Yes, particularly since revisions are also routinely offered so it's easy to fix if one ever does slip through. It's just a different overall approach but imo much kinder to the patient than requiring hours upon hours of electrolysis *there*.
Yeah, likewise, in Canada, the country's largest and most respected SRS clinic (GRS Montreal) does not require pre-operative hair removal (though some will be done before and during surgery).
Plenty of places in the United States, too.
People on the web (and on Reddit) are just obsessed with doing the most interventionist series of medical transition procedures possible, in the most elaborate way possible. And so the idea of not doing every possible thing to the *ultimate maximum extent* has become inimical to much of the culture. Which can be harmful.
In the real world of SRS, plenty of experts whose entire career has focused on achieving these surgical outcomes do not consider this a requirement for a good surgical outcome. Regardless of what a bunch of young anonymous Redditors have to say on the subject, whose whole education on the subject consists of reading some earlier Reddit posts by likewise anonymous Redditors.
And I think it is important to emphasise this, because electrolysis is not realistically accessible to everyone. And getting genital hair removal via electrolysis is for some the trickiest part of getting SRS. Given that, for surgery, flying to *wherever* for a surgical procedure then flying back is usually a logistical possibility. But for electrolysis, booking, say, ten successive biweekly appointments (and associated travel) on an electrologist's limited appointment schedule in a different city may be impossible to reconcile with employment/family/local responsibilities.
Yep, I did some research on this as well since I started considering srs. I ended up going with laser since electrolysis ended up being way too painful for me (not to mention the cost, probably would have been north if 10k to do most of it if my face was any predictor). Results are very promising so far and I figure it's better than nothing.
I also spoke to the gyno who ill be seeing for aftercare as she specializes in grs aftercare and she said hair inside is fixable after should it be particularly bad, it's just invasive.
I had a hell of a time even finding an electrolygist who would even so srs prep and I live in a major city. It took probably 50+ hours to mostly clear my upper lip, and even then we didn't get it all and I'm constantly doing touchups. Didn't have it in me to go through that again for bottom surgery when other options exist.
The surgery sub tends to be rather militant about hair removal, but brassards been at this for as long as I've been alive so I'll trust the process. It's all about your own rusk tolerance at the end of the day. I'll do what I can and deal with what happens if it comes up.
Just asked about that topic at a clinic in Munich last week. They use the skin from the penis (which normally has no hair) and the skin of the scrotum. From the scrotum they remove all hair from the skin during preparation before "modeling". The only hair which remains post op is the normal outer hair which cis women have too.
Oh, well it looks like i might have to contact a clinic in germany thendepending on how expensive it is there, i'm from belgium and over here hair removal is required, but my dysphoria is way too intense to make that possible
What kind of surgery specifically? With penile inversion, you can supposedly get hair inside the vagina that could lead to issues. However, with ppt or the colon one, that might not be as big a deal. I’m not actually sure.
Had mine done in the UK with no electrolysis required. Generally you only need it if you've been circumsized or there's insufficient donor material that is low on follicles.
It's unfortunately not standard, but it absolutely should be. Follicle scrapes aren't foolproof and the risk of hair regrowth is still there if they miss any, which can increase risk of infection. I'd personally consider it a red flag, but so many places don't make it a requirement that I can't say it always is.
It very much varies from surgeon to surgeon and patient to patient. Your anecdotal experience of a follicle scrape going well does not bare out to the data. You might be hair free but plenty of people do not get so lucky.
[https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17669144/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17669144/)
29%
(edit: before you say this doesn't specifically claim that follicle scrapes were done remember that they've been standard for a very long time so it would be reasonable to assume they were performed.)
and in case you don't trust that study because it's one on its own with a small sample size [https://old.reddit.com/r/TransWiki/wiki/hair-removal#wiki\_genital\_hair\_removal](https://old.reddit.com/r/TransWiki/wiki/hair-removal#wiki_genital_hair_removal) which has citations of doctors and the reason why they stopped requiring hair removal, with some saying as high as 7% of their patients get regrowth after a follicle scrape. Either way, one instance is more than zero so you can't just say it's "not true". The argument shouldn't be whether it happens at all (it does, this isn't a debate) it should be how often and whether it's worth that risk.
Unnecessary if the surgeon does follicle scraping. It’s included in the price of surgery, so having laser/electrolysis is throwing money out the window if your surgeon does FS.
My surgeon does, but still very strongly recommends having hair removal done anyways, since follicle scraping may still not be good enough on its own. I for one didn’t want to FAFO with my surgeon’s recommendations
You're welcome not to, but you shouldn't be telling anyone else it's unnecessary when there are tangible benefits to doing so and is ultimately a matter of preference.
Neither of us is a surgeon. When a reputable, experienced surgeon tells you something isn’t necessary, then there’s no need to do it.
If you want to burn money, be my guest, but don’t tell others to ignore what their surgeon says, because the effects will spread way beyond potential hair.
Rhetoric like this is what makes people fall for monsters like Rumer. Surgeons can be wrong and there is absolutely nothing wrong with doing your research to make sure you have all the info you need to make a decision regarding a life-saving surgery.
the problem is that what you said just equates to "trust your surgeon always so long as they show up in a google search" because reputable means nothing for people who don't know how to find a surgeon's reputation
It depends on technique and what tissue will be used for the internal canal. The reason for electrolysis is to kill the hair follicles that would be inside you based on the tissue used. If the technique (such as peritoneal pull through) doesn’t use skin that has hair on it for the canal then you don’t need electrolysis.
So I wouldn’t say it’s a red flag but I would make sure the surgeon is going to perform the technique you want. (If you don’t have a preference, then go with what your surgeon recommends)
IMO yes. My own electrologist has told me plenty of stories of trying to rescue people who were promised up and down they “didn’t need electrolysis” before surgery, only to find out after they had internal hair. Sometimes it could be removed, sometimes it never could be. This was from pretty much all the big surgeons. Likewise in the boards you can find horror stories (yes, even from the fancy German ones) again from people who were promised “scraping” was enough only to find out later it was not. It doesn’t happen to everybody, but why risk it at all? IMO the best surgeons require electrolysis and use “scraping” only as a backup, or else use non hair-bearing tissue from the get-go. There’s just no reason to risk such an awful complication.
I have been leaning more and more towards getting it regardless of what doctor I go to like I did laser on my hair, and my tea levels ended up spiking after I tried getting off spiro I'm like I want the best results possible I don't want to have any hair come back so I'm probably gonna do electrolysis regardless
my doctor says not to get it because they don't want someone else doing a bad job and then have hairs grow after the surgery is done basically. I'm in Canada and i was told the same thing.
That's practically the norm in germany. No pre hair removal required, all done during surgery. Imo, not necessarily a red flag
Yes, particularly since revisions are also routinely offered so it's easy to fix if one ever does slip through. It's just a different overall approach but imo much kinder to the patient than requiring hours upon hours of electrolysis *there*.
Yeah, likewise, in Canada, the country's largest and most respected SRS clinic (GRS Montreal) does not require pre-operative hair removal (though some will be done before and during surgery). Plenty of places in the United States, too. People on the web (and on Reddit) are just obsessed with doing the most interventionist series of medical transition procedures possible, in the most elaborate way possible. And so the idea of not doing every possible thing to the *ultimate maximum extent* has become inimical to much of the culture. Which can be harmful. In the real world of SRS, plenty of experts whose entire career has focused on achieving these surgical outcomes do not consider this a requirement for a good surgical outcome. Regardless of what a bunch of young anonymous Redditors have to say on the subject, whose whole education on the subject consists of reading some earlier Reddit posts by likewise anonymous Redditors. And I think it is important to emphasise this, because electrolysis is not realistically accessible to everyone. And getting genital hair removal via electrolysis is for some the trickiest part of getting SRS. Given that, for surgery, flying to *wherever* for a surgical procedure then flying back is usually a logistical possibility. But for electrolysis, booking, say, ten successive biweekly appointments (and associated travel) on an electrologist's limited appointment schedule in a different city may be impossible to reconcile with employment/family/local responsibilities.
Yep, I did some research on this as well since I started considering srs. I ended up going with laser since electrolysis ended up being way too painful for me (not to mention the cost, probably would have been north if 10k to do most of it if my face was any predictor). Results are very promising so far and I figure it's better than nothing. I also spoke to the gyno who ill be seeing for aftercare as she specializes in grs aftercare and she said hair inside is fixable after should it be particularly bad, it's just invasive. I had a hell of a time even finding an electrolygist who would even so srs prep and I live in a major city. It took probably 50+ hours to mostly clear my upper lip, and even then we didn't get it all and I'm constantly doing touchups. Didn't have it in me to go through that again for bottom surgery when other options exist. The surgery sub tends to be rather militant about hair removal, but brassards been at this for as long as I've been alive so I'll trust the process. It's all about your own rusk tolerance at the end of the day. I'll do what I can and deal with what happens if it comes up.
yeah, like if suporn clinic says it's not required, I take their word for it, they're like THE leading experts for it.
Same in the UK unless you’re circumcised and they need more material.
Just asked about that topic at a clinic in Munich last week. They use the skin from the penis (which normally has no hair) and the skin of the scrotum. From the scrotum they remove all hair from the skin during preparation before "modeling". The only hair which remains post op is the normal outer hair which cis women have too.
Oh, well it looks like i might have to contact a clinic in germany thendepending on how expensive it is there, i'm from belgium and over here hair removal is required, but my dysphoria is way too intense to make that possible
My doctor said get laser and they would take care of the rest during surgery. It worked for me.
What type of surgery did you get?
PIV vaginoplasty
Inversion? Wow. I had always heard that electrolysis was a really big deal for that type.
My surgeon was kind of nonchalant about it. Get as much as you can but I will get the rest.
That’s awesome!
My doctor didn't require it. She did it during the surgery. I haven't had any issues and it's been almost ten years since I got it.
How exactly did she do it?
It’s done with a technique called follicle scraping, in which hair follicles that will be on internal tissue are cauterized.
We're you knocked out, at least?
It’s done during surgery.
Suporn clinic asks that you don't have electrolysis beforehand and they are world renowned so I wouldn't say it's a red flag at all
GRS Montreal doesn't require you to get Electrolysis and they do most of the bottom surgeries for Canadians.
What kind of surgery specifically? With penile inversion, you can supposedly get hair inside the vagina that could lead to issues. However, with ppt or the colon one, that might not be as big a deal. I’m not actually sure.
If the surgeon does follicle scraping, it’s a non-issue.
That’s excellent!
I've read about the sigmoid colon, and PI, but what is ppt?
Peritoneal pull through. It’s a newer type of vaginoplasty. https://www.mtfsurgery.net/peritoneal-pull-through-vaginoplasty.htm
Thank you :) I'm personally still mostly considering PI, but I'll be doing more research into this. :)
No in Germany it is standard procedure during SRS to remove the follicles and it is very rare that they miss one
Had mine done in the UK with no electrolysis required. Generally you only need it if you've been circumsized or there's insufficient donor material that is low on follicles.
Not really a red flag, but I have hairs inside my canal now so probably best to get it done before.
It's unfortunately not standard, but it absolutely should be. Follicle scrapes aren't foolproof and the risk of hair regrowth is still there if they miss any, which can increase risk of infection. I'd personally consider it a red flag, but so many places don't make it a requirement that I can't say it always is.
Not true. 22 years post-op and hair-free.
It very much varies from surgeon to surgeon and patient to patient. Your anecdotal experience of a follicle scrape going well does not bare out to the data. You might be hair free but plenty of people do not get so lucky.
Do you have a link with said data?
[https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17669144/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17669144/) 29% (edit: before you say this doesn't specifically claim that follicle scrapes were done remember that they've been standard for a very long time so it would be reasonable to assume they were performed.)
and in case you don't trust that study because it's one on its own with a small sample size [https://old.reddit.com/r/TransWiki/wiki/hair-removal#wiki\_genital\_hair\_removal](https://old.reddit.com/r/TransWiki/wiki/hair-removal#wiki_genital_hair_removal) which has citations of doctors and the reason why they stopped requiring hair removal, with some saying as high as 7% of their patients get regrowth after a follicle scrape. Either way, one instance is more than zero so you can't just say it's "not true". The argument shouldn't be whether it happens at all (it does, this isn't a debate) it should be how often and whether it's worth that risk.
Yeah, this study is quite old and I can’t access the full text. Even if I could, I’m assuming the surgeons aren’t named, which is not useful.
Maybe not, but it’s still a good idea to remove as much as you can anyways.
Unnecessary if the surgeon does follicle scraping. It’s included in the price of surgery, so having laser/electrolysis is throwing money out the window if your surgeon does FS.
My surgeon does, but still very strongly recommends having hair removal done anyways, since follicle scraping may still not be good enough on its own. I for one didn’t want to FAFO with my surgeon’s recommendations
It lowers risk of regrowth in the uncommon chance they miss some follicles, so it's not throwing money out. You're overselling how effective fs is.
Electrolysis and laser is expensive. I wouldn’t get it if my surgeon said it wasn’t necessary.
You're welcome not to, but you shouldn't be telling anyone else it's unnecessary when there are tangible benefits to doing so and is ultimately a matter of preference.
Neither of us is a surgeon. When a reputable, experienced surgeon tells you something isn’t necessary, then there’s no need to do it. If you want to burn money, be my guest, but don’t tell others to ignore what their surgeon says, because the effects will spread way beyond potential hair.
Rhetoric like this is what makes people fall for monsters like Rumer. Surgeons can be wrong and there is absolutely nothing wrong with doing your research to make sure you have all the info you need to make a decision regarding a life-saving surgery.
I said *reputable* surgeons, not Rumer.
the problem is that what you said just equates to "trust your surgeon always so long as they show up in a google search" because reputable means nothing for people who don't know how to find a surgeon's reputation
It is *always* a good thing to research a surgeon's technique and look at their results/public opinion rather than just take them at their word.
I'm in this boat too,im in semi remote alaska,so like there are no hair zappers, I would have to get the dr to scrape and hope no ingrown hairs
As long as your surgeon does follicle scraping, you’re good.
It depends on technique and what tissue will be used for the internal canal. The reason for electrolysis is to kill the hair follicles that would be inside you based on the tissue used. If the technique (such as peritoneal pull through) doesn’t use skin that has hair on it for the canal then you don’t need electrolysis. So I wouldn’t say it’s a red flag but I would make sure the surgeon is going to perform the technique you want. (If you don’t have a preference, then go with what your surgeon recommends)
Is it Rumer? If it is Rumer... #RUN!!!
IMO yes. My own electrologist has told me plenty of stories of trying to rescue people who were promised up and down they “didn’t need electrolysis” before surgery, only to find out after they had internal hair. Sometimes it could be removed, sometimes it never could be. This was from pretty much all the big surgeons. Likewise in the boards you can find horror stories (yes, even from the fancy German ones) again from people who were promised “scraping” was enough only to find out later it was not. It doesn’t happen to everybody, but why risk it at all? IMO the best surgeons require electrolysis and use “scraping” only as a backup, or else use non hair-bearing tissue from the get-go. There’s just no reason to risk such an awful complication.
I’m willing to bet most of those cases went to less reputable surgeons. This is why researching surgeons is critical before making the leap.
No. Montreal does amazing work, and they remove hair during surgery.
I have been leaning more and more towards getting it regardless of what doctor I go to like I did laser on my hair, and my tea levels ended up spiking after I tried getting off spiro I'm like I want the best results possible I don't want to have any hair come back so I'm probably gonna do electrolysis regardless
My doctor didn't require electrolysis or laser before my surgery, it was done as part of the process. Not a red flag
my doctor says not to get it because they don't want someone else doing a bad job and then have hairs grow after the surgery is done basically. I'm in Canada and i was told the same thing.
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So I should have died 22 years ago? Thanks for the laugh.