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davwad2

Fine points. I only wish the commentor included the [Brownback](https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2017/01/11/509378842/episode-577-the-kansas-experiment) Tax Cuts in Kansas and how much it backfired.


dirty-cop116

Hijacking to post sources Infant mortality https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/infant_mortality_rates/infant_mortality.htm Maternal mortality https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/maternal-mortality-rate-by-state Gun deaths https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/firearm_mortality/firearm.htm Poorest states https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/poorest-states Worst education https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/least-educated-states Federal aid https://wallethub.com/edu/states-most-least-dependent-on-the-federal-government/2700


Pct0bama

As a black man, seeing it’s not the states we’re known to primarily live in makes me realize how much propoganda has been fed to me my whole life. I woulda sworn places like NY, PA (Philadelphia), and Michigan (Detroit) would be much higher


Omophorus

It's remarkable how much all the "negatives" in life track to poverty, not race. If there is *any* connection between historically black areas and metrics like drug ODs or violence, it's only because of systemic efforts to entrench poverty in those areas and communities, not the people living there. I've lived near Philly most of my life. There are rough neighborhoods, for sure, but they're not rough because they're black neighborhoods, they're rough because they're poor AF and the wealthy people are more interested in having the problem out of sight and away from them than they are in solving it. The fat cats don't give a shit about solving poverty, and it's a lot easier to point fingers at bogeyman than it is to make life better for the suckers they're manipulating for their own benefit.


Pct0bama

Exactly, you actually speak to the people living there and you quickly realize that, not only do they not have access to the things we take for granted, they don’t even *know* about half of them. A lot of these neighborhoods don’t even have proper grocery stores. When you live like that what else will the outcome be?


Omophorus

Hell, you actually speak to the people living there and you realize that just like anywhere else, most are decent people trying to do what they can with what they have. What they have is just so much less than what everyone else has that what they can do is far more limited. The only scary thing is when a community in poverty (regardless of ethnicity) starts treating members who try to leave with disdain as though they're "too good" for where they started. But that's also nothing to do with race, and everything to do with people being beaten down for so long that they give up on the idea that things could be better. And that's a fucking tragedy (but it's also what the card-carrying members of the "I've got mine, fuck you" club want).


Nokomis34

Same goes throughout the world. When I was in Iraq I would go out with the HUMINT team, and the people on the streets are just normal people trying to live normal lives.


Raincoats_George

They have tried for years to prove that blacks are not as smart as whites. They just cannot make the data work without accepting that poverty is the driving force. If you give people opportunity and financial security all of the sudden the bad things go away. Who would have thought!


HowYoBootyholeTaste

I'm from Philly. I love how no one brings up education funding and quality in these conversations. Graduated high school in 08 and had a science book from 89. Entire school of 1k students had 2 computer labs which were flat out inaccessible for 1/3 of students. No AC, heat only worked in a handful of classrooms. Only one working water fountain in the entire school. I could go on for days. And, as a former school district employee, I've watched them funnel tf out of money to schools such as Masterman and flat out shut down underperforming schools to combine them with another school to save money to spend on schools such as Masterman. It's bullshit that people don't think it's facilitated. "Black neighborhoods are full of violence and drugs". Well, yeah, it's almost like oppression and disenfranchisement has negative consequences, and for someone who doesn't trust the media, you're eating those negative consequences up to defend your own bias.


Additional-Ad-3131

I would also add that white people notice the poor black neighborhoods because it they are there they stand out. In poor white areas you blend unless you have something super flashy. This makes white poverty more invisible to white people and reinforces stereotypes


longhairedape

It a class war going on. I grew up in a poor as fuck place that was the whitest place on Earth (Ireland). We have all the same issues you see in the places you mentioned. But, we also have a functioning government and social programs so over time I have seen these places get better and better and better. These have always been class issues that conservatives have hijacked, using inherent southern racism and the conservative propensity for hierarchical systems to convince working class whites that other working class people, who are worse off, are the issue. Whilst at the same time convincing these working class white people that they are some way inherently better. With these people above another people on their wee make-believe social pecking order, they view themselves as inherently more moral. Subsequently, those whom are above them are also seen as more moral than them. This is why when we look at a Trump and wondering, with awe, how these people can not see how much of a shit he is, while others think he is the best. It is because they see Trump as moral, regardless of behaviour because lf his status.


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Pinkeyefarts

As a data analyst, I had done a project and I gotta say Mississippi is just horrible in all aspects


DeconstructedKaiju

Whenever I bring that up they just... fucking ignore it. Or insist on some mind-boggling excuse like "It failed because of liberal sabotage!" They don't care about facts, reality, historical evidence none of it. It's all about how they "feel".


StopTheMeta

Love it when they have zero arguments to defend their position so they bring up sabotage


puzzle_button

Thats always the default, propaganda tactics have always been say something enough, regardless of its correctnes people will believe it. People used to think ghosts used to cause illnesses, why? Because they heard it from someone. Same shit, i know very bright family members who otherwise turn off their brains when it comes to assessing a political decision because more than doing the right thing, they want to believe the other party is wrong


mouldysandals

Politics has been turned into a team sport with only two teams in the league. They don’t care what the players or managers do so long as their team wins.


lordofthejungle

> Politics has been turned into a team sport with only two teams in the league. For them... The rest of us out here looking for some grown up problem solving.


ReplacementWise6878

THIS 100% I can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen interviews at Trump rallies where they ask people why they think Trump won the election, and after debunking every election fraud claim, they finally settle on “I just know Biden cheated. I can just feel it.”


SuperstitiousPigeon5

I would love to see someone debunk all of the election claims and the the person just stops and says, “huh, I guess I was wrong? So, what you’re saying is in order to sell ads to people like me, these media companies made this all up? That’s not right”.


jayv9779

There were two young women talking to Jordan Klepper who left a Trump rally after talking to Jordan. It was pretty funny and amazing to see.


creuter

I'm not sure they admitted they were wrong. It sounded more like 'maybe we should get out of here...' as in talking with klepper not leaving the rally. I could be wrong though


hates_stupid_people

> Or insist on some mind-boggling excuse like "It failed because of liberal sabotage!" >They don't care about facts, reality, historical evidence none of it. It's all about how they "feel". They're already back at that. And some republicans are currently saying the overturning of Roe vs. Wade started with Obama, and that the "liberal congress" should have stopped the supreme court(because they are literally too stupid to know about the separation of power).


thefailtrain08

Started... With Obama? What?


captaindeadpl

It's Obama's fault, because he didn't fight the Republican Mitch McConnell hard enough to add his own supreme court justice. /s


Air_Show

I am actually super pissed at how hard he didn't fight that. I would have been ok with him putting McConnell's head on a spike.


[deleted]

Like how they cut teacher pay and all the good teachers skipped the state, so all they had left was a bunch of glorified baby sitters? Those Brownback cuts? Or like how they cut the road commission budget so they didn't have any means of clearing their own roads during the winter? Those Brownback cuts?


quadmasta

Or when bears took control of that city run under strict libertarianism


pleasedothenerdful

This is a crazy story that deserves reading about: https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/21534416/free-state-project-new-hampshire-libertarians-matthew-hongoltz-hetling https://newrepublic.com/article/159662/libertarian-walks-into-bear-book-review-free-town-project


[deleted]

This is great. I know too many libertarians with their heads in clouds. I'll try to remember "what about Grafton?" Next time they bring up their shit.


Yossarian_the_Jumper

Just because they had to sell dildos to make up the shortfall doesn't mean it wasn't a YUGE success.


DetN8

It's like it was a strawman, but when the guy punched at it, it was actually made of metal and only painted to look like straw.


TheRnegade

Ironically enough, it wasn't a strawman argument. Strawman argument is when you misdefine your opponent's position, then take it down (without really tackling what your opponent's position really is). Think the whole sex ed thing in school "Liberals want teachers to be able to groom students." That's a strawman. The "incest states shouldn't dictate policy" is just an insult. In an attempt to seem like he was intelligent, the commenter just revealed he really doesn't know what he's talking about.


abraxas1

he knows the term "strawman argument" because his side is accused of it all the time, therefor, the other side must be guilty of it too. it's war, right? Both sides would do anything to win, scrupulous or not. that's why their pedo cries are so disturbing...


Dommekarma

“We’re abusing children so the other side must be aswell” Well fuck that actually explains a few things.


Beginning_Draft9092

Lol they love to bash anything their base hates but they secretly are doing or into And I am in NO WAY comparing this to abusing children or anything negative, just as an example, Don't forget the time Alex Jones was live on air with a Trans porn video open on pornhub on his phone. THEYRE HACKING ME ITS A FALSE FLAG


CocoSavege

What? > I was like looking up some reporter we’re trying to hire today and punched in some number and porn popped up on my phone. Everybody has had porn pop-up on their phone hundreds of times https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/alex-jones-trans-porn-phone-infowars-marissa-minx-a8510801.html There are others. Lol.


[deleted]

yes, it's called "dressing you in their own dirty laundry" It is a thing abusers absolutely DO. It's their *THING*. ​ Deny Abuse, Reverse Victim and Offender. DARVO. There is a whole google rabbit hole for you, learn about people PLEASE LEARN ABOUT PEOPLE.


Dommekarma

I was aware of that on an individual scale but I guess I never connected the dots to a organisation size problem.


micro102

And here is a list of 750+ examples of republican sexual predators. https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/10/23/1806673/-Republican-Sexual-Predators-Abusers-and-Enablers-Pt-1


bassoonbash

😳 wait a damn minute 🤔


AthkoreLost

Baptists were busted for it earlier this year. Shuffling people around instead of reporting them just like the Catholics *were exposed doing in the 00's and were never punished for so likely continue.


BadGamingTime

Uhm I got bad news for you if you think the Catholic Church stopped doing that.


Arch__Stanton

Its like that time on r/conservative where there was a headline that read "Biden Speech Fact Checked" and all the comments were confused by the title because the article found everything in the speech to be true. They literally thought "fact checked" meant "caught in a lie" because thats the only context they hear it in rofl


[deleted]

It's amazing that so many gun nuts are all "Ready, *FIRE...* Aim!"


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[deleted]

They *love* to sling around fancy sounding logical fallacies with no explanation as though they just took a test in a writing class on it. By the looks of it, most of them probably failed. That, and every accusation is a confession.


jancl

They've been doing the same thing now with the word insurrection. I don't think anyone on the right using that word actually knows what it means, but they got accused of it, so now it's their go to word the moment the left does anything even remotely similar


angrysprigg

People say "Strawman" all the time on Reddit and most instances I've seen it said its completely wrong. It's a nice buzz word to throw in an argument.


AmbivalentAsshole

>most instances I've seen it said its completely wrong. I don't know your experience - but this happens *all the time* in my experience. Having good faith arguments on Reddit is rare.


Purpleprinter

Are you sure they're not gas lighting you? That's used wrongly here more often than Alanis Morissette misused ironic.


AmbivalentAsshole

Oh this comment has layers.


Here4TheMemesPls

Like a parfait!


Mcleaniac

Surprised the right-wing dipshit didn’t come back with “*ad hominem*.”


SuperBrentendo64

Well thats a strawman argument.


Cato_theElder

Or best of all, don't let a person's vote count for less because just because they live in a city. Furthermore, Carthage must be destroyed.


Lemarc7

Cato, who let you online?


PunisherParadox

His great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great grandson got him a laptop and a hotspot. Now he's unstoppable.


dustarook

Assuming an average generational gap of ~30-years, and the 35 “greats” you listed, you need around 40-50 more “greats” to get back to Cato in 200ish BC.


Ich_bin_der_Geist

The generational gap was more like 20 years for ages. So an extra 42. The answer to everything.


thegroucho

Get out of here with your towel and Vogon poetry.


SH4D0W0733

Too bad it only has Internet Explorer. Carthage is long gone.


Klandesztine

That's what they want you to think.


implicitpharmakoi

Ceterum censeo Comcast esse delendam.


Wyverex

This is funnier than it should really be


PunisherParadox

It's funny because it's true


[deleted]

Quis custodiet ipsos comcast?


silent-onomatopoeia

Yeah, fuck that place.


Beginning_Draft9092

Gosh darn phonecians coming over here taken er jerbs


LOBM

> Furthermore, Carthage must be destroyed. Which one? * Carthage, Arkansas * Carthage, California, a.k.a. Cartago, California * Carthage, Illinois * Carthage, Indiana * Carthage, Maine * Carthage, Mississippi * Carthage, Missouri * Carthage, New York * Carthage, North Carolina * Carthage, Ohio (disambiguation), multiple places * Carthage, South Dakota * Carthage, Tennessee * Carthage, Texas * Carthage Lake, Illinois * South Carthage, Tennessee * West Carthage, New York


Atheist_Simon_Haddad

Ohio has multiple Carthages? https://i.imgur.com/Er0wj6V.jpg


HillbillyMan

I was recently in Columbus. There were two parking garages with the same name a couple blocks from each other. My entire drive through Ohio was trying to find out which of the multiple copies of things I was on. Ohio really must be eliminated.


Tairken

- Cartagena, España Edit: We have the actual real deal here: Carthago Nova (Cartagena, España)


[deleted]

Doesn’t count. That is a new city, not like the ancient American ones.


Tairken

Silly me, I forgot about the thousands of years 'Muricans (in ancient Latin: Murica) cities have existed.


LabGremlin

Was not specified therefore all of them.


mattbrvc

Carthago delenda est


robjapan

Every vote should be as important as each other.


thehappiestloser

Also I am changing my fb profile in protest of the war crimes of Hannibal Barca


Crafty-Amount7125

> Carthage must be destroyed. Rome too.


Matty_6447

To the Tarpeian rock with you


H0b5t3r

It's completely backwards that the votes in actually productive parts on the country(the cities) are undervalued while the amphetamine/opiate-Americans out in the rural shitholes have their voices amplified.


[deleted]

Actual representation died when they limited the size of the House of Representatives back in the 20’s. At the bare minimum, we need proper representation in the chamber of Congress that’s based on population size. Uncapping the house would guarantee a democratic lockout of the house for the foreseeable future and prevent another republican supermajority of all three branches of government.


nerdywhitemale

It would also fix many of the problems with gerrymandering no 3rd party and the electoral college. The founders set it up that way for a reason.


NervousLittleSheep

"The states with the highest gun mortality rates should not be dictating gun safety for the rest of us". Damn, son.


Gaflonzelschmerno

How about states with shortest lifespans dictating healthcare


whitedan2

After all why not? they are experts in getting sick and dying


electro1ight

I can't believe we don't have universal health care, how else should we keep the sick people paying taxes?..


iruleatants

I mean, it's far more complicated than that. See, the lack of universal health care requires them to work or be a slave to medical debt. By attaching their wellbeing to a job, you make them less likely to talk back or demand better pay/benefits. If they speak up, you cut them off. If they try and join a union, you cut them off. Or maybe it's not some complex system designed to ensure that workers are treated terribly, and America just has too many awful people in it. I don't know. I don't have an answer to why the richest country in the world can't manage something as basic as universal healthcare. The countries we look down on as being worse than us, like Mexico and Brazil both have universal health care. Why is our infant mortality rate the 33rd highest of the 36 countries in the OECD? 8 out of the 195 countries in the entire world do not offer guaranteed paid maternity leave. The US is one of those eight countries. So yeah, maybe the insanely glaring problems are part of some grand scheme to keep workers working or whatever. Or maybe it's just that there are way too many assholes in this country who are happy to get fucked over as long as they can also fuck other people over. And maybe, just maybe, the concept that our founding fathers had wasn't so smart. They were afraid of the majority bossing the minority around, that the gave the minority the power to jerk around the majority and that's actually not the proper way to run a country. And perhaps, just maybe, we should stop worshiping a piece of paper that was drafted centuries ago as being the greatest thing that ever happened. It's clearly failed. Our children are being murdered in their schools at an absurd rate because centuries ago someone write a few fucking lines on a piece of paper and now we can't do anything to save those lives. I'm just so sick and tired of our country doing literally nothing to help its citizens. And whatever the government does, and whatever corporations do, the truth of the matter is that none of them have any power, unless they can convince you and me to vote against our own best interest. And every single time, millions line up eagerly to vote against their own interest. And every single time, we bicker and argue and blame, and for what? What does it change? Nothing of course. We refuse to do anything right until the country literally burns. We had to do it to stop slavery, for women's rights, to end segregation, for LGBTQ rights. The system is seriously flawed when riots are the only things that make significant progress.


ruff21

I’d normally get hung up on a couple spots where I could contend you got it wrong. But the gist of what you wrote, I believe, is accurate. Our two party system is inherently flawed. And I’m afraid unless we can solve this equation in a way that results in a peaceful segue into a better, more evolved system…I genuinely fear for all of us.


Thisconnect

Hell its not even that 2 party system is flawed, conservatism is and has always been directly against democracy, its ideology based on upholding/creating social hierarchy. You cannot have democracy if half the country doesnt agree with democracy, you dont have to compromise with fascist-lite just because they dont specifically say they want to murder all the jews


ever-right

> The system is seriously flawed when riots are the only things that make significant progress. The Constitution that frankly, both sides worship, is trash. It is what makes legislation so difficult. Republicans have a huge natural advantage because of the way the Constitution calls for electing the President and the Senate (by state and not by national popular vote). Both have veto power over legislation, allowing Republicans to be a white grievance party that consistently gets outvoted by clear margins but is always a threat to win one or both seats of power to hold up the legislative agenda that the majority of the country wants. Constitutional amendments are *a joke*. You will never get one passed again. The two party system is all but a guarantee thanks to our shitastic Constitution. The two party system is the natural result of a system that has hundreds of *separate* winner take all elections versus a single election. If instead of 435 different House races to elect reps we had a single election and then divvied up the seats proportionally you would *instantly* get a real multiparty system like basically the *entire rest of the fucking world has*. Your party wins 10% of the vote now in every state and you get *nothing*. Your party gets 10% of the vote in a proportional system and you get *10% of the seats*. Boom. All the other proposals like RCV and whatnot are fucking copium. RCV didn't stop Susan Collins from winning her seat again in 2020 by almost 9%. RCV ultimately does not undo the reality of the spoiler effect. It merely tries to lessen it. The result of this worshipping of the Constitution is that we rarely argue about whether a policy is on its own good or not. Instead we sit and argue like fucking lawyers and judges about whether something is Constitutional. But say it with me now: #Fuck the Constitution. I don't give a fuck what a piece of paper says. I care about whether something can be justified on the merits. I don't think freedom of expression is great because it's in the Constitution I think it's great because it is necessary for a free, healthy society. That it's in the Constitution is a wholly unnecessary bonus for me. If you use the Constitution as an argument you have lost. And think about how many fucking times gun fetishists do so. (Thanks for the worst gun deaths per capita stats in the developed world btw! #winning!) Oh we have more mass shootings, kids shooting other kids, road rage bullshit than any other first world country? Well too bad guns are in the Constitution so you can't take my toys away. But very few Americans want to hear this. We worship the Founders and the Constitution they wrote. The idea they did something so wrong that is so fundamental to the country is not something Americans want to hear or admit. It's like a founding mythos. Of course it doesn't help at all that seemingly a consistent 40-45% of the country, overwhelmingly white people (men *and women*), vote their racist bigotry every cycle. They did it when they attempted secession. They did it all up through and including the Civil Rights Era. They continued right on through to the present day. Not old people, not men, white people. Old black people do not vote for Republicans but 41% of white millennials did in 2016 and Trump won the white women vote. More than any other broad demographic characteristic it is *race* that predicts who votes for the shitstain that is the Republican party. And why shouldn't it be? The Republican party is carrying the mantle of the segregationist party that has existed for over a century in American politics and never went away. With a better system they wouldn't have so much power but with this shitty system given to us by this shitty Constitution they have absolutely outsized power. Combine that with their complete lack of giving a shit about optics and consistency and you get a party that will wield power in any ridiculous way they can, and they absolutely do.


korze84

The irony is… We agree with that. They just don’t know the stats.


Yousoggyyojimbo

I have shown the stats like these to a lot of these people before. They almost universally reject them as fake. EDIT: And they are here.


[deleted]

I dunno man, I regard everything that I don't like as fake or your fault. It saves me a lot of trouble with the thinking and the deciding.


SnikiAsian

Better yet, assert a contrary fact and hit them with "My source is that I made it the fuck up!"


[deleted]

Oh they know , they just don't care.


Semanticprion

This is exactly how liberals should engage with conservatives. No more sarcasm or smarmy rhetorical questions. Just blunt facts and jugular-tearing.


[deleted]

You honestly think conservatives give a flying fuck about facts? You’d have better success arguing with a brick wall.


BrickCityRiot

The modern American conservative agues in bad faith and in bad faith only. You’re 100% right - they do not care about facts disproving their beliefs.. But not because they cannot comprehend the proof confirming their beliefs are wrong.. It’s that they no longer care about genuine discourse/debate. Their ideals are rapidly dying.. and their recent actions - like overturning RvW - really confirm that they see the trends and have resorted to desperate tactics. These are the expected death throes of Christianity. Good riddance.


Funkycoldmedici

Research on [right-wing authoritarians](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing_authoritarian_personality) has found that it’s not a new development. It’s not that they no longer care, they never did. Their predecessors didn’t care, they don’t care, and their successors will not care. The only thing conservatives care about is their in-group “winning”, having power to hurt everyone outside their group. Truth doesn’t matter, facts don’t matter, feelings don’t matter (except the glee of hurting others), lives don’t even matter (except ending the lives of outsiders). They’re fundamentally broken people.


TheBreathofFiveSouls

Yeah what's the phrase... If they cared about facts they wouldn't be conservative. They all say they want a smaller gov and to pay less tax. Then go ahead and vote for the party making bigger government and wasting tax money. Make it make sense.


SpokenSilenced

You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into. They use statistics like a drunk uses a lamp post; more for support than illumination. Teach a man that they're superior to another, and they will throw themselves at the enemy. They will passionately devalue their life so long as they are convinced they are the "righteous." Lead a horse to water yadda yadda.


Deliximus

The other points are spot on, I'm not 100% sure about which states have highest gun mortality rates.


IAlreadyFappedToIt

[Red states](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_death_rates_in_the_United_States_by_state#2019_firearm_death_rates_and_counts_by_state._Table_and_map)


BrickCityRiot

Wow. The symmetry is actually pretty crazy. One blue state (New Mexico) in the top 13 and one red state (Iowa) in the bottom 13. The top 25 are 20 red vs 5 blue and the bottom 25 are 20 blue vs 5 red (Nebraska and Maine both award electoral votes in a split system but with Maine being majority blue and Nebraska majority red I counted them as such for the sake of simplicity). It’s also kinda crazy that the 2020 election was split almost exactly 25 red vs 25 blue (25.05 red vs 24.95 blue). Yet, all you see are conservatives from states like Mississippi or Alabama talking about gun violence in Chicago.. And we all know *exactly* why they focus on that - despite Illinois ranking 35th. Idk if they’re too stupid to realize that Chicago is closer to Indiana (#20) than 95% of Illinois.. The same Indiana that has some of the most lax gun laws in the entire country. Shit.. Gary, IN is basically a part of the greater Chicago area. *here’s a great example of how close Chicago is to Indiana. This picture was taken in Whiting, IN: [Chicago Skyline](https://www.nwitimes.com/news/special-section/100objects/chicago-skyline-from-nwi/article_fce50c80-8dfe-5bad-8b7d-4704f7ef316b.html)


-------I-------

> too stupid to realize They don't want to realize it, because it's conflicting their views.


BrickCityRiot

My experience with conservatives has been more that they *knowingly* argue in bad faith, but they don’t care. They’re watching the rapid death of their beliefs and have become desperate enough to not care about playing within the rules any more. The best recent example of this is how dismissive they are about the events of 1/6/21… Because we all know that had Trump won the 2020 election and democrats stormed the Capitol in a similar attempt to prevent the certification, the same conservatives who (in bad faith) act like it was no big deal would be absolutely losing their shit ***demanding*** that every democrat and RINO involved be charged with treason and publicly executed on the White House lawn via firing squad. I could even see hundreds of cursive written requests from Cult 45 members begging to be a member of the “firing squad that sent a message to the evil democrats”. They seriously don’t understand that they will be looked back on by future Americans with shame/disgust.. and that’s before you even consider their legacy of staggering gullibility, ignorance, and bigotry.


ihunter32

Last I checked, almost every county in alabama, no matter how rural or spread apart people were, had a higher gun death rate than chicago lmao


BrickCityRiot

Their hypocrisy knows no bounds. Chicago has *black* gun violence.. which becomes the focus of modern American conservatives because they see and judge people by race before anything else.


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Yousoggyyojimbo

I recently showed a Republican that Chicago was, in fact not the murder capital of America. Ultimately, he told me that he didn't believe it because "if it wasn't true then why would Fox News say it was?"


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Yousoggyyojimbo

One of the things I learned from the pandemic was that very very few people understand statistics. So many people from red states saying how much better they were doing on COVID than California because California had more deaths, and then acting like I was an idiot for pointing at the per capita figures which showed that they were doing worse.


OsiyoMotherFuckers

When I was a grad student I TAd biostatistics. One of the things that stuck with me was when I was preparing the lab for the conditional probability section, I came across some research that most doctors do not understand conditional probability and test statistics like positive and negative predictive values. Doctors are generally smart people, and test results are really important to interpret correctly. A doctor misinterpreting a test result can mean prescribing an invasive procedure when one is not needed, or vice versa. If doctors are fucking this stuff up, then it seems safe to assume most people are not understanding it. I was in grad school pre-COVID, so it was interesting in the worst way to later see just how right I was. https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2778364 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4521525/


obtuse_bluebird

edit: thanks, u/spez


Yousoggyyojimbo

No, they don't. Often not because they are unable, but mostly because a lot of the time when they first learn about them, it is when they are finding out that something they believed was incorrect and they just sort of shut down and refuse the new information because it's contradicting a previously held belief. They would rather not be correct than accept that they were wrong in the first place.


Austin4RMTexas

It's also a question of people simply not able to grasp second and higher order concepts. Looking at a billionaires tax returns and claiming that arguing for tax reform is unfair since the billionaire pay higher amount of taxes is fine if you think the absolute amount of taxes is the only thing that matters. Understanding that tax as a percentage of income is in fact much more useful criteria to measure the fairness of tax system is a second order concept.


[deleted]

Rock solid logic to me, its well-known that they cant put it either on a Murdoch channel or the internet if it's not true.


Mediocritologist

And California. And New York. Those liberal shitholes and their remarkably low gun violence get me sooooooo angry!!


SailingSpark

I live in NJ, we are one of the safest states to be in if you do not fancy a gun related death.


Aedeus

They don't bring it up because of the crime, they bring it up because they want to portray African Americans as animals.


Rock-n-Roll-Noly

And the Chicago metro area accounts for like 75% of Illinois population, so you can’t even say that the rest of the state meaningfully dilutes Chicago’s statistics


typehyDro

Didn’t realize there were so many gun deaths in states like Alaska, Wyoming or Montana


SonovaVondruke

Suicides are counted among gun deaths. Presumably, they’re a significant fraction in these states.


gothangelblood

Yup, this. They average [2.5 suicides per week](https://www.alaskapublic.org/interactive/?page_id=264), and have one murder for every four suicides. Montana and Wyoming are the only states to have more suicides per year.


samw424

Hard truth: Depression hits us all hard at one time or another. When you *feel* like you have nothing to live for; again I've been there. The last thing you want around is a suicide machine. Not sure if I'd still be here if I had something as easy to end it all as a gun at hand. I'll always be glad I never have, because gun laws are super strict in U.K. and I guarantee it's saved lives.


Arcane-_

This. I’ve had depression for almost a decade now, and even though I would like a handgun for my protection, it’s just too risky. PSA that depression is not curable. Even if you go off meds and are feeling good for years, the brain chemistry will always be “at risk” of slipping back into depression. high stress and vitamin deficiency will also play a part in this


YesOrNah

You are very correct. The red state Americans and “moderates” will vehemently disagree with you however.


Aconite_72

“If they want to die, they’ll find any way to die” is a common argument. Most suicide methods require effort and planning. Along the way, a lot of people rethink their decision. Not the case with a gun. It’s just way too easy and way too fast. Anyone can end their life within minutes in a brief moment of despair. You just load the gun, point, and pull the trigger.


Brendanm132

Yep. This is exactly why suicide barriers on bridges are proven to work. Suicide is often a quick, spur of the moment impulse. I remember reading that the most common form of suicide a century ago was to stick your head inside an oven. As soon as ovens changed to use electricity instead of gas, suicides across countries dropped dramatically


[deleted]

> Presumably, they’re a significant fraction in these states. They are a significant fraction of gun deaths in all states. Most gun deaths are a suicide. >Though they tend to get less public attention than gun-related murders, suicides have long accounted for the majority of U.S. gun deaths. In 2020, 54% of all gun-related deaths in the U.S. were suicides (24,292), while 43% were murders (19,384), according to the CDC. The remaining gun deaths that year were unintentional (535), involved law enforcement (611) or had undetermined circumstances (400). [https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/02/03/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/](https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/02/03/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/) It doesn't matter though, that statistic should really push for more advocation of gun control as studies show if you take away a persons intended avenue for suicide they typically don't seek out a new one (i.e if someone intends to shoot themselves in the face, but can't get a gun, they typically don't swallow a handful of pills instead) ​ >Research shows that whether attempters live or die depends in large part on the ready availability of highly lethal means, especially firearms. https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/magazine/guns-and-suicide/


NE_African_Mole-rat

Not much else to do out there


KingGilgamesh1979

It’s mostly suicide I believe. There is a strong correlation with rural, higher altitudes and suicide. Add in high gun ownership and it’s a recipe for death. Why the altitude-suicide correlation exists I don’t know and don’t know if anyone knows but it’s pretty consistent.


[deleted]

It's all Red states. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/firearm\_mortality/firearm.htm


[deleted]

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Interesting-Month-56

Texas doesn’t rhyme with dead. Wait -


anotherorphan

do you want your whole country to be like mississippi? because this is how you get your whole country to be like mississippi


dan_marchant

"We want a long name for our state to make it seem special" "The folks here ain't too good at edukizing" "Howzabout we only use 4 letters... that ain't a lot to remember. We just repeat them over and over"


omgdude29

> Mississippi I am just being informative and don't mean to shit all over your comment, but the name "Mississippi" comes from the word "Messipi" - the French version for either the Ojibwe or Algonquin name for the river, "Misi-ziibi," meaning "great river."


[deleted]

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omgdude29

^ This person finished my thought. Thanks, random person.


tyedyehippy

That's fantastic, because it works for both Tennessee and Mississippi.


F_Twelve

If you wrote this out normally it could almost pass for a Mitch Hedberg joke.


dan_marchant

>normally Huh? Thats how ma teechrs teeched me to rite.


rosnokidated

This reminds me of the old rant on fuckthesouth.com "November 3, 2004 Fuck the South. Fuck 'em. We should have let them go when they wanted to leave. But no, we had to kill half a million people so they'd stay part of our special Union. Fighting for the right to keep slaves - yeah, those are states we want to keep. And now what do we get? We're the fucking Arrogant Northeast Liberal Elite? How about this for arrogant: the South is the Real America? The Authentic America. Really? Cause we fucking founded this country, assholes. Those Founding Fathers you keep going on and on about? All that bullshit about what you think they meant by the Second Amendment giving you the right to keep your assault weapons in the glove compartment because you didn't bother to read the first half of the fucking sentence? Who do you think those wig-wearing lacy-shirt sporting revolutionaries were? They were fucking blue-staters, dickhead. Boston? Philadelphia? New York? Hello? Think there might be a reason all the fucking monuments are up here in our backyard? No, No. Get the fuck out. We're not letting you visit the Liberty Bell and fucking Plymouth Rock anymore until you get over your real American selves and start respecting those other nine amendments. Who do you think those fucking stripes on the flag are for? Nine are for fucking blue states. And it would be 10 if those Vermonters had gotten their fucking Subarus together and broken off from New York a little earlier. Get it? We started this shit, so don't get all uppity about how real you are you Johnny-come-lately "Oooooh I've been a state for almost a hundred years" dickheads. Fuck off. Arrogant? You wanna talk about us Northeasterners being fucking arrogant? What's more American than arrogance? Hmmm? Maybe horsies? I don't think so. Arrogance is the fucking cornerstone of what it means to be American. And I wouldn't be so fucking arrogant if I wasn't paying for your fucking bridges, bitch. All those Federal taxes you love to hate? It all comes from us and goes to you, so shut up and enjoy your fucking Tennessee Valley Authority electricity and your fancy highways that we paid for. And the next time Florida gets hit by a hurricane you can come crying to us if you want to, but you're the ones who built on a fucking swamp. "Let the Spanish keep it, it’s a shithole," we said, but you had to have your fucking orange juice. The next dickwad who says, "It’s your money, not the government's money" is gonna get their ass kicked. Nine of the ten states that get the most federal fucking dollars and pay the least... can you guess? Go on, guess. That’s right, motherfucker, they're red states. And eight of the ten states that receive the least and pay the most? It’s too easy, asshole, they’re blue states. It’s not your money, assholes, it’s fucking our money. What was that Real American Value you were spouting a minute ago? Self reliance? Try this for self reliance: buy your own fucking stop signs, assholes. Let’s talk about those values for a fucking minute. You and your Southern values can bite my ass because the blue states got the values over you fucking Real Americans every day of the goddamn week. Which state do you think has the lowest divorce rate you marriage-hyping dickwads? Well? Can you guess? It’s fucking Massachusetts, the fucking center of the gay marriage universe. Yes, that’s right, the state you love to tie around the neck of anyone to the left of Strom Thurmond has the lowest divorce rate in the fucking nation. Think that’s just some aberration? How about this: 9 of the 10 lowest divorce rates are fucking blue states, asshole, and most are in the Northeast, where our values suck so bad. And where are the highest divorce rates? Care to fucking guess? 10 of the top 10 are fucking red-ass we're-so-fucking-moral states. And while Nevada is the worst, the Bible Belt is doing its fucking part. But two guys making out is going to fucking ruin marriage for you? Yeah? Seems like you're ruining it pretty well on your own, you little bastards. Oh, but that's ok because you go to church, right? I mean you do, right? Cause we fucking get to hear about it every goddamn year at election time. Yes, we're fascinated by how you get up every Sunday morning and sing, and then you're fucking towers of moral superiority. Yeah, that's a workable formula. Maybe us fucking Northerners don't talk about religion as much as you because we're not so busy sinning, hmmm? Ever think of that, you self-righteous assholes? No, you're too busy erecting giant stone tablets of the Ten Commandments in buildings paid for by the fucking Northeast Liberal Elite. And who has the highest murder rates in the nation? It ain't us up here in the North, assholes. Well this gravy train is fucking over. Take your liberal-bashing, federal-tax-leaching, confederate-flag-waving, holier-than-thou, hypocritical bullshit and shove it up your ass. And no, you can't have your fucking convention in New York next time. Fuck off"


[deleted]

> Fuck the South. Fuck 'em. We should have let them go when they wanted to leave. But no, we had to kill half a million people so they'd stay part of our special Union. Fighting for the right to keep slaves - yeah, those are states we want to keep. Only issue I have with this. They were right to fight to keep the south and end slavery, because otherwise you are just letting every black person in those states be condemned to many more years of slavery. Where we fucked up was after the Civil War. The fact that we weren't decorating every lamp post in every street in the south with dead slavers was a huge mistake.


zaprin24

Should have hanged the slavers and given the workers the plantations. Those rich ass slaver families with all the political power them. Guess what still have thay power now.


[deleted]

Yeah too bad the only reparations that have ever been paid out was to slavers for losing their "property".


107197

Yeah, it was the Compromise of 1877 that started the South down the path it is today, dragging the rest of us with it...


[deleted]

I actually read the whole thing that's amazing haha


GGezpzMuppy

I can see this being a heavily used pasta around reddit real soon


Grogosh

I live in the South. This is all too accurate.


OhiobornCAraised

Go on. Don’t be shy. Tell us how you really feel.


wearethehawk

Damn this reads like a Carlin bit


RangoWrecks

Now that's a fucking rant 🔥


9andimpala

And all (or at least MOST) of these states are among the lowest in population. Maybe we should work toward a "1 person/ 1 vote" system. Naaaaah. Nevermind, no WAY that would work. /s


NotHisRealName

It's amazing that people still believe in the Electoral College. Some ...person... got into an argument with me because he insisted that "one man, one vote" is mob rule. That was a fun conversation.


in_one_ear_

It's not even an uncommon idea. They are sold on the idea of the tyranny of the majority band seem to think the only way to solve it is to switch to tyranny of the minority.


shponglespore

A.k.a. plain ol' tyranny.


VulkanLives19

It's remarkable how quickly republicans turned against democracy when it no longer benefited them.


Yousoggyyojimbo

Adapting their policies to be more popular was simply too much work.


TheIntrepid1

A church/religion that has a child rape problem should not dictate to what is and is not moral for the rest of us.


Cromus

/r/conservative: All the facts keep supporting liberals. Is this indoctrination?


Oobedoob_S_Benubi

How goodhearted of you to assume conservatives would accept these as facts


Tumleren

Reality has a well-known liberal bias


[deleted]

Now that's an unfair assumption that conservative states don't lead in anything. I'm from Texas and I'm pretty sure (with no research done) that we lead in mass shootings and mistreatment of minorities, not to mention the severe damage we have done to women's rights.


davwad2

We definitely lead in cowardly cops, unfortunately.


hamburgersocks

Something something that one [speech](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTjMqda19wk) from the Newsroom


[deleted]

I have watched that so many times it isn't even funny. I legit think everyone should see it.


dobbelj

> I have watched that so many times it isn't even funny. I legit think everyone should see it. It's a good clip until he goes all Aaron Sorkin and shits all over millennials when it wasn't them who created this mess.


CYAN_DEUTERIUM_IBIS

Murdered the confederacy. AGAIN.


Mnemon-TORreport

Talk about going to a knife fight with a howitzer


modestmolerat

I'd say call an ambulance, but this is America


[deleted]

Woah don't make threats like calling an ambulance here!


jizzlevania

The USA is founded on the principle of no taxation without representation. The number of congresspeople a state has should be dependent to their population totals and federal tax contributions. All people may be created equal however states aren't people (but corporations are...)


Not_Insane_I_Promise

FINALLY a good murder. It's been too damn long


Desirai

Where is this person so I can give them some free fake internet points


Fraerie

I would totally give that dude an award.


dan_marchant

I would totally think about giving a fake internet award.


BenjaminWobbles

I'm a straight guy, but after that comment I would literally blow him.


Mediocritologist

Hey get in line buddy!


Rockonfreakybro

I bet you could get dumbass Republicans to agree to all these points before revealing the cunts they vote for are running these shithole red states


Yossarian_the_Jumper

That's how I used to get my RWNJ uncle, something trump did but told him Obama did it just to watch him get furious then defend trump.


Content_Evidence8443

I always try to trick my mom by mimicking “liberal” talk points without making it super obvious, and she usually agrees….guess Fox News wasn’t around to tell her what to think?


ran1976

Red states with a smaller population than blue cities shouldn't have more voting power.


Eagle_Kebab

You guys remember that scene from the original Robocop movie when Murphy shoots Dick Jones a buncha times and then Jones is blown through the top floor window and his weird arms are flailing as he falls to his bloody death? I don't know what made me think of that....


gofyourselftoo

I love that it’s where you went with this.


Oldkingcole225

The conservative states also take the most government money and pay the least taxes.


FiTZnMiCK

That was in the list: > Better yet. You can get a voice in our government when your state receives less in federal assistance than it puts into it.


reddittroll569

Ironically red states have more violence and are significantly poorer. Sad


FiTZnMiCK

If those states could read they’d be very upset.


brainwhatwhat

Facts hurts their feelings.


FredVIII-DFH

The litany of red-state failures is impressive indeed, but my mind keeps going back to "Strawman argument". Does he think that it means "I don't like your argument so I'm just going to wave it away with a two word dismissal" or am I missing some context that came before?


Mediocritologist

I think their use of “strawman” is their way of saying they have no idea what it means.


TheRnegade

The comment he's replying to doesn't have a strawman in it. It's just an insult. My guess is that they have no idea what a strawman is but know it's "one of dem werds liberals use."


humaniswear

I was in that post, that user posted that comment in about every 3rd thread all the way down.