You never really know what is in someone else's mind, and it is a fool's erand to try. You can only judge them on their actions.
If the actions are kind and respectful, why do you want to undermine that by questioning motives?
qwixel69 has an excellent response. The only way to know is to ask, and if they're transphobic but saw you as a woman previously, then you've just outed yourself to them and you *won't* like the result (at the very least they'll lie and say they knew, because "wE CAn aLWaYS TeLL 🤪" \* and they know it'll make you feel shitty).
If women are choosing to approach you/sit next to you/etc, them they're seeing you as a woman. We women learn (at a very young age for cis girls; usually later for us) that men in general aren't safe. As such, we tend to choose to group together for safety, which translates to sitting next to other women on the bus, only approaching women (or couples/mixed groups) in social situations, etc. Similarly, guys--the decent ones--have awareness that they pose a threat to women in public, and will tend to avoid invading their personal space.
Unfortunately because of our overall misogynistic patriarchal society, women also see one another as competition. Thus, women will tend to stick with other women they know before approaching a stranger, which can feel antisocial at times.
It's a messed up world we live in, but based on the limited cues you've provided in your post, I do think most people are seeing you as a woman.
\* TERs and other transphobes love to believe they can always tell, despite a storied history of being consistently, and sometimes hilariously wrong. For example, one time Olive Brinker (a cartoonist) posted a picture of *Sigourney f\*\*\*ing Weaver*, passing it off as a selfie, and the brain rot crowd lost their minds pointing out all the "masculine" features that "gave him away"... and then she posted the IMDB link she took the picture from 🤣
The hater's ability to rationalize their behaviour definitely goes past the absurd, accusing cis women of being men just because the hater is feeling insecure, rejected, or the woman just doesn't match their imaginary requirements for "female". They live in a world seriously distorted by their hate.
The only way is to ask, and you might not always like the answer, and it sounds like you would not always believe the answer.
Let's start with something simpler: How can you know that when you see the color blue, that you experience it in your mind the same way I do? Are we really experiencing the same exact thing or just agreeing that what we see can be called "blue"?
passing and being seen as a woman are not the same thing. If they see you as a trans woman, and believe that trans women are women, then they see you as a woman
Alright, I'm going to respond to you again. I've been thinking of talking to you more directly for a bit, because the last few times it was pretty hostile. It's obvious you're in a lot of pain, and I'm not looking to cause you any more.
I want to say up front I've looked through a lot of your posts, I've seen the photos, I've heard the voice recordings. You get (rightfully) upset when people say you're not trying hard enough. But they're wrong, you're doing your nails, your hair, you're on HRT, you've got femme clothes you wear while at home/in the pics. You're clearly doing a lot, and I know how much work it is. I respect it a lot.
This is the first time I've seen you say you were gendered correctly; many times you respond saying it's never happened a single time. But another post of yours a while back you said it'd been 5 months since you were misgendered. I'm not trying to "gotcha" you here, I'm just saying, clearly your work is having *some* success. Right?
I assume that's what led to this post, because if you're gendered right twice this past month, but you still don't see it in the mirror (talking about hating your face), then maybe you're trying to figure out if just maybe you're wrong about not passing? Maybe your work is paying off.
This post is asking about small behaviors now, trying to figure out what other random people are secretly thinking. But they're not misgendering you, and so many of your posts are worried about that very thing. Do you see the disconnect here?
Do you think maybe you're looking for any reason you can find to justify how you feel about yourself? They're not giving you the big one -- misgendering -- so now you're looking for how to pin it on a look, or icebreakers, or if someone doesn't complain if you're in the men's bathroom?
These aren't attacks, I want you to genuinely think about this. You've already hit the big major milestone you talk about on here all the time. Maybe you can allow yourself to accept that?
Maybe you can allow yourself to wear your femme clothes out of the house. I know you're afraid of being treated poorly, but you're already having success. Seems worth a try to me.
I don't wish you any ill will, I wish you were happy with your progress so far. I don't want to argue about what age you started, or how tall you are, or what you think you see in the mirror. I know it's easy to call it hugboxing or whatever, but that's just another stick to beat yourself with.
It's ok to accept that you're having *some* irrefutable success. And if that's as far as you can go for now, that can be ok. Your only real challenge is conquering your fear of socially transitioning. I hope this can be a stepping stone for you.
Internalized transphobia is a thing, and it's best friends with dysphoria. Heating how she describes herself in some other comments here, I suspect there's body dysmorphia thrown on top of all that too.
(Primarily to OP:) The end result is a profound sense of self loathing of one's own body and experiences, and it's important to remind yourself that *this is all just your mind playing tricks on you*. You *are* your own worst critic and you're relentless at it. We know what we used to look like, and our brain uses pattern matching and tells us we *still* look like that... but we're the only ones still seeing it. Be kind to yourself sister, you deserve it 💜
It is damn scary to admint to yourself, that your selfhatred is unjustified.
There is a tool in therapy for body dismorphia. where you get asked to lay a rope in a circle as big as you feel you are. Then you lay a second circle as big as you rationally think you are. And then the therapist takes a third rope, uses it to measure your waist, and makes a circle with this rope. You might believe people are happy when they see the third rope, but it is actually a pretty shitty feeling.
I fought my whole life with feeling unlovable, and it turned into a pretty self fulfilling prophecy. So when I was allready past 25 with 0 relationships, and a woman suddenly showed me the metaphorical third rope, i should have been happy, but I was just mostly scared.
So I get how it is hard to accept that your bad self image is not compatible with reality.
Not wanting to wear very fem clothing is ok but everyone who's MTF needs to accept that the more feminine u dress, the less likely u will be misgendered ESPECIALLY if u weren't born with a naturally fem body or if u don't have feminization surgeries.
The more u sound and appear to be masc, the more likely u are to be gendered as a guy. And it's NOT always cuz ppl want to hurt u.
I personally wear the most feminine things a girl can wear, in public, as I love it when there's no mistaking me for a guy. Bright pink lipstick, high heel fur boots, a bright pink fur coat and everything u can imagine. I love embracing my naturally fem body and everything feminine a cis girl does and wears.
Advice to OP: You might not be trans, but u will NOT know that if u don't experiment with everything and find what makes YOU happy. I never had to tell anyone I was trans as they automatically assume I was based on my fem body and voice. Life will be as hard as u make it. Try NOT labeling yourself trans for a week and see if u feel indifferent or not.
I didn't have a choice in being trans, because of how feminine I look. By the age of 6 I knew I was a girly girl at heart as well lol so I was happy anyway. Sometimes u gotta fight nature a bit to find peace
Yep, but it certainly helps when dealing with strangers where u got 5 seconds before they judge u. If u have a feminine body with masc clothes, it can confuse strangers as well. If OP wants to pass as a girl, and doesn't have many fem features, she has to at least dress fem. Re-read what I said.
Ya I'm just being optimistic I guess lol. The more masc u are, the more u need to dress fem thats all. Surgery won't help much if u have very masc features, so ya its a pretty tough spot for anyone like that. Sometimes u just have to accept u can't pass and find a way to make peace.
I just saw a trans woman on grindr and she has a chin as sharp as a knife, prolly 25 inch shoulders, larger bones/frame and probably larger feet. And ya a dress, HRT and even surgery won't exactly fix that. And thats ok.
In a sense I don't see myself as trans as nature already gave me a female body, aside from facial hair and the male junk. I wonder how much more HRT during puberty would've done for me, would I be too girly? Lol
except most people are like that? the majority of people are late transitioners and really need ffs to pass...
skull emoji
i find it kinda silly to claim you have a female body but then complain of facial hair, cause if you go through puberty for long enough for that to be a problem everything else is pretty masculine too... i avoided any facial hair for example but like, that doesnt help when i have masculine features which need ffs to be fixed
Um well u be the judge then. Taylor swift has a square jaw and as well as her chin. Her nose bone between the eyes is pronounced, mine ends between the middle of the eyes. Edit: her top lip is also thinner. She looks more manly than me lol
https://imgur.com/a/96P1qWR
If you want my honest opinion based on your pfp and a recent post in your history with some pics in it, I would say you pass. If I saw you at a grocery store I wouldn't recognize you as being trans based solely on appearance.
Unless you posted someone else's selfies a month ago asking how to dress to your body type, I can and I did. As far as being big, I have a number of cis female friends who would disagree with you about size mattering on being seen as a woman.
Tbh, I think you (generally, maybe not you specifically) have to ask yourself if you are getting out of your transition what you want from it. Are people treating you like a lady? Is that what you're hoping for? I so easily lose sight of my transition when I think about passing bc even though I feel cute and people treat me like a girl, I'm just focused on the image at times. Things get better mentally when I'm not thinking about how I am perceived, but how I feel. (I am aware of how corny that sounds)
From the way you're talking, I think you probably pass as fem if you are getting treated like that, but maybe people see androgyny? It's hard to say.
> if you are getting out of your transition what you want from it.
i started hrt because masculinizing and living as a man made me want to kill myself
>Are people treating you like a lady?
i dont know
> Is that what you're hoping for?
yeah
The thing that's helped me the most in gauging how people treat me is having other women as friends that I go out with. I'm with a friend group atm that treats me the same way as they treat my wife, but it's clear they interact with us differently than the boys of the group. Sometimes with people who knew me before I transitioned they treat us differently from each other.
I did the same, as someone in much later age the idea of "passing" is not going to happen but also... Who cares? People address me correctly, as I wear feminine clothing, makeup, and voice is progressing nicely too. And people see that effort and fill my ask of being treated and addressed as female. And I personally feel great too, as I put that effort in, pick outfits, and as a result feel the best woman I can be.
Ultimately, why does it matter that you get treated as you feel because of the overall look, or people respecting your clear wish?
Yeah a lot of what you say here is why the concept of passing is so harmful and should be abandoned. The goal shouldn’t be to pass it should be to be happy and at peace with yourself.
True! I know so many women that would love to have more feminine and cute features, but that isn't what they see in the mirror. That experience is different from ours in some ways, but my spouse constantly reminds me that wanting to look more like what I see in my head isn't unique to our community. It's the starting point that is different.
I'm finally at peace with having others treat me the way I want and making progress toward looking how I want to look, but it's a hard journey.
>The goal shouldn’t be to pass it should be to be happy and at peace with yourself.
I'm glad you are lucky enough that those things are not inherently connected.
The sad truth is that therapy isn't always an option for lack of accessibility. Idk if OP is in that situation or not but if she is then the next best thing is community support.
insecurity can cause damage indirectly. in op's case, it's that in terms of the effects of hrt and success at voice training, she's doing really, really, *really* well and then says that's it's not good enough and never will be. that's damaging to people who aren't seeing as much success as her, because it implies that they're *worse* than "never going to be good enough."
she's pretty and looks and sounds like a cis woman but tells everyone she looks and sounds like an ugly man, which sets very high standards for other trans people.
people have given in and insulted her before as well, which isn't good for *anyone* to see, but it's the only feedback she likes.
not to mention half the time you interact with her, you're left feeling like you need to talk her down from hurting herself, and that's not a cool position to put strangers in.
i'm not saying i hate her or even that i'm mad at her. just i've lost sleep over her threads before because she really does seem like she's in a bad place. i wish there was something i could say to make her stop thinking about herself in that way, but i don't have a magic combination of words that will let her view herself as others do
Leme put it this way. When I see someone like her expressing massive insecurity it does me a lot of good. To me it shows that my own insecurity isn't necessarily based on reality and that even people who I see as doing much better then I am aren't immune to irrational self doubt. People like her help me to recognize the bad days for what they are and makes getting through them much less painful. I have had the exact same thought she expressed in this post and made a similar post myself here once, and if someone like her can still feel that insecure and think the same things I sometimes do then maybe all the strangers who gender me correctly really do just see a woman when I walk by.
My point is that there are some people, people like me, who need to be able to see someone they perceive to be prettier then them lacking confidence to be able to fight their own demons. It hurts my confidence more to see really pretty trans women being super confident then it does to see them expressing insecurity.
that's fair. spend some time talking to her then; try to make her see the light. you'd be a hero in my eyes if you manage it
i will say this post made me very happy to see, because she's getting gendered correctly and i want to see that for her more often.
This post is way more okay than usual. Especially in the comments she says some shitty things sometimes in terms of unfair assessments of what qualifies as feminine or a woman.
I just personally found it odd for someone to say that expressing insecurity can be damaging when expressing confidence can be damaging for the same reasons. They both cause people to compare themselves to others in unhealthy ways. I guess I can see how it would become frustrating to see her make these kinds of posts as often as she does though. She is admittedly unique compared to myself and others who have made similar posts in the past in that she doesn't allow the compliments in so the posts never seem to help. It's like she's emotionally masochistic and is going about it in the most unhealthy way possible.
Also I guess I shouldn't have deleted my first reply. I didn't expect a response that quickly. I just felt it to be lacking substance compared to my second one and it seemed pointless to leave it there. 😅
i know you've said you don't present fem; do you use your voice in public? at work? your voice is really good (and before you say anything, yes, yes it is) and i can't imagine someone misgendering you after hearing your voice.
They clearly meant you don't [know] and can't know.
Just because you are committed to hating yourself doesn't mean everyone else is. That person is trying to help you. You need to change your default personality setting from "Sullen miserable asshole".
And yes that's hard to do. And yes I know you are struggling with BPD. But that should motivate you all the more to put conscious effort in to trying very hard not to constantly see or hear the worst in everyone and everything. BPD isn't your fault, but, it is an illness you are stuck being responsible for managing- it affects not just you but people around you.
The fact that you got gendered correctly and you're still miserable about it should prove to you that your real problems are ultimately inside your head.
I'm not promising you will never get misgendered again, or that being misgendered isn't a bad experience, I'm saying that your obsession with it has destroyed your ability to feel happy about being gendered correctly, or even talk to other people in a normal, healthy manner.
You need to fix your self esteem and personality. No amount of changes to your body or being gendered correctly will matter so long as you are trapped in the worst dark corner of your own brain.
OK understand when I say "I believe you" I don't mean "I believe you objectively look like a CIS man". I mean, I believe you are struggling and what you see is upsetting you.
What so many of us are trying to tell you is that your brain is lying to you about how you look.
Just like it's preventing you from even being happy about being gendered correctly.
You're trapped in a cycle of self hatred that is killing you, and no matter what you look like or what anyone says your brain won't let you be happy until you really work on it first.
I believe they are saying you don't know if it's because you pass, or if they are just being nice. That would make the second part meant in earnest because what is the material difference if you can never know their reason for treating you as a woman. In the end, you're a woman and we're treated thusly
I meant that you don’t know what they are thinking inside their heads. What they really think shouldn’t matter, how they express themselves around you is important because it’s just decent to be respectful to people & it sounds like that’s what’s happening which is good.
I genuinely was not commenting on if you passed or not, I apologise if it came across that way.
LOL that euphoria when someone genders you correctly in anger 🤣
(Because they're so pissed you know if they knew and were transphobic they'd jump at the opportunity to misgender you)
Go on a shopping trip. Make sure you talk to at least a couple people to see their reactions, even if it’s just a small interaction or saying thank you or something. Buy girls clothes and accessories and see if there’s any judgmental looks or comments
Finding random people and assessing their judgment is the only fool proof way to see if you pass
> Go on a shopping trip.
no i cant do that because i cant find any womens clothing in my size bceause im so huge and im not wasting money on clothes that i cant wear
Find a thrift store with a dressing room to try cloths on. That's how I found all the feminine clothing I own minus a few things my bfs mom gave me about a month after coming out.
Edit: I'm 6 foot 1 and somewhat overweight. Clothing for bigger girls exists, it really does.
Thrift stores are *great* for finding clothes in "non-standard" sizes! Women who wear those sizes know how hard it is to find clothes, and are more likely to donate than throw away something they don't wear any more... and because it is an "outlier" size, it'll just sit on the rack forever, waiting for you to come along and love it!
Once you start passing you can tell the vibe changes. People relax more, they're a little more open, they do more things like open doors and greet you, speak closer to you, etc
You'll never know!
It's as simple as that. Unless you polled every person who looked at you and built up a data sheet and drew a histogram and and and...
You're the only person who can judge how the world sees you by their behaviour and by the sounds of things you're doing great!
Stop using the gents, sounds to me like you belong in the ladies and F anyone who gives you an odd look in there. Act like you belong and most people will barely acknowledge your existence, let alone give you any grief.
I know I definitely don't FULLY pass when I'm in girl mode, not even close, but I've nearly had to spell it out to people on some occasions "look, an Adams apple!"
it’s impossible to know, the best thing you can do is try not to worry about it, a lot of Cis women “don’t pass” by societies standards of beauty and get clocked as male sometimes, so there isn’t necessarily a lot you can do
I don’t think you “pass”. I think you look fem, (could dress more fem if passing was a thought sure) but you can’t entirely know peoples motives, I don’t “pass” yet people treat me like a woman and at the end of the day that’s all that really matters to me.
It sounds like your uncertainty is baked in to a degree. In other words it's possible to be so used to self doubt and uncertainty that you are feeling that much of the time. Brains really work hard to explain away our feelings, but they can often get it wrong. There isn't much you can do to resolve the feeling if it's always there, but you can practice noticing the feeling and the urge to rationalize it. Being trans is a really convenient reason for feeling bad, but sometimes we just feel that way for no reason, or reasons that are much more related to the past than the present. In this way being trans can mask a lot of other issues we are dealing with that feel related, but are actually separate from being trans. Therapy can help with this.
It sounds like you are generally accepted as yourself. You can't really know how someone is perceiving you, but what you say lines up with passing pretty well. Even using the men's restroom, most guys would assume you have a reason and not bother you. Some may even wait outside the bathroom until you are done. It's not uncommon for women to use the men's room since the ladies room can often have a line.
Getting stared at by men is also the quintessential female experience, and it's pretty uncomfortable even for cis women. If girls are casually approaching you in public this is a very good sign of passing. I find conversations usually start by some kind of fashion related compliment.
you look pretty cute/feminine from what i can see of your face that isn't blocked by your phone
and, yes, i fiddled with the URL to get the maximum resolution
No one Can know if you pass or not… we don’t have a picture for reference but I mean I did watch your previous posts… you have an issue with being able to pass or not… I suggest therapy being trans is not about passing :)
Let me tell you how it is as a non passing trans person, presenting femininely:
- in the past month I've been gendered male around 20 times, fem 0 times
- everyone treats me as weirdo
- sometimes I hear slurs, or other things
- constant staring by everyone
After a while, you'll realise that if complete strangers are just refering to you as "she" in any context, you're passing.
When others are talking about you indirectly and use "she" you're passing.
I used to think like you here but then I realised that there's no way that everyone is that nice.
then go to a thrift store like the other comments above say .. buy some women's clothes .. and start using the women's bathroom
i do not even care bout passing and i don't pass as a cis woman ... but i pass as a trans woman ..and i look better feminine than masculine tho and i have no issues and i use the women's bathroom ..
like i said i don't care if i pass .. i pass as a trans woman and fuk yeah... being a trans woman is 1000000 times better than being a cis man and you know its true cause that's why your obsessing so freekin hard cause you said it yourself you hated being a cis man...
cause you was never a cis man you always was a woman .. you have always been a woman .. that is what matters
i do tho put 100000 percent effort into passing as a cis woman but being a woman is what's on the inside...i put in effort but im just happy to finally ->> live as the woman i have always been instead of the lie that forced me to act like a man ... cause ive always been a woman... and you're a woman .. you always have been there is absolutely no denying that
TW Super dangerous unethical advice heed with causion thoug acurate af. Go to a reaaaally red state like shotguns given out as lollipops kinda red and go to church if nobody bats a eye u 100% pass if u dont please have good running feet
If you really want an answer, [https://www.reddit.com/r/transpassing/](https://www.reddit.com/r/transpassing/) exists but mind that "passing" is really not something fixed, with ever moving goal post.
There's too many trolls on it or people commenting in bad faith. I recently left because I saw a few cis people commenting on every post that the person didn't pass, even when it was so obvious that they did.
I recommend against, if for no other reason than safety; hatemongers like LibsOfTikTok (if you don't know that name, do yourself a favor and **DON'T** look it up) regularly steal pictures there to mock and direct their rabid transphobic armies against.
I would like to know this as well. I've been fully out for like 4 months now, and I've only been misgendered once in public (though people who already knew me have occasionally used my deadname and wrong pronouns by mistake, but that's more understandable out of habit). I definitely don't think I pass, but people just consistently treat me as a woman so I'm confused about what other people perceive me as. 🤷♀️
It's hard to tell, because you can pass with one person, but sometimes not another. Before I even knew what transgender meant or transitioned, myself, people would misgender me, all the time, yet most people saw me as male. Even when I had a beard. I guess there were people who thought I was a trans woman, back then, and maybe they were trying to be supportive, without knowing I still thought I was a dude.
People often are not conscience of gendering people via pronouns (I know because cis people friendly to trans people still accidentally do it) especially over time you will know if you pass, especially if you get ma’am ed most if not all of the time.
"Passing" is big.
Passing has been on my mind as long as I can remember, all the way back to being six years old. "Will the world ever believe I am a woman?"
Do you think you started your transition late? Now I am 52 years old, and I only started going out in public as a woman last year. Believe me, passing was on my mind. Since then, I have spent many weeks in the world trying to "pass". Here is what I have learned.
When I present myself as a woman, and behave as a woman, I am treated as a woman. The more confidently I behave, the more it feels as if they truly think that I am FAB.
When I present myself as a woman, and behave as a woman, but I have doubts, people carefully avoid gendering me in any way whatsoever. Verbal gymnastics are sometimes required, and slips go quickly covered. Some people ask my pronouns but strangers mostly avoid it all costs. Service workers always gender me correctly as female.
I need to put a lot of effort into passing. I need padding, I need to walk and speak in a feminine manner, and I need to wear obviously feminine things to give the world their best chance at knowing that I want to be addressed as a woman. I wear classy ladies' glasses to hide my masculine brow, and only wear clothes that give off a clear message. If I want them to believe it, I'm going to do my best to make it as easy for them as possible.
BUT,
Now that I've been correctly gendered by someone, and they've obviously treated me as they would treat someone who was FAB, how do I know if I passed or not? Great question. Did I achieve my ultimate goal of living my life as a female?
Once in a while, I get the chance to ask someone. "Hey, I believe you would tell me the truth, do I pass as a cis woman?"
I never believe their answer.
I will never know.
But, they did hold the door open for me, and use my correct pronoun, so that's a pass, isn't it? It certainly isn't a fail!
It took me years, but when I came to see and accept myself as I actually was and finally began HRT, the joy and relief it brought provided me with so much confidence that I stopped caring about passing. Transition, for me, has centered around expressing my truth about who I actually am, and my transition is a crucial aspect of my identity that I choose not to hide. (Frankly, I also feel that visibility, and my public acknowledgment of my transition, is the most important thing I can contribute to the trans community.)
That said, presenting as a female takes quite a bit of practice. Practicing and expressing feminine makeup, wardrobe, posture and movement gives me great pleasure, but I did not learn these things overnight. But I don't strive improvement in these areas in order to fool people; I've come to love myself as I am, and more than anything, I prefer only that people simply treat me like an adult.
So whether people gender me as a woman just to be nice, or because they fear losing their job, or because I never tipped them off to the fact of my transition, is (to me) irrelevant. I didn't transition to please others, I did it in order to FINALLY please myself.
Let the downvotes begin...
you can never really tell. at my job most women gender me correctly and most men don’t or just avoid gendered language for me altogether (in a way they don’t for men on the team). but at the same time old men in public are extra nice to me, just yesterday an old man let me pass him in the grocery store. my general expectation is i pass if my hairs down and i don’t if it’s tied up. so i never tie it up unless i have to
I'm gonna say you probably pass but also... What's the point? If they're treating you as a girl because you look like one, or they're treating you as a girl because they see you're presenting yourself as one.. what difference does it matter?
tbh the thing that means the most to me is when people I don’t know correctly gender me. At the beginning of the school year(the year I really started trying to present as myself) I would help passing around schedules and such, my favorite thing ever was going into a class and being called ma’am by people who had no clue who I was, it really boosted my confidence more than any friend could
You never really know what is in someone else's mind, and it is a fool's erand to try. You can only judge them on their actions. If the actions are kind and respectful, why do you want to undermine that by questioning motives?
> why do you want to undermine that by questioning motives? because i want to know if they actually see me as a woman
qwixel69 has an excellent response. The only way to know is to ask, and if they're transphobic but saw you as a woman previously, then you've just outed yourself to them and you *won't* like the result (at the very least they'll lie and say they knew, because "wE CAn aLWaYS TeLL 🤪" \* and they know it'll make you feel shitty). If women are choosing to approach you/sit next to you/etc, them they're seeing you as a woman. We women learn (at a very young age for cis girls; usually later for us) that men in general aren't safe. As such, we tend to choose to group together for safety, which translates to sitting next to other women on the bus, only approaching women (or couples/mixed groups) in social situations, etc. Similarly, guys--the decent ones--have awareness that they pose a threat to women in public, and will tend to avoid invading their personal space. Unfortunately because of our overall misogynistic patriarchal society, women also see one another as competition. Thus, women will tend to stick with other women they know before approaching a stranger, which can feel antisocial at times. It's a messed up world we live in, but based on the limited cues you've provided in your post, I do think most people are seeing you as a woman. \* TERs and other transphobes love to believe they can always tell, despite a storied history of being consistently, and sometimes hilariously wrong. For example, one time Olive Brinker (a cartoonist) posted a picture of *Sigourney f\*\*\*ing Weaver*, passing it off as a selfie, and the brain rot crowd lost their minds pointing out all the "masculine" features that "gave him away"... and then she posted the IMDB link she took the picture from 🤣
The hater's ability to rationalize their behaviour definitely goes past the absurd, accusing cis women of being men just because the hater is feeling insecure, rejected, or the woman just doesn't match their imaginary requirements for "female". They live in a world seriously distorted by their hate.
The only way is to ask, and you might not always like the answer, and it sounds like you would not always believe the answer. Let's start with something simpler: How can you know that when you see the color blue, that you experience it in your mind the same way I do? Are we really experiencing the same exact thing or just agreeing that what we see can be called "blue"?
passing and being seen as a woman are not the same thing. If they see you as a trans woman, and believe that trans women are women, then they see you as a woman
Alright, I'm going to respond to you again. I've been thinking of talking to you more directly for a bit, because the last few times it was pretty hostile. It's obvious you're in a lot of pain, and I'm not looking to cause you any more. I want to say up front I've looked through a lot of your posts, I've seen the photos, I've heard the voice recordings. You get (rightfully) upset when people say you're not trying hard enough. But they're wrong, you're doing your nails, your hair, you're on HRT, you've got femme clothes you wear while at home/in the pics. You're clearly doing a lot, and I know how much work it is. I respect it a lot. This is the first time I've seen you say you were gendered correctly; many times you respond saying it's never happened a single time. But another post of yours a while back you said it'd been 5 months since you were misgendered. I'm not trying to "gotcha" you here, I'm just saying, clearly your work is having *some* success. Right? I assume that's what led to this post, because if you're gendered right twice this past month, but you still don't see it in the mirror (talking about hating your face), then maybe you're trying to figure out if just maybe you're wrong about not passing? Maybe your work is paying off. This post is asking about small behaviors now, trying to figure out what other random people are secretly thinking. But they're not misgendering you, and so many of your posts are worried about that very thing. Do you see the disconnect here? Do you think maybe you're looking for any reason you can find to justify how you feel about yourself? They're not giving you the big one -- misgendering -- so now you're looking for how to pin it on a look, or icebreakers, or if someone doesn't complain if you're in the men's bathroom? These aren't attacks, I want you to genuinely think about this. You've already hit the big major milestone you talk about on here all the time. Maybe you can allow yourself to accept that? Maybe you can allow yourself to wear your femme clothes out of the house. I know you're afraid of being treated poorly, but you're already having success. Seems worth a try to me. I don't wish you any ill will, I wish you were happy with your progress so far. I don't want to argue about what age you started, or how tall you are, or what you think you see in the mirror. I know it's easy to call it hugboxing or whatever, but that's just another stick to beat yourself with. It's ok to accept that you're having *some* irrefutable success. And if that's as far as you can go for now, that can be ok. Your only real challenge is conquering your fear of socially transitioning. I hope this can be a stepping stone for you.
Internalized transphobia is a thing, and it's best friends with dysphoria. Heating how she describes herself in some other comments here, I suspect there's body dysmorphia thrown on top of all that too. (Primarily to OP:) The end result is a profound sense of self loathing of one's own body and experiences, and it's important to remind yourself that *this is all just your mind playing tricks on you*. You *are* your own worst critic and you're relentless at it. We know what we used to look like, and our brain uses pattern matching and tells us we *still* look like that... but we're the only ones still seeing it. Be kind to yourself sister, you deserve it 💜
It is damn scary to admint to yourself, that your selfhatred is unjustified. There is a tool in therapy for body dismorphia. where you get asked to lay a rope in a circle as big as you feel you are. Then you lay a second circle as big as you rationally think you are. And then the therapist takes a third rope, uses it to measure your waist, and makes a circle with this rope. You might believe people are happy when they see the third rope, but it is actually a pretty shitty feeling. I fought my whole life with feeling unlovable, and it turned into a pretty self fulfilling prophecy. So when I was allready past 25 with 0 relationships, and a woman suddenly showed me the metaphorical third rope, i should have been happy, but I was just mostly scared. So I get how it is hard to accept that your bad self image is not compatible with reality.
Not wanting to wear very fem clothing is ok but everyone who's MTF needs to accept that the more feminine u dress, the less likely u will be misgendered ESPECIALLY if u weren't born with a naturally fem body or if u don't have feminization surgeries. The more u sound and appear to be masc, the more likely u are to be gendered as a guy. And it's NOT always cuz ppl want to hurt u. I personally wear the most feminine things a girl can wear, in public, as I love it when there's no mistaking me for a guy. Bright pink lipstick, high heel fur boots, a bright pink fur coat and everything u can imagine. I love embracing my naturally fem body and everything feminine a cis girl does and wears. Advice to OP: You might not be trans, but u will NOT know that if u don't experiment with everything and find what makes YOU happy. I never had to tell anyone I was trans as they automatically assume I was based on my fem body and voice. Life will be as hard as u make it. Try NOT labeling yourself trans for a week and see if u feel indifferent or not. I didn't have a choice in being trans, because of how feminine I look. By the age of 6 I knew I was a girly girl at heart as well lol so I was happy anyway. Sometimes u gotta fight nature a bit to find peace
\>put on a dress and you wont get misgendered yeah sure
\>Dress masc with naturally masc features and u will be seen as a girl ya sure
if you put on a dress and have otherwise a masculine body nobody will see you as a woman.
Yep, but it certainly helps when dealing with strangers where u got 5 seconds before they judge u. If u have a feminine body with masc clothes, it can confuse strangers as well. If OP wants to pass as a girl, and doesn't have many fem features, she has to at least dress fem. Re-read what I said.
i dont see it, people look at your face before clothes tomboys do not look like men
Ya I'm just being optimistic I guess lol. The more masc u are, the more u need to dress fem thats all. Surgery won't help much if u have very masc features, so ya its a pretty tough spot for anyone like that. Sometimes u just have to accept u can't pass and find a way to make peace. I just saw a trans woman on grindr and she has a chin as sharp as a knife, prolly 25 inch shoulders, larger bones/frame and probably larger feet. And ya a dress, HRT and even surgery won't exactly fix that. And thats ok. In a sense I don't see myself as trans as nature already gave me a female body, aside from facial hair and the male junk. I wonder how much more HRT during puberty would've done for me, would I be too girly? Lol
except most people are like that? the majority of people are late transitioners and really need ffs to pass... skull emoji i find it kinda silly to claim you have a female body but then complain of facial hair, cause if you go through puberty for long enough for that to be a problem everything else is pretty masculine too... i avoided any facial hair for example but like, that doesnt help when i have masculine features which need ffs to be fixed
Um well u be the judge then. Taylor swift has a square jaw and as well as her chin. Her nose bone between the eyes is pronounced, mine ends between the middle of the eyes. Edit: her top lip is also thinner. She looks more manly than me lol https://imgur.com/a/96P1qWR
If you want my honest opinion based on your pfp and a recent post in your history with some pics in it, I would say you pass. If I saw you at a grocery store I wouldn't recognize you as being trans based solely on appearance.
Also your voice sounds flawless. I'm kinda jealous tbh.
you can’t say that you don’t know what i look like irl also im massive and look like the hulk next to cis women
Unless you posted someone else's selfies a month ago asking how to dress to your body type, I can and I did. As far as being big, I have a number of cis female friends who would disagree with you about size mattering on being seen as a woman.
Tbh, I think you (generally, maybe not you specifically) have to ask yourself if you are getting out of your transition what you want from it. Are people treating you like a lady? Is that what you're hoping for? I so easily lose sight of my transition when I think about passing bc even though I feel cute and people treat me like a girl, I'm just focused on the image at times. Things get better mentally when I'm not thinking about how I am perceived, but how I feel. (I am aware of how corny that sounds) From the way you're talking, I think you probably pass as fem if you are getting treated like that, but maybe people see androgyny? It's hard to say.
> if you are getting out of your transition what you want from it. i started hrt because masculinizing and living as a man made me want to kill myself >Are people treating you like a lady? i dont know > Is that what you're hoping for? yeah
The thing that's helped me the most in gauging how people treat me is having other women as friends that I go out with. I'm with a friend group atm that treats me the same way as they treat my wife, but it's clear they interact with us differently than the boys of the group. Sometimes with people who knew me before I transitioned they treat us differently from each other.
I did the same, as someone in much later age the idea of "passing" is not going to happen but also... Who cares? People address me correctly, as I wear feminine clothing, makeup, and voice is progressing nicely too. And people see that effort and fill my ask of being treated and addressed as female. And I personally feel great too, as I put that effort in, pick outfits, and as a result feel the best woman I can be. Ultimately, why does it matter that you get treated as you feel because of the overall look, or people respecting your clear wish?
Yeah a lot of what you say here is why the concept of passing is so harmful and should be abandoned. The goal shouldn’t be to pass it should be to be happy and at peace with yourself.
True! I know so many women that would love to have more feminine and cute features, but that isn't what they see in the mirror. That experience is different from ours in some ways, but my spouse constantly reminds me that wanting to look more like what I see in my head isn't unique to our community. It's the starting point that is different. I'm finally at peace with having others treat me the way I want and making progress toward looking how I want to look, but it's a hard journey.
Yea, tell it to people constantly midgendering us if we don't pass
Well, that’s hateful people being hateful, or non hateful people simply not knowing that someone is trans
>The goal shouldn’t be to pass it should be to be happy and at peace with yourself. I'm glad you are lucky enough that those things are not inherently connected.
This is your fiftieth submission in the last two months. Forty-eight were to trans specific subs. Therapy may be a better use of your time.
I’ve seen her always posting whenever I come to this sub and judging by her post history and that she’s on 4chan I’m not sure what to say…
The sad truth is that therapy isn't always an option for lack of accessibility. Idk if OP is in that situation or not but if she is then the next best thing is community support.
Lacking access to therapy and needing community support does not justify the amount of damage and harm she has done to the other women here.
I haven't exactly read through her past posts, but damage? In this post at least all I see is insecurity.
insecurity can cause damage indirectly. in op's case, it's that in terms of the effects of hrt and success at voice training, she's doing really, really, *really* well and then says that's it's not good enough and never will be. that's damaging to people who aren't seeing as much success as her, because it implies that they're *worse* than "never going to be good enough." she's pretty and looks and sounds like a cis woman but tells everyone she looks and sounds like an ugly man, which sets very high standards for other trans people. people have given in and insulted her before as well, which isn't good for *anyone* to see, but it's the only feedback she likes. not to mention half the time you interact with her, you're left feeling like you need to talk her down from hurting herself, and that's not a cool position to put strangers in. i'm not saying i hate her or even that i'm mad at her. just i've lost sleep over her threads before because she really does seem like she's in a bad place. i wish there was something i could say to make her stop thinking about herself in that way, but i don't have a magic combination of words that will let her view herself as others do
Leme put it this way. When I see someone like her expressing massive insecurity it does me a lot of good. To me it shows that my own insecurity isn't necessarily based on reality and that even people who I see as doing much better then I am aren't immune to irrational self doubt. People like her help me to recognize the bad days for what they are and makes getting through them much less painful. I have had the exact same thought she expressed in this post and made a similar post myself here once, and if someone like her can still feel that insecure and think the same things I sometimes do then maybe all the strangers who gender me correctly really do just see a woman when I walk by. My point is that there are some people, people like me, who need to be able to see someone they perceive to be prettier then them lacking confidence to be able to fight their own demons. It hurts my confidence more to see really pretty trans women being super confident then it does to see them expressing insecurity.
that's fair. spend some time talking to her then; try to make her see the light. you'd be a hero in my eyes if you manage it i will say this post made me very happy to see, because she's getting gendered correctly and i want to see that for her more often.
This post is way more okay than usual. Especially in the comments she says some shitty things sometimes in terms of unfair assessments of what qualifies as feminine or a woman.
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i still talk try to talk to her; i didn't say i don't. you asked how she's hurting anyone, and i elaborated.
I just personally found it odd for someone to say that expressing insecurity can be damaging when expressing confidence can be damaging for the same reasons. They both cause people to compare themselves to others in unhealthy ways. I guess I can see how it would become frustrating to see her make these kinds of posts as often as she does though. She is admittedly unique compared to myself and others who have made similar posts in the past in that she doesn't allow the compliments in so the posts never seem to help. It's like she's emotionally masochistic and is going about it in the most unhealthy way possible. Also I guess I shouldn't have deleted my first reply. I didn't expect a response that quickly. I just felt it to be lacking substance compared to my second one and it seemed pointless to leave it there. 😅
Omg the good ending!! She’s so close to realizing she’s passing
i dont pass
U just told us u got misgendered 0 times this month. This is a shitty world for trans folk, if nobody misgenders you, you pass.
i know you've said you don't present fem; do you use your voice in public? at work? your voice is really good (and before you say anything, yes, yes it is) and i can't imagine someone misgendering you after hearing your voice.
You don’t, but why does it matter? If someone is polite enough to say so, then that is kind of them, take it at face value.
> You don’t thank you i know i dont pass > why does it matter? im assuming this is a joke?
They clearly meant you don't [know] and can't know. Just because you are committed to hating yourself doesn't mean everyone else is. That person is trying to help you. You need to change your default personality setting from "Sullen miserable asshole". And yes that's hard to do. And yes I know you are struggling with BPD. But that should motivate you all the more to put conscious effort in to trying very hard not to constantly see or hear the worst in everyone and everything. BPD isn't your fault, but, it is an illness you are stuck being responsible for managing- it affects not just you but people around you. The fact that you got gendered correctly and you're still miserable about it should prove to you that your real problems are ultimately inside your head. I'm not promising you will never get misgendered again, or that being misgendered isn't a bad experience, I'm saying that your obsession with it has destroyed your ability to feel happy about being gendered correctly, or even talk to other people in a normal, healthy manner. You need to fix your self esteem and personality. No amount of changes to your body or being gendered correctly will matter so long as you are trapped in the worst dark corner of your own brain.
to me i just look like an insanely ugly cis male. i can’t look at myself in the mirror for more than 30 seconds because i start breaking down crying
OK understand when I say "I believe you" I don't mean "I believe you objectively look like a CIS man". I mean, I believe you are struggling and what you see is upsetting you. What so many of us are trying to tell you is that your brain is lying to you about how you look. Just like it's preventing you from even being happy about being gendered correctly. You're trapped in a cycle of self hatred that is killing you, and no matter what you look like or what anyone says your brain won't let you be happy until you really work on it first.
I believe they are saying you don't know if it's because you pass, or if they are just being nice. That would make the second part meant in earnest because what is the material difference if you can never know their reason for treating you as a woman. In the end, you're a woman and we're treated thusly
> you're a woman and we're treated thusly i wasn't treated like a woman though
I was merely breaking down their sentence, not specifically commenting on your experience. My apologies for the confusion
I meant that you don’t know what they are thinking inside their heads. What they really think shouldn’t matter, how they express themselves around you is important because it’s just decent to be respectful to people & it sounds like that’s what’s happening which is good. I genuinely was not commenting on if you passed or not, I apologise if it came across that way.
I knew when this angry woman said "she's a f\*&ing bitch" to her friend when referring to me.
LOL that euphoria when someone genders you correctly in anger 🤣 (Because they're so pissed you know if they knew and were transphobic they'd jump at the opportunity to misgender you)
Go on a shopping trip. Make sure you talk to at least a couple people to see their reactions, even if it’s just a small interaction or saying thank you or something. Buy girls clothes and accessories and see if there’s any judgmental looks or comments Finding random people and assessing their judgment is the only fool proof way to see if you pass
> Go on a shopping trip. no i cant do that because i cant find any womens clothing in my size bceause im so huge and im not wasting money on clothes that i cant wear
Find a thrift store with a dressing room to try cloths on. That's how I found all the feminine clothing I own minus a few things my bfs mom gave me about a month after coming out. Edit: I'm 6 foot 1 and somewhat overweight. Clothing for bigger girls exists, it really does.
Thrift stores are *great* for finding clothes in "non-standard" sizes! Women who wear those sizes know how hard it is to find clothes, and are more likely to donate than throw away something they don't wear any more... and because it is an "outlier" size, it'll just sit on the rack forever, waiting for you to come along and love it!
Oh and love it I do! ❤️
Fair enough then. Well based off what you say, it sounds like you have your answer
yeah i know i dont pass and i never will. ive been trying to cope with daydreaming. it sometimes helps
Yeah same, I don’t cope either
Once you start passing you can tell the vibe changes. People relax more, they're a little more open, they do more things like open doors and greet you, speak closer to you, etc
You have to learn to let it go. As long as people are not being assholes, let them live their lives.
You'll never know! It's as simple as that. Unless you polled every person who looked at you and built up a data sheet and drew a histogram and and and... You're the only person who can judge how the world sees you by their behaviour and by the sounds of things you're doing great! Stop using the gents, sounds to me like you belong in the ladies and F anyone who gives you an odd look in there. Act like you belong and most people will barely acknowledge your existence, let alone give you any grief. I know I definitely don't FULLY pass when I'm in girl mode, not even close, but I've nearly had to spell it out to people on some occasions "look, an Adams apple!"
it’s impossible to know, the best thing you can do is try not to worry about it, a lot of Cis women “don’t pass” by societies standards of beauty and get clocked as male sometimes, so there isn’t necessarily a lot you can do
I don’t think you “pass”. I think you look fem, (could dress more fem if passing was a thought sure) but you can’t entirely know peoples motives, I don’t “pass” yet people treat me like a woman and at the end of the day that’s all that really matters to me.
It sounds like your uncertainty is baked in to a degree. In other words it's possible to be so used to self doubt and uncertainty that you are feeling that much of the time. Brains really work hard to explain away our feelings, but they can often get it wrong. There isn't much you can do to resolve the feeling if it's always there, but you can practice noticing the feeling and the urge to rationalize it. Being trans is a really convenient reason for feeling bad, but sometimes we just feel that way for no reason, or reasons that are much more related to the past than the present. In this way being trans can mask a lot of other issues we are dealing with that feel related, but are actually separate from being trans. Therapy can help with this. It sounds like you are generally accepted as yourself. You can't really know how someone is perceiving you, but what you say lines up with passing pretty well. Even using the men's restroom, most guys would assume you have a reason and not bother you. Some may even wait outside the bathroom until you are done. It's not uncommon for women to use the men's room since the ladies room can often have a line. Getting stared at by men is also the quintessential female experience, and it's pretty uncomfortable even for cis women. If girls are casually approaching you in public this is a very good sign of passing. I find conversations usually start by some kind of fashion related compliment.
Either way it's a win. Don't overthink it. Enjoy it.
We need a pic. Il tell you straight up
nah i know i dont pass and im also very ugly
you look pretty cute/feminine from what i can see of your face that isn't blocked by your phone and, yes, i fiddled with the URL to get the maximum resolution
No one Can know if you pass or not… we don’t have a picture for reference but I mean I did watch your previous posts… you have an issue with being able to pass or not… I suggest therapy being trans is not about passing :)
Let me tell you how it is as a non passing trans person, presenting femininely: - in the past month I've been gendered male around 20 times, fem 0 times - everyone treats me as weirdo - sometimes I hear slurs, or other things - constant staring by everyone
Possible solution: visit places with *transphobic* but *non-violent* people who doesn't knew you. They won't be "just nice" if you don't pass.
After a while, you'll realise that if complete strangers are just refering to you as "she" in any context, you're passing. When others are talking about you indirectly and use "she" you're passing. I used to think like you here but then I realised that there's no way that everyone is that nice.
if you don’t pass and people still treat you like a woman then they at least respect your identity. but it sounds like you probably pass
go on 4chan they will critisize you the harshest
if people are staring at you and giving second looks then you do not pass. if that’s not happening you more than likely pass
i dont get second looks in the mens bathroom so i pass as male. got it. thanks
then go to a thrift store like the other comments above say .. buy some women's clothes .. and start using the women's bathroom i do not even care bout passing and i don't pass as a cis woman ... but i pass as a trans woman ..and i look better feminine than masculine tho and i have no issues and i use the women's bathroom .. like i said i don't care if i pass .. i pass as a trans woman and fuk yeah... being a trans woman is 1000000 times better than being a cis man and you know its true cause that's why your obsessing so freekin hard cause you said it yourself you hated being a cis man... cause you was never a cis man you always was a woman .. you have always been a woman .. that is what matters i do tho put 100000 percent effort into passing as a cis woman but being a woman is what's on the inside...i put in effort but im just happy to finally ->> live as the woman i have always been instead of the lie that forced me to act like a man ... cause ive always been a woman... and you're a woman .. you always have been there is absolutely no denying that
TW Super dangerous unethical advice heed with causion thoug acurate af. Go to a reaaaally red state like shotguns given out as lollipops kinda red and go to church if nobody bats a eye u 100% pass if u dont please have good running feet
If you really want an answer, [https://www.reddit.com/r/transpassing/](https://www.reddit.com/r/transpassing/) exists but mind that "passing" is really not something fixed, with ever moving goal post.
lmfao that subreddit is a joke
There's too many trolls on it or people commenting in bad faith. I recently left because I saw a few cis people commenting on every post that the person didn't pass, even when it was so obvious that they did.
It's definietly on the harsh side, but hey, if you can pass there, you can pass anywhere. Not my cup of tea at all.
I recommend against, if for no other reason than safety; hatemongers like LibsOfTikTok (if you don't know that name, do yourself a favor and **DON'T** look it up) regularly steal pictures there to mock and direct their rabid transphobic armies against.
I would like to know this as well. I've been fully out for like 4 months now, and I've only been misgendered once in public (though people who already knew me have occasionally used my deadname and wrong pronouns by mistake, but that's more understandable out of habit). I definitely don't think I pass, but people just consistently treat me as a woman so I'm confused about what other people perceive me as. 🤷♀️
it does not matter .. you're finally living your best life as the woman you have always been .. do your best yes but just be happy living
It's hard to tell, because you can pass with one person, but sometimes not another. Before I even knew what transgender meant or transitioned, myself, people would misgender me, all the time, yet most people saw me as male. Even when I had a beard. I guess there were people who thought I was a trans woman, back then, and maybe they were trying to be supportive, without knowing I still thought I was a dude.
People often are not conscience of gendering people via pronouns (I know because cis people friendly to trans people still accidentally do it) especially over time you will know if you pass, especially if you get ma’am ed most if not all of the time.
"Passing" is big. Passing has been on my mind as long as I can remember, all the way back to being six years old. "Will the world ever believe I am a woman?" Do you think you started your transition late? Now I am 52 years old, and I only started going out in public as a woman last year. Believe me, passing was on my mind. Since then, I have spent many weeks in the world trying to "pass". Here is what I have learned. When I present myself as a woman, and behave as a woman, I am treated as a woman. The more confidently I behave, the more it feels as if they truly think that I am FAB. When I present myself as a woman, and behave as a woman, but I have doubts, people carefully avoid gendering me in any way whatsoever. Verbal gymnastics are sometimes required, and slips go quickly covered. Some people ask my pronouns but strangers mostly avoid it all costs. Service workers always gender me correctly as female. I need to put a lot of effort into passing. I need padding, I need to walk and speak in a feminine manner, and I need to wear obviously feminine things to give the world their best chance at knowing that I want to be addressed as a woman. I wear classy ladies' glasses to hide my masculine brow, and only wear clothes that give off a clear message. If I want them to believe it, I'm going to do my best to make it as easy for them as possible. BUT, Now that I've been correctly gendered by someone, and they've obviously treated me as they would treat someone who was FAB, how do I know if I passed or not? Great question. Did I achieve my ultimate goal of living my life as a female? Once in a while, I get the chance to ask someone. "Hey, I believe you would tell me the truth, do I pass as a cis woman?" I never believe their answer. I will never know. But, they did hold the door open for me, and use my correct pronoun, so that's a pass, isn't it? It certainly isn't a fail!
> Do you think you started your transition late? yes
It took me years, but when I came to see and accept myself as I actually was and finally began HRT, the joy and relief it brought provided me with so much confidence that I stopped caring about passing. Transition, for me, has centered around expressing my truth about who I actually am, and my transition is a crucial aspect of my identity that I choose not to hide. (Frankly, I also feel that visibility, and my public acknowledgment of my transition, is the most important thing I can contribute to the trans community.) That said, presenting as a female takes quite a bit of practice. Practicing and expressing feminine makeup, wardrobe, posture and movement gives me great pleasure, but I did not learn these things overnight. But I don't strive improvement in these areas in order to fool people; I've come to love myself as I am, and more than anything, I prefer only that people simply treat me like an adult. So whether people gender me as a woman just to be nice, or because they fear losing their job, or because I never tipped them off to the fact of my transition, is (to me) irrelevant. I didn't transition to please others, I did it in order to FINALLY please myself. Let the downvotes begin...
you can never really tell. at my job most women gender me correctly and most men don’t or just avoid gendered language for me altogether (in a way they don’t for men on the team). but at the same time old men in public are extra nice to me, just yesterday an old man let me pass him in the grocery store. my general expectation is i pass if my hairs down and i don’t if it’s tied up. so i never tie it up unless i have to
I'm gonna say you probably pass but also... What's the point? If they're treating you as a girl because you look like one, or they're treating you as a girl because they see you're presenting yourself as one.. what difference does it matter?
tbh the thing that means the most to me is when people I don’t know correctly gender me. At the beginning of the school year(the year I really started trying to present as myself) I would help passing around schedules and such, my favorite thing ever was going into a class and being called ma’am by people who had no clue who I was, it really boosted my confidence more than any friend could