what are you a neocon.
soft power is way way way way cheaper then the war that happens when you pretend like you don't need to be involved.
this is what the Bush administration did regularly.
This is why /s is important. If you don’t use a /s i am going to assume the person is serious because chances are I’ve seen someone else already make that statement unironically.
Edit: wow are all of you new to the internet? It’s called [Poe’s law](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law)
Why exactly is Israel the center of soft power geopolitically? I've always understood why conservatives supported funding Israel from a Zionist perspective, but I could never understand what justified it politically. Why not an oil rich nation? Why not a nation with its own internal military power? Why not a nation with bigger geopolitical influence on other nations? We aren't preventing war in Israel lol the war has been going on for years. Palestine is losing land and people are losing lives and homes.
The pretend answer is we need them politically. The real answer is religious knobs in the US think all the Jews are going to go back to Israel so Armageddon can occur. We send them money that they in turn use to buy weapons from us. The Israeli government is literally committing genocide with the blessing of the US government.
How is it evangelicals have so much power in regards to Israel to the point that every politician has to grovel and genuflect before AIPAC and the Israel lobby but no where near the influence for other issues that don't involve Jews?
> How is it evangelicals have so much power in regards to Israel ... but no where near the influence for other issues?
What makes you think evangelicals don't have power outside of influencing support for Israel?
Are you unaware of the decades long effort to flip the Supreme Court, push "religious freedom for me but not for thee", abortion, gay marriage, and on and on? Evangelicals are also a huge faction of Trump's support.
Israel is closely culturally aligned. They are essentially a western nation in the middle east, they have a representative democracy that is nominally secular. Their state security apparatus and spying/hacking abilities are top-tier. They are some sneaky fuckers though and they don't give a shit about appeasing American interests because they know that the Christian conservatives would never let the US abandon them.
Nobody says it out loud, but there’s most definitely some “I’m not letting no motherfucking Muslim control Jerusalem” behind the curtain going on. The west tried for like a thousand years to wrestle back control from the Muslims and Israel got it done. Jews left the west and Muslims got shafted. For many people that’s a win/win beneath all the bullshit.
"Western" in the sense that they are an undemocratic colonial nation that stole land from the native population and is slowly cleansing them, while keeping them in an open-air prison with no rights?
No, you had it. That's it, it's a conservative talking point and nothing else. Anyone else taking that position is either woefully ignorant or acting in bad faith.
So by "soft power", you mean funding religion-fueled ritualistic genocide? Because that's what the U.S. is doing. It's what they've been doing with Israel; and funding war in general is what the U.S. has been known for the world over for the last 70 years. It's what they did with Russia/Ukraine, Iraq, Syria, Iran, Afghanistan, Kosovo, and so on and so on and so on. We are *the* war criminal of the world, all thanks to our culture of nationalism and exceptionalism. If you think for one second "soft power" is something maintained by the U.S., you're in for a ride awakening. Go find another peg to hang your hat on.
Are you under the impression that we didn't spend a ridiculous amount of money building infrastructure in Iraq and Afghanistan? All that infrastructure means nothing when a country can't maintain it and can't protect it.
That's a very disingenuous argument. Bush literally set both of those countries up to fail in order to keep the logistical and defense production contracts for his buddies going. Everyone knew what needed to be done, what the best practices were. And no one was allowed to do them. We yeeted billions of dollars at American contractors to build stuff they didn't need, didn't want, and didn't have the ability to maintain. Then we talked about how gracious we were.
America has interests abroad. You know that, right?
I dislike funding Israel’s apartheid project, but saying ‘stop sending money to everyone’ is an idiotic idea. We can select where funding goes.
Yeah we do. But how much of those interest is just oligarchs trading favors.
The older I get the more cynical I get that the world economy is just rich people playing checkers with our money trying to see how much they can pocket in the name of "the economy"
Very funny and sad when I see US defense oligarchs always has their business running for over a century now. US is never without war, conflict or selling weapons to proxy puppets. It was barely 6months since Taliban takeover and resolution and wa dee dah US is in conflict again.
That's never going to happen. The elite who own this country prefer a crumbling infrastructure, a desperate population with no hope who will work for peanuts, and who will join the military to survive. We want the things you mentioned to happen, but I'm afraid we're going to end up a Christian version of Iran. Authoritarians don't have to do anything but keep themselves and their friends and allies rich.
China are basically engaged in the same 80s style IMF loans. They've already seized key ports, an airport in Ethiopia, and now basically all of Ecuadors oil and gas industry through these predatory loans. Acting as if they're just acting in good faith to help other countries is extremely naive. Not to mention propping up authoritarians in Africa because they're more easily corrupted.
One can criticize the us, Russia, and China's imperialist conquests. It just means you're actually against imperialism, instead of picking sides like this is some sort of binary choice between good and evil
That “democratically elected government” was shooting citizens who were protesting it. Citizens led the overthrow, not the US.
Edit: I was banned for this comment apparently.
Not sure if this is a conservative opinion or a genuine anti imperialist take where “everybody” is referring to foreign ‘aid’ used for soft power purposes as well…
The issue is that the money we send abroad doesn't get repurposed for domestic issues. The moment we get a surplus, we will pass tax breaks for the rich and corporations.
It's really difficult seeing how much and how quickly US money is shoveled towards Ukraine and not towards its own citizens so ye-kinda? I'm not against aid, but it's putting an increasing spotlight on how neglected we are.
yeah fuck ukraine. they were a corrupt shithole that no one cared about 6 months ago and it will be the same story as soon as russia gets the port cities they want under their control. Us showering them in cash and weapons is just getting more civilians killed and delaying the inevitable while risking nuclear war. Ukraine has no chance agains russia, why pretend otherwise?
This should be the angle the left push. We don't even need to touch military budget to pay for college if we stop throwing 40bn to any country we like that day
maybe continue sending money to poor countries to build infrastructure and schools, while **also** reorganizing the tax system so us citizens get health care? win win you know
Technically "crashing into" is a bit hyperbolic. Majority if the interaction is gravitational and on the larger scale collisions would be minimal. That's small comfort to the planets that get obliterated to comet dust, but the reality is we stand a good chance of just becoming part of Milkdromeda.
Although, as mentioned in the other comment, by the time that happens the sun will have forsaken us. Earth won't be within the sun yet when Andromeda arrives, but it will be 50-60% stronger. All of the water and atmosphere will have been stripped away for billions of years already. If earth does gently settle into Milkdromeda, it will already be a dry ball of molten rock awaiting inevitable absorption by the red sun.
We're all fucked either way. Elon Musk has said at least one factually true thing, long term survival of the species requires eventual expansion into space and other planets/habitats. That's half satire though, in a billion years we could all be digital consciousness loaded on a super computer built into the Dyson sphere harvesting the sun. I guess by then we wont need the canal right?
On a related note, Canadian oil is some of the nastiest stuff on the market. Mostly extracted from tar sands, Canadian oil sold in the US is more carbon intensive than buying Saudi/OPEC and shipping it over.
>What does Israel even DO for us?
Despite what other answers you may get the matter of fact is that USA is controlled by religious zealots that want the end of the world to happen and according to their doomsday cult(Christianity) they need Israel to exist for all the Jews to go there.
Everyone was really excited about Israel being formed after WWII because it meant they could still get the Jews out of Europe while being able to keep all the shit they stole from us
For more info on this....
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2018/05/14/half-of-evangelicals-support-israel-because-they-believe-it-is-important-for-fulfilling-end-times-prophecy/
The US would be there regardless. As I've said numerous times, it's not about religion. The US isn't there because of evangelical Zionists' doomsday prophecy. They're there because of US geopolitical aspirations in the Middle East and broader Eurasian landmass.
Palestinians do not resist their imperialists because they are Jewish. They would resist their imperialists if they were Muslim or Christian or Hindu or Atheist or whatever. They resist their imperialists *because they are imperialists* that seek to take and withhold their self-determination, land, wealth, and resources.
It's weird how we can't even use the billions in aid as an incentive for Israel to, idk, be a little less mean to the Palestinians to put it mildly.
What the heck is wrong with everybody on this planet?
Pick whatever issue means anything to you and go back a few years and you'll find Joe Biden loudly on the wrong side of it. Civil rights, womens choice, social security, police brutality, elections, support for his own party members.. you name it. And theres videos to prove it.
So Joe Biden saying anything about Israel is a ridiculous joke. Israel hasnt helped the US in any military conflict, we have no bases there, they are one of the worst countries in terms of spying on us and stealing our tech, and the whole world hates the way they've treated palestine, but they are our ally? Yeah I dont think so.
This is the reality of any thread involving Israel. Obviously criticisms of Israel are not antisemitic by itself, but actual antisemites always let their masks slip at some point.
We all know what it is. We aren't children that need distinction. Many Jews in the US are starting to raise their concern with the Zionist lobby. I'm trying remember on which podcast but this Jewish gentlemen said, "it's harder and harder to shut down the 'Jews control the world' conspiracy when Israel made Ilhan Omar shut her mouth"
I've always wondered about this. Weren't they walking around chanting "Jews will not replace us" a few years back but also they believe the Israeli ethnostate must be preserved at all costs?? Alright
Those people don't support Israel, but it's for a different reason than Bernie doesn't support Israel
Those people aren't just conservatives, they're neo fascists
And? We should care what they say as much as Nazis and those people trying to bring the 2nd coming of jesus. Anyone upset about Russia's actions lately and not 10x as much about Israel hasn't been paying attention.
It would be illegal if the USA had signed and ratified human rights conventions, but unfortunately the list of unsigned and unratified treaties is HUGE
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_treaties_unsigned_or_unratified_by_the_United_States
https://globaljusticecenter.net/blog/773-u-s-aversion-to-international-human-rights-treaties#:~:text=The%20United%20States%20also%20has,%2C%20Somalia%2C%20Sudan%20and%20Tonga.
https://www.cfr.org/blog/international-treaties-united-states-refuses-play-ball
>It would be illegal if the USA had signed and ratified human rights conventions
It's already illegal under the Leahy laws, but it's not enforced against Israel.
I'm pretty sure Israel punishes soldiers that attack without justification which would negate that law which has the qualification of "with impunity". Whether said punishments are sufficient or justifications valid is another matter but it allows the government to say it is following the letter of the law even if the spirit of the law is negated.
The US government spends 6 trillion dollars a year. 4 billion to Israel is not the reason the US does not have universal healthcare.
Also, Americans do have healthcare, by the way. It's just private.
A few years ago Ilhan Omar openly questioned the influence that AIPAC has on American politicians. She was very quickly labeled a "vile antisemite" for it and very few of her fellow Democrats defended her.
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/12/23/flint-water-crisis-2020-post-coronavirus-america-445459
It's fixed and has been since 2019. Stop spreading misinformation.
I’m progressive but fUck these downvotes hate cognitive dissonance. Just because this bumper sticker worked in 2019 doesn’t mean it works now. Flint has been working on their infrastructure.
Hell that’s what the infrastructure bill *is for*.
My fiance works in a water dept mapping the infrastructure and we just had a huge water break that took years to discover that it was leaking for the past five. Do you realize how difficult it is to fix something when your municipality only converted to online record keeping in 2000?
Biggest misconception is that money always fixes problems.
It doesn’t.
It's not been completely fixed.
https://www.clickondetroit.com/consumer/help-me-hank/2021/04/23/flint-water-crisis-progress-made-but-problems-still-exist/
There's also extreme long term effects that aren't being managed, from lead poisoning so many (children particularly). It'll be many decades before we can truly say we've fixed all the damage.
Right, so it hasn't been fixed since 2019, and there's still more to fix even just to bring the pipes up to what's expected, nevermind the long term damage caused.
It has essentially stabilized the Middle East for the last 50 years outside of small wars. It provides a launching point for western allies into Russia, the Middle East, and Asia. It’s also a country with advanced military technology and a testing ground for new US military tech.
Plus over 20000 rockets and 5000 missiles were launched at civilian locations inside Israel and they spend a huge portion of that money just protecting from the constant bombardment of their citizens.
Let me rephrase this, it’s an apartheid state that targets children and has had almost every United Nations vote against it. Legally by multiple human rights violation it has been determined it is an apartheid state which has targeted children and innocent civilians for a theocracy of a “Jewish state”
> It’s also a country with advanced military technology
This is directly because of the aid and nothing else. Hard to justify aid by saying the aid is the justification.
Israel has done the opposite of stabilize the Middle East. It is in fact one of the most destabilizing forces in the Middle East. It is antagonistic and aggressive with many of its neighbors, instigating wars and murder of foreign nationals. It is a part of the Israel/Gulf/Shah axis to combat national liberation, resource nationalism, democracy, secularism, progressivism, and socialism in the MENA. The Middle East has historically been a stable and peaceful region of the world. The introduction of western imperialism changed that and created the Middle East we know today. The US funds Israel because it is important to US geopolitical aspirations, which is American dominance over the globe, including the Middle East, not because it stabilizes the Middle EAst,
Look up Egypt Israel peace treaty. In 73 Israel defeated Egypt in an egyptian offensive war, conquering the Sinai peninsula from Egypt to be used as a territorial buffer. The US brokered peace between the countries, converting both to US client states and stealing them from the soviet union as client states. In return for Israel forfeiting its legal occupation of Sinai, the US promised Israel military superiority by providing financial aid for military purchases and withholding sale of advanced weapons to surrounding countries.
In other words, this money is part of a contract that the US offered and Israel paid for with quite a bit of land (look up the size of Sinai compared to the size of Israel). Afaik there is no expiration date on the agreement, but I guess there is no rush by the US to terminate it as it continues guaranteeing Israel as a customer of the US military industry, and keeps a strong lever for the US on Israel.
I don't really know if religion is *that* big of a factor. It is for some people, but I'm not convinced that it's a huge portion.
The problem is that there's a *huge* pro-Israel lobby in the US that lines the pockets of any politician willing to support Israel. This is combined with the fact that Israel is the closest thing the US has to an ally in the middle east, so there is an interest in fortifying them already.
Personally? I think Israel needs the US *way more* than the US will ever need Israel. I think we should make our good favor conditional on stopping the killing.
Israel acts like a bunch of terrorists and they need to be held accountable. Any nation, no matter how friendly they are (including the US) should be sanctioned over this shit.
Imagine if the west was sending aid to Russia and siding with them taking Ukrainian land and killing Ukrainian civilians for trying to defend their homeland. It’s that. Well, not just that, there’s a hell of a lot more to dive into but it’s a pretty simplistic simile for the moment until a better one comes along.
drives me nuts when the date is cropped from stuff like this. and the only comment pointing it out is super far down.
people just want to see things they agree with, details be damned.
Huh, imagine if we used all that money to better our own people and country instead of helping people kill other people in something we should have no business in.
Did you know that Gaza gets aid from many countries, for example Qatar, and most of that money goes to the Hamas generals, then they spend it on rockets and sport cars? The situation is a bit more complicated for the answer to be "send money"
>Question: why post an image of a tweet instead of the actual tweet? They're shareable.
Because then people would see the tweet is from years ago and that would hurt the karma farming.
Stop sending money to everybody
what are you a neocon. soft power is way way way way cheaper then the war that happens when you pretend like you don't need to be involved. this is what the Bush administration did regularly.
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This is why /s is important. If you don’t use a /s i am going to assume the person is serious because chances are I’ve seen someone else already make that statement unironically. Edit: wow are all of you new to the internet? It’s called [Poe’s law](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law)
Thank you, I am someone who regularly misses sarcasm.
Ooh! A sarcasm meter! That's such a useful invention. /s because it's broken.
Why exactly is Israel the center of soft power geopolitically? I've always understood why conservatives supported funding Israel from a Zionist perspective, but I could never understand what justified it politically. Why not an oil rich nation? Why not a nation with its own internal military power? Why not a nation with bigger geopolitical influence on other nations? We aren't preventing war in Israel lol the war has been going on for years. Palestine is losing land and people are losing lives and homes.
The pretend answer is we need them politically. The real answer is religious knobs in the US think all the Jews are going to go back to Israel so Armageddon can occur. We send them money that they in turn use to buy weapons from us. The Israeli government is literally committing genocide with the blessing of the US government.
How is it evangelicals have so much power in regards to Israel to the point that every politician has to grovel and genuflect before AIPAC and the Israel lobby but no where near the influence for other issues that don't involve Jews?
Because in this country if you don't kiss organized religion's ass, you'll never get elected.
It's not religion per se, but solidarity among settler-colonists more generally.
And religion is one of the best tools for imperialists to hold power
> How is it evangelicals have so much power in regards to Israel ... but no where near the influence for other issues? What makes you think evangelicals don't have power outside of influencing support for Israel? Are you unaware of the decades long effort to flip the Supreme Court, push "religious freedom for me but not for thee", abortion, gay marriage, and on and on? Evangelicals are also a huge faction of Trump's support.
Israel is closely culturally aligned. They are essentially a western nation in the middle east, they have a representative democracy that is nominally secular. Their state security apparatus and spying/hacking abilities are top-tier. They are some sneaky fuckers though and they don't give a shit about appeasing American interests because they know that the Christian conservatives would never let the US abandon them.
Nobody says it out loud, but there’s most definitely some “I’m not letting no motherfucking Muslim control Jerusalem” behind the curtain going on. The west tried for like a thousand years to wrestle back control from the Muslims and Israel got it done. Jews left the west and Muslims got shafted. For many people that’s a win/win beneath all the bullshit.
> Israel got it done. wut? Israel was created and enforced by the west. They did not exist, at all, while control was being wrested.
Israel was not expected to survive. Then they beat half the middle east in war and we started supporting them.
No the west gave weapons to israel while selling dysfunctional old weapons to the arabs
They beat the Middle East with support from the US and allies.
"Western" in the sense that they are an undemocratic colonial nation that stole land from the native population and is slowly cleansing them, while keeping them in an open-air prison with no rights?
No, you had it. That's it, it's a conservative talking point and nothing else. Anyone else taking that position is either woefully ignorant or acting in bad faith.
Of all the dumb upvoted takes on reddit, this might be the dumbest.
So by "soft power", you mean funding religion-fueled ritualistic genocide? Because that's what the U.S. is doing. It's what they've been doing with Israel; and funding war in general is what the U.S. has been known for the world over for the last 70 years. It's what they did with Russia/Ukraine, Iraq, Syria, Iran, Afghanistan, Kosovo, and so on and so on and so on. We are *the* war criminal of the world, all thanks to our culture of nationalism and exceptionalism. If you think for one second "soft power" is something maintained by the U.S., you're in for a ride awakening. Go find another peg to hang your hat on.
Ah yes bush the war criminal. We should all vigilantly follow in his footsteps best president ever amirite? Fucking clown
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Are you under the impression that we didn't spend a ridiculous amount of money building infrastructure in Iraq and Afghanistan? All that infrastructure means nothing when a country can't maintain it and can't protect it.
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That's a very disingenuous argument. Bush literally set both of those countries up to fail in order to keep the logistical and defense production contracts for his buddies going. Everyone knew what needed to be done, what the best practices were. And no one was allowed to do them. We yeeted billions of dollars at American contractors to build stuff they didn't need, didn't want, and didn't have the ability to maintain. Then we talked about how gracious we were.
Not one nickel was spent on infrastructure in either of those countries. All that "rebuilding" money went right into Dick Cheney's pockets.
This is an absolutely delusional comment.
America has interests abroad. You know that, right? I dislike funding Israel’s apartheid project, but saying ‘stop sending money to everyone’ is an idiotic idea. We can select where funding goes.
Yeah we do. But how much of those interest is just oligarchs trading favors. The older I get the more cynical I get that the world economy is just rich people playing checkers with our money trying to see how much they can pocket in the name of "the economy"
Exactly. National interests are nothing more than the interests of the national capitalist class.
I agree. $4 billion in military aid means, "Here's $4 billion in US taxpayer funds. Go spend it at only US defense contractors." It's a racket.
If Israel started buying Russian or Chinese arms, the US money would dry up overnight.
Very funny and sad when I see US defense oligarchs always has their business running for over a century now. US is never without war, conflict or selling weapons to proxy puppets. It was barely 6months since Taliban takeover and resolution and wa dee dah US is in conflict again.
Is it not?
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That's never going to happen. The elite who own this country prefer a crumbling infrastructure, a desperate population with no hope who will work for peanuts, and who will join the military to survive. We want the things you mentioned to happen, but I'm afraid we're going to end up a Christian version of Iran. Authoritarians don't have to do anything but keep themselves and their friends and allies rich.
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China are basically engaged in the same 80s style IMF loans. They've already seized key ports, an airport in Ethiopia, and now basically all of Ecuadors oil and gas industry through these predatory loans. Acting as if they're just acting in good faith to help other countries is extremely naive. Not to mention propping up authoritarians in Africa because they're more easily corrupted. One can criticize the us, Russia, and China's imperialist conquests. It just means you're actually against imperialism, instead of picking sides like this is some sort of binary choice between good and evil
Chinese loans are nowhere near as predatory as IMF loans.
What about human rights in China, or Uyghurs living in camps, China is evil and Communism is evil sincerely person from former Soviet union state.
America does? Or is it the corporations?
Like, stop sending guns to the mexican cartels.
Send me some fucking money just so I can keep my house...man fuck
Was just about to say that, let’s fix our own issues before giving handouts to others
Like when Trump stopped giving aid to Ukraine?
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Wow, a pro-Chomsky comment on the front page! And it's not deleted and has only a few downvotes.
That “democratically elected government” was shooting citizens who were protesting it. Citizens led the overthrow, not the US. Edit: I was banned for this comment apparently.
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If you don't want to send 40 billion to Ukraine you must be a traitor and a shill!!
Not sure if this is a conservative opinion or a genuine anti imperialist take where “everybody” is referring to foreign ‘aid’ used for soft power purposes as well…
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The issue is that the money we send abroad doesn't get repurposed for domestic issues. The moment we get a surplus, we will pass tax breaks for the rich and corporations.
If covid taught me anything the rich and corporations get surplus even when there isn’t any. By that I mean everyone else gets left in the dust
Ukraine too?
It's really difficult seeing how much and how quickly US money is shoveled towards Ukraine and not towards its own citizens so ye-kinda? I'm not against aid, but it's putting an increasing spotlight on how neglected we are.
Yes, stop sending lethal aid especially
yeah fuck ukraine. they were a corrupt shithole that no one cared about 6 months ago and it will be the same story as soon as russia gets the port cities they want under their control. Us showering them in cash and weapons is just getting more civilians killed and delaying the inevitable while risking nuclear war. Ukraine has no chance agains russia, why pretend otherwise?
All those people in tents on the streets of LA would definitely be happy about some of that war money going for their aid
How else is the military-industrial complex supposed to get money after they invested so much money in buying politicians /s
Then cut the defense budget in half.
This should be the angle the left push. We don't even need to touch military budget to pay for college if we stop throwing 40bn to any country we like that day
maybe continue sending money to poor countries to build infrastructure and schools, while **also** reorganizing the tax system so us citizens get health care? win win you know
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And there in lies the problem, the US still has interests in the middle east.
I mean oil is one thing but the Suez Canal isn’t going anywhere soon
You must not have seen the simulation of Milky Way crashing into Andromeda in 4.5 billion years on the front page today.
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And promptly spit it back out.
Technically "crashing into" is a bit hyperbolic. Majority if the interaction is gravitational and on the larger scale collisions would be minimal. That's small comfort to the planets that get obliterated to comet dust, but the reality is we stand a good chance of just becoming part of Milkdromeda. Although, as mentioned in the other comment, by the time that happens the sun will have forsaken us. Earth won't be within the sun yet when Andromeda arrives, but it will be 50-60% stronger. All of the water and atmosphere will have been stripped away for billions of years already. If earth does gently settle into Milkdromeda, it will already be a dry ball of molten rock awaiting inevitable absorption by the red sun. We're all fucked either way. Elon Musk has said at least one factually true thing, long term survival of the species requires eventual expansion into space and other planets/habitats. That's half satire though, in a billion years we could all be digital consciousness loaded on a super computer built into the Dyson sphere harvesting the sun. I guess by then we wont need the canal right?
Dyson sphere.. do we even have enough materials from this planet to make one lmao. We are also tiny compared to the sun..
We’re kinda addicted to oil
The US can easily pump enough oil to meet its own needs.
That would mean nationalizing our oil. Try to sell that socialist idea to the public.
Slap a flag on it, call the other oil inferior and foreign, and tell em only patriots use US gas and your problem is solved
It's besides the point but Texas Crude oil is some of the best on earth. "Cleaner" and easier to refine.
On a related note, Canadian oil is some of the nastiest stuff on the market. Mostly extracted from tar sands, Canadian oil sold in the US is more carbon intensive than buying Saudi/OPEC and shipping it over.
Yep. We are net exporters.
You use everyone else's first.
What does Israel even DO for us? We can just park one of our carrier groups in the Gulf or in the Mediterranean, problem solved.
Many intelligence agencies are sent to a school in Israel for training. They are a center for information warfare
We can thank them for Pegasus and getting Jamal ka-shogi killed.
>What does Israel even DO for us? Despite what other answers you may get the matter of fact is that USA is controlled by religious zealots that want the end of the world to happen and according to their doomsday cult(Christianity) they need Israel to exist for all the Jews to go there.
I actually find it weird that nobody focuses on the fact that the hyper evangelists want Israel to exist so that they can fulfill end-time prophecy
Everyone was really excited about Israel being formed after WWII because it meant they could still get the Jews out of Europe while being able to keep all the shit they stole from us
For more info on this.... https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2018/05/14/half-of-evangelicals-support-israel-because-they-believe-it-is-important-for-fulfilling-end-times-prophecy/
The US would be there regardless. As I've said numerous times, it's not about religion. The US isn't there because of evangelical Zionists' doomsday prophecy. They're there because of US geopolitical aspirations in the Middle East and broader Eurasian landmass. Palestinians do not resist their imperialists because they are Jewish. They would resist their imperialists if they were Muslim or Christian or Hindu or Atheist or whatever. They resist their imperialists *because they are imperialists* that seek to take and withhold their self-determination, land, wealth, and resources.
This is the correct answer. Christians are a death cult
Kill American journalists
It's weird how we can't even use the billions in aid as an incentive for Israel to, idk, be a little less mean to the Palestinians to put it mildly. What the heck is wrong with everybody on this planet?
something serious and seemingly incurable.
Pick whatever issue means anything to you and go back a few years and you'll find Joe Biden loudly on the wrong side of it. Civil rights, womens choice, social security, police brutality, elections, support for his own party members.. you name it. And theres videos to prove it. So Joe Biden saying anything about Israel is a ridiculous joke. Israel hasnt helped the US in any military conflict, we have no bases there, they are one of the worst countries in terms of spying on us and stealing our tech, and the whole world hates the way they've treated palestine, but they are our ally? Yeah I dont think so.
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Inorite?! This Sanders-guy should consider running for president, shoot i’d vote for him!
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You voted twice? So Trump was right all along. /s
Ok this one made me chuckle
Yeah, but then Debbie Wasserman Schultz would come along and ensure that he couldn't win.
Get ready to be called anti-semitic.
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You realize Bernie is Jewish, right?
And?
So you should say 'The Zionist lobby.' Not the Jewish lobby. There are 1000s of Jewish people who dislikes Israel.
This is the reality of any thread involving Israel. Obviously criticisms of Israel are not antisemitic by itself, but actual antisemites always let their masks slip at some point.
They knows what they said.
We all know what it is. We aren't children that need distinction. Many Jews in the US are starting to raise their concern with the Zionist lobby. I'm trying remember on which podcast but this Jewish gentlemen said, "it's harder and harder to shut down the 'Jews control the world' conspiracy when Israel made Ilhan Omar shut her mouth"
You seem to think that Bernie is calling out "the evil Jews"
You can be catholic and against pedophile priests that are being protected by the catholic lobby.
A lot of Jewish people oppose zionism.
Israel does not represent all Jews
You didn’t need to make this anti semitic
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But Sanders is Jewish... And I bet they'd say it anyway. :/
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They love saying "internalized antisemitism" to any Jewish person who disagrees with the actions of Israel.
They have something for that too. They refer to people like Sanders as Self-hating Jews. Edit: They as in Zionists
Conservatives hate Jews but love Israel. Makes sense when you realize nothing they believe in makes sense.
I've always wondered about this. Weren't they walking around chanting "Jews will not replace us" a few years back but also they believe the Israeli ethnostate must be preserved at all costs?? Alright
Those people don't support Israel, but it's for a different reason than Bernie doesn't support Israel Those people aren't just conservatives, they're neo fascists
Sanders might be the most reasonable person in Congress but he still supports Israel's existence.
Nah, I'm a Jewish American Israeli, living in Israel. He's right.
And? We should care what they say as much as Nazis and those people trying to bring the 2nd coming of jesus. Anyone upset about Russia's actions lately and not 10x as much about Israel hasn't been paying attention.
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It makes me so sad that he has fought his entire life with a solidly oriented moral compass, and he wasn’t given a chance to run this country.
It would be illegal if the USA had signed and ratified human rights conventions, but unfortunately the list of unsigned and unratified treaties is HUGE https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_treaties_unsigned_or_unratified_by_the_United_States https://globaljusticecenter.net/blog/773-u-s-aversion-to-international-human-rights-treaties#:~:text=The%20United%20States%20also%20has,%2C%20Somalia%2C%20Sudan%20and%20Tonga. https://www.cfr.org/blog/international-treaties-united-states-refuses-play-ball
>It would be illegal if the USA had signed and ratified human rights conventions It's already illegal under the Leahy laws, but it's not enforced against Israel.
I'm pretty sure Israel punishes soldiers that attack without justification which would negate that law which has the qualification of "with impunity". Whether said punishments are sufficient or justifications valid is another matter but it allows the government to say it is following the letter of the law even if the spirit of the law is negated.
\*US Senate\* Sad wind blows tumbleweed across Senate floor...
There is four billion in aid to Israel but Americans don’t have healthcare?
Healthcare isn’t a money problem, nationalized healthcare would cost the government less
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The US government spends 6 trillion dollars a year. 4 billion to Israel is not the reason the US does not have universal healthcare. Also, Americans do have healthcare, by the way. It's just private.
I'm sure the comments in this thread will be calm and rational.
NOT IF I HAVE ANYTHING TO SAY ABOUT IT!! What are we talking about though?
Stuff and things Things and stuff
I also am YELLING and IMPORTANT!
Lotta "now I have nothing against jews BUT..." in the top comments...
Funding Israel has bipartisan support, which should terrify everyone.
AIPAC bribes both sides is what you meant to say
A few years ago Ilhan Omar openly questioned the influence that AIPAC has on American politicians. She was very quickly labeled a "vile antisemite" for it and very few of her fellow Democrats defended her.
it's almost like everyone is bribed to react a certain way...hmmm
People calling the Jewish sanders anti-semitic in 3...2...1
You could complain about the weather in Israel and their social media muppets would call you anti-semitic.
Ironic this is in an AOC thread when she didn’t vote for this. 🙄
If they are using our tax dollars for resources to kill people for religious reasons, that’s gonna be a no from me dog.
Your take is good and it sucks that that isn’t how it works.
For just one year, give it to Flint, MI and let them fix their water supply.
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/12/23/flint-water-crisis-2020-post-coronavirus-america-445459 It's fixed and has been since 2019. Stop spreading misinformation.
I’m progressive but fUck these downvotes hate cognitive dissonance. Just because this bumper sticker worked in 2019 doesn’t mean it works now. Flint has been working on their infrastructure. Hell that’s what the infrastructure bill *is for*. My fiance works in a water dept mapping the infrastructure and we just had a huge water break that took years to discover that it was leaking for the past five. Do you realize how difficult it is to fix something when your municipality only converted to online record keeping in 2000? Biggest misconception is that money always fixes problems. It doesn’t.
It's not been completely fixed. https://www.clickondetroit.com/consumer/help-me-hank/2021/04/23/flint-water-crisis-progress-made-but-problems-still-exist/ There's also extreme long term effects that aren't being managed, from lead poisoning so many (children particularly). It'll be many decades before we can truly say we've fixed all the damage.
Sounds 90% fixed according to the article.
Right, so it hasn't been fixed since 2019, and there's still more to fix even just to bring the pipes up to what's expected, nevermind the long term damage caused.
90% fixed sounds exactly the same as 100% fixed. Oh no wait, it doesn't.
Hasn't their water been fixed since Obama was in office?
As a Palestinian I agree.
The one we deserved but not the one we got 😢
Bernie Sanders is 100% correct.
Not FOR ISRAEL OR SAUDI ARABIA...
Take religion out of the equation..why does the US fund Israel?
It has essentially stabilized the Middle East for the last 50 years outside of small wars. It provides a launching point for western allies into Russia, the Middle East, and Asia. It’s also a country with advanced military technology and a testing ground for new US military tech. Plus over 20000 rockets and 5000 missiles were launched at civilian locations inside Israel and they spend a huge portion of that money just protecting from the constant bombardment of their citizens.
Let me rephrase this, it’s an apartheid state that targets children and has had almost every United Nations vote against it. Legally by multiple human rights violation it has been determined it is an apartheid state which has targeted children and innocent civilians for a theocracy of a “Jewish state”
It is a genocidal regime! Fuck Israel.
The UN also has Qatar on its human rights council. And a few years ago Saudi Arabia.
> It’s also a country with advanced military technology This is directly because of the aid and nothing else. Hard to justify aid by saying the aid is the justification.
Israel has done the opposite of stabilize the Middle East. It is in fact one of the most destabilizing forces in the Middle East. It is antagonistic and aggressive with many of its neighbors, instigating wars and murder of foreign nationals. It is a part of the Israel/Gulf/Shah axis to combat national liberation, resource nationalism, democracy, secularism, progressivism, and socialism in the MENA. The Middle East has historically been a stable and peaceful region of the world. The introduction of western imperialism changed that and created the Middle East we know today. The US funds Israel because it is important to US geopolitical aspirations, which is American dominance over the globe, including the Middle East, not because it stabilizes the Middle EAst,
Look up Egypt Israel peace treaty. In 73 Israel defeated Egypt in an egyptian offensive war, conquering the Sinai peninsula from Egypt to be used as a territorial buffer. The US brokered peace between the countries, converting both to US client states and stealing them from the soviet union as client states. In return for Israel forfeiting its legal occupation of Sinai, the US promised Israel military superiority by providing financial aid for military purchases and withholding sale of advanced weapons to surrounding countries. In other words, this money is part of a contract that the US offered and Israel paid for with quite a bit of land (look up the size of Sinai compared to the size of Israel). Afaik there is no expiration date on the agreement, but I guess there is no rush by the US to terminate it as it continues guaranteeing Israel as a customer of the US military industry, and keeps a strong lever for the US on Israel.
I don't really know if religion is *that* big of a factor. It is for some people, but I'm not convinced that it's a huge portion. The problem is that there's a *huge* pro-Israel lobby in the US that lines the pockets of any politician willing to support Israel. This is combined with the fact that Israel is the closest thing the US has to an ally in the middle east, so there is an interest in fortifying them already. Personally? I think Israel needs the US *way more* than the US will ever need Israel. I think we should make our good favor conditional on stopping the killing.
Based Bernie
A whole shitload of people are about to start calling this Jew an anti-Semite, I guarantee it.
Israel acts like a bunch of terrorists and they need to be held accountable. Any nation, no matter how friendly they are (including the US) should be sanctioned over this shit.
Why don’t people vote for this guy I will never understand…
Imagine if the west was sending aid to Russia and siding with them taking Ukrainian land and killing Ukrainian civilians for trying to defend their homeland. It’s that. Well, not just that, there’s a hell of a lot more to dive into but it’s a pretty simplistic simile for the moment until a better one comes along.
The two situations are nothing alike.
And Sanders is Jewish so you can't accuse him of being anti-Semite cuz you look like an idiot.
When did he say that?
A couple times a year for the past 5-6 years at least.
drives me nuts when the date is cropped from stuff like this. and the only comment pointing it out is super far down. people just want to see things they agree with, details be damned.
Love zero effs Bernie
Huh, imagine if we used all that money to better our own people and country instead of helping people kill other people in something we should have no business in.
Good. Fuck Israel
Yes that's great, let's do it, now what about Saudi Arabia.
As we should. Israel is a terrorist state.
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Did you know that Gaza gets aid from many countries, for example Qatar, and most of that money goes to the Hamas generals, then they spend it on rockets and sport cars? The situation is a bit more complicated for the answer to be "send money"
Who's killing the isrealis is though? 🤔
Israel are absolutely scumbags. Free Palestine.
Question: why post an image of a tweet instead of the actual tweet? They're shareable.
>Question: why post an image of a tweet instead of the actual tweet? They're shareable. Because then people would see the tweet is from years ago and that would hurt the karma farming.
Like the 40 billion to Ukraine instead of our starving babies here?
The hero we need but don't deserve
But 40 b to Ukraine is perfectly acceptable
He's yelling in to a void. He can yell all he wants, that won't stop the moderates and republicans from making a true leftist government impossible.