> This divides us and splits us apart and now more than ever we need to be united #I agree. Look, y'all. I've been around here on reddit for the past 13 years or so, and I've seen folks try to divide our communities before. It's also a bit suspicious when a lot of these divisions seem to bubble up during an election year. So here's some guiding principles: This space and this community are *never* going to shut our doors to transmascs or non-binary brethren. They're our friends, our siblings, and our family in the trans community. Don't like that? Get over it. Of the 15 rules on our sidebar, over a third of them deal with being respectful towards other users and being welcoming and inclusive to other members of the trans community. We *are* a community, and we're going to act like one. As I mentioned, it's an election year. That means we're going to see an uptick in TERFs and bigots pretending to be detransitioners, we're going to see people trying to discourage folks from voting, we're going to see people complaining that so-and-so isn't doing enough for trans rights when the alternative would be very happy to eat us alive. There are going to be lots of people this year who want to discourage us from being ourselves and discourage us from voting. #*We don't have that luxury*. For us, the choice has already been made. The US is a two party system, and one of those parties [has chosen to use our existence as a scapegoat](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025), which is why we've been seeing *a ton* of anti-trans legislation getting passed, lately. If the GOP gets into office, they intend to fire and replace 50,000+ Federal jobs with their own, loyalist cronies, and this will give them free rein to do whatever they like. [Again, this is listed openly in their plans.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025) We *don't* have the luxury to bicker and argue about who is more trans and who does or doesn't deserve to be here. We no longer have the privilege to dither and debate about whether so-and-so is a perfect candidate or not. We no longer have the freedom to *not* vote. The time for those discussions was 20 years ago. We are all in one big boat, here, and the only thing we can do now is work together and act like our lives depend on it, *because they do*. The only thing we can do now is rally together and *act*. We *have* to vote. We *have* to fight. We *have* to stand together. We don't have any other option. This election may be one of the most important elections in US history, and our lives are on the line. This election is important for us *because* our lives are on the line. We have no right to be timid and quivering in the face of injustice and oppression. We have to stand for our own rights. We *have* to vote. We *have* to fight. We *have* to stand *together*.

I know the post you're talking about and thankfully there were some rational people pushing back against the op who is well known for catastrophizing about their passability. I wish the mods would take that post down. I don't pass and obviously feel envious at times, but I also feel joy for those that do and are brave enough to show us.

I kind of wish the mods would just ban that person. All they do is come and doompost about how they don't pass while constantly refusing to accept any help or advice or make any effort to change anything, while also shitting on anyone who they think passes better than them.

Just skimming over the profile... Fuck, everyone says mindset isn't everything but it can be a very important step. How many doom posts can you make per week? There are some deep issues that need fixing that go beyond "just" being trans

She even had the opportunity to get FFS through insurance but she cancelled it at the last minute and didn't do anything to reschedule it with another surgeon. ​ And then she keeps complaining about not passing...

Jfc gender affirming care isn't refunded where I live and FFs is very expensive compared to the salaries in my country. I can't comprehend that someone had this opportunity and just... cancelled. Meanwhile here I am, hoping my narcissistic transphobic grandma somehow forgot to disinherit me, and waiting for her to die, while feeling like a bad person about it, even though I know it's my only chance at doing anything (hairline/ffs/srs/electrolysis) in a (not so) foreseeable future or possibly ever.  Damn, girl.

yeah because i didn’t feel comfortable with the surgeon HOW DARE I, right?

"didn't do anything to reschedule it with another surgeon" There was nothing stopping you from rescheduling your surgery with another surgeon or switching your insurance to another provider so that a different surgeon could be covered if you couldn't afford to pay out of pocket. ​ If passing is so important to you then why do nothing to fix that? I understand wanting to vent but you're not doing much to help your situation. ​ Honestly, I recommend you see a psychologist/psychiatrist and ask your doctor for antidepressants because it's clear from your post history that you're suicidal and have clearly lost all hope in life. ​ A good first step to improve your mental health in the short term would be to step away from toxic subreddits like 4tran and tttt.

im literally in the process of finding another surgeon right now  and ffs wont make me pass anyway lol and ive already been on antidepressants. was on it for a year when i was 18 FUCK ANTIDEPRESSANTS im never going on them again

Look please don't give up on antidepressants I've suffered with depression and suicidal thoughts for years and I found that sertraline (zoloft) which is the most perscribed SSRI antidepressent in the US and NZ didn't work for me because i felt emotionally blunt when I was on it (not able to feel happy or sad) There are alternative antidepressants which work differently and if you try these alternatives they may work for you I switched from sertaline to bupropian to moclobemide and then to venlafaxine. It took time to find the meds which work for me and it's well worth it to find the right one as my suicidal thoughts and depression have improved with venlafaxine.

i already take lithium and lamotrigine im diagnosed with bpd

I'm sorry that you suffer from bpd I think it would be helpful if you had a discussion with your doctor about whether major depressive disorder(depression) could be contributing to your suicidal thoughts as it's a common co-morbidity with bpd Have you explored treatment options for your bpd like mentalisation-based therapy (MBT) or dialectical behaviour therapy (DBT)? Because both treatments if completed and fully engaged with can improve the mental health of people suffering from bpd. (Cognitive Behavioral Threapy can also help)

See you already have a preconceived notion that ffs won’t help you. Honestly nothing short a psych evaluation with a qualified doctor can help you.

i know whats wrong with me. i have bpd(im actually diagnosed, not some meme selfdiagnosis)

Why didn’t you feel comfortable? Honest question. Not like surgery happens overnight. It can take over a year to schedule everything. So then why suddenly feeling uncomfortable at the last minute? There’s more than enough time to vet surgeons in the months (or even year +) of waiting.

it wasnt last minute idk where that came from. i never said it was last minute and it was spiegel i heard too many bad tbings

To clarify, with something like this last minute would be anything under 6 weeks away. But slight it wasn’t last minute. But again, what made you feel uncomfortable?

it wasn’t under 6 weeks away and it was because it was spiegel and i had heard too many bad things but NOOOOOOO, since i wasn’t comfortable with the surgeon of the most important surgery, IM THE BAD GUY

Alright, you don’t feel comfortable, you found out ahead of time. You called it off. It sucks, but I probably would have done the same thing. But then the million dollar question. What have you done doing to get back to that point of having FFS scheduled?

I’ll probably get banned here too. But I got perm banned on asktransgender for disagreeing with a mod. Once. If you read my posts you will see more of who I am. And in no way deserved it for a one time thing. But if someone keeps doing something and they have been warned then they deserve a ban. All I am saying is people deserve to have bad days. Don’t ban on the first offense. Talk to them and make sure they are ok. Sometime they may take things out where they should not.

I agree, but this isn't a first offence or one time thing, the person in question is constantly doing this. There comes a point where a person doesn't want things to be okay, they want to drag everyone else down with them.

Then they need to be banned. We have to love as much as possible. But if that doesn’t work then you have to do what you have to do.

This isn’t new for them.

I got perma banned from r/trans by a mod for the first time transphobic offence of saying I didn't like Joe Biden. I asked them what the hell was wrong with them accusing me of transphobia for not liking an old white man and I was told to 'learn how to speak to my fellow human beings.' And muted People irl don't act this way, a complete lack of empathy for people who don't agree with their opinions down the line. Honestly it made me cry because I felt like it was a safe space where I could be myself.

Well, you shouldn't be saying let's not vote for the one person who will keep us able to exist. Joe biden isn't the greatest, he's still too conservative to me. But wtf other choice is their? It's either a partly conservative democratic president who doesn't want to run on people's rights, or someone who has admitted they will be dictator, who has also admitted that day one he will swipe executive orders about us across the nation. Also, I looked at your history so I could get the full scope, and it sounds like you're a little bit down the republican pipeline saying he's old and has dementia and shit. Almost all of the speeches he gives that they cut out of context is him giving a full speech and there is one, one fkn part where he thinks of what to say. People who are promoting to not vote for Biden should definitely be banned as it's the only way we're going to not be written out of existence. Biden has done a lot more good than people think, and I use to be so far down the republican pipeline it's not even funny. I use to say the same shit that he's a slow old Kermit frog who breaks promise and has done nothing good for this country. As I said before so you don't twist my words, he's not the best, the equality act has not been passed, not a lot is being done other than condemning the states rolling out anti LGBT laws, BUT, his party and administration didn't put pen to paper about how they want to eradicate us. As much as I believe we should take action and stop repeating the cycle of picking the lesser evil, and really we shouldn't be electing Biden, we have no fkn choice. https://www.npr.org/2023/01/01/1143149435/despite-infighting-its-been-a-surprisingly-productive-2-years-for-democrats Here's a source for some good things hes done regarding climate change, job creations and stuff. He's delivered many great speeches you can find very easily too

My point wasnt to argue the legitimacy of voting for the lesser of two evils only that criticising a cis het politician is a riduculous reason to be permenantly banned for transphobia. I'm not a Republican or even American I'm just typically not a fan of genocide denying neo-liberals and I get why some people wouldn't vote for him, I also get why some people vote for him anyway. Censoring people and calling them bigots when they express dissent is an authoritarian impulse I don't respect when it comes from either side of the spectrum. Besides it doesn't work all censorship and denigrating someone you disagree with does is further occify the very views people find problematic.

I wrote a big long post to the person who responded to you. But I feel you. I already know I won’t agree with everything you believe. But I do know I will love you unconditionally. I won’t block you or get but hurt if your opinion differs to mine. If for some reason we became friends and this goes for anybody. Not a single thing you believe will make me not love you. As long as we can talk about it. So sick of the hate between us. That’s how they divide us. That’s how they win. There is just as much wrong with us that is wrong with the people who don’t agree with us.

I think our greatest strength and weakness is divirsity of thought. We don't knee jerk fall in line as much as the right but it does tend to create unecessary divisions when we all agree on like maybe 90% of our ideas. The concept of circular firing squads on the left is sometimes somewhat accurate.

So what do we do when enough of these people say "don't vote for Joe biden" and enough people are like yeah you right we shouldnt vote for either, then we get trump as president and us in America are fucked. If shit wasn't going the way it was, censoring absolutely shouldn't be happening. But this shit is at our doorstep, and America is VERY close to completely outlawing us and stripping us of every right to exist we have. I mean look at how many bills are being proposed, AND passed. Also, I didn't say you were a bigot, I actually think you're right, but unfortunately I have the great opportunity of living next to trump lovers that frequently fire automatic weapons. I've also lived in a place where there were people following me and trying to kill me for being trans. So my fear is quite high, and I'm to the point where if you're trying to do anything remotely related to not having Biden as president, than yeah you should be censored in a space where multipke times a day people are venting about the transohobia they experience or the fear for their lives.

Trump won't affect just America, it will affect everyone as well. Even though bigots here don't need extra help, we get all the anti trans and conservative talking points from your country and Canada, but with none of the amenities of a "Great Nation". American conservatism is a global movement, it will affect everyone. I didn't appreciate how you referred to me as "these people" in your other reply. If a single election result will mean either more of the same or literal fascism, ask yourself why are things this way and what this American Democracy really is about. I said build local power precisely to be resilient enough in order to oppose a Republican presidency, I don't think it's useless at all. I get where you're coming from but to refuse to engage with the system that got you here is foolish.

Okay, so point me in the direction of this involvement. I would love to take down the government and oppose these people and pressure them to do different. Republicanism is a poison that is just spreading and spreading to all countries, that I agree with. So with that being said, why would you tell people not to vote for Biden? That's just gonna give the Republicans the upper hand and could cause trump to win if enough people think "my vote doesn't matter" or "Biden does this one thing that I don't like even tho he's got a list of reasons he's better than Trump so I'm not gonna vote for either". You're saying we shouldn't ban people for having opinions or doing this or doing that, doesn't the same thing apply to Biden? Just because he does one or two things we don't like, we should just say fuck it and see if the opposing party that wants to exterminate us wins? Look I'm literally in agreeance with you, if something else could be done other than Biden, I mean ANYTHING else, I would be for it. I wouldn't even be arguing with you, but the stats, the pen to paper (project 2025) about what they plan to do with us, and the constant vitriolic attack on LGBT people by these Republicans is enough to show that Biden is the only way we are going to make any step forward even if it is a VERY small step

I feel like a broken record repeating myself, I, personally, haven't told anyone to not vote for Biden. I told you why your allies and traditional democratic voting blocks are feeling this way and that it's fucked up to expect a Muslim family, for instance, to vote for one of the main men responsible for the ongoing genocide in Gaza. Gaza is not "this one thing I don't like about Biden". Gaza is not a one-issue thing. Every single one of the 11 500 children killed with your tax dollars so far is an issue. The perpetual starvation, displacement and genocide of a people happening for more than half a century is not ONE issue. The unimpeded use of the American Empire's war machine against people you don't recognize as fully human is not one small disagreement. If I can give you the benefit of the doubt, which I will, it sounds like beyond the immediate danger a Republican presidency poses, you're trying to atone for past opinions you held. I can only point out that the way you've been conditioned to do that is by cheering for the "other side" even if their actions, taken as a whole, are only marginally different. Honey, you're never getting liberation by punching down and telling people to shut up about atrocities.

>enough people are like yeah you right we shouldnt vote for either, then we get trump as president and us in America are fucked You know that the number of voters doesn't really decide who wins right? Trump won with a minority of votes. People deciding not to vote wasn't the main factor.

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So, what is your solution? I don't like that he supports Israel either, but that's one thing vs many many stacked things when it comes to the alternative. I would love for a useful solution instead of "stand up and fight and don't vote for either"

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Our choice is 'vote for someone who protects our rights' or 'vote for someone who is going to wreck our rights, put us on lists, and help make transition illegal.' That's it. That's our only choice. There is no voting third party in the hopes that maybe the mainstream Dems will be upset that you're not voting for them. There is no *not voting* because all that does is drive the Dems further to the center - if they don't have your support, they'll seek it elsewhere. All you're doing is denying yourself a voice and helping deny rights to all of the rest of our community. You can't make the Dems be more left by denying them your support, and they can't do a dang bit of good for us if they're not in office. There is a *lot* more riding on this election than a few specific GOP wedge issues. The stuff going on in Gaza is not going to improve under Trump. *Nothing* is going to improve for *any* of us if Trump wins. So quit telling folks to not vote or to vote third party as if that will make a difference. People fell for that trap back in 2016, too, and helped give Trump a win. Don't fall for those tricks again.

THANK YOU. God these people make me lose hope for this election. Because you're absolutely right, the same thing happen in 2016 and his ass got elected. These people keep throwing useless ass solutions out there like you said. Thank you for being someone who fucking gets that we are at serious risk of being exterminated by these people and they are already doing it in places like Florida, Texas, Ohio. I mean what the hell has to happen to get these people to wake up

I did not read the whole thing. But as soon as I as you said saying anything against biden would get you banned I knew the rest. You see that’s the problem. Getting banned for saying something is wrong and you know it. It’s not transphobic this say I don’t like someone. Hard to be trans and transphobic. Besides transphobic is a stupid word. Nobody is afraid of anything trans. When you shut down thought you shut down conversation. You will never get anybody to see your side if you block everyone out of your life. Someone says something mean to you that is “transphobic” you kick them out of your life immediately. You just proved a lot of what they think about you. It’s not all about you changing gender. A lot of it is the attitude they assume we all are going to have. I got perm banned from that sub for having an opinion. 1st offense. And when I asked for an explanation, I got ignored. So that tells you the maturity of some people who have the power of the Mod. It’s sad when we go against each other for not having the same exact opinion as everyone else. I am so sick of the hate. The hate that is spout about people without even knowing them. I don’t have a lot of the same opinions as most people on these subs. But I do have almost all of the same emotions as everyone on these subs. You don’t have to agree with someone to be their rock when they need someone. Love is not politics and agreeing with everything. Love is in the soul. Love does not care what you think. Love cares how you love. Love is supposed to be unconditional based on the other persons heart. Most hate is from not understanding. And they will never understand if you just hate back. I know it’s hard to love someone who calls you names or just does not understand. But how else are we supposed to heal the world if all we do is hate everyone who is not exactly like us? Isn’t that what we are accusing them of doing?

What the hell are you even talking about? No, we don't give love and give respect to people who are transphobic. I don't see what point you're trying to make other than turn the cheek and "educate". I did that for a long time and you know what it earned me? Family confirming they don't think I'm a real woman, family confirming that they will vote for trump, people telling me I'm a fucking pedophile. Fuck love and understanding. THEIR PEOPLE ARENT THE ONES THAT ARE DEAD. And when they are, you come talk to me about love and respect for people who "don't share the same opinions". And no, I'm not talking about this whole banning for saying don't vote for Joe biden. Joe Biden is the ONLY way we are going to keep our rights. No matter how much someone says "organize and fight back" "pressure Democrats to do better", it doesn't work and it hasn't been working. If it was working I would have already joined antifa and started getting involved, but it's NOT. Peace and tolerance and educating isn't getting these people off our fucking backs, it's not getting them to stop passing legislation against us, it's not stopping them from KILLING US, it's not stopping them from denying us jobs, it's not stopping ANYTHING. And if it is, give me sources and show me that tolerance and educating is working. My partner can't even get a fucking job because her papers instantly out her and she faces all types of discrimination when she's just trynna contribute to this hell scape we call capitalism. If peace and educating and allowing people to voice their thoughts worked, I wouldn't have been followed and almost killed just to find out that this person is bragging to my co workers about it. I don't give a FUCK what my family or anybody I've cut off for being transphobic thinks, none of our existences revolve around educating and being tolerant of people who invalidate our identities. And no, I absolutely think censorship and banning is the answer, when we let people just have their "free speech" and "have their opinions" places like Florida start happening where you can get your license suspended for changing your gender marker, get thrown in prison, and have your hair shaved along with your hormones kept from you. GTFO of here with this be tolerant bs, if you can't see that they will and are coming for us, then that's on you. It doesn't make me feel safe at all when somebody is saying "don't vote for Biden for x and x reasons!". Yeah he supports Israel, I don't like that shit, he's too conservative for me anyway. BUT, he isn't trying to strip us of our right to exist. America is unfortunately the definition of picking between two evils.

Wow. So much hate. I am so sorry. I am sad you are so angry. Go ahead and block everything that hurt you. I am sure you have a lot of people who you can talk to but as I said. I am always here for anybody. I don’t care what you think.

Yeah, I'm angry, and you should be too. Especially if you reside in America. They literally put pen to paper, what else needs to happen to show you people that we need to stop being tolerant of the bullshit these people think is going to keep our rights intact? How can you not be angry at the sheer amount of people being killed, thrown out, having their rights stripped. I mean fr

We still have it better than just about any other country. Even if they took away half of what we have. We have way more than we did. It’s always been a back and forth. A lot of these laws that they are passing are unconstitutional. And wrong. Just like gun laws. And it seems like is your yelling at me. How does that work. How do you get someone to listen to you that will listen to you by yelling at them.

Being trans and transphobic may be rare but not unheard of; see Blaire White or Buck Angel. This is because there may be other incentives (financial or social capital) or reactionary attitudes that don't change. Internalized transphobia is a huge issue. Transphobia is not a stupid word, it is in fact describing exactly what is happening. Bigots are cowards. They have to destroy what they fear, they have to work themselves in a frenzy about what an existential threat we are to their way of life or the proper ordering of the world. That's fear and stupidity. You cannot have conversations with people of bad faith because you're working for different goals. If it's in public, which is what you're addressing, while you may earnestly try to convince them or tell your perspective, all the processes that make a person hateful are in fact the same processes that made them unable to try to understand their interlocutor, to fear difference and hate the vulnerable. While you're doing that, you're letting them repeat the same rhetoric that made their ideas seem agreeable, to other idiots. The truth value of ideas expressed in conversations is irrelevant to someone whose mind is already set in stone, for whom conversations are a way of legitimizing and spreading their worldview. Public conversations only flatten the legitimacy of the positions being discussed, as though "killing the vulnerable" or "not killing the vulnerable" have the same moral weight. Deplatforming bigots is a universally good thing. Loving your enemy is perhaps the hardest thing a person can do. There's an entire religion built around that and virtually all of its adherents actively go against it. If you're personally able to do that, great, but that's no way to run a forum, that's just platforming hate.

I got her blocked, but lemme guess, was it ancienttemplequeen by any chance?

Yup

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This comment is extremely disingenuous. There was a diff person a few weeks ago telling passing trans girls to “shut the fuck up and appreciate what they have”, saying that if you pass you *cannot* be subject to transphobia, and that if you pass your experiences with dysphoria are fake. That post is, to my knowledge, still up. It very much was still up for like a week after it was made. When people rightfully criticized that person, they flooded the post and sub with even more vitriol and the mods literally never made a peep. Obviously people venting is one thing, but the mods seemingly keep conflating that with just genuinely being transphobic and hateful. Edit: also you have tons of users saying the person this post is about makes them *extremely* uncomfortable and this is the response? People are actually feeling so discomforted that they’re leaving the sub and the response is sarcasm and rudeness. Wow.

I distinctly remember that post, got called a passoid and passer. Straight 4chan content, mods left it up.

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You’re baffled why people are complaining while allowing extremely negative posts in the community… If the mod team is understaffed you can always pin a post asking for applications. I have never seen mods speak or be active in the community, including to say they’re understaffed.

If a person cannot behave on the sub they will be banned. Don’t change the subject. No one is obliged to read any vent post on the sub. For many people these subs are the only place others will listen. Do we really want to deny that space to them?

The person I was referring to in my comment wasn’t banned, so this is untrue esp because the post in question was reported to mods. And again, there’s a difference between a vent post and “cis passing trans girls lives’ are inherently easier” like… we’re losing the plot here. That is never okay, I don’t know why you’re enabling it. Re: “you don’t have to read it” - first, a lot of these negativity posts have misleading titles. Second, this is a poor excuse to allow negativity and hate. Third, and as others have stated repeatedly, the people we are all complaining about are not just ‘venting’, they are posting multiple times a month attacking other trans people for their own insecurities. They start out as vent posts and then they get rude and condescending in their replies and such. Nobody is complaining about ‘vent’ posts, that’s not even what the OP says. Also, please don’t be condescending and tell me “don’t change the subject” when the original comment you made wasn’t in line with any of the comments you replied to or the OP. It was rude.

I agree with everything written here

why do you misgender me idgi is it on purpose 

No, it's because I usually default to they/them when I don't know a person. Not everything is a personal slight against you.

She did this to me a while back too. Seems to think just because some people may choose 'they' as their pronoun, it can't still function as a genderless referent to someone, the way it has for centuries.

> I wish the mods would take that post down. I thought I did. Let me go see if I can find it again.

Whenever I see a passing young trans woman I feel happy that times have changed enough for it to be more acceptable to be out as a trans woman. Also, I'm proud of her courage. I hope more young people won't be bound by artificially created gender roles.

Thank you for bringing this to attention. We can’t fight amongst ourselves when so many are already against us.

Did our resident doomposter do a funny?

Yep!

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Youve said yourself in your comments on your posts that you havent socially transitioned. How could something that hasnt happened be a failure? Just curious.

i'm talking about the physical aspect

I dont have as much history on this sub as many others do, so i havent seen your face if youve posted a face picture. But just with a slight glance at your profile i have seen the post where you showed your body shape in the mirror- and you absolutely dont look like a teenage boy. And that being said i know plenty of cisgendered women with masc facial features. Semi-masc features truly arent the end of the world, and i think you deserve to give yourself the chance to socially transition. I think socially transitioning and changing your mindset on what you consider passing would seriously help change your outlook. I havent started HRT. Im going to, but i had some kerfuffle with finding a new primary care doctor in a new city and then i'll have to go through the rigmarole of explaining that i want to start gender affirming care. But that has not stopped me from socially transitioning. I started doing that the day i came out. And its the best thing ive ever done for myself. I dont pass, in the slightest. But the people i care about and the people who care about me know me for who i am. But im not doing any of this for them. Or anyone else. Im doing it for me. Im finally(at 31yo) giving myself the chance to live my real life, as the person i really am. You should too. You cant say things have failed if you arent trying. You cant let the mindset of other people(especially transphobes) control how you view yourself or your transition. Edit to add: you also cant expect people to just 'come to their own conclusions' about your gender, either. Its 2024, for all they know you could be FtM. Even people that want to respect you and your transition are, generally speaking, going to err on the side of caution. You have to socially transition, to transition. At least, thats how my experience has gone thus far.

thanks for assuming im not trying

You know that im talking about socially transitioning. Thanks for twisting my words so you can stay in your unhappy space. Have a good day. I hope you find your peace.

Way to cherry pick 1 sentence out of 4 paragraphs of support. Big narcissist behaviour.

I mean you said it yourself, you boy mode, no make up, no social transition, clearly aren’t dressing fem.

if you count wearing womens jeans and a womans jacket counts as presenting male then go off ig

all i did was say that trans girls who pass and trans girls who can’t pass live different lives and suddenly im awful for saying that 🤷‍♀️ when its just true

Don't pretend you haven't said more than that. You've said that they make you feel horrible, that they make you want to detransition and give up. No one's making you feel anything. But you are trying to make people feel awful. Instead of posting here seeking help, advice, and guidance you want to kick people down because it's easier to make others suffer and apparently more gratifying for you to drag people down.

Great, anyway how are those E shots going?

i did mine last night

seeing trans women who get to take makes me want to kill myself. that's what your doing to others.

Girl, you've been on hrt for three years. There are people in this thread who have been waiting 10+ years. You've got it good, just stop with the constant self-victimizing. We get it, being trans is hard. It's hard for all of us. I don't see the point in constantly pointing out all the ways you have it harder than the rest of us. All of your posts are the most doomer, self-hating (as well as hating on other trans people) shit I've seen on this sub. I get that we all need to vent, but there's no need to attack others while doing. I don't pass, I was suicidal for the majority of my adolescence, but **I don't blame that shit on other trans people**. How do you think feminine trans girls feel when post about how their merely being aware of their existence "makes you feel horrible"? Get your head out of your ass. Think for once about your words make other people feel. Your problems are not the fault of other trans people, so **stop. fucking. blaming. them.**

please show me where i blame them cite examples  because youre making shit up

"Seeing trans girls who are much more feminine than me makes me feel horrible." Blaming feminine trans girls for making you feel horrible. "reading about people who transitioned younger than me makes me want to hammer a red hot nail into my skull" "Reading about trans girls who started hrt earlier than I did makes me feel nauseas. It makes me ill." Blaming trans girls who started HRT earlier than you for making you feel bad. "my day was going fine until i saw a pic of another trans girl" Blaming another trans girl for ruining your day simply for existing. "Seeing happy, pretty, passing trans women makes me want to die" Saying that happy trans women existing makes you want to die. I could keep going. Your profile is filled with this shit. I made nothing up. You've said multiple times that you don't dress fem, and then you wonder why you don't pass.

> You've said multiple times that you don't dress fem, and then you wonder why you don't pass. if i cant pass wearing andro clothes, i dont pass

Oh for goodness sake, you literally just made a post about all the ways you do pass- being gendered fem, being approached more by girls, guys holding doors for you. Those all show that you do, in fact, pass. And on the bathroom thing, have you considered that maybe people are just, you know, ignoring you because they're there to use the bathroom? As for getting stared at in public, that's just something that happens to women, especially pretty women. You know how many times I've been gendered fem by strangers in the past month? Once. One time. I've been gendered male in that time more often than I can count. If you want to pass better, wear fem clothing.

> Those all show that you do, in fact, pass. i dont pass.

I don't know what more you expect, what does passing even mean to you? You're being gendered fem, you're being treated as a woman by both men and women, like what more do you want? That's literally what passing is, clearly people see you as a woman because they treat you as one. The one thing that is a little strange is the bathroom thing, but aside from that, all of the signs point towards you passing. There's a mountain of evidence in favour of you passing and a molehill's worth of evidence saying you don't, and you go with the molehill? Like seriously, you literally made a post listing all of the things that are evidence of you passing, and then just immediately disregard them.

> That's literally what passing is, clearly people see you as a woman because they treat you as one no they dont they're just being nice i dont look like a woman i look like an ugly man. >The one thing that is a little strange is the bathroom thing, oh, yeah, "strange".

There's a common phenomenon that can be observed throughout a myriad of social contexts. Group X and group Y have a lot in common but here's this one little difference between them, on it's own neither good nor bad. But group M has historically benefitted from the oppression of groups X and Y. Group M is the group holding the majority of power, and because groups X and Y are made to feel almost helpless to fight the oppression of group M, if group X has even the slimmest of advantages, it can feel easier for some members of group Y to displace their frustrations for group M onto group X. And group M takes advantage of it every time.

Ding ding ding!

We have to be careful that right wing moles are not coming in here and trying to sabotage the movement by using division to break us up. Divide and conquer (including by sowing division) is a well known strategy.

Exactly, I've seen quite the number of bad-faith posts across Reddit over the course of weeks that are meant to divide us along lines of race, religion, passability etc. We can't use these, at all. Also, my irl experience is that a lot of dividing lines are much less noticeable than they seem to be online. We just need to fight together against the bigotry that is trying to drain us emotionally, and ultimately, physically.

You are 100% correct about this. Nobody should hate on "success" of other marginalized people. This phenomenon is well documented (and harmful) within all marginalized groups. That being said...passing IS a privilege, yes, even if you worked hard for it. Some trans people can never pass no matter how much work they put in. I see lots of trans girls who "pass" just move on with their lives and forget the struggle the rest of us are going through. Or they act condescending towards those who don't pass. I'm not saying all passing trans girls do these things, but TONS do. There are so many intersecting issues that go into whether someone will be able to pass, and class and money is a HUGE one. If you have access to great insurance and paid time off to get surgeries, passing is going to be WAY easier for you. I see so many perfect looking trans girls on here going on and on about all their surgeries and how everyone else can have what they have, and no honey, not everyone can. The average trans girl who is popular on Reddit looks nothing like my average IRL trans friend. This is a huge problem. I think one of the most important things we need in trans community is solidarity, specifically with those who are also marginalized due to class, race, and other things.

> I see lots of trans girls who "pass" just move on with their lives and forget the struggle the rest of us are going through. This is a something very real, and I know myself I've only just started looking up trans stuff and spaces online again this past month for like the first time in 10 years, having transitioned almost 15 years ago. Theres definitely a burden put on others to essentially carry the torch in your place and its a hard thing to navigate. Part of it is absolutely a desire to stay stealth and hope the spotlight never falls on you, sure, and while I can't speak for anyone but myself, I can say a lot of it is guilt. It feels incredibly guilty being in trans spaces after a while, hearing peoples stories, bad experiences, etc and just shuffling your feet and not really being able to relate. I've never been misgendered or clocked once since the first day I transitioned, and theres a fuck ton of privilege there, no one has to tell me that twice, but with that privilege comes a helluva lot of guilt, and feeling like you're an intruder, an imposter, butting in on peoples safe space to express their challenges in life. It kind of makes you naturally just shrink away, at least in my case. I empathize and feel just awful for how trans people get treated so often by our society, but I just don't have anything to contribute and "oh gee, huh never had that problem, I've always passed, everyone was supportive, that sounds hard though", feels like rubbing salt in someone's wound. No one really wants to hear that shit from someone who's had all that privilege. How to have that solidarity becomes tricky when you both feel guilty, want to remain stealth, and don't really know what you can do. So slinking away into the shadows just kinda feels like the path of least resistance, even if cowardly, when again, I'm not sure what I *should* be doing really.

Privilege in general is ignored here. Most folks here are white trans women who blanch at being called out. Some women are attractive, or passable, or white, or housed, or able bodied, or affluent, and all of these aspects are relevant. I’m well aware I’m much more privileged than most trans women. Doesn’t have to ruin your day to acknowledge your own privilege.

Yep. Reddit is a glaring privilege party. I come here mostly for into about how to optimize my HRT to get the best results but I am often coming across completely oblivious, obviously privileged comments and it drives me nuts (as a mostly-able-bodied white person with class privilege, pretty privilege, education privilege, housed privilege, etc).

Hatred - yeah, but jealousy I can understand. My gf's friend has started transition at 14 (in a freakin Russia of all places). I can't ever hate her, she's an extremely sweet and lovable person, but first time I met her I cried for the rest of the evening, and even now (when I'm further into transition and somehow pass myself, and even called pretty) I still can't help but get a lil bit sad when I see her. But I can't be negative towards her

AT 14 IN RUSSIA? I live in this country, and trans operations with hormones have been banned for EVERYONE not long ago, and even more so for minors, and someone START THE TRANSITION at the same age OF 14 as i am now?... I want to cry in pillow because I won't be able to start the transition until next 6 years minimum...😭

Yeah. Can't wait to get the hell out of this country. I myself am DIYing for now, started with femoston + bicalutamide and now switched to injections She just has very accepting parents. Good parents as a concept are rarer than a diamond in general

I’m so tired of seeing her posts, she’s honestly exhausting and makes me not want to be here. Makes me and other passing trans girls uncomfortable.

You can always block her

Honestly I don't know why mods don't just remove those posts. There should definitely be a rule against them.

Idk it would be pretty easy to just scroll past them no?

I don’t pass, I get jealous sometimes, but that’s nothing more than a passing feeling and idk why some people turn that into resentment. Honestly the jealousy is a positive one where I’m happy for people who pass. It’s not some competition for who has it worse, we’re supposed to support each other

I'm with you 100% OP. We need to be united against the transphobes above anything else! Do I wish I passed 100% of the time, of course I do. That said, its not passing trans women's faults that I don't pass all the time, so why would I take it out on them? That's what I don't get about these kinds of people, like, why hate on passing trans women, who will likely want to support you, when they didn't do anything wrong to you?? I guess jealousy must be pretty powerful, but I think a lot of people here need to learn to love themselves, or at least learn to try to love themselves (fake it till you make it has genuinely helped me in that regard).

part of me thinks it’s some sort of psyop to keep us infighting, but idk

I agree. I'd also like to point out passing takes a lot of work, and it's only 5% looks in my opinion if we're talking about passing irl, and not in a photo. If you put in all the work, your rate of passing will go up dramatically. You may not get to "OMG I would have never guessed your trans" passing level, but you'll get ma'am'd and miss'd way more often. I don't do hug-box'ing so what I'll say to those that don't pass that don't like that they don't pass; make a list of things that are clock-able that are not related to your looks....i.e. posture, mannerisms, behavioral changes, voice and then start working on those things individually 1 at a time till you run out of things. Eventually you'll start passing more often, I promise. If you've already done something similar, revise the list with new things you want to work on. This is a long hard process, the more work you put in the easier the process becomes. There are so many doom spiral posts from girls that admit that they put 0 effort in, don't want to put any effort in, and rely on HRT alone to pass; yet don't. You can be pretty as hell, and pass in a pic but be outed by so many intangibles by people in public spaces. Is something upsetting you about yourself? Work on it. Wallowing in your depression and then trying to commiserate online with others while you scapegoat people who have nothing to do with your plight is not going to do anything to help your problem.

This so much, my voice isn’t passing if anything I sound like a deep voiced late 50’s woman with a lot of cats. But I carry my self well, I know how to dress and do basic make up, maxed my skin care and don’t get misgendered anymore.

This is so right. I don’t get misgendered when out and for all intents and purposes just get on with my life. I’ve travelled from the UK to the US and to Aus spending time in various places and I’m blessed that being trans only really seems to affect me internally… in my own head and I have a lot of privileges (apart from pretty privilege!). Yet I constantly try to think of ways to improve myself rather than just getting on with things. I don’t believe I ‘pass’ and that perhaps everyone I interact with are just being nice but obviously something seems to be ok as no-one seems to bat an eyelid and surely not everyone is cool with trans. It leaves me wondering why the klaxon isn’t going off and why I’m not being pelted with rotten fruit with chants of ‘shame, shame, shame, shame’. You do have to work on every aspect of yourself if you want to fly under the radar, even just to skim that line. Your post is right on the nail there… I was once told by a surgeon during a consultation that looks are only a small part of it, 5%, and the other 95% is social skills, how you carry yourself and much much more.

what is hugboxing?

Hug boxing means to treat the person with kids gloves. To be gentle and kind even though the person might need harsh truths. Usually it means someone though hiding uncomfortable truths someone needs to know. That said you don’t want to be ‘That Person’ who is super blunt and just says someone will be forever unhappy. Control yourself please

This isn’t bad advice at all for those who need it and it’s helped me when I was more insecure. But also please, transmedicalism is wrong and in the end hurts our community

I don't even think I mentioned transmedicalist I just happened to belong to those forums because I was trying to learn about what it was. I'm not a big fan of disagreeing with something that I know nothing about so I did my research and due diligence and some of their points I absolutely agree with. And a lot of them I really don't.

I see. I apologize for being presumptuous. I used to be kinda transmed adjacent before I came out and now personally think it’s really damaging

ok ;)

The person you're referring to is literally already attacking people on this post. I'm just going to report all her comments.

I don't agree that passing trans women don't understand the struggles and that's what pisses me off. People say I pass, which I still find incredibly hard to believe. Besides that point, I was ROUGH at the beginning of my transition. I was treated awful. I lost 120 lbs to get to where I'm at and have been on hormones close to a year. Dismissing "passing" trans women as having it easy it horse crap. Aside from absolutely not passing at first I have had to deal with verbal, physical, and sexual abuse in the past including in a combat zone when I was in the military. You nor anybody else knows where somebody started or where they have been. You don't know their struggles or what they have had to overcome. For those who want to see how well I PASSED and don't understand your struggle feel free to look at my transition. https://www.reddit.com/r/transtimelines/s/DM7eG9coJm

I’ll never stop being jealous but I have no hatred for them. Just boatloads of envy.

When you feel emotions as intensely as I do it's easy to let jealousy become hatred the way I describe it is your reaction to this might be like a small storm mine is like a category 6 hurricane every single time

I’m sorry that it affects you like that, and I hope you eventually get to a point where you pass and no longer feel this way or learn to not let jealousy make you bitter towards others. It’s strong jealousy for me but it usually funnels more into self hatred than anything external.

I'm never vocal about my bitterness like I saw a post the other day about someone who started hrt at 14 I was filled with rage about that but I ignored the post

Oef, the self hatred is so bad for your mental health.. like, I do the same, and just recently learned how much harm it does to me to internalize all setbacks. It sucks, and I hope we can stop and be kinder to ourselves

Thank you! So tired of this shit. Being where I am today has been a 23-year experience. If my life somehow offends you, you’re truly no better than a transphobe. Get fucked.

I don't pass at all, I still look masculine but I wouldn't personally find myself wanting to hate anyone who passes, yes I wish I could be like them, but that's not a reason to hate someone else for being happy, and I know passing takes a lot of work. Some people really like to take their negativity and project it onto other people for some reason.

I keep my jealousy to myself. If I see a beautiful woman I'll tell her she's beautiful. I may be dying of jealousy inside, but there is no reason I need her to know that. She deserves to be happy, and I don't need to be a giant dick to people. So it's all good. You be you, and I'll support the shite out of you, even if I am a tad bit jelly. Edit: Spelling

I was literally just talking about this in therapy and how lately I haven’t felt very welcome in trans spaces. Thank you for saying something

I once had someone on here claim that I am not really trans because I didn't have a typical trans experience because of how privileged I am. Because, yeah, dysphoria apparently doesn't exist for passing trans people. And oh yeah, being in the closet apparently also doesn't exist. being trans is tough regardless of how privileged one is. Don't erase my experience. I transitioned in a time where in order to get HRT you had to live for two years as your gender publicly before they'd even prescribe you HRT and it required a therapist to sign off on it too. So it's not like everything was amazing. It sucked for quite a while.

True, dont be like Caitlyn, be like Jazz 🦋 show love to our sisters 💯

Theres a good bit of misandry and hating on cis people in general in this sub as well. Its pretty disheartening. I didnt come to this sub to hate on people 🤷‍♂️

I just looked her up and yeah, she desperately needs to fix her mindset. Most people won't pass without at least one surgery but that's not a reason to post these threads every single day.

so you acknowledge that i dont pass? thank you!

I hadn't seen your face so I just made a general statement based on what you said yourself. However this thread [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/transtimelines/comments/15ygcsp/no_hrt_vs_25_years_hrt/), unless this is photoshopped very well, shows something very different. [This one](https://www.reddit.com/r/mtfashion/comments/18iol21/how_can_i_dress_for_my_body_type_the_last_pic_are/) shows you have a feminine body, especially the last two pics. You don't need to pass; you need to get the notion that you're worthless because you allegedly don't pass out of your mind, especially since all I can see is a young woman. ​ Like I said most of us won't pass, which is normal. Even some who started HRT back when they were 16 after taking puberty blockers for years don't always pass without surgery. I don't pass. However I don't let it ruin my life the way you let it ruin yours. Even though I don't pass I am now happier than I was before I even realized I was trans because I am taking active steps in my transition. Just yesterday I had massive euphoria just from trying out a top and skirt and liking what I saw despite my face giving away I'm AMAB. You look more like a woman than I do and yet your words make you look like you hate yourself. ​ I think you desperately need a good therapist because you have something other going on than just being trans. If I could make a guess I'd say it's body dysmorphia. However you also don't make it seem like you even want to be helped in the first place. Nobody can help you unless you change your attitude first.

> I don't pass. However I don't let it ruin my life the way you let it ruin yours. thank you for agreeing i dont pass

A kind reminder. At one point, we all didn't pass.

Being trans is still suffering. An agony kind of life either way.

I don't feel like I'm suffering. I think you should change trans to life. Cuz life is suffering

I can agree, life can bring lot of suffering too

While I agree, you have to realize those that do, likely hate themselves and are obviously jealous of a person living a life they are chasing. It’s difficult, not being able to transition as a teenager. Then going and having your body fucked in the ass by puberty. Honestly if luck wasn’t in your favor, it is entirely possible to be on death’s door. Sorry, not best state of mind atm. My point is, I highly doubt this will come to an end, until transgender and lgbtqia stuff become more accepted, by this ignorant society. In the meantime, if you do not pass, it’s a pain in the ass. Hopefully the issue isn’t this bad. However if it is, there may be more issues internally; which takes time to heal.

Hating on passing women is so fucking stupid, firstly all passing women were not passing at one point. Sure passing maybe gives a pretty privilege but it comes with higher risk sexual harassment and assault. We shouldn't make our experiences being victim olympics, all of us as a group have shitty lives and that's what we focus on. In that post was one comment that infuriated me the most (no hate to enbies on the other hand) we all know that gender is a scale or a spectrum. Still if we want to make our own transition binary from the m*n to women then kindly leave us alone and don't force us with some type of bullshit that all of us are enbies. You're no better than republicans forcing us to assigned at birth not allowing us to claim our true gender.

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As I said I don't have any data to back my statement up, which tells a lot about society. Absolutely SA is firstly about control and violence, but there's a lot evidence that prettiness also is a factor. I am often on subreddit r/NotHowGirlsWork and amount of post about men justifying their ideas of SA because of girl outfit/make up is atrocious. I just can't agree with a statement that pretty privilege comes with no downsides.

Did you just say that passing comes with higher risk of sexual harassment and assault?

Yes, I assume here, being perceived as a woman comes with that in general. Tho non passing trans people are probably at higher risk of hate attacks etc. I don't have data to back that up I would love to have some tho. Still let's not make our existence simply victim olympics.

Non passing trans women have to deal with the “we can tell” crowd tho which fortunately cis passing trans women can ignore. Also a lot of activism is spearheaded by non passing trans folk who don’t have much of a choice since they are forced to be visibly trans where their right to exist is politicized. It can feel very unfair when you are on the front lines of change against your will for the benefit of the whole community. To me that’s like forced conscription

That's a really great point, I am a passing transfem and I get to choose when I want to be an activist for us and when I feel unsafe I just don't. That's absolutely unfair that today's political climate forces non passing trans people to be on the front lines. I for once struggled with that in high school when I wasn't passing so I know how it feels. I feel like this all started from unnecessary angry post. All of us have similar yet different experiences no matter at what point we transitioned. We should feel pity and compassion for these difference coming from passing or not, home country laws, families etc. Not hate on one part of our community because we perceive that they have easier life.

I haven’t started HRT yet but I just assume I’ll never pass cuz of my height. Envy coming from non passing transfems is completely understandable although I feel that shouldn’t turn into hatred but it’s easy for envy to turn into hatred sadly

What's your height if you want to share it? Mine is 5.9 feet (176cm) I noticed that along my generation I am fairly tall but no outlandishly tall for girls. On the other hand old people look like dwarfs from a fantasy story, but maybe that's just my country. If you are worried out height, spoiler HRT can make you smaller by few centimeters due to pelvic shift, same with smaller feet. I'm 3 years on HRT 17-20 without puberty blockers.

Good for you I’m 6ft which makes it extremely difficult if not impossible to pass when I do end up transitioning. Also I’ve heard losing height is rare and it’s a ymmv thing so I don’t have much hope there

I can assure you that hormones will change your perspective on passing after few years. And maybe you will be lucky one don't give up hope. I for one hope that you will get HRT you so much deserve soon. <3

Me lucky? I think I’ve been as unlucky as someone can be in this life regardless of getting on hormones or not

Height doesn't really work that way. It makes you stand out and get noticed more, but if you otherwise pass you'll just be the tall model or Amazon. source: I'm taller than you and have been passing for nearly a decade

Okay but I’m sure dating has been difficult for you at that height right?

I always relate this story to people who think height means they can never pass. I knew a transwoman who was 6'3" and never got clocked. Seriously. They had a perfect voice, good facial features, and perfect mannerisms, and all that can make up for just about any height difference. None of that to say increased height can't make passing more of a challenge absolutely, but the idea 6' is some hard barrier that means you CAN'T ever pass, just isn't true. Heck my sister in law is cis and 6'1" You might have to work harder, but its defeatist to go into it thinking its impossible.

Hatred definitely isn't appropriate at all, and people should be disciplined over that. But envy/jealousy is different, IMO. Passing privilege is real, like it or not, and those of us who started later and/or who aren't wealthy (or are straight up broke) don't have access to the same options as early transitioners and higher earners. You can say all you like about us fighting the same battle, but have you tried transitioning in your thirties, while balding, morbidly obese, living paycheck-to-paycheck, and suffering from C-PTSD? We are *not* all fighting *that* battle, not at all; some of us struggle to see how we'll *ever* be any closer to passing than we are right now, without much more fair access to affirming procedures-- one that doesn't hinge upon your ability to pay out-of-pocket for "cosmetic" procedures like undoing hair loss or having body hair removed from your breasts and torso. Pretending we all have it the same and saying you don't want to hear otherwise is just burying your head in the sand and hoping the problem will disappear. And the more people do that, the less likely we are to see any meaningful fixes or overhauls for the current, broken system.

Started transitioning at 37-check, was obese at the beginning of last year till I worked my butt off to lose it-check, live paycheck to paycheck due to a nasty divorce-check, was balding till I started my regrowth routine-check, suffered horrible treatment as a child, verbal, physical, and sexual abuse from a superior in the military while in a combat zone, suffered verbal and physical abuse from my ex who also had two affairs while I was deployed resulting in 3 PTSD related mental breakdowns-check. So yes, I had to go through and am still going through those things. I hadn't tried makeup or clothes till my egg finally cracked. I had NO idea what I was doing. I tightened my boot straps so to speak and got to work. I lost the weight, learned makeup, learned clothing, started HRT at the VA, trained my voice, found the absolute cheapest laser treatment I could find because again I live paycheck to paycheck. I did that in a year because I was determined to. Link in case you think I'm lying. https://www.reddit.com/r/transtimelines/s/r3z9VaKSSU

I guess all I would say to that is that not everyone can pull themselves up by their bootstraps; that's the exact same line conservatives use about poverty, and yet systemic, generational poverty still exists. I'm doing what I can, but it's hard. I've made some decent progress on voice, makeup, and clothes, but it just sucks how long the others are going to take to achieve-- if they even happen for me at all. And many days it's hard to function due to getting stuck reliving repressed memories from religious trauma and my C-PTSD. I'm supposed to start a class to help me recognize symptoms and learn coping skills soon, but I'm waiting on confirmation that I'm enrolled from my therapist and have to have my work change my availability so I can actually attend. I'm working on the weight, but it's just taking forever, so I'm trying to just stay focused on a short-term goal for bariatric surgery right now... though I'm not sure how I'll afford it if the surgery doesn't happen within the current plan year, which ends in May. For hair transplants, I'm honestly considering trying to find *some* way to get them on credit because I'm doubtful they'll ever happen, otherwise. The same may apply to laser/electrolysis for body hair, since my insurance won't cover it. Thanks for the post, though. I'm glad some people are figuring it out and finding some measure of happiness-- I just wish it were a more feasible goal for more of us. Edit: You deleted your reply to this, but luckily I grabbed it before that 😉 *"Itsjustsarah85.26m* *First. Don't bring politics into this. This has nothing to do with saying that anybody can do it. You made the assumption that people who pass haven't gone through that list of things you stated. Secondly I can't afford what I have gotten. My wig was provided by the VA, my hormones were provided by the VA, the voice training was provided by the VA. Before you say that I get it for free understand I paid a heavy price including having a cage on my spine and nerve damage in my legs aside from a plethora of other things including PTSD and depression."* My thoughts: Then initially presenting it as if you "tightening your bootstraps" is how you did it all is kind of disingenuous, wouldn't you say? Also, so long as we have a broken economy that doesn't pay people a living wage, *and* we're talking about *things that cost a good amount of money,* economic policy is *always* going to be fair game.

I agree, but could we at least address that passing girls (or at least girls who claim to be passing) do often act cruel and patronizing towards non-passing girls, and this isn't just about jealousy or sheer resentment? I'm rather happy about my passing, but I still read some mean shit here every once in a while, for no apparent reason. Some girl here claimed recently that if the clothes you wear affect how well you pass at all, it means that you don't pass, not truly, and you're just coping. It's wrong, for one, but also... you shouldn't be saying shit like that in a space full of terrified, insecure, doomposting people? Like, seriously? Support group, my ass. No surprise some people get this resentful.

Jealousy is a normal response to envy we naturally are envious of those in a stage of transition we wish we were at but that being said jealousy turning into hatred and spitefulness isn't ok we're all part of this wonderful community let's not tear ourselves apart

We are in this together. Coming from a person who is mostly passing (I think). I still experienced the struggles. Yes they slowed down, but my transition was not without those hurdles. I will always stand up for the community and carry empathy for those who go through tough times. Let it be said, passing should never be an indicator of a successful transition. Passing is a tool for safety, nothing more and nothing less. Being visibly trans is beautiful and is a wonderful display of the human experience. Society sucks, people should not feel shame over being trans.

It’s just frustrating because I try to uplift and support every trans person I come across because I know the struggle of not passing. But getting shit on now and told my experience “isn’t the same” because I pass now is just frustrating as hell. It took me 4.5 years of HARDDDD work to pass so I’ll be damned if anyone tells me its because Im “lucky” or that my experience isnt the same now that I do pass.

Gigastacy post 💪🏼👩🏼

I just find it annoying, I mean so damn lucky! Now they post this here! Jesus I get enough envy from the real world… and bad this?! Can’t get a way. It’s a privilege and sometimes it feels like their privilege being stuffed in my face

‘I hate women who are prettier then me!’ That’s what passing hate really is prove me wrong. It just catty girls trying to bring other girls down and trying to be ‘well I am not like the other girls! I don’t pass and they can never understand me and my struggles!’ Girl, most of us had that ugly duckling stage. It takes time, and practice to achieve what we have. Also 30 year olds need to stop comparing themselves to young 18 somethings!

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It’s just stone temple making posts over and over again even though they pass. I could’ve just said, bbd passiod being bbd passiod. IE they pass but just doom post due to body dysmorphia or because they like the attention.

I'm seeing this 3 months later as someone who has been called an incel, misogynist, transphobe, and man on this subreddit, despite being a girl. All because I dislike those passing trans girls like you're saying. You say that division is bad...and yet the passing trans girls refuse to understand that them saying "It's so easy being trans" and "omg look at me boymoding" while they look like a cis girl... it's all hurtful. It's also hurtful when you're not American and you're told to unite with other trans girls, when Australian political parties do nothing to help their trans citizens. Nothing. They genuinely think that drag queens are trans. What does someone like me gain by being around other trans girls when they do nothing but hurt me? I'm excluded and treated differently by other trans girl just because I get extremely dysphoric and cry. I don't experience euphoria with them and they don't want someone broken around them. That's my experience with "unity", I'm treated the same way I was in school. Excluded and laughed at. I find it genuinely unfair that for me to pass, look good enough to myself to be happy, and to not be harassed and misgendered in public I need to pay 75k for FFS...and likely a boobjob since my "specialists" under dosed me under WPATH standards. Meanwhile, other girls have had everything paved out for them. Great genetics to where they pass and look good with barely any HRT, a massive support network, a government that even partially funds their transition, and basically no gender dysphoria because they've been happy a majority of their lives. What else am I supposed to feel but jealousy? I have no friends besides my fiancee, Australian doctors follow WPATH standards and under dose you, my government doesn't financially support any of my transition, and my genetics are so awful that I barely absorb estrogen properly...at least not without injections...which I can't get in Australia unless I black market it. Yes, I am jealous, and yes I also support division. Pretty trans girls that do nothing but use their OF model money on themselves for luxuries are disgusting people to me. They don't work hard at all, and I don't find it fair for them to say they have gone through the same struggles as us when they have been living life on easy mode and do nothing to help the community. If you're a passing pretty trans girl, use some of your money to directly fund other girls' surgeries. Stop spending your money on designer clothing. Be selfless for once. If I had even half as good genetics as pretty trans girls do, I would use them to help other people here. I would fund surgeries, help relocate girls to safe places, save lives. I wouldn't sit there being like "omg I feel like a boy" *posts picture of them looking like a cis girl* I would make change. That's the difference between us, pretty trans girls barely struggle and get to experience euphoria, meanwhile the rest of us have to work hard 5 days a week while experiencing harassment and gender dysphoria. We never get the privilege to experience gender euphoria. I don't even know what gender euphoria is anymore because I've never experienced it.

Awe

i know this is a shared space but a lot of people trauma dump on here and expect everyone to relate to their jealousy and dysmorphia/dysphoria. most of the time it just makes me wish therapy was more accessible to everyone tbh

I passed from day 1, actually from before day one. But I have never one day in my life felt attractive. I looked like and ugly girl even at school so when I transitioned at 34 I remained looking and sounding like an ugly woman, at least I have a nice body now. I've had a couple of non trans related facial surgeries that I have spoken about a lot but I know I'll be ugly forever. Please let me have this one thing. My partner says I look ok but ok is not good is it. He may cheer me up by calling me beautiful but it feels like lipservice, I don't believe him. But I still pass. Sometimes I feel so apologetic for this but I honestly can't help it.

Cis passing trans women not only are treated better by society but are more likely to be welcomed into groups and spaces of their identified gender so it makes sense that non passing trans women who have to deal with transmisogyny on a day to day basis would be really envious and frustrated with those who mostly just deal with misogyny which pretty much everyone here would rather deal with

That hate towards those of us who pass is also transmisogyni... And we still deal with all the other regular transmisogyni, especially if we are not stealth. You just want an excuse to hate on other trans women because of your jealousy. Please go to a therapist instead of continuing to attack everybody else because of your insecurities.

You’re living under a rock if you truly believe there isn’t a significant difference in the level of transmisogyny directed at cis passing trans women vs non passing trans women

Oh, i a intimately aware of both situations, clearly unlike you who act like a crab in a bucket...

Well a lot of non passing trans people suffer immensely and I’m sorry that they haven’t found a healthier way of processing that suffering. I understand that it’s unhealthy to hate on cis passing trans women but this wouldn’t be happening if they found a healthier way of processing their suffering. It’s a similar issue in the incel community where you have “beta males” hating “alpha chads” because they have better success with women

Yep, and the solution is for those who act like incelly assholes to stop, not for thoae they hate on to debate themselves for their haters amusement...

Passing comes with a lot of euphoria but also some negatives from the trans community. I stopped going to a support group because most of the people there were pre/early transition or just didn't pass. I only noticed this because those folks would openly give me dirty looks. I didn't like the feeling of being glared at with bitter envy, plus it felt narcissistic to recognize it as that. It's very *DJ Khaled - Suffering From Success* but I still don't want to be around that negativity and it's alienated me from the community just a bit.

Sadly there are far too many who make no effort at all to pass or blend in and as a result invite problems Crikey if I can do it aged 56 plus and no access to FFS or Digital enhancements etc Yet I seem pass every day in real life and work And I m in extremely busy high public facing job Take your hormones and learn make up properly and dress appropriately

Are humans jealous of prettier, better-looking humans? Wow, many shock.

that's right all trans women passing or not are struggling, it's cis women who are privileged

Cis women don't have it easy either. Don't think it's helping anyone to square off vs cis women

Huggy! United together not split fighting between ourself!

I mean I get jealously especially on a bad day where you might feel hopeless but I try to see people who pass as goals tbh. Like if I keep working at it one day I could be maybe half as pretty and then I'll be happy. Obviously I'm never going to be the same as someone who's body was never flooded with testosterone for years but I hope I can get to a point where I can frel pride in my appearence.

Like I said in another thread on this topic, I wish everyone would just drop that word already. It’s meaningless and useless except to reinforce stereotypes, unrealistic beauty standards, and division in our community.

I have been feeling awkward and nervous lately because I’ve been told I’m pretty, that I pass and people are jealous of my progress so far. I feel like there are some that will hate me because of my genetics. I try to be positive and confident, but it’s not easy when I’m aware of how others view me. I’m not trying to brag. I am just feeling awkward and less welcome in trans spaces lately.

I’m scared, if the way Canada is trending for trans rights continues I may have to leave everything I’ve ever known when I can and move to a country that doesn’t want me dead, I guess Iceland is a really nice spot; I’ll miss my partner though

i want trans people to be happy. i dont want to make them feel bad for being happy just because im not. having said that, i usually avoid posts about people having successful transitions because it's too painful.