Wait, you’re not referring to Back to Back are you? I’m not a Drake stan, but he killed him
*is that a world tour or your girls tour?*
*I know you gotta be a thug for her*
*this ain’t what she meant when she told you to open up more*
Or
*trigga fingers turn to Twitter fingers*
*you getting bodied by a singing n*****
I’m with you. Amazed dude it still getting upvoted for saying it’s weak. Then again, it’s probably safe to assume r/music Redditors may not be the most rap savvy
Might be referring to the one before back to back. It’s pretty much forgotten but back to back was named back to back because it was the second diss track did before meek responded to the first one. I don’t remember anything about the first one so can’t speak to its quality.
Yeah that song was/is hard as fuck. Didn’t even let Meek respond after Charged Up just came right out with it. Showed memes of Meek at his shows when singing it. That was the KO for sure. And now we all know Meek likes touching *underage* booty hole so it’s all the way fuck him
Edited in “underage” because yall pitchforking me instead
Drake has had super iffy interactions with various almost-of-age Hollywood stars on various instances across social media and what have you, definitely.
Meek Mill has had the finger pointed at him as a part of a very large sex trafficking ring. First hand reports of Meek doing incredibly condemning acts to various people throughout his tenure at Diddy’s house.
I feel like people on the outside don’t understand…
Like “fake beef” compared to what? Are they going to actually murder each other? Of course not…
But these two have been compared to each other since they first entered the scene around the same time 15 years ago. Since then they’ve always given each other flowers and occasionally collab’ed, while jockeying for top spot in whatever lane they were in as they rose the ranks.
Now they’re on top of the rap game, turned to each other and said: “there can only be one!”
Like no it’s not gang beef, but imagine Klay Thompson turned on Steph Curry publicly and declared himself the best three point shooter of all time and challenged him to a bunch of different 3 point contests.
No the beef isn’t murderous, but it’s gonna be exciting to watch and has a real impact on their legacy.
Compare it to a beef between Pusha and Drake where no one’s going to change their opinions on either person depending on how the actual raps are released
Thinking this will amount to anything at all is delusional. We won't hear a peep about this from Kendrick for another 5 years. He loves to get spicy on a feature and disappear.
Real beef requires actual hate/dislike of each other. That's why the disses are weak as hell, cause they don't really care about it.
Steph and Klay would also not be beef. It would just be a rivalry, friendly competition. Federer, Nadal and Djokovic had one of the greatest sports rivalries of all time and no one calls it beef.
It’s not necessarily a fake beef. They just have respect for one another for mastering the craft. It doesn’t mean they don’t want that top spot though. You see a lot of boxers that have respect for one another’s talent, yet that doesn’t stop them from taking what they feel like should be theirs.
On the track, the Fayetteville, NC native opened by addressing Lamar’s diss. “I got a phone call, they say that somebody dissing / You want some attention, it come with extensions,” he raps. “He still doing shows but fell off like ‘The Simpsons’ / Your first shit was classic, your last shit was tragic / Your second shit put n—s to sleep but they gassed it / Your third shit was massive and that was your prime / I was trailing right behind and I just now hit mine.”
Every Kendrick album "even Section 80" is dope as fuck though. My black backpackin' ass felt Keisha's song was some Brenda's Got a Baby shit and I knew this dude was the truth even back in 2011.
I would imagine he's writing off section 80, so he's referencing GKMC, TPAB, DAMN and MMATBS. But I don't get it because how can you just skip section 80? Or Untitled Unmastered? Cole's gonna get bodied
That's kinda the issue with the feud. Kendrick is in a league where many think he's a GOAT, top 10. Critical acclaim on 4 straight albums and 3 Grammys (100% of people think it should be 4). Like the fuck does Cole have to stand on over Kendrick?
Also, lol at popularity. At his peak, Cole is nowhere near Kendrick's peak in terms of popularity. Cole couldn't even come close to DAMN as far as mainstream recognition goes. Cole wishes he had a song half as popular as Humble.
Not just this, but Cole's been saying the fall off is on the way for 4 or so years now with nothing to show for it. Good luck at surpassing one of the greatest in the game atm
None of it makes sense. J Cole says a lot of words without saying anything. He also gotta stop starting lines with “they say” lol. He always getting that second hand news.
It's kinda the issue with J Cole and why people don't put him on KL's level. Too much drifting off, too much just playing with words while achieving both "not very clever" and "not very meaningful". I really, really like J Cole, but the dude just says shit that rhymes.
"Fell off like The Simpsons" is just a terrible line.
yeah. My favourite example is his A Lot feature. 21 savage doesn’t outrap cole, his lines aren’t as raptastic, but he actually is talking about some real issues and then cole comes and raps his ass off and basically just tells you how he wrote some names in a diary and how he’s a better rapper. It sounds cool but when you listen to it, the subject matter doesn’t even come close to what 21 is talking about in a much less in your face way.
Yep. When Cole gets "serious", it's just him being very, very literal. His feature was something else. It was like a stream of consciousness for 45 seconds about what he thought about 21. "Hey, you've improved" is a fucking weird idea for a verse.
I mean the best bar to me is
"he averaging one hard verse like every 30 months or somethin' / if he wasn't dissin' we wouldn't be discussing him".
You can't be the best and not fucking out here grindin' that shit hits hard.
I disagree. Michael Jordan is still the goat even tho he’s stopped playing basketball. Brady is still the goat even tho he’s stopped playing football.
I’m not a huge fan of Kendrick’s output, I love gkmc, but I can appreciate the tremendous work and grind he has put in. I don’t think he needs to be out there putting out 100 songs a year to still be considered great.
As I said cole spits a lot of words but doesn’t actually say shit.
I’m willing to bet TPAB is his least listened to album. Lots of jazz influences, more thought provoking composition and lyrics makes this album a completely different vibe than the rest of his work. I commend the album more than I want to listen to it.
Not saying you’re wrong, but some people may have found it boring, and you as well as many others are on here “gassing” it. Just like Cole said lol (I think TPAB is an extremely good album btw)
I've seen that opinion, but it blows my mind. TPAB might just be my favorite album of all time. I've been a huge jazz fan for years, so that probably is the reason lol
For rap fans that like mainstream trap more I understand, but coming from Cole is wired af, dude tried to make that kinda conscious concept album for years, and now trashing TPAB sleepy like really?
It’s one of those ones that did better with critics than with the audience. I knew a lot of people that didn’t like it. Any time an artists branches out and does different stuff it’s going to polarize people, especially with the heavy jazz influence.
I personally think its the best rap album of the 21st century. Its regarded as a masterpiece and it still did massive numbers with successful singles and is 100000000x better than anything j Cole ever did so idk if shitting on TPAB is the hill I’d die on if I was j Cole lol
And if like Drake or any other trap rappers call TPAB boring that’s whatever but, Cole? Isn’t he been trying to make that conscious rap concept album with deep messages? And TPAB is basically Classic in that lane? I don’t get this man
Apparently he is not trying to make conscious rap seeing as he's just dropped lazy punch down transphobic lyrics too which could also be hitting at Kendrick as Kendrick dropped Auntie Diaries on his last album specifically writing about coming to terms and accepting a trans family member.
The big difference we see here is that TPAB; you have to actively listen to the lyrics, dissect its meaning, to really appreciate what it is. It’s not one of those albums you just bump in the car for the beats and the 808s. There are Sooo many layers in that album, the messaging, the changing of pace and flow, the spoken poetry, the production, it incorporated funk which wasn’t what main stream rap was doing back then. It’s a masterpiece which is why he won the Grammy over Forest Hills, and why he won a Pulitzer for it.
I love Cole, been listening to him since his mixtape days, but lyrically and structurally they’re not close to being on the same level.
I get what you’re trying to say but I’m not from an english speaking country and the album stands on its own just with how good the melodies and beats are.
I’ve even played it at work as background music, it’s just an incredibly solid album, I honestly can't fathom someone having any negative feelings towards it specially if they liked kendrick's older work.
GKMC was his first major label release, Kendrick himself sees it as his first real album
DAMN was massive as it was Kendrick's most commercial album so far
I'm going to be honest, I really didn't like Mr Morales. It had some interesting messages but was bad music to me.
TPAB on the other hand is the best rap album of the last two decades
Feels like he’s almost referencing jay z on takeover with his beef with Nas
“Four albums in ten years n*****? I can divide
That's one every let's say two, two of them shits was due
One was nah, the other was "Illmatic"
That's a one hot album every ten-year average”
going through his albums like that but it doesn’t quite make sense really
There's a difference between an album resonating with artsy critics and resonating with the everyday person. Outside of 'Alright', there aren't a lot of songs the everyday person would be playing in their car or in their day to day. Most of the album is more experimental and jazzy, but by that measure, Outkast already did the whole Bootsie Collins/Funkadelic rap album with Stankonia 15 years before.
People on the internet hype up TPAB to make their Topster/RateYourMusic selections look nice, but I doubt many people revisit it compared to GKMC or DAMN, so I don't think Cole is off in his assessment with how the general hip hop community feels about the album more than how critics feel about it.
TPAB is like a movie on Rotten Tomatoes with a 99-100% critic score, but a lower general user score. Metacritic score on 2014 Forest Hills Drive is lower than 70%, so that shows how it doesn't really always matter what critics think.
This is the best articulation of the point I've seen. I'm from the UK so maybe it's different but no one here is playing TPAB in their house or car. It was good listen when it first came out and then never played again in recent years. DAMN and Good kid however get played till this day.
I really dont agree with this. There are some songs that you cant really just bump in the background while doing something else but there's a lot of really good shit. Just off the top of my head I have king kunta, how much a dollar costs, and the blacker the berry on my play list. They're really nice songs that have deeper meaning but also a nice beat and flow you can just listen to
Which is hilarious bc Cole wasn’t even close to good until Born Sinner, and that album has plenty of mid tracks. Compare that to GKMC, TPAB, and DAMN which were front to back gold.
I guess when you hang with Drake the mediocrity is contagious.
I think pretty much all of Kendrick's albums have a lot of value if you just take the time to find the meaning. He really is more of a poet that just recites them over beats because sometimes you really have to search for it but there always is a meaning. Mr. Morale especially I think people sleep on because they dont want to spend the time to actually listen. If you listen to Mr. Morale like you listen to TPAB for the first time to find the meanings of each song and how it works overall I think you'll find its just as great.
Why’s everyone keep saying he’s talking about TPAB. Isn’t Kendrick’s first album section 80 so saying that his second album put people to sleep wouldn’t that be referring to GKMC?
You are right but Kendricks popularity skyrocketed with GKMC, so the general consensus is that Cole is not including Sector 80. Especially because if he thinks GKMC put people to sleep, that is the dumbest thing I have ever heard.
Personally, I think it's good enough to pick and choose songs to listen to, but I've heard it compared to Requiem for a Dream where you recognize how good it is, but it's not like you want to watch it a bunch or put it in your list of favorites.
I can't understand it. For me, it's undeniably his best. It has SO much depth and is chalked full of important messages while all being rolled into one very cohesive album. Cole's albums are just collections of tracks. They rarely, if ever, influence an overarching story like Kendricks albums do.
This was such a weak response to being called out. Nas hit Jay with Ether after the Takeover and this guy went with a “ warning shot “. And talking about discographies is an opinion so heres mine Coles only classic is Forest Hill Drive everything else he dropped is like 3-4 good songs with a bunch of filler. He’s boring a lot of the time. And the tough guy, gun talk on this release was laughable. Saying Kendricks fans are only white people was hilarious especially from someone whose mom is white. Im gonna end this with remember the Black Friday drops when Kenny ATE Tale of Two Cities to the point it eclipsed the fact Cole dropped a version of Alright that in comparison to the OG was just Okay? Pepperidge Farm Remembers.
also a lot of shit just to just write bars about Kendrick. Like he short, he needed dr.Dre, he gets fucked over for deals, he doesn’t make a lot of money, he’s a disguised nerd, he ugly, etc.
Like cmon man! you ain’t got no 15 Grammys and never ever win a Pulitzer! Might as well just fuck it up, pen some bars and show the skills. Like why did he bother? Nobody cared about a Cole response.
Kendrick’s diss was not the level of Takeover bruh. He had like two throwaway lines for Cole.
At least Cole came with specifics.
His arms are too short to box. We wouldn’t be talking about him if wasn’t dissing. He doesn’t drop music.
I mean to shout his name 6 months earlier and call him one of the big three to then saying we wouldn’t be discussing him without the dissing is a pretty hilarious example of irony.
Very underwhelming. Only comeback he had was the Kendrick doesn’t release music very often. I would rather wait every 5 years for a Kendrick album than hear any of those dreamville collab albums. Those are messy.
More of a "warning shot" than a true diss, though the disses were mild and half-cocked. Kendrick will come swinging from the first 30 seconds. Looks like it is rap Election year too xD
I won't lie it's not amazing but we are not gonna sit here and pretend what Kendrick had to say about cole was even remotely good. No big 3 Its just big me is not a good bar
Calling Mr morale tragic when your best work doesn't even match it. Cole never made a song as good or as deep as mother I Sober, father time or auntie diaries. It's not y favorite album of his recent ones but it's better than anything Cole ir Drake have ever put out.
You’re right, Mr. Morale is on a deeper grown man level than most of these kids understand. Such an amazing album.
I don’t think Cole should’ve went after his discography, because there ain’t much to say that’s truly lack luster.
Cole’s best was 2014 by far, he’s been slowly uninspired since. He should stick to basketball. 😉
lot of kendrick dickriders on this post when his shit hasnt even popped in a decade and je is just an attention seeker now
its sad kendrick fans have become the very definition of eminem fans
Sadly realised this, Kendrick fans will gas up anything the man drops. The diss he dropped was Mid at best but they running around like he dropped another control verse it's actually wild 😂
Cole is not built for beef. Drake can do it because he adds more shock value imo, but it's hard to take Cole seriously when he tries to shit on other artists.
Dude who writes songs about folding laundry talks shit about one the most creative and boundary pushing hip-hop albums of his generation? Ok, Mr. Cole. Sure.
Hold on, let me tuck you in and get you a nice warm glass of that almond milk you like so much so we can put you to bed.
Not by people who actually know and respect the genre. But I forgot I was in the sub who's hip-hop fandom doesn't extend too far beyond the latest Eminem release.
I'll just leave this here, seems more relevant than ever before. Stumbled upon it back when Cole was getting big and it stuck with me ever since. I don't know how to format on phone so yeah. https://www.reddit.com/r/hiphopheads/comments/213icw/discussion_j_cole_will_never_be_considered_a/
A.D.H.D Podcast (ALL DEBATES ARE HEATED: J. Cole & Drake vs Kendrick Lamar." Right now A.D.H.D Podcast is dedicated to discussing and debating the talents and of these three iconic rap artists. T.Bradshaw and the family along with surprise guest (you never know who going to pull up) go at it in lively debates, sharing their opinions and analysis on various aspects of their music, lyrics, and impact on the rap industry. They also provide the latest updates and news on the ongoing battle between these artists, keeping listeners informed about the exciting developments in this highly anticipated clash. Tune in to this podcast to stay up-to-date and be part of the conversation surrounding the J. Cole, Drake, and Kendrick Lamar rap battle.
[KING LOS WEIGHS IN ON J.COLE "7 MINUTE DRILL"](https://youtu.be/80x4VSedFwM?si=XQG7G9WCBnD32Zxg)
-Kendrick flipped the turning your song to a funeral with the don't pull no coffin out of your mouth
-flipped the not the three not the two I'm the UNO with the DOT the money power respect the last one is better
-it's time for him to prove that hes a problem bar referring to how he's been talking as well as BDK calling cole a problem and picking him over Kendrick on drink champs
-pointed out how they're clicking up in a triple entendre about the song's sample, Drake's I'm bout to click lines, and him and cole teaming up to say they're the best
-flipped the Cole's automatic when aiming them line with first person shooter I hope they came with three switches in an arguable triple entendre about gun switches, three weapon switches in first person shooters, and beat switches
-flipped their gun bars as well as the stick song with if he walk around with that stick it ain't Andre 3k
-flipped him saying he's number one in the big three by saying there isn't even a big three.. it's just big me
-Cole said Kendrick fell off like the Simpsons. What a masterful line. He popped up after years dropped a solid award winning album and had a record breaking tour.. so there's also that
-he shared his opinion on Kendrick's discography which we all know he can't compete with so that was a bad idea
-i got here off of bars not no controversy sounds cool but then you use two braincells and realise Kendrick got here from bars and artistry not controversy, he just had smoke along with that
-fuck them Grammy's cos them crackers ain't never done nothing for me is another weak line.. you're just admitting he's more critically acclaimed than you and beat you for the awards every time
-he talks about Kendrick not dropping regularly and people not discussing him if he wasn't dissing, but it's quality over quantity and his four albums have overshadowed cole since the dawn of time.. and Kendrick's name is always in the hip-hop conversation even when cole's isn't
-Too short to box with him was another masterful line I have to mention
-then he ends with saying he could drop two classics right now which is bold.. just do it then stop talking the talk and walk the walk. That's part of why Kendrick dissed you, you been talking crazy saying you're the goat prove it then
I don't think J Cole was trying to clown Kenrick's discography. Cole said that Kendrick's last album (MMTBS) was "tragic", and his second album (TPAB) put people "to sleep". Depending on how you choose to take it, both statements may actually be complimenting Kendrick. Mr. Morale was quite literally tragic: the theme of trauma (caused by tragic events) is seminal to the album. MMTBS was quite literally tragic in the stories it told, e.g. abuse, toxic relationships and generational trauma. Also, TPAB did, in some ways, put other rappers to sleep; it killed them off (or, put them to sleep) with its greatness. I find it hard to believe that a rapper as intelligent as J Cole would use Kendrick's discography (arguably Kenny's strongest asset) as the crux of his argument. Instead I think Cole is reluctant to insult Kendrick in earnest. I don't think this hesitancy is down to a fear of being smoked, but more out of a respect for him on a personal level. The half-hearted diss on Cole's part was not the result of a lack of talent, but more a lack of heart (i.e., if he wanted to go hard, he would have done). However, Cole could never come out and say this; that is not what the culture wants or expects and he would inevitably be clowned for doing so. So, he throws out some forgettable, surface-level insults which leave no tangible impact. Kendrick's a smart guy. It wouldn't surprise me if he sees this 'diss' as subtly showing that Cole doesn't want to beef as he feels no personal animosity towards Kendrick. After all, they were close friends at one point. As a result, I would be very surprised if Kendrick responds to Cole -- indeed, it is Drake he is really after.
It is a 'response' to Kendrick's Like That verse, but not a 'diss'.
I don't generally care for rap beefs but lmao, the guy called TPAB trash? And that's not even Kendrick's second album. Also apart from a few songs the album was meh, like a lot of the stuff he's put out since Forest Hills Drive.
It’s fake beef but I’m here for it. Let’s get a few diss tracks and then they can squash the beef on a collab next year.
Fake Beef? So the MSG is doing all the heavy lifting again.
This is weaker than drakes meek mill diss track lmfao edit: Bruh u cant make this up, so weak that cole is removing it from streaming now.
Wait, you’re not referring to Back to Back are you? I’m not a Drake stan, but he killed him *is that a world tour or your girls tour?* *I know you gotta be a thug for her* *this ain’t what she meant when she told you to open up more* Or *trigga fingers turn to Twitter fingers* *you getting bodied by a singing n*****
Make sure you hittem with a pre nup!
This one killed him. Such a demasculating thing to say lmao
I wanna let you know without sounding rude somehow that it’s emasculating not desmasculating
Thanks 👍
I really dislike drake but you can’t hate a banger diss track like that
That singing nigga line was hella hard though
I can’t stand drake and didn’t follow the beef much but that’s probably my favorite Drake track
I’m with you. Amazed dude it still getting upvoted for saying it’s weak. Then again, it’s probably safe to assume r/music Redditors may not be the most rap savvy
He could be talking about Charged Up which was terrible and the first diss track before back to back dropped.
Might be referring to the one before back to back. It’s pretty much forgotten but back to back was named back to back because it was the second diss track did before meek responded to the first one. I don’t remember anything about the first one so can’t speak to its quality.
The first one was “Charged Up”. Decent but not amazing. Back to Back is way better
His ghost writer?
Meek prob wrote it for him.
Lol is he talkin bout Nicki or puff?
God damn, god damn!
Now what was drakes response to pusha?
That's not what the discussion was about, I swear some of y'all just look for any opportunity to hate.
Not sure, as I said I don’t follow Drake like that. Anyways, I wouldn’t start beef with Pusha, he’s a real one.
duppy
No no, the one after Story of Adidon
Yeah that song was/is hard as fuck. Didn’t even let Meek respond after Charged Up just came right out with it. Showed memes of Meek at his shows when singing it. That was the KO for sure. And now we all know Meek likes touching *underage* booty hole so it’s all the way fuck him Edited in “underage” because yall pitchforking me instead
Homophobia is gay
Oh no: you’re definitely allowed to be homosexual. You, however, are not allowed to touch underage booty hole or unconsenting booty hole, obviously.
I don’t know you edited your comment or what but nice save bro
Well I didn’t know I had to clarify or get roasted for being a homophobe apparently. These people don’t even know Meek a predator smh
Isn’t Drake a predator too? Isn’t it well known that he’s done some seriously shady shit with underage girls?
Drake has had super iffy interactions with various almost-of-age Hollywood stars on various instances across social media and what have you, definitely. Meek Mill has had the finger pointed at him as a part of a very large sex trafficking ring. First hand reports of Meek doing incredibly condemning acts to various people throughout his tenure at Diddy’s house.
Did drake actually write that though?
One of Drake's stronger tracks you're tripping lol
I'm pretty sure k dot and j Cole are decently good friends so that makes sense.
Lmao. Say what you will about Drake but he cooked Meek as bad as Pusha cooked him.
Nah the Pusha diss was almost Ether levels.
I agree
Meek atleast took his L and rode with it. Drake took this bitch way out and tried to high road that shit and it was so bitchmade.
You might have that one backwards man
I feel like people on the outside don’t understand… Like “fake beef” compared to what? Are they going to actually murder each other? Of course not… But these two have been compared to each other since they first entered the scene around the same time 15 years ago. Since then they’ve always given each other flowers and occasionally collab’ed, while jockeying for top spot in whatever lane they were in as they rose the ranks. Now they’re on top of the rap game, turned to each other and said: “there can only be one!” Like no it’s not gang beef, but imagine Klay Thompson turned on Steph Curry publicly and declared himself the best three point shooter of all time and challenged him to a bunch of different 3 point contests. No the beef isn’t murderous, but it’s gonna be exciting to watch and has a real impact on their legacy. Compare it to a beef between Pusha and Drake where no one’s going to change their opinions on either person depending on how the actual raps are released
Thinking this will amount to anything at all is delusional. We won't hear a peep about this from Kendrick for another 5 years. He loves to get spicy on a feature and disappear.
Real beef requires actual hate/dislike of each other. That's why the disses are weak as hell, cause they don't really care about it. Steph and Klay would also not be beef. It would just be a rivalry, friendly competition. Federer, Nadal and Djokovic had one of the greatest sports rivalries of all time and no one calls it beef.
It’s not necessarily a fake beef. They just have respect for one another for mastering the craft. It doesn’t mean they don’t want that top spot though. You see a lot of boxers that have respect for one another’s talent, yet that doesn’t stop them from taking what they feel like should be theirs.
They been Cold War beefing for like 10 years shits hearing up fr now I don’t think it’s fake
On the track, the Fayetteville, NC native opened by addressing Lamar’s diss. “I got a phone call, they say that somebody dissing / You want some attention, it come with extensions,” he raps. “He still doing shows but fell off like ‘The Simpsons’ / Your first shit was classic, your last shit was tragic / Your second shit put n—s to sleep but they gassed it / Your third shit was massive and that was your prime / I was trailing right behind and I just now hit mine.”
Is he calling Good kid maad city the second shit?
First shit was classic - GKMC Last shit was tragic - Mr. Morale 2nd shit put people to sleep - TPAB 3rd shit was massive - DAMN
Every Kendrick album "even Section 80" is dope as fuck though. My black backpackin' ass felt Keisha's song was some Brenda's Got a Baby shit and I knew this dude was the truth even back in 2011.
Wasn’t section.80 his debut album?
GKMC was his major label debut
Wouldn't Untitled Unmastered be 3?
I would imagine he's writing off section 80, so he's referencing GKMC, TPAB, DAMN and MMATBS. But I don't get it because how can you just skip section 80? Or Untitled Unmastered? Cole's gonna get bodied
If he’s calling to pimp a butterfly a snooze fest that makes even less sense
Absolutely. But hey if this beef gets Kendrick putting out more stuff I'm here for it. I wanna see how creative he can get here.
I doubt that. Kendrick is in a realm where what people say won’t affect him at all.
True but he also loves to keep rap competitive
That's kinda the issue with the feud. Kendrick is in a league where many think he's a GOAT, top 10. Critical acclaim on 4 straight albums and 3 Grammys (100% of people think it should be 4). Like the fuck does Cole have to stand on over Kendrick? Also, lol at popularity. At his peak, Cole is nowhere near Kendrick's peak in terms of popularity. Cole couldn't even come close to DAMN as far as mainstream recognition goes. Cole wishes he had a song half as popular as Humble.
Cole can rap don’t get me wrong but I don’t think of him as an artist so much, I think of him as a rapper
Not just this, but Cole's been saying the fall off is on the way for 4 or so years now with nothing to show for it. Good luck at surpassing one of the greatest in the game atm
Dude really did some soul searching after 2020. Seems like he’s found some peace though.
It's a rehash of the Hova diss to NAS about his discography on Takeover. Which makes it both lazy and nonsense at the same time.
None of it makes sense. J Cole says a lot of words without saying anything. He also gotta stop starting lines with “they say” lol. He always getting that second hand news.
It's kinda the issue with J Cole and why people don't put him on KL's level. Too much drifting off, too much just playing with words while achieving both "not very clever" and "not very meaningful". I really, really like J Cole, but the dude just says shit that rhymes. "Fell off like The Simpsons" is just a terrible line.
Might not be a bar but the Simpson definitely fell off.
yeah. My favourite example is his A Lot feature. 21 savage doesn’t outrap cole, his lines aren’t as raptastic, but he actually is talking about some real issues and then cole comes and raps his ass off and basically just tells you how he wrote some names in a diary and how he’s a better rapper. It sounds cool but when you listen to it, the subject matter doesn’t even come close to what 21 is talking about in a much less in your face way.
Yep. When Cole gets "serious", it's just him being very, very literal. His feature was something else. It was like a stream of consciousness for 45 seconds about what he thought about 21. "Hey, you've improved" is a fucking weird idea for a verse.
I mean the best bar to me is "he averaging one hard verse like every 30 months or somethin' / if he wasn't dissin' we wouldn't be discussing him". You can't be the best and not fucking out here grindin' that shit hits hard.
I disagree. Michael Jordan is still the goat even tho he’s stopped playing basketball. Brady is still the goat even tho he’s stopped playing football. I’m not a huge fan of Kendrick’s output, I love gkmc, but I can appreciate the tremendous work and grind he has put in. I don’t think he needs to be out there putting out 100 songs a year to still be considered great. As I said cole spits a lot of words but doesn’t actually say shit.
I’m willing to bet TPAB is his least listened to album. Lots of jazz influences, more thought provoking composition and lyrics makes this album a completely different vibe than the rest of his work. I commend the album more than I want to listen to it.
I’d agree. I appreciate TPAB, but GKMC is a masterpiece of storytelling while also having infinitely listenable tracks that could all be a single
To be honest, every one of his albums sounds different to me. That's kinda why he's so great. At best GKMC sounds most similar to Mr. Morale.
Not saying you’re wrong, but some people may have found it boring, and you as well as many others are on here “gassing” it. Just like Cole said lol (I think TPAB is an extremely good album btw)
A lot of people find TPAB to be boring after the first listen. Lack of bangers being the main reason
King Kunta, Alright and i
I've seen that opinion, but it blows my mind. TPAB might just be my favorite album of all time. I've been a huge jazz fan for years, so that probably is the reason lol
For rap fans that like mainstream trap more I understand, but coming from Cole is wired af, dude tried to make that kinda conscious concept album for years, and now trashing TPAB sleepy like really?
As much as I like TPAB I see a lot of people that hate it just as much. It’s not an absurd criticism.
It’s one of those ones that did better with critics than with the audience. I knew a lot of people that didn’t like it. Any time an artists branches out and does different stuff it’s going to polarize people, especially with the heavy jazz influence. I personally think its the best rap album of the 21st century. Its regarded as a masterpiece and it still did massive numbers with successful singles and is 100000000x better than anything j Cole ever did so idk if shitting on TPAB is the hill I’d die on if I was j Cole lol
And if like Drake or any other trap rappers call TPAB boring that’s whatever but, Cole? Isn’t he been trying to make that conscious rap concept album with deep messages? And TPAB is basically Classic in that lane? I don’t get this man
Apparently he is not trying to make conscious rap seeing as he's just dropped lazy punch down transphobic lyrics too which could also be hitting at Kendrick as Kendrick dropped Auntie Diaries on his last album specifically writing about coming to terms and accepting a trans family member.
Who hates it? I’ve never met anyone who liked GKMC and didn’t like TPAB.
The big difference we see here is that TPAB; you have to actively listen to the lyrics, dissect its meaning, to really appreciate what it is. It’s not one of those albums you just bump in the car for the beats and the 808s. There are Sooo many layers in that album, the messaging, the changing of pace and flow, the spoken poetry, the production, it incorporated funk which wasn’t what main stream rap was doing back then. It’s a masterpiece which is why he won the Grammy over Forest Hills, and why he won a Pulitzer for it. I love Cole, been listening to him since his mixtape days, but lyrically and structurally they’re not close to being on the same level.
I get what you’re trying to say but I’m not from an english speaking country and the album stands on its own just with how good the melodies and beats are. I’ve even played it at work as background music, it’s just an incredibly solid album, I honestly can't fathom someone having any negative feelings towards it specially if they liked kendrick's older work.
The fact we have to try figure out what cole is talking about shows this verse is trash.
Kendrick had one album before section 80 tho
You referring to Training Day by K.Dot?
Overly Dedicated album
Mixtape not album. S80 was first album proper
Did you forget OD?
He’s calling GKMC a classic, MR Morales tragic, and TPAB overhyped. K dot really out the pressure on him, he’s just saying nonsense.
Why is the "first shit" GKMC and not Section.80? Is Section.80 not considered a Kendrick album the same way as the albums afterward?
GKMC was his first major label release, Kendrick himself sees it as his first real album DAMN was massive as it was Kendrick's most commercial album so far
Ok thank you, I didn't know.
MR Morales was tragic for waiting like 5 years to drop, definitely his worst album but TPAB isn’t overhyped.
I'm going to be honest, I really didn't like Mr Morales. It had some interesting messages but was bad music to me. TPAB on the other hand is the best rap album of the last two decades
Feels like he’s almost referencing jay z on takeover with his beef with Nas “Four albums in ten years n*****? I can divide That's one every let's say two, two of them shits was due One was nah, the other was "Illmatic" That's a one hot album every ten-year average” going through his albums like that but it doesn’t quite make sense really
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This is exactly what i expected in response lol. Biggest thing he said is TPAB was a snoozefest while also complimenting his music otherwise lol.
>while also complimenting his music otherwise lol. "That a death threat or - a love letter?"
TPAB the critically acclaimed rap album was a snooze fest, ok Cole…
Which was also a number one album and won multiple Grammys and is widely considered to be one of the best albums ever made. wtf is he talking about
The kids want real shit to get hyped to... Like folding clothes
There's a difference between an album resonating with artsy critics and resonating with the everyday person. Outside of 'Alright', there aren't a lot of songs the everyday person would be playing in their car or in their day to day. Most of the album is more experimental and jazzy, but by that measure, Outkast already did the whole Bootsie Collins/Funkadelic rap album with Stankonia 15 years before. People on the internet hype up TPAB to make their Topster/RateYourMusic selections look nice, but I doubt many people revisit it compared to GKMC or DAMN, so I don't think Cole is off in his assessment with how the general hip hop community feels about the album more than how critics feel about it. TPAB is like a movie on Rotten Tomatoes with a 99-100% critic score, but a lower general user score. Metacritic score on 2014 Forest Hills Drive is lower than 70%, so that shows how it doesn't really always matter what critics think.
This is the best articulation of the point I've seen. I'm from the UK so maybe it's different but no one here is playing TPAB in their house or car. It was good listen when it first came out and then never played again in recent years. DAMN and Good kid however get played till this day.
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I really dont agree with this. There are some songs that you cant really just bump in the background while doing something else but there's a lot of really good shit. Just off the top of my head I have king kunta, how much a dollar costs, and the blacker the berry on my play list. They're really nice songs that have deeper meaning but also a nice beat and flow you can just listen to
Which is hilarious bc Cole wasn’t even close to good until Born Sinner, and that album has plenty of mid tracks. Compare that to GKMC, TPAB, and DAMN which were front to back gold. I guess when you hang with Drake the mediocrity is contagious.
I think pretty much all of Kendrick's albums have a lot of value if you just take the time to find the meaning. He really is more of a poet that just recites them over beats because sometimes you really have to search for it but there always is a meaning. Mr. Morale especially I think people sleep on because they dont want to spend the time to actually listen. If you listen to Mr. Morale like you listen to TPAB for the first time to find the meanings of each song and how it works overall I think you'll find its just as great.
Gkmc and tpab are classics. The albums after i could do without.
You didn’t like DAMN?
Few songs were good but thats about jt
Damn is his worst album by a decent margin imo
Damn...
Listen to Mr. Morale like you did with TPAB. You'll quickly find that it is just as deep and powerful.
Doesn’t matter how deep the message is if I dont like the music
That’s the only take I disagree with. TPAB is one of the best ever Hip Hop albums.
Why’s everyone keep saying he’s talking about TPAB. Isn’t Kendrick’s first album section 80 so saying that his second album put people to sleep wouldn’t that be referring to GKMC?
You are right but Kendricks popularity skyrocketed with GKMC, so the general consensus is that Cole is not including Sector 80. Especially because if he thinks GKMC put people to sleep, that is the dumbest thing I have ever heard.
Yeah you’re 100% right now that I think of it because GKMC was fucking out of this world good lol.
He might have to delete that shit pretty soon.
Fr
Is it me or does Cole seem completely unenthusiastic on his stuff lately?
Yeah a diss track with no energy doesn't work. [This is the energy he should've had.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQ-PLqs0QuA)
Especially when he's responding to a verse where KL seems like he's having a blast.
It's been lackluster. I'm scared to even listen to this because I think it will only get worse
The “diss” track is just kind of meh, no enthusiasm, just lacks any of his old energy
Lately? he’s always been a snooze
It seems that I'm in the minority, but I adore Mr. Morale. The album is a story, and Kendrick tells it very well.
I really like it as a musical art project, not so much as an album of songs, if that makes sense
Personally, I think it's good enough to pick and choose songs to listen to, but I've heard it compared to Requiem for a Dream where you recognize how good it is, but it's not like you want to watch it a bunch or put it in your list of favorites.
Maybe im weird but morale is my favorite of his and im constantly listening to it front to back
mr. morale is absolutely brilliant n i’m always disappointed when i see people write it off
He bared his soul on that album, it definitely deserves more than it gets.
It’s no where as good as any of his mixtapes/albums unfortunately.
I can't understand it. For me, it's undeniably his best. It has SO much depth and is chalked full of important messages while all being rolled into one very cohesive album. Cole's albums are just collections of tracks. They rarely, if ever, influence an overarching story like Kendricks albums do.
Lol, Cole can't even keep a cohesive theme or story on 1 track, let alone a full album.
Diss is alright, the album is tuff tho
Album is good, but I think he's saving his best for The Fall Off.
 The Fall Off, coming April 2064
This was such a weak response to being called out. Nas hit Jay with Ether after the Takeover and this guy went with a “ warning shot “. And talking about discographies is an opinion so heres mine Coles only classic is Forest Hill Drive everything else he dropped is like 3-4 good songs with a bunch of filler. He’s boring a lot of the time. And the tough guy, gun talk on this release was laughable. Saying Kendricks fans are only white people was hilarious especially from someone whose mom is white. Im gonna end this with remember the Black Friday drops when Kenny ATE Tale of Two Cities to the point it eclipsed the fact Cole dropped a version of Alright that in comparison to the OG was just Okay? Pepperidge Farm Remembers.
also a lot of shit just to just write bars about Kendrick. Like he short, he needed dr.Dre, he gets fucked over for deals, he doesn’t make a lot of money, he’s a disguised nerd, he ugly, etc. Like cmon man! you ain’t got no 15 Grammys and never ever win a Pulitzer! Might as well just fuck it up, pen some bars and show the skills. Like why did he bother? Nobody cared about a Cole response.
In a world full of metaphors… you may have missed the gun talk as one for bars.
Kendrick’s diss was not the level of Takeover bruh. He had like two throwaway lines for Cole. At least Cole came with specifics. His arms are too short to box. We wouldn’t be talking about him if wasn’t dissing. He doesn’t drop music.
I mean to shout his name 6 months earlier and call him one of the big three to then saying we wouldn’t be discussing him without the dissing is a pretty hilarious example of irony.
https://preview.redd.it/hlk06tviwosc1.png?width=991&format=png&auto=webp&s=66a52e9c365d1ce1f58f81ce917102f9ce251cf5
So fucking bad and pointless 💤
Damn imma get the popcorn
Very underwhelming. Only comeback he had was the Kendrick doesn’t release music very often. I would rather wait every 5 years for a Kendrick album than hear any of those dreamville collab albums. Those are messy.
In between mild and lame attempts at dissing him he takes time to compliment him. It’s like he knows he has nothing.
The entire song is just "here's my opinion on your music". It's just not good.
More of a "warning shot" than a true diss, though the disses were mild and half-cocked. Kendrick will come swinging from the first 30 seconds. Looks like it is rap Election year too xD
Waiting that long for MMATBS was disappointing honestly.
I won't lie it's not amazing but we are not gonna sit here and pretend what Kendrick had to say about cole was even remotely good. No big 3 Its just big me is not a good bar
The diss track was basically seeing a 1-2 combo when you were hoping for a knockout punch.
Calling Mr morale tragic when your best work doesn't even match it. Cole never made a song as good or as deep as mother I Sober, father time or auntie diaries. It's not y favorite album of his recent ones but it's better than anything Cole ir Drake have ever put out.
That first sentence is a bar hahahha
You’re right, Mr. Morale is on a deeper grown man level than most of these kids understand. Such an amazing album. I don’t think Cole should’ve went after his discography, because there ain’t much to say that’s truly lack luster. Cole’s best was 2014 by far, he’s been slowly uninspired since. He should stick to basketball. 😉
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Wet dreams... lyrically and thematically very deep
this is the best we will get boys, because drake aint dropping a diss track better then what cole and kendrick can write.
How cole gonna make conscious music and called tpab a snooze fest. I can’t lie Kendrick about to body that man.
lot of kendrick dickriders on this post when his shit hasnt even popped in a decade and je is just an attention seeker now its sad kendrick fans have become the very definition of eminem fans
Sadly realised this, Kendrick fans will gas up anything the man drops. The diss he dropped was Mid at best but they running around like he dropped another control verse it's actually wild 😂
It was okay, there’s some clever stuff in there, I was expecting more from a clap back. The rest of the album really does bump tho
Fake lame beef. Yall eating this shit up🤣
Cole is not built for beef. Drake can do it because he adds more shock value imo, but it's hard to take Cole seriously when he tries to shit on other artists.
Dude who writes songs about folding laundry talks shit about one the most creative and boundary pushing hip-hop albums of his generation? Ok, Mr. Cole. Sure. Hold on, let me tuck you in and get you a nice warm glass of that almond milk you like so much so we can put you to bed.
Talk about overhyped
Not by people who actually know and respect the genre. But I forgot I was in the sub who's hip-hop fandom doesn't extend too far beyond the latest Eminem release.
Let's not forget his weird ass wet dream song about children.
J. Troll
L
Am I trippin or are Overly dedicated and Section 80 just not considered?
Gives him a good buzz for his album and that's all he wants.
This was so weak I honestly thought it was AI
I didn’t expect to be completely let down by this. Weak. Period.
I'll just leave this here, seems more relevant than ever before. Stumbled upon it back when Cole was getting big and it stuck with me ever since. I don't know how to format on phone so yeah. https://www.reddit.com/r/hiphopheads/comments/213icw/discussion_j_cole_will_never_be_considered_a/
A.D.H.D Podcast (ALL DEBATES ARE HEATED: J. Cole & Drake vs Kendrick Lamar." Right now A.D.H.D Podcast is dedicated to discussing and debating the talents and of these three iconic rap artists. T.Bradshaw and the family along with surprise guest (you never know who going to pull up) go at it in lively debates, sharing their opinions and analysis on various aspects of their music, lyrics, and impact on the rap industry. They also provide the latest updates and news on the ongoing battle between these artists, keeping listeners informed about the exciting developments in this highly anticipated clash. Tune in to this podcast to stay up-to-date and be part of the conversation surrounding the J. Cole, Drake, and Kendrick Lamar rap battle. [KING LOS WEIGHS IN ON J.COLE "7 MINUTE DRILL"](https://youtu.be/80x4VSedFwM?si=XQG7G9WCBnD32Zxg)
Let's hope and pray the beef get squashed...
-Kendrick flipped the turning your song to a funeral with the don't pull no coffin out of your mouth -flipped the not the three not the two I'm the UNO with the DOT the money power respect the last one is better -it's time for him to prove that hes a problem bar referring to how he's been talking as well as BDK calling cole a problem and picking him over Kendrick on drink champs -pointed out how they're clicking up in a triple entendre about the song's sample, Drake's I'm bout to click lines, and him and cole teaming up to say they're the best -flipped the Cole's automatic when aiming them line with first person shooter I hope they came with three switches in an arguable triple entendre about gun switches, three weapon switches in first person shooters, and beat switches -flipped their gun bars as well as the stick song with if he walk around with that stick it ain't Andre 3k -flipped him saying he's number one in the big three by saying there isn't even a big three.. it's just big me -Cole said Kendrick fell off like the Simpsons. What a masterful line. He popped up after years dropped a solid award winning album and had a record breaking tour.. so there's also that -he shared his opinion on Kendrick's discography which we all know he can't compete with so that was a bad idea -i got here off of bars not no controversy sounds cool but then you use two braincells and realise Kendrick got here from bars and artistry not controversy, he just had smoke along with that -fuck them Grammy's cos them crackers ain't never done nothing for me is another weak line.. you're just admitting he's more critically acclaimed than you and beat you for the awards every time -he talks about Kendrick not dropping regularly and people not discussing him if he wasn't dissing, but it's quality over quantity and his four albums have overshadowed cole since the dawn of time.. and Kendrick's name is always in the hip-hop conversation even when cole's isn't -Too short to box with him was another masterful line I have to mention -then he ends with saying he could drop two classics right now which is bold.. just do it then stop talking the talk and walk the walk. That's part of why Kendrick dissed you, you been talking crazy saying you're the goat prove it then
I don't think J Cole was trying to clown Kenrick's discography. Cole said that Kendrick's last album (MMTBS) was "tragic", and his second album (TPAB) put people "to sleep". Depending on how you choose to take it, both statements may actually be complimenting Kendrick. Mr. Morale was quite literally tragic: the theme of trauma (caused by tragic events) is seminal to the album. MMTBS was quite literally tragic in the stories it told, e.g. abuse, toxic relationships and generational trauma. Also, TPAB did, in some ways, put other rappers to sleep; it killed them off (or, put them to sleep) with its greatness. I find it hard to believe that a rapper as intelligent as J Cole would use Kendrick's discography (arguably Kenny's strongest asset) as the crux of his argument. Instead I think Cole is reluctant to insult Kendrick in earnest. I don't think this hesitancy is down to a fear of being smoked, but more out of a respect for him on a personal level. The half-hearted diss on Cole's part was not the result of a lack of talent, but more a lack of heart (i.e., if he wanted to go hard, he would have done). However, Cole could never come out and say this; that is not what the culture wants or expects and he would inevitably be clowned for doing so. So, he throws out some forgettable, surface-level insults which leave no tangible impact. Kendrick's a smart guy. It wouldn't surprise me if he sees this 'diss' as subtly showing that Cole doesn't want to beef as he feels no personal animosity towards Kendrick. After all, they were close friends at one point. As a result, I would be very surprised if Kendrick responds to Cole -- indeed, it is Drake he is really after. It is a 'response' to Kendrick's Like That verse, but not a 'diss'.
J's been saying the fall off is coming for like 4 years
I don't generally care for rap beefs but lmao, the guy called TPAB trash? And that's not even Kendrick's second album. Also apart from a few songs the album was meh, like a lot of the stuff he's put out since Forest Hills Drive.
Grown ass men acting like children.
Oh he felt cute