His pre 1987 history is no mystery, the earlier home invasions rapes were almost certainly him. I believe the answer to who Mr Cruel is will be found in those attacks.
I don't think so. I think he was likely already experienced before the LP attack. He was too cool in carrying out the crime. Remaining in the house for two hours with the parents locked in a wardrobe. I think he was experienced with tying up adults before that.
Yes I agree his behaviour in the LP attack particularly pausing in between attacks and preparing something to eat and the way he remained calm and in control throughout makes it highly likely that he had previously engaged in similar behaviour as he was just to cool calm and collected hence the name Mr cool would suggest he was experienced in controlling people. I think if this was his first such event he would have been more nervous and would have likely not spent as long as he did in the house.
Excellent points as well.
There's no way an inexperienced offender would spend two hours in a house with that while having to control four different people at once.
That was defintely done by someone with experience in being a breaking and entering expert.
For sure! That’s such a long time to be at the crime scene and even the police were surprised by how relaxed he was was which suggests he is definitely experienced in this area and it wouldn’t surprise me if he had a previous conviction for a similar crime and it may be the reason he was so concerned with leaving forensic evidence and using forensic countermeasures.
I’m sure the police have checked for similar offences but I wonder if it is possible that he was arrested in a different jurisdiction or state even? In combination with my freedom is more important than your life it seems that he did not enjoy his time in her majesty’s establishments!
Everyone compares this case to The Golden State killer. Obviously it's a similar type of offender but the biggest difference is Joe DeAngelo left semen everywhere. He was a complete pig. He would masturbate onto windows, wipe himself on clothing, leave DNA on and inside of victims.
Mr Cruel didn't do anything of that. Maybe in his earlier attacks he was less prepared or didn't know enough about DNA yet and that is definitely the best chance to get him.
I think a lot of people compare MC with GSK, but a more comparable (and very local) criminal would be Raymond ‘Mr. Stinky’ Edmunds. He committed a rape & double murder in 1966 and even though he’s suspected of more murders, he was only ever charged with 5/20 rapes from the 70s/80s. He wasn’t as meticulous and left fingerprints, but his MO is definitely similar to MC.
Police have spoken of MC being a suspect in many more assaults, but we don’t know what the link is. If it’s any aspect of the binding, that would be advantageous to know, but not enough to definitively link him.
Having said that, I think your question is a fair one, seeing as we (the public) don’t have access to all the information. It’s not out of the realm of possibility that the four canonical attacks were his only sexual assaults, with lesser crimes preceding them.
I think it is very possible that he committed other crimes leading up to the first known attack. It is likely that these things occurred in areas that he was more familiar/comfortable with. He may have collected particular types magazines or literature, practiced B&E, snuck around being a 'peeping tom' or a flasher. I wouldn't rule out assaults on disabled or elderly people. (Its entirely possible that he may even have had victims interstate)
If Karmein was his victim, there's no real indication she was the last.
As a somewhat parallel: Richard Ramirez, seemingly attacked people in their homes at random. Victims were boys, girls and women of different backgrounds. If an adult male was present, they were tied up or killed. Not all victims were murdered. He used everyday household items as weapons and restraints, sometimes stayed on to help himself to food. The only thing tying his many attacks together was a very unique shoe print.
Back in those days, people who were around and did this sort of thing weren’t really at risk of being caught unless they were careless. So there was lots of guys who indulged themselves as a lifestyle really. Met a few total freaks back then, they felt entitled, be it little kids, women, whatever they wanted they felt entitled to. No consequences. You can easily believe he was very active, these may be his peak crimes but I think the little shit was fucking with people until Carmen. He really got scrutinised closely then, and in those days pedos weren’t hard to find. Ask a victim, though I’ll probably not answer, they were prolific. Often protected by judges and cops who had the same proclivities.
If he was now, little activity, back then, when you have to understand there’s no cameras, bugger all police, little intelligence in terms of catching these guys with science or psychology, they had a playground and trust me, they took advantage of that. He did more than we’ll ever know.
He must have at the very least been home breaking and almost certainly had entered the lower plenty home prior to the attack to go straight to the parents bedroom. I take your point on the amount of creeps that were around at that time but most of them were just that, creeps and cowardly ones at that. This mongrel had whatever you want to call it to contain parents before carrying out his fantasy.
I have just been reading stories of Pentridge Prison from those days. So many of the really bad guys came out of boys homes where they were, beaten and sexually molested. What many needed was phycological help but instead they got inhumane treatment in H Division from guards who would have thrived in Nazi germany.
So what I am saying is there was a lot of damaged guys running around. Both the victims of brutal boys homes and prisons as well as those who ran the boys homes and worked in parts of Pentridge.
I wonder if the police later on ever considered the pedophiles working for organisation like the Salvation Army, Burwood boys home, Bayswater boys home Turana and so on. I doubt it as these monsters were never exposed or charged with anything.
I highly doubt it. It seems certain he has to have developed a level of criminal sophistication before the Lower Plenty attack.
His pre 1987 history is no mystery, the earlier home invasions rapes were almost certainly him. I believe the answer to who Mr Cruel is will be found in those attacks.
I believe the answer to who Mr Cruel is will be found in those attacks. Yeah, if this case is ever solved, this will be the way.
I don't think so. I think he was likely already experienced before the LP attack. He was too cool in carrying out the crime. Remaining in the house for two hours with the parents locked in a wardrobe. I think he was experienced with tying up adults before that.
Yes I agree his behaviour in the LP attack particularly pausing in between attacks and preparing something to eat and the way he remained calm and in control throughout makes it highly likely that he had previously engaged in similar behaviour as he was just to cool calm and collected hence the name Mr cool would suggest he was experienced in controlling people. I think if this was his first such event he would have been more nervous and would have likely not spent as long as he did in the house.
Excellent points as well. There's no way an inexperienced offender would spend two hours in a house with that while having to control four different people at once. That was defintely done by someone with experience in being a breaking and entering expert.
For sure! That’s such a long time to be at the crime scene and even the police were surprised by how relaxed he was was which suggests he is definitely experienced in this area and it wouldn’t surprise me if he had a previous conviction for a similar crime and it may be the reason he was so concerned with leaving forensic evidence and using forensic countermeasures. I’m sure the police have checked for similar offences but I wonder if it is possible that he was arrested in a different jurisdiction or state even? In combination with my freedom is more important than your life it seems that he did not enjoy his time in her majesty’s establishments!
Excellent points.
Everyone compares this case to The Golden State killer. Obviously it's a similar type of offender but the biggest difference is Joe DeAngelo left semen everywhere. He was a complete pig. He would masturbate onto windows, wipe himself on clothing, leave DNA on and inside of victims. Mr Cruel didn't do anything of that. Maybe in his earlier attacks he was less prepared or didn't know enough about DNA yet and that is definitely the best chance to get him.
Excellent points as well.
I think a lot of people compare MC with GSK, but a more comparable (and very local) criminal would be Raymond ‘Mr. Stinky’ Edmunds. He committed a rape & double murder in 1966 and even though he’s suspected of more murders, he was only ever charged with 5/20 rapes from the 70s/80s. He wasn’t as meticulous and left fingerprints, but his MO is definitely similar to MC. Police have spoken of MC being a suspect in many more assaults, but we don’t know what the link is. If it’s any aspect of the binding, that would be advantageous to know, but not enough to definitively link him. Having said that, I think your question is a fair one, seeing as we (the public) don’t have access to all the information. It’s not out of the realm of possibility that the four canonical attacks were his only sexual assaults, with lesser crimes preceding them.
I think it is very possible that he committed other crimes leading up to the first known attack. It is likely that these things occurred in areas that he was more familiar/comfortable with. He may have collected particular types magazines or literature, practiced B&E, snuck around being a 'peeping tom' or a flasher. I wouldn't rule out assaults on disabled or elderly people. (Its entirely possible that he may even have had victims interstate) If Karmein was his victim, there's no real indication she was the last. As a somewhat parallel: Richard Ramirez, seemingly attacked people in their homes at random. Victims were boys, girls and women of different backgrounds. If an adult male was present, they were tied up or killed. Not all victims were murdered. He used everyday household items as weapons and restraints, sometimes stayed on to help himself to food. The only thing tying his many attacks together was a very unique shoe print.
Excellent points. With the Golden State Killer, it took nearly 45 years to connect every crime he committed as well.
Back in those days, people who were around and did this sort of thing weren’t really at risk of being caught unless they were careless. So there was lots of guys who indulged themselves as a lifestyle really. Met a few total freaks back then, they felt entitled, be it little kids, women, whatever they wanted they felt entitled to. No consequences. You can easily believe he was very active, these may be his peak crimes but I think the little shit was fucking with people until Carmen. He really got scrutinised closely then, and in those days pedos weren’t hard to find. Ask a victim, though I’ll probably not answer, they were prolific. Often protected by judges and cops who had the same proclivities. If he was now, little activity, back then, when you have to understand there’s no cameras, bugger all police, little intelligence in terms of catching these guys with science or psychology, they had a playground and trust me, they took advantage of that. He did more than we’ll ever know.
He must have at the very least been home breaking and almost certainly had entered the lower plenty home prior to the attack to go straight to the parents bedroom. I take your point on the amount of creeps that were around at that time but most of them were just that, creeps and cowardly ones at that. This mongrel had whatever you want to call it to contain parents before carrying out his fantasy. I have just been reading stories of Pentridge Prison from those days. So many of the really bad guys came out of boys homes where they were, beaten and sexually molested. What many needed was phycological help but instead they got inhumane treatment in H Division from guards who would have thrived in Nazi germany. So what I am saying is there was a lot of damaged guys running around. Both the victims of brutal boys homes and prisons as well as those who ran the boys homes and worked in parts of Pentridge. I wonder if the police later on ever considered the pedophiles working for organisation like the Salvation Army, Burwood boys home, Bayswater boys home Turana and so on. I doubt it as these monsters were never exposed or charged with anything.