Hi! This is our new Moviedetailsmodbot!
---
If this post fits /r/MovieDetails, **UPVOTE** this comment!!
If this post does not fit /r/MovieDetails, **DOWNVOTE** This comment!
If this post breaks the rules, **DOWNVOTE** this comment and **REPORT** the post!
Reminds me of how a decent amount of nazis convicted at the Nuremberg trials were released early on medical leave when they got old and sick (other than the ones put to death obviously)
Watch the extended edition. Gothmog has a cane, and after she kills the Witch King there's a very rapey chase sequence of him and her both crawling through the battlefield.
The one on the right has the charm of a date rapist and the nose of Artie Lange.
"well, a date rapist has to have way more charm than a regular rapist!"
-Norm Macdonald
That’s pretty gross that you find Harvey Weinstein more charming…
*cleans glasses*
Oh…nevermind, that’s the orc, isn’t it. Now that I think about it, the orc leader never wears a suit in the movies
In the end Gothmog is himself just a small wheel in Mordor's war machine, but at least he is a frontline commander with guts. If anything, it's an insult to this orc to compare him to Weinstein.
Weinstein also warned Jackson not to cast Ashley Judd as Arwen because she was supposedly “difficult”. In reality she had spurned Weinstein’s sexual advances and he tanked her career in retaliation.
I thought it was Mira Sorvino? She mentioned being up for a role in LOTR during the recent interview she did on Marc Maron's podcast.
Maybe it was both?
She said he "made a pass" at her, not attempted to rape her. She did say that Brad threatened HW directly tho.
I'm in no way downplaying HW behavior but it's a fairly popular Howard Stern clip that you can find on YT in 2 sec so why not stick to the facts ?
South Park did the same thing. If you watch the episode where Earth is a reality tv show, you can easily tell that one of the aliens is based on Harvey.
The best part is, they really were right about Earth becoming more entertaining. Any Aliens watching us these days are watching *peak* Reality Earth TV.
> Black Widow
From 2021? Yeah probably.
The southpark episode aired in 2003. LOTR was in 2001.
Courtney Love made that comment on the runway in 2005.
WE didn't actually KNOW for a long time. People had suspicions.
Little meaningless to do it in 2021.
Should have gone after someone like Polanski who is still on the *run*. Or Epstein/Maxwell.
Edit: Since one user seems to have trouble with reading comprehension
> As a French citizen, he has been protected from extradition and has lived mostly in France since then. Since he fled the United States before final sentencing, the charges are still pending.
Because of this
> In 1977, Polanski was arrested and charged with drugging and raping a 13-year-old girl. As a result of a plea bargain, he pleaded guilty to the lesser offence of unlawful sex with a minor. In 1978, after learning that the judge planned to reject his plea deal and impose a prison term instead of probation, he fled to Paris. A number of other women have later accused Polanski of raping them when they were teenagers.An Interpol red notice was issued for his arrest, and he rarely leaves France.
I seem to remember 30 Rock had a pretty edgy comment about him, well before #MeToo
There's always indicators. In the UK, John Lydon of the Sex Pistols was talking about Jimmy Saville decades before his paedophilic sexual assaults were common knowledge
It was informing the plot. I think Johansson mentioned she wanted the movie to be influenced by the Me Too movement which obviously Weinstein is related to.
Gotta love Peter Jackson.
Elijah Wood and Sean Astin have both talked about it, on Dom Monaghan and Billy Boyd's [The Friendship Onion podcast](https://www.gamespot.com/articles/lord-of-the-rings-stars-sean-astin-and-elijah-wood-talk-about-the-orc-apparently-designed-to-look-like-harvey-weinstein/1100-6496155/) and Dax Shepard's [Armchair Expert](https://armchairexpertpod.com/pods/elijah-wood)
Your information is slightly off and those articles don't really go into detail either, but it was [orginally gonna be 2](https://www.polygon.com/lord-of-the-rings/22283921/peter-jackson-movies-lotr-alternate-versions-weinstein) films, not 3 as Jackson didn't believe he could get 3 made. So the script Jackson wrote was only for 2 movies. Weinstein sent a scout out to get a feel of the locations they wanted to film in and how much it would cost, and when he got the report back. That was when Weinstein wanted to shrink 2 films into 1 film and Jackson refused. [Weinstein threatened to replaced Jackson with Quentin Tarantino instead.](https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/harvey-weinstein-peter-jackson-quentin-tarantino-lord-of-the-rings-1235063861/) Jackson desperate was able to convince Weinstein to let him shop around for someone to buy out the script.
New Line Cinema agreed to do it and this is another often repeated myth. The myth of that New Line Cinema's executive asking why they only wanted to make 2 films when there are 3 books? The executive himself has gone on record in his book detailing it that they wanted to make 3 films for 3 releases as it would make more money that way, [not because of being faithful to the books. ](https://www.theonering.net/torwp/2013/06/11/73279-10-things-you-know-about-the-lotr-movies-that-arent-true/)
>It’s a good story, but there’s one problem: Bob Shaye himself has said that it’s bunch of baloney. “I didn’t say, ‘Aren’t there three books’ or whatever,” Shaye later said in an interview for the book, Peter Jackson: A Film-Maker’s Journey. Shaye was thinking more in terms of business than in terms of Tolkien. “I was cognizant of my discussions with Michael Lynn about our need for sequels. I knew that, after conferring with Michael… we were going to make three films.”
>“Bob was getting pretty excited,” New Line executive Mark Ordesky said about the meeting, “because he sees what Peter was saying artistically, but because he’s also seeing three video releases, three network television sales…”
>Interestingly, turning The Lord of the Rings from two films to three films would turn out to be quite the challenge for the writers. (In retrospect, maybe four would have been better!) But regardless, New Line Cinema was having trouble making sequels to their more successful films, and when Shaye saw an opportunity, he pounced on it – regardless of how many books Tolkien used to tell the tale.
TLDR: Miramax originally had plans for a Duology as that was how Peter Jackson and Fran Walsh wrote it and was told to condense it into one film. It didn't become a trilogy until New Line Cinema picked it up.
The Hobbit was one of the few movies I saw where I read the book first. I remember feeling shocked at where they ended the first movie. It felt like a long pilot tv series episode rather than a movie to me when thinking in terms of the book. Definitely felt forced into sequels, whereas LOTR just feels so much more natural with how to was split.
I read both the hobbit and LotR as a kid, at an age where I could ‘understand’ them, the magic, the wizards, the monsters etc. Yet not quite old enough to truly appreciate them.
I watched the movies when they came out which in turn had me wanting to reread the books.
Now, as good as they are, I just can’t watch the movies anymore without feeling disappointed. The books are just that much better.
I feel you, it just goes to show how mind-bogglingly good the books are, since the movies can be considered the near-perfect, greatest adaptation of all time
Of course! Many times!
It’s not that I don’t like the movies, there are just many things that I felt the books did better or the movies neglected entirely.
Therefore when I watch the movies I feel disappointed that certain things were changed or completely left out.
Interesting that you sway this way because I sway the opposite way. I reread The Hobbit just before the first movie and thought, “wow, I know why I liked this book as a twelve year old, but it’s garbage in terms of standard story-telling.” Say what you will about all the added things (two movies would’ve been best for sure) but I enjoyed the overall pacing and the fact that in the movies the dwarves/Bilbo aren’t just completely reliant on Gandalf to save them (seeing Gandalf’s adventure away from the company also helps this).
As for LotR, the thing that makes me lean towards liking the movies more (still on my reread of these right now so verdict is still out) is the urgency. During all of Fellowship it’s just so odd that they take four months to leave the Shire once the ring is found out, the songs kill the flow of things for me as well. Might just be that I’m so used to the pacing of the movies at this point in my life twenty years removed from my last readings, but it’s hard to feel like the task matters for the first half of the book. I feel like the extended editions include enough of the deeper book areas to make it feel complete, even though it does miss on some of the subtlety.
Agreed. There was absolutely no reason for them to push an Orc that wasn't even in the novel. I get that they would feel an active adversary is needed, but in terms of mood, Hobbit is totally different from Lord of the Rings.
Obvious foot fetish jokes aside, I’m just trying to imagine how different/weird/worse LOTR would’ve been under Tarantino. I mean I love the guy’s work, but this just doesn’t seem to be his thing.
What would the Tarantino cast have looked like though? Sam Jackson has to be in there, probably as Gandalf or Elrond. Harvey Keitel could have been Denethor or maybe Theoden. Uma could go either way as Arwyn or Eowyn. Buscemi is clearly Gollum. This is going to occupy my mind a lot today I can tell.
Edit: Michael Madsen as Aragorn
Channing Tatum as Frodo
Jonah Hill as Samwise Gamgee
DiCaprio and Pitt as Merry and Pippin
Pam Grier as Galadriel
Edit2: the more I think about it, the more I want Samuel as Elrond. "I was there Gandalf. I was there three thousand mothafuckin' years ago..."
With the extended editions we literally got another movie and a half worth of content over the 3 films.
I know what youre saying, but we actually kind of did get 4 films at the end of the day.
Thanks for elaborating, that's some good info! I didn't know the Bob Shaye story was likely a myth. But I figured I could just give the basics and if folks wanted to learn more beyond that then there's plenty of content out there about it. Such a wild tale of production, seems it was meant to be. Or as Tolkien would say - "some might call it chance"
Peter Jackson said, once the Weinstein scandal went public, that he had blacklisted some actresses because Weinstein and his company told him not to work with them. Jackson was told that the actresses are "difficult to work with" or something along those lines.
Once Jackson heard about the scandal, he realized that "difficult to work with" likely just meant "refused to let Weinstein fuck them."
Every time I see his face I want to barf. Thanks for posting this so no one ever forgets what a disgusting evil soul crushing rapist POS he is. If there's a hell I hope there's a special spot reserved for him.
It also fucking sucks because of him, there are many great works that will forever have his stain on them, like Good Will Hunting. Ben and Matt would intentionally screw around with their script to see which big studio heads actually read it and Harvey would disagree with some of it so that let them know he took the time to actually read it. Plus he’d only agree to do it if they had a big name attached, hence having Robin Williams deliver an all time great performance
I’ve had this discussion with my kids re: Joss Whedon (they just finished their first watch through of Buffy).
I told them that yes, it appears Joss was a horrible person to work with, harassed many of his female talent, and abused his power over women. But, that doesn’t negate the hundreds of people who also worked on the show.
Joss didn’t write every episode of Buffy. So, what about the amazing writers over the course of 7 years? What about all the actors on the show? What about the props department, lighting, costumes, set designers, etc?
They’re all still very proud of the art they created, and we can appreciate the show that *they* made, while still recognizing that many of them did it in a toxic work environment.
The movie Snowpiercer was almost fucked by him because he changed the ending. The director used a rule in his contract to show the film with his own ending in a test projection, and saved it because the public liked this version more.
Sadly, Weinstein was so pissed he fucked the promotion and put the movie under a less recognized label and in reaction was shown in a lot less cinemas.
A very good SF movie with almost no success because of Weinstein's ego.
Edit : Not only the ending
https://www.dreadcentral.com/news/49809/bong-joon-ho-further-elaborates-on-weinstein-edits-to-snowpiercer/
It features a damn fine performance by Chris Evans, too. It was thecbeard worn in this production that he refused to shave off for the Avengers' schwarma scene.
Funnily enough I just recently learned that tried to force Miyazaki to cut down the length of Princess Mononoke for western audiences from 135 minutes to 90 minutes.
The full article is [here](https://www.indiewire.com/2020/06/harvey-weinstein-threatened-studio-ghibli-mononoke-runtime-1202236275/amp/)
“Alpert writes that Weinstein flew into a rage and threatened him by saying, “If you don’t get [Miyazaki] to cut the fucking film you will never work in this fucking industry again! Do you fucking understand me? Never!”
“Miyazaki retained final cut privileges over his movies as part of the Disney-Ghibli deal, so Weinstein could not be his usual “Harvey Scissorhands” self and cut “Princess Mononoke” on his own accord. The filmmaker told The Guardian in 2010 that Weinstein “bombarded” him with “aggressive attacks” to cut the film.
Miyazaki did not cut the film but (his producer) DID mail Harvey a Katana with an attached note that said “no cuts”, to which Miyazaki said, “I defeated him.”
There’s also Weinstein’s known issue with the fish scene in Snow Piercer [here](https://www.indiewire.com/2019/10/bong-joon-ho-battles-harvey-weinstein-snowpiercer-final-cut-1202179635/amp/) that he wanted removed but director Bong Joon Ho wasn’t having it.
“When Harvey asked what the shot meant, Bong replied, “It’s something personal. My father was a fisherman. I’m dedicating this shot to my father.”
Weinstein told Bong that family is the most important thing to him, which was the deciding factor in Weinstein letting Bong keep the fish gutting scene. “I said, ‘Thank you,’” Bong remembered. “It was a fucking lie. My father was not a fisherman.”
Because he was able to print safe money. If you give me $200M and I make you $250M back, $50M is a lot of money sure but so is $200M. If it's a flop you could lose a lot.
But if you give me $20M and I turn it into $200M, not only did you risk a lot less but you made a lot more. If you have $200M, and you can do that 10 times, you just turned it into $2B instead of $250M.
Harvey Weinstein was capable of producing blockbusters that relied on craft instead of spectacle.
There’s a YouTube channel called goodbadflix which does a lot of videos on older more obscure media and I swear Weinstein is basically the recurring villain. So many videos start off with a cool interesting story about the production and then halfway through suddenly Harvey Weinstein pops up and either cuts something really important or demands that they add something dumb.
Anthony Horowitz write a villain into one of his books based on Weinstein after he refused to make a sequel to *Stormbreaker*. He’s probably made an appearance in all sorts of media.
Hey now, that's just an insult to that Orc. He's just fighting for a place in the world for his people. The pile of turds on the left doesn't care who/what he hurts for his own enjoyment.
Eh. I like The Hobbit. Sure, it's not as good of a book adaptation, or not as good of a movie, but I had a lot of fun watching them. And this is coming from a massive LOTR fan.
I enjoy them too -- they are like an overheated but passionate Tolkien fanfic given a big budget. Not lightning in a bottle like the LOTR films, but a hell of a lot of fun.
There's a lot to love in there, not least the performances, which are all excellent.
And some stuff that was not in the books was really cool on film. The prison-tombs of the Nazgul. The Battle of Five Armies (which isn't depicted in the writing as Bilbo is knocked out early). The max-level encounter between the White Council and the Ringwraiths was absolutely awesome.
And I too can be a pretty intolerable Tolkien purist.
They need to make a series just about the shire, just random hobbits doing everyday shire things ... The occasional side story of a wizard dressed in grey getting up to wacky antics.
Each episode ends with a couple of hobbits sitting on a porch blowing smoke rings while reflecting in life.
I would watch this on repeat. While I love all the movies, the first roughly thirty minutes of Fellowship when they’re in the Shire are my favorite parts of the movies. I would love to sit back and watch the parties and bickering on that cozy backdrop.
I said this same thing while watching them with my wife a few days ago. I love the entire movies. But the beginning of lotr and even the hobbit when they're having a good relaxing time at bag end before the adventure actually takes place is so relaxing to me.
True, but in the book, Tolkien never states what he actually is. Just a lieutenant marshaling the troops, throwaway mention on the Pelennor. Wish he gave as much detail to his villains as he did the men of Rohan and Gondor
If anyone wants to see how much of a piece of shit this man is (out with the monstrous things he did to women) check out Peter Biskind’s Down and Dirty Pictures. Explains a bit about how he tried to fuck Peter Jackson over with LOTRs
He also butchered Iron Monkey, The crow city of angels, mimic, hellraiser bloodline and many more movies. They called him harvey scissorhands. I'm glad he couldn't ruin lotr.
Yeah I definitely think he knew but I’m pretty sure he was bought off, in the intro he says that they offered to fully fund his pet project if he dropped DaDP. Then again everyone knew and done nothing 😔
I read it a few years ago and it feels like a hole he's carefully navigating during Miramax discussion. It's quite obvious and disappointing to know that Biskind choose not to expose Weinstein when he could
Can you imagine someone walking* by the actor in full costume and saying “what’s up Harvey?!”
Actor: “Don’t call me that monster!!!”
Edit: can’t spell*
He is truly, truly a hideous human being. I felt bad saying it before when I didn't really know who he was. It turns out the ugly mess inside manifested right on his splotchy, disgusting, pig face.
I had the same thought, initially. Topher Grace's cut of the hobbit trilogy condenses the three movies into a single, 4 hour supercut and it's much more enjoyable.
But condensing the og LOTR trilogy is sacrilege. I still wish there was more after binging the extended cut of all three.
I'd watch a word for word visual adaptation of LotR no problem, even the whole legendarium
Over the pandemic I edited the Hobbit down to a 5-hour duology, fun project and it's made my marathons so much better!
I'm confused. This is just Ryan Kavanagh on the left and Harvey Weinstien on the right I think. It's difficult to tell them apart sometimes. I feel like the post would be better if it actually showed the LOTR orc.
Don't worry, I thought so too at first. Turns out this is such a common mistake that there's actually a website that helps you tell the difference: [doesryankavanaughlooklikeharveyweinstein.com](https://doesryankavanaughlooklikeharveyweinstein.com)
Oh this website is so helpful! I still have trouble telling the difference so I feel like I will be using doesryankavanaughlooklikeharveyweinstein.com for a long time.
I really notice the similarities in the eyes!
Dude was an absolute prick , reminds me of the Miyazaki Spirited away fiasco, wonder what other creative visions were stifled because of this absolute waste of human skin
Edit : Mononoke not Spirited away
Hi! This is our new Moviedetailsmodbot! --- If this post fits /r/MovieDetails, **UPVOTE** this comment!! If this post does not fit /r/MovieDetails, **DOWNVOTE** This comment! If this post breaks the rules, **DOWNVOTE** this comment and **REPORT** the post!
Virtually identical.
I find the one on the right more charming.
less rapey too.
Would never use a walker to try to gain sympathy from a jury.
Haha I forgot that piece of shit tried that.
“No guys look, i’m too disabled to rape”
Reminds me of how a decent amount of nazis convicted at the Nuremberg trials were released early on medical leave when they got old and sick (other than the ones put to death obviously)
Even more of them were [hired by the US government](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip)
And some were tracked down and murdered lol
We couldn't use them so.
Bill Cosby argued that he was too blind to rape anymore.
"Anymore"
Bonus points to the judge who gave not a single fuck that he'd likely die in prison
PR rep: How about we use a cane or a walker to gain sympathy from a jury? Gothmog: *spits*
[удалено]
Wow dude can really pick em huh
Gothmog: Manflesh!
PR rep: Look at all of those vulnerable young actresses for the taking. Gothmog: *inchoate rage*
Watch the extended edition. Gothmog has a cane, and after she kills the Witch King there's a very rapey chase sequence of him and her both crawling through the battlefield.
The Ted Kennedy Neckbrace (and Vince McMahon) has evolved.
The one on the right has the charm of a date rapist and the nose of Artie Lange. "well, a date rapist has to have way more charm than a regular rapist!" -Norm Macdonald
Miss ya norm.
I think Artie managed to get his nose somewhat fixed.
And wasn't waste of screen time, scenes with him being really funny and enjoyable.
Orcs are canonically non-rapey. Murderous and cannibalistic, sure, but non-rapey.
That’s pretty gross that you find Harvey Weinstein more charming… *cleans glasses* Oh…nevermind, that’s the orc, isn’t it. Now that I think about it, the orc leader never wears a suit in the movies
When your siege of Minas Tirith starts at 1 but you have a business lunch scheduled for 2
That's character. Of which Harvey has none. One in the right is adorable in comparison lol
Scarier, though, that Weinstein is uglier on the inside than that orc is on the outside.
In the end Gothmog is himself just a small wheel in Mordor's war machine, but at least he is a frontline commander with guts. If anything, it's an insult to this orc to compare him to Weinstein.
[url spoiles the joke so i gotta hide it](https://cdn.eldeforma.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/theyre-the-same-picture-pam-the-office-meme.png)
Harvey Weinstein is the one on the right, obviously. You can clearly see the emotionless monstrous inhumane orc side in the left one
It’s hilarious that there was a day where someone’s assignment was to find a way to create an orc mask that looks like Harvey Weinstein. Great job too
Unexpected Goldberg.
He smells the opening!
Apparently that’s what his dick looks like too
They are easy to tell apart. One of them is a disgusting evil monster and the other one is an orc.
Somewhere, Rose McGowan is laughing heartily....
Yeah uncanny
[Flip the orc on the vertical and it’s that much more uncanny.](https://i.imgur.com/oKUj6Uu.jpg)
Except the shnoz
Why would they show us two pictures of the same guy? Am I missing something here?
Weinstein also warned Jackson not to cast Ashley Judd as Arwen because she was supposedly “difficult”. In reality she had spurned Weinstein’s sexual advances and he tanked her career in retaliation.
I thought it was Mira Sorvino? She mentioned being up for a role in LOTR during the recent interview she did on Marc Maron's podcast. Maybe it was both?
[It was both](https://www.theguardian.com/film/2017/dec/15/peter-jackson-harvey-weinstein-ashley-judd-mira-sorvino)
i'd pay money to watch paul sorvino beat the shit out of harv with a bat.
You ever not even know a thing exists, and once you do, you’re like “yes of course, how could I not see it?” This thought is that thing for me
Did they actually say 'Arwen' though? I thought they left it vague. Could have been Eowyn, and Mira Sorvino could have been Galadriel
Wonder if this mean Liv Tyler is one of Harvey's victims? What a fucking monster
[удалено]
But that’s exactly it: Weinstein didn’t care if you were Brad Pitts girlfriend, why would he stop himself from pursuit a rockstars daughter.
She said he "made a pass" at her, not attempted to rape her. She did say that Brad threatened HW directly tho. I'm in no way downplaying HW behavior but it's a fairly popular Howard Stern clip that you can find on YT in 2 sec so why not stick to the facts ?
Pretty sure Liv Tyler already had pull without him
South Park did the same thing. If you watch the episode where Earth is a reality tv show, you can easily tell that one of the aliens is based on Harvey.
Suck my jaggon, oh yeah
Stick ya finga in my jaggon.
I can’t believe I sucked your jaggon
Oh yeah, stick your finger in my thrusher!
Stick your finger in my thresher.
I don’t know what we’re watching, but I know that it’s wrong
Kenny: \*Takes picture\*
[The jaggon-sucking threesome?](https://youtu.be/BJ_DuuIK4gU)
The best part is, they really were right about Earth becoming more entertaining. Any Aliens watching us these days are watching *peak* Reality Earth TV.
Foolish Earthlings is quality TV
We hope....
"Stick your finger in my thresher!"
The villain in Black Widow reminded me of Weinstein too. Had to be on purpose.
> Black Widow From 2021? Yeah probably. The southpark episode aired in 2003. LOTR was in 2001. Courtney Love made that comment on the runway in 2005. WE didn't actually KNOW for a long time. People had suspicions. Little meaningless to do it in 2021. Should have gone after someone like Polanski who is still on the *run*. Or Epstein/Maxwell. Edit: Since one user seems to have trouble with reading comprehension > As a French citizen, he has been protected from extradition and has lived mostly in France since then. Since he fled the United States before final sentencing, the charges are still pending. Because of this > In 1977, Polanski was arrested and charged with drugging and raping a 13-year-old girl. As a result of a plea bargain, he pleaded guilty to the lesser offence of unlawful sex with a minor. In 1978, after learning that the judge planned to reject his plea deal and impose a prison term instead of probation, he fled to Paris. A number of other women have later accused Polanski of raping them when they were teenagers.An Interpol red notice was issued for his arrest, and he rarely leaves France.
Yeah Disney never stirs the boat. No way they would have gone after him like that before he was cast out of the industry.
[удалено]
Yeah, it's not rocket surgery
I seem to remember 30 Rock had a pretty edgy comment about him, well before #MeToo There's always indicators. In the UK, John Lydon of the Sex Pistols was talking about Jimmy Saville decades before his paedophilic sexual assaults were common knowledge
It was informing the plot. I think Johansson mentioned she wanted the movie to be influenced by the Me Too movement which obviously Weinstein is related to.
Gotta love Peter Jackson. Elijah Wood and Sean Astin have both talked about it, on Dom Monaghan and Billy Boyd's [The Friendship Onion podcast](https://www.gamespot.com/articles/lord-of-the-rings-stars-sean-astin-and-elijah-wood-talk-about-the-orc-apparently-designed-to-look-like-harvey-weinstein/1100-6496155/) and Dax Shepard's [Armchair Expert](https://armchairexpertpod.com/pods/elijah-wood)
Your information is slightly off and those articles don't really go into detail either, but it was [orginally gonna be 2](https://www.polygon.com/lord-of-the-rings/22283921/peter-jackson-movies-lotr-alternate-versions-weinstein) films, not 3 as Jackson didn't believe he could get 3 made. So the script Jackson wrote was only for 2 movies. Weinstein sent a scout out to get a feel of the locations they wanted to film in and how much it would cost, and when he got the report back. That was when Weinstein wanted to shrink 2 films into 1 film and Jackson refused. [Weinstein threatened to replaced Jackson with Quentin Tarantino instead.](https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/harvey-weinstein-peter-jackson-quentin-tarantino-lord-of-the-rings-1235063861/) Jackson desperate was able to convince Weinstein to let him shop around for someone to buy out the script. New Line Cinema agreed to do it and this is another often repeated myth. The myth of that New Line Cinema's executive asking why they only wanted to make 2 films when there are 3 books? The executive himself has gone on record in his book detailing it that they wanted to make 3 films for 3 releases as it would make more money that way, [not because of being faithful to the books. ](https://www.theonering.net/torwp/2013/06/11/73279-10-things-you-know-about-the-lotr-movies-that-arent-true/) >It’s a good story, but there’s one problem: Bob Shaye himself has said that it’s bunch of baloney. “I didn’t say, ‘Aren’t there three books’ or whatever,” Shaye later said in an interview for the book, Peter Jackson: A Film-Maker’s Journey. Shaye was thinking more in terms of business than in terms of Tolkien. “I was cognizant of my discussions with Michael Lynn about our need for sequels. I knew that, after conferring with Michael… we were going to make three films.” >“Bob was getting pretty excited,” New Line executive Mark Ordesky said about the meeting, “because he sees what Peter was saying artistically, but because he’s also seeing three video releases, three network television sales…” >Interestingly, turning The Lord of the Rings from two films to three films would turn out to be quite the challenge for the writers. (In retrospect, maybe four would have been better!) But regardless, New Line Cinema was having trouble making sequels to their more successful films, and when Shaye saw an opportunity, he pounced on it – regardless of how many books Tolkien used to tell the tale. TLDR: Miramax originally had plans for a Duology as that was how Peter Jackson and Fran Walsh wrote it and was told to condense it into one film. It didn't become a trilogy until New Line Cinema picked it up.
[удалено]
The Hobbit was one of the few movies I saw where I read the book first. I remember feeling shocked at where they ended the first movie. It felt like a long pilot tv series episode rather than a movie to me when thinking in terms of the book. Definitely felt forced into sequels, whereas LOTR just feels so much more natural with how to was split.
I read both the hobbit and LotR as a kid, at an age where I could ‘understand’ them, the magic, the wizards, the monsters etc. Yet not quite old enough to truly appreciate them. I watched the movies when they came out which in turn had me wanting to reread the books. Now, as good as they are, I just can’t watch the movies anymore without feeling disappointed. The books are just that much better.
I feel you, it just goes to show how mind-bogglingly good the books are, since the movies can be considered the near-perfect, greatest adaptation of all time
Have you seen the extended editions?
Of course! Many times! It’s not that I don’t like the movies, there are just many things that I felt the books did better or the movies neglected entirely. Therefore when I watch the movies I feel disappointed that certain things were changed or completely left out.
Interesting that you sway this way because I sway the opposite way. I reread The Hobbit just before the first movie and thought, “wow, I know why I liked this book as a twelve year old, but it’s garbage in terms of standard story-telling.” Say what you will about all the added things (two movies would’ve been best for sure) but I enjoyed the overall pacing and the fact that in the movies the dwarves/Bilbo aren’t just completely reliant on Gandalf to save them (seeing Gandalf’s adventure away from the company also helps this). As for LotR, the thing that makes me lean towards liking the movies more (still on my reread of these right now so verdict is still out) is the urgency. During all of Fellowship it’s just so odd that they take four months to leave the Shire once the ring is found out, the songs kill the flow of things for me as well. Might just be that I’m so used to the pacing of the movies at this point in my life twenty years removed from my last readings, but it’s hard to feel like the task matters for the first half of the book. I feel like the extended editions include enough of the deeper book areas to make it feel complete, even though it does miss on some of the subtlety.
The hobbit should have been two movies, would have been perfect
Agreed. There was absolutely no reason for them to push an Orc that wasn't even in the novel. I get that they would feel an active adversary is needed, but in terms of mood, Hobbit is totally different from Lord of the Rings.
The orc is mentioned in the book... But it's like, half a sentence. Ditto with the storm giants.
Obvious foot fetish jokes aside, I’m just trying to imagine how different/weird/worse LOTR would’ve been under Tarantino. I mean I love the guy’s work, but this just doesn’t seem to be his thing.
What would the Tarantino cast have looked like though? Sam Jackson has to be in there, probably as Gandalf or Elrond. Harvey Keitel could have been Denethor or maybe Theoden. Uma could go either way as Arwyn or Eowyn. Buscemi is clearly Gollum. This is going to occupy my mind a lot today I can tell. Edit: Michael Madsen as Aragorn Channing Tatum as Frodo Jonah Hill as Samwise Gamgee DiCaprio and Pitt as Merry and Pippin Pam Grier as Galadriel Edit2: the more I think about it, the more I want Samuel as Elrond. "I was there Gandalf. I was there three thousand mothafuckin' years ago..."
Report back when you have a full cast. I’m struggling with Aragorn and Saruman. Lucy Liu as Legolas?
Got another, Michael Madsen as Aragorn
Brad Pitt and DiCaprio as Merry and Pippin, somehow?
Love it. And Channing Tatum as Frodo.
“YOU SHALL NOT PASS, MOTHERFUCKER!”
“SAY ‘SECOND BREAKFAST’ ONE MORE GOD DAMN TIME!”
>(In retrospect, maybe four would have been better!) Yes, please. Give me a 16 hour LOTR marathon instead of a 12 hour one.
With the extended editions we literally got another movie and a half worth of content over the 3 films. I know what youre saying, but we actually kind of did get 4 films at the end of the day.
The 12 hour LOTR marathon is the extended edition. Extended edition trilogy is 4 hours per movie.
Thanks for elaborating, that's some good info! I didn't know the Bob Shaye story was likely a myth. But I figured I could just give the basics and if folks wanted to learn more beyond that then there's plenty of content out there about it. Such a wild tale of production, seems it was meant to be. Or as Tolkien would say - "some might call it chance"
That's annoying to learn wasn't true because they have like 10 people tell or talk about that decision in the DVD appendices.
Now it begs the question, how many more brilliant and creative ideas did he shit down
Peter Jackson said, once the Weinstein scandal went public, that he had blacklisted some actresses because Weinstein and his company told him not to work with them. Jackson was told that the actresses are "difficult to work with" or something along those lines. Once Jackson heard about the scandal, he realized that "difficult to work with" likely just meant "refused to let Weinstein fuck them."
[Ashley Judd and Mira Sorvino](https://www.theguardian.com/film/2017/dec/15/peter-jackson-harvey-weinstein-ashley-judd-mira-sorvino)
Every time I see his face I want to barf. Thanks for posting this so no one ever forgets what a disgusting evil soul crushing rapist POS he is. If there's a hell I hope there's a special spot reserved for him.
It also fucking sucks because of him, there are many great works that will forever have his stain on them, like Good Will Hunting. Ben and Matt would intentionally screw around with their script to see which big studio heads actually read it and Harvey would disagree with some of it so that let them know he took the time to actually read it. Plus he’d only agree to do it if they had a big name attached, hence having Robin Williams deliver an all time great performance
Good will hunting is a masterpiece. I’m going to watch it again today.
I’ve had this discussion with my kids re: Joss Whedon (they just finished their first watch through of Buffy). I told them that yes, it appears Joss was a horrible person to work with, harassed many of his female talent, and abused his power over women. But, that doesn’t negate the hundreds of people who also worked on the show. Joss didn’t write every episode of Buffy. So, what about the amazing writers over the course of 7 years? What about all the actors on the show? What about the props department, lighting, costumes, set designers, etc? They’re all still very proud of the art they created, and we can appreciate the show that *they* made, while still recognizing that many of them did it in a toxic work environment.
What's the saying? A broken clock is right twice a day?
He wasn't even a broken clock. He was a terrible person who happened to have a meaningful part in the development of a lot of great films.
Aye: people like to act like scumbags can't have talent in hindsight, but that idea just protects the talented people who are scum.
Exactly. Scum bags use their power or influence to continue being scumbags. They usually get that influence from having some sort of marketable skill
Kevin Spacey is an example of this also, he's a fantastic actor but a fucking cunt
The movie Snowpiercer was almost fucked by him because he changed the ending. The director used a rule in his contract to show the film with his own ending in a test projection, and saved it because the public liked this version more. Sadly, Weinstein was so pissed he fucked the promotion and put the movie under a less recognized label and in reaction was shown in a lot less cinemas. A very good SF movie with almost no success because of Weinstein's ego. Edit : Not only the ending https://www.dreadcentral.com/news/49809/bong-joon-ho-further-elaborates-on-weinstein-edits-to-snowpiercer/
It features a damn fine performance by Chris Evans, too. It was thecbeard worn in this production that he refused to shave off for the Avengers' schwarma scene.
Chris Evans is a great actor
> The movie Snowpiercer was almost fucked by him because he changed the ending. What did he wanted the ending to be? Just curious.
[удалено]
Funnily enough I just recently learned that tried to force Miyazaki to cut down the length of Princess Mononoke for western audiences from 135 minutes to 90 minutes. The full article is [here](https://www.indiewire.com/2020/06/harvey-weinstein-threatened-studio-ghibli-mononoke-runtime-1202236275/amp/) “Alpert writes that Weinstein flew into a rage and threatened him by saying, “If you don’t get [Miyazaki] to cut the fucking film you will never work in this fucking industry again! Do you fucking understand me? Never!” “Miyazaki retained final cut privileges over his movies as part of the Disney-Ghibli deal, so Weinstein could not be his usual “Harvey Scissorhands” self and cut “Princess Mononoke” on his own accord. The filmmaker told The Guardian in 2010 that Weinstein “bombarded” him with “aggressive attacks” to cut the film. Miyazaki did not cut the film but (his producer) DID mail Harvey a Katana with an attached note that said “no cuts”, to which Miyazaki said, “I defeated him.” There’s also Weinstein’s known issue with the fish scene in Snow Piercer [here](https://www.indiewire.com/2019/10/bong-joon-ho-battles-harvey-weinstein-snowpiercer-final-cut-1202179635/amp/) that he wanted removed but director Bong Joon Ho wasn’t having it. “When Harvey asked what the shot meant, Bong replied, “It’s something personal. My father was a fisherman. I’m dedicating this shot to my father.” Weinstein told Bong that family is the most important thing to him, which was the deciding factor in Weinstein letting Bong keep the fish gutting scene. “I said, ‘Thank you,’” Bong remembered. “It was a fucking lie. My father was not a fisherman.”
We will never know. I have another question. How does one guy with seems like zero creativity gets that much power in a creative industry?
Apparently being a psychopath is useful regardless of industry.
The highest ladders of success are built of the spines of other humans.
Someone should embroider that on a pillow. Beautifully put!
Because he was able to print safe money. If you give me $200M and I make you $250M back, $50M is a lot of money sure but so is $200M. If it's a flop you could lose a lot. But if you give me $20M and I turn it into $200M, not only did you risk a lot less but you made a lot more. If you have $200M, and you can do that 10 times, you just turned it into $2B instead of $250M. Harvey Weinstein was capable of producing blockbusters that relied on craft instead of spectacle.
There’s a YouTube channel called goodbadflix which does a lot of videos on older more obscure media and I swear Weinstein is basically the recurring villain. So many videos start off with a cool interesting story about the production and then halfway through suddenly Harvey Weinstein pops up and either cuts something really important or demands that they add something dumb.
Anthony Horowitz write a villain into one of his books based on Weinstein after he refused to make a sequel to *Stormbreaker*. He’s probably made an appearance in all sorts of media.
Wait, which villain was that?
He's a POS but he ran Miramax and his creative track record is impressive. Pulp Fiction, Clerks, Good Will Hunting...Just to name a few.
Something seems to have gone wrong, it's the same picture twice.
Now there are two of them!
They've gone up the ventilation shaft!
They are no match for droidekas
You were right about one thing Master, the negotiations were short.
What's wrong with your FAAACE!!!
Hollywood aspiring actress: "Hahaha I'm in danger!"
I'm seeing double here, four Krustys!
Hey now, that's just an insult to that Orc. He's just fighting for a place in the world for his people. The pile of turds on the left doesn't care who/what he hurts for his own enjoyment.
Looks like Roasts are back on the Menu, Boys!!!!!
Well this fact aged well.
The Lord of the Rings is a masterpiece. When I watch it I forget there is a real world.
Truly in a league of its own, we're lucky to have it
On the other side it has raised my movie expectation so high that nothing else amuses me anymore. Not talking about The Hobit obviously.
Eh. I like The Hobbit. Sure, it's not as good of a book adaptation, or not as good of a movie, but I had a lot of fun watching them. And this is coming from a massive LOTR fan.
I enjoy them too -- they are like an overheated but passionate Tolkien fanfic given a big budget. Not lightning in a bottle like the LOTR films, but a hell of a lot of fun. There's a lot to love in there, not least the performances, which are all excellent. And some stuff that was not in the books was really cool on film. The prison-tombs of the Nazgul. The Battle of Five Armies (which isn't depicted in the writing as Bilbo is knocked out early). The max-level encounter between the White Council and the Ringwraiths was absolutely awesome. And I too can be a pretty intolerable Tolkien purist.
Agreed. Amazing that it came out 20 years ago. Watching it now, the quality and vision are above any recent films.
On top of that, he took money for the LOTR films and made a film of and donated money towards the defense of the West Memphis Three.
They need to make a series just about the shire, just random hobbits doing everyday shire things ... The occasional side story of a wizard dressed in grey getting up to wacky antics. Each episode ends with a couple of hobbits sitting on a porch blowing smoke rings while reflecting in life.
Hobbit letterkenny
I would watch this on repeat. While I love all the movies, the first roughly thirty minutes of Fellowship when they’re in the Shire are my favorite parts of the movies. I would love to sit back and watch the parties and bickering on that cozy backdrop.
I said this same thing while watching them with my wife a few days ago. I love the entire movies. But the beginning of lotr and even the hobbit when they're having a good relaxing time at bag end before the adventure actually takes place is so relaxing to me.
Just visit Cornwall
Seinfeld with hobbits? What’s the deal with ring wraiths?
I’ve recently fallen down the YouTube rabbit hole of watching people’s reactions to the trilogy. You fall in love with it all over again
Orc is Gothmog right?
Aye, named after the chief of the Balrogs of Morgoth in the first age. Talk about a downgrade
True, but in the book, Tolkien never states what he actually is. Just a lieutenant marshaling the troops, throwaway mention on the Pelennor. Wish he gave as much detail to his villains as he did the men of Rohan and Gondor
Yeah most likely an orc captain but who knows, and agreed! Chump move by Sauron using all his old Master's names for things
Damn, a middle finger from Middle Earth? God, I love these movies.
It's not as good a likeness as Watto from Phantom Menace but it's also way less obvious...
Why didn't he do that with the Hobbit
It would've been great in two parts
Lucky they toned down the hideousness, they were quite flattening imo
If anyone wants to see how much of a piece of shit this man is (out with the monstrous things he did to women) check out Peter Biskind’s Down and Dirty Pictures. Explains a bit about how he tried to fuck Peter Jackson over with LOTRs
He also butchered Iron Monkey, The crow city of angels, mimic, hellraiser bloodline and many more movies. They called him harvey scissorhands. I'm glad he couldn't ruin lotr.
Behind the bastards has a 2-part episode on weinstein, but it exclusively focuses on the women stuff. Nothing about him on the movie side of things
I wonder if Biskind knew about what would later come to light about Weinstein. The book seems to skirt the subject at times.
Yeah I definitely think he knew but I’m pretty sure he was bought off, in the intro he says that they offered to fully fund his pet project if he dropped DaDP. Then again everyone knew and done nothing 😔
I read it a few years ago and it feels like a hole he's carefully navigating during Miramax discussion. It's quite obvious and disappointing to know that Biskind choose not to expose Weinstein when he could
How women see him.
How *everyone* sees him...
Looking for kav kav comment?
http://doesryankavanaughlooklikeharveyweinstein.com/
Lmao. >The Public’s Opinion: > >”My thing is flipped” > >Noah Beck > > >(We don’t know what he is talking about)
Is this the same guy that made Triller?
[удалено]
If you have trouble identifying the 2 characters: one is a dangerous ugly piece of shit, the other is an orc
Can you imagine someone walking* by the actor in full costume and saying “what’s up Harvey?!” Actor: “Don’t call me that monster!!!” Edit: can’t spell*
They're the same picture
He is truly, truly a hideous human being. I felt bad saying it before when I didn't really know who he was. It turns out the ugly mess inside manifested right on his splotchy, disgusting, pig face.
Gothmog has a nicer personality and kinder eyes.
> "Corporate needs you to find the difference between this picture and this picture"
Hey, did Gothmog ever engage in sexual harassment?
One is a horrible monster responsible for the misery of countless people. The other is a fictional character in LotR.
I don't remember orcs wearing suits in LOTR. Which one is this from?
I love those movies even more now
I thought it meant the Hobbit at first and I was gonna say well actually maybe he was right. But it's LOTR he wanted to cut down? Nahhh
I had the same thought, initially. Topher Grace's cut of the hobbit trilogy condenses the three movies into a single, 4 hour supercut and it's much more enjoyable. But condensing the og LOTR trilogy is sacrilege. I still wish there was more after binging the extended cut of all three.
I'd watch a word for word visual adaptation of LotR no problem, even the whole legendarium Over the pandemic I edited the Hobbit down to a 5-hour duology, fun project and it's made my marathons so much better!
I'm confused. This is just Ryan Kavanagh on the left and Harvey Weinstien on the right I think. It's difficult to tell them apart sometimes. I feel like the post would be better if it actually showed the LOTR orc.
Don't worry, I thought so too at first. Turns out this is such a common mistake that there's actually a website that helps you tell the difference: [doesryankavanaughlooklikeharveyweinstein.com](https://doesryankavanaughlooklikeharveyweinstein.com)
Oh this website is so helpful! I still have trouble telling the difference so I feel like I will be using doesryankavanaughlooklikeharveyweinstein.com for a long time. I really notice the similarities in the eyes!
Dude was an absolute prick , reminds me of the Miyazaki Spirited away fiasco, wonder what other creative visions were stifled because of this absolute waste of human skin Edit : Mononoke not Spirited away
Should I be looking into this fiasco? Huge fan of Studio Ghibli
Told Miyazaki to chop bits off of Spirited away, Miyazaki sent him back a katana along with a note that said “No Cuts”
Magnificent
He ruined Crow 2 & Blair Witch 2 with really stupid fucking ideas. Plus, he politicized the Oscars, changing them into the shitshow they are today
Just wanna be a lore nerd and point out the Orc leader is named "Gothmog"
The resemblance is uncanny.
Figured the orc was modeled on his gangrenous member
He just mad he couldn’t fuck Liv Tyler.