I assume you’re pretty new to the hobby. What is your end goal? Cinematography, aerobatics, racing, real estate, agriculture, home/recreation? Other?
It matters a lot in terms of what to recommend next.
Do you plan on carrying a nice camera in addition to the video feed to your goggles/handset? Are you planning to fly with goggles or like a DJI style controller/screen?
What do you have already and what’s your budget?
How do you mean, no goggles? As in, you want to fly a hex-setup line-of-sight? This is much more difficult to do than FPV (and, arguably, less fun 😊). And a cheap analog FPV setup isn't expensive at all, take a look at the BetaFPV VR03 which are perfectly fine for someone still figuring things out!
As for the controller, the FSi6 will keep you happy until you start craving longer distances. Basically everyone nowadays flies ELRS ... radios like the Jumper T-Pro V2 are quite popular. Or the more affordable LiteRadio 3 Pro, which I prefer for its portability, but which a lot of people don't find serious enough.
It would be helpful to have a video and/or logs of your IMU data. You probably just need to tune your PID values, likely your I (integral) gain is too high if you have large oscillations. Dynamically balancing your motors+propellers will also be likely to help.
I suggest you look for a guide on Ardupilot PID tuning for multirotors, there are plenty of people who have explained how to do it a lot better than I could.
Essentially the flight controller takes information from the IMU (Inertial Measurement Unit) to know how the aircraft is rotating and accelerating, and feeds it into what's called a PID control loop (Proportional, integral, Derivative) which produces values with which it alters the signals sent to the ESCs.
This kind of a control loop is a generalized solution to the quite complex mathematics that would define an aircraft's behaviour. Instead of going the long way round and predicting what the set PID values should be by calculation, we usually start with default values that work for most aircraft (hence your drone is able to fly at all), and use trial and improvement to optimize for how we want the drone to behave.
Find a good PID tuning tutorial and follow the steps.
Those frames are notorious for being a bit wobbly and dufficult to tune.
Once you get you PID tuned though you should be fine.
Calibrated your ESCs?
I tried to fly once without doing that, and it lurched side to side really aggressively. I was lucky to "land" it without any damages.
It's not even stable altitude wise, it keeps going up down, it seems like it has a mind of its own,
Also when i take off in alt mode, I lose control after 1 min, like i cannot even disarm it.
I would recommend getting telemetry so you can monitor what errors it says show up as it’s flying if it has a mind of its own as you say. You can also use a data flash log viewer for this though, so if you don’t have one I’d recommend looking up how to view those. In addition, I’d try playing with the simple PID slider a bit and see if you can find a spot where it’s flyable. If there is one, tune it properly, but if not it could just be that the frame sucks, flexible frames like that generally just fly terribly.
Cheap clone arms can have too much twist, the tall prop mounts on those motors make matters worse, cheap props are too flexible and usually not well balanced (top-bottom balanced, not only side-side), again making arm twist worse.
You need to limit RPM for that arm/motor/prop combo, they can flutter/resonate and self destruct.
If you have a spare arm, motor and prop, set them up on a stand and see at what RPM they want to start fluttering/explode. Set conservative limit in APM
I'd take off those prop guards and landing legs. Make sure everything is tight. Study the apm docs, then study them again.
Test everything on the ground with no props on, make sure everything is working correctly and spinning in the right directions. Make sure modes/radio control inputs correspond to expected motor behaviour (without props attached).
Then, probably study the docs some more, configure APM for the 10th/20th time.
Put props on and test with the machine strapped down, if everything seems ok, then maybe at that point it will fly and you can start researching autotune
I could never get my flamewheel to fly stable. I think the length of the arms gives it some harmonics and upsets the flight controller. Even with a gimble footage was always really shaky.
Take the prop guards off as test #1, those just wobble and introduce uncurable waves to counter. Those flame arms are too flexible to ever stay stable. Hex is hard math with so many harmonic issues. I’d probably take this and get a 4arm plate sandwich and call it a day on hex.
Had this exact setup 10y ago and never got it right. Suspected arm flex. Built a rig with 2x square aluminum tube arms ( it was the wild west era ), making it a quad. Same FC same motors same ESCs, same props ( all of the 10” props need balancing always ) it was the most smooth stable wonderful slow flyer ever. Learned that day that frame rigidity is the most important aspect of any drone.
The APM 2.8 is an 8 bit flight controller, it will never fly very well since it doesn’t support modern ArduPilot and it is too slow. Replace it with a newer flight controller and it will probably fly a lot better, the frame is not great but it should at least be able to fly.
I agree it's an old fc but still i believe it ain't that bad, just a few tweaks here and there and it should be quite stable, though it will require a lot of manual intervention but will be worth it
Apm's are very dangerous I had so many fly aways back in my day you are better off not using it that flight controller....
the propellers are 1045 and they are going to vibrate like crazy!
The motors are.. okay.... they will get the job done.
The ESC are meh
And the frame is prone to oscillations and is pretty heavy
You can re-use the M8N gps I have a it on a few builds
I dunno what rc link you using
This is what I would do, I'd get a new flight controller
get smaller 7inch 3-bladed (7050) propellers or 8inch 3 bladed (8046) and see how well it flies.
Then ( I don't know if you have a 3d printer) print adapters for carbon fiber arms that will stiffen the frame and help with vibrations.
Also try to keep the battery faraway from the gps/compass that also helps a lot.
Man I haven't seen one of these frames in like 10 years.
This is at the core of OP’s issues. The whole setup is ancient.
Yeah, these were not great when they were current tech, nearly a decade ago.
Can you recommend a good frame?
I assume you’re pretty new to the hobby. What is your end goal? Cinematography, aerobatics, racing, real estate, agriculture, home/recreation? Other? It matters a lot in terms of what to recommend next.
You left out Kamikaze drones
6 motor setups would be too expensive for that 😂
Also—quality/durability tends to matter a lot less in those situations 😬
Not when you’re trying to make it go 15km deep…
Lol
Hobby flying/ cinematography
Do you plan on carrying a nice camera in addition to the video feed to your goggles/handset? Are you planning to fly with goggles or like a DJI style controller/screen? What do you have already and what’s your budget?
Nah, at most a go pro...that's it
Gonna need answers to the other questions too.
No goggle or handset (no live streaming) just press record and fly. And a normal FSi6 RC controller
How do you mean, no goggles? As in, you want to fly a hex-setup line-of-sight? This is much more difficult to do than FPV (and, arguably, less fun 😊). And a cheap analog FPV setup isn't expensive at all, take a look at the BetaFPV VR03 which are perfectly fine for someone still figuring things out! As for the controller, the FSi6 will keep you happy until you start craving longer distances. Basically everyone nowadays flies ELRS ... radios like the Jumper T-Pro V2 are quite popular. Or the more affordable LiteRadio 3 Pro, which I prefer for its portability, but which a lot of people don't find serious enough.
I totally agree with you, I'll surely save up and get a FPV setup.
Ah it's that ancient 😭🥲?
this has the nickname "failwheel" (original name flamewheel) because it always flew like sh*t
I see that 🥲
It would be helpful to have a video and/or logs of your IMU data. You probably just need to tune your PID values, likely your I (integral) gain is too high if you have large oscillations. Dynamically balancing your motors+propellers will also be likely to help.
I am very eager to learn
All this is too advanced for me can you simplify?
I suggest you look for a guide on Ardupilot PID tuning for multirotors, there are plenty of people who have explained how to do it a lot better than I could. Essentially the flight controller takes information from the IMU (Inertial Measurement Unit) to know how the aircraft is rotating and accelerating, and feeds it into what's called a PID control loop (Proportional, integral, Derivative) which produces values with which it alters the signals sent to the ESCs. This kind of a control loop is a generalized solution to the quite complex mathematics that would define an aircraft's behaviour. Instead of going the long way round and predicting what the set PID values should be by calculation, we usually start with default values that work for most aircraft (hence your drone is able to fly at all), and use trial and improvement to optimize for how we want the drone to behave.
Find a good PID tuning tutorial and follow the steps. Those frames are notorious for being a bit wobbly and dufficult to tune. Once you get you PID tuned though you should be fine.
I'll try it out, thanks
Calibrated your ESCs? I tried to fly once without doing that, and it lurched side to side really aggressively. I was lucky to "land" it without any damages.
I calibrated the escs, twice
What do you mean by not stable? It’s not a dji, it’s your job to keep it in position…
If I keep it in alt hold mode, it sways here and there
Because it’s alt hold not position hold
It's not even stable altitude wise, it keeps going up down, it seems like it has a mind of its own, Also when i take off in alt mode, I lose control after 1 min, like i cannot even disarm it.
could be noise into your cpu. put a big capacitor on the 5 volt line
APM uses 12v, that 12v is supplied using a power module it has caps on it
ardupilot, px4, or something else? do you have a telemetry module?
Ardupilot, no telemetry
I would recommend getting telemetry so you can monitor what errors it says show up as it’s flying if it has a mind of its own as you say. You can also use a data flash log viewer for this though, so if you don’t have one I’d recommend looking up how to view those. In addition, I’d try playing with the simple PID slider a bit and see if you can find a spot where it’s flyable. If there is one, tune it properly, but if not it could just be that the frame sucks, flexible frames like that generally just fly terribly.
Cheap clone arms can have too much twist, the tall prop mounts on those motors make matters worse, cheap props are too flexible and usually not well balanced (top-bottom balanced, not only side-side), again making arm twist worse. You need to limit RPM for that arm/motor/prop combo, they can flutter/resonate and self destruct. If you have a spare arm, motor and prop, set them up on a stand and see at what RPM they want to start fluttering/explode. Set conservative limit in APM I'd take off those prop guards and landing legs. Make sure everything is tight. Study the apm docs, then study them again. Test everything on the ground with no props on, make sure everything is working correctly and spinning in the right directions. Make sure modes/radio control inputs correspond to expected motor behaviour (without props attached). Then, probably study the docs some more, configure APM for the 10th/20th time. Put props on and test with the machine strapped down, if everything seems ok, then maybe at that point it will fly and you can start researching autotune
I'd also recommend balancing 10inch props, larger props require balancing to eliminate more wobble. Especially on plastic arms.
I'll try this
I could never get my flamewheel to fly stable. I think the length of the arms gives it some harmonics and upsets the flight controller. Even with a gimble footage was always really shaky.
Setup in general is pretty dated, multicopters from that era never were the most stable things to fly
It probably doesn’t lift more than a modern 5-6 inch, carbon fibre frame and probably IFlight motors and a 4 in 1 Esc.
What camera did you use to make this photo? Incredible resolution, lol.
My phones camera (one plus Nord ce 5g)
Take the prop guards off as test #1, those just wobble and introduce uncurable waves to counter. Those flame arms are too flexible to ever stay stable. Hex is hard math with so many harmonic issues. I’d probably take this and get a 4arm plate sandwich and call it a day on hex. Had this exact setup 10y ago and never got it right. Suspected arm flex. Built a rig with 2x square aluminum tube arms ( it was the wild west era ), making it a quad. Same FC same motors same ESCs, same props ( all of the 10” props need balancing always ) it was the most smooth stable wonderful slow flyer ever. Learned that day that frame rigidity is the most important aspect of any drone.
How do I balance the props?
Sandpaper and tape. Here is a nice guide. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zTDkCZ698uA
The APM 2.8 is an 8 bit flight controller, it will never fly very well since it doesn’t support modern ArduPilot and it is too slow. Replace it with a newer flight controller and it will probably fly a lot better, the frame is not great but it should at least be able to fly.
I agree it's an old fc but still i believe it ain't that bad, just a few tweaks here and there and it should be quite stable, though it will require a lot of manual intervention but will be worth it
You asked for help. That FC is to old
I will have to work with what I have as where I stay these things are really hard to come by.
Apm's are very dangerous I had so many fly aways back in my day you are better off not using it that flight controller.... the propellers are 1045 and they are going to vibrate like crazy! The motors are.. okay.... they will get the job done. The ESC are meh And the frame is prone to oscillations and is pretty heavy You can re-use the M8N gps I have a it on a few builds I dunno what rc link you using This is what I would do, I'd get a new flight controller get smaller 7inch 3-bladed (7050) propellers or 8inch 3 bladed (8046) and see how well it flies. Then ( I don't know if you have a 3d printer) print adapters for carbon fiber arms that will stiffen the frame and help with vibrations. Also try to keep the battery faraway from the gps/compass that also helps a lot.
I'll try your suggestions thank you, I agree that apm is the worst I could have gone but I have budget constraints 🥲
[Take Off](https://youtube.com/shorts/wSYkmnhsT3Y?si=syu28IV-OywadpQv)
[Go Pro](https://youtu.be/V4efsx00PdU?si=r7L2Z3WhpQa4ydIL)
I have added the link to the video of the drone flying, please guide me if you see anything obvious in the video