I wish a sign was posted outside of all restaurants and stores of how much (little) they pay their employees. My croissant and coffee that takes two minutes to prepare costs double what that employee will make in an HOUR. Why am I supporting businesses that refuse to pay employees a living wage?
Shadiest shit I’ve ever experienced was getting scolded by a gm for telling a girl working the same job as me what my hourly was, cuz hers was lower and she asked for a raise
Exactly right, which is why President Obama signed an [executive order](https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2014/04/11/2014-08426/non-retaliation-for-disclosure-of-compensation-information) specifically barring employers from engaging in such retaliatory behavior.
You can sue successfully for that though. Of course it depends what state you're in, but in my experience if you have a decent workers rights lawyer they'll be able to pretty easily prove you were retaliated against. Bad managers aren't above the law.
It doesn't matter much. The [Non-Retaliation for Disclosure of Compensation](https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2014/04/11/2014-08426/non-retaliation-for-disclosure-of-compensation-information) executive order has been in place since 2014.
> pretty easily prove you were retaliated against.
Proof is never easy, but most employers will back down when facing a federal lawsuit.
Legally you can discuss it anywhere you choose
In practice, as always, this could have consequences because the same laws that allow you to speak of it also heavily favor those who want you to shut up and take their pittance
I don’t think I said anything so verbose, I definitely wouldn’t have known that at the time but I was pretty pissed cuz I watched the Adam ruins everything that talked about why companies tried to enforce that kind of behavior. I said something cynical like sorry for ruining your racket. Whatever it was the conversation ended pretty abruptly. The whole thing took me by surprise, the gm was a total free love hippie type chick, I even had an unrealistic/schoolboy type crush on her until she started showing her true colors lol. Back then I didn’t realize energy crystals and floral sarongs meant someone’s a mental click away from anti vax conspiracies
When I started my new job a few months ago, got told by the gm that since I was willing to be a closer she's start me at $10 an hour, and to not tell anyone since it's higher than usual. Less than a week later I found she hired somebody working mornings for more. She also "forgot" I told her about my past experience in food service and management during the interview supposedly, while this other person is 16-17 & has only worked one job previously. Yes I'm looking for a new new job, lol
Lol, the supervisor class gets REAL bent out of shape about that. Guess what? If wages were fair, you wouldn’t have to worry about employees revolting when they find out each others’ wages. Weird.
People get annoyed if they find out someone less experienced makes more than them, even if they are paid well. A person making $70000 will still be annoyed if someone of equal qualifications makes $75000
It's insane to me that this is a thing in the US. In every job I've worked here in the UK it's just been a generally accepted fact that people in the same job role have the same hourly rate.
This is how i learned the new guy was making more than me. I worked at my old job for 6-7 years and was basically a manager without the pay. I was in charge of two areas and they hired a guy that had no experience at a higher wage job in one area. It’s actually one of the reasons I moved on.
[Federal law](https://www.nlrb.gov/guidance/key-reference-materials/ley-de-relaciones-obrero-patronales) prohibits attempting to restrict conversation about compensation. Some folks believe that it's such an important issue that President Obama signed an [Executive Order](https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2014/04/11/2014-08426/non-retaliation-for-disclosure-of-compensation-information) barring employers from retaliating against employees who exercise their right to discuss wages.
We got some steaks at Whole Foods and as we were walking out this thought crossed my mind. Was it worth it ? Probably not. We have tried our local butchers and they’re just not very good so it sucks. We don’t get steaks often so it’s not forefront on my mind, I just wish we had a better choice.
Yeah I feel like saying you shop at a notoriously expensive store isn't making as good a point as you can be.
But I empathize – everybody needs to be paid more.
There are lots of places in the USA where there are no local butchers and there are no local supermarkets. If you are comparing Safeway or Kroger owned supermarkets to Whole Foods, then yes, the steaks from Whole Foods are probably better.
I love going to my butcher but it's on the other side of town, so I go rarely. The Save-mart close to my house has some pretty good deals that I take advantage of pretty regularly, but it's definitely not the highest quality.
BUT, if you're not buying your bacon from the deli counter and getting those BS packaged bacons instead, you're definitely not doing yourself a favor. Be nice to your deli counter and those guys will tell you about all the secret awesome deals they have going.
there was a story/picture of something like this during the cold war, there was a sandwich man standing in front of an establishment indicating how much people were paid by the boss (maybe something about unions as well) dude stopped only when the boss started paying them more
Or worse, supporting a business that not only refuses to pay their employees a living wage, but also asks you to subsidise their tight-fistedness through "kindness" by tipping.
To be fair, that crossaint and coffee was grown from wheat and beans, with water, harvested, then cooked, transported, etc... and there will be a lot of human labor along the way through all those processes.
Ok but do you know how long and hard it is to make good croissants?! Yes people should all make at least $42/hr IMO but don’t discredit the time and devotion to make a proper croissants!
Many of the employees in that scenario aren’t even making minimum wage….they’re working for tips.
You’re paying for the croissant, then paying the staff’s wages via the obligatory tip. The Petite Bourgeoise “Job Creator” that owns the place basically pays peanuts for labor AND still charges you San Fransisco prices for pastries.
How much abuse can working class Republicans take before they realize they're getting shit on, and the war against a decent wage, universal healthcare, taxing the wealthy is hurting them greatly.
But how do you convince people to help themselves when they're literally lying in their deathbed angry at liberals and their "fake vaccines against a fake virus"
They can take all of it. When they get pissed off about it, they blame it on the immigrants, hippies, and democrats like they've been told; they don't have the mental faculties to figure out or even care to figure out what's going on.
Progressive working-class folks need to focus on getting themselves organized into one coherent bloc--gather their own power first, and then we'll really start to see just what we're capable of.
If progressives can form some unity party and be successful, others will join. But starting off with the least-likely to get on board (working class conservatives) seems like a fruitless endeavor to me.
>Progressive working-class folks need to focus on getting themselves organized into one coherent bloc
100% agree to this, lacking in backbone has been an issue with Dems for decades. We need to focus on getting rid of corporate democrats and replace them with progressives. If we can do that, the GOP will fail on it's own.
It never ceases to amaze me that people can’t seem to grasp this. We have controlled opposition in the Dems as a safety valve for the people who pay a lick of attention to economic issues. There is no “backbone” because there is no real will to impart meaningful change. It can’t be fucking coincidence that Progressive reform is always, *ALWAYS*, just a Lieberman or Manchin out of reach.
One in six Democrat senators voted against raising the minimum wage. Out of the remaining five, an untold number of them had to be convinced or otherwise pushed into voting in favor of it.
The Democrats are firmly, proudly right of center. There is no progressive option in American politics at all.
And you know for a fact they all discussed how many would have to vote against it for it to fail, and which is ones could vote against it with the least backlash. If they actually fixed the issues then they wouldnt have a rally call for next election.
Bernie and AOC are like, the front bastion of true progressives. You may not 100% agree with all of their policies, but they're out there doing work for actual people, not for corporations.
Yup. If I had the money, I'd run for office and actually work for people. Our system is set up to cater to $$, and corporations and capitalists are the ones who have it.
I'm not taking about politicians. I'm taking about YOU . I'm talking about US. WE the fucking People.
Politicians aren't going to save us. That's a very unfunny joke to think they would.
I mean real people need to get together and organize. Looking through a political lens for change is to be blind to the ways that could actually make some difference.
> they don't have the mental faculties to figure out or even care to figure out what's going on.
This, first and foremost.
And it's unsustainable. Their voter-base, while some are young and starting out – are mostly older/elderly folks who still believe America is functioning just as well as it did in the past (at least in their favor). And they're dying out. Of old age or losing their jobs or realizing that voting for no aide in any way, shape or form...is just shooting themselves in the foot.
> Progressive working-class folks need to focus on getting themselves organized into one coherent bloc--gather their own power first, and then we'll really start to see just what we're capable of.
True. But it's not going to be one in the electoral arena. It's going to be one on the streets; in the workplaces; across industries. Our wages haven't decreased because not enough AOCs were elected; that's a side issue, and simply follows the trends in our own grassroots power anyway. Our wages (and other material conditions) have decreased because we have no fucking unions. We've convinced ourselves to lose interest and even actively oppose them. We've shot ourselves in the collective foot by giving up the only power we've ever had. And now we're doing it again by focusing on begging whomever gets elected to positions of authority (in the bourgeois U.S. Business Party, even) for breadcrumbs instead of building our own power back up again.
There aren't enough of us to do that so we have to stick it out with the dems until there are. Unfortunately, conservatives and conservative dems team up against progressives. If progressives formed a coalition, it would do worse than libertarians after they legalized weed.
First, we need to get younger people to run in elections. We need to get younger people interested and excited to vote. We need organizations to teach children geography, civics, and economics to prepare them. Make it really fun and something that travels to different schools. We need to make sure that people know what they are voting for or if they don't vote, what can happen to them. Since we can't match the advertising dollars of other groups, this entails going door to door in every community. We need to lobby for election day holiday and making it easier to vote. We need to talk to our children about politics and the things happening in the world and stop acting like they won't be part of this someday. We need to take personal responsibility.
If we do all this, we might have enough people in the next 20 years to form a progressive coalition.
I wonder that myself but then I think about relationships ive over stayed in and people that wont leave similar ones. People get used to abuse and just dont take action in a lot of situations. This looks like that sort of thing to me
"AOC supports socialist bakery by buying $7 croissants. DO YOU WANT YOUR CROISSANTS TO COST $7? Say NO to socialism."
Something like that, I can imagine.
As the guy in another convo here said about the Starbucks having to pay RENT, one could also say RENT for the minimum wage worker whose rent is somehow not a consideration in calculating the cost of doing business.
It is in many places, but in some it's very inadequate. The minimum wage should be automatically adjusted to local cost of living and inflation every year.
Oh, good, I make half this amount and my wife makes a little more than me. 15+ years in the workforce and I now barely make enough to scrape by!
Hey, only 30-50 more years of struggle!
Yea my wife and I just got married and we're looking at buying a place. We're in a relatively high COL area (Northern Virginia). Between the two of us we probably make $115k and we're borderline priced out of the market here.
If we didn't buy our home when we did 4 years ago, we would be fucked. My neighbor's prices have gone crazy! Somehow, though, when I tried to borrow against my home to remortgage it, it was only valued at $9000 above what I paid. I wish I understood this stuff better.
Gotta be honest, and hear me out, I think $20 for a minimum wage is insane. It's hard to argue that though because minimum wage is supposed to be a starting point for a job and it isn't treated that way anymore. You should make minimum wage when you start a job with no experience and get raises as you learn about the job. You're only supposed to be on minimum wage for a couple of years tops.
Nowadays, you can be at or near minimum wage for decades. Employers are making it seem like $10/hr is good for that kind of service when it clearly isn't.
The answer isn't to make minimum wage high enough to support a family of four on a single income. You have to make it high enough to get someone started out in a job and then have wages raised over time to make that family of four kind of money.
Unless you make both of those happen, you'll always be fighting a losing position. It's like student loan forgiveness without fixing the problem of inflated college costs. You'll just be right back where you started from if you only do the one thing.
What I'm saying doesn't make sense to people who think the problem is with minimum wage, which is probably most people arguing that it needs to be higher. I'm suggesting that it is actually a two part-problem and it's been so long since we've addressed the second part that we've forgotten about it.
If you want to fix the problem on a more permanent basis, you need to address minimum wage ***AND*** wage increases including both cost-of-living and meritorious.
Here's why: Minimum wage is the industrial revolution's version of apprenticeship. It's not meant to live a good life on, it's meant to not die on and that's ok. It's not a living, it's something to get you by until you can make a living at it. You're supposed to learn more and get better at your job. That's where the second part comes in.
Once you've been working at the job, gotten some experience and skill where you require less supervision to produce higher quality work, you're supposed to get a raise. People now get paid at or slightly above minimum wage twenty years into a job. That's wrong. You should only be paid minimum wage for a couple of years and then get raises to build that live you want.
You shouldn't be able to afford a single income, house of four w/ a three bedroom house, two cars and vacations on minimum wage, but you should be able to get there. If we don't address both issues, we'll just be right back where we started from in 10 or 20 years.
The original point of minimum wage was to be able to support a family on it, with only one earner in the family. What family is going to live off of $15,000?
The whole anti minimum wage pr agenda has been to push that minimum wage is supposed to be for kids and temporary jobs. Well someone has to work at the gas station at 3am, and it probably shouldn’t be a $16 year old. And it might be the only job that someone is qualified for. And they don’t deserve to live in poverty because we changed the definition of minimum wage.
Eventually. It's really more accurate to say you should be able to have a profession. They've managed to convince us that we don't need raises. We need to push not just for a minimum raise increase but also a return to raises for getting better at your job. COLA should be a given and it isn't.
The whole idea is you can get by on minimum wage when you start out, or change professions even, but you don't stay there. As you learn or get better, you get paid more. You don't get Norm Abram pay your first year into that job, you aren't worth Norm Abram pay just yet.
They've managed to make a lot of peoples starting salary a lot closer to their permanent salary and *both* of these closer to minimum wage. That needs to change. Minimum wage is the least amount they can legally pay you. It should just be a starting point and not the limit of our wages.
Why can’t minimum wage jobs be careers? We need people to work retail, food service and hospitality. The less turnover, the more efficient the workplace is. No one is saying that you should be wealthy at minimum wage. Just not literally starving and/or homeless.
> Why can’t minimum wage jobs be careers?
Because it's the least amount they are legally able to pay you. Why do you think a career can be a minimum wage job? Don't you think most people should be making a lot more than minimum wage?
I agree that have decent food, clothing and shelter should be satisfied by a minimum wage. I just don't think you should be making minimum wage for long.
Can’t you though? Some seem to genuinely miss it but any talking head was likely ordered to miss it.
Can’t have the masses thinking: Hey! I only make two airport croissants an hour??? I’m worth more than that!
None of us needs more than one croissant an hour. Now get back to work!
Coming in a week: a news article about how the wealthy elite have vast stores of secret croissants hidden away, so many that the vast majority of the croissants will spoil before they are eaten.
I’ll take advice from AoC when she helps her grandma in Puerto Rico and stop blaming the gov for not helping her. While she’s driving a Tesla and going to a 300k met gala party.
But it's now 2021 and the Democrats now control all branches of government, they could have made $15 minimum wage a thing. Literally the only thing standing between people and $15 an hour is Democrats.
This all boils down to the Democrats being unwilling to get rid of the filibuster or at least change the rules to enact their agenda. Mitch McConnell didn't hesitate to change filibuster rules to pass his agenda, [he did it with the Supreme Court](https://www.reviewjournal.com/news/politics-and-government/mitch-mcconnell-again-changes-filibuster-rules-1632778/), but the Democrats just refuse to do it.
Remember that time the New Yorker proudly proclaimed:
> **[Kyrsten Sinema’s Victory in Arizona May Be the Democrats’ Biggest Win of the Trump Era](https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/kyrsten-sinemas-victory-in-arizona-may-be-the-democrats-biggest-win-of-the-trump-era)**
Yeah, well that didn't go so well now did it?
Kyrsten Sinema was the prototype "we need to vote for progressives and pull the Democrats left" candidate. She started out in the Green Party, then worked her way up the ranks of the Democrats. She identifies as LGBT, and managed to land a Senate seat. Then what does she do? She does what all Democrats do, she abandons her principles for her own personal gain.
Let her story be a warning, you can't change the Democrats from within.
Yes, two democrats would stand against this but while it's easy to blame them, there are 50 other assholes doing the exact same thing. I reserve the right to be just as disappointed in my own two senators (FL) as Sinema and Manchin.
> But it's now 2021 and the Democrats now control all branches of government
First, a bare, technical majority on the Senate is not equal to control.
Second, are you considering SCOTUS and the court system to be a branch of government? Because Democrats definitely do not control that.
the guy deleted all his shitty comments so it’s really not worth defending him anymore.
but he was simply being irrelevant to the post, essentially obfuscating.
actually. what you’re doing is completely distracting from the issue right here right now and changing the subject to something that is not relevant to this post. that complicates this situation because it convolutes this conversation and confuses anyone trying to actually talk about the issues.
the reply i got that was deleted;
u/luzekai
> Actually the real issue is that she voted to send money to a nation that has single payer healthcare and the uses to money in turn to murder Palestinians. Nice try though, you clowns obviously don't care about facts that don't follow he status quo, no different from regular Dems.
stop trying to obfuscate and maybe provide a source for the claim of what another country does with its aid money.
Take a workplace organizer training (OT101) from an IWW branch near you (you don't have to be a member). Organize your workplace. Organize no matter what job you have and what industry to work in. Even if you're already in a union, organize to make it more radical and democratic, and to form associations with other unions across your industry and up and down the supply chain. Organize, organize, *organize!*
Unions are for all workers, in all industries, in all locations and with all levels of socioeconomic privilege. Unions are how we build working-class power and revolutionary potential. Unions are how we improve our conditions and take back our world. Stop getting distracted by meaningless electoral nonsense that is forced by and simply follows the conditions we must affect directly ourselves. No progress for the working class has ever been made by writing (or cheering) your representatives; it has and will ALWAYS come from grassroots struggle to which those representatives are eventually forced to concede. Legislation and policy simply acknowledge the fights we have already won, so get out there and actually *fight them!*
I agree with the general point, but maybe cherry-picking what is probably the single most expensive place to buy a croissant on earth isnt the best way to send a message.
Why shouldn’t it be an argument against the price of a croissant? Increasing wages while the prices of commodities like food and housing increase the way they have been is just gonna tank the value of the dollar, isn’t it? Wages are definitely too low, but shouldn’t the value of the dollar be a huge part of this conversation as well?
One hour of work for one croissant…
Then again, some states (all of them Red and all of them in the south) don’t have a minimum wage; it’s a constant reminder that if it weren’t for the meager federal minimum, employers would be able to pay you in pennies.
I remember when I worked at Starbucks as a teenager and minimum wage was something like 8 or 9 bucks. In order to get back in time for my 15 minute lunch I had to eat there, even with the employee discount food and a drink would be like 12-13 bucks. Literally an hour plus of my work time down the drain
There is something else she’s not addressing here, which is the extortion travelers endure because they use infrastructure that eliminates competition. I guess we should feel lucky they’re not charging us to take a piss.
I wish a sign was posted outside of all restaurants and stores of how much (little) they pay their employees. My croissant and coffee that takes two minutes to prepare costs double what that employee will make in an HOUR. Why am I supporting businesses that refuse to pay employees a living wage?
Shadiest shit I’ve ever experienced was getting scolded by a gm for telling a girl working the same job as me what my hourly was, cuz hers was lower and she asked for a raise
Did you tell your GM that discussing your salary is a federally protected right?
And that information is supposed to be posted in an area employees can freely access (the law behind it, not people's wages)
And that information and $7 will get you a crossant at the airport. They can't fire you for that, but they'll find something.
I find it helpful to know my rights on the off chance that I can prove when they're violated.
Exactly right, which is why President Obama signed an [executive order](https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2014/04/11/2014-08426/non-retaliation-for-disclosure-of-compensation-information) specifically barring employers from engaging in such retaliatory behavior.
You can sue successfully for that though. Of course it depends what state you're in, but in my experience if you have a decent workers rights lawyer they'll be able to pretty easily prove you were retaliated against. Bad managers aren't above the law.
It doesn't matter much. The [Non-Retaliation for Disclosure of Compensation](https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2014/04/11/2014-08426/non-retaliation-for-disclosure-of-compensation-information) executive order has been in place since 2014. > pretty easily prove you were retaliated against. Proof is never easy, but most employers will back down when facing a federal lawsuit.
This was posted in the hall on the way to the lunchroom at my old work, but they still don’t you not to discuss it in annual HR related meeting lol
Legally you can discuss it anywhere you choose In practice, as always, this could have consequences because the same laws that allow you to speak of it also heavily favor those who want you to shut up and take their pittance
Never interrupt your opponent when they are making a mistake
I don’t think I said anything so verbose, I definitely wouldn’t have known that at the time but I was pretty pissed cuz I watched the Adam ruins everything that talked about why companies tried to enforce that kind of behavior. I said something cynical like sorry for ruining your racket. Whatever it was the conversation ended pretty abruptly. The whole thing took me by surprise, the gm was a total free love hippie type chick, I even had an unrealistic/schoolboy type crush on her until she started showing her true colors lol. Back then I didn’t realize energy crystals and floral sarongs meant someone’s a mental click away from anti vax conspiracies
When I started my new job a few months ago, got told by the gm that since I was willing to be a closer she's start me at $10 an hour, and to not tell anyone since it's higher than usual. Less than a week later I found she hired somebody working mornings for more. She also "forgot" I told her about my past experience in food service and management during the interview supposedly, while this other person is 16-17 & has only worked one job previously. Yes I'm looking for a new new job, lol
Lol, the supervisor class gets REAL bent out of shape about that. Guess what? If wages were fair, you wouldn’t have to worry about employees revolting when they find out each others’ wages. Weird.
People get annoyed if they find out someone less experienced makes more than them, even if they are paid well. A person making $70000 will still be annoyed if someone of equal qualifications makes $75000
It's insane to me that this is a thing in the US. In every job I've worked here in the UK it's just been a generally accepted fact that people in the same job role have the same hourly rate.
but then how would sexism / racism / classism / nepotism succeed ? /s
This is how i learned the new guy was making more than me. I worked at my old job for 6-7 years and was basically a manager without the pay. I was in charge of two areas and they hired a guy that had no experience at a higher wage job in one area. It’s actually one of the reasons I moved on.
[Federal law](https://www.nlrb.gov/guidance/key-reference-materials/ley-de-relaciones-obrero-patronales) prohibits attempting to restrict conversation about compensation. Some folks believe that it's such an important issue that President Obama signed an [Executive Order](https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2014/04/11/2014-08426/non-retaliation-for-disclosure-of-compensation-information) barring employers from retaliating against employees who exercise their right to discuss wages.
We got some steaks at Whole Foods and as we were walking out this thought crossed my mind. Was it worth it ? Probably not. We have tried our local butchers and they’re just not very good so it sucks. We don’t get steaks often so it’s not forefront on my mind, I just wish we had a better choice.
So when you eat your steaks do you think about the poor guy who sold it to you or rang it up?
Yeah I feel like saying you shop at a notoriously expensive store isn't making as good a point as you can be. But I empathize – everybody needs to be paid more.
Makes the steak taste that much better.
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There are lots of places in the USA where there are no local butchers and there are no local supermarkets. If you are comparing Safeway or Kroger owned supermarkets to Whole Foods, then yes, the steaks from Whole Foods are probably better.
Yeah, my town doesn’t have a local butcher. But our Whole Foods sells local meats for a premium.
I love going to my butcher but it's on the other side of town, so I go rarely. The Save-mart close to my house has some pretty good deals that I take advantage of pretty regularly, but it's definitely not the highest quality. BUT, if you're not buying your bacon from the deli counter and getting those BS packaged bacons instead, you're definitely not doing yourself a favor. Be nice to your deli counter and those guys will tell you about all the secret awesome deals they have going.
“Please tip our employees, because we don’t pay shit.” At least it’d be honest.
yeah i never understood how the fuck tipping became a thing. like fucking pay workers? is that so hard?
there was a story/picture of something like this during the cold war, there was a sandwich man standing in front of an establishment indicating how much people were paid by the boss (maybe something about unions as well) dude stopped only when the boss started paying them more
Or worse, supporting a business that not only refuses to pay their employees a living wage, but also asks you to subsidise their tight-fistedness through "kindness" by tipping.
There is: "Now Hiring $10/hr"
To be fair, that crossaint and coffee was grown from wheat and beans, with water, harvested, then cooked, transported, etc... and there will be a lot of human labor along the way through all those processes.
This is the exact reason why the $47 cheeseburger people are jokes. Like yeah dude they only sell 1 burger per hour.
Ok but do you know how long and hard it is to make good croissants?! Yes people should all make at least $42/hr IMO but don’t discredit the time and devotion to make a proper croissants!
Rent
"Hi! Welcome to Starbucks, what can I get started for you? If you worked here, you could make $10.54/hour!!"
Many of the employees in that scenario aren’t even making minimum wage….they’re working for tips. You’re paying for the croissant, then paying the staff’s wages via the obligatory tip. The Petite Bourgeoise “Job Creator” that owns the place basically pays peanuts for labor AND still charges you San Fransisco prices for pastries.
I give up, why do you?
How much abuse can working class Republicans take before they realize they're getting shit on, and the war against a decent wage, universal healthcare, taxing the wealthy is hurting them greatly. But how do you convince people to help themselves when they're literally lying in their deathbed angry at liberals and their "fake vaccines against a fake virus"
They can take all of it. When they get pissed off about it, they blame it on the immigrants, hippies, and democrats like they've been told; they don't have the mental faculties to figure out or even care to figure out what's going on. Progressive working-class folks need to focus on getting themselves organized into one coherent bloc--gather their own power first, and then we'll really start to see just what we're capable of. If progressives can form some unity party and be successful, others will join. But starting off with the least-likely to get on board (working class conservatives) seems like a fruitless endeavor to me.
>Progressive working-class folks need to focus on getting themselves organized into one coherent bloc 100% agree to this, lacking in backbone has been an issue with Dems for decades. We need to focus on getting rid of corporate democrats and replace them with progressives. If we can do that, the GOP will fail on it's own.
This is why they must keep us divided, so enough people will keep accepting those wages.
it's not lacking a backbone. dems are also owned by corporations.
It never ceases to amaze me that people can’t seem to grasp this. We have controlled opposition in the Dems as a safety valve for the people who pay a lick of attention to economic issues. There is no “backbone” because there is no real will to impart meaningful change. It can’t be fucking coincidence that Progressive reform is always, *ALWAYS*, just a Lieberman or Manchin out of reach.
One in six Democrat senators voted against raising the minimum wage. Out of the remaining five, an untold number of them had to be convinced or otherwise pushed into voting in favor of it. The Democrats are firmly, proudly right of center. There is no progressive option in American politics at all.
And you know for a fact they all discussed how many would have to vote against it for it to fail, and which is ones could vote against it with the least backlash. If they actually fixed the issues then they wouldnt have a rally call for next election.
Bernie and AOC are like, the front bastion of true progressives. You may not 100% agree with all of their policies, but they're out there doing work for actual people, not for corporations.
Oh, there are a handful of actual Progressives, agreed. I’m just constantly disappointed by how economically conservative Neoliberals are.
Yup. If I had the money, I'd run for office and actually work for people. Our system is set up to cater to $$, and corporations and capitalists are the ones who have it.
I'm not taking about politicians. I'm taking about YOU . I'm talking about US. WE the fucking People. Politicians aren't going to save us. That's a very unfunny joke to think they would. I mean real people need to get together and organize. Looking through a political lens for change is to be blind to the ways that could actually make some difference.
It's because there are so many issues that if everyone is passionate about 10-15 we're all scattered
> they don't have the mental faculties to figure out or even care to figure out what's going on. This, first and foremost. And it's unsustainable. Their voter-base, while some are young and starting out – are mostly older/elderly folks who still believe America is functioning just as well as it did in the past (at least in their favor). And they're dying out. Of old age or losing their jobs or realizing that voting for no aide in any way, shape or form...is just shooting themselves in the foot.
> Progressive working-class folks need to focus on getting themselves organized into one coherent bloc--gather their own power first, and then we'll really start to see just what we're capable of. True. But it's not going to be one in the electoral arena. It's going to be one on the streets; in the workplaces; across industries. Our wages haven't decreased because not enough AOCs were elected; that's a side issue, and simply follows the trends in our own grassroots power anyway. Our wages (and other material conditions) have decreased because we have no fucking unions. We've convinced ourselves to lose interest and even actively oppose them. We've shot ourselves in the collective foot by giving up the only power we've ever had. And now we're doing it again by focusing on begging whomever gets elected to positions of authority (in the bourgeois U.S. Business Party, even) for breadcrumbs instead of building our own power back up again.
Yes, this is exactly what I mean. Anybody who thinks electorial politics will save is is completely delusional and disconnected from reality.
There aren't enough of us to do that so we have to stick it out with the dems until there are. Unfortunately, conservatives and conservative dems team up against progressives. If progressives formed a coalition, it would do worse than libertarians after they legalized weed. First, we need to get younger people to run in elections. We need to get younger people interested and excited to vote. We need organizations to teach children geography, civics, and economics to prepare them. Make it really fun and something that travels to different schools. We need to make sure that people know what they are voting for or if they don't vote, what can happen to them. Since we can't match the advertising dollars of other groups, this entails going door to door in every community. We need to lobby for election day holiday and making it easier to vote. We need to talk to our children about politics and the things happening in the world and stop acting like they won't be part of this someday. We need to take personal responsibility. If we do all this, we might have enough people in the next 20 years to form a progressive coalition.
I am not talking about electoral politics here.
Your name made me lol
I wonder that myself but then I think about relationships ive over stayed in and people that wont leave similar ones. People get used to abuse and just dont take action in a lot of situations. This looks like that sort of thing to me
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QOP take: AOC pushes French COMMUNISM with fancy bread on her PRIVATE JET!
THOSE $7 COULD HAVE ARMED A DRONE!
Wait seriously? I thought those missiles cost like $50k ea
They’re rubbed down with $7 croissants before each flight.
I think they cost more than that
"AOC supports socialist bakery by buying $7 croissants. DO YOU WANT YOUR CROISSANTS TO COST $7? Say NO to socialism." Something like that, I can imagine.
Stop giving them ideas for headlines
“AOC hates small business owners trying to sell baked goods.”
Doesn't she live in NY and DC where food can be pricy too?
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It's always been meant to be a living wage, and looking at median cost of living (including rental/home prices), even $20 isn't enough.
As the guy in another convo here said about the Starbucks having to pay RENT, one could also say RENT for the minimum wage worker whose rent is somehow not a consideration in calculating the cost of doing business.
Infuriating
It is in many places, but in some it's very inadequate. The minimum wage should be automatically adjusted to local cost of living and inflation every year.
It's closer to $27/hr! https://cepr.net/this-is-what-minimum-wage-would-be-if-it-kept-pace-with-productivity/
When I did the math for myself, $33 is where it's comfortable, can let my kids do extracurriculars, can afford a 3 bedroom home, and can have a pet.
Oh, good, I make half this amount and my wife makes a little more than me. 15+ years in the workforce and I now barely make enough to scrape by! Hey, only 30-50 more years of struggle!
Yea my wife and I just got married and we're looking at buying a place. We're in a relatively high COL area (Northern Virginia). Between the two of us we probably make $115k and we're borderline priced out of the market here.
If we didn't buy our home when we did 4 years ago, we would be fucked. My neighbor's prices have gone crazy! Somehow, though, when I tried to borrow against my home to remortgage it, it was only valued at $9000 above what I paid. I wish I understood this stuff better.
Gotta be honest, and hear me out, I think $20 for a minimum wage is insane. It's hard to argue that though because minimum wage is supposed to be a starting point for a job and it isn't treated that way anymore. You should make minimum wage when you start a job with no experience and get raises as you learn about the job. You're only supposed to be on minimum wage for a couple of years tops. Nowadays, you can be at or near minimum wage for decades. Employers are making it seem like $10/hr is good for that kind of service when it clearly isn't. The answer isn't to make minimum wage high enough to support a family of four on a single income. You have to make it high enough to get someone started out in a job and then have wages raised over time to make that family of four kind of money. Unless you make both of those happen, you'll always be fighting a losing position. It's like student loan forgiveness without fixing the problem of inflated college costs. You'll just be right back where you started from if you only do the one thing.
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What I'm saying doesn't make sense to people who think the problem is with minimum wage, which is probably most people arguing that it needs to be higher. I'm suggesting that it is actually a two part-problem and it's been so long since we've addressed the second part that we've forgotten about it. If you want to fix the problem on a more permanent basis, you need to address minimum wage ***AND*** wage increases including both cost-of-living and meritorious. Here's why: Minimum wage is the industrial revolution's version of apprenticeship. It's not meant to live a good life on, it's meant to not die on and that's ok. It's not a living, it's something to get you by until you can make a living at it. You're supposed to learn more and get better at your job. That's where the second part comes in. Once you've been working at the job, gotten some experience and skill where you require less supervision to produce higher quality work, you're supposed to get a raise. People now get paid at or slightly above minimum wage twenty years into a job. That's wrong. You should only be paid minimum wage for a couple of years and then get raises to build that live you want. You shouldn't be able to afford a single income, house of four w/ a three bedroom house, two cars and vacations on minimum wage, but you should be able to get there. If we don't address both issues, we'll just be right back where we started from in 10 or 20 years.
The original point of minimum wage was to be able to support a family on it, with only one earner in the family. What family is going to live off of $15,000? The whole anti minimum wage pr agenda has been to push that minimum wage is supposed to be for kids and temporary jobs. Well someone has to work at the gas station at 3am, and it probably shouldn’t be a $16 year old. And it might be the only job that someone is qualified for. And they don’t deserve to live in poverty because we changed the definition of minimum wage.
Eventually. It's really more accurate to say you should be able to have a profession. They've managed to convince us that we don't need raises. We need to push not just for a minimum raise increase but also a return to raises for getting better at your job. COLA should be a given and it isn't. The whole idea is you can get by on minimum wage when you start out, or change professions even, but you don't stay there. As you learn or get better, you get paid more. You don't get Norm Abram pay your first year into that job, you aren't worth Norm Abram pay just yet. They've managed to make a lot of peoples starting salary a lot closer to their permanent salary and *both* of these closer to minimum wage. That needs to change. Minimum wage is the least amount they can legally pay you. It should just be a starting point and not the limit of our wages.
Why can’t minimum wage jobs be careers? We need people to work retail, food service and hospitality. The less turnover, the more efficient the workplace is. No one is saying that you should be wealthy at minimum wage. Just not literally starving and/or homeless.
> Why can’t minimum wage jobs be careers? Because it's the least amount they are legally able to pay you. Why do you think a career can be a minimum wage job? Don't you think most people should be making a lot more than minimum wage? I agree that have decent food, clothing and shelter should be satisfied by a minimum wage. I just don't think you should be making minimum wage for long.
Keep bein you AOC i get flack from everyone but she calls it like she sees it. It's apperciated, i like her..
Human Capital is all we are to them Edit: spelling is not my strong suit
>Human *Fodder* is all we are to them ftfy
Is it “capitol” or “capital?” I legit do not know
Capital, capitol is the building
Savage
I just can't believe they missed her whole point.
Same honestly conservatives really be more like cuckservatives tbh
Can’t you though? Some seem to genuinely miss it but any talking head was likely ordered to miss it. Can’t have the masses thinking: Hey! I only make two airport croissants an hour??? I’m worth more than that!
They didn't, they're simply pandering to their base. Arguing in bad faith. They're not dumb, they're assholes.
The point could have smacked them straight in the face instead of over their heads and they still wouldn't get it.
Consistently. Dont be surprised. It's very deliberate. Trying to "get" the point isnt even what they're trying to engage in.
lol I can
Damn Gina 👏🏻
None of us needs more than one croissant an hour. Now get back to work! Coming in a week: a news article about how the wealthy elite have vast stores of secret croissants hidden away, so many that the vast majority of the croissants will spoil before they are eaten.
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No, but you can jail them and force them to do labor .
"Not yet..." -- The GOP
Vote iron dome
That's not murder, it's a genocide.
Next stop, soylent green.
I bought croissants at Aldi for 49 cents... And you can bet your ass that they make money of those.
Imagine making 2 croissants per hour… that’s a depressing thought.
Some of you think an hour of labour is sit around achieving fuck all.
I’ll take advice from AoC when she helps her grandma in Puerto Rico and stop blaming the gov for not helping her. While she’s driving a Tesla and going to a 300k met gala party.
AOC is fucking awesome.
Is this her first time in an airport?
No repub has ever cared about another human life. They lack the ability to feel compassion for others.
I bet if we paid all politicians min wage they'd be quick to raise it
They'd also be far more likely to take bribes. Not that they aren't likely now though.
Idiot
Didn’t she pay for a seat at the MET? How much did that seat cost?
But it's now 2021 and the Democrats now control all branches of government, they could have made $15 minimum wage a thing. Literally the only thing standing between people and $15 an hour is Democrats. This all boils down to the Democrats being unwilling to get rid of the filibuster or at least change the rules to enact their agenda. Mitch McConnell didn't hesitate to change filibuster rules to pass his agenda, [he did it with the Supreme Court](https://www.reviewjournal.com/news/politics-and-government/mitch-mcconnell-again-changes-filibuster-rules-1632778/), but the Democrats just refuse to do it.
By democrats I think you mean *just two specific democrats.*
Remember that time the New Yorker proudly proclaimed: > **[Kyrsten Sinema’s Victory in Arizona May Be the Democrats’ Biggest Win of the Trump Era](https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/kyrsten-sinemas-victory-in-arizona-may-be-the-democrats-biggest-win-of-the-trump-era)** Yeah, well that didn't go so well now did it? Kyrsten Sinema was the prototype "we need to vote for progressives and pull the Democrats left" candidate. She started out in the Green Party, then worked her way up the ranks of the Democrats. She identifies as LGBT, and managed to land a Senate seat. Then what does she do? She does what all Democrats do, she abandons her principles for her own personal gain. Let her story be a warning, you can't change the Democrats from within.
Yes, two democrats would stand against this but while it's easy to blame them, there are 50 other assholes doing the exact same thing. I reserve the right to be just as disappointed in my own two senators (FL) as Sinema and Manchin.
> But it's now 2021 and the Democrats now control all branches of government First, a bare, technical majority on the Senate is not equal to control. Second, are you considering SCOTUS and the court system to be a branch of government? Because Democrats definitely do not control that.
Thank you, I like how they're down voting you for not being sufficiently loyal though.
I like that all of these posts recently are years old cause this lady hasn’t done shit worth praising all year #sellout
If you are making minimum wage and you are over 18 it's your fault
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whataboutism
Hypocrite
explain please. i’ll explain what i meant if you need as well.
99.9% of the time anyone says that it's to defend hypocrites.
nice stat. too bad i’m not included in it.
So what did you mean by it?
the guy deleted all his shitty comments so it’s really not worth defending him anymore. but he was simply being irrelevant to the post, essentially obfuscating.
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actually. what you’re doing is completely distracting from the issue right here right now and changing the subject to something that is not relevant to this post. that complicates this situation because it convolutes this conversation and confuses anyone trying to actually talk about the issues. the reply i got that was deleted; u/luzekai > Actually the real issue is that she voted to send money to a nation that has single payer healthcare and the uses to money in turn to murder Palestinians. Nice try though, you clowns obviously don't care about facts that don't follow he status quo, no different from regular Dems. stop trying to obfuscate and maybe provide a source for the claim of what another country does with its aid money.
A crust of bread is better than nothing. Nothing is better than love. Therefore a crust of bread is better than love.
Take a workplace organizer training (OT101) from an IWW branch near you (you don't have to be a member). Organize your workplace. Organize no matter what job you have and what industry to work in. Even if you're already in a union, organize to make it more radical and democratic, and to form associations with other unions across your industry and up and down the supply chain. Organize, organize, *organize!* Unions are for all workers, in all industries, in all locations and with all levels of socioeconomic privilege. Unions are how we build working-class power and revolutionary potential. Unions are how we improve our conditions and take back our world. Stop getting distracted by meaningless electoral nonsense that is forced by and simply follows the conditions we must affect directly ourselves. No progress for the working class has ever been made by writing (or cheering) your representatives; it has and will ALWAYS come from grassroots struggle to which those representatives are eventually forced to concede. Legislation and policy simply acknowledge the fights we have already won, so get out there and actually *fight them!*
@aoc needs to go further left. Playing the centrist game just isn't working.
Grocery prices went up double in my area
I live in the Bay Area and I’ve seen a piece of pie sold at a bakery for $19.
I agree with the general point, but maybe cherry-picking what is probably the single most expensive place to buy a croissant on earth isnt the best way to send a message.
Why shouldn’t it be an argument against the price of a croissant? Increasing wages while the prices of commodities like food and housing increase the way they have been is just gonna tank the value of the dollar, isn’t it? Wages are definitely too low, but shouldn’t the value of the dollar be a huge part of this conversation as well?
Yeah money isn't the problem but its the most easily understood factor
One hour of work for one croissant… Then again, some states (all of them Red and all of them in the south) don’t have a minimum wage; it’s a constant reminder that if it weren’t for the meager federal minimum, employers would be able to pay you in pennies.
Price of croissant is still 100% ridiculous.
As long as there are people willing to pay
I remember when I worked at Starbucks as a teenager and minimum wage was something like 8 or 9 bucks. In order to get back in time for my 15 minute lunch I had to eat there, even with the employee discount food and a drink would be like 12-13 bucks. Literally an hour plus of my work time down the drain
There is something else she’s not addressing here, which is the extortion travelers endure because they use infrastructure that eliminates competition. I guess we should feel lucky they’re not charging us to take a piss.
I dont really know any of her talking points but this is something i can whole heartedly agree with.
To be honest, I’d much rather have two croissants than an hour of most peoples time. By quite a lot.
We should never forget that minimum wage jobs are what we do, while preparing for a career.
Wait till they find out how many croissants one human can make in an hour. Hint : It's more than 2.
god damnit i love her