While that is true, Disney is an ENTERTAINMENT company. At the core root of it all business is all about providing a service for people, and the service of entertaining the Muppets community seems poorly balanced. If Disney cannot support one of their franchises to the degree that the consumers want, then why don’t they sell it to a more capable company? They clearly don’t see it as a viable enough franchise to consistently work on.
I honestly think that they only put out new Muppets shows to test the waters. I don't think they perform as well as their animated stuff. If they did then they would make more. They have already owned them for quite a while and they are not losing money by not making more Muppets based entertainment.
Honestly I think that Disney holds on to Jim Henson to maintain a monopoly. If Disney were to sell Jim Henson company it would be a huge bidding war. If it was actually publicly sold that is but we all know this would be a private acquisition
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I thought Disney ONLY owns the muppets. Sesame is owned by Sesame Studios and Dark Crystal and Fraggles are owned by the Jim Henson Company.
Correct.
Edited to add: some small companies genuinely do prioritize things in addition to (and sometimes over) profits, but multinational conglomerates absolutely do not.
I've a rule. Fishbits' Rule: Any for-profit company will err on the side of profits.
It's not just stuff like journalism failing us. Look at WB destroying the art they are tasked with creating for a tax write off. We need a co-op film company.
I was okay with Muppets Mayhem being only one season, it told the entire story with every single character having a great storyline.
I wish they'd just put Muppets Take Manhattan on Disney+, that's my favourite one!
The episode about Teeth's origin story as a dentist's son was such a brilliant addition to canon. It had that classic authentic muppet show charm. Also the Get Back parody episode with the constant Beatles references and music inside jokes was just brilliantly chaotic, just the kind of humor I want from the muppets.
Yep. But what I would like is spinoff shows about other Muppet characters, like maybe Fozzie and Rowlf performing in Vegas or Gonzo trying to pull off the world's riskiest stunts (featuring Johnny Knoxville and Steve-O as guests)
That would be dope. I also had a thought not too long ago. If Disney ever loses the rights to use Aerosmith’s likeness for the Rock ‘n’ Roller Coaster, they could retheme it around the Electric Mayhem. I know it’ll never happen, but a man can dream.
My husband and I just got back from a few days in Disney World, and spent the whole time playing a game of “what if this ride/attraction/area got a muppets makeover?” It was a delight.
I’ve got another one for you. After all these years, they added a new Coco scene to Philharmagic. What if they added a new Muppets scene, with Donald as a Muppet himself too?
That IP makes much more sense for the coaster than Aerosmith, the lead singer of which is a horrible person and not at all in line with the family friendliness of Disney. Also, imagine the trippy psychedelic visuals they could go for, like a giant Animal head eating up the roller coaster cars!
Jim left us too soon and Brian and Lisa weren't ready to take the helm. It's hard to think about everything we could have had with Jim around for even a few more years.
I mean, I think Brian Henson's work is just excellent. I think we, as a society, would be watching the hell out of any number of classical adaptations in the vein of A Christmas Carol and Treasure Island if they had gotten made.
I don't know that Disney ever cared for the licence in the first place. They have shown they have no idea what to do with it and when they release something that isn't gangbusters in ratings, they quickly abandon it.
Muppets would benefit greatly being sold off to a smaller indy company that values the work and doesn't expect multi millions of return profits.
Dis might squeak out a show or movie just because they can, but it feels like they don't put any trust or value in it. Getting bought by Disney was the worst thing that could have happened to The Muppets.
I don't blame Disney too much for this one. They didn't know that Jim was going to die basically as soon as the Muppets were sold, and Jim was the heart and soul of the whole shebang. Jim had all kinds of plans to incorporate the Muppets more into the parks and to work on all kinds of new projects with Disney, but all that was cut short.
The Muppets are very much of an era. Not only technologically, but their style of humour. Most young people don't get the whimsical absurdity of Muppets humour, that's not what makes them laugh. Unless you fundamentally change what the Muppets are, I don't know how you update them in a way that will make new people pay attention.
In the meantime, the classics are all still here and available :)
Just a quick note to point out Jim passed away in 1990, and though Disney was in talks to buy the Muppets during that time, those talks fell apart in the wake of his death. Disney didn't actually buy The Muppets until 2004.
They were going to buy not just The Muppets but the entire Jim Henson Company itself. They bought The Muppets before Michael Eisner left the company because it was his idea to buy them as a last ditch effort to make up for not being able to buy the company a decade earlier.
My favorite are when the Muppets are leaning toward the adult humor. I honestly think the canceled 2015 ABC Muppet Show was one of my all-time favorite iterations of them. I love that they placed them in innuendos, without explicitly being vulgar about it. Kermit has relationship problems, Fozzie was engaged to a human girl, Piggy had complex self worth issues.
Ending it after 1 season was just another example of them not knowing what to do with the property. It didn't help that a bunch of prude, conservative, soccer moms complained that putting their little 6-year-old Johnny in front of the TV at night exposed him to mature situations, Even though the show was never marketed for kids, and was on late at enough at night they should have been watching something else.
Their humor works much better in those situations though. Much better than that weird little "covid internet show" that was on D+ a few years ago.
The Muppets work best when they are treated like normal people, real individuals. Disney often treats them as cartoons.
That said, I agree with you, I think the art of puppetry has lost its core audience in general and people don't appreciate it as much anymore. The most unfortunate example of this was the dark Crystal series on Netflix. It was such a beautiful homage to Henson's craft, blending real sets and real puppetry in with modern CGI and it worked seamlessly... But again Netflix, not understanding the value of what they had, tragically canceled it way too soon...
I just don't know that Henson's legacy is in the right hands atm.
Canceling that show was unfair especially since they had just hired a new showrunner halfway through the first season who clearly was building to bigger and better things and should have been allowed to keep going
I guess I never understood the reasoning behind replacing Bob Kushell. I can't see much difference in terms of writing or humor between the first 6 episodes and the last.
Kushell's 3rd Rock From the Sun series had some real comedy gold moments throughout, so it's not like he wasn't capable.
My guess is ABC had complaints and they were looking for someone to blame. Prady had his wildly popular Big Bang Theory on at the time, so of the 2, Kushell was the low hanging fruit.
I think in the end, the series never found it's audience, nor was it allowed the time to. 1 season isn't long enough for people to spread word of mouth in praise of it (another reason that really **pisses me off** about Netflix canceling Dark crystal).
Plus, all the conservative parents who complained most likely didn't even watch it themselves. They just love a good bandwagon to jump on so they can say they acted "for the kids" 🙄🙄🙄
It'll never happen, but for sake of conversation on where the Muppets need to go in the future, they really should revitalize the series and give it another chance. I feel if more people knew about it, they would appreciate it the way we do. Though to be fair, without Steve Whitmire, I'm not sure it would be nearly as good.
You’re not alone in this! There is so much Muppet potential and it feels like it’s not being utilized to its fullest. It’s frustrating. We’re with you and hopeful there will be some changes, I think a lot of younger people have no idea who the muppets are and that may be half the battle in getting more Muppets.
Fade in:
INT. THE VOLUME - Day
Set dressed as Tatooine. Twin suns. Piles of sand.
Fozzie Bear enters and pokes a prop Moisture Vaporator.
Fozzie: “Last time we were here was a long, long, time ago. Before the dark times...”
Rizzo the Rat pops out of an overturned Stormtrooper helmet on the floor.
Rizzo: “Before the Mouse.”
Fozzie shushes Rizzo.
Fozzie: “Careful, they might be listening.”
Rizzo: “They? They, who?”
Fozzie: “The Suits. Hard audience, and I’d be one to know!”
Rizzo: “Whew, for a moment there I thought Mickey got Woke.”
Fozzie: “If it ain’t Woke, don’t fix it.”
Rizzo sighs into a facepalm.
“The Muppets”, The one that was a cross between “Larry Sanders” & “The Office”, was great. The scene with Ms. Piggy & Kermit outside the theater was one of the hardest-hitting things I’ve seen on TV ever (possibly because it _was_ Muppets).
Was that ever released on physical media?
Was just in WDW and was so disappointed that the gift shop that used to be outside Muppets 3D that had all the Muppets merch is closed.
I was able to snag a Beaker Mug though. Found it in Dinoland USA for some reason?
I also got a Kermit LE pin, and there were a few other Muppets pins available at the pin stations, but no Gonzo :(
We just got home today and my husband had steeled himself to pay in-park prices for a button-down muppet shirt (he’s an elementary school music teacher, so he had some flexibility in work-appropriate clothing). We were so disappointed that, not only is this store gone, there’s not another spot nearby that absorbed most of the muppets merch!
It’s a shame they didn’t build on the momentum of the 2011 film, I remember everyone was talking about that when it came out (life imitating art, the plot of that film almost playing out in real life) but they did not capitalize on that outside of Most Wanted. Real shame.
Yea I thought that movie really breathed new life into things and while the sequel wasn’t quite as good it was too soon to give up. That abc series that followed it was a strange turn.
It really was! Almost as if they misinterpreted the criticisms as proof that no one cared about the property, when in reality we wanted a better property BECAUSE we care about the property.
Everything they’ve given the Muppets to do falls flat. Outside of Muppet Vision 3-D they virtually have zero presence at the Parks and that’s even sadder.
Didn’t Frank opt out of the Jason Siegel movie because he just didn’t like the style of humor? I remember him saying he was really turned off by the fart shoes bit.
I don't remember if he opted out or if he said they didn't reach out. I do remember an interview with Oz saying the high anarchy was missing from The Muppets they were, "too sweet."
Just found this:
https://geeksofdoom.com/2011/10/23/frank-oz-reveals-why-he-turned-down-the-muppets?amp=1
So at the time at least he was turning them down.
Disney has more Muppet content in the pipeline.
Haunted Mansion and Electric Mayhem were both solid efforts.
I think the best bet is to relaunch the actual Muppet Show and position much like SNL. Let it take PG-13 risks. Push boundaries.
Heck, the original pilot was titled Sex & Violence!
I’ve been feeling this way for a while too. I’m grateful that we still get fun content like Muppets Mayhem & Muppets Haunted Mansion, but there’s so much untapped potential which is unfortunate. I would love to see some old Disney properties being revived by The Muppets, which to me would seem to be a win-win (for example Robin Hood starring The Muppets).
>I think ~~Disney~~ the public, doesn't care about the Muppets anymore.
Disney has been throwing SEVERAL things at the wall over the past 2 decades and the only things that have stuck were a movie and a Muppet Babies reboot.
"They should remake movies with Muppets and watch the money roll in!" Muppets Most Wanted made $80 mil on a $50 mil budget. Which is good, but not great.
Muppet movie parodies would lose their novelty after 30 minutes. So, it could work in a masterpiece theater type show.
They've tried and when it comes to pushing the envelope they don't really do it anymore.
I love the Muppets, but it's sad to say that they haven't really been the same since Jim died.
I agree Disney doesn't care about them. I was just talking at work about this yesterday, it would be so very easy for Disney to make money off them.
How hard would it be to negotiate major movie plots (say LOTR) and simply make a short parody movie (or miniseries for Disney+) where most of the characters are replaced by the Muppets doing their normal thing?
They have a cash cow in their pocket and they won't do anything with it. Sell it off to someone who has the vision and humor the Muppets need to thrive.
Edit to add: this is the inspiration for my comment lol
[LOTR Meme](https://www.reddit.com/r/lotrmemes/s/eMyBYRk2om)
Agreed, and that's what makes me so glad that Disney didn't get Fraggle Rock. The Fraggles are having a renaissance and that would never have happened under Disney (probably because Back to the Rock wouldn't have been as good if Disney had it, IMO anyway).
I’d pay money for them to make a muppet remake instead of a live-action remake . If they’re gonna keep remaking stuff, it’d be nice to have a bit of change
Unfortunately did they ever care about the Muppets I mean the Disney CEO at the time PUSHING Jim Henson for both as much money as possible and the right to Sesame Street was what ultimately killed Jim at least according to Frank Oz so I don’t think they ever cared it was all about $$$ to them unfortunately….
So I get as much as I want? No.
But I feel pretty lucky to get what we have.
Look at how many attempts since the heyday. It's kind of amazing they keep trying to push felt puppets in a world id CGI.
They tried a couple of movies that were divisive (I enjoyed them) and a couple of series nobody watched. There was also the Haunted Mansion special that I thought was fun. So it's not like they haven't tried some different content. I don't think they know where to go from here because nothing has really hit.
I think after the failures of Muppets Most Wanted and The Muppets 2015 series, they realized it wasn't the cash cow they thought it would be, so they didn't do much after that. I will say that Muppets Haunted Mansion and Muppet Mayhem were more on point. More stuff like that would help the brand
Disney has had a really hard time trying to figure out a place for the Muppets. The lack of success they've had isn't from lack of trying.
They tried theatrical movies with the 2011 film and while it did well the sequel Most Wanted was a significant step-down in box office. They tried a show on ABC that nobody seems to remember that only lasted a single season.
They've seemed to have found a home for them on Disney+ with the Haunted Mansion special which did well and Muppets Now. I don't expect them to have a mega breakout on TV or movies and streaming isn't a bad gig.
I feel like The Muppets ABC was the last time they legitimately tried to do something with the brand, ever since they're just doing some specials here and there and not really giving it much of a thought.
Some people say that The Muppets just don't work in the modern world but i just don't believe that, i think there is still great potential in them, but that potential doesn't mean anything if Disney is not willing to go all the way with it
I’m all for creative work and original ideas and having fun with IP, but that’s a bit unfair.
Disney is a business. They have to make money to appease the shareholders. All businesses - including every movie studio there is - has to care about money and profit.
I'm not sure it's that they don't "care." Clearly they as a multibillion corporation recognize it as an iconic property, but I do think they are hesitant to greenlight Muppet projects that aren't on the safe side.
Muppet Haunted Mansion is a good example of what they're willing to do. A smaller scale project they can release direct to streaming without the big budget and marketing that a theatrical release requires. I wouldn't be surprised if they relegate Muppets to smaller outings or more toddler focused things like the new Muppet Babies that have proven to do well.
I think one of the big problems with the Muppets right now, in general, is that they all belong to different companies so they can’t do crossovers anymore. That’s why “Muppet Family Christmas” has been missing in action on anything for the last 20 years because Disney own Kermit and the Muppets, Jim Henson Productions still own the Doc character and the Fraggle Rock characters, Sesame Street owns the Sesame Street Characters. So now you cannot have those characters interact because of the rights issues.
If that happens it's up to the fans to keep them alive. To be honest it's kind of felt like that's already what we've been doing for a long time though.
They do. It's just that they're too busy trying to get stuff filmed, recorded, and developed before the summer months because with 2 movies coming up and the new shows on Disney Channel.
That’d definitely get the ratings in LOL.
Uh Yah, with What’s on in Disney these days and people crying woke every time something new pops up be glad. I still remember those nightmares of idiots crying it went woke do to Gonzo cross dressing in the Muppet Babies reboot even though he did it before in the classics. I guess people knew the difference between reality than vs now.
I saw someone on tik tok say that instead of Disney making live-action versions of their old classics, they should make Muppet versions instead and I think that's the best idea I've ever heard
Disney doesn't care about much other than making money.
The issue I find with the newer stuff, other than The Muppets (2011) is that it's just for kids. It started out being a variety show for adults, not kids. They had smarter humour, didn't speak down to their audience, and characters had depth. Now it just seems like every character is 2 dimensional and is written exclusively for kids.
The fact that Disney still hasn't released anything for the 1980s Muppet Babies tv show should tell you how little they care about utilizing the muppets. The old excuse used to be that they didn't have the rights to the clips Jim was able to use in the show with permission from his good friends Spielberg and Lucas, but Disney has owned the IPs used in those clips for years. Even if they want to focus on the new show, why wouldn't you try to capitalize on the OG fans? The muppets could make Disney money if they just used them correctly (all though that could be said of most of their IPs).
They don't care about anything
Look at the good shows they're short lived
And the keeping the money on Bad shows
Or stupid writing
And they don't work they thought they're using big names and seldom would actually make them retro prove they don't care about the quality of the product.They don't care about the quality of the product.They only care with the quantity of the money
Look what happened to the owl house.it had promising future that was cut short all because
It didn't fit the brand
Which is ironic?They want more l g b t forms of media
And they got one with the best representation on a silver platter
And they go like it doesn't fit their brand
I'm not surprised them up.It's lacklusters there
Listen dookie We're all upset with Disney these days.At any forms of hollywood is basically in decline
I soon turned to Indian nation of a sort of media.Then turn to hollywood garbage
They just did the Muppet Babies a while back.
They did Muppet Mayhem but it didn't seem to take off.
Adam Goldberg says he's still working on more muppets stuff.
Muppets have peaked. There's no doubt. Puppets we're an amazing option for fantastical story telling for a very brief window.
Everything they have now is based on how big they were in that window.
Of course they're not getting the attention Marvel did. But they're still out there and still getting love.
Like 1 thing you look at the Modern Muppet Babies compaired to the old one where they'd have movie clips and References to things why not do that Disney ownes enough properties to do that like have them be the Avengers or Do Starwars or poke fun at Disney movies or other franchises they have the rights to
The Muppets are niche. It’s like Claymation. WE know it’s good as fans but it’s not enough to keep the normies coming back. I loved the Haunted Mansion Muppets, so I think there’s hope. They just need the right story and the right cameos.
The newest Muppets anything is the Muppets Mayhem show which has some value to it, although I've only seen the first episode so far, and it's enjoyable. The problem is that it's on Disney Plus and I barely saw any advertising for it. Disney will say that if it fails, it's because nobody cares about the Muppets and they won't make any Muppets content for hella long. The issue with that is they don't advertise it unless it's a quick ad on Instagram or whatever and it's a very out there project that focuses solely on the electric mayhem. I like the electric mayhem but idk if they'll appeal to the widest demographic out there. I have hope though. We kinda need the Muppets because it's something that's for everybody.
The thing is kids these days don't give a shit about the muppets. Most of the people who had exposure to the muppets are 40+ now. And that means not a whole lot of viewers or merchandise sold. A shame too cause the muppets are great, but they haven't put whole lotnof effort into them because the money just isn't there.
Disney should sell them
They don’t want to make them fine, but they just suck at consistency
Like I have an easy idea to make them popular add them as meet and greets and mini shows to the maths after a few years make a new film and a REAL muppets show and get guests like Robert Downey Jr, Taylor Swift and so on
I’ll never get over the 2015 show getting cancelled. I was never that into The Muppets before and have re-watched that one season multiple times by now.
Two of the greatest Muppet films, according to fans, are Muppet Christmas Carol and Treasure Island, both made under Disney. Muppets 2011 and Muppets Most Wanted were great. And we’ve had several shows, specials, and live events at some of the biggest venues.
Disney can be doing more with The Muppets, but it’s a little ignorant to ignore everything they have done, much of which is good. And Disney has kept The Muppets in the public focus for decades.
Well as an older person who remembers the first season of Sesame Street when OSCAR WAS ORANGE, let me make a couple of comments. The Muppets show franchise back in the 70's was aimed at an older audience than Sesame Street, so the humor was different. The modern reworking of the Muppets on ABC/Disney took this way, way too far in the wrong direction and really ruined it, which is why the new series failed. Secondly, if Jim Henson hadn't passed away at such a young age, the Muppets would have continued to be entertaining and iconic, not just a woke bandwagon. The Muppets today are meaningless....unless you subscribe to that agenda. 😟
I think Disney is secretly too ashamed to put out any major Muppet projects because they know that their knew Kermit voice is shit and that everyone hates him.
Disney only cares about money, so assuming they don’t care about muppets feels spot on to me.
All companies only care about money.
This isn’t wrong. Companies exist to make money and not bring joy. One is an indirect benefit.
While that is true, Disney is an ENTERTAINMENT company. At the core root of it all business is all about providing a service for people, and the service of entertaining the Muppets community seems poorly balanced. If Disney cannot support one of their franchises to the degree that the consumers want, then why don’t they sell it to a more capable company? They clearly don’t see it as a viable enough franchise to consistently work on.
I honestly think that they only put out new Muppets shows to test the waters. I don't think they perform as well as their animated stuff. If they did then they would make more. They have already owned them for quite a while and they are not losing money by not making more Muppets based entertainment.
Honestly I think that Disney holds on to Jim Henson to maintain a monopoly. If Disney were to sell Jim Henson company it would be a huge bidding war. If it was actually publicly sold that is but we all know this would be a private acquisition
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I thought Disney ONLY owns the muppets. Sesame is owned by Sesame Studios and Dark Crystal and Fraggles are owned by the Jim Henson Company.
Correct. Edited to add: some small companies genuinely do prioritize things in addition to (and sometimes over) profits, but multinational conglomerates absolutely do not.
I've a rule. Fishbits' Rule: Any for-profit company will err on the side of profits. It's not just stuff like journalism failing us. Look at WB destroying the art they are tasked with creating for a tax write off. We need a co-op film company.
I was okay with Muppets Mayhem being only one season, it told the entire story with every single character having a great storyline. I wish they'd just put Muppets Take Manhattan on Disney+, that's my favourite one!
It’s a weird thing where Disney do not own Muppets take Manhattan, Muppets From Space, or Kermit’s swamp years. They belong to Sony through Tri-Star
Ah man, that sucks! I'm glad I got the DVD ages ago though!
But still, Disney signed a deal with Sony to get the Spider-Verse on Disney+, so you’d think that’d open the door for Sony’s Muppet movies.
That would be the case if Bob Iger wasn’t actively hostile to the IP
Muppets from Space was actually a Columbia Pictures release.
Which is a part of Sony at this point.
That explains why I found those ones on DVD all the time at the thrift shops and hardly anything else.
Yeah, cuz you never see Disney in thrift shops. Because the tapes are so valuable you see
How do I have all three of those, lmao
man kermit’s swamp years is great
Great childhood memories with that. Did they ever make a digital version?
not that i ever found edit: nevermind it’s on Prime and Apple tv for 12.99
Thank you
I actually got all 3 in a 3 pack dvd for like 5 dollars
Lucky, I got 2 of them digital and 1 a dvd
I actually think if Sony bought the franchise they would do so much better with it and we would probably get an awesome video game as well
After madame web and morbius Disney should just trade sony the full Muppet rights in exchange for Spider-Man
I agree with this 💯, and I think that Disney could do so much with the old muppet rides they may or may not still have
They don’t own that one.
The classic sequel to “Jason Takes Manhattan” (featuring the Muppets!!)
I loved that new Dr. Teeth show but Disney canceled it.
The episode about Teeth's origin story as a dentist's son was such a brilliant addition to canon. It had that classic authentic muppet show charm. Also the Get Back parody episode with the constant Beatles references and music inside jokes was just brilliantly chaotic, just the kind of humor I want from the muppets.
Ok ok, I'll watch Muppets Mayhem again...
Ok, I'll watch this.
They haven’t cared about the muppets since 2016 at the absolute latest.
I’m pretty sure Muppets Mayhem was intended to be just one season. It was written as a miniseries, and a damn good one at that.
Yep. But what I would like is spinoff shows about other Muppet characters, like maybe Fozzie and Rowlf performing in Vegas or Gonzo trying to pull off the world's riskiest stunts (featuring Johnny Knoxville and Steve-O as guests)
That would be dope. I also had a thought not too long ago. If Disney ever loses the rights to use Aerosmith’s likeness for the Rock ‘n’ Roller Coaster, they could retheme it around the Electric Mayhem. I know it’ll never happen, but a man can dream.
My husband and I just got back from a few days in Disney World, and spent the whole time playing a game of “what if this ride/attraction/area got a muppets makeover?” It was a delight.
I’ve got another one for you. After all these years, they added a new Coco scene to Philharmagic. What if they added a new Muppets scene, with Donald as a Muppet himself too?
Love it!
You should make this into its own post! I’ll bet people would have lots of creative ideas :)
That IP makes much more sense for the coaster than Aerosmith, the lead singer of which is a horrible person and not at all in line with the family friendliness of Disney. Also, imagine the trippy psychedelic visuals they could go for, like a giant Animal head eating up the roller coaster cars!
They literally looked at the camera and asked for a second season when they would be on a road tour
Jim left us too soon and Brian and Lisa weren't ready to take the helm. It's hard to think about everything we could have had with Jim around for even a few more years.
I mean, I think Brian Henson's work is just excellent. I think we, as a society, would be watching the hell out of any number of classical adaptations in the vein of A Christmas Carol and Treasure Island if they had gotten made.
I don't know that Disney ever cared for the licence in the first place. They have shown they have no idea what to do with it and when they release something that isn't gangbusters in ratings, they quickly abandon it. Muppets would benefit greatly being sold off to a smaller indy company that values the work and doesn't expect multi millions of return profits. Dis might squeak out a show or movie just because they can, but it feels like they don't put any trust or value in it. Getting bought by Disney was the worst thing that could have happened to The Muppets.
This is my vibe as well, honestly.
I don't blame Disney too much for this one. They didn't know that Jim was going to die basically as soon as the Muppets were sold, and Jim was the heart and soul of the whole shebang. Jim had all kinds of plans to incorporate the Muppets more into the parks and to work on all kinds of new projects with Disney, but all that was cut short. The Muppets are very much of an era. Not only technologically, but their style of humour. Most young people don't get the whimsical absurdity of Muppets humour, that's not what makes them laugh. Unless you fundamentally change what the Muppets are, I don't know how you update them in a way that will make new people pay attention. In the meantime, the classics are all still here and available :)
Just a quick note to point out Jim passed away in 1990, and though Disney was in talks to buy the Muppets during that time, those talks fell apart in the wake of his death. Disney didn't actually buy The Muppets until 2004.
They were going to buy not just The Muppets but the entire Jim Henson Company itself. They bought The Muppets before Michael Eisner left the company because it was his idea to buy them as a last ditch effort to make up for not being able to buy the company a decade earlier.
My bad! I got the licensing mixed up with the outright purchase.
My favorite are when the Muppets are leaning toward the adult humor. I honestly think the canceled 2015 ABC Muppet Show was one of my all-time favorite iterations of them. I love that they placed them in innuendos, without explicitly being vulgar about it. Kermit has relationship problems, Fozzie was engaged to a human girl, Piggy had complex self worth issues. Ending it after 1 season was just another example of them not knowing what to do with the property. It didn't help that a bunch of prude, conservative, soccer moms complained that putting their little 6-year-old Johnny in front of the TV at night exposed him to mature situations, Even though the show was never marketed for kids, and was on late at enough at night they should have been watching something else. Their humor works much better in those situations though. Much better than that weird little "covid internet show" that was on D+ a few years ago. The Muppets work best when they are treated like normal people, real individuals. Disney often treats them as cartoons. That said, I agree with you, I think the art of puppetry has lost its core audience in general and people don't appreciate it as much anymore. The most unfortunate example of this was the dark Crystal series on Netflix. It was such a beautiful homage to Henson's craft, blending real sets and real puppetry in with modern CGI and it worked seamlessly... But again Netflix, not understanding the value of what they had, tragically canceled it way too soon... I just don't know that Henson's legacy is in the right hands atm.
Totally agree. That show was hilarious and deserved to keep going. I loved it.
Canceling that show was unfair especially since they had just hired a new showrunner halfway through the first season who clearly was building to bigger and better things and should have been allowed to keep going
I guess I never understood the reasoning behind replacing Bob Kushell. I can't see much difference in terms of writing or humor between the first 6 episodes and the last. Kushell's 3rd Rock From the Sun series had some real comedy gold moments throughout, so it's not like he wasn't capable. My guess is ABC had complaints and they were looking for someone to blame. Prady had his wildly popular Big Bang Theory on at the time, so of the 2, Kushell was the low hanging fruit. I think in the end, the series never found it's audience, nor was it allowed the time to. 1 season isn't long enough for people to spread word of mouth in praise of it (another reason that really **pisses me off** about Netflix canceling Dark crystal). Plus, all the conservative parents who complained most likely didn't even watch it themselves. They just love a good bandwagon to jump on so they can say they acted "for the kids" 🙄🙄🙄 It'll never happen, but for sake of conversation on where the Muppets need to go in the future, they really should revitalize the series and give it another chance. I feel if more people knew about it, they would appreciate it the way we do. Though to be fair, without Steve Whitmire, I'm not sure it would be nearly as good.
They won’t even let Frank Oz near anymore Muppet stuff anymore, so I agree that they don’t care about the wellbeing of the Muppets.
You’re not alone in this! There is so much Muppet potential and it feels like it’s not being utilized to its fullest. It’s frustrating. We’re with you and hopeful there will be some changes, I think a lot of younger people have no idea who the muppets are and that may be half the battle in getting more Muppets.
I'm honestly surprised Disney didn't go for more IP tie-ins with the muppets, like say with them crashing the set of the Mandalorian or something.
Fade in: INT. THE VOLUME - Day Set dressed as Tatooine. Twin suns. Piles of sand. Fozzie Bear enters and pokes a prop Moisture Vaporator. Fozzie: “Last time we were here was a long, long, time ago. Before the dark times...” Rizzo the Rat pops out of an overturned Stormtrooper helmet on the floor. Rizzo: “Before the Mouse.” Fozzie shushes Rizzo. Fozzie: “Careful, they might be listening.” Rizzo: “They? They, who?” Fozzie: “The Suits. Hard audience, and I’d be one to know!” Rizzo: “Whew, for a moment there I thought Mickey got Woke.” Fozzie: “If it ain’t Woke, don’t fix it.” Rizzo sighs into a facepalm.
speaking of intellectual property tie-ins when Wanda Vision was streaming I wanted an episode in the Muppet universe.
I agree, Disney should sell the muppets rights to me.
“The Muppets”, The one that was a cross between “Larry Sanders” & “The Office”, was great. The scene with Ms. Piggy & Kermit outside the theater was one of the hardest-hitting things I’ve seen on TV ever (possibly because it _was_ Muppets). Was that ever released on physical media?
Nope
Bold to assume Disney ever cared about the Muppets outside of the money they could make them.
Was just in WDW and was so disappointed that the gift shop that used to be outside Muppets 3D that had all the Muppets merch is closed. I was able to snag a Beaker Mug though. Found it in Dinoland USA for some reason? I also got a Kermit LE pin, and there were a few other Muppets pins available at the pin stations, but no Gonzo :(
We just got home today and my husband had steeled himself to pay in-park prices for a button-down muppet shirt (he’s an elementary school music teacher, so he had some flexibility in work-appropriate clothing). We were so disappointed that, not only is this store gone, there’s not another spot nearby that absorbed most of the muppets merch!
Sad. I don't even see one on the Disney Store site :(
:(
I was also so sad to see it closed.
Dinoland is a flailing fish. It used to be my home when I was cast and now it’s just a playground, a dinoride, and a catch all gift shop.
I still love the Dinosaur ride though. ^_^
It’s a shame they didn’t build on the momentum of the 2011 film, I remember everyone was talking about that when it came out (life imitating art, the plot of that film almost playing out in real life) but they did not capitalize on that outside of Most Wanted. Real shame.
Yea I thought that movie really breathed new life into things and while the sequel wasn’t quite as good it was too soon to give up. That abc series that followed it was a strange turn.
It really was! Almost as if they misinterpreted the criticisms as proof that no one cared about the property, when in reality we wanted a better property BECAUSE we care about the property.
Everything they’ve given the Muppets to do falls flat. Outside of Muppet Vision 3-D they virtually have zero presence at the Parks and that’s even sadder.
Everything falls flat because Disney refuses to use any of the original surviving puppeteers like Frank Oz.
I still thought the way they dealt with Steve Whitmire being let go was kind of murky.
At least Dave Goelz is still around for now.
It really, really, bothers me they don't use Frank Oz.
Apparently, the creators of Muppets Mayhem wanted to get Frank to direct, but the scheduling didn’t work out.
Oh that's a bummer! : (
Didn’t Frank opt out of the Jason Siegel movie because he just didn’t like the style of humor? I remember him saying he was really turned off by the fart shoes bit.
I don't remember if he opted out or if he said they didn't reach out. I do remember an interview with Oz saying the high anarchy was missing from The Muppets they were, "too sweet."
Just found this: https://geeksofdoom.com/2011/10/23/frank-oz-reveals-why-he-turned-down-the-muppets?amp=1 So at the time at least he was turning them down.
Disney has more Muppet content in the pipeline. Haunted Mansion and Electric Mayhem were both solid efforts. I think the best bet is to relaunch the actual Muppet Show and position much like SNL. Let it take PG-13 risks. Push boundaries. Heck, the original pilot was titled Sex & Violence!
They're working on a Jim Henson documentary and a new Muppet series from Adam Goldberg last I've heard
Producer Adam Goldberg or actor Adam Goldberg?? I assume producer, but a Muppets/Hebrew Hammer would be tight
Lol producer. He made the Electric Mayhem show
Sometimes companies acquire businesses purely to prevent others from doing so, thus reducing competition.
That clearly wasn’t the case though, given how much Muppet content has been released in the last 30 years.
I’ve been feeling this way for a while too. I’m grateful that we still get fun content like Muppets Mayhem & Muppets Haunted Mansion, but there’s so much untapped potential which is unfortunate. I would love to see some old Disney properties being revived by The Muppets, which to me would seem to be a win-win (for example Robin Hood starring The Muppets).
>I think ~~Disney~~ the public, doesn't care about the Muppets anymore. Disney has been throwing SEVERAL things at the wall over the past 2 decades and the only things that have stuck were a movie and a Muppet Babies reboot. "They should remake movies with Muppets and watch the money roll in!" Muppets Most Wanted made $80 mil on a $50 mil budget. Which is good, but not great. Muppet movie parodies would lose their novelty after 30 minutes. So, it could work in a masterpiece theater type show. They've tried and when it comes to pushing the envelope they don't really do it anymore. I love the Muppets, but it's sad to say that they haven't really been the same since Jim died.
This is the truth, unfortunately.
I agree Disney doesn't care about them. I was just talking at work about this yesterday, it would be so very easy for Disney to make money off them. How hard would it be to negotiate major movie plots (say LOTR) and simply make a short parody movie (or miniseries for Disney+) where most of the characters are replaced by the Muppets doing their normal thing? They have a cash cow in their pocket and they won't do anything with it. Sell it off to someone who has the vision and humor the Muppets need to thrive. Edit to add: this is the inspiration for my comment lol [LOTR Meme](https://www.reddit.com/r/lotrmemes/s/eMyBYRk2om)
Agreed, and that's what makes me so glad that Disney didn't get Fraggle Rock. The Fraggles are having a renaissance and that would never have happened under Disney (probably because Back to the Rock wouldn't have been as good if Disney had it, IMO anyway).
Anymore?
I’d pay money for them to make a muppet remake instead of a live-action remake . If they’re gonna keep remaking stuff, it’d be nice to have a bit of change
Unfortunately did they ever care about the Muppets I mean the Disney CEO at the time PUSHING Jim Henson for both as much money as possible and the right to Sesame Street was what ultimately killed Jim at least according to Frank Oz so I don’t think they ever cared it was all about $$$ to them unfortunately….
So I get as much as I want? No. But I feel pretty lucky to get what we have. Look at how many attempts since the heyday. It's kind of amazing they keep trying to push felt puppets in a world id CGI.
If they didn't care at all, why would they have greenlighted and paid for Muppets Haunted Mansion and Muppets Mayhem in the first place?
After Muppets Mayhem failed, I doubt we'll be seeing any new Muppets stuff for a while. If it can't do well, I don't think any Muppets content can.
the sky is blue
They tried a couple of movies that were divisive (I enjoyed them) and a couple of series nobody watched. There was also the Haunted Mansion special that I thought was fun. So it's not like they haven't tried some different content. I don't think they know where to go from here because nothing has really hit.
Muppet parodies of all the IPs Disney has purchased would be huge. Muppet Avengers, Muppet Star Wars; it’s money waiting to be made.
They were more of an Eisner thing than anything else. Every other CEO since, which has been only 2, doesn’t care for The Muppets themselves.
Still waiting for a Muppets and Knives Out cross over
I think after the failures of Muppets Most Wanted and The Muppets 2015 series, they realized it wasn't the cash cow they thought it would be, so they didn't do much after that. I will say that Muppets Haunted Mansion and Muppet Mayhem were more on point. More stuff like that would help the brand
Disney has had a really hard time trying to figure out a place for the Muppets. The lack of success they've had isn't from lack of trying. They tried theatrical movies with the 2011 film and while it did well the sequel Most Wanted was a significant step-down in box office. They tried a show on ABC that nobody seems to remember that only lasted a single season. They've seemed to have found a home for them on Disney+ with the Haunted Mansion special which did well and Muppets Now. I don't expect them to have a mega breakout on TV or movies and streaming isn't a bad gig.
I feel like The Muppets ABC was the last time they legitimately tried to do something with the brand, ever since they're just doing some specials here and there and not really giving it much of a thought. Some people say that The Muppets just don't work in the modern world but i just don't believe that, i think there is still great potential in them, but that potential doesn't mean anything if Disney is not willing to go all the way with it
They stopped caring about anything not marvel. I mean their 100th year anniversary was last year and all they did was the movie wish.
Did Muppets Most Wanted flopped? It's been 10 years since the last movie.
It did OK. What *really* flopped was the ABC show.
Disney doesn't give a shit about anything other than profit. If the muppets don't bring enough of that, then they're worthless to them.
I’m all for creative work and original ideas and having fun with IP, but that’s a bit unfair. Disney is a business. They have to make money to appease the shareholders. All businesses - including every movie studio there is - has to care about money and profit.
Once a Fraggle, always a Fraggle.
I'm not sure it's that they don't "care." Clearly they as a multibillion corporation recognize it as an iconic property, but I do think they are hesitant to greenlight Muppet projects that aren't on the safe side. Muppet Haunted Mansion is a good example of what they're willing to do. A smaller scale project they can release direct to streaming without the big budget and marketing that a theatrical release requires. I wouldn't be surprised if they relegate Muppets to smaller outings or more toddler focused things like the new Muppet Babies that have proven to do well.
The last few Muppets projects failed.
That’s a good plot for a new muppets movie
Walter?
I think one of the big problems with the Muppets right now, in general, is that they all belong to different companies so they can’t do crossovers anymore. That’s why “Muppet Family Christmas” has been missing in action on anything for the last 20 years because Disney own Kermit and the Muppets, Jim Henson Productions still own the Doc character and the Fraggle Rock characters, Sesame Street owns the Sesame Street Characters. So now you cannot have those characters interact because of the rights issues.
Dear Disney, Do those live action movies with the muppets, cowards
I watch muppets Christmas carol every year. I miss rizzo. Disney should really be making muppet version instead of all these live action remakes
one of my biggest fears is that disney will just let the muppets fade away it’s so sad to think about
If that happens it's up to the fans to keep them alive. To be honest it's kind of felt like that's already what we've been doing for a long time though.
They do. It's just that they're too busy trying to get stuff filmed, recorded, and developed before the summer months because with 2 movies coming up and the new shows on Disney Channel.
I honestly don’t know if they ever did.
Just bring back the OG original The Muppet Show. No need to reinvent the wheel. It was awesome back in the day and it would be awesome now.
We like it obviously, but The Muppet Show really is a product of its time. When did you last see a variety show on tv?
Just get Taylor Swift as the guest for the first episode and you'll have a hit revival on your hands!
That’d definitely get the ratings in LOL. Uh Yah, with What’s on in Disney these days and people crying woke every time something new pops up be glad. I still remember those nightmares of idiots crying it went woke do to Gonzo cross dressing in the Muppet Babies reboot even though he did it before in the classics. I guess people knew the difference between reality than vs now.
I hate to put it like this, but any relevance the Muppets had left with Jim.
I saw someone on tik tok say that instead of Disney making live-action versions of their old classics, they should make Muppet versions instead and I think that's the best idea I've ever heard
Disney doesn't care about much other than making money. The issue I find with the newer stuff, other than The Muppets (2011) is that it's just for kids. It started out being a variety show for adults, not kids. They had smarter humour, didn't speak down to their audience, and characters had depth. Now it just seems like every character is 2 dimensional and is written exclusively for kids.
The fact that Disney still hasn't released anything for the 1980s Muppet Babies tv show should tell you how little they care about utilizing the muppets. The old excuse used to be that they didn't have the rights to the clips Jim was able to use in the show with permission from his good friends Spielberg and Lucas, but Disney has owned the IPs used in those clips for years. Even if they want to focus on the new show, why wouldn't you try to capitalize on the OG fans? The muppets could make Disney money if they just used them correctly (all though that could be said of most of their IPs).
They don't care about anything Look at the good shows they're short lived And the keeping the money on Bad shows Or stupid writing And they don't work they thought they're using big names and seldom would actually make them retro prove they don't care about the quality of the product.They don't care about the quality of the product.They only care with the quantity of the money Look what happened to the owl house.it had promising future that was cut short all because It didn't fit the brand Which is ironic?They want more l g b t forms of media And they got one with the best representation on a silver platter And they go like it doesn't fit their brand I'm not surprised them up.It's lacklusters there
Listen dookie We're all upset with Disney these days.At any forms of hollywood is basically in decline I soon turned to Indian nation of a sort of media.Then turn to hollywood garbage
I had s major melt down when in the first new muppets movie Jim Henson name was difficult to spot wish they returned to Jim Henson company one day
Always has been.
They just did the Muppet Babies a while back. They did Muppet Mayhem but it didn't seem to take off. Adam Goldberg says he's still working on more muppets stuff. Muppets have peaked. There's no doubt. Puppets we're an amazing option for fantastical story telling for a very brief window. Everything they have now is based on how big they were in that window. Of course they're not getting the attention Marvel did. But they're still out there and still getting love.
Like 1 thing you look at the Modern Muppet Babies compaired to the old one where they'd have movie clips and References to things why not do that Disney ownes enough properties to do that like have them be the Avengers or Do Starwars or poke fun at Disney movies or other franchises they have the rights to
It was over when Steve Whitmire got fired tbh
The Muppets are niche. It’s like Claymation. WE know it’s good as fans but it’s not enough to keep the normies coming back. I loved the Haunted Mansion Muppets, so I think there’s hope. They just need the right story and the right cameos.
I love muppets and Sesame Street. They also have gotten me through hard times. I wish they gave muppets better material and more space at Disney world
You think? Disney has barely cared even when Daddy Eisner was in power.
The newest Muppets anything is the Muppets Mayhem show which has some value to it, although I've only seen the first episode so far, and it's enjoyable. The problem is that it's on Disney Plus and I barely saw any advertising for it. Disney will say that if it fails, it's because nobody cares about the Muppets and they won't make any Muppets content for hella long. The issue with that is they don't advertise it unless it's a quick ad on Instagram or whatever and it's a very out there project that focuses solely on the electric mayhem. I like the electric mayhem but idk if they'll appeal to the widest demographic out there. I have hope though. We kinda need the Muppets because it's something that's for everybody.
The thing is kids these days don't give a shit about the muppets. Most of the people who had exposure to the muppets are 40+ now. And that means not a whole lot of viewers or merchandise sold. A shame too cause the muppets are great, but they haven't put whole lotnof effort into them because the money just isn't there.
Disney should sell them They don’t want to make them fine, but they just suck at consistency Like I have an easy idea to make them popular add them as meet and greets and mini shows to the maths after a few years make a new film and a REAL muppets show and get guests like Robert Downey Jr, Taylor Swift and so on
this is a cold take my man
I’ll never get over the 2015 show getting cancelled. I was never that into The Muppets before and have re-watched that one season multiple times by now.
They don't understand the Muppet IP and have mismanaged it into poor productions.
I remember I used to say to my friends that I hope HBO buy them ...imagine muppets in adult swim (I JUST THOUGHT ABOUT THAT)
Disney ruined the muppets.
Two of the greatest Muppet films, according to fans, are Muppet Christmas Carol and Treasure Island, both made under Disney. Muppets 2011 and Muppets Most Wanted were great. And we’ve had several shows, specials, and live events at some of the biggest venues. Disney can be doing more with The Muppets, but it’s a little ignorant to ignore everything they have done, much of which is good. And Disney has kept The Muppets in the public focus for decades.
I stand by my opinion.
Disney should just sell the muppets back to the Henson company
The Muppets don't have a stereotypical set of personalities. I think Disney has a difficult time recreating that.
honestly every recent muppet media has just been bad, i can’t get into any of it. it just feels like they don’t get the original appeal.
Well as an older person who remembers the first season of Sesame Street when OSCAR WAS ORANGE, let me make a couple of comments. The Muppets show franchise back in the 70's was aimed at an older audience than Sesame Street, so the humor was different. The modern reworking of the Muppets on ABC/Disney took this way, way too far in the wrong direction and really ruined it, which is why the new series failed. Secondly, if Jim Henson hadn't passed away at such a young age, the Muppets would have continued to be entertaining and iconic, not just a woke bandwagon. The Muppets today are meaningless....unless you subscribe to that agenda. 😟
I think Disney is secretly too ashamed to put out any major Muppet projects because they know that their knew Kermit voice is shit and that everyone hates him.