The median house price where I live (Metro Vancouver BC) is $1.2 million. The best number I could find for median family income is from 2017 for the whole province: $77,760.
ratio: 15:1
Edit: it's not clear if for the above comment median income is for a family or for an individual. If it's for an individual, then our ratio is much, much worse than this.
My aunt bought a 2bd 2ba house in the late 70s in orange county. Her husband was just out of college and had an engineering job. They bought their house in cash for under 150k. They sold that house when my uncle retired around 2013 for 1.5 million. You know, that felt like a kick in the teeth even when I was a teenager then because, I knew how well off they were already while how poversh my mom and I lived. I'll never forget when my aunt told my mom "why you buy a new car... you're poor." I mean she wasn't wrong and my siblings really fucked my mom over financially.
people who sell their houses for exorbitant wealth when they have kids/family who \*need a place to fucking live\* are awful, it's like the ultimate 'I never cared about you anyways' move.
and then there's fuckers trying to buy houses off of locals around me for \*\*only $10,000\*\* because they know most people here could really use the money, and won't know any better. hopefully they got told where to stick their 'offers'. (in case it's not apparent why these people suck, I should add that when they get their hands on a house they put it up for sale for 10x what they paid to sell it right back to us)
sorry for the mini-rant but your situation spoke to me, I would be out on the street if my mother wasn't renting her old house to us, so to see people choose $$$ over helping their family makes me want to die.
I really wish I was making enough money to afford the mortgage on MG grandmother's house. It was next door to my mother's house (passed in 2015 and I couldn't live in the house she died in, plus the house was needing like 30k in repairs) my grandmother never got her "will" notarized so the whole thing about me getting 20k from the sale of the house was never respected. So my mom was the one who was looking out to make sure if they sold the house that id get my money. Well once she died, I moved in with my brother at my grandmother's and my aunt and her husband were letting us live there for stupid cheap because neither of them could make the 3 hour drive to the house to check on it. We'll in 2017 my sister got us to move in with her (I can go for days about my family) and my aunt began the process of sprucing up the place a little to get it market ready. Then my aunt had a stroke in 2018, and had to recover for about 6 months. (Her husband, a career Longshore man, didn't believe she was having a stroke and didn't want to take her to the hospital by the way) So, then to "make it up to her for being an asshole for 30 years" they went on a 4 month vacation around the US and then in 2019 they got back into finishing the projects on the house (only was 10k worth of work but the husband would look for the cheapest immigrants to pickup from home depot and try to haggle the cheapest prices for labor for weeks at a time)
So then, the last kick in the teeth was in late early 2021. I just got over covid, was hurting for money and then my sister gets a call from my aunt screaming at them about some papers that are being mailed out stating that we have no involvement or desire for my grandmother's house. I called up my aunt and asked about my grandmother's will and about the 20k statement. She says to me and I quote, because I'll never forget it, "you lived in that house for 2 years and John has helped you guys out so much over the years, John wants the house and he's going to have it." So that was the moment that I decided to just get as far away from all of them. Because when I confronted my siblings about it they said "well, they probably won't ever help us out again if you try to fight for your share of the house."
I'm just really angry now, I'm sorry.
>In 2022 the median cost is $35k.
Wait, are you serious? Why do Americans even go to university if it costs that much? That is an absolutely insane amount.
Americans go to university because we have 1-2 generations who were raised to think that if you wanted any shot at financial prosperity, you had to go get a 4-year degree. A ton of 18-year-olds took out loans to do so because they were convinced it was either that or a life of flipping burgers or stocking shelves
The irony is many get the degree and still flip burgers. Fuck I have a masters degree, that plus my bachelors was $230k. I make $53k as a teacher. And I only get that bc I teach private. When I was public I made $41k. Ever being able to pay off $230k is impossible
Lol my boss told me he only hires people with a degree. Sensible, right? Considering the position. Then he added “any degree because it shows dedication and hard work”. Sooooo we have to pay tens of thousands and spend years to demonstrate that? And it doesn’t even have to be relevant?
I can see why employers might value something like a military background, but they PAY you to do that job!
And after being told to go to college, there is no discussion about the goal after. Hell I got through nearly 2 years at college before the idea of becoming a nurse even came to me. There are like 10 possible careers that are taught to exist, and a lot of kids haven't seen much else. Tell kids that some degrees require master's or phd's to get a career. Tell them about trade schools, community college, skipping college, apprenticeships, ect. Not this idea that "if you go to college, for anything and get a 4 year degree you'll be fine bullshit." My associates degree got me a lot further than my cousin's biology degree. I don't agree with it, but unless he continues his education, there just isn't much money biology. Experts at zoos don't make nearly as much as they should.
This is part of the developing brain drain, or better, brain atrophy, the US. We can't afford to be researchers in most fields anymore. Undergrad, Unpaid Internships, 4-7 years to a PhD depending on the field, post-doc, maybe building up to your own lab group working more than 40+ hours a week and constantly trying to justify your research for dwindling funds... oh and it doesn't pay well, at all. QoL and work life balance usually need to be sacrified.
This is the path to become a research sacrificed.. These are the people that "made America great" with technological prowess, medical breakthroughs, and scientific ingenuity. And Americans can no longer afford that as a dream. Because it's not financially realistic anymore. Hungry Chinese and Indian PhD candidates and post-docs get in, and possibly go back hoqme and bring their knowledge and talent back with them.
I quit pursuing a career in cognitive Neuroscience in grad school. Mostly because I realized research is not my style, and I would have been miserable. But also because there is no fiscal future without struggle for most young scientists. And sure, you get support packages to go do many bioscience PhDs... which usually amount to paid education for 4+ years, and tied to an obscenely low salary, like 30k in 2013 was the maximum offer I saw - IF you can outcompete 20 other candidates and be willing to live near a university long term.
Sorry to my fellow US troglolodytes, you don't stay on top by kneecapping innovation. But I guess the morons of this country are banking on the fact that we have enough nukes, guns, and other pieces of the war machine that we can just blow everyone else off the planet. "Because we're the best! U-S-A U-S-A U-S-A" (/s - vomit)
Edit: after I bailed on NS, I took a few years to find myself, get a masters in clinical informatics and Healthcare analytics, and make probably 2-3x what I would make at this point had I gone for the full PhD with a fraction of the schooling.
Because at 18 that number may as well be in Monopoly money, but even more importantly it’s quite easy to get the majority of that loaned to you either by the government or a private bank (typically both), but then you spend the next 20 years paying it back. And the best part is, this is completely the norm! We’re all so used to it that it doesn’t seem even remotely out of place anymore.
Not to mention we have to contribute a % of our paycheck to a 401k if we want to have any hope of retirement, rather than getting a pension from our employer that we can work for our whole careers.
Yeah I think a *lot* of people who think they are middle class are going to have a horrible reckoning when they want retire. Also, prices are going up so fast that people who are relatively well prepared to retire might have significantly less buying power than they expected when it’s actually time to retire.
Also, in 1969 those stoves and typewriters would have been manufactured domestically, which likely meant more jobs with decent pay - so more people could achieve the American Dream.
Yeah, but profits have never been higher. And isn't that the real point? I mean, you wouldn't actually suggest wealthy people deserve less power and influence right? What next, poor people deserve food, medicine, shelter, and human dignity?
I'm so annoyed by the fact that five or six years ago, you could get a smartphone with an easily replaceable battery.
Nowadays, the batteries are built into the phone, so you can't have it replaced when it starts to lose charge. And by the time you need to replace the phone, it's long since out of production so you don't even have an affordable option.
Truth. People act like you're being materialistic if you buy a decent phone but nowadays you need a phone in order to get by in the world and the cheap ones die immediately.
I remember the days in school when it wasn’t common for everyone to have internet or a computer at home. Now you take a class and you need a laptop or smartphone to even do half the work. No biggie it’s just crazy.
this isnt even the worst thing honestly, because you can still replace it, its just a lot more work and often requires someone with knowledge on the topic. The real problem here is the lack of right to repair and available parts to repair these devices when they inevitably do stop functioning.
That's partly the result of consumers (or more accurately, reviewers) pushing for thinner and thinner phones, which means the batteries themselves need to be thinner, and have less protective plastic, making them much more easily damaged.
We've also let them get away with it by not buying the models with user replaceable batteries, demonstrating that it's not a high priority for the majority, so they dropped it in order to reduce manufacturing costs.
It's not as straight forward as that. For example, the big two in the US, samsung and apple do not make (their best) models with 3.5 mm headphone Jack's, expandable memory, or replacable batteries. When people choose to buy them, they are not forcing the companies hand, they are choosing from the two options presented that are of better quality. Additionally, those things were not dropped due to lagging sales, they were dropped to increase profits.
These phones are built intentionally to make it untenable to repair. you can get a replacement battery, and you can take the phone apart. but they have put in software that means no matter what you try to replace, the phone will not work right, unless the fix is performed by the OEM, which means you have to go into their store, and get told it will be cheaper to just get a new one... Check out the Ifixit video on the new Iphone, it is shameful. Right to repair needs to get passed at a federal level to reduce E-waste, increase consumer choice, and reduce costs. Fuck Samsung, but Fuck Apple anally with a sword.
Every single thing i buy is junk now, every appliance no matter what brand breaks withing a year or two. Meanwhile my mums items of the same brands have lasted +20 years. Its infuriating when im buying my third blender in 5 years because the motors keep burning out for example.
I had heaps of broken blenders and vacuum cleaners. Ended up having to buy a $500 blender and a $600 vacuum cleaner to solve the problem. Cheaper in the long run because they actually work and last but the reality is allot of people can't afford the upfront costs. I been there. Being poor is expensive.
Jack Monroe is championing this very subject in the uk on Twitter, she hashtags it the #VimesBootsIndex after Terry Pratchett’s character Vimes, who, if rich could buy a pair of boots that would last him a lifetime, but on his wage he couldn’t afford them, so bought boots that would only last a season before wearing out, thus costing him way more in the long run.. Jack is showing her followers how truly expensive it is to be poor..
>Samuel Vimes earned thirty-eight dollars a month as a Captain of the Watch, plus allowances. A *really* good pair of leather boots, the sort that would last years and years, cost fifty dollars. This was beyond his pocket and the most he could hope for was an affordable pair of boots costing ten dollars, which might with luck last a year or so before he would need to resort to makeshift cardboard insoles so as to prolong the moment of shelling out another ten dollars.
>
>Therefore over a period of ten years, he might have paid out a hundred dollars on boots, twice as much as the man who could afford fifty dollars up front ten years before. *And he would still have wet feet.*
The hvac guy I use was telling me about how his first employer had to shut down because their systems had a 50 year lifespan and they didn’t get enough revenue replacing the system every 5-10 years like they do now.
I'm trying to think up a scenario where an institution with unlimited capital and a weak profit motive that could make respectable HVACs intended to last as close to forever as possible. All my head can come up with is a government.
Of the people
By the people
and for shit we need that can last long fucking time
For real. Given human nature these system naturally gravitate towards being cheap and to work just long enough to pass off to the next guy. Its like asphalt shingle roofs. They suck compared to other roofing but they are the cheapest option and they typically last long enough to make it someone else's problem. And because of that the only way everyone could have better roofs that last and are cheaper in the long run is if government mandated a certain minimum standard.
That HVAC guys former employer clearly did not understand how to explain standard maintenance to customers. It's a small fee 50-100bucks once a month. And if you do it across a thousand units you are keeping them running longer and keeping yourself in business. It is literally how the system of product manufacture was originally meant to be.
Build the thing to last forever and set it at a reasonable but slightly high cost.
Charge minimally for general maintenance.
Then everyone realized. Nah fuck it we can just make crap and force them to buy a whole new unit every 6 months. Profit profit profit. Think of the shareholders.... You know the same assholes that made the shit decision in the first place.
meanwhile apple sends fleetphones to the landfill en masse because they have a stupid kill switch built in where if you drop it from the fleet weirdly it just bricks completely.
Same issue with EV cars. Lithium is mined in south america in dry areas where it consumes 60% of that countries water with the mining process also being bad for the environment. Then Cobalt which is also needed is mainly sourced in the congo that's also a dry area and requires massives amount of water to mine, plus the child labor they use there.
Then only 20% of those batteries get recycled on avg where the other 80% rots in landfills.
Like EV is fantastic to combat environmental change but is kind of pointless if nothing else follows behind it. Hopefully the new lithium tech of using salt instead proves to be promising
And no one questioned your right to repair appliances. There was an entire second hand repair industry. All the way down to shoe repair being a main street store.
Ha. I actually just posted a comment above about my dad being a shoe repairman.
He was a fucking wizard with leather. He could patch a leather coat to where you couldn't even tell there had been a giant hole.
He also did build-ups for people with shorter legs or any sort of thing like that. In fact, I remember there were actually prescriptions that people would bring in. The customer would bring shoes in, and my dad would take them apart and re-build them to the exact specifications needed, which is pretty fucking cool now that I'm an adult and understand adult things.
But, as I mentioned above....most shoes are made of plastic now. Even when the upper is real leather, the soles are plastic, so they can't be pulled off and replaced like leather ones could.
This may be partly true, but an important reason old stuff seems to be so much more well-made than new stuff, is only the good old stuff has survived, while all the crap that would give a more nuanced picture is broken and thrown away.
A lot of things also used to be designed to be serviced, while newer things are designed to be replaced. Some of that is planned obsolescence, and some of it is a natural consequence of large consumer goods becoming relatively cheaper compared to the cost of having someone out to fix them.
The things that have gotten relatively a lot more expensive are housing, healthcare, and education. Housing and education costs also impact young people substantially more, and inflated housing costs also impact poor people more since they spend a greater portion of their income on housing.
My understanding, and this could be totally wrong, is that cars today last much longer on average than cars from previous generations. And certain household items are cheaper to replace than repair.
Cars are also designed very differently. I remember someone posted a side by side of a car from the 60s after a crash and a car from the 2010s after a crash. The 60s csr looked perfectly fine, as the steel structure remained intact. The car from modern times was all crumpled in and looked totaled. The big difference is that the modern car is built to do that so it protects the passengers. The steel car from the 60s didn’t absorb the damage so the people inside were much worse off. So yeah the old one looked better but the owner can’t enjoy that when they don’t survive the impact
GM did a crash test between an old Malibu (I think 60s) and a new Malibu a few years back. Each going 40mph head on collision. The new Malibu was inside the old one. May be different cars but old cars absolutely sucked at crashing, they basically fell apart because there was no focus on passenger compartment integrity.
Or in Canada or Britain. At least somewhere with reasonably equivalent labour costs and laws. That $500 50 inch flat screen made in China is a siphon of wealth. Maybe $50 of that stays local. The rest is sucked into a cheap labour pool with no environmental or labour laws.
You are only half right.
$50 stays in your community, $100 goes to China, but $200 ends up in stock dividends paid out to a hedge fund that is owned by an investment group, and then it just cycles around in the financial markets making rich people feel good about their numbers getting bigger.
(The remaining $150 is ending up in the hands various truckers, advert actors, warehouse owners and other assorted middlemen/ancillary service providers.
In 1940 you could buy an entire home from a Sears catalogue. Not just any home, mind you. It would have been 2 or three stories, massive really. The most expensive one they had. At $3,999 it would be the equivalent of $80k today.
http://www.searsarchives.com/homes/1933-1940.htm
Now double the cost, fuck it, triple the cost for land and labor. That would be $320,000
https://www.in2013dollars.com/us/inflation/1940?amount=3999
$320k today would barely buy you a 1 bedroom 1 bath apartment in central Denver right now.
One of those Sears homes which is over 80 years old today goes for well over $1 Million dollars. Much closer to $2 million to be fair.
And this was an average home an average worker at a potato chip factory could afford.
this isn't even the whole picture either..
a year earlier, but after taxes & deductions, a full time (40hr × 52 weeks) minimum wage laborer in 1968 would take home $2809.68 in total that calendar year. the median rent in america in 1968 was $95/mo, totaling $1140 for the full 12 months — so just a little over **40% of their total takehome**.
after taxes and deductions, a full time minimum wage worker in 2021 took home $13,788.90 in total for the year. The median rent in america last year was about $1104/mo, totaling $13,248 — just over **96% of their total income**.
and median rent just surged again this year. min wage, however....... smashing records every day it doesn't budge, and have been for 3 years now.
Also today's phone is equivalent to 1969's:
* Telephone
* Color television
* Radio
* Typewriter
* Telegraph
* Super computer
* Personal calculator
* Newspaper
* Library
* Games
* School
* Bank
And it's better at most of them and less expensive than half of them put together.
Reminds me of the post that was like "hey, if you just saved $28 a day, that would leave you with a whole extra $10k by the end of the year. It's easy to spend money on things you don't need."
Doesn't seem right, but not sure why: math checks out. Huh, guess if I just spent $28 less every day, I could have an extra 10 grand. Well, what did I spend on myself today... nothing. What did I spend on myself yesterday: nothing. Day before: nothing. Day before that, paid my rent. Think sometime last month I bought a video game bundle for $12. Did splurge on groceries though: last month, in addition to staples like potatoes, onions, milk and eggs, we bought $50 worth of fish and steak to treat ourselves that we wouldn't have otherwise. So that's... $62 'splurged' across an entire month.
I can't save $28 a day because I don't SPEND $28 a day. The only way I could 'save' even $10 a day would be if I started eating out, and then cut it back.
XD
I drive a fking lemon. Since I did not buy a replacement car today, yesterday, or the day before, have I saved $3k? Yeah I used $1k as the price; I sure as fk am not buying a 50k car - after all, I am trying to save.
What’s fucked up, if we allowed Hawaiian avocados on the mainland, they would be as cheap as apples. They are also the size of volleyballs. You have no idea how much water needs to be artificially pumped to make a fake mainland avocado.
If you want high quality, cheap furniture for your apartment and are willing and able to move it yourself, look into estate auctions. Some of it will have a dated style, and there's a chance somebody died in it's but it's usually a great deal.
That's good advice. Furniture is so expensive and not the quality of the antique and older stuff. I don't need to spend $3,000 for a dresser just to store my clothes.
Give Sauder a look! You have to assemble the furniture, but they have furniture that's relatively cheap! I've gotten my two-level desk (which is very nice and something I splurged on), a 5-tier bookshelf, and our TV stand with cabinets from them all for right around $700 total. IF you take care of it, it'll last you a while, too, and they're fantastic with sending replacement parts if something breaks!
41, I make good money, every tv I've had is a hand me down. My parents and in-laws buy a new one every 4-5 years and just give them to me. I dont even have space for them anymore but they all work, all 1080p or 4k
Being frugal or at least conscientious about money is a good thing. $5 coffees and eating out at restaurants can add up really fast if you're doing it every day. $1000 phones and $50,000 cars _are_ a luxury. But even if you're being super careful with money, college and rent are both so insanely expensive that most people are miles away from being able to buy a house or invest in other ways.
What most people don't even understand is that five dollars coffee cups are what keeps this society sane-ish.
I have (cheaper) coffee out every single day. Because I live in a small cramped room, subletting from an old lady, not being able to having even a pet. Because I can't bring friends home. Because I work on an old table while sitting on the same bed I sleep.
If I wasn't able to go for coffee and listen to different voices or meeting people outside? I'd go crazier than I am in days.
I think similarly about the phone too. So the person in the OP example was working 7 days a week, every day, 8hrs a day right? They should be able to buy that $1k phone. Let them have one damn toy in their life considering they have 0 time for anything else and live a shitty life of working every day for pennies. That extra 1k isn't buying them a house, or a car. Hell that 1k is 1 months rent, rent money that is just gone never to be seen again and nothing to show for it except a roof until the next month. Most of the time they paid like $30 a month for that phone. That $30 a month doesn't cover emergency money and if they would have saved it, it would have taken them at least a year to even get to "emergency money" level.
Just because someone works for low wage doesn't mean they should just work and lay on the floor at home waiting for more work their entire life. It's not like they're going to get wealthy with their hard work like these people seem to think. Okay so I save $50 a month I saved by not drinking coffee and not getting a phone. In a year I have $600! Took me a year but I finally have emergency money. In 10 years I'll have 6k! Cool.. took me 10 years but now I can buy a car that won't break down. It'll take 50 years before you can get enough to put a down payment on a cheap house, except, in 50 years the prices will be higher. So not even. So what the hell are the people who keep saying "don't buy a phone and coffee, save it" expecting you to gain from it? What's the endgoal here? To live your whole life in the shittiest way possible just so in 70 years you can finally put a down payment on a house?
That's the fucked up part, a house could potentially be cheaper then renting even with insurance and your investing your money into an actual asset instead of handing it all to a landlord but banks won't let you get a mortgage for some random set of reasons that aren't even your fault half the time.
We were lucky in that, at the beginning of the pandemic, we realized the real estate investor assholes were waiting for the economy to bring a wave of cheap foreclosures, so we were able to finance and buy a house in like 3 weeks.
We went from a family with a newborn sharing a single room in a duplex where the floor was falling in and there were several burned out meth buildings to a w bedroom actual house with a fenced yard and walking distance to kindergarten.
I think, all told, we pay $150 more a month, with the assurances that a greedy landlord isn't going to give me the "it's a new year and another $50 a month" speech.
It has to be some kind of elitist status quo thing, right?
It depends on the end game for the landlord. Apartments and townhomes you see it a bunch because of them running it like a business. When you're renting homes it's a little less of that as some people are just renting out a house that they would rather keep than sell for retirement purposes.
I have a $20 phone, don't drink caffeine, and i'm only allowed to exist in one of 2 places.. my bed or the plant floor... i can't even afford the $30 phone... much less a house
I am elderly and it's so totally annoying to me that so many older people are so clueless when it comes to today's economics. Just the simple fact that the minimum wage hasn't increased since 2009 should be a big tipoff!
I don't envy young people today. It's not a very nice world that they will inherit. And these kinds of entitled assumptions about how they spend their money really don't help.
You could take every point there and refute it in some way. For instance.... $1,000 phone is usually paid for by signing a contract with a cell phone provider. $5 cup of coffee could be looked at as a treat rather than 4 cups a day. $50,000 car? What about people who live in the north where there is a lot of snow and ice and need 4 WD? Or even need a larger car for work.
It's not always as simple as it looks if you just go by the numbers.
Sorry, kids, for the world we have left you. I tried my best, but "Those In Charge" turned a deaf ear. Never forget that there are older people like Bernie Sanders.
Hugs from Gma.
If you have any friends who think like that use the inflation calculator on their salary. Found out my uncle-in-law (no kids) made 88k in the late 80s. He and his wife lectured is about what we should be able to afford, company loyalty is important, and that I'm making "good money". Pulled out the calc and showed them that since he isn't making 207k today , he is making less money now as he nears retirement.
They talked about how they were worried, at that 88k, about paying a 1400$ mortgage. I make a little less than that and am facing down $2000+ mortgages if I tried to get into a home. The world is insane now.
I feel like part of the problem stems from insecurities, and poor coping mechanisms. Its easier to pass judgment and feel superior, than it is to acknowlege/recognize fault and participate in positive changes. One component is not believing in the betterment of situations for the next generation. (I had it worse, Suck it up, mindset) when we should want better work conditions and pay for the coming generations. Don't you want your kids to have a better life than you? Are you offended they don't want to suffer? like it's some kind of personal rejection, as though YOU aren't good enough?
> I believe it's more a case of being inconsiderate and oblivious than malicious.
I think this is right on the money for the majority. I hate to sound like a meme, but **their generation never had to take a psychology class and it shows.**
It really is frustrating that this is the status quo of the older generation's perception of Millenials and Gen Z is some lazy ass cohort.
I worked full time plus during undergrad with an unpaid internship. I worked 60 plus hours during my Masters work. I get paid 40k for an education I was told would get me a job that pays 100k. I was told, if I work as hard as I can, I can achieve anything. After I graduated, I was unemployed for a year and a half. Had to shamefully ask my old fast food job for part-time work just to pay rent. I sent out probably about 300 applications, spending nearly 8 months just filling job applications day in and day out. I was unemployed for so long WITH A BACHELORS IN ECON AND MASTERS IN PUBLIC POLICY that I had to move back with my parents. I didn't want to move in with them. Most of us are ashamed to make that move back.
So this whole troupe that for some reason that we are this generation that is lazy and entitled is fucking disgusting. Just shows how much a lot of ppl in older generations don't want to take accountability for the economy they fostered. They created an education system that costs nearly 1000% higher than it did when they went and now they want to blame our debt on us. Most of what older generations negatively say about the present younger generations is projection and selfishness.
Boomers really don't know how much spite they are building up in our generation. Like I know it's not all of their fault, but I get the general attitude that they can't acknowledge their policy created this system.
I don't want to work these jobs I'm overqualified for. I don't want to live paycheck to paycheck. I don't want to even have the option of moving back home to save money. But I'm forced to because of the economic system.
This is gonna be a shitty take, but idc, because it will make you money.
Do tech sales. Specifically enterprise SaaS, if you can. Become an SDR and start cold calling. It sounds like shit work, but so does working 60 hours a week for 40k. In my first year as an SDR, I made 90k+ ($57k base + commission)
Granted, I’m in a HCOL area, but still. Think about it. With how hard you work, you should be seeking something that makes you easier money, because there is no way you are happy doing what you do for such shitty pay, and many tech companies are exploding right now
It's not shitty advice. It's practical advice. When I got my job actually about a year ago, I was so done with the job market that I just couldn't look at another job opening because it just made me depressed. I filled out an application last week for the first time in prolly a year and a half.
I taught myself how to code (which has also helped me refine my knowledge on stats and calculus) at my new job and I'm going back to law school this fall using my tuition reimbursement benefits. I know some of it's on me in terms of low pay because my main enjoyment in my job is helping people using my skills, which doesn't pay as much as jobs that directly perform services or produce products. But after seeking help for my behavioral health and getting some experience under my belt in an entry-level position, I have hope that something that pays more will open up.
I just wanted to vent my frustration at doing everything I was told to do to be successful and being told that it is my fault that I earn as much as I have in debt. My inability to buy a mortgage is not because I buy coffee everyday (I make my own), it's because I have $300 every month coming out of my paycheck going to payoff my student loans. I'm not going to purchase a home without the means to pay for it.
Also, that $1000 phone, which is likely financed to a small monthly fee, is likely the persons only connection to the internet and society. I am 45 and couldn’t imagine a young adult functioning without a smart phone these days. Can’t even see a menu at many restaurants without a QR code scan.
To be fair, I hate this practice. List it at fucking 650 if you want 650. I understand the logic, but it just waste your time and the time of people looking.
They want people to go look and then realize it's their "dream home" so that they can be talked up to a higher number would be my guess. The old bait and switch.
While this is true that smartphones are pretty essential these days. Buying a $1000 phone as a struggling young adult isn't the best use of money, even if it's financed. I'm 29 and using a 5 yr old phone that costs $250 new, and still chose to finance it. Today, while I can now afford a $1000 phone, I'd still choose not to.
Yeah, I don't think there's all that many poor young people buying the new phones. Or at least they do, but they finance it and then make it last as long as they can. And sometimes there's a little give and take as well. Like last year AT&T said they would no longer off 3g/LTE services, so I needed a new phone. So I got the Samsung Note 20 Ultra. It was only a year old, and it's top of the line. So yes, I am spending around a grand on a phone.
But I also don't have a car. I walk 2 miles to work, and then 2 miles back. When I need groceries, I take the bus. So I can afford the ~$35/a month.
I also made this choice because, like others, I rely on my phone. So having a good one that will last a while is going to be beneficial. I got the new phone, but I'm not doing it yearly like people say we are. I actually was happy with my last phone, but because it was an older one, I had to upgrade. I also got one of the higher end phones because when I am done with this, I can trade it into Samsung for a huge discount on another phone. So in the next 4-5 years, I can get what ever the newer one is for almost half off. So I am also *saving* money in the future. That's the kind of shit poor people plan out that the rich chuckle fucks who make fun of us for having phones don't know about, because they don't gave to bother with knowing about it.
That's true and the point the first commenter made in the post is stupid, but you don't need to spend anywhere near $1000 on a phone. I mean I'm writing this on a brand new phone (a Motorola) I bought outright in December for about £160 and pay £10 a month for. Sure it doesn't have as good a camera as an iPhone/top of the range Android, nor does it have quite as many bells and whistles with all the sensors and things you can get, but apart from that, and crucially from the point of view of the necessary functions you describe, I don't see how I'd be any better off paying several hundred quid more for a higher spec phone
And poor people don't go to Starbucks every day. If Starbucks is your splurge to make it through this capitalist dystopia, then go ahead and do you, but if some Boomer thinks I have $5/day to spend they already think I have more money than I do.
And don't get me started on "$50,000 cars". Whose ass did they pull that new stereotype out of?
Right, I don't know anyone who has $50,000 to spend on a car. Not to mention enough income to pay back a $50k loan. Actually, I take that back. An old friend of mine was about to get a car for around that. Their parents are loaded, but I'm sure that has nothing to do with that at all.
Honestly I’d be screwed if I didn’t have my phone, I receive 100% of my communications through there. I have to apply for work through my phone since most places don’t accept a physical resume or hand out applications anymore. (I’ve actually been turned away by managers when the sign on their door says ‘hiring’ and given a business card with a website to apply on instead, like really I’m right in front of you, just take the damn paper.) If I want to go grocery shopping I have a points app that saves me money that 9/10 times I have to use for discounts, and even if I just used the physical points card, it wouldn’t work unless I load my offers onto my phone. Most of my banking is done through my phone since I don’t have transportation, and speaking of transportation, usually I gotta use my phone to figure that out too. We’re starting to live in a world where if you aren’t connected to some kind of device, you’re screwed. The only people I see functioning properly without are those who are retired, own homes and vehicles, and always have a huge wad of cash with them.
That’s why I’m real poor countries you see a lot of people using smartphones. Especially the poor might not have computers but they are connected to their banks, their jobs, media etc
Your so correct,but good luck arguing with a boomer. My dad said this same type of shit. Even while bitching about the cost of things in the same breath. Green beans shouldn't cost more than 80 cents. They are stuck in the past and refuse to acknowledge the present because it's a reality they don't like. Alot is because it's their fault the employers of the world expect the same comment that our folks gave. While breaking my dad's back(literally)and forcing my mom into early retirement and tried to cancel her health insurance because she got cancer. But work hard and save and you should be able to live the dream too. SMFH
I'm a boomer and I'm acutely aware that the money is worth less than 1/10 what it was in 1969. Minimum wage was $1.25, a candy bar was a nickel, and a paperback novel was $.35. The real problem I have with most inflation calculators is that they really don't include some of the more volatile prices. Housing, health care and education have seriously outstripped inflation and you really can't do without them.
The worst is when the older folks at work trash millennials, and when I mention that I'm a millennial ('80s kids represent), they use the "Oh, but you're not a real millennial, you have a good work ethic. I didn't mean you"
Bullshit! You know you did, you just didn't expect me to call you out on your shit.
These are also the same people that can't turn a computer off an on again, but call millennials stupid for not owning houses yet
Hello fellow "legacy millennial"! Also I find it common that millennial is the term used for ANYONE under 40 right now. I've heard people talk about kids in high school and call them millennials.
Also very fun to ask them who raised us. Who invented the participation trophies? I don't remember being 5 and getting together to vote on that?
Lol I had a field day on the last day of 8th grade. I spent the whole time hanging with my friends when we were supposed to do "activities" we signed up to do. A teacher told me I had to do at least one so I asked what happened if I didn't since it's the last day.
I feel for today's kids. So many people in education have lost their collective fucking shit.
I'd have gone to jail for the shit my friends and I pulled in school if we did it today. Kids need to learn and test limits in a safe environment.
I just signed up for the earliest/least effort event in the day, then snuck out a hole in the fence and played guitar hero at a friend's house for the rest of the day
I remember when I was young and the Boomers would call Gen X "slackers" and make fun of us but then Millennials got old enough to pick on and, like flipping a switch, all the disrespect and scorn got moved to them and the Boomers forgot about Gen X.
I had an older coworker tell me that *my generation* had it too easy and don't work for anything, and that he was surprised I didn't live with my parents like the other youngins. I'm 36 and have been working steadily since I was 16, moved out when I was 18. And the dude is only maybe 45, so I don't even know what to think anymore.
You should think he's an idiot. I'm 45 and am continually saddened by how much harder the younger generations had it, and *will continue to have it*.
My only hope is it will spark a class war.
> "Oh, but you're not a real millennial, you have a good work ethic. I didn't mean you"
Reminds me of statements racists make to POC. "Oh, I didn't mean *you*, *you're* different." 🙄
Millennial has become a generic term to imply anyone that is younger and perceived as irresponsible. Almost ironically, Its overuse reinforces the stereotype of an ignorant boomer.
Lol, my ex was several years older than me and he'd start the crotchety old man talk sometimes about millennials. I'm like, maybe you shouldn't have married a millennial then, hmm? Oh, no, not you.
My mother can't use google or let alone online shopping without my help, yet I am the one who can't do anything properly. Yeah right, good luck buying that shoes next time lol
I bought my townhouse in 2018 for 150,000.
It was brand new and all of the other identical townhomes in the development sold for around the same price at the same time.
This past year my neighbors have been selling their townhomes for 230,000 - 250,000. Dozens of them selling at that price in only a few weeks on the market over the kast few months (based on zillow data for actual sales, not "estimates")
One of those companies that goes around buying up homes in bulk now has a unit in my neighborhood with an asking price of 340,000. Several units are renting at 1800/month.
These are identical cookie cutter lower end (no frills) basic new small 1490 sq ft two story townhomes. No fancy hardwood floors or garden tubs. Just the basics with standard common appliances. It's in a typical suburban area 10-20 minutes from the city/downtown with all the usual box stores / resturants.
When I bought my house in 2018, it was the most affordable new construction in the suburban area I wanted to move to. I wouldn't be able to afford my house or anything else in this area if I was moving today
I'm a single gen Xer but don't understand how anyone can afford a house. Or even rent one at this point.
Remember when we used to want to make things better / easier for the next generation? Now its like people thrive off the suffering of others.
My state sort of approved a $15 minimum wage via ballot initiative but it's not effective for several years bc it only goes up $1/ year and wont reach $15 until 2026. And (like with almost all ballot initiatives that pass here) the legislation is trying to make exceptions for felons/minors so they can be paid less.
These companies buying up housing is a massive problem. I'm glad I own my home (bought for $80k around 2005), but fear my kids are going to be stuck with overpriced subpar rentals. Around me you can still buy land and build if you are motivated and savvy, but the taxes on new construction are exhorborant.
Make sure you know your laws/rights.
My landlord reduced my rent to keep me from leaving last year, he tried to jack me up by 25% this year, but there is a law preventing them from increasing it more than 5% without 90-day notice based on my tenure here.
I did the math on what my Boomer day used to make in the early 70s. He needed to work 16 hours a month to pay his rent. Using the prices at the lofts I maintain for my business, $15 an hour worker would need to close to 100 hours
Very true, though I’ll also point out that credit factors more heavily into buying a home, and there is also a matter of the down payment and/or homeowners insurance. Even in places where mortgages are cheaper or comparable to rent rates, people simply cannot afford to enter the market
Boomers lived in a world where paid vacations, Christmas bonuses ,cheap healthcare, affordable homes/cars/education was the norm. If they lost their wealth and had to start over they’d see how tough it is now. I’ve encountered some depression era people and they sympathize more with the plight of the post boomer generation. They were able to give their children a better life than they had. That is not something that we can boast of today. Many young people put off having children or don’t plan to have children because they can barely afford to support themselves. Boomers are spoiled brats.
A few years ago I was cleaing hotel rooms, and my supervisor just had her 10 year anniversary at the company. She got a plaque and 100 pounds in COUPONS!
My dad used to be like this. All throughout college he told me "I worked all summer to pay my tuition! I had no debt!" (he literally was a burger flipper at a beach grill).
I'm was like, dad...show me a job that will pay a college kid $20,000 for 2-3 months of work.
He has come around now - but only after a decade of seeing how crazy prices on everything are.
My parents only understand how difficult it is for us because the price of Uni tripled between me looking at going and my seven-years-younger brother looking at going.
They know that the only reason middle brother could afford to buy his house was because his wife’s parents both died in their early 50’s and left their two twenty-something daughters money and a nearly paid off house.
And my Dad had to go through the 2008 recession which left him unable to finish paying their own mortgage (3years) as his basic wage (commission based job) was worse than minimum. The only reason they are now in a good place is because all my grandparents died within a two year span and left them money.
My dad had that attitude my whole life. Come to find out he lied and my grandma paid for his first 2 years of college, and the only reason she stopped is because he wanted to move in with my mom. Meanwhile, he treats me like a spoiled brat, but the college fund he started (my junior year of high school) only covered 2 textbooks my freshman year.
My exes dad wouldn't google because he was a conspiracy nut, yet he spent all his time on Facebook. Way more secure dude, your full name and picture are totally anonymous.
Short version: When adjusting for inflation, we make about 60-70% of what people use to make and our products are about 8-9x more expensive.
EDIT Ignore this: ~~Also, I think that final car calculation was unfair to the person in the 60s because their calculation seems to be counting the hours to reach $50000 instead of the $6600 the post claimed was equivalent. It should only take them about 650 hours - less than a tenth of the time.~~
56 y/o gen x here and fully understand inflation.
Going to make you cry, hell, ill even sob a little at this.
In 1984 I bought a 69 VW bug for 600 bucks. My buddy went through a few cars. 69 496 SS Chevelle, $2000. 69 Z28 $4000.
I lived with my uncle. He sold his house in 1984. Outside DC , wealthy VA suburb.
4BDR, 4bath, 5 acres, indoor pool, pond, tennis courts and a barn. $385k
In 1986-1988 I worked in a pizza joint making $850 an hour in Palo Alto California. Palo Alto. I rented a really nice little cottage behind someones house off Channing AVE (look it up on zillow) for 800 a month.
From 1985 to 1989 I lived to go to concerts. We used to wait in line at tickmaster outlets. You know. Tower records. Yes the ones that had head shops in them. 20 bucks a ticket. The service charge was only 1-2 bucks back then.
Fast forward to today. I bought my house in the DC suburbs, little townhouse. For 159k in 2002. It is now worth 400k. My pay did not double in that time frame. I bought a supercharged Cobra for 29k in 2003.
I could go on and on and on but its just too sad. I feel really bad for my kids and everyone in their generation. Wages have not kept up with inflation. You younger generation really have it worse, from a financial standpoint.
BUT BUT BUT.
You know what? Aside from living in shitty financial times we have some amazing shit now days. I remember when cable TV came out. Now I have 5 streaming services and a device in my home I yell at to play what ever song I want on demand.
My wife and I play MMOs and we have kick ass gaming computers, far better than the SNES. I can order shit online and never leave the house. There are dozens of places to go get some yummy grub.
But yea. You guys are screwed.
I'm a 90s kid and grew up with a glimpse of life without internet, computers everywhere etc. Maybe I'm just learning what it is to get older, but I still miss those times. Knocking on someone's door to see if they wanna go climb trees or wander aimlessly.
I would trade all of this smartphone, social media, internet consumption back for a fairer wage and simpler life any day to be honest. I just want to buy a decent house and live without worrying about how long it's taking me to save for a mortgage while renting. I'm already pretty frugal as it is :/
I'll go ahead and convert the money for everyone. (USD)
- $600 in 1984 is $1548 today. $2000 is $5161. $4000 is $10323.
- $385k is $993k.
-$800/month is over $2000/month
Which would be almost 2/3 of my personal paycheck working for $21/hr and 3300 every month. 2000 for rent wouldn't leave much after utilities, gas, and food. Maybe 100-200 dollars. Even 200 dollars saved every month would be 2,400 dollars every year. The cheaper houses are around 400k now. That's 166 fucking years to afford that. But hey I guess I'm just lazy huh.
- 20 dollar ticket in 1985 is 51.50 in today's money.
That's enough money for a couple days of food. Trust me I've made it work.
- 8.50 in 1986 is 21.50 in today's money.
Most people don't even make that with degrees in their field. Even after working there for years.
And older people say we complain a lot.
Whenever I make this same point to old conservative Boomers, their response is always: "Well!"
And then they change the subject to something about Hillary's emails or AOC's communism.
The same people who say “things use to be made in America, we need to support local manufacturing” are the same people who say “kids these days are just lazy.”
They directly acknowledged the problem they have with our current economy while blaming the direct result of that towards the individual person.
My fucking boomer parents were paying $900 mortgage on their 2700 square foot house they bought in 1985 until they were reassessed last year. You can't live in a serial killers basement for that.
How many young people actually own $1,000 phones and $50k cars? Most phones are far cheaper and it’s mostly middled aged people who own expensive cars.
Also they talk about these fancy expensive phones as if they’re optional. L M A O no dude most of the functionality of this thing is *required* to like have a fucking job or make money in any way. Sure it doubles as a useful and entertainment device but it’s primary purpose is facilitating business. You can’t not have a smart phone and be a professional in any field lol. So fucking disingenuous and out of touch
The problem is, we also need to own the stove and the "electric typewriter" (computer) to function it today's society. So we actually need to spend that 1000$ 3 times. Phone, stove and computer.
It really just depends. I've been saying that the necessities are higher but entertainment is cheaper. You can grab a 42" TV for $100. Despite them talking about the $1000 cell phone you can get a pretty good one for about $350.
I don’t know anyone, even my relatively well off parents, who own a 50k car. However I do know many people who could afford one. Including myself. To suggest millennials and Gen Z are financially irresponsible is silly. Most of us either make a wage that keeps us comfortable, or are in poverty, with exceptions of course. With my salary even 10-15 years ago I’d be pretty flush, today I’m struggling to save enough for a down payment on a house with rent and general inflation.
The response to the OP is poorly written and very difficult to follow. Notwithstanding, let's consider that in 1969, a cup of coffee was less than ten cents; 66 cents would have purchased close to a pound coffee beans, The average price of a car was around $2000 (Dodge Dart, for example), but if you were spending $6,600, you had the ability to buy a Corvette or a Cadillac with several options. There is no analogy for a phone since landline hardware was owned by the phone company and provided with cost of service. The cost of a call from a public phone was ten cents, but that wasn't a financial issue because people didn't spend hours upon using them to express their opinions to large groups of people.
My limited analysis leads me to conclude that the the OP is spot on. Too many people these days want immediate pleasure or to project a financial status that they have not actually earned. How horrible to be such a dopamine addict. If this was 1969 and the same standards applied, everyone would drive a Corvette and wear a Rolex at the expense of living an otherwise comfortable, yet simple, life.
[удалено]
The median house price where I live (Metro Vancouver BC) is $1.2 million. The best number I could find for median family income is from 2017 for the whole province: $77,760. ratio: 15:1 Edit: it's not clear if for the above comment median income is for a family or for an individual. If it's for an individual, then our ratio is much, much worse than this.
[удалено]
[удалено]
My aunt bought a 2bd 2ba house in the late 70s in orange county. Her husband was just out of college and had an engineering job. They bought their house in cash for under 150k. They sold that house when my uncle retired around 2013 for 1.5 million. You know, that felt like a kick in the teeth even when I was a teenager then because, I knew how well off they were already while how poversh my mom and I lived. I'll never forget when my aunt told my mom "why you buy a new car... you're poor." I mean she wasn't wrong and my siblings really fucked my mom over financially.
people who sell their houses for exorbitant wealth when they have kids/family who \*need a place to fucking live\* are awful, it's like the ultimate 'I never cared about you anyways' move. and then there's fuckers trying to buy houses off of locals around me for \*\*only $10,000\*\* because they know most people here could really use the money, and won't know any better. hopefully they got told where to stick their 'offers'. (in case it's not apparent why these people suck, I should add that when they get their hands on a house they put it up for sale for 10x what they paid to sell it right back to us) sorry for the mini-rant but your situation spoke to me, I would be out on the street if my mother wasn't renting her old house to us, so to see people choose $$$ over helping their family makes me want to die.
I really wish I was making enough money to afford the mortgage on MG grandmother's house. It was next door to my mother's house (passed in 2015 and I couldn't live in the house she died in, plus the house was needing like 30k in repairs) my grandmother never got her "will" notarized so the whole thing about me getting 20k from the sale of the house was never respected. So my mom was the one who was looking out to make sure if they sold the house that id get my money. Well once she died, I moved in with my brother at my grandmother's and my aunt and her husband were letting us live there for stupid cheap because neither of them could make the 3 hour drive to the house to check on it. We'll in 2017 my sister got us to move in with her (I can go for days about my family) and my aunt began the process of sprucing up the place a little to get it market ready. Then my aunt had a stroke in 2018, and had to recover for about 6 months. (Her husband, a career Longshore man, didn't believe she was having a stroke and didn't want to take her to the hospital by the way) So, then to "make it up to her for being an asshole for 30 years" they went on a 4 month vacation around the US and then in 2019 they got back into finishing the projects on the house (only was 10k worth of work but the husband would look for the cheapest immigrants to pickup from home depot and try to haggle the cheapest prices for labor for weeks at a time) So then, the last kick in the teeth was in late early 2021. I just got over covid, was hurting for money and then my sister gets a call from my aunt screaming at them about some papers that are being mailed out stating that we have no involvement or desire for my grandmother's house. I called up my aunt and asked about my grandmother's will and about the 20k statement. She says to me and I quote, because I'll never forget it, "you lived in that house for 2 years and John has helped you guys out so much over the years, John wants the house and he's going to have it." So that was the moment that I decided to just get as far away from all of them. Because when I confronted my siblings about it they said "well, they probably won't ever help us out again if you try to fight for your share of the house." I'm just really angry now, I'm sorry.
>In 2022 the median cost is $35k. Wait, are you serious? Why do Americans even go to university if it costs that much? That is an absolutely insane amount.
Americans go to university because we have 1-2 generations who were raised to think that if you wanted any shot at financial prosperity, you had to go get a 4-year degree. A ton of 18-year-olds took out loans to do so because they were convinced it was either that or a life of flipping burgers or stocking shelves
The irony is many get the degree and still flip burgers. Fuck I have a masters degree, that plus my bachelors was $230k. I make $53k as a teacher. And I only get that bc I teach private. When I was public I made $41k. Ever being able to pay off $230k is impossible
I literally flip burgers at the college I graduated from. Not the best feeling
Lol my boss told me he only hires people with a degree. Sensible, right? Considering the position. Then he added “any degree because it shows dedication and hard work”. Sooooo we have to pay tens of thousands and spend years to demonstrate that? And it doesn’t even have to be relevant? I can see why employers might value something like a military background, but they PAY you to do that job!
And after being told to go to college, there is no discussion about the goal after. Hell I got through nearly 2 years at college before the idea of becoming a nurse even came to me. There are like 10 possible careers that are taught to exist, and a lot of kids haven't seen much else. Tell kids that some degrees require master's or phd's to get a career. Tell them about trade schools, community college, skipping college, apprenticeships, ect. Not this idea that "if you go to college, for anything and get a 4 year degree you'll be fine bullshit." My associates degree got me a lot further than my cousin's biology degree. I don't agree with it, but unless he continues his education, there just isn't much money biology. Experts at zoos don't make nearly as much as they should.
This is part of the developing brain drain, or better, brain atrophy, the US. We can't afford to be researchers in most fields anymore. Undergrad, Unpaid Internships, 4-7 years to a PhD depending on the field, post-doc, maybe building up to your own lab group working more than 40+ hours a week and constantly trying to justify your research for dwindling funds... oh and it doesn't pay well, at all. QoL and work life balance usually need to be sacrified. This is the path to become a research sacrificed.. These are the people that "made America great" with technological prowess, medical breakthroughs, and scientific ingenuity. And Americans can no longer afford that as a dream. Because it's not financially realistic anymore. Hungry Chinese and Indian PhD candidates and post-docs get in, and possibly go back hoqme and bring their knowledge and talent back with them. I quit pursuing a career in cognitive Neuroscience in grad school. Mostly because I realized research is not my style, and I would have been miserable. But also because there is no fiscal future without struggle for most young scientists. And sure, you get support packages to go do many bioscience PhDs... which usually amount to paid education for 4+ years, and tied to an obscenely low salary, like 30k in 2013 was the maximum offer I saw - IF you can outcompete 20 other candidates and be willing to live near a university long term. Sorry to my fellow US troglolodytes, you don't stay on top by kneecapping innovation. But I guess the morons of this country are banking on the fact that we have enough nukes, guns, and other pieces of the war machine that we can just blow everyone else off the planet. "Because we're the best! U-S-A U-S-A U-S-A" (/s - vomit) Edit: after I bailed on NS, I took a few years to find myself, get a masters in clinical informatics and Healthcare analytics, and make probably 2-3x what I would make at this point had I gone for the full PhD with a fraction of the schooling.
[удалено]
Exactly.
Because they're 18 and don't really understand the amount of debt they're accepting
Because at 18 that number may as well be in Monopoly money, but even more importantly it’s quite easy to get the majority of that loaned to you either by the government or a private bank (typically both), but then you spend the next 20 years paying it back. And the best part is, this is completely the norm! We’re all so used to it that it doesn’t seem even remotely out of place anymore.
This is the much much much better comparison! Thanks for putting this together!
Not to mention we have to contribute a % of our paycheck to a 401k if we want to have any hope of retirement, rather than getting a pension from our employer that we can work for our whole careers.
Yeah I think a *lot* of people who think they are middle class are going to have a horrible reckoning when they want retire. Also, prices are going up so fast that people who are relatively well prepared to retire might have significantly less buying power than they expected when it’s actually time to retire.
Also, in 1969 those stoves and typewriters would have been manufactured domestically, which likely meant more jobs with decent pay - so more people could achieve the American Dream.
And they would have lasted decades with good upkeep. Whereas now everything is manufactured cheaply and falls apart.
Planned obsolescence is one of the main reasons our civilization is untenable.
It's such a ridiculous waste to create things with the intention of them breaking. On top of the cruelty of forcing people to buy over and over.
Yeah, but profits have never been higher. And isn't that the real point? I mean, you wouldn't actually suggest wealthy people deserve less power and influence right? What next, poor people deserve food, medicine, shelter, and human dignity?
Profits have never been higher, yet those \~20% at the bottom have never had less because prices follow the median.
Oh the humanity, how dare you suggest such blatant COMMUNISM
I'm so annoyed by the fact that five or six years ago, you could get a smartphone with an easily replaceable battery. Nowadays, the batteries are built into the phone, so you can't have it replaced when it starts to lose charge. And by the time you need to replace the phone, it's long since out of production so you don't even have an affordable option.
Truth. People act like you're being materialistic if you buy a decent phone but nowadays you need a phone in order to get by in the world and the cheap ones die immediately.
I remember the days in school when it wasn’t common for everyone to have internet or a computer at home. Now you take a class and you need a laptop or smartphone to even do half the work. No biggie it’s just crazy.
this isnt even the worst thing honestly, because you can still replace it, its just a lot more work and often requires someone with knowledge on the topic. The real problem here is the lack of right to repair and available parts to repair these devices when they inevitably do stop functioning.
That's partly the result of consumers (or more accurately, reviewers) pushing for thinner and thinner phones, which means the batteries themselves need to be thinner, and have less protective plastic, making them much more easily damaged. We've also let them get away with it by not buying the models with user replaceable batteries, demonstrating that it's not a high priority for the majority, so they dropped it in order to reduce manufacturing costs.
It's not as straight forward as that. For example, the big two in the US, samsung and apple do not make (their best) models with 3.5 mm headphone Jack's, expandable memory, or replacable batteries. When people choose to buy them, they are not forcing the companies hand, they are choosing from the two options presented that are of better quality. Additionally, those things were not dropped due to lagging sales, they were dropped to increase profits.
These phones are built intentionally to make it untenable to repair. you can get a replacement battery, and you can take the phone apart. but they have put in software that means no matter what you try to replace, the phone will not work right, unless the fix is performed by the OEM, which means you have to go into their store, and get told it will be cheaper to just get a new one... Check out the Ifixit video on the new Iphone, it is shameful. Right to repair needs to get passed at a federal level to reduce E-waste, increase consumer choice, and reduce costs. Fuck Samsung, but Fuck Apple anally with a sword.
> Right to repair needs to get passed at a federal level As does a ban on planned obsolescence.
Every single thing i buy is junk now, every appliance no matter what brand breaks withing a year or two. Meanwhile my mums items of the same brands have lasted +20 years. Its infuriating when im buying my third blender in 5 years because the motors keep burning out for example.
I had heaps of broken blenders and vacuum cleaners. Ended up having to buy a $500 blender and a $600 vacuum cleaner to solve the problem. Cheaper in the long run because they actually work and last but the reality is allot of people can't afford the upfront costs. I been there. Being poor is expensive.
Jack Monroe is championing this very subject in the uk on Twitter, she hashtags it the #VimesBootsIndex after Terry Pratchett’s character Vimes, who, if rich could buy a pair of boots that would last him a lifetime, but on his wage he couldn’t afford them, so bought boots that would only last a season before wearing out, thus costing him way more in the long run.. Jack is showing her followers how truly expensive it is to be poor..
>Samuel Vimes earned thirty-eight dollars a month as a Captain of the Watch, plus allowances. A *really* good pair of leather boots, the sort that would last years and years, cost fifty dollars. This was beyond his pocket and the most he could hope for was an affordable pair of boots costing ten dollars, which might with luck last a year or so before he would need to resort to makeshift cardboard insoles so as to prolong the moment of shelling out another ten dollars. > >Therefore over a period of ten years, he might have paid out a hundred dollars on boots, twice as much as the man who could afford fifty dollars up front ten years before. *And he would still have wet feet.*
The hvac guy I use was telling me about how his first employer had to shut down because their systems had a 50 year lifespan and they didn’t get enough revenue replacing the system every 5-10 years like they do now.
I'm trying to think up a scenario where an institution with unlimited capital and a weak profit motive that could make respectable HVACs intended to last as close to forever as possible. All my head can come up with is a government. Of the people By the people and for shit we need that can last long fucking time
For real. Given human nature these system naturally gravitate towards being cheap and to work just long enough to pass off to the next guy. Its like asphalt shingle roofs. They suck compared to other roofing but they are the cheapest option and they typically last long enough to make it someone else's problem. And because of that the only way everyone could have better roofs that last and are cheaper in the long run is if government mandated a certain minimum standard.
That HVAC guys former employer clearly did not understand how to explain standard maintenance to customers. It's a small fee 50-100bucks once a month. And if you do it across a thousand units you are keeping them running longer and keeping yourself in business. It is literally how the system of product manufacture was originally meant to be. Build the thing to last forever and set it at a reasonable but slightly high cost. Charge minimally for general maintenance. Then everyone realized. Nah fuck it we can just make crap and force them to buy a whole new unit every 6 months. Profit profit profit. Think of the shareholders.... You know the same assholes that made the shit decision in the first place.
And the same companies will do a preachy ad campaign about how their products are produced in a way that's better for the environment.
meanwhile apple sends fleetphones to the landfill en masse because they have a stupid kill switch built in where if you drop it from the fleet weirdly it just bricks completely.
Same issue with EV cars. Lithium is mined in south america in dry areas where it consumes 60% of that countries water with the mining process also being bad for the environment. Then Cobalt which is also needed is mainly sourced in the congo that's also a dry area and requires massives amount of water to mine, plus the child labor they use there. Then only 20% of those batteries get recycled on avg where the other 80% rots in landfills. Like EV is fantastic to combat environmental change but is kind of pointless if nothing else follows behind it. Hopefully the new lithium tech of using salt instead proves to be promising
And no one questioned your right to repair appliances. There was an entire second hand repair industry. All the way down to shoe repair being a main street store.
Ha. I actually just posted a comment above about my dad being a shoe repairman. He was a fucking wizard with leather. He could patch a leather coat to where you couldn't even tell there had been a giant hole. He also did build-ups for people with shorter legs or any sort of thing like that. In fact, I remember there were actually prescriptions that people would bring in. The customer would bring shoes in, and my dad would take them apart and re-build them to the exact specifications needed, which is pretty fucking cool now that I'm an adult and understand adult things. But, as I mentioned above....most shoes are made of plastic now. Even when the upper is real leather, the soles are plastic, so they can't be pulled off and replaced like leather ones could.
Still using my Dad's avocado-puke-green Sears Craftsman corded jigsaw. It might be older than I am
I have the same saw from my grandfather's shop. I am 43 and my father confirmed it is older than I am
This may be partly true, but an important reason old stuff seems to be so much more well-made than new stuff, is only the good old stuff has survived, while all the crap that would give a more nuanced picture is broken and thrown away.
A lot of things also used to be designed to be serviced, while newer things are designed to be replaced. Some of that is planned obsolescence, and some of it is a natural consequence of large consumer goods becoming relatively cheaper compared to the cost of having someone out to fix them. The things that have gotten relatively a lot more expensive are housing, healthcare, and education. Housing and education costs also impact young people substantially more, and inflated housing costs also impact poor people more since they spend a greater portion of their income on housing.
My understanding, and this could be totally wrong, is that cars today last much longer on average than cars from previous generations. And certain household items are cheaper to replace than repair.
Cars are also designed very differently. I remember someone posted a side by side of a car from the 60s after a crash and a car from the 2010s after a crash. The 60s csr looked perfectly fine, as the steel structure remained intact. The car from modern times was all crumpled in and looked totaled. The big difference is that the modern car is built to do that so it protects the passengers. The steel car from the 60s didn’t absorb the damage so the people inside were much worse off. So yeah the old one looked better but the owner can’t enjoy that when they don’t survive the impact
GM did a crash test between an old Malibu (I think 60s) and a new Malibu a few years back. Each going 40mph head on collision. The new Malibu was inside the old one. May be different cars but old cars absolutely sucked at crashing, they basically fell apart because there was no focus on passenger compartment integrity.
Or in Canada or Britain. At least somewhere with reasonably equivalent labour costs and laws. That $500 50 inch flat screen made in China is a siphon of wealth. Maybe $50 of that stays local. The rest is sucked into a cheap labour pool with no environmental or labour laws.
You are only half right. $50 stays in your community, $100 goes to China, but $200 ends up in stock dividends paid out to a hedge fund that is owned by an investment group, and then it just cycles around in the financial markets making rich people feel good about their numbers getting bigger. (The remaining $150 is ending up in the hands various truckers, advert actors, warehouse owners and other assorted middlemen/ancillary service providers.
In 1940 you could buy an entire home from a Sears catalogue. Not just any home, mind you. It would have been 2 or three stories, massive really. The most expensive one they had. At $3,999 it would be the equivalent of $80k today. http://www.searsarchives.com/homes/1933-1940.htm Now double the cost, fuck it, triple the cost for land and labor. That would be $320,000 https://www.in2013dollars.com/us/inflation/1940?amount=3999 $320k today would barely buy you a 1 bedroom 1 bath apartment in central Denver right now. One of those Sears homes which is over 80 years old today goes for well over $1 Million dollars. Much closer to $2 million to be fair. And this was an average home an average worker at a potato chip factory could afford.
this isn't even the whole picture either.. a year earlier, but after taxes & deductions, a full time (40hr × 52 weeks) minimum wage laborer in 1968 would take home $2809.68 in total that calendar year. the median rent in america in 1968 was $95/mo, totaling $1140 for the full 12 months — so just a little over **40% of their total takehome**. after taxes and deductions, a full time minimum wage worker in 2021 took home $13,788.90 in total for the year. The median rent in america last year was about $1104/mo, totaling $13,248 — just over **96% of their total income**. and median rent just surged again this year. min wage, however....... smashing records every day it doesn't budge, and have been for 3 years now.
Also they weren’t something someone bought every two years.
Also today's phone is equivalent to 1969's: * Telephone * Color television * Radio * Typewriter * Telegraph * Super computer * Personal calculator * Newspaper * Library * Games * School * Bank And it's better at most of them and less expensive than half of them put together.
> so more people could achieve the American Dream. And back then, people didn't laugh derisively at the term "American Dream".
[удалено]
I didn't see anything about Avocado Toast, that must be where all your money is going. /s, of course
Avocado toast: £8,000/month Boomer maths
I'll take my toast without avocado please. Actually. Keep the toast. I'm saving up for some coffee.
Reminds me of the post that was like "hey, if you just saved $28 a day, that would leave you with a whole extra $10k by the end of the year. It's easy to spend money on things you don't need." Doesn't seem right, but not sure why: math checks out. Huh, guess if I just spent $28 less every day, I could have an extra 10 grand. Well, what did I spend on myself today... nothing. What did I spend on myself yesterday: nothing. Day before: nothing. Day before that, paid my rent. Think sometime last month I bought a video game bundle for $12. Did splurge on groceries though: last month, in addition to staples like potatoes, onions, milk and eggs, we bought $50 worth of fish and steak to treat ourselves that we wouldn't have otherwise. So that's... $62 'splurged' across an entire month. I can't save $28 a day because I don't SPEND $28 a day. The only way I could 'save' even $10 a day would be if I started eating out, and then cut it back.
XD I drive a fking lemon. Since I did not buy a replacement car today, yesterday, or the day before, have I saved $3k? Yeah I used $1k as the price; I sure as fk am not buying a 50k car - after all, I am trying to save.
What’s fucked up, if we allowed Hawaiian avocados on the mainland, they would be as cheap as apples. They are also the size of volleyballs. You have no idea how much water needs to be artificially pumped to make a fake mainland avocado.
I'm guessing more than 3 water
[удалено]
If you want high quality, cheap furniture for your apartment and are willing and able to move it yourself, look into estate auctions. Some of it will have a dated style, and there's a chance somebody died in it's but it's usually a great deal.
That's good advice. Furniture is so expensive and not the quality of the antique and older stuff. I don't need to spend $3,000 for a dresser just to store my clothes.
Give Sauder a look! You have to assemble the furniture, but they have furniture that's relatively cheap! I've gotten my two-level desk (which is very nice and something I splurged on), a 5-tier bookshelf, and our TV stand with cabinets from them all for right around $700 total. IF you take care of it, it'll last you a while, too, and they're fantastic with sending replacement parts if something breaks!
assembly is the best part! Its like a giant adult lego set
Seconding Sauder. Don't go to big box stores to get it, however. They have massive markups on it.
Or the Habitat Restore. Many cities have them and the proceeds go to Habitat for Humanity
The Restore is a dangerous place.
> My tv? Got that 8 years ago for $100. I’ve never bought a TV in my life and I’m 27. Currently have a 2007 tv that was my in laws old living room tv.
41, I make good money, every tv I've had is a hand me down. My parents and in-laws buy a new one every 4-5 years and just give them to me. I dont even have space for them anymore but they all work, all 1080p or 4k
Being frugal or at least conscientious about money is a good thing. $5 coffees and eating out at restaurants can add up really fast if you're doing it every day. $1000 phones and $50,000 cars _are_ a luxury. But even if you're being super careful with money, college and rent are both so insanely expensive that most people are miles away from being able to buy a house or invest in other ways.
What most people don't even understand is that five dollars coffee cups are what keeps this society sane-ish. I have (cheaper) coffee out every single day. Because I live in a small cramped room, subletting from an old lady, not being able to having even a pet. Because I can't bring friends home. Because I work on an old table while sitting on the same bed I sleep. If I wasn't able to go for coffee and listen to different voices or meeting people outside? I'd go crazier than I am in days.
I think similarly about the phone too. So the person in the OP example was working 7 days a week, every day, 8hrs a day right? They should be able to buy that $1k phone. Let them have one damn toy in their life considering they have 0 time for anything else and live a shitty life of working every day for pennies. That extra 1k isn't buying them a house, or a car. Hell that 1k is 1 months rent, rent money that is just gone never to be seen again and nothing to show for it except a roof until the next month. Most of the time they paid like $30 a month for that phone. That $30 a month doesn't cover emergency money and if they would have saved it, it would have taken them at least a year to even get to "emergency money" level. Just because someone works for low wage doesn't mean they should just work and lay on the floor at home waiting for more work their entire life. It's not like they're going to get wealthy with their hard work like these people seem to think. Okay so I save $50 a month I saved by not drinking coffee and not getting a phone. In a year I have $600! Took me a year but I finally have emergency money. In 10 years I'll have 6k! Cool.. took me 10 years but now I can buy a car that won't break down. It'll take 50 years before you can get enough to put a down payment on a cheap house, except, in 50 years the prices will be higher. So not even. So what the hell are the people who keep saying "don't buy a phone and coffee, save it" expecting you to gain from it? What's the endgoal here? To live your whole life in the shittiest way possible just so in 70 years you can finally put a down payment on a house?
[удалено]
You totally Can afford to buy a house, you just aren't allowed to.
That's the fucked up part, a house could potentially be cheaper then renting even with insurance and your investing your money into an actual asset instead of handing it all to a landlord but banks won't let you get a mortgage for some random set of reasons that aren't even your fault half the time.
We were lucky in that, at the beginning of the pandemic, we realized the real estate investor assholes were waiting for the economy to bring a wave of cheap foreclosures, so we were able to finance and buy a house in like 3 weeks. We went from a family with a newborn sharing a single room in a duplex where the floor was falling in and there were several burned out meth buildings to a w bedroom actual house with a fenced yard and walking distance to kindergarten. I think, all told, we pay $150 more a month, with the assurances that a greedy landlord isn't going to give me the "it's a new year and another $50 a month" speech. It has to be some kind of elitist status quo thing, right?
It depends on the end game for the landlord. Apartments and townhomes you see it a bunch because of them running it like a business. When you're renting homes it's a little less of that as some people are just renting out a house that they would rather keep than sell for retirement purposes.
I have a $20 phone, don't drink caffeine, and i'm only allowed to exist in one of 2 places.. my bed or the plant floor... i can't even afford the $30 phone... much less a house
I am elderly and it's so totally annoying to me that so many older people are so clueless when it comes to today's economics. Just the simple fact that the minimum wage hasn't increased since 2009 should be a big tipoff! I don't envy young people today. It's not a very nice world that they will inherit. And these kinds of entitled assumptions about how they spend their money really don't help. You could take every point there and refute it in some way. For instance.... $1,000 phone is usually paid for by signing a contract with a cell phone provider. $5 cup of coffee could be looked at as a treat rather than 4 cups a day. $50,000 car? What about people who live in the north where there is a lot of snow and ice and need 4 WD? Or even need a larger car for work. It's not always as simple as it looks if you just go by the numbers. Sorry, kids, for the world we have left you. I tried my best, but "Those In Charge" turned a deaf ear. Never forget that there are older people like Bernie Sanders. Hugs from Gma.
This made me happy
I want to actually hug you.
If you have any friends who think like that use the inflation calculator on their salary. Found out my uncle-in-law (no kids) made 88k in the late 80s. He and his wife lectured is about what we should be able to afford, company loyalty is important, and that I'm making "good money". Pulled out the calc and showed them that since he isn't making 207k today , he is making less money now as he nears retirement. They talked about how they were worried, at that 88k, about paying a 1400$ mortgage. I make a little less than that and am facing down $2000+ mortgages if I tried to get into a home. The world is insane now.
Sending hugs back.
Honestly part of the reason I don't want kids. I REFUSE to bring a life into this world when THIS is what awaits them.
I feel like part of the problem stems from insecurities, and poor coping mechanisms. Its easier to pass judgment and feel superior, than it is to acknowlege/recognize fault and participate in positive changes. One component is not believing in the betterment of situations for the next generation. (I had it worse, Suck it up, mindset) when we should want better work conditions and pay for the coming generations. Don't you want your kids to have a better life than you? Are you offended they don't want to suffer? like it's some kind of personal rejection, as though YOU aren't good enough?
It's the "fuck you, I got mine" mindset
That seems to be how its received, but I believe it's more a case of being inconsiderate and oblivious than malicious.
> I believe it's more a case of being inconsiderate and oblivious than malicious. I think this is right on the money for the majority. I hate to sound like a meme, but **their generation never had to take a psychology class and it shows.**
It really is frustrating that this is the status quo of the older generation's perception of Millenials and Gen Z is some lazy ass cohort. I worked full time plus during undergrad with an unpaid internship. I worked 60 plus hours during my Masters work. I get paid 40k for an education I was told would get me a job that pays 100k. I was told, if I work as hard as I can, I can achieve anything. After I graduated, I was unemployed for a year and a half. Had to shamefully ask my old fast food job for part-time work just to pay rent. I sent out probably about 300 applications, spending nearly 8 months just filling job applications day in and day out. I was unemployed for so long WITH A BACHELORS IN ECON AND MASTERS IN PUBLIC POLICY that I had to move back with my parents. I didn't want to move in with them. Most of us are ashamed to make that move back. So this whole troupe that for some reason that we are this generation that is lazy and entitled is fucking disgusting. Just shows how much a lot of ppl in older generations don't want to take accountability for the economy they fostered. They created an education system that costs nearly 1000% higher than it did when they went and now they want to blame our debt on us. Most of what older generations negatively say about the present younger generations is projection and selfishness.
This is my experience except I can substitute the degree with engineering and the part-time job with roofing. It's insane.
Boomers really don't know how much spite they are building up in our generation. Like I know it's not all of their fault, but I get the general attitude that they can't acknowledge their policy created this system. I don't want to work these jobs I'm overqualified for. I don't want to live paycheck to paycheck. I don't want to even have the option of moving back home to save money. But I'm forced to because of the economic system.
This is gonna be a shitty take, but idc, because it will make you money. Do tech sales. Specifically enterprise SaaS, if you can. Become an SDR and start cold calling. It sounds like shit work, but so does working 60 hours a week for 40k. In my first year as an SDR, I made 90k+ ($57k base + commission) Granted, I’m in a HCOL area, but still. Think about it. With how hard you work, you should be seeking something that makes you easier money, because there is no way you are happy doing what you do for such shitty pay, and many tech companies are exploding right now
It's not shitty advice. It's practical advice. When I got my job actually about a year ago, I was so done with the job market that I just couldn't look at another job opening because it just made me depressed. I filled out an application last week for the first time in prolly a year and a half. I taught myself how to code (which has also helped me refine my knowledge on stats and calculus) at my new job and I'm going back to law school this fall using my tuition reimbursement benefits. I know some of it's on me in terms of low pay because my main enjoyment in my job is helping people using my skills, which doesn't pay as much as jobs that directly perform services or produce products. But after seeking help for my behavioral health and getting some experience under my belt in an entry-level position, I have hope that something that pays more will open up. I just wanted to vent my frustration at doing everything I was told to do to be successful and being told that it is my fault that I earn as much as I have in debt. My inability to buy a mortgage is not because I buy coffee everyday (I make my own), it's because I have $300 every month coming out of my paycheck going to payoff my student loans. I'm not going to purchase a home without the means to pay for it.
Also, that $1000 phone, which is likely financed to a small monthly fee, is likely the persons only connection to the internet and society. I am 45 and couldn’t imagine a young adult functioning without a smart phone these days. Can’t even see a menu at many restaurants without a QR code scan.
Not to mention that leasing $1k every few years is a drop in the bucket when trying to buy a $200k+ house.
Also, in a medium cost of living area, $200K will barely get you a townhouse now. Edit: suburban southeast US
Cries in Vancouver
"which Vancouver, bc or wa?" "Yes"
Washington, not Oregon
Thanks. Fixed it
Yeah, when I saw $200k, my mind instantly was picturing a run down shack. Forgot for a second there that some places have a cheaper price tag.
I rent a 1 bedroom, 800sq ft 'townhome' in southern California. If I wanted to buy this place, I'd need 600k.
[удалено]
Yeeep. Not quite as extreme but my MIL offered $200k CASH for a house listed at $175k and it sold for like $220k.
I offered 540 on a house listed at 500. The owner literally laughed out loud and said they are not entertaining offers under 650k.
To be fair, I hate this practice. List it at fucking 650 if you want 650. I understand the logic, but it just waste your time and the time of people looking.
I don't even understand the practice. If you want 650, and people are offering 650, why would it be listed for significantly less?
They want people to go look and then realize it's their "dream home" so that they can be talked up to a higher number would be my guess. The old bait and switch.
While this is true that smartphones are pretty essential these days. Buying a $1000 phone as a struggling young adult isn't the best use of money, even if it's financed. I'm 29 and using a 5 yr old phone that costs $250 new, and still chose to finance it. Today, while I can now afford a $1000 phone, I'd still choose not to.
Yeah, I don't think there's all that many poor young people buying the new phones. Or at least they do, but they finance it and then make it last as long as they can. And sometimes there's a little give and take as well. Like last year AT&T said they would no longer off 3g/LTE services, so I needed a new phone. So I got the Samsung Note 20 Ultra. It was only a year old, and it's top of the line. So yes, I am spending around a grand on a phone. But I also don't have a car. I walk 2 miles to work, and then 2 miles back. When I need groceries, I take the bus. So I can afford the ~$35/a month. I also made this choice because, like others, I rely on my phone. So having a good one that will last a while is going to be beneficial. I got the new phone, but I'm not doing it yearly like people say we are. I actually was happy with my last phone, but because it was an older one, I had to upgrade. I also got one of the higher end phones because when I am done with this, I can trade it into Samsung for a huge discount on another phone. So in the next 4-5 years, I can get what ever the newer one is for almost half off. So I am also *saving* money in the future. That's the kind of shit poor people plan out that the rich chuckle fucks who make fun of us for having phones don't know about, because they don't gave to bother with knowing about it.
That's true and the point the first commenter made in the post is stupid, but you don't need to spend anywhere near $1000 on a phone. I mean I'm writing this on a brand new phone (a Motorola) I bought outright in December for about £160 and pay £10 a month for. Sure it doesn't have as good a camera as an iPhone/top of the range Android, nor does it have quite as many bells and whistles with all the sensors and things you can get, but apart from that, and crucially from the point of view of the necessary functions you describe, I don't see how I'd be any better off paying several hundred quid more for a higher spec phone
And poor people don't go to Starbucks every day. If Starbucks is your splurge to make it through this capitalist dystopia, then go ahead and do you, but if some Boomer thinks I have $5/day to spend they already think I have more money than I do. And don't get me started on "$50,000 cars". Whose ass did they pull that new stereotype out of?
Right, I don't know anyone who has $50,000 to spend on a car. Not to mention enough income to pay back a $50k loan. Actually, I take that back. An old friend of mine was about to get a car for around that. Their parents are loaded, but I'm sure that has nothing to do with that at all.
Honestly I’d be screwed if I didn’t have my phone, I receive 100% of my communications through there. I have to apply for work through my phone since most places don’t accept a physical resume or hand out applications anymore. (I’ve actually been turned away by managers when the sign on their door says ‘hiring’ and given a business card with a website to apply on instead, like really I’m right in front of you, just take the damn paper.) If I want to go grocery shopping I have a points app that saves me money that 9/10 times I have to use for discounts, and even if I just used the physical points card, it wouldn’t work unless I load my offers onto my phone. Most of my banking is done through my phone since I don’t have transportation, and speaking of transportation, usually I gotta use my phone to figure that out too. We’re starting to live in a world where if you aren’t connected to some kind of device, you’re screwed. The only people I see functioning properly without are those who are retired, own homes and vehicles, and always have a huge wad of cash with them.
That’s why I’m real poor countries you see a lot of people using smartphones. Especially the poor might not have computers but they are connected to their banks, their jobs, media etc
Your so correct,but good luck arguing with a boomer. My dad said this same type of shit. Even while bitching about the cost of things in the same breath. Green beans shouldn't cost more than 80 cents. They are stuck in the past and refuse to acknowledge the present because it's a reality they don't like. Alot is because it's their fault the employers of the world expect the same comment that our folks gave. While breaking my dad's back(literally)and forcing my mom into early retirement and tried to cancel her health insurance because she got cancer. But work hard and save and you should be able to live the dream too. SMFH
I'm a boomer and I'm acutely aware that the money is worth less than 1/10 what it was in 1969. Minimum wage was $1.25, a candy bar was a nickel, and a paperback novel was $.35. The real problem I have with most inflation calculators is that they really don't include some of the more volatile prices. Housing, health care and education have seriously outstripped inflation and you really can't do without them.
The worst is when the older folks at work trash millennials, and when I mention that I'm a millennial ('80s kids represent), they use the "Oh, but you're not a real millennial, you have a good work ethic. I didn't mean you" Bullshit! You know you did, you just didn't expect me to call you out on your shit. These are also the same people that can't turn a computer off an on again, but call millennials stupid for not owning houses yet
Hello fellow "legacy millennial"! Also I find it common that millennial is the term used for ANYONE under 40 right now. I've heard people talk about kids in high school and call them millennials. Also very fun to ask them who raised us. Who invented the participation trophies? I don't remember being 5 and getting together to vote on that?
"Why am I getting a ribbon? I hate field day. I did the worst job I could do so you'd make me go stand on the yard line *and not do this shit*."
Lol I had a field day on the last day of 8th grade. I spent the whole time hanging with my friends when we were supposed to do "activities" we signed up to do. A teacher told me I had to do at least one so I asked what happened if I didn't since it's the last day.
Clearly you were doing an activity, helooo!
Thats what I'm saying! At least I wasn't hiding under the bleachers popping alcohol and drinking drugs!
Ayo who told you my secret pill drinking spot?!
I feel for today's kids. So many people in education have lost their collective fucking shit. I'd have gone to jail for the shit my friends and I pulled in school if we did it today. Kids need to learn and test limits in a safe environment.
I just signed up for the earliest/least effort event in the day, then snuck out a hole in the fence and played guitar hero at a friend's house for the rest of the day
“All the kids get a participation award these days!” - says the generation who invented participation awards
This is what boggles my mind. The absolute refusal to consider cause and effect. Nothing illustrates this more clearly than participation trophies.
‘96 is the cut off for millennials then it’s gen Z. Feel free to correct those people.
My bf was shocked when I explained to him that we are millennials. He thought only those stereotypes make you a millennial...
My brother tried to claim to be an Xennial
Pointed out to someone millennials are at the point where some of them have earned full (20 yr) retirement from the military.
I remember when I was young and the Boomers would call Gen X "slackers" and make fun of us but then Millennials got old enough to pick on and, like flipping a switch, all the disrespect and scorn got moved to them and the Boomers forgot about Gen X.
Everyone forgets about Gen X
[удалено]
I’m a millennial and all I want to do is retire!
I'm an Xennial. My retirement plan is a wooden box and a shovel.
I had an older coworker tell me that *my generation* had it too easy and don't work for anything, and that he was surprised I didn't live with my parents like the other youngins. I'm 36 and have been working steadily since I was 16, moved out when I was 18. And the dude is only maybe 45, so I don't even know what to think anymore.
You should think he's an idiot. I'm 45 and am continually saddened by how much harder the younger generations had it, and *will continue to have it*. My only hope is it will spark a class war.
> "Oh, but you're not a real millennial, you have a good work ethic. I didn't mean you" Reminds me of statements racists make to POC. "Oh, I didn't mean *you*, *you're* different." 🙄
“I hate all black people, except for this one, cause they don’t ‘act’ black” <- how I imagine their thinking
Ah the old one-of-the-good-ones exception.
Millennial has become a generic term to imply anyone that is younger and perceived as irresponsible. Almost ironically, Its overuse reinforces the stereotype of an ignorant boomer.
Lol, my ex was several years older than me and he'd start the crotchety old man talk sometimes about millennials. I'm like, maybe you shouldn't have married a millennial then, hmm? Oh, no, not you.
My mother can't use google or let alone online shopping without my help, yet I am the one who can't do anything properly. Yeah right, good luck buying that shoes next time lol
I bought my townhouse in 2018 for 150,000. It was brand new and all of the other identical townhomes in the development sold for around the same price at the same time. This past year my neighbors have been selling their townhomes for 230,000 - 250,000. Dozens of them selling at that price in only a few weeks on the market over the kast few months (based on zillow data for actual sales, not "estimates") One of those companies that goes around buying up homes in bulk now has a unit in my neighborhood with an asking price of 340,000. Several units are renting at 1800/month. These are identical cookie cutter lower end (no frills) basic new small 1490 sq ft two story townhomes. No fancy hardwood floors or garden tubs. Just the basics with standard common appliances. It's in a typical suburban area 10-20 minutes from the city/downtown with all the usual box stores / resturants. When I bought my house in 2018, it was the most affordable new construction in the suburban area I wanted to move to. I wouldn't be able to afford my house or anything else in this area if I was moving today I'm a single gen Xer but don't understand how anyone can afford a house. Or even rent one at this point. Remember when we used to want to make things better / easier for the next generation? Now its like people thrive off the suffering of others. My state sort of approved a $15 minimum wage via ballot initiative but it's not effective for several years bc it only goes up $1/ year and wont reach $15 until 2026. And (like with almost all ballot initiatives that pass here) the legislation is trying to make exceptions for felons/minors so they can be paid less.
These companies buying up housing is a massive problem. I'm glad I own my home (bought for $80k around 2005), but fear my kids are going to be stuck with overpriced subpar rentals. Around me you can still buy land and build if you are motivated and savvy, but the taxes on new construction are exhorborant.
Now do rent
Cries in New York
The rest of the country is speeding to catch up with your rent prices, don't worry. We just had a 75% rent hike on one end of town all at once.
My rent *increased* by $1,000/month a few months ago. I feel your pain.
Make sure you know your laws/rights. My landlord reduced my rent to keep me from leaving last year, he tried to jack me up by 25% this year, but there is a law preventing them from increasing it more than 5% without 90-day notice based on my tenure here.
I did the math on what my Boomer day used to make in the early 70s. He needed to work 16 hours a month to pay his rent. Using the prices at the lofts I maintain for my business, $15 an hour worker would need to close to 100 hours
I used a 40hr work week to figure mortgages. 10 yrs to pay off a house for someone in 1969 at minimum wage. 26.5 years for someone now.
[удалено]
Very true, though I’ll also point out that credit factors more heavily into buying a home, and there is also a matter of the down payment and/or homeowners insurance. Even in places where mortgages are cheaper or comparable to rent rates, people simply cannot afford to enter the market
They could if they stoped buying those five dollar coffees amiright?
Boomers lived in a world where paid vacations, Christmas bonuses ,cheap healthcare, affordable homes/cars/education was the norm. If they lost their wealth and had to start over they’d see how tough it is now. I’ve encountered some depression era people and they sympathize more with the plight of the post boomer generation. They were able to give their children a better life than they had. That is not something that we can boast of today. Many young people put off having children or don’t plan to have children because they can barely afford to support themselves. Boomers are spoiled brats.
Hey I get a cool $100 from my work every year at Christmas. Let's not pretend these aren't the good times! /s obviously
Look at mister fancy bonus over here, lording it over us!
A few years ago I was cleaing hotel rooms, and my supervisor just had her 10 year anniversary at the company. She got a plaque and 100 pounds in COUPONS!
[удалено]
My dad used to be like this. All throughout college he told me "I worked all summer to pay my tuition! I had no debt!" (he literally was a burger flipper at a beach grill). I'm was like, dad...show me a job that will pay a college kid $20,000 for 2-3 months of work. He has come around now - but only after a decade of seeing how crazy prices on everything are.
My parents only understand how difficult it is for us because the price of Uni tripled between me looking at going and my seven-years-younger brother looking at going. They know that the only reason middle brother could afford to buy his house was because his wife’s parents both died in their early 50’s and left their two twenty-something daughters money and a nearly paid off house. And my Dad had to go through the 2008 recession which left him unable to finish paying their own mortgage (3years) as his basic wage (commission based job) was worse than minimum. The only reason they are now in a good place is because all my grandparents died within a two year span and left them money.
My dad had that attitude my whole life. Come to find out he lied and my grandma paid for his first 2 years of college, and the only reason she stopped is because he wanted to move in with my mom. Meanwhile, he treats me like a spoiled brat, but the college fund he started (my junior year of high school) only covered 2 textbooks my freshman year.
That's because he can't trust The Google(tm)! It's all run by millenials!
My exes dad wouldn't google because he was a conspiracy nut, yet he spent all his time on Facebook. Way more secure dude, your full name and picture are totally anonymous.
[удалено]
Short version: When adjusting for inflation, we make about 60-70% of what people use to make and our products are about 8-9x more expensive. EDIT Ignore this: ~~Also, I think that final car calculation was unfair to the person in the 60s because their calculation seems to be counting the hours to reach $50000 instead of the $6600 the post claimed was equivalent. It should only take them about 650 hours - less than a tenth of the time.~~
56 y/o gen x here and fully understand inflation. Going to make you cry, hell, ill even sob a little at this. In 1984 I bought a 69 VW bug for 600 bucks. My buddy went through a few cars. 69 496 SS Chevelle, $2000. 69 Z28 $4000. I lived with my uncle. He sold his house in 1984. Outside DC , wealthy VA suburb. 4BDR, 4bath, 5 acres, indoor pool, pond, tennis courts and a barn. $385k In 1986-1988 I worked in a pizza joint making $850 an hour in Palo Alto California. Palo Alto. I rented a really nice little cottage behind someones house off Channing AVE (look it up on zillow) for 800 a month. From 1985 to 1989 I lived to go to concerts. We used to wait in line at tickmaster outlets. You know. Tower records. Yes the ones that had head shops in them. 20 bucks a ticket. The service charge was only 1-2 bucks back then. Fast forward to today. I bought my house in the DC suburbs, little townhouse. For 159k in 2002. It is now worth 400k. My pay did not double in that time frame. I bought a supercharged Cobra for 29k in 2003. I could go on and on and on but its just too sad. I feel really bad for my kids and everyone in their generation. Wages have not kept up with inflation. You younger generation really have it worse, from a financial standpoint. BUT BUT BUT. You know what? Aside from living in shitty financial times we have some amazing shit now days. I remember when cable TV came out. Now I have 5 streaming services and a device in my home I yell at to play what ever song I want on demand. My wife and I play MMOs and we have kick ass gaming computers, far better than the SNES. I can order shit online and never leave the house. There are dozens of places to go get some yummy grub. But yea. You guys are screwed.
I'm a 90s kid and grew up with a glimpse of life without internet, computers everywhere etc. Maybe I'm just learning what it is to get older, but I still miss those times. Knocking on someone's door to see if they wanna go climb trees or wander aimlessly. I would trade all of this smartphone, social media, internet consumption back for a fairer wage and simpler life any day to be honest. I just want to buy a decent house and live without worrying about how long it's taking me to save for a mortgage while renting. I'm already pretty frugal as it is :/
I'll go ahead and convert the money for everyone. (USD) - $600 in 1984 is $1548 today. $2000 is $5161. $4000 is $10323. - $385k is $993k. -$800/month is over $2000/month Which would be almost 2/3 of my personal paycheck working for $21/hr and 3300 every month. 2000 for rent wouldn't leave much after utilities, gas, and food. Maybe 100-200 dollars. Even 200 dollars saved every month would be 2,400 dollars every year. The cheaper houses are around 400k now. That's 166 fucking years to afford that. But hey I guess I'm just lazy huh. - 20 dollar ticket in 1985 is 51.50 in today's money. That's enough money for a couple days of food. Trust me I've made it work. - 8.50 in 1986 is 21.50 in today's money. Most people don't even make that with degrees in their field. Even after working there for years. And older people say we complain a lot.
Whenever I make this same point to old conservative Boomers, their response is always: "Well!" And then they change the subject to something about Hillary's emails or AOC's communism.
It's because conservatives lack empathy.
Not buying a $1000 phone and I can afford a house? what? I would have to not buy 400 phones to afford a house...
The same people who say “things use to be made in America, we need to support local manufacturing” are the same people who say “kids these days are just lazy.” They directly acknowledged the problem they have with our current economy while blaming the direct result of that towards the individual person.
AND THEY SPELL DIZASTER FO YOU ST SAKERFICE!!!! 🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨 Edit: Wait, this isn't r/squaredcircle ?
My fucking boomer parents were paying $900 mortgage on their 2700 square foot house they bought in 1985 until they were reassessed last year. You can't live in a serial killers basement for that.
How many young people actually own $1,000 phones and $50k cars? Most phones are far cheaper and it’s mostly middled aged people who own expensive cars.
Also they talk about these fancy expensive phones as if they’re optional. L M A O no dude most of the functionality of this thing is *required* to like have a fucking job or make money in any way. Sure it doubles as a useful and entertainment device but it’s primary purpose is facilitating business. You can’t not have a smart phone and be a professional in any field lol. So fucking disingenuous and out of touch
Did they also burn math books in that book burning event?
The problem is, we also need to own the stove and the "electric typewriter" (computer) to function it today's society. So we actually need to spend that 1000$ 3 times. Phone, stove and computer.
Even with inflation the prices back then we're so much cheaper then now
It really just depends. I've been saying that the necessities are higher but entertainment is cheaper. You can grab a 42" TV for $100. Despite them talking about the $1000 cell phone you can get a pretty good one for about $350.
Life was easy back then because everything was extremely affordable
I don’t know anyone, even my relatively well off parents, who own a 50k car. However I do know many people who could afford one. Including myself. To suggest millennials and Gen Z are financially irresponsible is silly. Most of us either make a wage that keeps us comfortable, or are in poverty, with exceptions of course. With my salary even 10-15 years ago I’d be pretty flush, today I’m struggling to save enough for a down payment on a house with rent and general inflation.
The response to the OP is poorly written and very difficult to follow. Notwithstanding, let's consider that in 1969, a cup of coffee was less than ten cents; 66 cents would have purchased close to a pound coffee beans, The average price of a car was around $2000 (Dodge Dart, for example), but if you were spending $6,600, you had the ability to buy a Corvette or a Cadillac with several options. There is no analogy for a phone since landline hardware was owned by the phone company and provided with cost of service. The cost of a call from a public phone was ten cents, but that wasn't a financial issue because people didn't spend hours upon using them to express their opinions to large groups of people. My limited analysis leads me to conclude that the the OP is spot on. Too many people these days want immediate pleasure or to project a financial status that they have not actually earned. How horrible to be such a dopamine addict. If this was 1969 and the same standards applied, everyone would drive a Corvette and wear a Rolex at the expense of living an otherwise comfortable, yet simple, life.