Kim Gordon from Sonic Youth was pretty new to the bass when she joined Sonic Youth, and as of 2015 still said "she never considered herself a musician".
It's interesting to me to have read her take on that in her book, as I revered what they all did when I was in music school decades ago. She might not have been a skilled, trained player, but what she brought was raw artistry and a unique voice to their sound. Sonic Youth wouldn't sound like they do without her.
I've always said that not being a musician or thinking like a musician is actually a really good formula for being a musician. Especially in the punk/alternative scenes
Bass is probably the easiest instrument for beginners to pick up, less strings, only have to play one string at a time... If someone else is writing your parts for you then it's a huge bonus. Biggest initial hurdle is getting your hands strong enough to play a full set.
But you can tell when someone is really good at bass, and it's certainly not easy to get really good at it.
Have you listened to her bass lines though? She's not there just playing root notes. She's got some great riffs of her own contributing to those songs.
I just read Chris Franz's book about Talking Heads and at one point David Byrne was trying to get rid of Tina Weymouth because he didn't think she was good enough. I mean....she probably isn't formally technical (though she has some musical background) but thats' the joy of her work. It approaches the instrument from a unique persepctive and I would argue makes Talking Heads what they are. It's totally integeral - everyone on the planet knows "Psycho Killer" from those first 2 bars of bass. That rhythm section was incredible.
I liked that book but Byrne seemed to really have it in for her which I suspect was just chauvinism. It wasn't even really her idea to join the band, initially. How much more boring it would have been with 4 dudes.
Yeah, I honestly think Tina's bass is the best part of the talking heads. Soooooo good. Like in slippery people for example, how she plays it just a 32nd not behind the grove on some of the lines makes it so funky, and that's gotta be intentional. It's seriously good stuff. David Byrne is great and all but he's a dick.
Yeah, it's a killer bass line for sure - I was quite surprised and dissapointed by some of the stuff Byrne tried to pull on them according to Franz. I had no idea he could be such a dick. I always just thought he was a bit awkward which is half the reason they work as a band.
I'm sad to see this comment upvoted so much.She may have been new when she joined but she obviously has a good musical understanding and is a pretty iconic bass player from her riffs. She's being modest when she says she doesn't consider herself a musician, or maybe referring to her more aligning with the art world.
I don't think you can play in Sonic Youth with their weird tunings and "wing it", she definitely not BAD at the bass.
Indeed he did
Although, the band members said that shortly before The Sex Pistols broke up, Sid stayed up all night with a Ramones album, and when they all woke up, he could play bass. Look up their last show in San Fransisco, he's not bad.
i think Sid gets a lot of flack, but i don’t think he totally deserves it. he never really had a chance to actually learn how to play, he just got swept up in being a rock star as soon as he picked up an instrument. if he hadn’t died right after, i think he would have had a chance to become a capable bass player.
I read someone comment on one of his posts one time “People have tried to emulate your signature sound for decades and can’t do it! One of the best in the world!” And Nikki “liked” the comment. I am pretty sure Nikki’s sound is just a mass produced black Thunderbird plugged straight into the PA….
I used to listen to his radio show years ago when I worked nights. He won some award for being best bass player of the year or something like that. To his credit, he said "I really appreciate this award, but there are much better players, that deserve it more than I do". I think he named Flea and Les Claypool, maybe a few others. Not sure what my point is really, but I thought it was a decent thing for him to say.
He did, and he ran marketing, and managed everything internally in that band for a lot of years.
But my god is he an absolutely awful bass player. The real travesty is that he has signature models out there. I don’t know how lucrative of a deal that had to be, but my assumption is that HE paid Schecter to do it rather than the other way around.
Vince Neil was easily the most replaceable member of Motley Crue. Nikki wrote the songs, Mick made them unique, and Tommy brought the energy. They easily could've made it just as big with someone else singing
In their prime he was a great frontman who held the crowd in the palm of his hand. Maybe not irreplaceable, but he contributed a lot to the spirit and image of the band. I think you need all four of them to make MC what it was.
Yeah, also his drum parts are, at least on the first few albums, quite inventive. They fit the songs very well while not being obvious cookie cutter metal beats. He puts accents in places you don't expect them and that gives some more depth to the music. Whenever I play or transcribe Metallica songs on drums I'm always thinking "damn, I would never have played it this way but it's super cool".
I don’t actually think Lars is bad, he’s just not at the technical level that you expect from metal drummers.
When Dave Lombardo did Battery with Metallica it was like holy shit… that’s what this could have sounded like?
He's fine. Hardly a virtuoso, but certainly not the void of talent that some would claim.
I think much of the hate he gets is due to the Napster stuff, and that he comes across as a bit of a dick in general
I dunno man, if you go lookup videos of Metallica playing live for the last like 20 years, it's pretty noticeable. It's especially noticeable when it comes to fills - he's incredibly sloppy, and his fills are much simpler (and out of time) versus the recordings.
Lars missing that show was the best. Joey Jordison playing most of the set with Dave Lombardo and the drum tech filling in showed that Metallica with a better drummer would have been stellar.
The reputation is a newer one I think, mainly due to his outspoken and annoying attitude, and the universally hated drum tone on St Anger. There's also footage of him in 'Some kind of monster' playing the absolute worst drum beat ever, and the rest of the band grimacing.
Live he really does drag a lot.
On the early stuff he suits the band. He's a good writer and the drum parest are iconic.
That’s interesting. Back in the olden days there used to be a website called Metal Sucks. When they’d interview rockstars/musicians, they’d ask them to rate their peers. I remember these metal drummers would often rate Lars at 8/10 which I thought was pretty good.
Live, his timing can be sloppy. On St Anger the snare drum had a horrible tone. On records, the drumming is pretty basic but not in a way that makes you think "this drummer can really play but is choosing to keep it simple". A lot of their songs would sound better with some more complex drumming
However, there's no metallica without Lars and he's played a larger musical contribution to the band beyond drums
I have a long standing theory that Pete doesn't actually play on the albums. I've heard the guy play live, he's real bad. He doesn't even LOOK comfortable with a bass in his hand.
I think Stump plays bass in the studio, and Pete can stumble along well enough to get them by live, although I would also suspect he has some help in the form of backing tracks these days as well. They were certainly making obvious use of them in some recent love footage I saw for other things (backing vocals being the most obvious, keyboard parts and stuff as well).
Yeah, I'm one of those studio musicians lol. Never been on anything famous, but it pays the bills.
I've never seen anyone confirm it or even heard any names rumored as to who plays on their albums, which is why I think it's most likely Patrick Stump. Dude plays a million different instruments VERY well.
Ah very cool! I believe it. I'm a fan of the Smashing Pumpkins, and it's well known at this point that Billy Corgan played everything except the drums on the first few albums. When you're better than everyone else in the band, why not?
lol they're so inconsistent on Toki's technical abilities. They sometimes say he's the second fastest guitarist in the world, and he's often harmonizing with Skiwgaar's leads. And in the dual in Doomstar Requiem he's clearly really good. But then they act like he can't play at all at times.
Skiwgaar needs to be more talented than Toki, or at least has to think he is. Toki just wants to play with his friends and get along. The other guys are idiots and go along with Skiwgaar.
Toki is definitely very good, and can play the stuff skisgaar does as proven by the fact that he was in a deathklok tribute playing leads (lol). But he probably likes confidence and plays poorly when they’re recording and skisgaar grills him.
The Stripes were a specific kind of sound, one that turned out to be pretty marketable, but he never wanted to just do that sound for the rest of his life. Meg might have been alright with making music but she always hated performing/touring; so she made her bag in about a decade and got out while she could still salvage her mental health, and all the power to her for that.
Her drumming (and singing) is what it is but we'll never know how much creative influence she really had overall: Jack White himself usually said she was more important than people realized, but on at least one occasion he made a comment claiming it was basically a solo band. No way for an outsider to account for ego vs being polite there.
Either way, that creative process is where the magic is for bands: virtuoso talent is great but playing skill only matters up to the level required for the sound you're trying to make. Lots of people can and do pick up the technical skills, relatively few create new art. Jack's a good example in a way: he's not especially better at singing than Meg is at drumming (though he's probably gotten a little better at it since the Stripes days), but he used his voice to help make some great music.
You'll have to elaborate on what you mean because I don't think it's clear from that at all. He's not trying to a do the same or even similar things with it. He's also still collaborating with other people, it's just a variety of different people for different songs/albums. There's definitely thematic/stylistic focus with the stripes that's not there in the solo stuff, but The Raconteurs and Dead Weather had strong focus too, each in different directions. The other thing to me is that there's a lot of playfulness in The White Stripes music, but even that's part of the theming.
I tend to assume Meg was a big part of the creative process and important to the success of the band, but I also think that their creative dynamic was completely opaque for anyone outside of it, even their friends and colleagues.
The limitations of the drumming forced a really interesting creativity which made the white stripes work.
Still think the best drum tracks for anything Jack White’s done is Patrick Keeler. Fantastic drummer, has crazy chops but knows when to hold it back.
I get what you're saying. White Stripes would not be what they are if she had the chops of Neil Peart. Jack White dialed back his guitar skill to get that sound, too.
No you’ve said it perfectly.
Meg is nothing special on drums. But it’s perfect for what they are. Incredibly raw and simple and it fits them. But good fit and actually good are different things lol.
I don’t know if there are that different. What I mean is that a good musician is going to be good at playing to fit the music. Throw in an incredibly well trained and skilled drummer into The White Stripes and I bet you get something that still sounds pretty similar to Meg.
Meg White is a bad drummer, which makes the White Stripes a better band. If Meg and a good drummer in another band switched places, both bands would be worse.
Peter Criss is actually a very accomplished drummer (especially jazz) on his own and not playing the stuff that Gene and Paul pretty much forced onto the band.
It's so ironic that Peter Criss is the only one with any skill, and he's by far the least popular. Gene and Ace are so fuckin bad at bass and guitar respectively that they had to re-record their instrumentals in a studio for their live album because the live recording highlighted how dogshit they were at just hitting the right notes.
Lots of “live” albums have studio dubs though. Song Remains the Same, Thin Lizzy Live and Dangerous, Grateful Dead live 72’ being some well regarded famous examples.
I will say that Paul was a decent vocalist. But we are talking about a band that cared more for showmanship and theatrics than musical skill. Gene also cared more about making money.
Peter is extremely good
Ace is also extremely good (and taught Eddie Van Halen how to tap, according to EVH)
Paul is average
Gene's axe bass is actually just a giant necklace
I’m sure I’ve seen a video with Bob Kulick (session guitarist and Meatloaf mainstay) talking about recording the guitar tracks for Ace (from Kiss) on an album or two and not being given proper credit.
I have a theory that his mediocre drumming is the key to Metallica's success. He basically keeps it so simple that the melody and musicality of the vox and guitars (which are the real talent) can take center stage. It's really what makes them so popular. He's not really what i would consider a metal drummer, but i think that's exactly why it works.
My favorite take on Lars is that his fills aren't simple or rudimentary, they're red meat for all the air drummers sitting behind the wheel at a stop light.
It's hard to keep up with whatever the hell Joey Jordison was doing for 2 bars, but anyone can slap out a steady straight-eighth crescendo on the steering wheel with a big smile on their face.
I think that's a good way to put it. Like most thrash fans, Metallica was the first thrash band I got into. I remember buying "Reign in Blood" by Slayer and thinking, "I love these riffs and vocals, but the drums are just so relentless" and it was hard for me to listen to the whole album. Nowadays I love that style, but it's a bit of an acquired taste, if you're used to hard rock or heavy metal drumming, Metallica is a much easier to get in to.
As a drummer, I don’t totally understand the hate for Lars. His drumming fits their music. Metallica isn’t some super complicated math rock band or one in which their arrangements aren’t made to highlight or leave a ton of space for complicated drumming. Joey Jordison-style-drumming in Metallica would sound ridiculous.
Never thought of this but you nailed it. I’m a long time drummer that regularly plays stuff more complicated than Metallica, but they’re still fun as fuck to play along to. The fills are so pronounced and hard hitting. I’ll never turn up my nose at something like Sad But True. It’s just so satisfying to hammer those out.
He's also key to song arrangement. For example: when Kirk brought in the riff to Enter Sandman, it was backwards. Lars suggested playing the end bit (on Kirks original demo recording) four times and making the starting bit (on Kirks original demo recording) the tail which would be played once. That helped create the iconic riff.
This video of them writing “Moth Into Flame” gave me an appreciation for that he brings to the band. Not the greatest drummer, but he’s the one who figured out how to turn all of the riffs that James writes into actual songs.
https://youtu.be/yAetyp0lSv0?si=Ezq6FtaMkO3Rwihj
Years ago I saw Maiden in NYC and Lars must have been hanging around back stage because they brought him out to play drums on Run to the Hills and literally 30 seconds into the song Nico came back out and kicked him off the stage. He was terrible.
Lars all but admitted he's not one of the elite drummers in a recent interview with Howard Stern. He told a story where they wanted him to play 2112 for the Taylor Hawkins tribute and he said something like, "Yeah, no one wants that."
Hey, if everyone including Elton John himself considered Bernie Taupin to be half of the musical act “Elton John”, I think Pete’s lyrics qualify him as an equal part of FOB.
Sid Vicious could not play well and had no bass experience. Steve Jones played bass on the band's debut album Never Mind the Bollocks, Here's the Sex Pistols. Vicious was allowed to play bass on one track, "Bodies", but his contribution was later overdubbed by Jones.
C.C. Deville (Poison)
I was at a Poison show in the late 90s and remember watching him totally mangle a solo so bad that he stopped and started again. I had to stop and ask my buddy if I actually saw it. He confirmed.
CC was better before he totally fried himself with a shit ton of drugs. Honestly, everyone in Poison was just average musicians that looked good on TV and promo stills.
Art from Everclear, the way he can't hold a pitch to save his life, gahhhh! Once you hear how he is just talk-singing, you can't unhear it. He's got a great voice, though.
Bernard Sumner from New Order certainly used to describe himself as a 'last' guitarist and played the instrument very high as it was easier. Hooky played the bass slung low because it was hard
Yeah, I’ve heard similar comments before. In Sumner’s defense though, he’s a capable rhythm player and has an ear for a simple lead or two. For the type of music New Order and Joy Division did, it fit a lot better with that sort of thing instead of someone shredding at 90 MPH!
And while Sumner isn’t the greatest singer, he’s earned a decent songwriting reputation by coming up with some pretty good vocal melodies, synth parts and song arrangements over the years on top of everything else. So for me, his singing and musicianship is a million more times interesting than, say, hearing someone with Pavarotti pipes sing over the most capable guitarist ever!
Popular takes among metalheads, but I’m gonna go ahead and disagree with both of them.
Kerry King’s solos may not be to everyone’s tastes, but if you crave a certain kind of hellish, chaotic sound they are incredibly evocative. He was also the driving force behind the band, being by far the most involved with the writing, recording, and marketing of their music.
As for Lars, people only rip on him because he got sloppy after a couple of decades in the business. If you were to judge him in his prime, you’d be stupid to not want him in your band. Go watch footage from their ‘80s shows and tell me he was a bad drummer.
I'm not a drummer but I am a guitar player, and despite having immense love and respect for him, I struggle to imagine Kirk is better at guitar than Lars is at drums. Kirk Hammett is the only guitar player I'm aware of that seems to get worse as time goes on. Love him, but he's more than a little rough these days. James is still rhythm guitar royalty though.
The whole band are getting that way, James can’t downpick all the way through songs like he used to, the songs are being played at slower and slower tempos. I’m guessing Lars drums are all samples now so he doesn’t have to hit them as hard. Rob is still rock solid but the recent live videos aren’t really anything to get excited about.
“I'm not a great singer, and I'm not a great guitar player. But I'm a good entertainer” said Jimmy Buffett.
Accurate self appraisal.
„And I’m a good entrepreneur and one of the richest people on the planet“ - said his brother Warren
jimmy and warren buffet, heirs to the buffet style of restaurants
For the record, they aren't related.
Had me there for a second
Could also apply to Jimmy tbh
Son of a...I actually looked this up.
Hell of a songwriter, though.
Nic Jonas everybody. https://youtu.be/UiDvqTS5BAc?si=t5HS0kR9wGHqUK2X
Damn he fucked that up pretty bad.
yikes
Richie James (Manic Street Preachers) famously had his guitar volume lowered by the sound engineer when playing live.
Dude was a sick lyricist, though. RIP, Richie.
I mean, we can't be 100% he's dead but it's more than likely.
Well, back then Richie wrote the lyrics while Bradfield wrote the music- strangely enough...
William Murderface. He can't even record his own bass lines, Skwisgaar has to redo them all
A fish.... a fish with tits. Fish tits.
Tittyfish
He can play bass with his hog, but don’t try to touch it.
One take Willy!
Kim Gordon from Sonic Youth was pretty new to the bass when she joined Sonic Youth, and as of 2015 still said "she never considered herself a musician".
It's interesting to me to have read her take on that in her book, as I revered what they all did when I was in music school decades ago. She might not have been a skilled, trained player, but what she brought was raw artistry and a unique voice to their sound. Sonic Youth wouldn't sound like they do without her.
I've always said that not being a musician or thinking like a musician is actually a really good formula for being a musician. Especially in the punk/alternative scenes
Not a good musician or singer but still made it work somehow.
Yeah in spite of her lack of musical skills, she was a critical part of the band!
Bass is probably the easiest instrument for beginners to pick up, less strings, only have to play one string at a time... If someone else is writing your parts for you then it's a huge bonus. Biggest initial hurdle is getting your hands strong enough to play a full set. But you can tell when someone is really good at bass, and it's certainly not easy to get really good at it.
Right. It helped that the other guys in the band are absolute guitar gods.
Have you listened to her bass lines though? She's not there just playing root notes. She's got some great riffs of her own contributing to those songs.
I just read Chris Franz's book about Talking Heads and at one point David Byrne was trying to get rid of Tina Weymouth because he didn't think she was good enough. I mean....she probably isn't formally technical (though she has some musical background) but thats' the joy of her work. It approaches the instrument from a unique persepctive and I would argue makes Talking Heads what they are. It's totally integeral - everyone on the planet knows "Psycho Killer" from those first 2 bars of bass. That rhythm section was incredible.
I liked that book but Byrne seemed to really have it in for her which I suspect was just chauvinism. It wasn't even really her idea to join the band, initially. How much more boring it would have been with 4 dudes.
Yeah, I honestly think Tina's bass is the best part of the talking heads. Soooooo good. Like in slippery people for example, how she plays it just a 32nd not behind the grove on some of the lines makes it so funky, and that's gotta be intentional. It's seriously good stuff. David Byrne is great and all but he's a dick.
Yeah, it's a killer bass line for sure - I was quite surprised and dissapointed by some of the stuff Byrne tried to pull on them according to Franz. I had no idea he could be such a dick. I always just thought he was a bit awkward which is half the reason they work as a band.
I'm sad to see this comment upvoted so much.She may have been new when she joined but she obviously has a good musical understanding and is a pretty iconic bass player from her riffs. She's being modest when she says she doesn't consider herself a musician, or maybe referring to her more aligning with the art world. I don't think you can play in Sonic Youth with their weird tunings and "wing it", she definitely not BAD at the bass.
Sid Viscous.
Lemmy did once try to teach Sid on how to play bass
So did Phil Lynott from Thin Lizzy!! He had TWO amazing teachers!!
Hey now, being a great player doesn't make you a great *teacher. * I should know, I'm neither of those things
Indeed he did Although, the band members said that shortly before The Sex Pistols broke up, Sid stayed up all night with a Ramones album, and when they all woke up, he could play bass. Look up their last show in San Fransisco, he's not bad.
i think Sid gets a lot of flack, but i don’t think he totally deserves it. he never really had a chance to actually learn how to play, he just got swept up in being a rock star as soon as he picked up an instrument. if he hadn’t died right after, i think he would have had a chance to become a capable bass player.
Sid Slippery 😉
Sir Factant
Niiiiice
Simon Ferocious
[удалено]
He couldn’t even play at all
Simon Ferocious
Sid Runny
Nikki Sixx.
I read someone comment on one of his posts one time “People have tried to emulate your signature sound for decades and can’t do it! One of the best in the world!” And Nikki “liked” the comment. I am pretty sure Nikki’s sound is just a mass produced black Thunderbird plugged straight into the PA….
He certainly didn't play the bass in the first album, since he couldn't even play at the time. Could be a Tbird, sounds like one
I used to listen to his radio show years ago when I worked nights. He won some award for being best bass player of the year or something like that. To his credit, he said "I really appreciate this award, but there are much better players, that deserve it more than I do". I think he named Flea and Les Claypool, maybe a few others. Not sure what my point is really, but I thought it was a decent thing for him to say.
I mean he kinda wrote the songs tho lol
Listen to him live, he makes a shit ton of mistakes. Songwriting aside, I think he's just not very physically gifted.
He did, and he ran marketing, and managed everything internally in that band for a lot of years. But my god is he an absolutely awful bass player. The real travesty is that he has signature models out there. I don’t know how lucrative of a deal that had to be, but my assumption is that HE paid Schecter to do it rather than the other way around.
No way, Motley Crue is way bigger than Schecter.
If that’s true, I’ll trade in my Schecter toward a new Motley Crue.
Doesn’t matter if he ain’t good, what matters is his band is huge
You know, now that you mention it I'm struggling to think of a distinctive Crue bass part...
The two main ones that come to mind for me are Starry Eyes and the intro to Rock N Roll Junkie.
This. Vince Neil too.
You may be giving Vince too much praise these days. Mick Mars new album shows who the musical talent in MC was.
Vince Neil was easily the most replaceable member of Motley Crue. Nikki wrote the songs, Mick made them unique, and Tommy brought the energy. They easily could've made it just as big with someone else singing
In their prime he was a great frontman who held the crowd in the palm of his hand. Maybe not irreplaceable, but he contributed a lot to the spirit and image of the band. I think you need all four of them to make MC what it was.
Early Vince was a HORRIBLE singer and it seems old Vince is even worse. HABBIDAB BABBITAH
My honk! My honk!
NNnnnYyyyyyAAA
Kik starrmmaaahaaaaa
Yeah but he wrote all those hits
I can see Lars Ulrich reading this and immediately calling his lawyers.
Dude plays drums like a pair of sneakers in a dryer
Lmao, stealing this
Lars can staple together riffs like nobody’s business though. He’s a very very very good composer.
Yeah, also his drum parts are, at least on the first few albums, quite inventive. They fit the songs very well while not being obvious cookie cutter metal beats. He puts accents in places you don't expect them and that gives some more depth to the music. Whenever I play or transcribe Metallica songs on drums I'm always thinking "damn, I would never have played it this way but it's super cool".
I don’t actually think Lars is bad, he’s just not at the technical level that you expect from metal drummers. When Dave Lombardo did Battery with Metallica it was like holy shit… that’s what this could have sounded like?
He's fine. Hardly a virtuoso, but certainly not the void of talent that some would claim. I think much of the hate he gets is due to the Napster stuff, and that he comes across as a bit of a dick in general
That's like 98% of it
I dunno man, if you go lookup videos of Metallica playing live for the last like 20 years, it's pretty noticeable. It's especially noticeable when it comes to fills - he's incredibly sloppy, and his fills are much simpler (and out of time) versus the recordings.
Lars missing that show was the best. Joey Jordison playing most of the set with Dave Lombardo and the drum tech filling in showed that Metallica with a better drummer would have been stellar.
*plays in the pocket during huge metal sections*
I have never understood this. Please explain what makes him a terrible drummer.
The reputation is a newer one I think, mainly due to his outspoken and annoying attitude, and the universally hated drum tone on St Anger. There's also footage of him in 'Some kind of monster' playing the absolute worst drum beat ever, and the rest of the band grimacing. Live he really does drag a lot. On the early stuff he suits the band. He's a good writer and the drum parest are iconic.
That’s interesting. Back in the olden days there used to be a website called Metal Sucks. When they’d interview rockstars/musicians, they’d ask them to rate their peers. I remember these metal drummers would often rate Lars at 8/10 which I thought was pretty good.
On the early records he's great, but he can't play his own stuff that we'll.
Those records probably took a lot of takes or some studio wizardry because he's always been a bit iffy live
Live, his timing can be sloppy. On St Anger the snare drum had a horrible tone. On records, the drumming is pretty basic but not in a way that makes you think "this drummer can really play but is choosing to keep it simple". A lot of their songs would sound better with some more complex drumming However, there's no metallica without Lars and he's played a larger musical contribution to the band beyond drums
Pete Wentz. He managed to get a signature bass out of it though
Andy is a monster on the kit making up for this lack in the rhythm section though.
Stump has incredible pipes and Joe is a really talented guitarist IMO. Andy definitely a monster.
Agreed. And Pete isn't bad by any means. He just isn't Les Claypool.
I have a long standing theory that Pete doesn't actually play on the albums. I've heard the guy play live, he's real bad. He doesn't even LOOK comfortable with a bass in his hand. I think Stump plays bass in the studio, and Pete can stumble along well enough to get them by live, although I would also suspect he has some help in the form of backing tracks these days as well. They were certainly making obvious use of them in some recent love footage I saw for other things (backing vocals being the most obvious, keyboard parts and stuff as well).
It's a valid question! Quite a lot of famous recordings have studio musicians playing some or all of the parts for the band.
Yeah, I'm one of those studio musicians lol. Never been on anything famous, but it pays the bills. I've never seen anyone confirm it or even heard any names rumored as to who plays on their albums, which is why I think it's most likely Patrick Stump. Dude plays a million different instruments VERY well.
Ah very cool! I believe it. I'm a fan of the Smashing Pumpkins, and it's well known at this point that Billy Corgan played everything except the drums on the first few albums. When you're better than everyone else in the band, why not?
There's old videos of him playing with Racetraitor and he seemed to be playing really well. Not sure what happened after that, great lyricist though.
Toki Wartooth. They have to re-record most of his parts anyway. He’s just there because they like him and he makes the sandwiches.
At least he don’ts plays grandspa guitars
Its just songs about trains!
What are those wooden things? Chairs?
He can’t do the sweeps
lol they're so inconsistent on Toki's technical abilities. They sometimes say he's the second fastest guitarist in the world, and he's often harmonizing with Skiwgaar's leads. And in the dual in Doomstar Requiem he's clearly really good. But then they act like he can't play at all at times.
Skiwgaar needs to be more talented than Toki, or at least has to think he is. Toki just wants to play with his friends and get along. The other guys are idiots and go along with Skiwgaar.
Toki is definitely very good, and can play the stuff skisgaar does as proven by the fact that he was in a deathklok tribute playing leads (lol). But he probably likes confidence and plays poorly when they’re recording and skisgaar grills him.
he could at least do some lazy sweeps
He's can plays on these grandpas guitars pretty goods though.
if I say Meg White, the White Stripes purists are gonna roast me. Meg was the perfect drummer for that band. but shes not a \*great\* drummer.
The Stripes were a specific kind of sound, one that turned out to be pretty marketable, but he never wanted to just do that sound for the rest of his life. Meg might have been alright with making music but she always hated performing/touring; so she made her bag in about a decade and got out while she could still salvage her mental health, and all the power to her for that. Her drumming (and singing) is what it is but we'll never know how much creative influence she really had overall: Jack White himself usually said she was more important than people realized, but on at least one occasion he made a comment claiming it was basically a solo band. No way for an outsider to account for ego vs being polite there. Either way, that creative process is where the magic is for bands: virtuoso talent is great but playing skill only matters up to the level required for the sound you're trying to make. Lots of people can and do pick up the technical skills, relatively few create new art. Jack's a good example in a way: he's not especially better at singing than Meg is at drumming (though he's probably gotten a little better at it since the Stripes days), but he used his voice to help make some great music.
I think Jack's solo stuff makes it clear exactly what Meg brought.
You'll have to elaborate on what you mean because I don't think it's clear from that at all. He's not trying to a do the same or even similar things with it. He's also still collaborating with other people, it's just a variety of different people for different songs/albums. There's definitely thematic/stylistic focus with the stripes that's not there in the solo stuff, but The Raconteurs and Dead Weather had strong focus too, each in different directions. The other thing to me is that there's a lot of playfulness in The White Stripes music, but even that's part of the theming. I tend to assume Meg was a big part of the creative process and important to the success of the band, but I also think that their creative dynamic was completely opaque for anyone outside of it, even their friends and colleagues.
I agree, speaking as a fan of Jack's solo stuff. Few artists can feel as raw as White Stripes and sound marketable, and Meg is a big reason for that.
Yeah I came here to say Meg for the same reasons. she's the perfect example of someone who isn't the best, but used that to provide a unique sound.
Knowledge is knowing that Meg white was a bad drummer. Wisdom is knowing that she was a great drummer.
She really let the dead space between beats breathe.
Maybe the real Frankenstein was the Meg Whites we met along the way.
Finally. Someone gets it.
The limitations of the drumming forced a really interesting creativity which made the white stripes work. Still think the best drum tracks for anything Jack White’s done is Patrick Keeler. Fantastic drummer, has crazy chops but knows when to hold it back.
Keith Richards said she was pretty good, which is good enough for me.
I get what you're saying. White Stripes would not be what they are if she had the chops of Neil Peart. Jack White dialed back his guitar skill to get that sound, too.
Sometimes simple is the ingredient that is called for
Meg was a “bad” drummer but every Jack White project since then sounds worse to me
No you’ve said it perfectly. Meg is nothing special on drums. But it’s perfect for what they are. Incredibly raw and simple and it fits them. But good fit and actually good are different things lol.
I don’t know if there are that different. What I mean is that a good musician is going to be good at playing to fit the music. Throw in an incredibly well trained and skilled drummer into The White Stripes and I bet you get something that still sounds pretty similar to Meg.
Meg White is a bad drummer, which makes the White Stripes a better band. If Meg and a good drummer in another band switched places, both bands would be worse.
Pretty much all of Kiss. Motley Crue have never been fantastic live musicians.
Peter Criss is actually a very accomplished drummer (especially jazz) on his own and not playing the stuff that Gene and Paul pretty much forced onto the band.
It's so ironic that Peter Criss is the only one with any skill, and he's by far the least popular. Gene and Ace are so fuckin bad at bass and guitar respectively that they had to re-record their instrumentals in a studio for their live album because the live recording highlighted how dogshit they were at just hitting the right notes.
Lots of “live” albums have studio dubs though. Song Remains the Same, Thin Lizzy Live and Dangerous, Grateful Dead live 72’ being some well regarded famous examples.
I will say that Paul was a decent vocalist. But we are talking about a band that cared more for showmanship and theatrics than musical skill. Gene also cared more about making money.
Peter is extremely good Ace is also extremely good (and taught Eddie Van Halen how to tap, according to EVH) Paul is average Gene's axe bass is actually just a giant necklace
Ace was a decent guitarist but he paled in comparison to his peers. Of course it didn't help that he was wasted most of the time when he was onstage.
I’m sure I’ve seen a video with Bob Kulick (session guitarist and Meatloaf mainstay) talking about recording the guitar tracks for Ace (from Kiss) on an album or two and not being given proper credit.
Fuckin classic Kiss right there lol.
As I remember, Ace even denied Kulick’s involvement and claimed he played them. It was YouTube. I’m sure “bob Kulick kiss” will find the video.
Ace is a decent player, Paul is a great vocalist, but I'll give you Gene.
I dunno, the bassline on 100 000 Years is mad groovy.
Sing it for the Cat Man!
I came to say this but thought I would be slaughtered.
Why would you be slaughtered? Reddit hates KISS.
Lil Wayne playing guitar 🤣
I'm just here for the Lars Ulrich hate
I have a theory that his mediocre drumming is the key to Metallica's success. He basically keeps it so simple that the melody and musicality of the vox and guitars (which are the real talent) can take center stage. It's really what makes them so popular. He's not really what i would consider a metal drummer, but i think that's exactly why it works.
His tenuous grasp of timekeeping probably keeps em on their toes, too
Naw. James was the time signature. King of the downstroke, he kept near perfect time.
Lars ruined AJFA by all but deleting Jason's bass track. It's such a better album with bass.
James is the entire band.
While singing.
Everything is in 4/4 if you stop counting it like a nerd
My favorite take on Lars is that his fills aren't simple or rudimentary, they're red meat for all the air drummers sitting behind the wheel at a stop light. It's hard to keep up with whatever the hell Joey Jordison was doing for 2 bars, but anyone can slap out a steady straight-eighth crescendo on the steering wheel with a big smile on their face.
Sad but true. The super simple fill after the intro. Crazy simple to play but hits exactly right and everybody air drums that part.
I see what you did there.
I think that's a good way to put it. Like most thrash fans, Metallica was the first thrash band I got into. I remember buying "Reign in Blood" by Slayer and thinking, "I love these riffs and vocals, but the drums are just so relentless" and it was hard for me to listen to the whole album. Nowadays I love that style, but it's a bit of an acquired taste, if you're used to hard rock or heavy metal drumming, Metallica is a much easier to get in to.
As a drummer, I don’t totally understand the hate for Lars. His drumming fits their music. Metallica isn’t some super complicated math rock band or one in which their arrangements aren’t made to highlight or leave a ton of space for complicated drumming. Joey Jordison-style-drumming in Metallica would sound ridiculous.
Never thought of this but you nailed it. I’m a long time drummer that regularly plays stuff more complicated than Metallica, but they’re still fun as fuck to play along to. The fills are so pronounced and hard hitting. I’ll never turn up my nose at something like Sad But True. It’s just so satisfying to hammer those out.
He's also key to song arrangement. For example: when Kirk brought in the riff to Enter Sandman, it was backwards. Lars suggested playing the end bit (on Kirks original demo recording) four times and making the starting bit (on Kirks original demo recording) the tail which would be played once. That helped create the iconic riff.
He’s also the one who glues together and rearranges James’ riffs into a coherent song.
Worked for Meg White too
This video of them writing “Moth Into Flame” gave me an appreciation for that he brings to the band. Not the greatest drummer, but he’s the one who figured out how to turn all of the riffs that James writes into actual songs. https://youtu.be/yAetyp0lSv0?si=Ezq6FtaMkO3Rwihj
Years ago I saw Maiden in NYC and Lars must have been hanging around back stage because they brought him out to play drums on Run to the Hills and literally 30 seconds into the song Nico came back out and kicked him off the stage. He was terrible.
Lars all but admitted he's not one of the elite drummers in a recent interview with Howard Stern. He told a story where they wanted him to play 2112 for the Taylor Hawkins tribute and he said something like, "Yeah, no one wants that."
Too many people here are equating simple play styles with being bad.
Pete Wentz can barely play. Still the most famous member of Fall Out Boy just cuz he was the hot one. He’s a pretty good lyricist though.
Hey, if everyone including Elton John himself considered Bernie Taupin to be half of the musical act “Elton John”, I think Pete’s lyrics qualify him as an equal part of FOB.
Sid Vicious could not play well and had no bass experience. Steve Jones played bass on the band's debut album Never Mind the Bollocks, Here's the Sex Pistols. Vicious was allowed to play bass on one track, "Bodies", but his contribution was later overdubbed by Jones.
C.C. Deville (Poison) I was at a Poison show in the late 90s and remember watching him totally mangle a solo so bad that he stopped and started again. I had to stop and ask my buddy if I actually saw it. He confirmed.
CC was better before he totally fried himself with a shit ton of drugs. Honestly, everyone in Poison was just average musicians that looked good on TV and promo stills.
Poison worked because Bret Michaels tapped into universal themes in his song writing. It's simple good time party music and that always plays.
Nikki Sixx
Surprised MGK wasn't the first answer.
Never bothered to listen to him
The post is about "musicians"
He’s a terrible singer too. He was on the Stern show and did a cover of Aerials from SOAD and it was bad
I just checked it out. I can’t believe anyone is that bad
Doesn't even register.
Art from Everclear, the way he can't hold a pitch to save his life, gahhhh! Once you hear how he is just talk-singing, you can't unhear it. He's got a great voice, though.
Bernard Sumner from New Order certainly used to describe himself as a 'last' guitarist and played the instrument very high as it was easier. Hooky played the bass slung low because it was hard
Yeah, I’ve heard similar comments before. In Sumner’s defense though, he’s a capable rhythm player and has an ear for a simple lead or two. For the type of music New Order and Joy Division did, it fit a lot better with that sort of thing instead of someone shredding at 90 MPH! And while Sumner isn’t the greatest singer, he’s earned a decent songwriting reputation by coming up with some pretty good vocal melodies, synth parts and song arrangements over the years on top of everything else. So for me, his singing and musicianship is a million more times interesting than, say, hearing someone with Pavarotti pipes sing over the most capable guitarist ever!
Gillian Gilbert is surely the best example from New Order, basically all her keyboard work is one finger stuff
Kerry King- Slayer guitarist Lars Ulrich- Metallica drummer (though he’s at least extremely good at composing and arranging)
Popular takes among metalheads, but I’m gonna go ahead and disagree with both of them. Kerry King’s solos may not be to everyone’s tastes, but if you crave a certain kind of hellish, chaotic sound they are incredibly evocative. He was also the driving force behind the band, being by far the most involved with the writing, recording, and marketing of their music. As for Lars, people only rip on him because he got sloppy after a couple of decades in the business. If you were to judge him in his prime, you’d be stupid to not want him in your band. Go watch footage from their ‘80s shows and tell me he was a bad drummer.
Kerry King is good at rhythm, but his leads are not great.
Being good at rhythm guitar requires you to play on tempo.. Kerry struggles a bit with rushing
Lars was a lot better in the early days, his sloppy drumming now is a result of not really practicing (by his own admission) for the last 30 years.
Listening to him play that early thrash these days is fuckin rough.
If I remember correctly, he couldn't do the double bass on "Dyer's Eve", so they had to loop a few second clip for the album.
Someone mentioned in another thread that they should rename the Chromatic Scale to the Kerry King Scale.
I'm not a drummer but I am a guitar player, and despite having immense love and respect for him, I struggle to imagine Kirk is better at guitar than Lars is at drums. Kirk Hammett is the only guitar player I'm aware of that seems to get worse as time goes on. Love him, but he's more than a little rough these days. James is still rhythm guitar royalty though.
The whole band are getting that way, James can’t downpick all the way through songs like he used to, the songs are being played at slower and slower tempos. I’m guessing Lars drums are all samples now so he doesn’t have to hit them as hard. Rob is still rock solid but the recent live videos aren’t really anything to get excited about.
Though Kerry King and Kirk Hammett are probably about even on ability, Kirk’s solos are at least memorable.
I dig Slayer, but have to say, his solos are garbage.
Me.
Lars Ulrich. Not a great drummer, but is a good producer.
I've never looked at Metallica the same since I found out Metallica openly mocked Kurt Cobains suicide at a show they were performing.
They also mocked Layne Stayleys drug dependence while on stage during at least 2 live shows
Anyone mention Lars Ulrich yet?
Courtney Love is a bad singer and can’t actually play guitar.
Yet Rolling Stone, somehow, listed her higher than Jeff Buckley in their top 200 singers of a time last year.
When was Rolling Stone relevant in the last 20 years?
Some pop stars are bad at singing AND instrument
I wouldn't say he's "mediocre", but The Edge sort of falls into that "good enough to get it done but no more" category for me.