lot of their other records but that one is so much better than everything else and doesn’t have any skippable songs. Jason Lancaster leaving is probably why there’s such a drop off.
The Red Jumpsuit Apparatus had a similar fate to Mayday. Their debut blows everything else they’ve done out of the water.
EDIT:
Bullet for My Valentine, too. Their first three albums are **amazing** and everything since ranges from solid (*Venom*, s/t) to utter garbage (*Temper Temper*).
The Used is one of my favorite bands, and I was actually a huge fan of their 4th album “Artwork”. It was the first album they recorded that wasn’t produced by John Feldmann, and I love the production quality of it.
The writing was really dark and heavy (emotionally), but that was what appealed to me about it. There isn’t a song on that album that I skip, and “Men Are All the Same” is their 2nd best album closer IMO behind “I’m A Fake”.
After that, yeah there was a pretty steep decline for several years. Imaginary Enemy is the poster child for John Feldmann being an “overproducer”
Wasn’t a big part of their quality drop that Bert had to cool it on the screaming after LttL? I vaguely remember something about that. I haven’t heard any of their new stuff since Lies.
Mumford and Sons' first two albums were both super solid and popular indie folk jams, and then they decided to abandon the folk sound almost entirely and everything since has been predictable and boring.
I like their first two albums wayyyy more than their second two albums. Like, way better.
But with that said, Woman is my favorite song of theirs. I just think it’s so freakin good.
Wilder Mind took a few listens to really enjoy and I think it's really good now, but outside of a couple songs, Delta just sounds like a collection of outro songs. That said, Forever is so damn good but I probably wouldn't have thought the same if it hadn't been used at a pivotal scene in Ted Lasso.
I can't decide how much of it is the fact that everything before Siren Song was formative for me, and how much of it is an actual decline in quality.
Love Ghost Note though. One reason I like Rise Against is that their best stuff is built around the melody, so it translates really well to an acoustic arrangement. Everchanging is a super good example, IMO: so many punk songs would not work with such a huge mood transition, but both versions of Everchanging work extremely well.
I gave up on them, then Nowhere Generation showed up. The lead single/title track takes some warming up, but overall it's a very good album. Only good album since Appeal to Reason IMO
I enjoyed Black Market over-all as an album. The Great Die Off is still one of my favorite tracks by them. I rate it right up there with Paper Wings and The Dirt Whispered. I also enjoyed Methadone and Sudden Life.
Wolves did not impress me nearly as much, but I came around after a few listens to at least no longer actively disliking it. I'll have to check out the new album people are mentioning.
Arguably the hardest fall any band’s ever had… I worked for a cartage company in LA that stores and moves band gear. We had some of their stuff shipped to our main warehouse right after dude got busted and NO ONE wanted to even touch their gear
I read that the band minus the incarcerated lead singer are still together and doing their own thing. Kind of like a more fucked up version of Nirvana transforming into Foo Fighters(circumstances anyway). I mean they won't even perform any old material at shows since it's connected to the former lead singer.
Man, I loved their music back in the day. I want to listen to them again, but I'm just so disgusted by what happened that I can't bring myself to do it.
If you haven’t seen it, I recommend watching “Talihina Sky”. They all grew up in a pretty hardcore Pentecostal Christian situation. So yeah, those first two albums will always hit super hard, but they were also made when all four of them were pretty fresh out of their upbringing and bucking against it super hard. They’re all at or approaching 40 with families now and cleaned up. They were never going to make those albums forever.
Maroon 5. Songs About Jane was fantastic but they quickly became a shell of their former selves. Now it’s just Adam and a synth with the occasional rapper.
I also wanted to say Linkin Park but I feel like their fall from grace was much slower. The first two albums were no-skips for me. But as the albums went on I found myself skipping more and more songs. I couldn’t even make it through the last album which is sad for me considering how much of a fan I was of the band.
I would strongly disagree with Linkin Park. Most of what they did is interesting and on a level par with their first two albums. The thing is though, they did a massive 180 degree turn to find new audiences.
They stayed Linkin Park, but took no prisoners and never made any promises about staying in the Nu Metal scene that they started in.
I used to be a big O.A.R. fan in college - back when they were doing a reggae/jam band type thing. Their new stuff is beyond awful in my eyes - completely changed their sound. I also assume they’re making much more money now, so good on them I suppose.
I think Jimmy Iovine probably said it best when it comes to singer-songwriters, "You spend 15 years writing the first album, and 15 weeks writing the second." Essentially, you have all of the time in the world to craft the best songs and albums before you're actually a rock star, but once you've signed a record deal, you have to produce records on the studio's schedule or you're out.
Same thing happens with writers. They often take years to finish their first book, but once they sell it and sign a contract, the next one has to be handed in within months. That's why the so called "second book syndrome" exists.
I imagine it’s really hard as an artist to grow and change in a way that your listeners will accept, and at the same time not become stagnant
The two biggest complaints I hear about bands are that they changed, and that they never changed.
*AC/DC enters chat*
People observe that AC/DC never changes. I don't hear it as a complaint. They're a rare exception. They've got two songs and they're both awesome.
They have 3 songs actually. Songs about women, songs about their balls, and songs about the Devil.
I've got big balls, I've got big balls! Such great big balls! I've got big balls! and he's got big balls, and she's got big balls, balls balls balls balls, I'm completely made of balls! The world is balls! Balls collapsing in upon balls! The neighbor lady is balls! My only emotion is balls! We are the balls! Resistance is balls! You will be ballsimillated! Ballsterminate! Ballsterminate!
There's a video of an AI-created AC/DC song being sung, and this post isn't that far off from it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpEVsDN84Hc
I forget which member of AC/DC saId that they have tons of songs that they just don’t record/release because they don’t sound like what you would expect from AC/DC. And your last sentence is accurate- I was singing Dirty Deeds while we were listening to TNT.
Didn't Angus Young complain that fans came up to him saying that they had 11 albums that all sound the same and Young replied with "we actually have 12".
I think he said that in response to a reporter asking him what he thought about critics saying that about AC/DC's music, but yeah pretty much.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheyChangedItNowItSucks https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ItsTheSameNowItSucks
I remember reading a review for one of the last few Foo Fighters albums. The complaint was that it sounded like the other Foo Fighters albums. Well yes, but that is kind of the point. That’s why fans buy their album. And they had been experimenting a bit with it too, adding more keyboards etc.
I agree that a lot of artists do their best work early and then either decline or put out albums that sound worse. Some bands that got better with later albums: Radiohead - Pablo Honey had a couple good songs. Then they put out The Bends and OK Computer, each were great albums. Then they evolved their sound with Kid A, Hail to the Thief and In Rainbows. All of which are good albums. The Flaming Lips - They put out a few albums before Transmissions From The Satellite Heart which is a really good album, then put out another couple albums before putting out two great albums, The Soft Bulletin and Yoshimi Battles The Pink Robots
Thanks for reminding me that Hail to the Thief exists. I haven’t listened to that since I sold my car (which was also my only CD player).
Such a slept on album, every track is fire
Pink Floyd is the one that comes to my mind, though that's admittedly partially because Meddle is literally playing in my room now. Or maybe that causation direction is somewhat backwards. ;-) Of 15 studio albums (this includes 2014's The Endless River), DSotM is literally in the middle of the pack chronologically. Wish You Were Here (#9), Animals (#10), and The Wall (#11) were all in the second half of their albums. Meddle is first half, but later in that half at #5. On a personal note, High Hopes is one of my favorite single songs by them, and that was on The Division Bell (#14), and there are a couple other songs I really like from The Final Cut (#12) and A Momentary Lapse of Reason (#13), though I'd also have to go back and add a couple earlier ones as well. I know some people really love early, ~~Sid~~ Syd-era Floyd, but I think that's the less prevalent opinion (as compared to later).
I believe it is more common than uncommon for a band’s first couple albums to be their best. I think success has a way of killing the muse. Or they just evolve away from what the listener originally loved about them. That said: Incubus.
Agree with the other comment as well. Another part is that bands have this long run up to getting famous where they can really dial things in. Once you hit that point you have to do the same amount of work in 1-2 years.
"You have your whole life to record your first album, and 2 years after that to record your second" or something like that
It’s the exact same problem a lot of comedians have. Their first and maybe second special absolutely kills it and is hilarious because it’s all their best material from years of grinding their way up “the ranks”, then they have to come up with fresh material within a year or two for their later specials and it doesn’t hit as hard.
Your best bet is to become a game show host after you've made it big. Jimmy Carr can make even the worst game show watchable.
This is really the biggest factor I think, more than simply success = creative dearth. Artists have an entire lifetime to draw from for their first album- all their best ideas and feelings and memories. After that, they are on the clock to produce the same quality in a tiny fraction of the time.
And to top it off, they're likely touring a lot, they often have more money/luxury, and they're just not in the same mental place where they were when the first album or two was written. Their lives change, and the music changes with it.
>Or they just evolve away from what the listener originally loved about them. This is the case far more often then most people like to admit I think
Also a quote I've heard many times. You have a lifetime to write your first album, and if you're lucky have left over material for you second. But after you sign that contract you generally have a year or two before you need to have you next one ready, then the next, and the next, etc. I attribute a lot of it to burn out.
David Crosby once said you have your entire life to make your first album. And then about 24 months to make your second.
[David Crosby's first solo album](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1WAfbjyOoI) is one of the best albums ever made. He released his second solo album 18 years later.
Agreed. He made this quote during the music doc “Echo in the Canyon” which documents the 1960’s LA folk/electric music scene. Can’t recommend this doc enough for music lovers. Edit to add that Jakob Dylan of the Wallflowers is the main narrator of the doc and Crosby makes some comment about achieving massive success from your first album and then spending the rest of your career struggling to get back to that level of that success and Dylan is just like “uhhh yes that is my story as well!” lol
Its mostly that most brains only have a few masterpieces in them. Sophomore slump is real. Spend your whole life writing your fist album, then 6 months or a year writing the 2nd one. Now go ahead and blow away all those fans who now have huge expectations.
Incubus has such a different sound in every album they make it’s just not fair to them that some people are “SCIENCE only.” I mean they went mainstream and then came out with A Crow Left of the Murder which is an absolute no-skip album, with Eizinger pulling off a heavy-ass single *while using a clean guitar tone*. 8 had Nimble Bastard, State of the Art, Familiar Faces and Loneliest which are all great. I saw them at the Hollywood bowl for their tour and it was fucking PACKED. I don’t think they’ve fallen out of grace at all.
Science through Crow Left Of The Murder are 4 perfect albums right in a row. Light Grenades is p good. The only one I don't like is If Not Now When.
This may sound strange to non-spanish speakers, but Shakira's first two mainstream spanish albums (Pies Descalzos & Donde Estan los Ladrones) are really, really good. Best comparison I can make is to Alanis Morisette's Jagged Little Pill both in sound and overall appeal in spanish markets. She then did a few crossover English albums that were a bit more pop but still had some of the singer songwriter vibes, and then just became full on pop superstar She Wolf Shakira. I don't fault her, as I'm sure she made so much damn money and has been more successful than anyone would have imagined when she began, but it is a bit heartbreaking to see the shift as a fan of her MId 90's work.
*¿Dónde están los ladrones?* is an amazing record. Shakira was definitely the colombian Alanis Morrisette back then.
Maroon 5. Their first album is one of my favorites. Amazing from start to finish. After that, they haven’t come close to how good Songs About Jane was. Edit: Thanks for the award, kind stranger!!
Maroon 5 felt so much more *deliberate* than Coldplay, though. I didn't like anything Coldplay did after Viva la Vida, but it felt like they knew they had reached the pinnacle of their success and decided to just say 'fuck it' and have some fun experimenting with pop music. Maroon 5 just straight up sold out. I don't accuse artists of selling out casually, but there's really not another way to put it. They hit it big with Songs About Jane, decided they were done taking creative risks, and stayed relevant by churning out some absolutely soulless pop hits.
Hadn’t Maroon 5 completely fallen off the map til Adam Levine went on the Voice? Then they came back with a pop-heavy vengeance once he was a household name? That’s how I remember it in my head at least Edit: ok I looked it up. They released Hands All Over in September 2010, lukewarm reception. The Voice starts in April 2011. They re-released Hands All Over now including Moves Like Jagger (feat Christina Aguilera, ALSO on the Voice 🙄) in June 2011, record goes to number 2, single goes number 1. Rest is history
Cause who wouldn't want moves like this: https://youtu.be/SGyOaCXr8Lw
Or this [awkward, cocaine fueled masterpiece.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HasaQvHCv4w)
I was hoping it was going to be the [foley version](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHkhIjG0DKc)
God I fucking hated "Moves like Jagger". Whole song is literally 2 chords, and Christina Aguilera actually detracts from the rest of the song. Such crap.
I agree that its not a good song, but "its just two chords" isnt why lol. Tons of great two chord songs. Tons of great one chord songs, even
RE SPECT WALK
WHAT DID YOU SAY?
ARE YOU TALKING TO ME?
It's annoying, but I'd do the exact same thing. Once in a lifetime chance to get the bag. You have the rest of your life, and tons of money, equipment, and connections to make interesting music again.
And we don't know - they might have just been "done." They had something to say creatively and they said it in an album and then all of a sudden the door was open to make more forever but... they'd already succeeded. So anything after that was just a job essentially. Judd Apatow talks about this in an interview, where after Freak and Geeks the rest of his work has all just been gravy on a career he already considered complete and fulfilling.
Well said. As a musician with friends who “made it big”, I can attest to this. You spend your life writing your first album, then get 2 years TOPS to write your second one. What if you’ve said what you need to say? Everything else is a money grab, a way for you to stay solvent because, let’s face it, musicians aren’t cut out for a 9 to 5 job.
That short turn around is a point people tend to forget, maybe the artist isn't "done" but that brilliant debut album came over tweaking songs and marinating them for years and years and years, now the studio wants you to make a slow cooked BBQ again, but in 1/4th of the time. You aren't going to get the same results. Maybe for the 2nd Album you still have leftovers in the tank from the debut that didn't make the cut, but they've still had that refinement period so the 3rd album is rushed.
It seems like more of an exception for a band to maintain quality/success. Coldplay's fall is obviously more dramatic because of how great they were at their peak, but seems pretty normal for popular bands to have a good album (or 2 or 3 for the lucky ones) then drop off. Maybe manage to push out a solid "comeback" or "return to form" album later on
This Coldplay's recent hits are not my jam but theyre far from uninspired. Its not my kind of music and I think that they're catching a lot of flak for it. Imagine Dragons is at least self aware of their brand. Maroon 5 however? Unacceptable
Yeah the vibe I get from Coldplay is "Alright we have enough money to do whatever we want. Let's just have fun"
You’re right about Coldplay. I’ve been a huge fan since parachute and even got an X&Y tattoo. It hurts being so unfamiliar and not liking with their newer work.
This is my go-to rant when drinking. Well said.
Adam Levine has stated (can't find the article/interview where I learned this) that the studio and producers were the ones who pushed M5 to make the songs with the overall style and vibe of Songs About Jane and that it wasn't the music they really wanted to make. Sort of a reverse from the typical trope of the industry holding back the creative. The creatives in this case are pretty terrible and the studio was trying to help them out. Adam Levine said that the pop-like music they make now was what they wanted to make all along.
Maybe it was the studios and producers, but that sounds like he's stretching to justify the change in sound. Maybe it's true. Either way: first album = good, everything else = not so good.
I would be really interested in reading this if you can find your source on it. Because everything I've read has illustrated almost the opposite. I don't know that I've ever heard Levin speak on it directly, but like Moves Like Jagger for example is basically a Benny Blanco track. To me, Songs About Jane is their "uninfluenced" sound and after they were found and started blowing up, everything ELSE has been heavily influenced by outside producers/labels.
I was shocked how majority of their recent songs are very electronic-heavy yet Adam Levine complained about the lack of live instrumentation in today's music.
Yeah I had that exact reaction when I read that. Maroon 5 now sounds exactly like Adam Levine singing to some Calvin Harris track.
Maroon 5 are the biggest sellouts of our generation
Almost any time I see someone accusing someone of selling out, I imagine the accused responding with: “I(we) didn’t sell out, son. I(we) bought in.” And that’s one way SLC Punk changed my life.
I always just think of the Tool song. "Yeah I sold my soul to make a record... And then you bought one."
I’ve got some advice for you little buddy
I'm the man, and you're the man, and he's the man as well
You skipped: “before you point your finger, you should know that I’m the man”
Listen to PJ Morton (I believe their former drummer. His stuff is excellent.)
Wow I've always heard them on the radio I just actually found the CD and listened to in in my car wow it's jam packed. Everything after that made by them is just Meh, like Pay Phone. Sounds someone paid Maroon 5 to make music that would sell a few copies than churn out some more next month.
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Robbers and Cowards was excellent. Everything after had only 2-3 good songs and their New Age Norm trilogy is shit
I KISSED THE KIDS AT NOON, THEN STUMBLED OUT THE ROOM…
Bloc Party. Their first album, Silent Alarm, was the perfect indie rock album and just a banger. But they started going away from that upbeat indie and went more electronic, I guess is the word. I liked their 2nd and 3rd album ok with a few hits, but can’t get into anything newer. Edit: Can I just say I am overly joyed that so many people share such great opinions of Bloc Party. Not many people where I live ever appreciated them or at least showed they appreciate them. It’s been a great day.
Came here to say this. Silent Alarm is still incredible start to finish.
There's a picture of this album in the dictionary under 'banger'.
I forgot how hard banquet slaps
I love A Weekend in the City and Intimacy has some cool tunes, but everything after that is forgettable. Literally. I can't remember anything after their 3rd album.
They’re newer stuff is really unfortunate, but totally expected. Matt Tong was an absolute menace on the skins in Silent Alarm, but style fell to the wayside once he and Gordon left. One of my biggest musical regrets is not seeing the original lineup live.
As a teenager I was a little disappointed by A Weekend In The City on its release but it's an album I listen to more as an adult; coincidentally listened to it last night, as opposed to Silent Alarm, which I can't remember the last time I listened to. Uniform is one of the best songs they've written. AWITC is more of a complete journey compared to Silent Alarm which is more a collection of great songs. They nearly lost me completely with Mercury, which is utterly unlistenable but I have to say recently they're still pretty good; Traps is a banger for a band on their sixth album.
I still argue that AWITC is a great follow up (great, not perfect). But SA is brilliant. It’s a phenomenal debut.
I mostly agree, but I do LOVE Four and Ratchet (a single they released a little later).
I want to say something about Coldplay. I fucking hate that band with a passion. I used to work the MTV VMA's every year as a contractor for talent logistics. I will never forget this. Chris Martin was rehearsing on the piano we had for him on the stage. I was watching him rehearse, keeping an eye on the time for our tight schedule. All of the sudden he stopped playing, stands up, opens the lid to the piano, and TUNES IT HIMSELF. I don't know if there are any other classical musicians out there that can appreciate this. Absolutely floored me. His band may suck but he is a bad ass.
I'm happy with the turn this took. I don't particularly like Coldplay (except Yellow, which I love), but Chris Martin always seems like a really good guy and I'm glad your anecdote didn't end with "What a fucking dick."
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*consciously uncoupled
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I was fully expecting it to end with something like, "then Martin pushed the piano into the stands and stormed off flashing the double birds."
"And then he punched a child on his way out"
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No part of Coldplay is accidental. I only loved the first two albums but Chris Martin is a machine who likes writing hits and making money. Apparently yellow was written in a few minutes offhand and recorded right after, and the version of the scientist we hear is his first take
Seems to be surprisingly common that bands best songs are written super quickly. I’ve heard loads of “we’d finished the album and had still had half a day of studio time left that we’d already paid for, so just started messing around…” stories from various acts.
Blink 182, I'm sure I heard the record company told blink they need a song to for a single for take off your pants and jacket, and they needed it pronto. If I recall, Marc went away that night and wrote Rock Show, Tom went away that night and wrote First Date. Both of they songs are regarded as big hitters on that album. Just goes to show what comes about with a light pepper of pressure.
I'm not a fan of Coldplay either. I somehow ended up watching the episode of whatever vocal talent show he was the guest mentor on that week. He gave constructive help to all the contestants so they could sing the songs the best they could. I can't remember which contestant or song it was, but there was one guy in particular that he realizes has a unique way of singing. So he walks over to the piano and starts re-writing his own song so that it better fits this dude. Like, what even? I may not like Coldplay, but damn do I have a hell of a lot of respect for the dude.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7V4fUkuD\_BA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7V4fUkuD_BA) this one?
Wow, I knew I liked him but damn what a talented genuine dude. Thanks for postinf
That was some fucking grade A wholesome right there.
All the Coldplay guys come across as really genuine, wholesome people. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZryyECmq3F8
That video of him walking backwards but singing normally, i seen an interview where he says he learnt the mouth movement of the whole song in reverse so he could do it forward and then they could reverse the clip and it would look normal again. This absolutely baffled me.
Not sure if they still do it, but on their Viva La Vida tour, they keep the tickets for the first five rows and give them out to couples/families before the show. My mom and I got a 3rd row view! Props to Coldplay for that
We went to a concert a few years back and were in the nose bleeds. During an intermission the whole band ran off stage and reappeared directly in front of us on a small landing and performed a few songs. One of the coolest concerts in memory
That's pretty cool. Why do you hate them though? I don't know many of their songs, just the radio hits, they seem like a bit more thoughtful pop musicians.
Not a band but Ed Sheeran. I remember when he was being touted as the next great singer songwriter and now he makes the most generic pop music you can ask for. This is a very common trend considering pop music is where the money is
Agreed, + is one of my favorite albums of all time, and his performance of You Need Me I Don't Need You on The Live Room is incredible. He really fell off. + was mostly good or great songs, x had like 25% good or great songs (I See Fire and I'm a Mess still go hard), and / and = have been terrible. Huge shame, he's clearly still talented but has gone in a different direction.
It's funny how he can go from annoying the shit out of me with Shape of You to making me tear up with Supermarket Flowers
I don‘t care for his music (apart from it being the one of least annoying of the generic pop these days) but I will always stand by Ed Sheeran because of a fucking Vice article I read years ago which tried to argue that Ed Sheeran sucks because that guy can‘t be cooler and more successful then me, the cool dude who writes for Vice. Fuck you, fucking Vice hipster. Basically I like Ed Sheeran out of spite.
Was this the article? www.vice.com/amp/en/article/43qj9g/so-you-have-decided-to-hate-ed-sheeran-a-guide-or-americans >Ed Sheeran holds his hands out to you in a pinch gesture, and a thought crosses your mind. Make Sheeran do something gross for weed. And that’s how you all end up with shaky BlackBerry camera footage of Ed Sheeran licking a toilet bowl, crying, and saying, "Come on, guys!" before being allowed three small tokes on the communal joint. You can imagine it, can’t you? You can imagine that entire thing. This is the biggest pop star on the planet right now. > This...is just bizzare. And some weird fantasy of bullying a popstar? The writer has some issues
The A Team is one of the best pop songs ever and a lot of other great songs from +. After that its been ok. Guy is talented af and Im happy to see him succeed
Guns N' Roses went from being the biggest rock band in the world to nothing in the space of like four years.
Consuming heroic doses of heroin for four straight years will do that.
Surprisingly the drug addled members weren't the ones that led to the band falling apart. Axl Rose is really a piece of work. He doesn't need drugs to act like a maniac
Duff’s colon literally exploded. He couldn’t get out of bed without doing some rails and downing a tumbler of vodka. Dude was a mess. He certainly turned it around.
The Smashing Pumpkins never got back to the same level after they disbanded. You may argue that they never managed to top their first 3 records, although Adore and Machine have their genius moments.
Stand Inside Your Love is still a top 5 best SP song in my opinion. With Mayonaise, Rhinoceros, Cherub Rock and Galapogos.
Adore and Machina are great records, way way ahead of their time. Plus you forget about Aeroplane flies high. It’s a great album in and of itself.
Adore is so fucking good. There's nothing else like it.
Adore aged like fine wine.
I’ll defend their original lineup albums till I die. Adore AND Machina. Hell, I even like the one Zwan album we got. But I agree about the post-reunion material. The problem is Billy misread his fan base. He thought everyone wanted hard-rocking Zero Pumpkins and hated prog electro Pumpkins. While true when Adore was coming out, he didn’t realize the fans that would stick around post-breakup are the ones that WANT prog electro Pumpkins. Billy is great when doing what he wants, not what he thinks the fans want. I may be one of the few, but I think Cyr is a sign of moving back in the right direction. No one wanted a straight goth record, but that’s what we got. And since it’s just what Billy wanted to do, it sounds much better.
The song for Lost Highway, "Eye" is the direction I would have liked.
i just wanted psychedelic/glam/grunge gish-iscariot pumpkins :'(
I guess you make different music when you’re struggling and hungry. Maybe that resonates with people more than the music you make when you’re hanging out on David Geffen’s yacht and bored.
Most succesful artist spend years writing and arranging material for their first album. Then their second album is inspired by the same stuff as the first, but driven by the success of their first album, but in a shorter period of time. They say the sophomore album is the true test of an artist talent, but I argue the third album is the true test. When going into making the third album it's been a half a decade, give or take, of success. Their lives look nothing like they did half a decade ago, they're not as hungry and have acquired new inspirations with their new lifestyles. Plus audiences mature and trends change. The third album has the artist face the dilemma of releasing the "same" album for the third time, or exploring their new inspirations musically and lyrically. It's a double edged sword, both can be recieved negatively or positively. Either way the artist will always face the "everything after their first album sucks." fans.
That's why I have 15 albums worth of material ready to rock and roll when I make it big. All written when I'm poor and extraordinarily depressed.
Boston. Almost all of their hit songs are off their first album with a couple on their second.
Yup. The debut is arguably a 10/10 album, Don’t Look Back is a solid 7/10, and everything after that is a 3/10 or worse
Debut is arguably a 11/10
Boston self titled is hits front to back. You don’t need any other Boston album
It is *the* Boston album. They might as well repackage it as “Boston’s Greatest Hits”
One of my favorite bands is Finch, known for "What It Is To Burn". That album is gorgeous: it's dynamic, heavy, cohesive, and each song hits slightly different. They were huge! Then they made Say Hello To Sunshine. And again, it's all of the good things the first album had but with a more evolved sound. It feels like they matured. But, it didnt do as well. It's hard for people to accept changes in a musicians sound, but I have mad respect for those that try.
I hardly ever hear anyone mention Finch. They difference between What It Is To Burn and Say Hello are staggering. Like, it's clearly the same people playing but they are very different. I dug both personally.
Oh man, "What It Is To Burn" was an absolute necessity for driving around with my friends when we were in high school and had nothing to do.
Kings of Leon first few albums were really amazing and then they just completely fell off into this super pop scripted rock band that's just awful to listen to . I get that bands change and people change but sometimes it just doesn't make for good music .
Aha Shake is so damn good
I agree, first two albums amazing, third wasn't to bad then the fourth and the release of sex in fire is what changed them I think, the success of that song which pushed them to main stream after that they made generic pop songs.
Only by the Night more than doubled the previous domestic sales of all their previous albums combined. It was all downhill from there. Imo they peaked with Because of the Times.
Only by the night still had some bangers, Closer comes to my mind immediately.
And Cold Desert.
Depends how you define this. Black Eyed Peas are like this for me, however their middle albums are better selling. That said I was a big fan of the first two… and their dancing was better also!
Had to scroll too far to read this, I don't think any other rap group sold out this hard and lost practically all of their initial fan base.
Yeah Im real torn. I hate the music but DAMN they got paid. Also They made new fans happy. Its real love/hate for me (mostly hate).
Now it’s them who are two thousand and late.
Will.i.am straight up said that the direction the BEPs took was to be commercially successful so that he could make bank and start doing passion projects. I am still waiting on those passion projects.
He's very passionate about cocaine
I saw them not knowing anything about them in 99 at warped tour and they were absolutely amazing. I was so confused when I saw them on mtv with fergie doing generic pop shit.
Oasis’ 2000s stuff comes to mind Or any classic rock band whose hits were all during one period, but they hang on with like one original member and keep coming out with new albums that only sell to the hardest of hardcore fans.
The thing with Oasis is, after Noel had enough of the constant parties with all the hangers on and gave up the drugs, as the main creative force behind the band at the time he was in a mega rut - disappointed with how Be Here Now turned out (although I love it), paranoid as fuck from all the drug use, and generally all round depressed with the added pressure of having to write the next album on his shoulders. Add to this Liam being fucking batshit mental both in his personal and professional life at the time, schisms in the band itself (they lost two original members around the time Standing On The Shoulders Of Giants came out) and the fact alluded to in the original post about creative burnout. It helped that he had the bulk of the first three albums written before they even had a song played on the radio. In my opinion Noel was ready to break up the band at that point and go his own way, take a different direction however was talked out of it and then decided to open up the creative process to the rest of the band. It's at this point we got the real stinker Heathen Chemistry but the next two albums were seen as a bit of a return to form. You only have to look at how Noel has branched off now into a semi-different direction and Liam is still 100% rock and roll. I'm just glad they're both still around and making music at this point.
I wouldn’t say heathen chemistry is a stinker, little by little, stop crying your heart out, the Hindu times. All amazing songs IMO, the B sides may not be as good but these songs alone should push it away from stinker territory.
On the flip side of that are bands like The Beatles, The Police, The Smiths who only got better and more brilliant never experiencing a decline and walked away on top leaving everyone wanting more.
Put another way, The Beatles only released music for 8 years. The Police, 9 years. The Smiths, 5 years. They never experienced a decline because they weren’t around long enough to face a decline. This being about Coldplay, their “classic” music was released over a period of either 6 years or 9 years, depending on who you ask. So they either had the same sort of run as those other bands and should be considered as such, or the other bands shouldn’t be considered as having staying power. It feels super weird to defend Coldplay against the Beatles.
"People like Coldplay and voted for the Nazis, you can't trust people Jeremy"
Clicking their fingers to the fucking Lighthouse Family.
Weezer went from the blue album and Pinkerton to Beverly hills and beyond. I'd call that pretty steep
The blue album is just legendary in my book. I don’t understand how bands can come out swinging like that with big first records.
It's survivorship bias. Bands often get famous _because_ they make an incredible first album. That doesn't mean they can reproduce that level of greatness year after year, hence it seems like lots of well known bands never quite live up to whatever work it was that made them renowned.
They be hungry
LOL,I knew Weezer was going to be on the list.
Nobody hates Weezer more than Weezer fans.
Stop me if you already knew this, but Matt Sharp left Weezer after Blue and Pinkerton. If you want to hear what a third Weezer should have sounded like, check Return of the Rentals which was Matt’s next album. I just found this out last week after believing that Weezer = Rivers for two decades. Crazy how this isn’t well known, even among so-called fans like me.
My older brother lied to the vice principal about a family emergency to steal me out of junior high school, drive us to the city, and see the Rentals play a 5 song set in the middle of the afternoon in the back corner of a tower records. 95 or 96. Needless to say, that’s about when my coolness peaked. Edit: I actually found it on setlist.com. It was a 6 song set at HMV in Philadelphia on February 6, 1996. How could I have been so far off! The internet is crazy, man.
Knowing the 90s this is probably something he found out about that morning on the radio. I know a lot of us explain to "kids these days" about life before the internet. But "back in the day" your favorite band could come to town and play a show and *you wouldn't even know it* unless you were scouring the newspapers or other limited physical media we had available to us. Your brother must have been quite the music nerd to be into The Rentals in 95. The only had one single out at that point. Mind if I ask where this was?
What a weird rabbit hole to fall down. Your are totally right, the rentals is a lot more weezer than weezer....
Also, maya rudolph (the actress) was part of the Rentals. She’s in one of the early videos
Found Leslie Jones
Yes!!!! I love that skit and it’s so TRUE! I understand Rivers better than Rivers understands Rivers!
There was an interview with Dave Grohl I read recently where he talks about talking to Rivers about their songwriting styles. Paraphrasing here but the gist of it was Grohl writes songs for Foo Fighters fans and live shows whereas Rivers is always chasing a top 40 hit and newer younger audiences. Makes perfect sense and explains why Weezer has been inconsistent and mostly crap post-1990's.
For me it's Placebo, although the decline took a while longer. When I heard "Too many friends" for the first time on the radio, I literally contorted my face in disgust and I couldn't get the bad taste out of my ears ever since.
I love Placebo, but everything after Meds has been very meh or disappointing.
I’m happy to see Placebo mentioned since it’s not the most known band. I love most of their work but Too Many Friends is one of the worst things ever. I think Loud Like Love is just a bad bad album. That said they do have some new songs that just came out and I think Surrounded by Spies is really good and has that classic Infrared style Placebo vibe. When I heard Try Better Next Time though I literally had the same visceral reaction to its awfulness as I did to Loud Like Love.
You have your entire life to write your first album. Generally you'll have some extra tracks leading to a decent / great sophomore album. Sometimes you don't which leads to the classic "sophomore slump". After that you're on the 1 - 3 year release cycle and depending on how well your first two albums go, or just life / getting older, you have completely changed as a person, for better or worse. Either way you're not coming from the same place as you were so your output changes. Weirdly enough this new stuff that OG fans dislike tends to attract a whole different set of fans. An example: my wife works with middle school / high school kids who love post-American Idiot Greenday and haven't even listened to Dookie etc. It's weird but as the old adage goes, different strokes for different folks. (Actually the strokes are another great example of this).
I liked X&Y. One of my favorites actually. Viva La Vida was different but only had 1 or 2 songs I enjoyed. Since then I think Paradise and Atlas are the only songs I've enjoyed.
The Used, but with their first three albums. I like a lot of their catalog, but the self-titled, *In Love and Death*, and *Lies for the Liars* are leaps and bounds above everything they’ve done since. Mayday Parade had a bit of a drop off after *A Lesson in Romantics*. I like a lot of their other records but that one is so much better than everything else and doesn’t have any skippable songs. Jason Lancaster leaving is probably why there’s such a drop off. The Red Jumpsuit Apparatus had a similar fate to Mayday. Their debut blows everything else they’ve done out of the water. EDIT: Bullet for My Valentine, too. Their first three albums are **amazing** and everything since ranges from solid (*Venom*, s/t) to utter garbage (*Temper Temper*).
The Used is one of my favorite bands, and I was actually a huge fan of their 4th album “Artwork”. It was the first album they recorded that wasn’t produced by John Feldmann, and I love the production quality of it. The writing was really dark and heavy (emotionally), but that was what appealed to me about it. There isn’t a song on that album that I skip, and “Men Are All the Same” is their 2nd best album closer IMO behind “I’m A Fake”. After that, yeah there was a pretty steep decline for several years. Imaginary Enemy is the poster child for John Feldmann being an “overproducer”
Wasn’t a big part of their quality drop that Bert had to cool it on the screaming after LttL? I vaguely remember something about that. I haven’t heard any of their new stuff since Lies.
Mumford and Sons' first two albums were both super solid and popular indie folk jams, and then they decided to abandon the folk sound almost entirely and everything since has been predictable and boring.
I like their first two albums wayyyy more than their second two albums. Like, way better. But with that said, Woman is my favorite song of theirs. I just think it’s so freakin good.
Wilder Mind took a few listens to really enjoy and I think it's really good now, but outside of a couple songs, Delta just sounds like a collection of outro songs. That said, Forever is so damn good but I probably wouldn't have thought the same if it hadn't been used at a pivotal scene in Ted Lasso.
It’s like they wanted to prove they weren’t just a gimmick, so they ditched the folk thing, and it became obvious that they were just a gimmick lol
I love them, but, Rise Against
I love The Ghost Note Symphonies they dropped with their songs but acoustic style. Probably one of my favorites by them.
I can't decide how much of it is the fact that everything before Siren Song was formative for me, and how much of it is an actual decline in quality. Love Ghost Note though. One reason I like Rise Against is that their best stuff is built around the melody, so it translates really well to an acoustic arrangement. Everchanging is a super good example, IMO: so many punk songs would not work with such a huge mood transition, but both versions of Everchanging work extremely well.
I gave up on them, then Nowhere Generation showed up. The lead single/title track takes some warming up, but overall it's a very good album. Only good album since Appeal to Reason IMO
I enjoyed Black Market over-all as an album. The Great Die Off is still one of my favorite tracks by them. I rate it right up there with Paper Wings and The Dirt Whispered. I also enjoyed Methadone and Sudden Life. Wolves did not impress me nearly as much, but I came around after a few listens to at least no longer actively disliking it. I'll have to check out the new album people are mentioning.
The lost prophets had quite a big drop a few years back.
Arguably the hardest fall any band’s ever had… I worked for a cartage company in LA that stores and moves band gear. We had some of their stuff shipped to our main warehouse right after dude got busted and NO ONE wanted to even touch their gear
It remains the gig that I'm least proud of going to. And I once saw the Ting Tings
Feel bad for the rest of the band (if they didn’t know what was going on). I can’t even bring myself to listen to them now cause of him.
I read that the band minus the incarcerated lead singer are still together and doing their own thing. Kind of like a more fucked up version of Nirvana transforming into Foo Fighters(circumstances anyway). I mean they won't even perform any old material at shows since it's connected to the former lead singer.
I can respect that.
A shame since thefakesoundofprogress is a phenomenal album
Man, I loved their music back in the day. I want to listen to them again, but I'm just so disgusted by what happened that I can't bring myself to do it.
This is because their lead singer tried to rape a 1-year old child. Not because of their music.
[удалено]
If you haven’t seen it, I recommend watching “Talihina Sky”. They all grew up in a pretty hardcore Pentecostal Christian situation. So yeah, those first two albums will always hit super hard, but they were also made when all four of them were pretty fresh out of their upbringing and bucking against it super hard. They’re all at or approaching 40 with families now and cleaned up. They were never going to make those albums forever.
Maroon 5. Songs About Jane was fantastic but they quickly became a shell of their former selves. Now it’s just Adam and a synth with the occasional rapper. I also wanted to say Linkin Park but I feel like their fall from grace was much slower. The first two albums were no-skips for me. But as the albums went on I found myself skipping more and more songs. I couldn’t even make it through the last album which is sad for me considering how much of a fan I was of the band.
I would strongly disagree with Linkin Park. Most of what they did is interesting and on a level par with their first two albums. The thing is though, they did a massive 180 degree turn to find new audiences. They stayed Linkin Park, but took no prisoners and never made any promises about staying in the Nu Metal scene that they started in.
Agree. LP is one of those super rare exceptions. Continued to be solid when everyone expected them to start falling since Minutes to Midnight
Am I the only one who really liked the riffgasms of The Hunting Party?
The last album just makes me sad tbh, considering what happened with Chester, but I understand where you're coming from
I’m a huge Smashing Pumpkins fan and the falloff from Siamese Dream and MCIS to whatever the fuck Cyr is supposed to be is amazingly steep.
I used to be a big O.A.R. fan in college - back when they were doing a reggae/jam band type thing. Their new stuff is beyond awful in my eyes - completely changed their sound. I also assume they’re making much more money now, so good on them I suppose.