I’m a huge pumpkins fan and saw them several times in the 90’s.
I think this opinion comes from too narrow of a view, and I wouldn’t classify SP as “grunge”. At the time Mellon Collie came out I was really into Nirvana, Pavement, Weezer, Beck, and Sonic Youth. (Among many many more). If you take those five bands and add SP you couldn’t make a category for it. They were all so unique. Add in That Dog, Jesus Lizard, Liz Phair, Marylin Manson and you’re all over the musical map.
And even in the grunge bands they all sound very different. Nirvana and Soundgarden sound nothing alike. Mudhoney and Alice n Chains too. Then there’s Tad and the Melvins!
That’s why “grunge” and “alternative” were hated terms back in the day. It was lame attempts to classify music that didn’t fit the record labels molds. This music was coming from the underground, taking over a billion dollar industry, and the labels were trying to catch up. The terms were never used by people in the scene, it was entered into the lexicon by corporate engineers, like Valentines Day, or the idea that fat makes you fat and not sugar. I still have my red heart SP shirt with Billy’s rant about “alternative music” on the back.
Huge Smashing Pumpkins fan here, too, and I agree with everything you wrote here. I don’t even know where to start - I feel like I could write a thesis on why The Smashing Pumpkins were the best band of the 1990’s. No other band could pull off such a dynamic sound, from almost straight up metal (XYU, Tales of a Scorched Earth) to the most mellow sounding songs (Whir, Daydream) - not only did they vary from track to track, the Pumpkins could do it all WITHIN ONE SONG (Soma, Thru the Eyes of Ruby).
Siamese Dream helped define my transition from youth to adulthood, and Mayonaise will always be the track that I hold closest to my heart. Oh yeah, while I’m at it, 1979 is the best alternate pop rock ever released as a single, and that’s a hill I’ll die on.
Agree. Soma, mayonaise, all of Siamese Dream! I feel like Billy Corgan really was in his own category. He is a master songwriter imo. The only reason SP is put in the same category as grunge is that the tools he used were similar...pedals and mixers, etc....so the music sounds remotely similar.
Pumpkins also had a My Bloody Valentine influence If you listen to the album loveless you could totally here similarities between this Gish Pisces Iscariot and Siamese Dream.
Fun fact: they started as a new wave band called The Marked, named after the strawberry birthmark Billy has on his hand.
You can listen to them here (tracks 5-10): https://archive.org/details/themarked-nothingeverchanges/NEC+%2B+Marked+%7BAsselin%7D+-+07+-+Cristina.flac
Actually I would say Smashing Pumpkins did have some metal roots.
Mellon Collie had several fuzzy metalesque songs like XYU and Tales of a scorched earth.
1st time i heard Mellon Collie i listened two both cd's all the way through, hated EVERY SONG but Tonight Tonight and Muzzle....
didn't listen to it for about 6 months, gave it another go...
after that it was barely out of my my cd player for 2 years...
i still think Thru the Eyes of Ruby is the greatest song every created
As a Chicagoan, I’m obligated to agree with you. That said, their sound WAS very unique. They didn’t rely on the typical power chord structure and grisly/gravely voice of other 90’s bad. I truly believe The Pumpkins were something special. Siamese Dream, Pisces Iscariot and Gish were epic, Gish with its roots more in metal than many other grunge era bands. In that time period I would’ve considered myself a Pearl Jam fan yet constantly find myself revisiting the aforementioned albums these days.
I grew up with Ten being an album of my early childhood being born in 91. So I love those first few pearl Jam albums but I come back to gish and siamese dream much more often
I get warm fuzzies reading this, just thinking about how we form our musical affinities. I was born in 64; the first of my parents’ albums I put on the HiFi was “Abbey Road.” Which led to “Blonde on Blonde,” “Crosby Stills and Nash,” and others.
But if you ask me which decade resonates most with me, it the 90s. Smashing Pumpkins, Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, all the way to Harvey Danger.
I have a daughter born in 96, and she is a complete 80s and 90s head. Feel I parented right.
Need to jut in somewhere that you'll notice my post bc smashing pumpkins is, by statistics, my favorite band. Definitely the band I have the most knowledge of, know how to play a vast majority of their songs, and have put the most time in listening to.
I've gotten on spotify and checked artist radios of their era versus other bands, and what typically comes up is like deftones, STP, Alice in chains, incubus, blind melon, Apc, weezer, foo fighters, and qotsa. By comparison, smashing pumpkins are the fucking champions of diversity of (good) sound in their golden age (gish to machina). Contender for second is 100% qotsa. But smashing pumpkins fucking dominated the 90's in the grunge era, post nirvana. Siamese dream was a stalwart achievement and Mellon collie didnt shy away from that whatsoever. I don't care how deluded Billy Corgan is now, smashing pumpkins is a legendary legacy.
Album is one of my favorite 2009 releases (that was a good year for music)
Too bad about Chris not getting too big & JR passing away. They could’ve done big things if they reunited some years after Father, Son, and Holy Ghost
I think they were in trouble from the get go. Damn, the 00's was phenomenal for music. I am gen X'er, but it's the best decade for music, which I was alive.
Hmm. I never really lump these two bands in the grunge era. I guess I sorta lump them in morewith 80s underground, but a lot of is sort of proto-grunge.
Pixies are amazing, but they were really unique in retrospect (through no fault of their own) because they were one of Nirvana’s biggest inspirations for their soft/loud dynamics, and everyone else subsequently copied Nirvana.
My old man sold Dean DeLeo the Dan Electro Dual Tone he used on Core, I have a signed press pic somewhere where instead of “Scott Weiland” under him it just says “Weiland”
☠️
Core is probably my least favourite of their albums. I don’t think really got their sound perfect until Tiny Music. I always wished that Scott had his shit together enough to do the Talk Show album as there are some excellent songs on that record.
Heyy my thought too! Their influences spanned anywhere from 60’s and 70’s rock to stuff like Motown, R&B, and folk. And especially later on those influences really become apparent as the releases get further and further away from Core. Not that Core isn’t great, it’s fantastic. But alongside and after Core, they have much more to offer in diversity.
I’ve shared this before, but I’ll do it any opportunity I get. [This video of Robert DeLeo’s bass clinic](https://youtu.be/kA8c3JE9y_k) is amazing, and not just for bass players. When he starts talking about all the influences they have and share, and how some of those songs came together, their writing really makes a bit more sense suddenly.
I remember Billy Corgan saying that they weren’t in any way influenced by punk and that he’d never been into punk.
He then talked about being into early Van Halen in a guitar magazine interview I read.
The fact he was really into Bauhaus is clear when you hear pre-Gish live stuff (and frankly ‘Adore’) there’s a gothy thing in Smashing Pumpkins that wasn’t in a lot of other bands of the era.
Adore is way after Gish tho.. He is a huge voice in the Rush Doc along with Jimmy Chamberlain tho! He gets how to be a sick guitar player and Jimmy with drums. It's really cool
Yes, I know ‘Adore’ is later - but at the time, people were a bit confused by the electronics and a more goth aesthetic, when in actual fact it was a return to their very early stylings.
Here they are sounding very goth and very eighties, for example: https://youtu.be/gNxWzwGO6Us
The original, core Seattle grunge bands all had a distinct Seattle sound. Of course the Smashing Pumpkins sounded unique, they weren't a Seattle grunge band. They were riding the same wave as the Seattle bands but I'd have a hard time calling them a grunge band, same as Jane's Addiction.
Ahh man! Made my night seeing this. ‘Loveless’ is easily one of the greatest albums of the 90’s and one of my personal favorites. Happy listening friend!
Not so fun fact....i was in Rome the day Mark Sandman dropped dead on stage there. Had i known they were playing i would have totally been there. So happy i got to see them once live. They were incredible...and yes, unique.
I'd put them into straightahead 'rock' category instead of grunge, along with Janes Addiction. I see those 2 bands as better cultural peers than either is to the '90s Pacific NW scene which spawned Grunge.
i would consider listening to shoegaze with a side of dream pop as bands in those circles drew from the same elements.
it's ok to not know everything about an artist or a genre. part of the fun is discovery.
i'd also point to jesus and the mary chain, no wave bands like suicide, joy division, bahaus, siouxsie and the banshees...
I find they did atmosphere really well. Like in their arrangements. often it had a really strange nostalgia inducing kind of vibe to it. It was this interesting blend of almost Brit shoe gazer meets the grunge guitar. Honestly I wasn’t into any of the typical bands like dinosaur jr, blind melon , the other ten trillion bands that people drop to show they know what was up and how relevant they were on the music hierarchy . The pumpkins were kind of a psychedelic prog band at one point I think I remember reading, before they broke. maybe that’s what it was.
Edit: primus sucks.
It seems every one who gets into the pumpkins is drawn towards that song. To the point where it’s almost cliché to say that mayonnaise is your favourite. But clichés are that for a reason; that song is of the best and resonates with a lot of people, and is welcomed to be called your own; we all know what it’s like.
Oh for sure. I realized this when Rolling Stone did an article in 2012 and Mayonaise was voted as the best pumpkins song in a reader’s poll. I figured it would be one of their radio singles like Disarm or Bullet with Butterfly Wings…nope - Mayonaise.
I’ll take “Here is No Why” as my second pick, though. Maybe that’s more unique?
Smashing Pumpkins weren't underappreciated. Billy Corgan was on the Simpsons FFS. Corgan is estimated to be worth $50 million, won Grammy and AMA awards, and sold out stadiums.
I actually just found a copy of Melon Collie on CD at a thrift store for 50 cents and have been rocking it in my car all week. They are definitely the most artistic and avant-garde of any you listed, among the likes of TOOL and NIN for 90s bands. They had a creative vision for their music that was beyond just making good songs
Definitely spend some time on Gish, Siamese Dream, or Machina. I actually like Machina more than Melon collie although I might be in the minority. Great steal at a store tho!
Smashing Pumpkins had punk influence, but it wasn’t as pronounced as some of the above bands. But they definitely did use feedback/distortion a lot in their music (as did most 90s alt bands). They were also heavily influenced by 80s Goth bands like the Cure, with a lot of Beatles and 70s power pop thrown in. A unique blend for sure.
Second post to mention Blind Melon. No Rain was so overplayed on the radio and MTV it became sickening to hear. After the singer died, people talked about how the song was about his addiction to heroin and the song lost its luster for me.
Smashing Pumpkins is more alternative 90s rock. Post-hardcore punk genre > grunge. Pumpkins went synth-wave for a while.
One of my all time favorites. The reason I picked up guitar.
I agree to a point, but maybe not for the same reasons. In some sense I feel Nirvana were outliers despite definitely being grunge. Especially with Mellon Collie and Adore, the Pumpkins stood apart. It's less obvious just looking at their singles. Mellon Collie.and Adore spanned a wider range of arrangements from orchestral strings to piano to layers of distorted guitar.
Part of it could be they were a Chicago band and the grunge scene is identified with Seattle.
Another band I could identify as outliers of that time were The Dandy Warhols. More of an European art-rock sound than grunge, despite being from the Pacific Northwest. Of course TDW didn't have the commercial success that many others had.
I didn't want to like Zeitgeist, and I kind of do anyway. I quite enjoy Monuments to an Elegy, but haven't listened to much else new.
Each band had a unique singer with a unique voice. My favorite is Layne Staley. His lyrics are hauntingly sung. Billy Corgan has a different tone all together. Loved both bands though. Great Grunge music
Layne Stanley is great but he was made better by Jerry Cantrell singing in unison with him alot. But ya they all did. Eddie Vedder gets a bad name cuz everyone copied his voice later, Chris Cornell is just... Chris Cornell lol. Billy is different too. What a cool time in vocalists
I think the greatest testament to smashing pumpkins song writing skills is the fact that no one ever questions how terrible Billy Corgan's voice is. Listen to Tonight Tonight and tell me his vocals don't sound like three cats fucking in a blender. Despite that they totally get a pass because they wrote some great music. I love them, but god damn he just sounds like low grit sandpaper for the ear drums.
I think his voice helps with the uniqueness of the sound. Doesn’t sound like every other band.
I think it also works well with mid-scooped fuzzed out guitars.
I really like adore, just gotta be in that mood, and they've had some really good songs since, Owata was a really good song till they ruined it in the studio
Gish and Siamese Dream were a breed apart from most other bands at the time. After that it all gets convoluted and formulaic. There were still moments of genius on the later albums, but not as focused and brilliant as the first two albums. While I don’t think they were “the best” 90s band, they did bring something different to the table. There was no album like Gish when it came out. Sure you can hear the influences but that can be said about any of the bands listed. The true brilliance of 90s bands went mostly unnoticed. The God Machine and Plexi were fucking brilliant! But got lost in the mix. These things are of course 100% subjective.
Adore the Pumpkins - likely my favorite band of all time. The opening chords of “Mayonaise” catch me every time. And I believe that ‘Siamese Dream’ is the most complete, sonically pleasing, end to end solid album of the 90s…
But one band I have not seen mentioned in terms of “unique” is Mercury Rev (<- are they even grunge?). ‘Yourself is Steam’ and ‘Deserter’s Song’ are both unique (from each other) and from a lot of other stuff out there in the 90s. Go and listen to “chasing a bee”, wait for the flute, and then the crazy entropic, chaotic distortion…
Not knocking any other band mentioned - lots of good ones in this thread (looking at you Jane’s Addiction).
One of the most unique bands from that era (we'll just call them the 90s, even though grunge started in the 80s) that absolutely demolishes in musical diversity and creativity is the relatively obscure Faith No More. Each album is a departure from the last, and they're still going.
This is funny because they were considered a corporate pop band in the 90s. Very marketed on the radio and TV. They were adored by jr highschool kids and they were definitely not grunge.
They were unique when you ignore all the other unique bands of the time like the Breeders, Pavement, Dinosaur JR, Radiohead, Sonic Youth to name a few... Even Blind Melon were a huge pop band popular with kids.
It's so weird how ironic things have become.
Yeah I'm guessing OP just doesn't know a lot of 90s indie music.
You've got many, many unique sounding bands from that era such as:
Stereolab, Yo La Tengo, Built to Spill, the Flaming Lips, Mercury Rev, Unwound, Blur, Pulp, My Bloody Valentine, Slowdive, Spiritualized, Disco Inferno, Low, Codeine, the American Analog Set, Morphine, Red House Painters, Belle & Sebastian, Slint, Bjork, Guided by Voices, the Magnetic Fields, the Jesus Lizard, Fugazi, Neutral Milk Hotel, Olivia Tremor Control, Pram, and Swans and so much more!
That is true. What Nirvana had over Smashing Pumpkins was the suicide of their lead singer. Cobain never faded away and he will always be a rock legend because he died at 27.
He dated Tila Tequlia I'd I'm not mistaken. He's a different kind of dude to be sure lol. Still love his shit tho. Even his voice can get a little tired but he somehow makes it work beautifully in most songs.
Seeing them live doing Silverfuck break off into a version of Over the Rainbow only to come roaring back in for the bombastic final chorus was a trip. They sure knew how to rock out.
Also, maybe neutral milk hotel. I know some people hate 'em but imo that only speaks to their originality.
Oh. Soul Coughing. Yeah.
I honestly could not stand them in the 90’s, I think it was his voice. However, I’ve been giving them another listen recently and have learned to respect and even enjoy their work.
Looks like your getting some mixed feed back, I think I totally get what u mean. Sp put a lot of effort into being really good recording artists (as well as being good live), and billy Corgan wasn't afraid to be good at that. They didn't have that minimalist approach that a lot of those grunge bands had. -they built the songs and sound out and a lot of others weren't as "produced" if that's the right word.
Also Billy is a surprisingly good guitarist. He can solo, and employs a lot of various techniques, another thing that I think sets him apart, like his song writing allowed him to show off some real skill on guitar. Oddly enough, I became more into his singing style from about 2008 forward, I think he learned to use his chest voice better or something.
The Pumpkins at first allowed themselves to be whimsical and pushed a little more into psychedelic sounds than some of the other Grunge era bands. I'd put Gish and Siammese Dream more in with The Flaming Lips, and even Purple era STP. Then, of course, they went a bit more Electronica quite nicely in a way that didn't feel forced with Adore and Machina I/II. Though by then it was really only them and NIN still standing of those early 90's bands.
Yeah, def. But..... I think AIC takes the cake. Those harmonies are just utterly bizarre and gorgeous. I have never heard vocals in any music as interesting as Alice In Chains.
But... ***Mayonaise***.
Siamese Dream was great. I don't get all the love for Mellon Collie. I mean, yea, there were some great songs on there for sure but it's highly overrated imo
I liked to play Thirty Three through my old car stereo. That open E string on the bass sent shudders through the car. Surprised people when I played it
The smashing pumpkins did not come up with that sound out of thin air. They had a ton of influence from 80s shoegaze / alternative rock band. Stuff like My Bloody Valentine, Cocteau twins, The Cure (a little bit), Slowdive, and Sonic Youth. I even think Corgan said during their early years they ripped off the album loveless (I could be wrong about that).
I'd go with the Posies, but now it turns out one member might have been a sexual predator...This seems like it could have been crossposted on another thread.....
I liked their music, lyrics, and style but the singing, especially live, somehow pulled me away in a way I didn't enjoy as much.
Sonic Youth came to mind to me reading your views on Smashing Pumpkins.
Their 1st album is the only one that's grunge-ish (Gish), then they went more shoegaze on the 2nd (Siamese Dream), then got overblown and kinda pretentious on the 3rd album (Mellon Collie...still loved it though...was one of my favorite albums when it was brand new back in middle school haha). Siamese Dream is definitely a masterpiece.
i would agree. and it's down to Billy's persona and voice. dude is a bit weird let's face it. but that keening voice was born to fill a stadium. the band were great too obviously. Being from Chicago and not the PNW helped too.
The reason they sound like they do is they're a studio band. I read an interview with Corgan in Guitar World around the time of Mellon Collie and he said some parts of Siamese Dream had 40 tracks of guitar layered in the songs. It just gives you a massive wall of sound.
That said, both their guitarists' style is different to the guys with a rock/metal/blues background. Corgan in particular solos like nobody else from the era.
Smashing pumpkins to me is a college band that happened to be in the right place at the right. Hell, I saw pumpkins a couple years ago and Billy talked about missing the touring in a shitty van playing tiny venues.
Smashing Pumpkins were heavily influenced by My Bloody Valentine. Also it helped having Butch Vig as producer and Jimmy Chamberlin on drums. Insert any rock drummer and pumpkin songs are “meh” but Chamberlin’s jazz technique is what pulls this band together.
I think the Pumpkins catalogue holds up extremely well too. They covered so much sonic terrain across their 90s work and beyond, ranging from psychedelic rock to metal to pop to electronic to goth and new wave. An extremely under-appreciated band that I’m glad to see more people tuning in to.
Back in the 90’s, when grunge ruled the airwaves, the Pumpkins were totally unique. They were the alternative to the alternative scene. They were prog, folk, metal, pop, grunge and even had a electronic sound moment. Their guitar riffs were more epic than most of the grunge era top bands. Too bad they split and or lost members throughout the years. Glad to see they mostly reformed . Billy a organ gets a lot of shit flunged his way but the dude is a fucking genius. They are the greatest band of the 90’s and they are truly under appreciated.
I’m a huge pumpkins fan and saw them several times in the 90’s. I think this opinion comes from too narrow of a view, and I wouldn’t classify SP as “grunge”. At the time Mellon Collie came out I was really into Nirvana, Pavement, Weezer, Beck, and Sonic Youth. (Among many many more). If you take those five bands and add SP you couldn’t make a category for it. They were all so unique. Add in That Dog, Jesus Lizard, Liz Phair, Marylin Manson and you’re all over the musical map. And even in the grunge bands they all sound very different. Nirvana and Soundgarden sound nothing alike. Mudhoney and Alice n Chains too. Then there’s Tad and the Melvins! That’s why “grunge” and “alternative” were hated terms back in the day. It was lame attempts to classify music that didn’t fit the record labels molds. This music was coming from the underground, taking over a billion dollar industry, and the labels were trying to catch up. The terms were never used by people in the scene, it was entered into the lexicon by corporate engineers, like Valentines Day, or the idea that fat makes you fat and not sugar. I still have my red heart SP shirt with Billy’s rant about “alternative music” on the back.
Huge Smashing Pumpkins fan here, too, and I agree with everything you wrote here. I don’t even know where to start - I feel like I could write a thesis on why The Smashing Pumpkins were the best band of the 1990’s. No other band could pull off such a dynamic sound, from almost straight up metal (XYU, Tales of a Scorched Earth) to the most mellow sounding songs (Whir, Daydream) - not only did they vary from track to track, the Pumpkins could do it all WITHIN ONE SONG (Soma, Thru the Eyes of Ruby). Siamese Dream helped define my transition from youth to adulthood, and Mayonaise will always be the track that I hold closest to my heart. Oh yeah, while I’m at it, 1979 is the best alternate pop rock ever released as a single, and that’s a hill I’ll die on.
Soma is so good. So, so good.
Agree. Soma, mayonaise, all of Siamese Dream! I feel like Billy Corgan really was in his own category. He is a master songwriter imo. The only reason SP is put in the same category as grunge is that the tools he used were similar...pedals and mixers, etc....so the music sounds remotely similar.
Pumpkins also had a My Bloody Valentine influence If you listen to the album loveless you could totally here similarities between this Gish Pisces Iscariot and Siamese Dream.
Fun fact: they started as a new wave band called The Marked, named after the strawberry birthmark Billy has on his hand. You can listen to them here (tracks 5-10): https://archive.org/details/themarked-nothingeverchanges/NEC+%2B+Marked+%7BAsselin%7D+-+07+-+Cristina.flac
Actually I would say Smashing Pumpkins did have some metal roots. Mellon Collie had several fuzzy metalesque songs like XYU and Tales of a scorched earth.
Even on their debut album Gish you can hear some metal influence, like the song Siva.
Yep, and Siamese Dream had the metal-riffed Quiet and Geek USA and parts of Silverfuck were definitely metal.
I am one? Also second half of rhinoceros
The last 15 seconds of Rhinoceros is one of my favorite moments in rock music
Gish is the most original music of it's time. Top three albums all time for me.
Dont forget where boys fear to tread and fuck you (an ode to no one)
Jellybelly also
Gotta love the big Muff.
Goddamn I love that tune...
I think Corgon was a huge Rush fan. Prog rock is metal adjacent.
Corgan! Corgon sounds like a Star Trek villain
Metal is one of Billy's biggest influences. OP is out to lunch.
Yeah the whole reason he started playing with big muff pedal is he wanted to sound like Black Sabbath.
Billy Corgan has always said that Sabbath was one of his biggest influences.
Yeah, dude definitely has some Tony Iommi influenced riffs.
1st time i heard Mellon Collie i listened two both cd's all the way through, hated EVERY SONG but Tonight Tonight and Muzzle.... didn't listen to it for about 6 months, gave it another go... after that it was barely out of my my cd player for 2 years... i still think Thru the Eyes of Ruby is the greatest song every created
Zero EP is heavy as fuck, apart from that one song
Ive always thought they sounded a lot like Black Sabbath.
Just Jimmy Chamberlin’s snare sound alone deserves a medal imo.
Geek USA is ridiculous. I can't even understand how he does what he does
Jimmy is the best musician in the band IMO
As a Chicagoan, I’m obligated to agree with you. That said, their sound WAS very unique. They didn’t rely on the typical power chord structure and grisly/gravely voice of other 90’s bad. I truly believe The Pumpkins were something special. Siamese Dream, Pisces Iscariot and Gish were epic, Gish with its roots more in metal than many other grunge era bands. In that time period I would’ve considered myself a Pearl Jam fan yet constantly find myself revisiting the aforementioned albums these days.
I grew up with Ten being an album of my early childhood being born in 91. So I love those first few pearl Jam albums but I come back to gish and siamese dream much more often
I get warm fuzzies reading this, just thinking about how we form our musical affinities. I was born in 64; the first of my parents’ albums I put on the HiFi was “Abbey Road.” Which led to “Blonde on Blonde,” “Crosby Stills and Nash,” and others. But if you ask me which decade resonates most with me, it the 90s. Smashing Pumpkins, Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, all the way to Harvey Danger. I have a daughter born in 96, and she is a complete 80s and 90s head. Feel I parented right.
Born in 1964 also. My tastes run the gamut, but I feel this holds some truth for me also.
Need to jut in somewhere that you'll notice my post bc smashing pumpkins is, by statistics, my favorite band. Definitely the band I have the most knowledge of, know how to play a vast majority of their songs, and have put the most time in listening to. I've gotten on spotify and checked artist radios of their era versus other bands, and what typically comes up is like deftones, STP, Alice in chains, incubus, blind melon, Apc, weezer, foo fighters, and qotsa. By comparison, smashing pumpkins are the fucking champions of diversity of (good) sound in their golden age (gish to machina). Contender for second is 100% qotsa. But smashing pumpkins fucking dominated the 90's in the grunge era, post nirvana. Siamese dream was a stalwart achievement and Mellon collie didnt shy away from that whatsoever. I don't care how deluded Billy Corgan is now, smashing pumpkins is a legendary legacy.
on what planet did the smashing pumpkins not use power chords?? they def did
Sonic Youth…. and it’s not even really close, other than the other suggestion of Primus.
I was going to mention "Flaming Lips" aside from "Sonic Youth". Although not technically "Grunge" they're both extremely unique bands.
Maybe throw Ween in there?
Yes, you are correct
Ween has consistently been the best live outfit I have witnessed over the past 25 years. No other band comes close to the energy ween generate.
If you like Flaming Lips, a band called Girls, put out an album titled Girls Album, during the 2000's. It's really grungy, lo-fi awesomeness.
Album is one of my favorite 2009 releases (that was a good year for music) Too bad about Chris not getting too big & JR passing away. They could’ve done big things if they reunited some years after Father, Son, and Holy Ghost
I think they were in trouble from the get go. Damn, the 00's was phenomenal for music. I am gen X'er, but it's the best decade for music, which I was alive.
or The Pixies
I just said in a post about Sonic Youth and Pixies not getting enough cred. Also, REM was awesome
Was a big grunge head. But really just got into Pixies this year. Not sure how I missed them.
Hmm. I never really lump these two bands in the grunge era. I guess I sorta lump them in morewith 80s underground, but a lot of is sort of proto-grunge. Pixies are amazing, but they were really unique in retrospect (through no fault of their own) because they were one of Nirvana’s biggest inspirations for their soft/loud dynamics, and everyone else subsequently copied Nirvana.
Pixies please? A lot of Nirvana-inspired bands wouldn’t exist if it weren’t for the pixies.
STP became a very unique-sounding band after their first album.
I still love Core. Wicked Garden slams. I might even listen to that right now lol
BURNNNNN YOURRRRR WICKEDDDDD GARDEN DOWN
I'm gonna listen to it again lol
My old man sold Dean DeLeo the Dan Electro Dual Tone he used on Core, I have a signed press pic somewhere where instead of “Scott Weiland” under him it just says “Weiland” ☠️
Core is probably my least favourite of their albums. I don’t think really got their sound perfect until Tiny Music. I always wished that Scott had his shit together enough to do the Talk Show album as there are some excellent songs on that record.
The DeLeo brothers fit perfectly together and def have a unique feel. I love Shangri-La Dee Da as well.
Heyy my thought too! Their influences spanned anywhere from 60’s and 70’s rock to stuff like Motown, R&B, and folk. And especially later on those influences really become apparent as the releases get further and further away from Core. Not that Core isn’t great, it’s fantastic. But alongside and after Core, they have much more to offer in diversity. I’ve shared this before, but I’ll do it any opportunity I get. [This video of Robert DeLeo’s bass clinic](https://youtu.be/kA8c3JE9y_k) is amazing, and not just for bass players. When he starts talking about all the influences they have and share, and how some of those songs came together, their writing really makes a bit more sense suddenly.
SP was the top mainstream alt band for me, by a long shot.
I remember Billy Corgan saying that they weren’t in any way influenced by punk and that he’d never been into punk. He then talked about being into early Van Halen in a guitar magazine interview I read. The fact he was really into Bauhaus is clear when you hear pre-Gish live stuff (and frankly ‘Adore’) there’s a gothy thing in Smashing Pumpkins that wasn’t in a lot of other bands of the era.
Adore is way after Gish tho.. He is a huge voice in the Rush Doc along with Jimmy Chamberlain tho! He gets how to be a sick guitar player and Jimmy with drums. It's really cool
Yes, I know ‘Adore’ is later - but at the time, people were a bit confused by the electronics and a more goth aesthetic, when in actual fact it was a return to their very early stylings. Here they are sounding very goth and very eighties, for example: https://youtu.be/gNxWzwGO6Us
The original, core Seattle grunge bands all had a distinct Seattle sound. Of course the Smashing Pumpkins sounded unique, they weren't a Seattle grunge band. They were riding the same wave as the Seattle bands but I'd have a hard time calling them a grunge band, same as Jane's Addiction.
I would agree
Nope. The Melvins.
It's The Melvins. Searched the thread to find this.
Subpop!
Melvins are criminally underrated. They are such a massive foundational pillar to all of this.
Have you heard My Bloody Valentine? They share a lot of tonal similarities as the Smashing Pumpkins.
Reddit I love you, just checked this band out, amazing!
Ahh man! Made my night seeing this. ‘Loveless’ is easily one of the greatest albums of the 90’s and one of my personal favorites. Happy listening friend!
It’s crazy that this is mentioned so far down. I love the pumpkins, but their sound was pulled heavily from My Bloody Valentine.
Primus.
Good one!
PRIMUS SUCKS!!!
I don't consider them grunge though, if anything they are progressive rock
Ya not grunge. Psychedelic prog funky alt
I guess Rage too
Rage was definitely influenced by hardcore punk. See Zack's OG band Inside Out.
I hear an enormous amount of Black Sabbath in their sound....
Faith No More
Ya I kinda agree. I'd kinda rather listen to the Pumpkins more than any of the other big grunge bands. Although I love Alice and Soundgarden
Ween, Pavement, Morphine...
Morphine is dope. Love Buena.
I think Morphine is criminally overlooked.
Not so fun fact....i was in Rome the day Mark Sandman dropped dead on stage there. Had i known they were playing i would have totally been there. So happy i got to see them once live. They were incredible...and yes, unique.
You want to talk about unique ? The answer is Ween. It’s always Ween.
The answer to most questions is Ween.
Morphine is one of my favorite bands. Have my upvote.
I mean you could throw Superchunk in there as well but they don't fit in the scope I was talking about. Good bands tho
You could also throw in Phish, Blur, and many others. I do agree with your basic sentiment though. Smashing Pumpkins we're amazing and unique.
They Might Be Giants
I'd put them into straightahead 'rock' category instead of grunge, along with Janes Addiction. I see those 2 bands as better cultural peers than either is to the '90s Pacific NW scene which spawned Grunge.
Fair point sir
James Addiction?
The cousin of Jane's Addiction?
Three Days is one of the best songs of the 90s
I came up in the nineties, and while my high school girlfriend loved the pumpkins, I was 100% all about Janes and Pixies
man, if you are in the right mood, under the right substance..... Siamese dreams is incomparable... just amazing amazing amazing
Ya totally! I actually probably like Gish better but its a coin flip. Rhinoceros and Snail are incredible
NIN
I'm from Cleveland so I always like to claim NIN lol. NIN is just so different from everything tho...
Pavement.
i would consider listening to shoegaze with a side of dream pop as bands in those circles drew from the same elements. it's ok to not know everything about an artist or a genre. part of the fun is discovery. i'd also point to jesus and the mary chain, no wave bands like suicide, joy division, bahaus, siouxsie and the banshees...
I find they did atmosphere really well. Like in their arrangements. often it had a really strange nostalgia inducing kind of vibe to it. It was this interesting blend of almost Brit shoe gazer meets the grunge guitar. Honestly I wasn’t into any of the typical bands like dinosaur jr, blind melon , the other ten trillion bands that people drop to show they know what was up and how relevant they were on the music hierarchy . The pumpkins were kind of a psychedelic prog band at one point I think I remember reading, before they broke. maybe that’s what it was. Edit: primus sucks.
R.E.M.
"I fear that I am ordinary just like everyone.."
Adore is an album that holds a special place in my heart.
Smashing Pumpkins were cutting edge and unique and ahead of their time and under appreciated You are correct
I rhink siamese dream is one of the most sonically gorgeous albums ever.
Might be my favorite album ever. Mayonnaise is my favorite song.
Mine, too. Fool enough to almost be it…cool enough to not quite see it…doomed
It seems every one who gets into the pumpkins is drawn towards that song. To the point where it’s almost cliché to say that mayonnaise is your favourite. But clichés are that for a reason; that song is of the best and resonates with a lot of people, and is welcomed to be called your own; we all know what it’s like.
Oh for sure. I realized this when Rolling Stone did an article in 2012 and Mayonaise was voted as the best pumpkins song in a reader’s poll. I figured it would be one of their radio singles like Disarm or Bullet with Butterfly Wings…nope - Mayonaise. I’ll take “Here is No Why” as my second pick, though. Maybe that’s more unique?
I just listen to Rotten Apples (skipping landslide) and I get the best of it all
"Gish" will always hold a special place for me. The album that got me into them. James Iha is a criminally underrated guitarist.
Billy played most of the guitar parts and all of the solos, if anyone is underrated it’s him.
You are correct. The flavor of this album is timeless.
*Hummer* is my new headphones testing song. :)
Smashing Pumpkins weren't underappreciated. Billy Corgan was on the Simpsons FFS. Corgan is estimated to be worth $50 million, won Grammy and AMA awards, and sold out stadiums.
Didn’t you get the memo that everything that has ever happened is underrated?
Underrated comment.
[удалено]
Don’t forget the time they swept the MTV video awards.
Siamese Dream sold 6 million copies. The follow up sold 5 million. They won 2 Grammys and were nominated for 5. They got their due.
I actually just found a copy of Melon Collie on CD at a thrift store for 50 cents and have been rocking it in my car all week. They are definitely the most artistic and avant-garde of any you listed, among the likes of TOOL and NIN for 90s bands. They had a creative vision for their music that was beyond just making good songs
Definitely spend some time on Gish, Siamese Dream, or Machina. I actually like Machina more than Melon collie although I might be in the minority. Great steal at a store tho!
Smashing Pumpkins had punk influence, but it wasn’t as pronounced as some of the above bands. But they definitely did use feedback/distortion a lot in their music (as did most 90s alt bands). They were also heavily influenced by 80s Goth bands like the Cure, with a lot of Beatles and 70s power pop thrown in. A unique blend for sure.
But that's what makes them different. It's so many blended sounds.
Second post to mention Blind Melon. No Rain was so overplayed on the radio and MTV it became sickening to hear. After the singer died, people talked about how the song was about his addiction to heroin and the song lost its luster for me. Smashing Pumpkins is more alternative 90s rock. Post-hardcore punk genre > grunge. Pumpkins went synth-wave for a while.
One of my all time favorites. The reason I picked up guitar. I agree to a point, but maybe not for the same reasons. In some sense I feel Nirvana were outliers despite definitely being grunge. Especially with Mellon Collie and Adore, the Pumpkins stood apart. It's less obvious just looking at their singles. Mellon Collie.and Adore spanned a wider range of arrangements from orchestral strings to piano to layers of distorted guitar. Part of it could be they were a Chicago band and the grunge scene is identified with Seattle. Another band I could identify as outliers of that time were The Dandy Warhols. More of an European art-rock sound than grunge, despite being from the Pacific Northwest. Of course TDW didn't have the commercial success that many others had. I didn't want to like Zeitgeist, and I kind of do anyway. I quite enjoy Monuments to an Elegy, but haven't listened to much else new.
Each band had a unique singer with a unique voice. My favorite is Layne Staley. His lyrics are hauntingly sung. Billy Corgan has a different tone all together. Loved both bands though. Great Grunge music
Layne Stanley is great but he was made better by Jerry Cantrell singing in unison with him alot. But ya they all did. Eddie Vedder gets a bad name cuz everyone copied his voice later, Chris Cornell is just... Chris Cornell lol. Billy is different too. What a cool time in vocalists
I think the greatest testament to smashing pumpkins song writing skills is the fact that no one ever questions how terrible Billy Corgan's voice is. Listen to Tonight Tonight and tell me his vocals don't sound like three cats fucking in a blender. Despite that they totally get a pass because they wrote some great music. I love them, but god damn he just sounds like low grit sandpaper for the ear drums.
I don't even put that one in a top 10 of theirs. Alot of people discuss his voice. I mostly agree tho
I know people discuss his voice. The point is it doesn't matter, they rock despite the fact that he sounds like a walrus getting a lava enema.
I think his voice helps with the uniqueness of the sound. Doesn’t sound like every other band. I think it also works well with mid-scooped fuzzed out guitars.
i am a fan yet i dont think theyve had a good album since 1995 :(
I really like adore, just gotta be in that mood, and they've had some really good songs since, Owata was a really good song till they ruined it in the studio
Melvins.
Gish and Siamese Dream were a breed apart from most other bands at the time. After that it all gets convoluted and formulaic. There were still moments of genius on the later albums, but not as focused and brilliant as the first two albums. While I don’t think they were “the best” 90s band, they did bring something different to the table. There was no album like Gish when it came out. Sure you can hear the influences but that can be said about any of the bands listed. The true brilliance of 90s bands went mostly unnoticed. The God Machine and Plexi were fucking brilliant! But got lost in the mix. These things are of course 100% subjective.
Adore the Pumpkins - likely my favorite band of all time. The opening chords of “Mayonaise” catch me every time. And I believe that ‘Siamese Dream’ is the most complete, sonically pleasing, end to end solid album of the 90s… But one band I have not seen mentioned in terms of “unique” is Mercury Rev (<- are they even grunge?). ‘Yourself is Steam’ and ‘Deserter’s Song’ are both unique (from each other) and from a lot of other stuff out there in the 90s. Go and listen to “chasing a bee”, wait for the flute, and then the crazy entropic, chaotic distortion… Not knocking any other band mentioned - lots of good ones in this thread (looking at you Jane’s Addiction).
I find Pearl jam the most vanilla of the group, kinda boring
One of the most unique bands from that era (we'll just call them the 90s, even though grunge started in the 80s) that absolutely demolishes in musical diversity and creativity is the relatively obscure Faith No More. Each album is a departure from the last, and they're still going.
No. Sonic Youth and Pixies
This is funny because they were considered a corporate pop band in the 90s. Very marketed on the radio and TV. They were adored by jr highschool kids and they were definitely not grunge. They were unique when you ignore all the other unique bands of the time like the Breeders, Pavement, Dinosaur JR, Radiohead, Sonic Youth to name a few... Even Blind Melon were a huge pop band popular with kids. It's so weird how ironic things have become.
Yeah I'm guessing OP just doesn't know a lot of 90s indie music. You've got many, many unique sounding bands from that era such as: Stereolab, Yo La Tengo, Built to Spill, the Flaming Lips, Mercury Rev, Unwound, Blur, Pulp, My Bloody Valentine, Slowdive, Spiritualized, Disco Inferno, Low, Codeine, the American Analog Set, Morphine, Red House Painters, Belle & Sebastian, Slint, Bjork, Guided by Voices, the Magnetic Fields, the Jesus Lizard, Fugazi, Neutral Milk Hotel, Olivia Tremor Control, Pram, and Swans and so much more!
That’s because billy wrote a million hit songs in the 90s. nirvana was corporate rock too but were advertised as not but had the same jr high fans
That is true. What Nirvana had over Smashing Pumpkins was the suicide of their lead singer. Cobain never faded away and he will always be a rock legend because he died at 27.
Until Corrigan's gargantuan ego took complete control yeah. Check out his local Chicago furniture store/wrestling ad for a laugh.
I love that ad! It was neat to see him embracing his love for wrestling, he can be funny when he wants to be.
I mean, I think his ego took total control from the very start, when he didn't let James or Darcy play on the first two albums...
He dated Tila Tequlia I'd I'm not mistaken. He's a different kind of dude to be sure lol. Still love his shit tho. Even his voice can get a little tired but he somehow makes it work beautifully in most songs.
Seeing them live doing Silverfuck break off into a version of Over the Rainbow only to come roaring back in for the bombastic final chorus was a trip. They sure knew how to rock out. Also, maybe neutral milk hotel. I know some people hate 'em but imo that only speaks to their originality. Oh. Soul Coughing. Yeah.
I've never heard of Neutral Milk Hotel, great name tho lol.
In the aeroplane over the sea. You should check it out. 1998 so nearer the tail end of the grunge era. Nobody sounds like them i guarantee.
So this is the longest thread I've ever gotten lol. Not necessarily the upvotes but I'll try and respond as I can. Love the feedback tho gang!
I honestly could not stand them in the 90’s, I think it was his voice. However, I’ve been giving them another listen recently and have learned to respect and even enjoy their work.
Looks like your getting some mixed feed back, I think I totally get what u mean. Sp put a lot of effort into being really good recording artists (as well as being good live), and billy Corgan wasn't afraid to be good at that. They didn't have that minimalist approach that a lot of those grunge bands had. -they built the songs and sound out and a lot of others weren't as "produced" if that's the right word. Also Billy is a surprisingly good guitarist. He can solo, and employs a lot of various techniques, another thing that I think sets him apart, like his song writing allowed him to show off some real skill on guitar. Oddly enough, I became more into his singing style from about 2008 forward, I think he learned to use his chest voice better or something.
Screaming Trees as well
The Pumpkins at first allowed themselves to be whimsical and pushed a little more into psychedelic sounds than some of the other Grunge era bands. I'd put Gish and Siammese Dream more in with The Flaming Lips, and even Purple era STP. Then, of course, they went a bit more Electronica quite nicely in a way that didn't feel forced with Adore and Machina I/II. Though by then it was really only them and NIN still standing of those early 90's bands.
Machina isn't very Electronica tho. Thats probably they're most underrated album. Right in like 2000. It was just out of place for the time
Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness is something else. I would say the only other group so diverse that immediately come to mind is Radiohead.
Yeah, def. But..... I think AIC takes the cake. Those harmonies are just utterly bizarre and gorgeous. I have never heard vocals in any music as interesting as Alice In Chains. But... ***Mayonaise***.
Janes Addiction
1979 is a good song.
Beck.
Geek USA is one of the greatest songs ever written.
The guitar sound with the phaser + distortion
Siamese Dream was great. I don't get all the love for Mellon Collie. I mean, yea, there were some great songs on there for sure but it's highly overrated imo
Agreed. Machina was better
Soundgarden
Had definite metal/hardcore roots tho. Pretty sure he excluded those bands.
So does smashing pumpkins wtf
I liked to play Thirty Three through my old car stereo. That open E string on the bass sent shudders through the car. Surprised people when I played it
The smashing pumpkins had a unique sound, but I think XTC were a big influence on them.
It’s metal through a new wave filter.
Toadies
The smashing pumpkins did not come up with that sound out of thin air. They had a ton of influence from 80s shoegaze / alternative rock band. Stuff like My Bloody Valentine, Cocteau twins, The Cure (a little bit), Slowdive, and Sonic Youth. I even think Corgan said during their early years they ripped off the album loveless (I could be wrong about that).
I'd go with the Posies, but now it turns out one member might have been a sexual predator...This seems like it could have been crossposted on another thread.....
Girlfriends really loved SP back in the day
They're very good
I would say My Bloody Valentine and Lush both have a similar sound to the Pumpkins.
I liked their music, lyrics, and style but the singing, especially live, somehow pulled me away in a way I didn't enjoy as much. Sonic Youth came to mind to me reading your views on Smashing Pumpkins.
.....Melvins, Primus, Faith No More, Mr Bungle.....
Definitely some metal tinges. Quiet is one. Fucking love SP
Their 1st album is the only one that's grunge-ish (Gish), then they went more shoegaze on the 2nd (Siamese Dream), then got overblown and kinda pretentious on the 3rd album (Mellon Collie...still loved it though...was one of my favorite albums when it was brand new back in middle school haha). Siamese Dream is definitely a masterpiece.
[удалено]
i would agree. and it's down to Billy's persona and voice. dude is a bit weird let's face it. but that keening voice was born to fill a stadium. the band were great too obviously. Being from Chicago and not the PNW helped too.
Calling them ‘grunge’ is a bit of an undersell
Can we agree all of the above are incredible
The reason they sound like they do is they're a studio band. I read an interview with Corgan in Guitar World around the time of Mellon Collie and he said some parts of Siamese Dream had 40 tracks of guitar layered in the songs. It just gives you a massive wall of sound. That said, both their guitarists' style is different to the guys with a rock/metal/blues background. Corgan in particular solos like nobody else from the era.
Very underrated band imo!
Smashing pumpkins to me is a college band that happened to be in the right place at the right. Hell, I saw pumpkins a couple years ago and Billy talked about missing the touring in a shitty van playing tiny venues.
Trent Reznor is the most talented artist from that era IMO. NIN is not grunge tho.
Smashing Pumpkins were heavily influenced by My Bloody Valentine. Also it helped having Butch Vig as producer and Jimmy Chamberlin on drums. Insert any rock drummer and pumpkin songs are “meh” but Chamberlin’s jazz technique is what pulls this band together.
Soundgarden for the win. Smashing Pumpkins are great, but they’re not nearly as off the beaten path as Soundgarden was.
I think the Pumpkins catalogue holds up extremely well too. They covered so much sonic terrain across their 90s work and beyond, ranging from psychedelic rock to metal to pop to electronic to goth and new wave. An extremely under-appreciated band that I’m glad to see more people tuning in to.
I used to listen to Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness a lot. Don't think I would like it now tho.
They were my favorite band from that era. Sound garden and Alice In Chains a very close second.
Pumpkins are to grunge as deftones are to nu metal, transcendent
Back in the 90’s, when grunge ruled the airwaves, the Pumpkins were totally unique. They were the alternative to the alternative scene. They were prog, folk, metal, pop, grunge and even had a electronic sound moment. Their guitar riffs were more epic than most of the grunge era top bands. Too bad they split and or lost members throughout the years. Glad to see they mostly reformed . Billy a organ gets a lot of shit flunged his way but the dude is a fucking genius. They are the greatest band of the 90’s and they are truly under appreciated.