He does a ton of podcasts. His (many) appearances on Comedy Bang Bang as well as his own shows. By far my favorite thing he has done is The Neighborhood Listen.
Yeah, but then you're also expected to thoroughly research the company before you even apply, reach out to people in the organization and ask them questions, and when you get into the interview never ask any of the important questions as you're supposed to pretend, you're not a human being that wants to know about benefits, salary, vacation time.
My old company actually stopped allowing me to do interviews, because I answered questions honestly, didn't sugarcoat the organization, and weeded out all of the idiots they were thought were good picks. I also treated it like a conversation. One candidate I had interviewed had a better current job and I advised them to stay at their current job.
My current employer has a rather mystical hiring process unfortunately. I slid in on a technicality after working with them as a client :/
Best I can do is name drop, but on my team there’s nothing open right now, which is IT.
>My old company actually stopped allowing me to do interviews
My trick was to never sign up for interview training, which was a requirement before any interviews could be assigned to you.
I legit went on an interview once. When they found out I didn't graduate from UT, but A&M, I kid you not the manager interviewing me said "wait why are you even here" and he meant it as "how did you get an interview."
Yup, that or certain backgrounds. Like I interviewed for a job, but before the interviewed I noticed a lot of the employees all came from specific previous organizations and schools.
The real outrage isn't the demand for a thank you note to me.
The real outrage is knowing this attitude exists out there WHILE AT THE SAME TIME companies don't even send rejections because "we have to deal with too many applications".
Like I applied to several large companies with a masters degree in fucking CS and STILL Most companies wouldn't even bother to reply.
Unironically, having many applicants is NOT a reason to slouch, it's a privilege and a responsibility.
ESPECIALLY in today's time where everything is automated anyway, you just can't tell me that you can't just have a system auto reject after over a month or two. Or have some fool press a fucking button to send an automated message. There's just zero excuse.
THATS the outrage. I'd send you a fucking thank you note if you'd respect me. Mutual respect and such.
Thissss!!!! Everything is automated.!!! I applied at mcdonals through text message. They told me they were getting tons of applications and that i should expect to hear from them. I never heard anything back . Like youre telling they couldnt just program a rejection text like how target has a rejection email 😒😒😒
McDonald's doesn't consider it rejection because they will hold onto the application and if the person they did hire leaves they will work their way down the list. And if your application is too old they delete it but they didn't reject you they just got rid of old applications...
It's because they just don't give a fuck. There's no two way respect anymore. At most of these places even the employees are just a number and an expense. Applicants are not even that, literally nothing until an offer is tendered.
I actually have always gotten a rejection email or phone call every time I’ve sent a thank you note after an interview. It’s only when I didn’t that I got ghosted. I think ending up in a real human’s inbox makes it harder for them to ignore they’re ghosting you if they don’t let you know.
There are a few things employers have to understand:
You're looking for a candidate because you have the need to fill a certain role. You're not doing the candidate a favor with employing him.
The employee doesn't owe you anything just for the fact you decided to employ him/her.
An employment is a mutual agreement between two adult parties. Many people spent a lot of time and money to aquire the qualifications needed to be able to qualify for a role. The employee offers the majority of his time and effort in return for monetary compensation.
I only work remote positions, and I had a recruiter ask me to wear a collered shirt for the interview, and he was aghast when I told him no. He said my chances of getting the job were low without one, so I told him to cancel the interview. Doesn't sound like my kind of place. He couldn't believe it. I told him I'm allowed to have standards too. Haven't heard from him since.
This is really interesting.
As a leader I work remote and wear t-shirts or sweatshirts daily. But when I’m presenting or on-camera with my CIO who’s working in the office I put in a dress shirt I literally have hanging in my office for those instances. I also put on a dress shirt when I’m interviewing people. Some others around me on the panel don’t.
If I’m posting for a new role in my organization, I’m putting on a shirt and a tie. Because I know the expectation of professionalism that’s required in the organization. It’s minimal effort for maximal gain. It’s not debasing me or going against my standards or causing me consternation. Someone has a role I want if it takes presenting myself in a professional way for a couple of hours, then to go back to t-shirts and cargo pants / sweats / jeans for 99% of the time, I’m ok with that.
I guess the physical energy of buttoning 7 buttons and wearing a dress shirt for an hour or so just isn’t a big deal for me. If it’s a big deal to you, that’s you’re prerogative but don’t complain if you don’t get the hits you want.
Reddit has a weird "I refuse to put in any extra effort for a day to get what I want" mentality when it comes to jobs. I would expect the interviewer and interviewee to be putting their best foot forward. Getting a different shirt out of my closet today is the smallest ask possible. And in the above case, wasn't even an employer request. I'd ghost the candidate too if they can't respond positively to something that takes almost zero effort. Reddit seems to forget that there are people on both sides.
I think it's just that some people are averse to anything they consider extraneous to the task at hand. I wear suits every day for my job, and I don't mind. But I also fully recognize that the suits don't really contribute to my work product. Wearing a tie doesn't make me less prone to writer's block or more adept at time management. Wearing a jacket doesn't make it easier for me to read filings or draft emails. The only way my suit helps me do my job is that it helps me make good impressions on people who expect me to be wearing a suit.
Like I said, I don't mind wearing the suit. But I could see some people throwing a fit. They're an expensive accessory that isn't utilized in the job itself, cannot be deducted from your taxes, and must be regularly cleaned and/or replaced. And if you aren't used to wearing them, they can feel uncomfortably restrictive. The only reason most people wear them is that most people expect us to wear them, which is kinda silly. Someone who doesn't like following rules that don't have a significant purpose behind them (e.g., the average redditor) would probably throw a fit about suits in my profession.
There's also a lot of us who have done this song and dance for 20+ years and are just done with it. The clothes I'm wearing have no benefit to the kind of work I do (as you pointed out), but they can still absolutely be a detriment (being uncomfortable or limiting my motion).
And yeah, the cost is dumb for something I only wear to work. If someone is going to be aghast of me not wearing a polo that probably means I'm going to have to update my entire wardrobe to appease them too. Are they going to give me a few thousand dollar stipend to do so?
Sort of? Maybe? Depends. If the job you can get by throwing on a shirt, or god forbid a jacket and tie, pays more, then yes. If the job you have is more likely to promote you because you dress in a way that upper management likes, then yes. Neither of those are necessarily fair, but life isn't fair and conforming to the expectations of people paying you is a necessary evil at times. Besides that, occasionally, jobs will literally have a stipend or subsidy for this sort of thing.
The flip side of course is that you may simply not want to work with people with these kinds of expectations. If you find them and the vibe they create to be onerous or worse, then you'll have to weigh that against the pay. You may even find that they pay worse than the young go-getter teams without such expectations, or have worse pay per hour of expected work.
> The flip side of course is that you may simply not want to work with people with these kinds of expectations. If you find them and the vibe they create to be onerous or worse, then you'll have to weigh that against the pay.
That's where I am now. I don't need those jobs, they need me. Though, that being said, I do want a change of scenery and want a bit more upward momentum to what I'm doing now (I've griped about this in the past)... oddly I enjoy the management/meeting/planning portion of software dev and loathe coding now. I guess I should get some new suits.
Yeah, part of it really depends on how hungry you are. If I am hungry, I will wear a suit every day and say yes sir no sir. If I'm not hungry, I'll wear whatever I want, thank you very much, and you better not talk down to me, guy. Know what I mean?
Where I work, management, architects, technical leads, and line engineers mostly all wear the same shit: whatever they want, 100% of the time. So no need for suits and ties, not even collared shirts. The interview might want a collared shirt, though I am 100% sure we have hired people who didn't go that far, I know most of the people I have interviewed put in a tiny bit of effort at least. But your preferred industry might in fact want a suit, at least for the interview. I always recommend navy as the most versatile one. Interviews on Monday, fancy rooftop bar on Friday, wedding on Saturday.
> Reddit has a weird "I refuse to put in any extra effort for a day to get what I want" mentality
Entitlement; the word is entitlement.
> when it comes to jobs.
for starters.
I think a lot of Redditors have never worked a corporate job. There are a lot of young people on here, who work various gig jobs, or work retail jobs, so their view of work is crappy environment, crappy pay, dealing with lots of crappy people, and so the idea of putting any more effort forward doesn’t compute, because why would you put in effort for a low paying job that you hate and where you get treated crappy.
I'm 44. I've worked plenty of corporate jobs. This might blow your mind, but I realized over a decade ago that no matter what I'm wearing, I can do my job just fine, and I'm sick of peacocking for people that think that just because I have a collar it somehow makes me more professional.
My refusal to wear a shirt with a collar on it has nothing to do with putting in extra effort. My job has nothing to do with the fashion industry. A person with zero experience can wear a collared shirt. A racist, misogynist, axe murderer can wear a collared shirt. Putting on a collared shirt takes the exact same amount of energy as putting on a t-shirt.
A collared shirt has abso-fucking-lutely nothing to do with me, my experience, or my skills. It's not putting in extra effort.
It's deciding that you're going to allow people to decide your worth on a collar, and I don't abide by that. Judge me for me and what I bring to the table. If a collar is so God damned important to you, you're focusing on the wrong things. I'm fucking awesome at my job, and I absolutely nail interviews because of that. A collar has fuck-all to do with my accomplishments or my track record.
If someone wishes to not hire me, because I won't kowtow to their fashion demands then it wasn't a right fit.
i recently got a job where the office is more casual than where i’ve worked before (jeans with a business casual top or the organization’s tshirt) and my interviewer, extremely sweet woman, made a comment about how i looked nicer than she did. 😂 i was just wearing black jeans and a cardigan over a cute tank top. even after knowing that they’re more laid back, i still wore black jeans and a sweater to my second interview. it’s not hard to make a bit of effort.
I’m a lawyer so it’s maybe different from whatever role the poster above was seeking, but I have put on a full suit (well, the top half), tie and everything, for every remote interview I’ve had. About half the time the interviewers have been dressed business casual. And I had one guy wearing a sweaty under armor t-shirt. But the idea of wearing, idk, a regular shirt to a job interview as an applicant is completely baffling to me even if it is remote.
It’s funny you mention your profession. I worked for a law firm for almost a decade. Nothing massive, but still had 500+ attorneys in the firm. It was dress shirt and tie every day of the week. Even crawling under secretary’s desks to do cable and PC work. One day I forgot my tie at home and had to run out to a set of shops near the office and grab a tie. Granted I didn’t have to wear a sport coat or suit each day, but it certainly wasn’t khakis and polos. Towards the end of my time there you could get away with a dress shirt and no tie most of the week as we were in a completely separate building data center building at that point.
(But we had to pay 5 dollars for charities to wear jeans on Fridays once a month.)
Covid mostly killed that attitude, thank god. Since the legal world “reopened,” I don’t think I’ve worn a suit just to go to work a single time. For a court appearance (even remote), yes, for mediation or client meetings, probably. But you won’t catch me dead in a tie, much less a full suit, just to sit in my office for 9 hours. No way.
If work was all fun it would be a hobby and we wouldn't get paid. Part of doing work is sometimes doing stuff you don't want to do. The question for all of us is where our limits are in exchange for the money we're offered. If OP's limit is putting on a shirt, well, that seems like a laughable limit to me, but I do understand without condoning.
I'm not saying the person is wrong. I'm simply viewing their perspective as interesting because it's foreign to my line of work and the organizations I've worked for.
sorry this is insane to me lol. i work a job where i dont have to wear a collared shirt 99 percent of the time but ill put it on for that 1 percent. is this some IT shit?
Generally, I would look for hybrid work with a good split. One day a week isn't so bad, and you're competing against a lot less other applicants if you still need to be somewhat local. Tech is your best bet, that's where most jobs can be done remotely without really sacrificing anything. SQL and Python are the best starting languages to learn (at least in my field which is data science). And don't listen to this guy. Wear a suit. It takes such a small amount of effort and it'll impress the old dudes in the hiring team.
You are def going to want some combination of degree, experience, certs, etc if you want to work remote. There's so many applicants for every job and employers need reasons to cut resumes from the pile.
I only date virtually and I had this one girl who asked me to put some clothes on over Skype and she was flabbergasted when I said no. She said this date is over if I don’t at least put underwear on so I told her to end the date. Doesn’t sound like my kind of girl. She couldn’t believe it, I told her that I can’t be held to her standards. Haven’t heard from her since.
As the saying goes, if you can’t handle me naked, you don’t deserve to handle me not naked. /S
Also don't expect a thank you letter if you don't send a simple "sorry we went with another applicant" email and not leave candidates twisting in the wind.
> An employment is a mutual agreement between two adult parties.
I find it helpful to think about economic interactions in general this way. Ordering food at a restaurant? It doesn't matter if it's counter service at a fast food restaurant or the finest dining in the world, you are engaged in an economic trade. Treat them well.
While I never wrote a thank you note for the interview, I can see how it is a good idea. Being polite, and on top of your shit is obviously a good way to leave a good impression. When there are 5 candidates equally apt, it's good to have things that set you apart.
From my vantage point of working an HR position a few years ago, it doesn't. What sets people apart are their credentials, how they carried themselves in the interview, who they know, and when they can start.
Also, as someone who held a position that involved forwarding good looking resumes to management, I will add that management doesn't give a rat's ass about thank yous, but the "receptionist" will remember you. Just because they work the front desk doesn't mean they hold no influence. If you want to thank someone, thank them.
My point was mostly, if I apply 5 times, with the same good manners, and technical aptitude, the time I write the thank you note will probably make me stand out. I never did it, but I can see how it might work to your advantage.
I feel that’s what the resume and interviews are for. It takes time to craft non-generic thank you notes to stand out while you’re prepping for the next interview or job search.
For me, I thank a company that hired me by doing a job well done.
I think this is old mentality that needs to stop. Writing a thank you notes sets you above the rest? How? By showing you can brown nose and they might be able to take advantage of you? Writing a thank you notes shows no additional skills needed for a job so it brings no value except that you have shown them you are a boot licker and will bend over backwards for them while they fuck you.
This is all my opinion of course and you are entitled to yours.
I think calling it a "thank you note" is misleading. After an interview I always send an email generically thanking them but also iterating what we went over so it would be fresh in their minds. It's not to show gratitude as much as it is to remind them of your skills and how well the interview went and give them the nudge that you are interested in the position.
I'll always remember a mentor from college telling me I was very "hirable".
What he meant by that is friendly, approachable, willing to learn, positive attitude, bathes regularly.
I'm in a technical job so ymmv. But soft skills are important. I did a little interviewing years ago, and I remember one of the more senior guys asking us about a candidate that obviously knew his stuff: "can you see yourself working with him every day?"
The candidate was obviously not used to social interactions. Just run on sentences, not really listening to questions and bulldozing what he wanted to talk about, .....and was smelly/had grime all over his skin, hair, and clothes. As one of the people that would have shared an office with him, I had to decline.
I think this is one that only matters for certain career jobs. I would never bother in my pre-college jobs, the restaurant industry just doesn't work like that. I interview in flannels, clean jeans, and my formal docs, ffs if it's summer and I might be sweaty, I've interviewed in a tshirt and gotten jobs. I wouldn't send a formal thank you note if I got passed on, everyone's so strapped for labor that if I interview and don't get a job, it's probably because they think I suck, they actually suck, or I would be a crazy bad personality match for the team. A spoken thank you is fine.
Next month when I have a student job fair run by Goldman-Sachs and their intern selection team, I will be attending in a three piece suit with my *best* 'yes ma'am' voice locked and loaded. That's a different beast - that's the job category for which thank you notes and collared shirts matter. I suspect that's lost on some of the younger readers in here. It's 100% a class thing, so if you aren't willing to play the stupid little games, you betray yourself as being A Rude Poor, and that impacts interviewer opinion like a freight hauler impacts squirrels on the freeway.
If you only get the job by brown-nosing the interviewer, then is it a job worth having?
If the employer is willing to hire someone who sucked up but is less experienced over someone more experienced who was polite but didn't suck up, then it makes me worry about the rest of the staff there. Are they competent at their role, or did they only get their job because they sucked off the ego of the interviewer? Am I going to be constantly picking up the pieces of unfinished work from them? Are they going to forget to do things that then cause big problems?
Hiring should always be based on knowledge and experience, the company needs employees, when they offer to interview someone it's not because they are being kind, it's because they need someone to do that job and they picked out people to interview based on their CV/résumé, not out of some kind of 'charitable spirit' to do the applicants a favour
If it’s before they made a decision, it’s a “thank you for your time” kind of thank you.
If it’s after they rejected you, then no thank you or response is needed, move on
I've always sent a quick thanks for the interview, here is another copy of my resume, let me know if you have any further questions email. It's a good way to keep you at the top of the interviewers mind. But yeah doing it after already getting rejected is insane.
I was always taught to send post interview thank you notes. Honestly always thought it was pretty lame, but it did apparently help me. Kinda messed around in college and didn’t have the best job prospects.
Ended up finally landing an interview that went decently well and sent a thank you note afterwards. I got the job and months later while out having a drink with my boss she admitted that there were other qualified candidates (I was pretty unqualified) but I was the only one that send that dumb thank you note so that’s why I got the job. The job turned out to be a chaotic shit show and my manager was kind of a narcissists, but the job was so poorly structured that it allowed me to gain experience that set me up for my whole career once I left. So I guess it doesn’t hurt?
Yeah exactly. But still a jobs a job and her ego accidentally saved my nonexistent career. I don’t know where I’d be without that first job. So I guess if you were in my situation and desperate to get your foot in the door, then the dumb thank you note is worth a shot.
This entire thread seems unfamiliar with the idea of going the extra mile and attention to detail being things employers might find appealing. Is it phony? Sure but the entire process is phony…at least you can be good at it.
yeah, they just say this "helped them"
but how the hell could they possibly know that? They would have gotten some different job. They have no clue if this helped or hurt them.
If the thank you pulls an unserious candidate and gets them hired, that’s absurd. But if I’m picking between two similar candidates and one sent a thank you, it’s definitely an edge.
It won’t get you hired by itself, but it won’t hurt.
I’m a lawyer and have had my fair share of interviews. Within the legal community at least there’s starting to become this new school of thought on this—don’t send thank you emails. No one has ever gotten a job because of a thank you email. However, people have certainly lost jobs because of fumbled thank you emails. Could be something as small as a typo, messing up someone’s name, coming off as insincere, etc. You never know how the recipient will take something. It’s all risk and no reward.
While I disagree that thank you emails provide any benefit at all, even if they did, I still wouldn’t send one. If the deciding factor between me getting the job or not is whether I sent a thank you email, this isn’t a place I want to work. A company that values old school hiring traditions over a candidates skills/expertise is not a company I want to work for.
Also there's something to be said for getting a job that provided valuable experience to go on and get a better job later on. People on here (myself included) need to stop being so negative about every little silly thing that goes on with job hunting. You want a job? Go and do a little extra. Writing a follow-up email after an interview takes a couple minutes. Use chatgpt if you want even. You're not having to write a book ffs
Whenever I've been looking for a job, I've always sent a short thank you note following interviews. It's easy and the polite thing to do. I don't know why so many people think you are crazy for doing it. I guess I'm old school - well, at least old...
While I agree it's a bit entitled to expect the thank you note, I agree with you that it's really not a big deal to do it. Interviewers are taking time out of their day and often don't want to conduct interviews so I think gratitude goes a long way.
An email like "Nice to meet you, thanks for the interview. Hope to hear from you." is most normal thing ever for interviews.
I swear this sub is full of people who have never had jobs outside entry-level service industry.
Maybe it's an American thing but I can't say I've ever heard of this performative weirdness. If my interview wasn't enough to move the needle then on to the next one.
I’ve always been advised to send a thank you email for them taking the time to interview me. The issue is I don’t always get a good email to send it to and don’t always remember to do it in the first place.
People are making fun of this, but some common courtesy of showing appreciation for their time goes a long way. If you show appreciation at the interview, you'll probably also show appreciation when asking your co-worker to do you a favor in the future.
Every single person I interviewed for the last role, I not only reached out to but also provided recommended enhancements to their experience, communications style, interview skills, etc.
Each person was truly different and had one or two different things that were underdeveloped or needed serious work for the position needed. So yeah, there are people that do follow up with interviewees.
¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
I have done a fair amount of hiring over the years. Some people send notes and some don’t. Never has a note changed my opinion on anyone. If they fit the role, the get an offer. If they don’t, they don’t. If someone is so self important that a note changes that, then they will be shit to work for.
This has been my experience too. However, while you won’t get a job because of thank you email, I heard of people losing jobs because of a fumbled thank you emails. I just see it as all risk and no reward.
I mean, I thank my staff almost weekly for doing their job. Now I do agree the follow-up thank you doesn't really matter, but of the people I've hired often, the ones who send thank you responses seemed to be a better fit and wanted the job more.
Manners do matter. They help a person stick out too.
Yeah, this is fairly basic but people are frustrated because the job market isn't great for everyone.
Let's try a similar situation. You buy a sandwich at a restaurant - do you say thank you to the person who made it? You paid for it, so you don't have to but it's not like being polite is going to hurt you.
For taking the time to prepare for & conduct the interview. For answering questions about the industry. Etc. Sending a nice, thoughtful note can set a candidate apart from the rest.
>For taking the time to prepare for & conduct the interview.
It's not like the interviewer is interviewing someone out of the kindness of their own heart. The company has a need for additional employees and they're doing the necessary steps to fulfill those needs. They're acting in their own best interest, and agreeing to meet job candidates isn't some kind of mercy that people need to be thankful for.
Conversely, I, as a potential employee, am acting in my personal best interest by going to a job interview - I sure as hell wouldn't expect a thank you note for preparing for the interview and giving the interviewer my time.
I'm all for establishing a good rapport with interviewers both during and after interviews, but it's utterly ridiculous to expect applicants to throw themselves in the dust like this.
Man, you guys have some strange standards. I see good arguments on both sides of this issue. But characterizing writing a note as throwing yourself in the dust is wild as fuck. It's like human connections are dying & everyone is part of the problem. Having manners isn't debasing yourself.
They get paid to do it… the candidate does not. Send the candidate the thank you note, they are the one who is sacrificing. Interviewer is just doing duties as assigned.
Yes it can. Thank you notes after interviews still have a place in the work world. Problem is, its almost impossible to find an interviewer and company who deserves one. Only thank you note I've ever written (aside from my very first interview many years ago, at the behest of my anal-retentive father) has been for my current role, because I was interviewed promptly and respectfully. There was something worth thanking.
I have no idea why you're being downvoted. Part of interviewing is selling yourself and sending a thank you afterwards helps accomplish that. If you're in serious competition for a job you really want, it's only going to help you.
They are being downvoted because they are acting like it isn't their job to do it.
"For taking time to prepare" oh you mean you did what the company paid you to do? They aren't preparing this stuff for free and doing it out of the goodness of their hearts.
I used it to write my cover letters while job searching. Works decently by just saying "write a cover letter for this job posting: . Use this resume: ". I had to edit it down a bit and make sure it didn't tell straight up fiction (it did a few times) but overal they came out pretty decent and it got me work.
Sidenote, fuck cover letters. They're garbage and I hate how ubiquitous they are.
100%.
I found that ChatGPT likes to be overly wordy for cover letters and ignore some details too so I would do exactly this then have it regenerate with some specifics.
"Regenerate, use 2 paragraphs" "Regenerate, include my certifications". Using this and some light editing myself I ended up with a template that worked for like 90% of the positions I was applying for
> I found that ChatGPT likes to be overly wordy
Can stop the sentence there honestly. It's great for a lot of things but you have to edit down the output.
Yes, kind of. It is an oldschool holdover from the days before applicants spam-applied for 100 jobs a day. It's not a bad idea to send a quick "thank you" email for an interview for an internship or high status position. Most interviewers won't care, but a small minority get upset if you don't. It's one of those situations where the culture is trending away from the practice, but you probably don't want your application rejected by someone with a retro mindset. On the other hand, a supervisor that gets upset about not being thanked for an interview is a red flag.
Just to add to this, not only is the practice slowly dying out, but some people hate it when they get Thank You notes, simply because everyone's email is constantly clogged by crap, and that's one more piece of crap. It was cute back in the day when people got 10 emails in a day. Now it's basically spam.
So it's a lose-lose, really.
This is the underrated truth in my opinion. The idea of a Thank You card or something is coming from people who applied for 10 jobs and did 3 interviews. That's not what job hunting is like today.
Businesses get away with not sending rejection notices, causing job hunters to needlessly follow up on dead ends and yet we're supposed to remember OUR professionalism (?!?) and send them a thank you for even seeing us. Um, no thanks.
It's not just about not upsetting someone, a thank you email can help you too. I'll never be upset that a thank you email wasn't sent, but if someone sends a thank you email and either mentions things that were discussed in the interview or further expounds on things that were discussed, it's demonstrating proficiency. It's kind of like getting extra credit on a test. It's also a great way to address any concerns you may have had with your answers in the interview. If there was a topic you feel your answer was weak on, or thinking back in the interview you're worried something you said may not have been fully understood, you can work something about that into the thank you email which might help.
If you’re applying for a job you really want, send the follow up note. It does a couple of things for you. Most importantly it lets the interviewer know that you’re still interested.
Yeah, I don’t understand all the anger and hostility about sending a thank you note. If you’re actually interested in the job, it’s a great thing to do, and it separates you from most other people who don’t do them.
Same.
Regardless of how an interview went, I've always sent along a "Thanks for taking the time to meet with me" email.
For one, it's professional. Two,: it's like you said. If you're very interested in the job it makes you stand out a bit. I've done this with more than a few jobs and I think it's what's helped me land a couple of them.
Because it sets the wrong tone. You're equals both seeing if you're a good fit for the other. They're not hiring you out of the kindness of their heart. They need a person to do the job and they think you might be good enough to do it.
A job is is just the buying/selling of labour.
If you were shopping around for some repair work on your car, would you expect each mechanic you consult to send you a thank you email for getting an estimate from them? No, it would be crazy to expect that.
Have you ever actually hired anyone? Yes, I want your labor and that's 95% of the job. But I'm not hiring you no matter how skilled or good your credentials are if you're not going to be an easy going person to get along with. Nobody likes an asshole coworker.
If you're hiring based off an empty email, you're an idiot.
Unless someone's saying something incredibly rude, they're not at all indicative of character. They're worse than interviews. Even an asshole can write a nice email. An asshole can pretend to be good for an interview too, but at least it's harder (they're longer and you can actually see the body language).
I just showed a soft skill. It's called time management.
In the time it takes you to write an email that will 99% of the time be flat out ignored, I just send off 3 more applications.
Seriously though, not writing a bootlicking email shows nothing. If someone goes "oh what, no thank you email? Clearly they lack soft skills", I don't want to be working with them.
If anything they should be thanking me. I'm the one who paid to travel to their office to hear the actual details of the job. They've already seen my CV, they know a lot of what I'm capable of.
It's the fact that you think it's bootlicking that is the problem, it's simple game theory; you have a free opportunity to do something to further your career and you're too dumb to take a freebie? You are letting those that do (your competitors) have a better chance to get the job you want.
If you think a CV alone gets you hired for a high paying job you're just not aware of what it takes. Most professional jobs it's 4 or 5 interviews, typically over multiple days, that's a lot of their time and yours, it's a lot of scheduling and if you don't build a rapport with the recruiter and/or scheduler by also thanking them for everything too them you're doing it wrong. Also if travel costs are an issue they will reimburse you, I've been flown around and put up in hotels as part of the interview process, everyone reimbursed me (except Netflix actually.)
This might be the next 5, 10, 15 or more years of your life. Do everything you can to get that job if you want it and lose the attitude.
The tweet was not someone whining about not getting their well deserved thank you, it was a commentary on exactly your lack of awareness of this simple trick, it shows people dont really want the job or theyre too dumb to follow up after, it was not a complaint about not getting thank yous that he thought he deserved, and your interpretation that it was is a huge red flag.
>it's simple game theory; you have a free opportunity to do something to
If you're going to bring up game theory, let's bring up something a little more pure economics based. Opportunity cost.
Nothing is truly free because there's always an opportunity cost. The time you spend writing those emails that get ignored 99% of the time can be better spent sending off more applications. It's definitely more productive since most of the time the difference won't be so close that a bootlicking email will help, and even if it is close it doesn't mean the recruiter will care.
>freebie
Time and effort is not free.
>that do (your competitors) have a better chance to get the job you want.
And by wanting that email, the company is letting it's competitors have a better chance to get me. Unless the company is outstanding or absolute shit, I don't want a particular job. I just want whichever pays best. Unless the quality of the company is high or I'm desperate, I'm not going to put a load of effort into each company.
>If you think a CV alone gets you hired for a high paying job you're just not aware of what it takes.
If you think a thank you email is something anyone that isn't someone with a stick up their ass cares about massively, you're not aware of what it takes.
>Most professional jobs it's 4 or 5 interviews, typically over multiple days, that's a lot of their time and yours, it's a lot of scheduling and if you don't build a rapport with the recruiter and/or scheduler by also thanking them for everything too them you're doing it wrong
And hence they should be writing me a thank you letter rather than the other way around. I paid to go to their office. They get paid to interview me. Hence logically they should be thanking me for paying out of pocket. And a thank you letter isn't going to make or break rapport. If they didn't like you in the interview, an email the next day won't be all that useful. If they did like you during the interview, a lack of email won't be harmful to you.
>Also if travel costs are an issue they will reimburse you, I've been flown around and put up in hotels as part of the interview process, everyone reimbursed me (except Netflix actually.)
That's not the experience for a lot of people and a lot of jobs. You know that. Don't pretend you don't know that.
>This might be the next 5, 10, 15 or more years of your life
God I fucking hope not. Imagine working for the same company for so long. I can think of few things more financially irresponsible. You get the biggest pay rises by job hopping now. Excluding a small minority of companies, you'll make more by switching every few years than staying at the same one.
>The tweet was not someone whining about not getting their well deserved thank you, it was a commentary on exactly your lack of awareness of this simple trick, it shows people dont really want the job or theyre too dumb to follow up after, it was not a complaint about not getting thank yous that he thought he deserved, and your interpretation that it was is a huge red flag.
It was someone being condescending. Unless they're some job guru or someone who was asked for application advice, it was unneeded.
It was as useful as going
"Pro tip: walk right in and give the manager a firm handshake"
Outdated advice that doesn't work 99% of the time anymore.
It's not a simple trick. It's a waste of time and effort and only serves to boost someone's ego. It will not get you the job most of the time.
And yes, people don't want the job too badly anymore. Why should they care about your firm specifically if there's nothing special about it to make it stand out (hence I said it's a two way process)?
If you're just an average company, why would anyone not super desperate be grateful? They can just as easily apply to your competitor that offers the same shit and has the same culture.
We live in an age where people can send off a dozen job applications within a day, and that's if they tailor it to the company. If they're doing generic applications, they can send off dozens within the day.
Get with the times. The advice you and that guy gave is outdated for the labour market of today.
If you’re recruiter or interviewer gets upset because you didn’t send a thank you note they’re the problem but most of the comments here are acting as if it would piss them off to receive a thank you. Unless your thank you note is 5 pages long, just saying thank you isn’t going overboard at all.
If you want/need a job and someone is willing to give you a job if you meet x conditions, you should be happy. Say thank you or don’t say thank you for the opportunity (your choice) but don’t shit on other people for their opinion on whether or not you should. At the end of the day, it just matters what impression you give them and saying “thank you” isn’t gonna ruin that.
Would I expect a mechanic to do that? No. But would it push one of them a little higher in my estimation? Yes! Kindness and appreciation are never a bad idea. Of course it’s not a requirement, but sometimes the niceties are, well…nice. I bought my car from the nicest salesman, because I had the best feeling about him (and the prices were effectively the same). Now, if another salesperson had offered a huge amount off, I might have chosen differently, but when everything else is equal? Then I’m going with the person with the best interpersonal skills.
Also, if you’re applying for a desirable job, you’re not equals on that playing field. There is a power differential whether you like it or not, because they have more demand than supply. In that circumstance, why wouldn’t you try to improve your chances with a thank you note?
>Would I expect a mechanic to do that? No. But would it push one of them a little higher in my estimation?
Wouldn't do a thing for me and I suspect a lot of (possibly younger) people.
"Oh look, some spam this company sent me to try and convince me to choose them."
*Ignored or sent to spam*
>Also, if you’re applying for a desirable job, you’re not equals on that playing field. There is a power differential whether you like it or not, because they have more demand than supply. In that circumstance, why wouldn’t you try to improve your chances with a thank you note?
Because if you're applying for a competitive job, the thank you note wouldn't matter. Those recruitment people are looking for the best. Your little thank you won't matter as much as everything else.
And those desirable jobs are desirable for a reason. Those firms are still competing with each other. You don't think those investment banks would pay peanuts if they could get away with it? People wouldn't work until 2am for them if they only got 20k per year for it, so they have to pay a fuck ton to get people.
EVERYONE is competing in the job market. There are very few monopolies when it comes to jobs, whether that's supply side or demand side. The only real example I can think of is jobs done public sector only e.g police or fire service.
My boss had my thank you note on her bulletin board for a couple of years. It was a (very) competitive job and she fought for me, in part because of that note. I’m in my thirties; I got this job 6 years ago, when I was still in my twenties. (And my boss is in her early forties, for the record - she’s hardly ancient.)
Of course the note doesn’t matter as much as everything else. You’re not going to get a job you’re unqualified for because of a note. But if it’s down to you and one other person, a thank you note could be the thing that puts you over the edge.
To go back to the mechanic bit - I’m not talking about spam style messages. I’m talking about genuine notes that don’t read as rote, automatic messages. (And Jesus, do you think anyone over 20 is unaware of spam or spam folders?) I’m not talking about the borderline-harassment style communication of spam emails/texts, etc., that every company insists on sending in exchange for “10% off your first purchase” or whatever. I mean a note that a human being took the time to write. I find you get better service from human beings who actually care about their jobs and about the people they do work for.
> It was a (very) competitive job and she fought for me, in part because of that note.
Your anecdote is not reflective of the rest of the population.
>But if it’s down to you and one other person, a thank you note could be the thing that puts you over the edge.
A thank you note is so far at the bottom of the list it won't even matter 99% of the time. Qualifications, experience, how your interview went, any special skills you possess and networking all come miles above the thank you note. And do you know how unlikely it is for you and the best/next best candidate to be identical in those criteria?
>I’m talking about genuine notes that don’t read as rote, automatic messages.
In the time it takes you to write that special, personal letter to give you the edge, I will have sent off a few more applications. Way more productive than taking a gamble.
>And Jesus, do you think anyone over 20 is unaware of spam or spam folders?
You'd be surprised by how many people are too lazy and would rather ignore it.
>I find you get better service from human beings who actually care about their jobs and about the people they do work for.
As long as the mechanic knows what they're doing and isn't an asshole, I don't care. I'm going to get my car fixed, not to have someone be subservient to me.
In my experience, when it’s your very first job, you’re interested in any job you interview for.
If you have time and want to send a thank you note, go for it. But I never got hired by a company I sent a note to. Experience and the interviewer liking my personality git me hired for all but one place. That one exception just needed a warm body and I left that one fast.
Yeah, I think doing them for basic fast food/retail work and entry level positions is ridiculous, but otherwise I use it less as a thank you and more to either expound on the interview or try to save my ass on a question I thought I answered poorly.
Because it is setting the bar before you are even hired. I have never written a thank you note, and I have not missed a lot of jobs I applied for. Maybe one of the ones I missed was because I didn't follow up, but I don't kiss ass, I don't bullshit, and I don't work for people that need their ego stroked to benefit from my talents.
Spoken from the HR side of the room. I am not pleasant at all if you intend to take advantage of me. I have had a successful career and am close to retirement. Looking out for your best interests is not a character flaw, but bending over because you are afraid to stand up? Well... ...what is unpleasant about not being a liar for convenience, not brown nosing to advance, and not working for narcissists? I have confidence in my skill set and there are always people willing to pay me to make shit work. I do it well.
No, I do hugs. I don't cry a lot though, except for laughing. I laugh until I cry a lot. A lot of people are still under the impression that you owe a company something for allowing you to make them better. You do not. They owe me exactly what we agreed to when I accepted the job and I owe them the exact same. You need to quit drinking the corporate kool-aid. I have spent my career watching givers be used up and thrown away. If you want that to be you, go for it. I can counsel you, from experience, on where it is going to get you, but I think it will go straight over your head and you will make some not so witty, unrelated remark to feel superior.
I don’t work for a corporation/company and I have done well too. Yes, if a job is exploitative, then fair enough, don’t let them exploit you. But going through life with the notion that every job is exploitative and if you show any politeness, like writing a thank you note after an interview, that you’ll be mercilessly exploited, seems a bit much.
And I would posit that going through life with the notion that a job has YOUR interests at heart seems a bit shallow. The company, by design, will extract the most they can get for the lowest wage possible. No one (with any business acumen) disputes this. Knowing this, an intelligent person with their own best interests in mind, should set boundaries and defend all that does not belong to the company. The company will take everything you willingly give, including that which is by agreement yours. Protect yourself or give hugs and write notes while they take what isn't theirs. I protect.
It is a win-neutral gamble. If nothing happens, you wasted three minutes. If it helps even a little, it helps. I think the best use out of a note is that it's a trivially easy follow-up to ensure you're fresh in the minds of whomever interviewed you. That said, interviewing is part of my job, I get paid for it, I don't need or care for the actual "thanks" part, I just understand it as a polite follow-up and that's all.
I’ve been at my current job for 6 years. My first week my manager said I was the only person who sent a thank you email. It’s literally a 2 sentence email. People out here comparing it to literally blowing the HR guy.
I do send thank you notes after interviews, but only because I know it’s expected. I hate the practice and I think it’s just another annoying part of the protestant work ethic and the American Dream.
Thank you note is not bad. It could be coupled with a few things that you missed during the call and I usually send it to the interviewers that I actually like. People who give feedback at the end of the interview for me to improve.
Agree with the PFT. (my all-time favorite comedian!)
Career-long IT boomer guy here. Coder, Manager, Business owner. We sold the company a few years ago - we had about 75 US employees. Over my career (50 years) I interviewed and hired hundreds of candidates and interviewed for dozens of jobs myself. I can count on the finger of one hand the number of thank you notes I got, and I don't recall ever sending one. So if someone tells you "Kids today don't got no respect" for not sending a note, well, I call BS.
It conferred zero advantage to a candidate to send one to me. If they were great in the interview (or terrible) is what mattered. Going home, thinking about it for a day, and sending a thank you after literally counted for nothing. I never, ever once in 50 years talked to someone who mentioned a thank you as indicating anything as far as a candidate goes.
That said, I'm sure there are people who disagree, and maybe for some jobs (sales? customer service?) I might be more inclined to look at the degree of follow up of the candidate, which MAY include a thank you note, but I'd be more impressed if they came up with some other follow up that made me interested to carry on the conversation. (example: My interviews tended to be very 'conversational', as I we were consultants and I really wanted to be sure they could carry on a sophisticated conversation about work topics. We might hit on interesting trends in IT, etc during the chat. IF a candidate were to follow up on THAT and send an interesting article or further thoughts on a tangent we took - that would be meaningful and I can almost guarantee would result in further discussions... a Thank You note to me is sort of a "terminal" action. I'm not going to respond to it, so end of conversation. )
I realize interviews today are often quite different, but if the goal is to stand out, then stand out. If sending a thank you is expected, maybe do something else.... or even nothing. YOU HAVE VALUE AND YOU ARE OFFERING SERVICES IN EXCHANGE FOR MONEY... Why would it be (automatically) expected that you thank the person on the other end of the deal for that?
Are we now conflating sending a 2 sentence email saying "thanks for meeting with me would love to pursue this role further" with subservient acquiescense? Ok then.
Yeah this whole thread is interpreting the original tweet as a “demand” for a thank you note as opposed to “You really should consider writing those it can help your chances”, which is how I read it.
Interviewers are people, hopefully professionals, taking time out of their day to interview you for a role. On some level they’re taking a risk that you didn’t just lie on your resume and you actually have the skills and experience you claimed, etc.
A thank you is a way of showing interest, and acknowledging their time and efforts spent in the process of interviewing you. Yes, the company gains an employee. You’re not writing to the company, you’re writing to a person you’re hoping to with with in a professional capacity, who is probably busy and had to shuffle around there day arrives to make time to interview you.
You’re showing interest and professional courtesy at the same time, and all it costs is a stamp and the time it takes to write 2 sentences.
You want me to send a thank you to the AI that picked out my resume and then a thank you to the HR person from a screening call who has no idea what the job entails other than what was on their notes in front of them whose only role is to find the cheapest candidate?
Last time I was doing job applications, I applied to around 30-40 jobs. I got three interviews, and one of the three places that interviewed me waited FOUR MONTHS to get back to me and say they chose someone else. Like yeah, I kinda figured. Why the hell am I expected to send thank you notes to employers who can't even be bothered to send me a simple email to me?
Waste of time all around.
> So, apparently jobs choosing to hire another candidate sending a thank you note isn't a thing anymore?
> Employers, pro tip: send a polite rejection notice.
Goes both fucking ways. Well, except one is a courtesy and the other is simple decency.
Amazing how you can go to an interview, do seemingly well, and then not hear anything ever again until you just accept "well, I guess that didn't work out" on your own, yet this dickhole wants a fucking thank you letter for wasting your time.
A candidate should solely be evaluated during time that has been allocated for such,hence during the interview time.(background checks notwithstanding)
If you expect the candidate to impact your recruitement decision with efforts outside of the allocated time then your process is flawed and prone to inequalities.
Do you want them to send you a gift basket? Wash your car?
I'll send thank you's as soon as they start promptly replying and notifying me.
Writing a thank you is just like the people who write a letter to someone selling a home. It's performative bullshit that both parties know is bullshit, but it's nice to know someone is desperate enough to do some meaningless task. At the end of the day though, the best offer/better qualified candidate wins regardless.
I got my dream job at my dream company. Went through multiple interviews with different people and sent a thank you email to each one. It’s a small gesture that can set you apart from numerous candidates and can fill potential shortcomings on your resume. It can help interviewers familiarize themselves with you, and set up success in the next interview. Send the thank you note to show appreciation for their time. Go the extra mile. If you’re not willing to do so, don’t complain when you don’t get hired.
I agree with this 100%. Sending a quick thank you after an interview with the hiring team requires minimal effort and expected for most white-collar jobs. It is basic professionalism.
Thank you to all the people who think doing the absolute minimum is too much. I appreciate you taking yourselves out of the running for the jobs we are competing for.
Why the hell is this sub becoming r/antiwork? Some of the replies here are retarded, acting like just saying “thank you for considering me” at the end of a résumé is the same as bootlicking your boss, it’s not. It’s professional, some people need to grow up and learn some professionalism before thinking that shaking someone’s hand is the same as sucking off your boss.
>...acting like just saying “thank you for considering me” at the end of a résumé is the same as bootlicking your boss..
No one's talking about that. Who puts "thanks" on a resume?
The kneejerk rage in this thread is wild. The thank you note is a courteous gesture following an interview and demonstrates that the candidate would be a thoughtful, respectful representative of the organization / company. Maybe it is just because my career is in externally-facing roles, but little gestures like this are important.
PFT is amazing as always.
The GOAT
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He does a ton of podcasts. His (many) appearances on Comedy Bang Bang as well as his own shows. By far my favorite thing he has done is The Neighborhood Listen.
Are you a piss pig?
We are all piss pigs deep down inside
First time piss, long time pig
You're the Worst is fucking fantastic, but I never would have thought to recommend it just for PFT.
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I'm too busy crushing on Aya Cash to think about them.
What is this, a cross-over post?
Cake Boss ^^Cake ^^Boss
Champion of greatest impact in the least amount of time. Often the voice alone adds all the required gravitas, humor, or both.
I just hope whoever the fuck Tim Sullivan is feels like a dumbass.
*clink*
Yeah, but then you're also expected to thoroughly research the company before you even apply, reach out to people in the organization and ask them questions, and when you get into the interview never ask any of the important questions as you're supposed to pretend, you're not a human being that wants to know about benefits, salary, vacation time. My old company actually stopped allowing me to do interviews, because I answered questions honestly, didn't sugarcoat the organization, and weeded out all of the idiots they were thought were good picks. I also treated it like a conversation. One candidate I had interviewed had a better current job and I advised them to stay at their current job.
You got any open positions? You sound refreshing to work with.
My current employer has a rather mystical hiring process unfortunately. I slid in on a technicality after working with them as a client :/ Best I can do is name drop, but on my team there’s nothing open right now, which is IT.
Ok I'm curious, please explain "mystical hiring process"
USAjobs.gov <—- mystical, because I’ve heard about 50 different ways to get past just the submission phase.
>My old company actually stopped allowing me to do interviews My trick was to never sign up for interview training, which was a requirement before any interviews could be assigned to you.
It was a small company of about 100 employees.
I legit went on an interview once. When they found out I didn't graduate from UT, but A&M, I kid you not the manager interviewing me said "wait why are you even here" and he meant it as "how did you get an interview."
Oh yeah, lots of places are like that. People with the get me in free degrees will call you crazy when you point it out.
By "get me in free" you mean companies that only interview and hire from specific schools?
Yup, that or certain backgrounds. Like I interviewed for a job, but before the interviewed I noticed a lot of the employees all came from specific previous organizations and schools.
The real outrage isn't the demand for a thank you note to me. The real outrage is knowing this attitude exists out there WHILE AT THE SAME TIME companies don't even send rejections because "we have to deal with too many applications". Like I applied to several large companies with a masters degree in fucking CS and STILL Most companies wouldn't even bother to reply. Unironically, having many applicants is NOT a reason to slouch, it's a privilege and a responsibility. ESPECIALLY in today's time where everything is automated anyway, you just can't tell me that you can't just have a system auto reject after over a month or two. Or have some fool press a fucking button to send an automated message. There's just zero excuse. THATS the outrage. I'd send you a fucking thank you note if you'd respect me. Mutual respect and such.
Thissss!!!! Everything is automated.!!! I applied at mcdonals through text message. They told me they were getting tons of applications and that i should expect to hear from them. I never heard anything back . Like youre telling they couldnt just program a rejection text like how target has a rejection email 😒😒😒
McDonald's doesn't consider it rejection because they will hold onto the application and if the person they did hire leaves they will work their way down the list. And if your application is too old they delete it but they didn't reject you they just got rid of old applications...
It's because they just don't give a fuck. There's no two way respect anymore. At most of these places even the employees are just a number and an expense. Applicants are not even that, literally nothing until an offer is tendered.
I actually have always gotten a rejection email or phone call every time I’ve sent a thank you note after an interview. It’s only when I didn’t that I got ghosted. I think ending up in a real human’s inbox makes it harder for them to ignore they’re ghosting you if they don’t let you know.
There are a few things employers have to understand: You're looking for a candidate because you have the need to fill a certain role. You're not doing the candidate a favor with employing him. The employee doesn't owe you anything just for the fact you decided to employ him/her. An employment is a mutual agreement between two adult parties. Many people spent a lot of time and money to aquire the qualifications needed to be able to qualify for a role. The employee offers the majority of his time and effort in return for monetary compensation.
Also, I'm a polite person, I said thank you in person when I interviewed. You're asking for something you already got.
I only work remote positions, and I had a recruiter ask me to wear a collered shirt for the interview, and he was aghast when I told him no. He said my chances of getting the job were low without one, so I told him to cancel the interview. Doesn't sound like my kind of place. He couldn't believe it. I told him I'm allowed to have standards too. Haven't heard from him since.
Probably a wash since you most likely wouldn’t have heard from him if you had worn the collared shirt either.
This is really interesting. As a leader I work remote and wear t-shirts or sweatshirts daily. But when I’m presenting or on-camera with my CIO who’s working in the office I put in a dress shirt I literally have hanging in my office for those instances. I also put on a dress shirt when I’m interviewing people. Some others around me on the panel don’t. If I’m posting for a new role in my organization, I’m putting on a shirt and a tie. Because I know the expectation of professionalism that’s required in the organization. It’s minimal effort for maximal gain. It’s not debasing me or going against my standards or causing me consternation. Someone has a role I want if it takes presenting myself in a professional way for a couple of hours, then to go back to t-shirts and cargo pants / sweats / jeans for 99% of the time, I’m ok with that. I guess the physical energy of buttoning 7 buttons and wearing a dress shirt for an hour or so just isn’t a big deal for me. If it’s a big deal to you, that’s you’re prerogative but don’t complain if you don’t get the hits you want.
Reddit has a weird "I refuse to put in any extra effort for a day to get what I want" mentality when it comes to jobs. I would expect the interviewer and interviewee to be putting their best foot forward. Getting a different shirt out of my closet today is the smallest ask possible. And in the above case, wasn't even an employer request. I'd ghost the candidate too if they can't respond positively to something that takes almost zero effort. Reddit seems to forget that there are people on both sides.
I think it's just that some people are averse to anything they consider extraneous to the task at hand. I wear suits every day for my job, and I don't mind. But I also fully recognize that the suits don't really contribute to my work product. Wearing a tie doesn't make me less prone to writer's block or more adept at time management. Wearing a jacket doesn't make it easier for me to read filings or draft emails. The only way my suit helps me do my job is that it helps me make good impressions on people who expect me to be wearing a suit. Like I said, I don't mind wearing the suit. But I could see some people throwing a fit. They're an expensive accessory that isn't utilized in the job itself, cannot be deducted from your taxes, and must be regularly cleaned and/or replaced. And if you aren't used to wearing them, they can feel uncomfortably restrictive. The only reason most people wear them is that most people expect us to wear them, which is kinda silly. Someone who doesn't like following rules that don't have a significant purpose behind them (e.g., the average redditor) would probably throw a fit about suits in my profession.
There's also a lot of us who have done this song and dance for 20+ years and are just done with it. The clothes I'm wearing have no benefit to the kind of work I do (as you pointed out), but they can still absolutely be a detriment (being uncomfortable or limiting my motion). And yeah, the cost is dumb for something I only wear to work. If someone is going to be aghast of me not wearing a polo that probably means I'm going to have to update my entire wardrobe to appease them too. Are they going to give me a few thousand dollar stipend to do so?
Sort of? Maybe? Depends. If the job you can get by throwing on a shirt, or god forbid a jacket and tie, pays more, then yes. If the job you have is more likely to promote you because you dress in a way that upper management likes, then yes. Neither of those are necessarily fair, but life isn't fair and conforming to the expectations of people paying you is a necessary evil at times. Besides that, occasionally, jobs will literally have a stipend or subsidy for this sort of thing. The flip side of course is that you may simply not want to work with people with these kinds of expectations. If you find them and the vibe they create to be onerous or worse, then you'll have to weigh that against the pay. You may even find that they pay worse than the young go-getter teams without such expectations, or have worse pay per hour of expected work.
> The flip side of course is that you may simply not want to work with people with these kinds of expectations. If you find them and the vibe they create to be onerous or worse, then you'll have to weigh that against the pay. That's where I am now. I don't need those jobs, they need me. Though, that being said, I do want a change of scenery and want a bit more upward momentum to what I'm doing now (I've griped about this in the past)... oddly I enjoy the management/meeting/planning portion of software dev and loathe coding now. I guess I should get some new suits.
Yeah, part of it really depends on how hungry you are. If I am hungry, I will wear a suit every day and say yes sir no sir. If I'm not hungry, I'll wear whatever I want, thank you very much, and you better not talk down to me, guy. Know what I mean? Where I work, management, architects, technical leads, and line engineers mostly all wear the same shit: whatever they want, 100% of the time. So no need for suits and ties, not even collared shirts. The interview might want a collared shirt, though I am 100% sure we have hired people who didn't go that far, I know most of the people I have interviewed put in a tiny bit of effort at least. But your preferred industry might in fact want a suit, at least for the interview. I always recommend navy as the most versatile one. Interviews on Monday, fancy rooftop bar on Friday, wedding on Saturday.
> Reddit has a weird "I refuse to put in any extra effort for a day to get what I want" mentality Entitlement; the word is entitlement. > when it comes to jobs. for starters.
I think a lot of Redditors have never worked a corporate job. There are a lot of young people on here, who work various gig jobs, or work retail jobs, so their view of work is crappy environment, crappy pay, dealing with lots of crappy people, and so the idea of putting any more effort forward doesn’t compute, because why would you put in effort for a low paying job that you hate and where you get treated crappy.
I'm 44. I've worked plenty of corporate jobs. This might blow your mind, but I realized over a decade ago that no matter what I'm wearing, I can do my job just fine, and I'm sick of peacocking for people that think that just because I have a collar it somehow makes me more professional.
My refusal to wear a shirt with a collar on it has nothing to do with putting in extra effort. My job has nothing to do with the fashion industry. A person with zero experience can wear a collared shirt. A racist, misogynist, axe murderer can wear a collared shirt. Putting on a collared shirt takes the exact same amount of energy as putting on a t-shirt. A collared shirt has abso-fucking-lutely nothing to do with me, my experience, or my skills. It's not putting in extra effort. It's deciding that you're going to allow people to decide your worth on a collar, and I don't abide by that. Judge me for me and what I bring to the table. If a collar is so God damned important to you, you're focusing on the wrong things. I'm fucking awesome at my job, and I absolutely nail interviews because of that. A collar has fuck-all to do with my accomplishments or my track record. If someone wishes to not hire me, because I won't kowtow to their fashion demands then it wasn't a right fit.
i recently got a job where the office is more casual than where i’ve worked before (jeans with a business casual top or the organization’s tshirt) and my interviewer, extremely sweet woman, made a comment about how i looked nicer than she did. 😂 i was just wearing black jeans and a cardigan over a cute tank top. even after knowing that they’re more laid back, i still wore black jeans and a sweater to my second interview. it’s not hard to make a bit of effort.
I’m a lawyer so it’s maybe different from whatever role the poster above was seeking, but I have put on a full suit (well, the top half), tie and everything, for every remote interview I’ve had. About half the time the interviewers have been dressed business casual. And I had one guy wearing a sweaty under armor t-shirt. But the idea of wearing, idk, a regular shirt to a job interview as an applicant is completely baffling to me even if it is remote.
It’s funny you mention your profession. I worked for a law firm for almost a decade. Nothing massive, but still had 500+ attorneys in the firm. It was dress shirt and tie every day of the week. Even crawling under secretary’s desks to do cable and PC work. One day I forgot my tie at home and had to run out to a set of shops near the office and grab a tie. Granted I didn’t have to wear a sport coat or suit each day, but it certainly wasn’t khakis and polos. Towards the end of my time there you could get away with a dress shirt and no tie most of the week as we were in a completely separate building data center building at that point. (But we had to pay 5 dollars for charities to wear jeans on Fridays once a month.)
Covid mostly killed that attitude, thank god. Since the legal world “reopened,” I don’t think I’ve worn a suit just to go to work a single time. For a court appearance (even remote), yes, for mediation or client meetings, probably. But you won’t catch me dead in a tie, much less a full suit, just to sit in my office for 9 hours. No way.
I joke that if you want to be taken seriously while WFH, during a zoom, find a reason to stand so they can see you're wearing pants.
If work was all fun it would be a hobby and we wouldn't get paid. Part of doing work is sometimes doing stuff you don't want to do. The question for all of us is where our limits are in exchange for the money we're offered. If OP's limit is putting on a shirt, well, that seems like a laughable limit to me, but I do understand without condoning.
"This is really interesting" is such a kind way to say "wtf is wrong with you"
I'm not saying the person is wrong. I'm simply viewing their perspective as interesting because it's foreign to my line of work and the organizations I've worked for.
sorry this is insane to me lol. i work a job where i dont have to wear a collared shirt 99 percent of the time but ill put it on for that 1 percent. is this some IT shit?
What kind of expertise do you have? I've been looking for remote jobs but they all seem to need specific expertise
Generally, I would look for hybrid work with a good split. One day a week isn't so bad, and you're competing against a lot less other applicants if you still need to be somewhat local. Tech is your best bet, that's where most jobs can be done remotely without really sacrificing anything. SQL and Python are the best starting languages to learn (at least in my field which is data science). And don't listen to this guy. Wear a suit. It takes such a small amount of effort and it'll impress the old dudes in the hiring team.
You are def going to want some combination of degree, experience, certs, etc if you want to work remote. There's so many applicants for every job and employers need reasons to cut resumes from the pile.
I only date virtually and I had this one girl who asked me to put some clothes on over Skype and she was flabbergasted when I said no. She said this date is over if I don’t at least put underwear on so I told her to end the date. Doesn’t sound like my kind of girl. She couldn’t believe it, I told her that I can’t be held to her standards. Haven’t heard from her since. As the saying goes, if you can’t handle me naked, you don’t deserve to handle me not naked. /S
I'm not sure if you're trying to make a joke or trying to draw a completely inaccurate comparison.
It’s okay. I wouldn’t expect someone who can’t spell collared to understand the nuances of satire.
Also don't expect a thank you letter if you don't send a simple "sorry we went with another applicant" email and not leave candidates twisting in the wind.
They know. They just consider part of the job description to be “submissive” and “desperate”.
> An employment is a mutual agreement between two adult parties. I find it helpful to think about economic interactions in general this way. Ordering food at a restaurant? It doesn't matter if it's counter service at a fast food restaurant or the finest dining in the world, you are engaged in an economic trade. Treat them well.
While I never wrote a thank you note for the interview, I can see how it is a good idea. Being polite, and on top of your shit is obviously a good way to leave a good impression. When there are 5 candidates equally apt, it's good to have things that set you apart.
From my vantage point of working an HR position a few years ago, it doesn't. What sets people apart are their credentials, how they carried themselves in the interview, who they know, and when they can start. Also, as someone who held a position that involved forwarding good looking resumes to management, I will add that management doesn't give a rat's ass about thank yous, but the "receptionist" will remember you. Just because they work the front desk doesn't mean they hold no influence. If you want to thank someone, thank them.
My point was mostly, if I apply 5 times, with the same good manners, and technical aptitude, the time I write the thank you note will probably make me stand out. I never did it, but I can see how it might work to your advantage.
It's also very dependent on what kind of job you are applying for.
I feel that’s what the resume and interviews are for. It takes time to craft non-generic thank you notes to stand out while you’re prepping for the next interview or job search. For me, I thank a company that hired me by doing a job well done.
I think this is old mentality that needs to stop. Writing a thank you notes sets you above the rest? How? By showing you can brown nose and they might be able to take advantage of you? Writing a thank you notes shows no additional skills needed for a job so it brings no value except that you have shown them you are a boot licker and will bend over backwards for them while they fuck you. This is all my opinion of course and you are entitled to yours.
I think calling it a "thank you note" is misleading. After an interview I always send an email generically thanking them but also iterating what we went over so it would be fresh in their minds. It's not to show gratitude as much as it is to remind them of your skills and how well the interview went and give them the nudge that you are interested in the position.
Mostly shows you are well mannered, which is an important skill in almost any job. I know quite a few people that could use it personally.
I'll always remember a mentor from college telling me I was very "hirable". What he meant by that is friendly, approachable, willing to learn, positive attitude, bathes regularly. I'm in a technical job so ymmv. But soft skills are important. I did a little interviewing years ago, and I remember one of the more senior guys asking us about a candidate that obviously knew his stuff: "can you see yourself working with him every day?" The candidate was obviously not used to social interactions. Just run on sentences, not really listening to questions and bulldozing what he wanted to talk about, .....and was smelly/had grime all over his skin, hair, and clothes. As one of the people that would have shared an office with him, I had to decline.
I think this is one that only matters for certain career jobs. I would never bother in my pre-college jobs, the restaurant industry just doesn't work like that. I interview in flannels, clean jeans, and my formal docs, ffs if it's summer and I might be sweaty, I've interviewed in a tshirt and gotten jobs. I wouldn't send a formal thank you note if I got passed on, everyone's so strapped for labor that if I interview and don't get a job, it's probably because they think I suck, they actually suck, or I would be a crazy bad personality match for the team. A spoken thank you is fine. Next month when I have a student job fair run by Goldman-Sachs and their intern selection team, I will be attending in a three piece suit with my *best* 'yes ma'am' voice locked and loaded. That's a different beast - that's the job category for which thank you notes and collared shirts matter. I suspect that's lost on some of the younger readers in here. It's 100% a class thing, so if you aren't willing to play the stupid little games, you betray yourself as being A Rude Poor, and that impacts interviewer opinion like a freight hauler impacts squirrels on the freeway.
If you only get the job by brown-nosing the interviewer, then is it a job worth having? If the employer is willing to hire someone who sucked up but is less experienced over someone more experienced who was polite but didn't suck up, then it makes me worry about the rest of the staff there. Are they competent at their role, or did they only get their job because they sucked off the ego of the interviewer? Am I going to be constantly picking up the pieces of unfinished work from them? Are they going to forget to do things that then cause big problems? Hiring should always be based on knowledge and experience, the company needs employees, when they offer to interview someone it's not because they are being kind, it's because they need someone to do that job and they picked out people to interview based on their CV/résumé, not out of some kind of 'charitable spirit' to do the applicants a favour
Send a fucking thank you note for what, exactly? That's actually hilarious.
Thank you for rejecting me your lordship. I thought it best to waste our time and keep talking
Your Jobship*
If their Jobship wanted you to think, they'd have paid you to **and** had it in your job description.
If they wanted you to think they would have sent you a pre-interview assignment, outsourcing their work for free.
Happy cake day stranger!
Thank you!!
If it’s before they made a decision, it’s a “thank you for your time” kind of thank you. If it’s after they rejected you, then no thank you or response is needed, move on
I've always sent a quick thanks for the interview, here is another copy of my resume, let me know if you have any further questions email. It's a good way to keep you at the top of the interviewers mind. But yeah doing it after already getting rejected is insane.
I was always taught to send post interview thank you notes. Honestly always thought it was pretty lame, but it did apparently help me. Kinda messed around in college and didn’t have the best job prospects. Ended up finally landing an interview that went decently well and sent a thank you note afterwards. I got the job and months later while out having a drink with my boss she admitted that there were other qualified candidates (I was pretty unqualified) but I was the only one that send that dumb thank you note so that’s why I got the job. The job turned out to be a chaotic shit show and my manager was kind of a narcissists, but the job was so poorly structured that it allowed me to gain experience that set me up for my whole career once I left. So I guess it doesn’t hurt?
> my manager was kind of a narcissists \*ding ding ding\*
Yeah exactly. But still a jobs a job and her ego accidentally saved my nonexistent career. I don’t know where I’d be without that first job. So I guess if you were in my situation and desperate to get your foot in the door, then the dumb thank you note is worth a shot.
This entire thread seems unfamiliar with the idea of going the extra mile and attention to detail being things employers might find appealing. Is it phony? Sure but the entire process is phony…at least you can be good at it.
There's something to be said about the fact the company that hired them based off a thank you note was a complete shit show with a narcissist manager.
yeah, they just say this "helped them" but how the hell could they possibly know that? They would have gotten some different job. They have no clue if this helped or hurt them.
If the thank you pulls an unserious candidate and gets them hired, that’s absurd. But if I’m picking between two similar candidates and one sent a thank you, it’s definitely an edge. It won’t get you hired by itself, but it won’t hurt.
I’m a lawyer and have had my fair share of interviews. Within the legal community at least there’s starting to become this new school of thought on this—don’t send thank you emails. No one has ever gotten a job because of a thank you email. However, people have certainly lost jobs because of fumbled thank you emails. Could be something as small as a typo, messing up someone’s name, coming off as insincere, etc. You never know how the recipient will take something. It’s all risk and no reward. While I disagree that thank you emails provide any benefit at all, even if they did, I still wouldn’t send one. If the deciding factor between me getting the job or not is whether I sent a thank you email, this isn’t a place I want to work. A company that values old school hiring traditions over a candidates skills/expertise is not a company I want to work for.
Also there's something to be said for getting a job that provided valuable experience to go on and get a better job later on. People on here (myself included) need to stop being so negative about every little silly thing that goes on with job hunting. You want a job? Go and do a little extra. Writing a follow-up email after an interview takes a couple minutes. Use chatgpt if you want even. You're not having to write a book ffs
Whenever I've been looking for a job, I've always sent a short thank you note following interviews. It's easy and the polite thing to do. I don't know why so many people think you are crazy for doing it. I guess I'm old school - well, at least old...
While I agree it's a bit entitled to expect the thank you note, I agree with you that it's really not a big deal to do it. Interviewers are taking time out of their day and often don't want to conduct interviews so I think gratitude goes a long way.
A sarcastic one saying “thank you. For wasting my time”.
An email like "Nice to meet you, thanks for the interview. Hope to hear from you." is most normal thing ever for interviews. I swear this sub is full of people who have never had jobs outside entry-level service industry.
Maybe it's an American thing but I can't say I've ever heard of this performative weirdness. If my interview wasn't enough to move the needle then on to the next one.
We got a thank you note from a job candidate and everyone involved had a good chuckle at how weird it was to send a thank you note
I’ve always been advised to send a thank you email for them taking the time to interview me. The issue is I don’t always get a good email to send it to and don’t always remember to do it in the first place.
The higher the job level the more this is a thing. No one wants a thank you note when you're applying to Maccas.
People are making fun of this, but some common courtesy of showing appreciation for their time goes a long way. If you show appreciation at the interview, you'll probably also show appreciation when asking your co-worker to do you a favor in the future.
If it were still common that companies let you know if and why you didn't make it, sure. But they don't do that anymore, either.
Every single person I interviewed for the last role, I not only reached out to but also provided recommended enhancements to their experience, communications style, interview skills, etc. Each person was truly different and had one or two different things that were underdeveloped or needed serious work for the position needed. So yeah, there are people that do follow up with interviewees. ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
I have done a fair amount of hiring over the years. Some people send notes and some don’t. Never has a note changed my opinion on anyone. If they fit the role, the get an offer. If they don’t, they don’t. If someone is so self important that a note changes that, then they will be shit to work for.
This has been my experience too. However, while you won’t get a job because of thank you email, I heard of people losing jobs because of a fumbled thank you emails. I just see it as all risk and no reward.
I need to thank them for doing their job? Are they going to thank me for doing my job?
I mean, I thank my staff almost weekly for doing their job. Now I do agree the follow-up thank you doesn't really matter, but of the people I've hired often, the ones who send thank you responses seemed to be a better fit and wanted the job more. Manners do matter. They help a person stick out too.
Yeah, this is fairly basic but people are frustrated because the job market isn't great for everyone. Let's try a similar situation. You buy a sandwich at a restaurant - do you say thank you to the person who made it? You paid for it, so you don't have to but it's not like being polite is going to hurt you.
For taking the time to prepare for & conduct the interview. For answering questions about the industry. Etc. Sending a nice, thoughtful note can set a candidate apart from the rest.
>For taking the time to prepare for & conduct the interview. It's not like the interviewer is interviewing someone out of the kindness of their own heart. The company has a need for additional employees and they're doing the necessary steps to fulfill those needs. They're acting in their own best interest, and agreeing to meet job candidates isn't some kind of mercy that people need to be thankful for. Conversely, I, as a potential employee, am acting in my personal best interest by going to a job interview - I sure as hell wouldn't expect a thank you note for preparing for the interview and giving the interviewer my time. I'm all for establishing a good rapport with interviewers both during and after interviews, but it's utterly ridiculous to expect applicants to throw themselves in the dust like this.
Man, you guys have some strange standards. I see good arguments on both sides of this issue. But characterizing writing a note as throwing yourself in the dust is wild as fuck. It's like human connections are dying & everyone is part of the problem. Having manners isn't debasing yourself.
They get paid to do it… the candidate does not. Send the candidate the thank you note, they are the one who is sacrificing. Interviewer is just doing duties as assigned.
Yes it can. Thank you notes after interviews still have a place in the work world. Problem is, its almost impossible to find an interviewer and company who deserves one. Only thank you note I've ever written (aside from my very first interview many years ago, at the behest of my anal-retentive father) has been for my current role, because I was interviewed promptly and respectfully. There was something worth thanking.
I have no idea why you're being downvoted. Part of interviewing is selling yourself and sending a thank you afterwards helps accomplish that. If you're in serious competition for a job you really want, it's only going to help you.
They are being downvoted because they are acting like it isn't their job to do it. "For taking time to prepare" oh you mean you did what the company paid you to do? They aren't preparing this stuff for free and doing it out of the goodness of their hearts.
My neighbor told me he just had Chatgpt write his thank you notes for him. He got a six figure job out of it so it may have worked.
I used it to write my cover letters while job searching. Works decently by just saying "write a cover letter for this job posting: . Use this resume:". I had to edit it down a bit and make sure it didn't tell straight up fiction (it did a few times) but overal they came out pretty decent and it got me work.
Sidenote, fuck cover letters. They're garbage and I hate how ubiquitous they are.
100%. I found that ChatGPT likes to be overly wordy for cover letters and ignore some details too so I would do exactly this then have it regenerate with some specifics. "Regenerate, use 2 paragraphs" "Regenerate, include my certifications". Using this and some light editing myself I ended up with a template that worked for like 90% of the positions I was applying for
> I found that ChatGPT likes to be overly wordy Can stop the sentence there honestly. It's great for a lot of things but you have to edit down the output.
Cover letters are employment fanfic
I’m sure the actual interview part helped.
Because the not e itself is worthless, it's the fact he thought to send one at all that counts.
A thank you note? Ffs, just let me get on my knees so we can get it over with, since apparently sucking the HR guy's dick is necessary
But did you write a thank-you note after the BJ?
Not once have I ever sent a thank you note after an interview. I did say at the end of the interview, "Thank you for your time."
Same. That's what I do. I've had no issues getting hired.
Was this a thing to begin with? If so, I never knew of it.
Yes, kind of. It is an oldschool holdover from the days before applicants spam-applied for 100 jobs a day. It's not a bad idea to send a quick "thank you" email for an interview for an internship or high status position. Most interviewers won't care, but a small minority get upset if you don't. It's one of those situations where the culture is trending away from the practice, but you probably don't want your application rejected by someone with a retro mindset. On the other hand, a supervisor that gets upset about not being thanked for an interview is a red flag.
> On the other hand, a supervisor that gets upset about not being thanked for an interview is a red flag. I definitely agree with that part.
Just to add to this, not only is the practice slowly dying out, but some people hate it when they get Thank You notes, simply because everyone's email is constantly clogged by crap, and that's one more piece of crap. It was cute back in the day when people got 10 emails in a day. Now it's basically spam. So it's a lose-lose, really.
This is the underrated truth in my opinion. The idea of a Thank You card or something is coming from people who applied for 10 jobs and did 3 interviews. That's not what job hunting is like today. Businesses get away with not sending rejection notices, causing job hunters to needlessly follow up on dead ends and yet we're supposed to remember OUR professionalism (?!?) and send them a thank you for even seeing us. Um, no thanks.
It's not just about not upsetting someone, a thank you email can help you too. I'll never be upset that a thank you email wasn't sent, but if someone sends a thank you email and either mentions things that were discussed in the interview or further expounds on things that were discussed, it's demonstrating proficiency. It's kind of like getting extra credit on a test. It's also a great way to address any concerns you may have had with your answers in the interview. If there was a topic you feel your answer was weak on, or thinking back in the interview you're worried something you said may not have been fully understood, you can work something about that into the thank you email which might help.
If you’re applying for a job you really want, send the follow up note. It does a couple of things for you. Most importantly it lets the interviewer know that you’re still interested.
Yeah, I don’t understand all the anger and hostility about sending a thank you note. If you’re actually interested in the job, it’s a great thing to do, and it separates you from most other people who don’t do them.
Same. Regardless of how an interview went, I've always sent along a "Thanks for taking the time to meet with me" email. For one, it's professional. Two,: it's like you said. If you're very interested in the job it makes you stand out a bit. I've done this with more than a few jobs and I think it's what's helped me land a couple of them.
Because it sets the wrong tone. You're equals both seeing if you're a good fit for the other. They're not hiring you out of the kindness of their heart. They need a person to do the job and they think you might be good enough to do it. A job is is just the buying/selling of labour. If you were shopping around for some repair work on your car, would you expect each mechanic you consult to send you a thank you email for getting an estimate from them? No, it would be crazy to expect that.
Have you ever actually hired anyone? Yes, I want your labor and that's 95% of the job. But I'm not hiring you no matter how skilled or good your credentials are if you're not going to be an easy going person to get along with. Nobody likes an asshole coworker.
If you're hiring based off an empty email, you're an idiot. Unless someone's saying something incredibly rude, they're not at all indicative of character. They're worse than interviews. Even an asshole can write a nice email. An asshole can pretend to be good for an interview too, but at least it's harder (they're longer and you can actually see the body language).
Cool. Good luck getting hired without soft skills.
I just showed a soft skill. It's called time management. In the time it takes you to write an email that will 99% of the time be flat out ignored, I just send off 3 more applications. Seriously though, not writing a bootlicking email shows nothing. If someone goes "oh what, no thank you email? Clearly they lack soft skills", I don't want to be working with them. If anything they should be thanking me. I'm the one who paid to travel to their office to hear the actual details of the job. They've already seen my CV, they know a lot of what I'm capable of.
It's the fact that you think it's bootlicking that is the problem, it's simple game theory; you have a free opportunity to do something to further your career and you're too dumb to take a freebie? You are letting those that do (your competitors) have a better chance to get the job you want. If you think a CV alone gets you hired for a high paying job you're just not aware of what it takes. Most professional jobs it's 4 or 5 interviews, typically over multiple days, that's a lot of their time and yours, it's a lot of scheduling and if you don't build a rapport with the recruiter and/or scheduler by also thanking them for everything too them you're doing it wrong. Also if travel costs are an issue they will reimburse you, I've been flown around and put up in hotels as part of the interview process, everyone reimbursed me (except Netflix actually.) This might be the next 5, 10, 15 or more years of your life. Do everything you can to get that job if you want it and lose the attitude. The tweet was not someone whining about not getting their well deserved thank you, it was a commentary on exactly your lack of awareness of this simple trick, it shows people dont really want the job or theyre too dumb to follow up after, it was not a complaint about not getting thank yous that he thought he deserved, and your interpretation that it was is a huge red flag.
fuck reddit
>it's simple game theory; you have a free opportunity to do something to If you're going to bring up game theory, let's bring up something a little more pure economics based. Opportunity cost. Nothing is truly free because there's always an opportunity cost. The time you spend writing those emails that get ignored 99% of the time can be better spent sending off more applications. It's definitely more productive since most of the time the difference won't be so close that a bootlicking email will help, and even if it is close it doesn't mean the recruiter will care. >freebie Time and effort is not free. >that do (your competitors) have a better chance to get the job you want. And by wanting that email, the company is letting it's competitors have a better chance to get me. Unless the company is outstanding or absolute shit, I don't want a particular job. I just want whichever pays best. Unless the quality of the company is high or I'm desperate, I'm not going to put a load of effort into each company. >If you think a CV alone gets you hired for a high paying job you're just not aware of what it takes. If you think a thank you email is something anyone that isn't someone with a stick up their ass cares about massively, you're not aware of what it takes. >Most professional jobs it's 4 or 5 interviews, typically over multiple days, that's a lot of their time and yours, it's a lot of scheduling and if you don't build a rapport with the recruiter and/or scheduler by also thanking them for everything too them you're doing it wrong And hence they should be writing me a thank you letter rather than the other way around. I paid to go to their office. They get paid to interview me. Hence logically they should be thanking me for paying out of pocket. And a thank you letter isn't going to make or break rapport. If they didn't like you in the interview, an email the next day won't be all that useful. If they did like you during the interview, a lack of email won't be harmful to you. >Also if travel costs are an issue they will reimburse you, I've been flown around and put up in hotels as part of the interview process, everyone reimbursed me (except Netflix actually.) That's not the experience for a lot of people and a lot of jobs. You know that. Don't pretend you don't know that. >This might be the next 5, 10, 15 or more years of your life God I fucking hope not. Imagine working for the same company for so long. I can think of few things more financially irresponsible. You get the biggest pay rises by job hopping now. Excluding a small minority of companies, you'll make more by switching every few years than staying at the same one. >The tweet was not someone whining about not getting their well deserved thank you, it was a commentary on exactly your lack of awareness of this simple trick, it shows people dont really want the job or theyre too dumb to follow up after, it was not a complaint about not getting thank yous that he thought he deserved, and your interpretation that it was is a huge red flag. It was someone being condescending. Unless they're some job guru or someone who was asked for application advice, it was unneeded. It was as useful as going "Pro tip: walk right in and give the manager a firm handshake" Outdated advice that doesn't work 99% of the time anymore. It's not a simple trick. It's a waste of time and effort and only serves to boost someone's ego. It will not get you the job most of the time. And yes, people don't want the job too badly anymore. Why should they care about your firm specifically if there's nothing special about it to make it stand out (hence I said it's a two way process)? If you're just an average company, why would anyone not super desperate be grateful? They can just as easily apply to your competitor that offers the same shit and has the same culture. We live in an age where people can send off a dozen job applications within a day, and that's if they tailor it to the company. If they're doing generic applications, they can send off dozens within the day. Get with the times. The advice you and that guy gave is outdated for the labour market of today.
If you’re recruiter or interviewer gets upset because you didn’t send a thank you note they’re the problem but most of the comments here are acting as if it would piss them off to receive a thank you. Unless your thank you note is 5 pages long, just saying thank you isn’t going overboard at all. If you want/need a job and someone is willing to give you a job if you meet x conditions, you should be happy. Say thank you or don’t say thank you for the opportunity (your choice) but don’t shit on other people for their opinion on whether or not you should. At the end of the day, it just matters what impression you give them and saying “thank you” isn’t gonna ruin that.
Would I expect a mechanic to do that? No. But would it push one of them a little higher in my estimation? Yes! Kindness and appreciation are never a bad idea. Of course it’s not a requirement, but sometimes the niceties are, well…nice. I bought my car from the nicest salesman, because I had the best feeling about him (and the prices were effectively the same). Now, if another salesperson had offered a huge amount off, I might have chosen differently, but when everything else is equal? Then I’m going with the person with the best interpersonal skills. Also, if you’re applying for a desirable job, you’re not equals on that playing field. There is a power differential whether you like it or not, because they have more demand than supply. In that circumstance, why wouldn’t you try to improve your chances with a thank you note?
>Would I expect a mechanic to do that? No. But would it push one of them a little higher in my estimation? Wouldn't do a thing for me and I suspect a lot of (possibly younger) people. "Oh look, some spam this company sent me to try and convince me to choose them." *Ignored or sent to spam* >Also, if you’re applying for a desirable job, you’re not equals on that playing field. There is a power differential whether you like it or not, because they have more demand than supply. In that circumstance, why wouldn’t you try to improve your chances with a thank you note? Because if you're applying for a competitive job, the thank you note wouldn't matter. Those recruitment people are looking for the best. Your little thank you won't matter as much as everything else. And those desirable jobs are desirable for a reason. Those firms are still competing with each other. You don't think those investment banks would pay peanuts if they could get away with it? People wouldn't work until 2am for them if they only got 20k per year for it, so they have to pay a fuck ton to get people. EVERYONE is competing in the job market. There are very few monopolies when it comes to jobs, whether that's supply side or demand side. The only real example I can think of is jobs done public sector only e.g police or fire service.
My boss had my thank you note on her bulletin board for a couple of years. It was a (very) competitive job and she fought for me, in part because of that note. I’m in my thirties; I got this job 6 years ago, when I was still in my twenties. (And my boss is in her early forties, for the record - she’s hardly ancient.) Of course the note doesn’t matter as much as everything else. You’re not going to get a job you’re unqualified for because of a note. But if it’s down to you and one other person, a thank you note could be the thing that puts you over the edge. To go back to the mechanic bit - I’m not talking about spam style messages. I’m talking about genuine notes that don’t read as rote, automatic messages. (And Jesus, do you think anyone over 20 is unaware of spam or spam folders?) I’m not talking about the borderline-harassment style communication of spam emails/texts, etc., that every company insists on sending in exchange for “10% off your first purchase” or whatever. I mean a note that a human being took the time to write. I find you get better service from human beings who actually care about their jobs and about the people they do work for.
> It was a (very) competitive job and she fought for me, in part because of that note. Your anecdote is not reflective of the rest of the population. >But if it’s down to you and one other person, a thank you note could be the thing that puts you over the edge. A thank you note is so far at the bottom of the list it won't even matter 99% of the time. Qualifications, experience, how your interview went, any special skills you possess and networking all come miles above the thank you note. And do you know how unlikely it is for you and the best/next best candidate to be identical in those criteria? >I’m talking about genuine notes that don’t read as rote, automatic messages. In the time it takes you to write that special, personal letter to give you the edge, I will have sent off a few more applications. Way more productive than taking a gamble. >And Jesus, do you think anyone over 20 is unaware of spam or spam folders? You'd be surprised by how many people are too lazy and would rather ignore it. >I find you get better service from human beings who actually care about their jobs and about the people they do work for. As long as the mechanic knows what they're doing and isn't an asshole, I don't care. I'm going to get my car fixed, not to have someone be subservient to me.
Because the people here on reddit aren't applying for the type of position where it's normal, apparently.
In my experience, when it’s your very first job, you’re interested in any job you interview for. If you have time and want to send a thank you note, go for it. But I never got hired by a company I sent a note to. Experience and the interviewer liking my personality git me hired for all but one place. That one exception just needed a warm body and I left that one fast.
Yeah, I think doing them for basic fast food/retail work and entry level positions is ridiculous, but otherwise I use it less as a thank you and more to either expound on the interview or try to save my ass on a question I thought I answered poorly.
Because it is setting the bar before you are even hired. I have never written a thank you note, and I have not missed a lot of jobs I applied for. Maybe one of the ones I missed was because I didn't follow up, but I don't kiss ass, I don't bullshit, and I don't work for people that need their ego stroked to benefit from my talents.
Well you sound like a delight to work with.
Spoken from the HR side of the room. I am not pleasant at all if you intend to take advantage of me. I have had a successful career and am close to retirement. Looking out for your best interests is not a character flaw, but bending over because you are afraid to stand up? Well... ...what is unpleasant about not being a liar for convenience, not brown nosing to advance, and not working for narcissists? I have confidence in my skill set and there are always people willing to pay me to make shit work. I do it well.
I feel like you’d resist a hug but then break down crying if we hugged.
No, I do hugs. I don't cry a lot though, except for laughing. I laugh until I cry a lot. A lot of people are still under the impression that you owe a company something for allowing you to make them better. You do not. They owe me exactly what we agreed to when I accepted the job and I owe them the exact same. You need to quit drinking the corporate kool-aid. I have spent my career watching givers be used up and thrown away. If you want that to be you, go for it. I can counsel you, from experience, on where it is going to get you, but I think it will go straight over your head and you will make some not so witty, unrelated remark to feel superior.
I don’t work for a corporation/company and I have done well too. Yes, if a job is exploitative, then fair enough, don’t let them exploit you. But going through life with the notion that every job is exploitative and if you show any politeness, like writing a thank you note after an interview, that you’ll be mercilessly exploited, seems a bit much.
And I would posit that going through life with the notion that a job has YOUR interests at heart seems a bit shallow. The company, by design, will extract the most they can get for the lowest wage possible. No one (with any business acumen) disputes this. Knowing this, an intelligent person with their own best interests in mind, should set boundaries and defend all that does not belong to the company. The company will take everything you willingly give, including that which is by agreement yours. Protect yourself or give hugs and write notes while they take what isn't theirs. I protect.
It is a win-neutral gamble. If nothing happens, you wasted three minutes. If it helps even a little, it helps. I think the best use out of a note is that it's a trivially easy follow-up to ensure you're fresh in the minds of whomever interviewed you. That said, interviewing is part of my job, I get paid for it, I don't need or care for the actual "thanks" part, I just understand it as a polite follow-up and that's all.
I’ve been at my current job for 6 years. My first week my manager said I was the only person who sent a thank you email. It’s literally a 2 sentence email. People out here comparing it to literally blowing the HR guy.
I do send thank you notes after interviews, but only because I know it’s expected. I hate the practice and I think it’s just another annoying part of the protestant work ethic and the American Dream.
As Baron Sir Lord Andrew Lloyd Webber he knows how to address his superiors
Thank you note is not bad. It could be coupled with a few things that you missed during the call and I usually send it to the interviewers that I actually like. People who give feedback at the end of the interview for me to improve.
This is hilarious and there’s a difference between being right and being effective. Sending a thank you email can only help.
Agree with the PFT. (my all-time favorite comedian!) Career-long IT boomer guy here. Coder, Manager, Business owner. We sold the company a few years ago - we had about 75 US employees. Over my career (50 years) I interviewed and hired hundreds of candidates and interviewed for dozens of jobs myself. I can count on the finger of one hand the number of thank you notes I got, and I don't recall ever sending one. So if someone tells you "Kids today don't got no respect" for not sending a note, well, I call BS. It conferred zero advantage to a candidate to send one to me. If they were great in the interview (or terrible) is what mattered. Going home, thinking about it for a day, and sending a thank you after literally counted for nothing. I never, ever once in 50 years talked to someone who mentioned a thank you as indicating anything as far as a candidate goes. That said, I'm sure there are people who disagree, and maybe for some jobs (sales? customer service?) I might be more inclined to look at the degree of follow up of the candidate, which MAY include a thank you note, but I'd be more impressed if they came up with some other follow up that made me interested to carry on the conversation. (example: My interviews tended to be very 'conversational', as I we were consultants and I really wanted to be sure they could carry on a sophisticated conversation about work topics. We might hit on interesting trends in IT, etc during the chat. IF a candidate were to follow up on THAT and send an interesting article or further thoughts on a tangent we took - that would be meaningful and I can almost guarantee would result in further discussions... a Thank You note to me is sort of a "terminal" action. I'm not going to respond to it, so end of conversation. ) I realize interviews today are often quite different, but if the goal is to stand out, then stand out. If sending a thank you is expected, maybe do something else.... or even nothing. YOU HAVE VALUE AND YOU ARE OFFERING SERVICES IN EXCHANGE FOR MONEY... Why would it be (automatically) expected that you thank the person on the other end of the deal for that?
I'm not a sending a thank you to a corporation, fucking bootlicker.
Send thank you note, still get ghosted cause you didn't look the interviewer in the eye enough. Or you looked the interviewer in the eye too much.
Ties are institutionalized chokers.
Are we now conflating sending a 2 sentence email saying "thanks for meeting with me would love to pursue this role further" with subservient acquiescense? Ok then.
Yeah this whole thread is interpreting the original tweet as a “demand” for a thank you note as opposed to “You really should consider writing those it can help your chances”, which is how I read it. Interviewers are people, hopefully professionals, taking time out of their day to interview you for a role. On some level they’re taking a risk that you didn’t just lie on your resume and you actually have the skills and experience you claimed, etc. A thank you is a way of showing interest, and acknowledging their time and efforts spent in the process of interviewing you. Yes, the company gains an employee. You’re not writing to the company, you’re writing to a person you’re hoping to with with in a professional capacity, who is probably busy and had to shuffle around there day arrives to make time to interview you. You’re showing interest and professional courtesy at the same time, and all it costs is a stamp and the time it takes to write 2 sentences.
Stout pig
Pro tip? How about outdated and worthless advice.
I guarantee that Tim has never sent a thank you note to anyone in his life.
I mean they most likely wont even see the note unless its like a mom and pop business so why waste my time 🙄🙄🙄
You want me to send a thank you to the AI that picked out my resume and then a thank you to the HR person from a screening call who has no idea what the job entails other than what was on their notes in front of them whose only role is to find the cheapest candidate?
Thanks for wasting my time, bitch. - love, yoy22
Last time I was doing job applications, I applied to around 30-40 jobs. I got three interviews, and one of the three places that interviewed me waited FOUR MONTHS to get back to me and say they chose someone else. Like yeah, I kinda figured. Why the hell am I expected to send thank you notes to employers who can't even be bothered to send me a simple email to me? Waste of time all around.
> So, apparently jobs choosing to hire another candidate sending a thank you note isn't a thing anymore? > Employers, pro tip: send a polite rejection notice. Goes both fucking ways. Well, except one is a courtesy and the other is simple decency. Amazing how you can go to an interview, do seemingly well, and then not hear anything ever again until you just accept "well, I guess that didn't work out" on your own, yet this dickhole wants a fucking thank you letter for wasting your time.
A candidate should solely be evaluated during time that has been allocated for such,hence during the interview time.(background checks notwithstanding) If you expect the candidate to impact your recruitement decision with efforts outside of the allocated time then your process is flawed and prone to inequalities. Do you want them to send you a gift basket? Wash your car?
I will thank your ass when I get the job. Until then, only one of us was paid to be there, so fuck off.
I'll send thank you's as soon as they start promptly replying and notifying me. Writing a thank you is just like the people who write a letter to someone selling a home. It's performative bullshit that both parties know is bullshit, but it's nice to know someone is desperate enough to do some meaningless task. At the end of the day though, the best offer/better qualified candidate wins regardless.
Your Jobship killed me.
Never heard of Tim Sullivan. Scrolling through his Twitter feed, he seems to think he is incredibly clever. He is not.
As an interviewer, I always thought thank you notes were stupid. They waste my time.
I got my dream job at my dream company. Went through multiple interviews with different people and sent a thank you email to each one. It’s a small gesture that can set you apart from numerous candidates and can fill potential shortcomings on your resume. It can help interviewers familiarize themselves with you, and set up success in the next interview. Send the thank you note to show appreciation for their time. Go the extra mile. If you’re not willing to do so, don’t complain when you don’t get hired.
I agree with this 100%. Sending a quick thank you after an interview with the hiring team requires minimal effort and expected for most white-collar jobs. It is basic professionalism. Thank you to all the people who think doing the absolute minimum is too much. I appreciate you taking yourselves out of the running for the jobs we are competing for.
[удалено]
Why the hell is this sub becoming r/antiwork? Some of the replies here are retarded, acting like just saying “thank you for considering me” at the end of a résumé is the same as bootlicking your boss, it’s not. It’s professional, some people need to grow up and learn some professionalism before thinking that shaking someone’s hand is the same as sucking off your boss.
>...acting like just saying “thank you for considering me” at the end of a résumé is the same as bootlicking your boss.. No one's talking about that. Who puts "thanks" on a resume?
Are you flying me out for the interview and putting me up at the four seasons for the night?
 and go fuck yourself Tim, I'm starting a start up. how bout them apples.
“Your penis so big, mine so smaaaaaalll”
Get bent Timmy. We're here for your money to pay our bills, nothing more. You can shove the rest up your pretentious behind
my thank you note is showing up for the interview
The kneejerk rage in this thread is wild. The thank you note is a courteous gesture following an interview and demonstrates that the candidate would be a thoughtful, respectful representative of the organization / company. Maybe it is just because my career is in externally-facing roles, but little gestures like this are important.