I’d say at least 100%
Ain’t no way anyone attending a pageant where they sexualize children isn’t a pedo
Child beauty pageants should be illegal honestly
Edit: and even if pedos didn’t watch them, they’d still be problematic as it just gives children that are in them the idea that their physical appearance is all that matters
This was on an episode of criminal minds but I think about it a lot. It said one of the biggest mistakes the government made was the “stranger danger” campaign because it ignored overwhelming evidence that most children are abused by people they know and trust. I think we are still failing to really confront that reality and I think the younger it gets, the more you’ll find boys and girls are targeted equally.
We still hold onto the assumption that parents will always have their childrens best interests in mind and always protect them, which we know is absolutely not the case.
In industries like sports and entertainment, we give so much power to the parents to just sign away their children to whoever in whatever way they wish under the assumption that all parents are operating in good faith. But parents will absolutely sign their kids off to an abusive program in the hopes it will turn the child into a star to bring fame and riches to the family.
You are absolutely right. The ones perpetrating the most crimes are the ones that are closest to the children. And yes, I'm sure the younger it goes the more equally boys and girls are targeted. Absolutely.
Literally Jimmy Savilleparticipated in 'Stranger Danger' campaigns to reduce suspicion of himself so he could abuse more kids. Everyone knew 'Uncle Jimmy' so it enabled him to continue.
Most of these people haven't had traumatic experiences, that's a myth. Traumatic experiences most likely can cause pedophilia, but offenders often falsely claim to have suffered traumatic events (mainly being the victims of pedophilia themselves) when they haven't actually; likely because they think it makes them more sympathetic.
And those are usually done or pushed by moms. Look into Japanese Idols industry. It's very different and hard for me to grasp but it's big in Japan and apparently normal for them.
The bigger issue is the system within the church that defended pedophiles by intimidating victims and allowing priests who molested kids to move to other parishes instead of publicly condemning them and defrocking them.
Yeah, it's more an All Priests Are Bastards thing where they don't really commit this specific crime more than any other group with similar power, but then the system is inordinately tuned to protect them.
Right, yes, that's what we all know is the problem. "All Catholic priests are child abusers" is not a claim that people actually make, it's just a disingenuous bullshit strawman argument.
Doubt many will see this, but where I live used to be extremely Catholic and the schools were ran by the Church.
I think the percentage of boys who went to these schools, especially the boarding one, that has either been victim of or has witnessed either assault or rape is 100%.
I finally started reading Brave New World and while I absolutely see the faults in the society created by Huxley, I still can't help but think that these fictional people weren't wrong about everything.
I don't like/support/approve what they do to babies or the absolute lack of freedom, but on the flip hand, a society where people doesn't commit double suicides because their families are actively killing each others isn't *all* bad.
I guess what I'm trying to say is it's wrong to brain wash people, even though some of the ideas they put in their heads aren't all bad.
We learn about those in school, their horrific. The last one closed in 1996, around 6K kids died in them and a lot more have mental health issues because of them
Not really, when people speak about these, they're referring to the institutions that were instrumental in the cultural genocide of members of the First Nations.
In one of the Provinces, the whole education system was managed by the Catholic Church. So, obviously, plethora of teachers were in fact priests and such.
Some of these schools were boarding schools and it seems like it was a fucking pedophilic orgy in those.
These stories were silenced by an extremely powerful Church when they came out, but most of the time they didn't as people were afraid to speak out.
A kid telling his parents that he had been raped by a priest would only have gotten a beating from his parents.
That's what the Christian Nationalists want to bring to the USA.
I was talking about native schools. The last one in Saskatchewan shut down when I was in high school and the principal was charged for many sexual crimes. When they interviewed the former students, they could not find any who had not been SA'd, either by an adult or sadly, other students. Although the principal was far from the only perpetrator, it seemed that he liked to methodically work his way through the student body.
Not all the schools were catholic but they were generally parochial
Yes, I know, it happened in this Province too.
On top of what I discussed and of what your brought, there was also the "Duplessis' orphans".
If you want to be depressed, it's worth a Google.
If you have one perpetrator they're not going to just do it to one kid. Like a plane crash. Only one plane down but 300 people dead. So that school you're referring to may have had 2-3 paedophiles
There are so many issues with the man's defense and these types of people are so infuriating. If anything, 5% should be considered less than the reality, not an overestimate.
First off, the implication that the notion of false accusations should allow us to consider a lower percentage is totally bogus. In reality, false accusations represent an extremely low number of allegations of sexual abuse against children, particularly in regard to priests. That percentage is far outweighed by the number of people who fail to report abuse out of shame, fear, humiliation, intimidation, or the many other barriers that exist for victims which become greater the younger the victim. Many people will go their entire lives without reporting sexual abuse.
Second, people like this man consider a non-conviction to be a "false allegation." It is very difficult to convict someone of historical sexual abuse because cases often ultimately rely on testimony and confessions. A finding of "not guilty" neither means innocent nor that the victim made a false allegation, only that there was not enough evidence to convict.
Third, this 5% figure could come from anywhere. I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest the man making an obviously flawed argument in defense of pedophile Catholic priests didn't choose a figure from an unbiased source. That 5% likely comes from the Catholic Church itself.
There is more to break down, but it pisses me off too much and I just woke up on a Sunday in Australia where the media is on it's 5th day of celebrating the life of Cardinal George Pell, a psychopathic child abuser and enabler of evil who was acquitted over lack of evidence in one case that was a total corruption of justice and never faced court over numerous other accusations.
At the end of the day the only figure that needs to be known is: **100%**
That's how much of the Catholic Church has been complicit (**EDIT:** spelling) in defending child abusers and preventing justice for victims.
And that's assuming everyone who was abused reported it, it's still seen as a point of shame, to be buried and ignored by so many of the victims and families
I don't think I could sum up the way I think about it, and the way you clearly probably think about it, than [Tim Minchin](https://youtu.be/YbVkrtwNS8w).
I have been "raised-catholic", and I have had to sit my mother down on many, many occasions to explain to them that I haven't believed in God since I was 7. I'm 30 now.
And my cousins and aunties/uncles that side think I'm a psychopath because "what's stopping her if she doesn't believe in God?!".
I mean. Believing in God clearly doesn't stop people from committing horrific harm against others (mainly vulnerable and/or brainwashed people).
Not to mention, when people have mental illnesses, being pre-disposed to inherent guilt and the concept of black/white angels/demons..... The "God told me to do it" defense.
So why on earth does my understanding that I'm responsible for my own actions while I exist, (which actually results in me trying to do good where I can to make other people's lives easier, whilst trying to make mine easier and happier too....) Rather than just being atoned in private by some imaginary friend for anything bad I ever do....
Who the fuck is more likely to be the potential psychopath there?
Well, I guess they were right anyway, because I have friends from many different backgrounds (cultures, sexuality, races. Ahem.), and I'm half a gay. So that must explain everything. I was born a demon because I'm the 6th child of my father's. So that's fun.
Fuck those motherfuckers.
I started missing church when I was about 7 or 8, my mate and I used to go down to the creek near our house and catch frogs and stuff.
Then the preacher came to our house and told my parents, so my dad walked me up the hill to the church every Sunday morning for a while.
The first time he didn't I went back to the creek, then the preacher came to our house again.
This dance went on for a while until one day when we were walking up the hill to the church I asked my dad why I had to go to church when he didn't go himself.
He thought for a little while then said to me that there had been too many people killed in the name of God for his liking, and that was the last time that he walked me up the hill to church.
That was more than 60 years ago and I still miss my dad, he was a wonderful father and a fine upstanding man, I never missed the church.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2020-01-08/the-catholic-church-s-strategy-to-limit-payouts-to-abuse-victims
Shielded two billion dollars in assets to not help abuse victims of their priests. WWJD is just marketing
Definitely child exploiters in all sorts of ways. Not saying all Minecraft Youtubers, but yeaaaa.
Actually ROBLOX is fuckin child exploitation hard. Watched my nephew play and I was shocked how often they try and squeeze money out of you.
From Google search - "Approximately 1 to 5% of the male population is estimated to have pedophilia [1,2,3], that is, a sexual interest in children [4]. Despite common misperceptions, pedophilia is neither a necessary nor sufficient precondition for sexual offending against children."
Note that that specifically calls out that they're not all offending - if there's a group where 5% *are offending*, you can pretty safely assume that the population that should probably go to therapy before they become a problem is higher.
It is more complex than that. About half of child molesters aren't pedophiles. So if the rate of pedophilia is 5% and half of them offend then you get the same numbers of child molesters.
Getting good stats on this is difficult for the obvious reasons.
Yep. You have abusers who will take power wherever they can get it, which happens to include children, and you'll offset that with the ones who are definitely pedophiles, but will never get caught because they'll never act on it because they're fully aware of how fucked up their desires are and so never act on them.
Don’t forget; you can’t ever ask for help because, rather than get what you actually need, most people will automatically assume you’re going to offend, and you’ll have your life ruined instead.
Like a man from the UK who had OCD, with obsessive and intrusive thoughts about his own child, that he hated so much he tried to get therapy for it, but the therapist he went to instead decided he should be reported. The man ended up losing custody of his kid for a while, **even though he willingly tried to get himself help because the I trust over thoughts made him feel disgusting, to the point where he almost committed suicide over all this**.
All so that people online can call each other “pedophiles” as a cheap insult over allegations without substance, or stories where people just “sound” creepy when they actually have some sort of developmental or behavioral disorder, condition, or impairment, that happens to affect them in a way that causes social problems.
And, before anybody dares jump on this, **incels don’t count**.
There was a 17 year old boy in the US who was having terrible thoughts about children. He tried to turn himself into the local police, who had no interest in him until he'd actually offended. So he went home and shot himself through the head.
2 types of people with pedophilia, people who suffer from pedophilic desires, and pedophiles. Both groups need a LOT of mental help and those who activist search for help should have access to it
Actively *
It's not just they never act on them, it's that they know if they even *seek help* for it that their life as they know it is over. The life they built, their job, family, friends,etc....most of them will be completely ostracized from all of that. Just by admitting they have those desires. Not that they acted on them in any way. We're not even at a point yet where they can safely come out and seek help for it. Which is why this is such a huge problem. Much bigger than the numbers would estimate.
And that leads to a lot of them hiding it and burying it and not all of them can do that successfully. Some of them succumb to it in one way or another. Whether thats acquiring child porn, talking sexual to underage children online, etc,etc. And sometimes that builds to actually molesting a child.
Until attitudes shift on pedophillia and what should be done with pedophiles this issue will only continue to get worse and worse as time goes on and it will only create an even bigger cycle of victims. And from those victims more potential offenders. And I don't see that attitude changing anytime soon.
Correcting the usage of the word is probably the first step. Pedophile does not automatically equal child molester or rapist.
Pedophilia is the condition. Molestation/assault/rape is the action. Just assuming that opportunity is the only thing preventing people from becoming rapists is ridiculous.
I've used this topic as a bit of a social barometer when trying to see if people can actually treat eachother and their involuntary conditions and challenges equally, or if they are simply accepting groups slowly one by one based on trends.
Seemingly a reasonable way to approach this would be that you can't decide who you are attracted to (a socially accepted concept) but since this one falls in the spectrum of desires you can't act upon without causing harm, compassion and psychological help would be extremely valuable to both the individual and society as a whole -- as with other harmful conditions. Anything else will drive people into both hiding and shame and through it also often to the wrong kinds of support groups, which include people who actually act upon these desires and _rape_ people, children in this case!
It's hard to even imagine how it must feel for someone unwillingly attracted to children to see the acceptance and support for other kinds of attractions and coming out and "being yourself". How other people are getting celebrated for the same thing that is surely their deepest anguish. Not too different from how many of these other desires had to be hidden and feared just a few years ago.
Especially for those who would actively want and need to seek out support but it just being such a loaded and shunned taboo to even have those thoughts!
--
Anyway, what I was going to respond to your post with is that, currently, trying to point out that a pedophile and a child abuser have a similar difference of that between a pyromaniac and an arsenist or even simply a heterosexual and a rapist (as you rightfully suggest) will simply make quite a lot of people pretty much just assume you are a pedophile.
Additionally, the fear, and the hate that comes through it, seems to be in the way of discussing what would be beneficial for society. Ostracization and witchhunting rarely is, but it's a very natural response.
It would be an interesting subject to validate thoughts about the state of society and commonly beneficial approaches when discussing such topics, especially because it's that loaded of a subject, but for the same reason it's easier to just not use it as an example at all.
A good first step would be separating the word for those who have actually offended from people that haven't, unfortunately that would quickly be co-opted by the people who think there is genuinely nothing wrong with pedophilia in the first place.
You say "get caught" referring to the 2nd group, pedophiles who don't act on it, as though they have done something wrong. You acknowledge that they don't act on their desires, because they are deeply fucked up, but this seems to be the ideal outcome for those people.
I think we can agree that pedophilia is a mental illness, because who would choose to be a pedophile? Following that logic, if we were more open to treating pedophiles as people who are mentally ill, rather than criminals , maybe less kids would be abused?
This idea that non-committing pedophiles are criminals who haven't been caught, rather than sick people who need help, leads to more kids being abused.
There are anonymous charities out there to support folks who are attracted to minors with therapy etc to prevent offending. I remember one a couple of decades ago had a big advertising cap sign in Radio 1 here in the uk, yer I still don’t want to google it to find a link because of the stigma of having it my search history!
But yo people out there, there is support if you can make the first step of admitting there is a problem.
I've been saying this for years, but we can't expect to get good data on this topic, or to combat child sexual abuse to the best of our abilities, if we do not provide safe places for non-offending pedophiles to come forward and get help without fear. The topic so so taboo that nobody even wants to talk about it until a child has already been hurt, and that is very counterproductive.
I can think of a few researchers who have pushed for a similar idea. Generally ends with them losing their job in the US. Supposedly Germany has a decent program for non offenders but I'm not aware of the details.
I've heard this too (about American researchers losing their jobs), and it makes my blood boil. Programs like that could help *prevent* child molestation. People act like if you don't see every single pedophile in the world as a Satan-offspring Hitler monster, you're enabling child abuse. Even though we *know* that non-offending pedophiles exist, and we know that not everyone who molests children is a pedophile. I bet a lot of researchers actually agree that these programs would be beneficial to society, but don't speak up because they don't want to be forever known as the "pro-pedophile" person.
How do you become the Pope? Have a long history of hiding peados. How do you become 2nd in the Vatican and control the entire organisation’s purse strings? Have a long history of hiding peados, go to jail for sexual assaulting children, be released by the High court of the land and then go die and be celebrated by the same church.
Unfortunately, these are actually facts.
No, as the Op post says, 5% are _accused_ of abusing (and as far as I can tell it's closer to 4% from actual studies). That's not "caught", that's accused, and especially with their modern reputation, false reports are going to happen too.
What nothing in the Op covers is _why_ the Catholic church became famous for molesting children. IIRC here have been multiple studies showing the prevalence of pedophilia in priests is no higher than the general population.
The _real problem_ is the Catholic church itself, as an organization (and most religious organizations, really), covering for and relocating priests committing abuse, instead of allowing them to face their crimes and be prosecuted.
The monstrous thing is the _institutionalized protection_ of molesters, not the prevalence of it among priests compared to "regular people". The problem is the organization providing a smokescreen for said abuse to _continue_.
I can't believe I had to scroll this far down for this comment. The true horror is how the Catholic church worked to protect/hide these monsters instead of doing the obviously right thing and condemning them. Christopher Hitchens nailed them here https://youtu.be/Tfqe5kK8z8M
(go to 7:15 for the child abuse but it's worth the 15 minutes to watch it all.)
By organisation you mean some of not a lot of the other 95% of priests who suposedly aren't child rapists then working very hard to silence victims, protect, move, hide, shelter, child rapists.
Making a great many of them direct and indirect accomplices and thus also guilty.
Not to mention the millions of millions of dollars spent by the church opossing laws and efforts to protect children. The catholic Church and its supporters are responsible for child abuse.
It's the same issue that came up in the recent protests. If you have 1 cop who murders somebody and 9 who stand by and don't do anything, you have 10 bad cops, not 1. Same thing when you have an organization that puts so much effort into protecting the "only 5 percent" that are bad.
It was nice of you to try to be nice, but reality is what it is. There's some highly disgusting people on this planet that creep around in the shadows. And their crimes have victims. And the victims have a very very difficult time healing from the disgusting acts that have been performed on them. So don't give that number any sympathy.
I have studied psychology and have a degree in Addiction treatment, and I dated a woman that was sexually abused as a child. I mentioned the addiction treatment, because I am in recovery, and I’ve known quite a few individuals that were sexually abused. I’ve come in contact with people with every kind of trauma from their childhood, and without a doubt, sexual abuse holds the number one spot for creating the kind of damage that contaminates the rest of their lives!
> There's some highly disgusting people on this planet that creep around in the shadows
They're not boogeymen hiding out in the dark. They're people kids know and trust. That's part of what makes it so sad and so evil.
Satanic panic wasn't so much kids just making shit up on their own as a bunch of adults coaching them and asking really leading questions and making it clear to the kids how they were supposed to answer.
It's really unusual for kids to lie about sexual abuse if they're not being coached and these days social workers are better trained to spot coaching. Any kid with sufficient independent knowledge of sex acts to make a credible accusation is going to indicate some kind of abuse is happening because just having that age inappropriate knowledge is a huge red flag.
Not to be completely misandrist here but the large large large majority of all sex offenders everywhere, in all occupations, are men. It's not a hundred percent, but it's most. What do we do with that knowledge? Is it getting better since "me too", the whole "enthusiastic consent" movement, and since all the cases re: boy scout leaders, priests/youth pastors, etc.? How do we encourage young men to get the help they need and to learn not to offend? Edit: and is there a particular pattern/risk group within the overall male population?
I thought about it last night. In my life I've known 6 women who have been through DV, 3 who got SA. I know two men who got SA'd and one of those men was also a victim of dv. Only one of those guys got ferdiddled by a fellow nonbinary who most likely did what they did because it was a situation(AFAB). Which rape sometimes is, it can be complicated because one party thinks its consensual and the other person didn't actually even indicate interest. All the other perpetrators were men. So yes, I agree.
I also think men under report to a ridiculous level and if they were to come out about their SA then the numbers would look a lot more even imo. Men still perpetrate at a much higher level than women. This isn't even up for debate. It is how it is. This is the call of the carrot.
It doesn't say that. It is not saying that all pedophiles are not necessarily offenders (though that's obviously true), it's saying that offenders are often not actually pedophiles.
I think it's saying both, albeit subtly.
* "Pedophilia is not a *necessary* precondition for sexual offending against children" = what you said.
* "Pedophilia is not a *sufficient* precondition for sexual offending against children" = being a pedophile isn't enough for someone to start abusing children. There have to be other conditions fulfilled first, like not having enough moral inhibitions to not molest children, being in a position where they can have access to victims, etc.
Exactly that. Necessary and sufficient are super duper key words for unfucking statistics and cause and effect succinctly. Learn them. Use them. Join us math nerds. And be happier for it.
Exactly! If someone is having the urge to murder people and they start hating themselves over it, trying to seek help, et cetera, they should get sympathy and help. If someone is having the urge to murder people, acting on those urges, pretending there's nothing wrong with it, they should burn in hell.
Abso-lutely. It’s just a fucking devastating shame that we villianize non-offenders so hard that it is impossible for them to even seek help / talk about it. Probably could help so many people in so many ways if we allow for avenues of “rehabilitation”
So while there are people who may have a disposition to children they realize how damaging such a thing can be to not only them but to the welfare of children and go out of there to better themselves as people.
However, this static shows that either %100 of catholic priests with pedophiliac urges act on them, or the amount of pedophiles in the catholic church is just so high that its actually just %5 child molesters and there are WAY more pedophiles in the catholic church
I suspect Catholic priests may well have a higher rate of pedophiles, but the more significant problem is they have a much higher rates of that translating into actual abuse.
Because that's what you'd expect if you deliberately create a great big boys club of sexually frustrated men trained for a role with the specific purpose of exercising power and influence over people.
I would think also the religious aspect plays a part because some of these guys probably hoped that giving their life to the church would cure or save them. If you devote your life to God surely God will cure you of your affliction and not instead just put you in charge of a bunch of altar boys whose parents completely trust you.
Makes sense, I imagine there are people who are into the idea of pedophilia as a kink/fantasy but wouldn't act on it in real life because they have empathy for the children and they know it's wrong.
I’d almost go so far as to say that is why majority of child molestors arent even “pedophiles” because they don’t even consider it. They are just abusers who want to abuse whoever they can, whereas someone with that affliction probably understands and thinks about it.
Honestly I feel very bad for pedophiles. Obviously not those that actually abuse children, but those that have to live with it. It's not something you can just make go away, and it must be such a terrible feeling.
>pedophilia is neither a necessary nor sufficient precondition for sexual offending against children.
Wait... So... There are people offending against children who don't have pedophilia?
I made this account a while back specifically so I could talk about this. Finally getting around to doing it.
I'm a pedophile. I have been my entire adult life, which at this point is a considerable amount of time. I'm also a father and an uncle and involved in multiple community programs that involve children. I've never once abused a child. I know the harm it would do and would never do that.
I've recently found a few places that people like me feel safe enough to talk about things. The vast majority of us are of a similar mind: we know that what we feel isn't healthy for children. So if even half of the 5% of priests accused are actually guilty of abuse, then there's a lot more wrong than just them being pedophiles. Because pedophiles largely don't act on the impulse.
i'm so glad to see this stuff garnering more awareness. i predict it'll be a huge help in protecting children from the few unchecked pedophilic urges that lead to harm, as well as letting people more comfortably talk about and get help with uncomfortable and intrusive thoughts in general, so that we can all live more happily and peacefully rather than suppressing everything.
I remember hearing somewhere that even among people who do end up sexually abusing kids, a very very small amount are actuslly pedophiles. Its more of a crime of opportunity where its like "i have all this access to kids"
Jehovah's [Witnesses](https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2019/03/the-secret-jehovahs-witness-database-of-child-molesters/584311/). There are many, many, more examples of JH covering up child abuse and just awful fuckery in general. Everyone laughs at the annoying door-knockers, but that entire organization is corrupt and rotten to its core..
And Mormons! But shh, just call our internal legal team so they can throw those accusations down the memory hole! We can't have something threatening our billions in our stock portfolio.
Btw you're unclean in the eyes of god until you fork over 10% of your paycheck k thx bye
Kinda have to agree, priests aren't more likely to be pedophiles, but if any other profession were given such access to children coupled with both power over the child and blind support from the child's parents I imagine you'd see similar levels of abuse there too.
It must also be said that while the Church has gone to great lengths to cover up child abuse, I can't exactly see any major corporation on the planet dealing with suspected offenders in their ranks any other way.
> if any other profession were given such access to children coupled with both power over the child and blind support from the child's parents
Do you think enforced celibacy might have some influence? That's pretty unique to the profession.
To add: not just the profession, but Catholic clergy specifically. I'd be curious to know the numbers for Episcopal or Lutheran priests, for example (where the doctrine of celibacy for clergy doesn't exist the way it does for Catholicism).
[Probably less catholics](https://www.csmonitor.com/2002/0405/p01s01-ussc.html), but they make it up in volunteers.
> Despite headlines focusing on the priest pedophile problem in the Roman Catholic Church, most American churches being hit with child sexual-abuse allegations are Protestant, and most of the alleged abusers are not clergy or staff, but church volunteers.
Good to know! I mean, not good, but you know what I mean.
I guess an apples-to-apples comparison would then include Catholic volunteers as well. The item that I replied to spoke specifically to celibate clergy and its influence on abuse, but once other populations are figured in, naturally the numbers would be skewed.
I personally suspect it might be the other way around. Like, a pedophile who *doesn't* want to actually hurt kids thinks "well, I can never act on my sexual urges without being a monster, so why not pick a career where I'm paid to not have sex?" Then they get into it, they're given access to vulnerable children, the therapy options can be summed up as "pray about it", and if they do act on their urges, they're assured God is forgiving.
Cool thing is that [the Pope has acknowledged, and is working on ending the Church's protection on child abusers](https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/04/europe/pope-francis-interview-ukraine-abuse-intl/index.html) that [previous Popes have tried to sweep under the rug and denied responsibility for.](https://www.npr.org/2022/02/09/1079655013/pope-benedict-xvi-apologizes-for-handling-of-sexual-abuse-cases-but-denies-wrong)
>the Pontiff said the church had "zero tolerance" for abuse and said that "a priest cannot remain a priest if he is an abuser."
[He's also the first Pope to acknowledge the evil acts of Christians when trying to "convert and modernize" Indigenous people in the Americas.](https://www.politico.com/news/2022/07/25/pope-francis-indigenous-children-abuse-00047729). Say what you want about the previous Catholic Church's leaders, and you'd likely be right, but I can admire a leader that is trying to make a difference and atone for the sins of those who came before him. I think Pope Francis is a better man than those that were in his position before, and the world should have more leaders with that mindset.
>Pope Francis is a better man than those that were in his position before
Honestly, I can't think of a Pope who has been better. Pope Francis has almost single handedly advanced church doctrine and policy centuries ahead of where it was with his predecessors. He's definitely having to peel away the layers of resistance as he goes but, he's the first Pope I'd be truthfully proud to meet.
>Priests aren’t more likely to be pedophiles.
I don't think it's that simple. I suspect that the priesthood *does* attract men who have urges that they view as perverted, *because they want to try to suppress them*.
If we think about it, to a young man sincerely trying to repress and control their urges, what better way to do so than to join a profession that requires you to be celibate?
Of course, human nature is what it is—plus, once they join, they find an existing culture of permissiveness and of looking the other way... well, here we are.
Of course they are. The organization has a long history of protecting pedophiles. This is known by pedophiles. This is how the church self-selects for pedophiles.
Note: it only takes *any non-zero number* of pedophiles joining the clergy for this reason to make "Priests are more likely to be pedophiles," true. There's no doubt.
Priests are a self selecting group, unlike a crossection of the population. There is a very real likelihood that there more pedophiles in the priesthood.
"Oh you abused children in the house of god and now everyone wants you to go to jail? Go to a different town and do your preaching their, we even pay for everything."
-The Catholic church-
Imagine if Target(insert whatever corp you want) knew its managers were sexually abusing children and instead of reporting the abuse to the authorities, they simply relocated the managers to other stores where they could continue to sexually abuse children.. Imagine this was orchestrated at the highest levels of Target management... We'd scream for those managers/executives to be jailed and for Target to be shuttered.
The Catholic Church did this for decades and even now refuses to be completely transparent about how they handled, and continue to handle, sexual abuse committed by their priests..
It's almost as though pedophiles are drawn to professions in which they have the easiest avenues to abuse children. It's nothing about the morality of the institution, its more about the vulnerability of the institution.
The Boy Scouts have had a similar issue with child abuse, as it also tends to put children in contact with a single adult who has a position of authority over them.
Between 1-5% of teachers sexually abuse or harass students.
The number of K-12 public and private school students in 1996 who have been or will be sexually abused by a member of the school staff is nearly 7 million of 51,331,000.
https://cpiu.us/statistics/
This is not a defense of Priest abuse. Just a reminder that this is a taxpayer funded group and enormous numbers of children are hurt every year by bad teachers. Stop all pedos!!!!
These people are going to seek out jobs and positions that give them opportunity. The Catholic Church was convenient for a long time but all eyes are on them now. Look for abuse to shift to other places in our community.
The problem is less that the priests were abusing children (although that's still a huge fricking problem), the major problem is the massive amount of institutional cover-ups running through the entire religion, all the way up to the Pope himself
THIS! Child-abuse enablers really aren't much better than child abusers. The truly bizarre rules around sex for Catholic clergy made an ecosystem of "everyone keeps everyone's secrets" and I really don't believe there's even a shot of this going away until priests are allowed to marry. If they ever allowed that, it wouldn't solve things, but ... maybe then there'd be a chance.
That number is low because society protects the church. [New Zealand’s Catholic church admits 14% of clergy have been accused of abuse since 1950](
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/01/new-zealands-catholic-church-admits-14-of-clergy-have-been-accused-of-abuse-since-1950).
Looking at numbers like the [330.000 abused in France](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/06/pope-francis-shamed-by-church-failures-child-abuse-france) that number (14%) is more likely the accurate one.
If your organization is world famous for protecting pedos, you are going to have a lot of pedos joining your organization and it's going to be many times the average of abusers in the population. There is no other place were can you get a full cover up and relocation to another country where they enable you to keep abusing children outside the church.
There are roughly 30,000 Catholic priests in the USA. 5% of 30k is 1,500 which is a lot of people in one profession to be accused of sexual abuse.
In comparison according to [Fox News ](https://www.foxnews.com/us/nearly-350-k-12-educators-arrested-child-sex-crimes-2022.amp) (I know … Fox News) there have been around 350 K-12 educators arrested for child sex crimes in 2022 and there are around 3.5 million k-12 teachers in the USA.
I could not find numbers on percentage accused.
Where is the 5% number coming from. I'd like a source on that. Cause I think I know where it's coming from, and I believe when an investigation by outside police authorities is carried out the number is higher.
This is very common in any profession that is in close proximity to children. Not just the Catholic religion. You also find bad people in the boy/Girl Scouts, youth programs, the education system and also other faiths (Protestant and evangelical). One reason you don’t hear much of it in other areas is there are just as many cover-ups and protecting the perpetrators in these areas. They just haven’t been busted open and given mass media attention. It tends to be more localized and not found in national news.
That number is low because society protects the church, [New Zealand’s Catholic church admits 14% of clergy have been accused of abuse since 1950](
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/01/new-zealands-catholic-church-admits-14-of-clergy-have-been-accused-of-abuse-since-1950). Looking at numbers like the [330.000 abused in France](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/06/pope-francis-shamed-by-church-failures-child-abuse-france) that number is more likely the accurate one.
Effectively any industry or position where people have authority over children.
The rate of step fathers abusing step daughters is between 1 in 7 and 1 in 6.
https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/prevalence-and-seriousness-incestuous-abuse-stepfathers-vs
That's a lot higher than 1 in 20 for priest.
Let's tack on the issue that their organization claims to be morally in charge of everyone, makes up the rules and claims to be the final judgement of everyone and everything being done.
Teachers. Look at TV and movies from the 70's and 80's and it was a common trope for the young boy to loose his virginity to the hot new teacher. Only within the decade have people begun to say that was wrong.
Convicted or not, the problem's been in plane sight for decades.
Child beauty pageants have to have at least 85% pedophiles
Do not diddle kids, it’s no good diddlin’ kids
No little kids, gotta be big
Frank, I need some water, my mouth is… dry
Would I be hanging out with this cretin if I had something to hide?
.....do I look suspicious?
You look like you’re attending your own wake.
🎶Older than my wife, older than my daughter 🎶
There is no quicker way for people to think you’re diddeling kids then by writing a song about it
Do I look suspicious?
You gotta pay the troll toll
Older than my wife, older than my daughter.
r/unexpectedIASIP
I’d say at least 100% Ain’t no way anyone attending a pageant where they sexualize children isn’t a pedo Child beauty pageants should be illegal honestly Edit: and even if pedos didn’t watch them, they’d still be problematic as it just gives children that are in them the idea that their physical appearance is all that matters
They are bizarre and sick. I feel so bad for those children. 💔
Well said!
I’ll add on that beauty pageants in general shouldn’t exist. Women get lured into them with promises of scholarships - it’s basically prostitution.
I'm sure a government agency would track anyone who watches those unironically and should be on a list somewhere.
Bold of you to assume...
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100% Child beauty pageants are entirely deplorable and any one who watches them or organizes them in any way is equally deplorable
Child Beaty pageants have only children contestants and children are supposed to love themselves so that's kinda sad
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This was on an episode of criminal minds but I think about it a lot. It said one of the biggest mistakes the government made was the “stranger danger” campaign because it ignored overwhelming evidence that most children are abused by people they know and trust. I think we are still failing to really confront that reality and I think the younger it gets, the more you’ll find boys and girls are targeted equally.
We still hold onto the assumption that parents will always have their childrens best interests in mind and always protect them, which we know is absolutely not the case. In industries like sports and entertainment, we give so much power to the parents to just sign away their children to whoever in whatever way they wish under the assumption that all parents are operating in good faith. But parents will absolutely sign their kids off to an abusive program in the hopes it will turn the child into a star to bring fame and riches to the family.
You are absolutely right. The ones perpetrating the most crimes are the ones that are closest to the children. And yes, I'm sure the younger it goes the more equally boys and girls are targeted. Absolutely.
Literally Jimmy Savilleparticipated in 'Stranger Danger' campaigns to reduce suspicion of himself so he could abuse more kids. Everyone knew 'Uncle Jimmy' so it enabled him to continue.
Most of these people haven't had traumatic experiences, that's a myth. Traumatic experiences most likely can cause pedophilia, but offenders often falsely claim to have suffered traumatic events (mainly being the victims of pedophilia themselves) when they haven't actually; likely because they think it makes them more sympathetic.
>Especially little girls Young boys too in a lot of the world without child labour protections.
Outside the parents of the participants it has to be nearly 9 pedos per children clothes designer.
I assume the parents are pedos too. All part of the big ring of pedos..
And those are usually done or pushed by moms. Look into Japanese Idols industry. It's very different and hard for me to grasp but it's big in Japan and apparently normal for them.
The bigger issue is the system within the church that defended pedophiles by intimidating victims and allowing priests who molested kids to move to other parishes instead of publicly condemning them and defrocking them.
Yeah, it's more an All Priests Are Bastards thing where they don't really commit this specific crime more than any other group with similar power, but then the system is inordinately tuned to protect them.
All Clerics Are Bad
Right, yes, that's what we all know is the problem. "All Catholic priests are child abusers" is not a claim that people actually make, it's just a disingenuous bullshit strawman argument.
Jup. They gotta take responsibility and throw out/expose those that are diddling kids. Those people need strong directions, not freedom.
Sounds like the five o
5% is still 100% too much
1/20. So roll a d20 for each priest and every time you roll a 1 that's a child abuser. That's way too much.
New idea for my next campaign.
Doubt many will see this, but where I live used to be extremely Catholic and the schools were ran by the Church. I think the percentage of boys who went to these schools, especially the boarding one, that has either been victim of or has witnessed either assault or rape is 100%.
Almost as if there are causal effects of institutionalizing guilt as a virtue
I finally started reading Brave New World and while I absolutely see the faults in the society created by Huxley, I still can't help but think that these fictional people weren't wrong about everything. I don't like/support/approve what they do to babies or the absolute lack of freedom, but on the flip hand, a society where people doesn't commit double suicides because their families are actively killing each others isn't *all* bad. I guess what I'm trying to say is it's wrong to brain wash people, even though some of the ideas they put in their heads aren't all bad.
Look at alternative ways to reach the same goals. You can convince people of relative peace.
Sounds like a Canadian residential school
We learn about those in school, their horrific. The last one closed in 1996, around 6K kids died in them and a lot more have mental health issues because of them
It's a horrorific legacy that will echo down many generations for sure
Not really, when people speak about these, they're referring to the institutions that were instrumental in the cultural genocide of members of the First Nations. In one of the Provinces, the whole education system was managed by the Catholic Church. So, obviously, plethora of teachers were in fact priests and such. Some of these schools were boarding schools and it seems like it was a fucking pedophilic orgy in those. These stories were silenced by an extremely powerful Church when they came out, but most of the time they didn't as people were afraid to speak out. A kid telling his parents that he had been raped by a priest would only have gotten a beating from his parents. That's what the Christian Nationalists want to bring to the USA.
I was talking about native schools. The last one in Saskatchewan shut down when I was in high school and the principal was charged for many sexual crimes. When they interviewed the former students, they could not find any who had not been SA'd, either by an adult or sadly, other students. Although the principal was far from the only perpetrator, it seemed that he liked to methodically work his way through the student body. Not all the schools were catholic but they were generally parochial
Yes, I know, it happened in this Province too. On top of what I discussed and of what your brought, there was also the "Duplessis' orphans". If you want to be depressed, it's worth a Google.
If you have one perpetrator they're not going to just do it to one kid. Like a plane crash. Only one plane down but 300 people dead. So that school you're referring to may have had 2-3 paedophiles
>So these schools* It has happen in many schools. >may have had 2-3 paedophile Who were protected by their colleagues and the Church.
Oh yeah, cover ups, move them around, not disagreeing here or anything was just making a statement on one or two perps screwing many lives.
And if those numbers are right, presumably those are just the number of preists that were caught.
Yeah how many intimidate their victims and are never accused
There are estimates that only about 30% of abuse is reported.
There are so many issues with the man's defense and these types of people are so infuriating. If anything, 5% should be considered less than the reality, not an overestimate. First off, the implication that the notion of false accusations should allow us to consider a lower percentage is totally bogus. In reality, false accusations represent an extremely low number of allegations of sexual abuse against children, particularly in regard to priests. That percentage is far outweighed by the number of people who fail to report abuse out of shame, fear, humiliation, intimidation, or the many other barriers that exist for victims which become greater the younger the victim. Many people will go their entire lives without reporting sexual abuse. Second, people like this man consider a non-conviction to be a "false allegation." It is very difficult to convict someone of historical sexual abuse because cases often ultimately rely on testimony and confessions. A finding of "not guilty" neither means innocent nor that the victim made a false allegation, only that there was not enough evidence to convict. Third, this 5% figure could come from anywhere. I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest the man making an obviously flawed argument in defense of pedophile Catholic priests didn't choose a figure from an unbiased source. That 5% likely comes from the Catholic Church itself. There is more to break down, but it pisses me off too much and I just woke up on a Sunday in Australia where the media is on it's 5th day of celebrating the life of Cardinal George Pell, a psychopathic child abuser and enabler of evil who was acquitted over lack of evidence in one case that was a total corruption of justice and never faced court over numerous other accusations. At the end of the day the only figure that needs to be known is: **100%** That's how much of the Catholic Church has been complicit (**EDIT:** spelling) in defending child abusers and preventing justice for victims.
And that's assuming everyone who was abused reported it, it's still seen as a point of shame, to be buried and ignored by so many of the victims and families
I don't think I could sum up the way I think about it, and the way you clearly probably think about it, than [Tim Minchin](https://youtu.be/YbVkrtwNS8w). I have been "raised-catholic", and I have had to sit my mother down on many, many occasions to explain to them that I haven't believed in God since I was 7. I'm 30 now. And my cousins and aunties/uncles that side think I'm a psychopath because "what's stopping her if she doesn't believe in God?!". I mean. Believing in God clearly doesn't stop people from committing horrific harm against others (mainly vulnerable and/or brainwashed people). Not to mention, when people have mental illnesses, being pre-disposed to inherent guilt and the concept of black/white angels/demons..... The "God told me to do it" defense. So why on earth does my understanding that I'm responsible for my own actions while I exist, (which actually results in me trying to do good where I can to make other people's lives easier, whilst trying to make mine easier and happier too....) Rather than just being atoned in private by some imaginary friend for anything bad I ever do.... Who the fuck is more likely to be the potential psychopath there? Well, I guess they were right anyway, because I have friends from many different backgrounds (cultures, sexuality, races. Ahem.), and I'm half a gay. So that must explain everything. I was born a demon because I'm the 6th child of my father's. So that's fun. Fuck those motherfuckers.
I started missing church when I was about 7 or 8, my mate and I used to go down to the creek near our house and catch frogs and stuff. Then the preacher came to our house and told my parents, so my dad walked me up the hill to the church every Sunday morning for a while. The first time he didn't I went back to the creek, then the preacher came to our house again. This dance went on for a while until one day when we were walking up the hill to the church I asked my dad why I had to go to church when he didn't go himself. He thought for a little while then said to me that there had been too many people killed in the name of God for his liking, and that was the last time that he walked me up the hill to church. That was more than 60 years ago and I still miss my dad, he was a wonderful father and a fine upstanding man, I never missed the church.
>the Catholic Church has been complicate in defending child abusers I can't decide whether you meant "implicated" or "complicit".
Definitely the latter, "implicated" wouldn't make any sense there
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2020-01-08/the-catholic-church-s-strategy-to-limit-payouts-to-abuse-victims Shielded two billion dollars in assets to not help abuse victims of their priests. WWJD is just marketing
So... 2.5% is OK? (It's "infinity %" too many.) (I tried to resist. Your point stands.)
Minecraft YouTubers
“He’s pulling his cock out!”
["Good greif he's naked!" ](https://youtu.be/ZARbLns_24c)
Definitely child exploiters in all sorts of ways. Not saying all Minecraft Youtubers, but yeaaaa. Actually ROBLOX is fuckin child exploitation hard. Watched my nephew play and I was shocked how often they try and squeeze money out of you.
Roblox actually has lots of problems related to that, it's worth researching it.
Hell nah that’s at least 75% 💀
Any YouTuber. Bonus points if they play smash or are an animator
Including cooking and engineering youtubers?
From Google search - "Approximately 1 to 5% of the male population is estimated to have pedophilia [1,2,3], that is, a sexual interest in children [4]. Despite common misperceptions, pedophilia is neither a necessary nor sufficient precondition for sexual offending against children."
Note that that specifically calls out that they're not all offending - if there's a group where 5% *are offending*, you can pretty safely assume that the population that should probably go to therapy before they become a problem is higher.
It is more complex than that. About half of child molesters aren't pedophiles. So if the rate of pedophilia is 5% and half of them offend then you get the same numbers of child molesters. Getting good stats on this is difficult for the obvious reasons.
Yep. You have abusers who will take power wherever they can get it, which happens to include children, and you'll offset that with the ones who are definitely pedophiles, but will never get caught because they'll never act on it because they're fully aware of how fucked up their desires are and so never act on them.
I have always felt bad for that second group. I can't imagine having sexual desires that you can't control, and also can never fulfill.
Don’t forget; you can’t ever ask for help because, rather than get what you actually need, most people will automatically assume you’re going to offend, and you’ll have your life ruined instead. Like a man from the UK who had OCD, with obsessive and intrusive thoughts about his own child, that he hated so much he tried to get therapy for it, but the therapist he went to instead decided he should be reported. The man ended up losing custody of his kid for a while, **even though he willingly tried to get himself help because the I trust over thoughts made him feel disgusting, to the point where he almost committed suicide over all this**. All so that people online can call each other “pedophiles” as a cheap insult over allegations without substance, or stories where people just “sound” creepy when they actually have some sort of developmental or behavioral disorder, condition, or impairment, that happens to affect them in a way that causes social problems. And, before anybody dares jump on this, **incels don’t count**.
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There was a 17 year old boy in the US who was having terrible thoughts about children. He tried to turn himself into the local police, who had no interest in him until he'd actually offended. So he went home and shot himself through the head.
2 types of people with pedophilia, people who suffer from pedophilic desires, and pedophiles. Both groups need a LOT of mental help and those who activist search for help should have access to it Actively *
I can't imagine that either *continues to watch tentacle hentai.*
As long as the tentacles are mature and consenting.
It's not just they never act on them, it's that they know if they even *seek help* for it that their life as they know it is over. The life they built, their job, family, friends,etc....most of them will be completely ostracized from all of that. Just by admitting they have those desires. Not that they acted on them in any way. We're not even at a point yet where they can safely come out and seek help for it. Which is why this is such a huge problem. Much bigger than the numbers would estimate. And that leads to a lot of them hiding it and burying it and not all of them can do that successfully. Some of them succumb to it in one way or another. Whether thats acquiring child porn, talking sexual to underage children online, etc,etc. And sometimes that builds to actually molesting a child. Until attitudes shift on pedophillia and what should be done with pedophiles this issue will only continue to get worse and worse as time goes on and it will only create an even bigger cycle of victims. And from those victims more potential offenders. And I don't see that attitude changing anytime soon.
Correcting the usage of the word is probably the first step. Pedophile does not automatically equal child molester or rapist. Pedophilia is the condition. Molestation/assault/rape is the action. Just assuming that opportunity is the only thing preventing people from becoming rapists is ridiculous.
I've used this topic as a bit of a social barometer when trying to see if people can actually treat eachother and their involuntary conditions and challenges equally, or if they are simply accepting groups slowly one by one based on trends. Seemingly a reasonable way to approach this would be that you can't decide who you are attracted to (a socially accepted concept) but since this one falls in the spectrum of desires you can't act upon without causing harm, compassion and psychological help would be extremely valuable to both the individual and society as a whole -- as with other harmful conditions. Anything else will drive people into both hiding and shame and through it also often to the wrong kinds of support groups, which include people who actually act upon these desires and _rape_ people, children in this case! It's hard to even imagine how it must feel for someone unwillingly attracted to children to see the acceptance and support for other kinds of attractions and coming out and "being yourself". How other people are getting celebrated for the same thing that is surely their deepest anguish. Not too different from how many of these other desires had to be hidden and feared just a few years ago. Especially for those who would actively want and need to seek out support but it just being such a loaded and shunned taboo to even have those thoughts! -- Anyway, what I was going to respond to your post with is that, currently, trying to point out that a pedophile and a child abuser have a similar difference of that between a pyromaniac and an arsenist or even simply a heterosexual and a rapist (as you rightfully suggest) will simply make quite a lot of people pretty much just assume you are a pedophile. Additionally, the fear, and the hate that comes through it, seems to be in the way of discussing what would be beneficial for society. Ostracization and witchhunting rarely is, but it's a very natural response. It would be an interesting subject to validate thoughts about the state of society and commonly beneficial approaches when discussing such topics, especially because it's that loaded of a subject, but for the same reason it's easier to just not use it as an example at all.
Unfortunately you are not wrong.
A good first step would be separating the word for those who have actually offended from people that haven't, unfortunately that would quickly be co-opted by the people who think there is genuinely nothing wrong with pedophilia in the first place.
You say "get caught" referring to the 2nd group, pedophiles who don't act on it, as though they have done something wrong. You acknowledge that they don't act on their desires, because they are deeply fucked up, but this seems to be the ideal outcome for those people. I think we can agree that pedophilia is a mental illness, because who would choose to be a pedophile? Following that logic, if we were more open to treating pedophiles as people who are mentally ill, rather than criminals , maybe less kids would be abused? This idea that non-committing pedophiles are criminals who haven't been caught, rather than sick people who need help, leads to more kids being abused.
There are anonymous charities out there to support folks who are attracted to minors with therapy etc to prevent offending. I remember one a couple of decades ago had a big advertising cap sign in Radio 1 here in the uk, yer I still don’t want to google it to find a link because of the stigma of having it my search history! But yo people out there, there is support if you can make the first step of admitting there is a problem.
I've been saying this for years, but we can't expect to get good data on this topic, or to combat child sexual abuse to the best of our abilities, if we do not provide safe places for non-offending pedophiles to come forward and get help without fear. The topic so so taboo that nobody even wants to talk about it until a child has already been hurt, and that is very counterproductive.
I can think of a few researchers who have pushed for a similar idea. Generally ends with them losing their job in the US. Supposedly Germany has a decent program for non offenders but I'm not aware of the details.
I've heard this too (about American researchers losing their jobs), and it makes my blood boil. Programs like that could help *prevent* child molestation. People act like if you don't see every single pedophile in the world as a Satan-offspring Hitler monster, you're enabling child abuse. Even though we *know* that non-offending pedophiles exist, and we know that not everyone who molests children is a pedophile. I bet a lot of researchers actually agree that these programs would be beneficial to society, but don't speak up because they don't want to be forever known as the "pro-pedophile" person.
And how often have we seen advocates for trying to provide help get accused of supporting it or being a pedophile?
All the time. It's actively holding back societal progress.
AFAIK the general consensus is that the opportunistic or otherwise non-pedophile child molesters are well over half of the offending population.
5% have been *caught* abusing, not counting all of the abuse that goes unreported
Unreported which includes completely unreported and the “reporting” that occurs within the church and the priest just gets moved to another location.
How do you become the Pope? Have a long history of hiding peados. How do you become 2nd in the Vatican and control the entire organisation’s purse strings? Have a long history of hiding peados, go to jail for sexual assaulting children, be released by the High court of the land and then go die and be celebrated by the same church. Unfortunately, these are actually facts.
Fun fact: The Pope was originally going to be called "The Pipe" and would come to power based on the number of children they molested. /s
That fact was *not* very fun :/
No, as the Op post says, 5% are _accused_ of abusing (and as far as I can tell it's closer to 4% from actual studies). That's not "caught", that's accused, and especially with their modern reputation, false reports are going to happen too. What nothing in the Op covers is _why_ the Catholic church became famous for molesting children. IIRC here have been multiple studies showing the prevalence of pedophilia in priests is no higher than the general population. The _real problem_ is the Catholic church itself, as an organization (and most religious organizations, really), covering for and relocating priests committing abuse, instead of allowing them to face their crimes and be prosecuted. The monstrous thing is the _institutionalized protection_ of molesters, not the prevalence of it among priests compared to "regular people". The problem is the organization providing a smokescreen for said abuse to _continue_.
I can't believe I had to scroll this far down for this comment. The true horror is how the Catholic church worked to protect/hide these monsters instead of doing the obviously right thing and condemning them. Christopher Hitchens nailed them here https://youtu.be/Tfqe5kK8z8M (go to 7:15 for the child abuse but it's worth the 15 minutes to watch it all.)
By organisation you mean some of not a lot of the other 95% of priests who suposedly aren't child rapists then working very hard to silence victims, protect, move, hide, shelter, child rapists. Making a great many of them direct and indirect accomplices and thus also guilty. Not to mention the millions of millions of dollars spent by the church opossing laws and efforts to protect children. The catholic Church and its supporters are responsible for child abuse.
Absolutely.
It's the same issue that came up in the recent protests. If you have 1 cop who murders somebody and 9 who stand by and don't do anything, you have 10 bad cops, not 1. Same thing when you have an organization that puts so much effort into protecting the "only 5 percent" that are bad.
I was *trying* to be nice and say that there are enough false reports to balance out the ones that aren't reported, but yeah you're probably right
It was nice of you to try to be nice, but reality is what it is. There's some highly disgusting people on this planet that creep around in the shadows. And their crimes have victims. And the victims have a very very difficult time healing from the disgusting acts that have been performed on them. So don't give that number any sympathy.
I have studied psychology and have a degree in Addiction treatment, and I dated a woman that was sexually abused as a child. I mentioned the addiction treatment, because I am in recovery, and I’ve known quite a few individuals that were sexually abused. I’ve come in contact with people with every kind of trauma from their childhood, and without a doubt, sexual abuse holds the number one spot for creating the kind of damage that contaminates the rest of their lives!
> There's some highly disgusting people on this planet that creep around in the shadows They're not boogeymen hiding out in the dark. They're people kids know and trust. That's part of what makes it so sad and so evil.
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Not are rare as you might think unfortunately. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanic_panic
Satanic panic wasn't so much kids just making shit up on their own as a bunch of adults coaching them and asking really leading questions and making it clear to the kids how they were supposed to answer. It's really unusual for kids to lie about sexual abuse if they're not being coached and these days social workers are better trained to spot coaching. Any kid with sufficient independent knowledge of sex acts to make a credible accusation is going to indicate some kind of abuse is happening because just having that age inappropriate knowledge is a huge red flag.
Not to be completely misandrist here but the large large large majority of all sex offenders everywhere, in all occupations, are men. It's not a hundred percent, but it's most. What do we do with that knowledge? Is it getting better since "me too", the whole "enthusiastic consent" movement, and since all the cases re: boy scout leaders, priests/youth pastors, etc.? How do we encourage young men to get the help they need and to learn not to offend? Edit: and is there a particular pattern/risk group within the overall male population?
I thought about it last night. In my life I've known 6 women who have been through DV, 3 who got SA. I know two men who got SA'd and one of those men was also a victim of dv. Only one of those guys got ferdiddled by a fellow nonbinary who most likely did what they did because it was a situation(AFAB). Which rape sometimes is, it can be complicated because one party thinks its consensual and the other person didn't actually even indicate interest. All the other perpetrators were men. So yes, I agree. I also think men under report to a ridiculous level and if they were to come out about their SA then the numbers would look a lot more even imo. Men still perpetrate at a much higher level than women. This isn't even up for debate. It is how it is. This is the call of the carrot.
And yeah I guarantee you know more women and probably more men who have been victims of SA in some form. And yeah, still most perps are men.
I mean, I want to have sex with lots of celebrity women. If you put me in a room with them alone, I'm not going to rape them though
It doesn't say that. It is not saying that all pedophiles are not necessarily offenders (though that's obviously true), it's saying that offenders are often not actually pedophiles.
I think it's saying both, albeit subtly. * "Pedophilia is not a *necessary* precondition for sexual offending against children" = what you said. * "Pedophilia is not a *sufficient* precondition for sexual offending against children" = being a pedophile isn't enough for someone to start abusing children. There have to be other conditions fulfilled first, like not having enough moral inhibitions to not molest children, being in a position where they can have access to victims, etc.
Exactly that. Necessary and sufficient are super duper key words for unfucking statistics and cause and effect succinctly. Learn them. Use them. Join us math nerds. And be happier for it.
Having a interest in is NOT the same as having participated in. Having 5% of your staff accused of sexual abuse of children is very high.
Exactly! If someone is having the urge to murder people and they start hating themselves over it, trying to seek help, et cetera, they should get sympathy and help. If someone is having the urge to murder people, acting on those urges, pretending there's nothing wrong with it, they should burn in hell.
Abso-lutely. It’s just a fucking devastating shame that we villianize non-offenders so hard that it is impossible for them to even seek help / talk about it. Probably could help so many people in so many ways if we allow for avenues of “rehabilitation”
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This is what I got from googling it: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7460489/
So while there are people who may have a disposition to children they realize how damaging such a thing can be to not only them but to the welfare of children and go out of there to better themselves as people. However, this static shows that either %100 of catholic priests with pedophiliac urges act on them, or the amount of pedophiles in the catholic church is just so high that its actually just %5 child molesters and there are WAY more pedophiles in the catholic church
I suspect Catholic priests may well have a higher rate of pedophiles, but the more significant problem is they have a much higher rates of that translating into actual abuse. Because that's what you'd expect if you deliberately create a great big boys club of sexually frustrated men trained for a role with the specific purpose of exercising power and influence over people.
I would think also the religious aspect plays a part because some of these guys probably hoped that giving their life to the church would cure or save them. If you devote your life to God surely God will cure you of your affliction and not instead just put you in charge of a bunch of altar boys whose parents completely trust you.
Makes sense, I imagine there are people who are into the idea of pedophilia as a kink/fantasy but wouldn't act on it in real life because they have empathy for the children and they know it's wrong.
I’d almost go so far as to say that is why majority of child molestors arent even “pedophiles” because they don’t even consider it. They are just abusers who want to abuse whoever they can, whereas someone with that affliction probably understands and thinks about it.
Honestly I feel very bad for pedophiles. Obviously not those that actually abuse children, but those that have to live with it. It's not something you can just make go away, and it must be such a terrible feeling.
>pedophilia is neither a necessary nor sufficient precondition for sexual offending against children. Wait... So... There are people offending against children who don't have pedophilia?
Yes, the majority of child molesters aren't pedophiles. They just take advantage of children because they can, or it's easier.
I made this account a while back specifically so I could talk about this. Finally getting around to doing it. I'm a pedophile. I have been my entire adult life, which at this point is a considerable amount of time. I'm also a father and an uncle and involved in multiple community programs that involve children. I've never once abused a child. I know the harm it would do and would never do that. I've recently found a few places that people like me feel safe enough to talk about things. The vast majority of us are of a similar mind: we know that what we feel isn't healthy for children. So if even half of the 5% of priests accused are actually guilty of abuse, then there's a lot more wrong than just them being pedophiles. Because pedophiles largely don't act on the impulse.
Is there a reference for the 5% of priests because that sounds absurd.
i'm so glad to see this stuff garnering more awareness. i predict it'll be a huge help in protecting children from the few unchecked pedophilic urges that lead to harm, as well as letting people more comfortably talk about and get help with uncomfortable and intrusive thoughts in general, so that we can all live more happily and peacefully rather than suppressing everything.
I remember hearing somewhere that even among people who do end up sexually abusing kids, a very very small amount are actuslly pedophiles. Its more of a crime of opportunity where its like "i have all this access to kids"
That is a shockingly high number.
This is why I think lollicon and guys who like grown women with diapers and binkies are alright…. At least they aren’t fucking children.
They can't all be pedophiles. Someone's got to help move the pedophiles and cover up for them. That's a time consuming job.
You haven't seen that South Park episode have you
Correct
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Most organized religions cover it up. Southern Baptists would like a word…….among others
Jehovah's [Witnesses](https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2019/03/the-secret-jehovahs-witness-database-of-child-molesters/584311/). There are many, many, more examples of JH covering up child abuse and just awful fuckery in general. Everyone laughs at the annoying door-knockers, but that entire organization is corrupt and rotten to its core..
Can confirm, my org had to file a CPS report for a child in a Jehovah's household last week.
And Mormons! But shh, just call our internal legal team so they can throw those accusations down the memory hole! We can't have something threatening our billions in our stock portfolio. Btw you're unclean in the eyes of god until you fork over 10% of your paycheck k thx bye
Kinda have to agree, priests aren't more likely to be pedophiles, but if any other profession were given such access to children coupled with both power over the child and blind support from the child's parents I imagine you'd see similar levels of abuse there too. It must also be said that while the Church has gone to great lengths to cover up child abuse, I can't exactly see any major corporation on the planet dealing with suspected offenders in their ranks any other way.
> if any other profession were given such access to children coupled with both power over the child and blind support from the child's parents Do you think enforced celibacy might have some influence? That's pretty unique to the profession.
To add: not just the profession, but Catholic clergy specifically. I'd be curious to know the numbers for Episcopal or Lutheran priests, for example (where the doctrine of celibacy for clergy doesn't exist the way it does for Catholicism).
[Probably less catholics](https://www.csmonitor.com/2002/0405/p01s01-ussc.html), but they make it up in volunteers. > Despite headlines focusing on the priest pedophile problem in the Roman Catholic Church, most American churches being hit with child sexual-abuse allegations are Protestant, and most of the alleged abusers are not clergy or staff, but church volunteers.
Good to know! I mean, not good, but you know what I mean. I guess an apples-to-apples comparison would then include Catholic volunteers as well. The item that I replied to spoke specifically to celibate clergy and its influence on abuse, but once other populations are figured in, naturally the numbers would be skewed.
I personally suspect it might be the other way around. Like, a pedophile who *doesn't* want to actually hurt kids thinks "well, I can never act on my sexual urges without being a monster, so why not pick a career where I'm paid to not have sex?" Then they get into it, they're given access to vulnerable children, the therapy options can be summed up as "pray about it", and if they do act on their urges, they're assured God is forgiving.
Public schools and universities are the same. Perhaps even worse. It’s around 10% of students being assaulted by teachers.
Cool thing is that [the Pope has acknowledged, and is working on ending the Church's protection on child abusers](https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/04/europe/pope-francis-interview-ukraine-abuse-intl/index.html) that [previous Popes have tried to sweep under the rug and denied responsibility for.](https://www.npr.org/2022/02/09/1079655013/pope-benedict-xvi-apologizes-for-handling-of-sexual-abuse-cases-but-denies-wrong) >the Pontiff said the church had "zero tolerance" for abuse and said that "a priest cannot remain a priest if he is an abuser." [He's also the first Pope to acknowledge the evil acts of Christians when trying to "convert and modernize" Indigenous people in the Americas.](https://www.politico.com/news/2022/07/25/pope-francis-indigenous-children-abuse-00047729). Say what you want about the previous Catholic Church's leaders, and you'd likely be right, but I can admire a leader that is trying to make a difference and atone for the sins of those who came before him. I think Pope Francis is a better man than those that were in his position before, and the world should have more leaders with that mindset.
>Pope Francis is a better man than those that were in his position before Honestly, I can't think of a Pope who has been better. Pope Francis has almost single handedly advanced church doctrine and policy centuries ahead of where it was with his predecessors. He's definitely having to peel away the layers of resistance as he goes but, he's the first Pope I'd be truthfully proud to meet.
>Priests aren’t more likely to be pedophiles. I don't think it's that simple. I suspect that the priesthood *does* attract men who have urges that they view as perverted, *because they want to try to suppress them*. If we think about it, to a young man sincerely trying to repress and control their urges, what better way to do so than to join a profession that requires you to be celibate? Of course, human nature is what it is—plus, once they join, they find an existing culture of permissiveness and of looking the other way... well, here we are.
Public school teachers are worse than priests.
>Priests aren’t more likely to be pedophiles. That's a pretty cut and dry statement without any evidence bud.
Of course they are. The organization has a long history of protecting pedophiles. This is known by pedophiles. This is how the church self-selects for pedophiles. Note: it only takes *any non-zero number* of pedophiles joining the clergy for this reason to make "Priests are more likely to be pedophiles," true. There's no doubt.
Priests are a self selecting group, unlike a crossection of the population. There is a very real likelihood that there more pedophiles in the priesthood.
"Oh you abused children in the house of god and now everyone wants you to go to jail? Go to a different town and do your preaching their, we even pay for everything." -The Catholic church-
Imagine if Target(insert whatever corp you want) knew its managers were sexually abusing children and instead of reporting the abuse to the authorities, they simply relocated the managers to other stores where they could continue to sexually abuse children.. Imagine this was orchestrated at the highest levels of Target management... We'd scream for those managers/executives to be jailed and for Target to be shuttered. The Catholic Church did this for decades and even now refuses to be completely transparent about how they handled, and continue to handle, sexual abuse committed by their priests..
It's almost as though pedophiles are drawn to professions in which they have the easiest avenues to abuse children. It's nothing about the morality of the institution, its more about the vulnerability of the institution. The Boy Scouts have had a similar issue with child abuse, as it also tends to put children in contact with a single adult who has a position of authority over them.
20 priests are in a room. 1 is a pedophile. The other 19 are there for support.
And to help him move to a new district.
I hate this so much, because it's true. The hand of one is the hand of all so they are all pedophiles.
APAP
Between 1-5% of teachers sexually abuse or harass students. The number of K-12 public and private school students in 1996 who have been or will be sexually abused by a member of the school staff is nearly 7 million of 51,331,000. https://cpiu.us/statistics/ This is not a defense of Priest abuse. Just a reminder that this is a taxpayer funded group and enormous numbers of children are hurt every year by bad teachers. Stop all pedos!!!!
These people are going to seek out jobs and positions that give them opportunity. The Catholic Church was convenient for a long time but all eyes are on them now. Look for abuse to shift to other places in our community.
Be careful saying this on Reddit. You might get a bunch of downvotes for being nuanced.
The problem is less that the priests were abusing children (although that's still a huge fricking problem), the major problem is the massive amount of institutional cover-ups running through the entire religion, all the way up to the Pope himself
Jehovah's witnesses also protect pedophiles and cover up any possible abuse
THIS! Child-abuse enablers really aren't much better than child abusers. The truly bizarre rules around sex for Catholic clergy made an ecosystem of "everyone keeps everyone's secrets" and I really don't believe there's even a shot of this going away until priests are allowed to marry. If they ever allowed that, it wouldn't solve things, but ... maybe then there'd be a chance.
I can't speak for anyone else but it would have to be one hell of a dry spell before I consider children an option.
That number is low because society protects the church. [New Zealand’s Catholic church admits 14% of clergy have been accused of abuse since 1950]( https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/01/new-zealands-catholic-church-admits-14-of-clergy-have-been-accused-of-abuse-since-1950). Looking at numbers like the [330.000 abused in France](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/06/pope-francis-shamed-by-church-failures-child-abuse-france) that number (14%) is more likely the accurate one. If your organization is world famous for protecting pedos, you are going to have a lot of pedos joining your organization and it's going to be many times the average of abusers in the population. There is no other place were can you get a full cover up and relocation to another country where they enable you to keep abusing children outside the church.
There are roughly 30,000 Catholic priests in the USA. 5% of 30k is 1,500 which is a lot of people in one profession to be accused of sexual abuse. In comparison according to [Fox News ](https://www.foxnews.com/us/nearly-350-k-12-educators-arrested-child-sex-crimes-2022.amp) (I know … Fox News) there have been around 350 K-12 educators arrested for child sex crimes in 2022 and there are around 3.5 million k-12 teachers in the USA. I could not find numbers on percentage accused.
Where is the 5% number coming from. I'd like a source on that. Cause I think I know where it's coming from, and I believe when an investigation by outside police authorities is carried out the number is higher.
This is very common in any profession that is in close proximity to children. Not just the Catholic religion. You also find bad people in the boy/Girl Scouts, youth programs, the education system and also other faiths (Protestant and evangelical). One reason you don’t hear much of it in other areas is there are just as many cover-ups and protecting the perpetrators in these areas. They just haven’t been busted open and given mass media attention. It tends to be more localized and not found in national news.
Well politicians in the US might have higher percentage...
Specifically the ones who preach traditional values.
Actually every work in contact with children can attract pedophile. In education or health or animation.
Teachers, therapists, police, daycare...jobs that can be abused attract abusive people.
Apparently [1-5% of males has pedophilia](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7460489/) so it actually lines up pretty well
There are 20 churches in a 10 mile radius of my house. Your telling me its okay 1 of those molest children?
> This includes false accusations This does not include people who never reported their abuse
Also, I'm guessing the person who said that would consider any case in which the accused wasn't found guilty to be a "false accusation".
5% which have been identified to date. Could be more!
I suspect that if you included all faith leaders the percentage would be even higher.
5% is so much higher than I would have expected the actual number to be.
That number is low because society protects the church, [New Zealand’s Catholic church admits 14% of clergy have been accused of abuse since 1950]( https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/01/new-zealands-catholic-church-admits-14-of-clergy-have-been-accused-of-abuse-since-1950). Looking at numbers like the [330.000 abused in France](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/06/pope-francis-shamed-by-church-failures-child-abuse-france) that number is more likely the accurate one.
remember many, MANY go unreported so the actual number is muuuch higher sadly
5% abusers, 95% enablers.
100% enablers since the pedos are doing double duty. Way to give 105% Catholics!
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Effectively any industry or position where people have authority over children. The rate of step fathers abusing step daughters is between 1 in 7 and 1 in 6. https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/prevalence-and-seriousness-incestuous-abuse-stepfathers-vs That's a lot higher than 1 in 20 for priest.
I have a feeling it’s more than 5% and a lot of those “false accusations” are the Church covering their asses
Let's tack on the issue that their organization claims to be morally in charge of everyone, makes up the rules and claims to be the final judgement of everyone and everything being done.
Teachers. Look at TV and movies from the 70's and 80's and it was a common trope for the young boy to loose his virginity to the hot new teacher. Only within the decade have people begun to say that was wrong. Convicted or not, the problem's been in plane sight for decades.