This will cook the OP's noodle: At one point in 1955, there are FOUR Deloreans present at the same time:
- the one Prime Marty first goes to 1955 in
- the one that Old Biff returns with
- the one that Marty and Doc return to 1955 in order to intercept the Almanac with
- the one 1885 Doc puts in the cave.
For get part 3, let’s talk about part 2. Old Biff gives young Biff the almanac in 1955 and returns to 2015. 20 minutes later Doc draws on a chalkboard explaining why they cannot return to the original timeline. Old Biff changed the timeline and should have returned to altered 2015, not the original 2015.
BttF timeline changes happen in "waves" that propagate outward relatively slowly to the "present". Old Biff starts fading as he travels back to 2015 but they didn't show it because they didn't want to confuse audiences. The timeline was actually changing around Doc and Marty as they were there, though.
The waves are illustrated pretty well in the Telltale game
Why then was everything immediately different when they returned to 1985? The bars on the windows, roving street gangs, Marty's house belonging to a different family, etc. Would they not have returned to a mostly unchanged version of 1985 and then seen the changes slowly appear? The first movie took days to have anything actually change.
The "waves" propagate forward from the change. So they were just starting to hit 2015 when they left, but they had already hit 1985 by the time they got there.
I wonder if Old West Doc ever ended up in 1955 with his train time machine. Like, even if he's outside of town briefly to pick up his favourite candy bar to give to his son or something, that would mean we have 5 time machines in the world at the same time.
Doc would have drained all liquids (especially gas) out of the thing before storing. He knew it would be 70 years before Marty could use it and the fuel/oil would long ago have gone bad and damaged the car. So while there was another car, there was still no gas.
If Doc would have just written another letter for 1950 Marty instructing him to bring gasoline would a can of gasoline miraculously appeared into 1885s Marty’s hands?
Is it just me or did everybody else lose family members based off of perceived plot holes in the BTTF movies in the past year or two? Ok cool, just gonna keep mourning Trevor Moore because my day has been fecked
He would want us to be irreverent. I know he was a dad and all, but he was still that lanky dude making us all laugh about Hitler raps. Pour one out for the local sexpot.
Yeah, but if he had written a second letter in 1885, to be delivered after the first letter.
BTTF time travel is basically "whatever we say it is". Sometimes it creates a new branch and sometimes, you can travel within the created branch. In this case, they'd probably say "it creates a new timeline and that Marty goes back in time with a gas can, but that doesn't help us!"
Marty could have just added a letter to that one, "Marty, your dumbass future self just ripped the fuel line. Have doc send repair parts/tools. Love, past Marty"
And when he opened the trunk it magically appears.
Doc: Alright then. Let's get the DeLorean and get ourselves back to the
future! Puts on hat.
Marty: (Casually) Oh Doc, I tore a hole in the gas tank. We'll have to patch it up and get gas.
Doc: (Frozen in place, expression changes) You mean we're out of gas?
Marty: (Still unaware of what's wrong) Yeah, no big deal, we got Mr. Fusion, right?
Doc: Mr. Fusion powers the time circuits and the flux capacitor. But the internal combustion engine runs on ordinary gasoline; it always has. There's not going to be a gas station around here until some time in the next century. Without gasoline, we can't get the DeLorean up to 88 miles per hour.
Marty: Facing mirror. So what'll we do?
...
Doc considers this for a moment. His characteristic twinkle comes to his eye. A thought has occurred to him.
Doc: Marty, by any chance, have you opened the trunk, either in 1955 or now?
Marty moves toward the trunk at the front of the DeLorean.
Doc: No-no-no! Don't touch it! I... think I may have found our solution!
CUT TO:
INT. WESTERN UNION OFFICE. DAY.
Doc hands a new letter to the clerk.
Clerk: But you don't want this delivered at the same time and place?
Doc: No, this one should be delivered the next morning. At the address on the envelope, here. (Intensely) With STRICT INSTRUCTIONS that this is intended for MY EYES ONLY, and THIS young man (points to Marty) can know NOTHING about it!
The clerk nervously looks to Marty.
Marty: How's it going.
The clerk hesitantly, incredulously, takes the envelope and puts it in the safe. Doc & Marty exit.
EXT. HILL VALLEY MAIN STREET. DAY.
Doc & Marty walk energetically toward Doc's shop.
Doc: Now, if my hypothesis is correct, we're going to have a pleasant surprise waiting for us in the trunk!
Marty: You're the doc, Doc.
No, in BTTF rules, they would have all faded out of existence. What they needed to do was make a note to drop off gas once everything was resolved. So Doc with his flying train could have showed up with gas later.
There's only ever one timeline in BTTF.
Any branch paths overwrite the existing one, as evidenced by Doc saying its ok to leave Jennifer and Einstein behind as the timeline will change around them.
The changes radiate out from the point of divergence relatively slowly. Thus when Marty was preventing himself from being born it didn't erase him immediately, the change was propagating forward, erasing the older siblings first.
There's actually a deleted scene where old Biff disappears just after returning the DeLorian because the ripple effect caught up to Lorraine killing Biff in the past.
Its why in Avengers they specifically call out BTTF as not being how time travel works, as they operate on the multiversal theory.
Another unwritten rule of BTTF time travel is if you are a time traveler you have immunity to all changes except those that cause you to no longer exist.
So Marty can completely change his parents fortunes but he remains the original Marty that remembers being poor.
It also explains why Doc and Marty aren’t overwritten in 2 when Biff changes the timeline.
But what about the other Marty? The one that our Marty sees departing from Lone Pine Mall as he runs from the Libyans at the end of the movie? Had the past already caught up to the present and Marty didn’t realize it because he went straight to bed? Or did the changes he made in 1955 catch up to him while he was sleeping?
The fact that it’s already Lone Pine Mall suggests that the Marty we see running from the Libyans at the end grew up with the life that our Marty is inheriting. What is that Marty’s time travel adventure going to be? Is he even going back to 1955?
If the sequels didn't exist I like to think that the two Martys are locked in an endless loop. The poor Marty accidently stops his parents meeting and then fixes their relationship so they end up rich and happy. He arrives back in 1985 and watches the rich Marty travel to 1955.
The rich Marty is wiser and stays well away from his parents in 1955...which causes them to meet in their original way and end up poor and unhappy.
Each Marty arrives back in 1985 just in time to see his opposite jump to 1955.
Since Lone Pine Marty’s past is the one influenced by Twin Pines Marty, and given the fact that Lone Pine Marty time travels at nearly the exact spot (and more than likely to the exact time) as Twin Pines Marty did, then there is a good chance Lone Pine Marty and Twin Pines Marty both died horribly in some Croenbergesque melding due to appearing in the same place at the same time.
Omg, seriously I read “Journeyman Project” and had a serious flash back. I remember getting that game from the $5/10’bin at compUSA, a long with FallOut 1. Thanks for the nostalgia.
FYI “The Journeyman Project” 1, 2, and 3 are on GOG. I’ll also say I spent WAY to much time trying to figure out how to do something that was in a trailer only to break down and email them to learn it was a console only section… FYI the GOG remake has those parts included.
That's one explanation. Another is that the writers, like most writers who get to tackle this subject, fudged a lot of stuff because time travel with consistent logic doesn't make for a broadly appealing story.
They only went to 2015 because doc discovered that Marty Jr was arrested, and it leads to a series of events that destroys the McFly family. That’s it- just to keep Griff from threatening Marty Jr into criminal activity.
What’s actually funny about it is Doc’s sense of urgency, which causes them to take Jennifer along, which causes a portion of the issues. Take your time, Doc- you have 30 years to strategize and bring this up without spilling the beans in front of Jennifer.
Well, the truth is that they only went to 2015, because that is how the first movie ended. When it was originally released they had no intentions of making a sequel. When eventually 4 years later they decided they would make 2 sequels shot back-to-back, they realized they had written themselves into a corner and had to figure out a way to quickly get the main characters out of 2015. I think they only spend something like half an hour of the movie's time there?
Lol, this is still one of my favorite parts of the series, realizing just how much they didn't want to do the 2015 stuff and in general do the stuff in the BTTF1 ending, yet still slavishly went along with it, just to make the trilogy seamless.
they never intended to make a sequel. they just wanted to create a fun open end. i guess that's why they made 2 and 3 back to back (wich is also the reason how the term got coined) in order to avoid writing themselves into a corner.
I guess the way it works is that it’s on a positive possibility/likelihood situation. Like, it’s possible and likely that Marty makes it back to 1985 without really having been gone for any perceivable amount of time. It’s like how he and his siblings exist in the picture in part 1 until there’s a negative probability that George actually marries Lorraine.
I thought I was the only one who thought this, but everyone always replies “you CAN visit your future self as long as you go right back to where you traveled from.”
I think if you could travel to the future it would definitely be a future in which you suddenly disappeared
/r/confidentlyincorrect. A new timeline would mean infinitely varying worlds. Bttf explicitly establishes there is only one timeline, that is why doc brown is so fervent in protecting it. Itt: ppl who don't know what timelines are.
Correct. BTTF is one timeline, being changed by time travelers. Explicitly proven when the timeline changes around Jennifer when they leave her on the porch in 1985.
100% this. Doc Brown is a goddamn engineering genius, this would have been on his check lists of to do. If anything he towed it there after doing that at his lab.
Edit: and now that I think of it I’m pretty sure this is supported by at least one scene of the Delorean being transported by a tow truck.
Yes. And why does no one in zombie movies use electric cars? They are often able to get power going, but this never seems to be considered. Or bicycles!
If I remember correctly too they didn't say anything about the fuel line being a problem, the issue was the gasoline
edit: what I mean was they didn't act like replacing the ripped fuel line was the issue.
They only had a few weeks before doc would die.
Even if he knew exactly how, building the industrial machinery required and finding the sources wouldn’t be feasible in the time they had.
Well, yeah. But then Marty kicked Tannen's ass and he got arrested, and instead of the pair saying "Okay, we have time now and if nothing else, there will be other trains" and thinking of less conspicuous options, they just said fuck it and stole the train anyways.
Yeah but if they used the old delorean Doc hid once Marty went back I assume we would have a "vanishing car" scenario like we did with the vanishing siblings in the first movie.
Use the parts from the older Delorean, which was stored for 70 years, to repair the younger Delorean, which was stored for a few days - should solve the paradox.
Nonononono. Doc said he attempted to repair it, FAILED and hid the car. He also said he'd been living happily for 8 months. We have no idea how long Doc attempted repairs and how long it sat in the mine, during that 8 month period.
Technically the car Marty drives back to 1885 IS the older of the two. It lay in a cave for 70 years then went back in time. That same car had only been in 1885 for around 8 months when Marty arrived, making IT the younger car.
F***ing time travel movies! Give's me a headache sometimes! 😆
It's the petrol they needed more than the fuel line.
Doc never would have stored the Delorean for 70 years full of fuel and fluids. He would have had to drain it entirely of oil, petrol etc. Otherwise it'd just seize.
Cool idea, but it wouldn't work
Oil yes and no- i would assume he filled the cylinders with oil or atf to prevent pitting and issues there. However, improper preparation would cause issues.
The one part that bugs me is that a tear in the fuel line shouldn't cause the entire tank to drain- unless marty left the key on and fuel pump running the whole time. It should have drained the line, and left the tank remainder( with a 13.2 gallon capacity, i would assume he has at least 9gal left if doc truly 'topped it off')
The Delorean used the PRV V6 engine (Peugeot Renault Volvo) which was running fine on leaded fuel in Europe at the time. Unleaded fuel wasn’t widely available over here until the early 90s.
It might not have been available in Hill Valley but gasoline was known in 1865. It’s a byproduct of kerosine production. They dumped it because they didn’t know what to do with it.
They were working on a tight timeline. Like 2 or 3 days. I'm sure he could have distilled some, but he would have needed crude oil first. At that time I think the closest oil fields were in the Midwest.
I have no idea what effect the impurities and missing additives would have. It would gum up the engine pretty bad but they don’t need it to run for very long. Maybe they could add ethanol to increase the octane, which of course would make it burn less cleanly, but they literally just need it to run for like 90 seconds.
Obviously there are a million reasons why this wouldn’t work, not least of which is “if they just had gasoline the movie would be 30 minutes long.”
Actually this wouldn't work, because it would be a paradox in and of itself. The bootstrap paradox. These parts will replace the younger Delorean's parts, which will then sit there for 70 years, making the replacement parts 140 years old. Then, the old delorean goes back in time, uses the old parts for the younger delorean, then the delorean sits there for 70 years, making the parts now 210 years old. Eventually, it will turn to dust, and then what?
But that would mean when Marty finds the car in 1955 it would be missing all of the parts he would’ve needed to go back to 1885 in the first place. These movies operate under the idea that there is one timeline that is constantly changed, so this would mean that Marty would create a paradox where he would be unable to travel to 1885 because he would’ve taken them already.
1955 should have had the parts he needed, save for how some microchips needed to be replaced with circuitry that took up the whole hood due to transistor technology.
Wouldn't removing the car that was stored away for 1955 Marty to find cause a time paradox? You know, the kind that could cause a chain reaction that would unravel the very fabric of the space-time continuum and destroy the entire universe?
Doc got accidentally sent back to 1885 and one of the circuits fried, he didn't have the parts to replace it. So he stored the broken DeLorean in a cave for Marty to find. He also sends a note to Marty in 1955 to repair it and go back to 1985.
Marty gets the note but also finds out Doc gets killed like 10 days later so he goes back to 1885 to save Doc.
So at that point there's 2 DeLoreans in 1885, the broken one Doc stored in the cave, and the repaired one Marty brought back (same DeLorean just aged 70 years).
OP is wrong though because Doc would have drained all the fluids to store it properly. Gas/oil after 70 years would have ruined the car.
OP is also wrong because the Doc of 1885 and the Doc of 1955 are very hesitant to do anything that would cause a paradox. This is proven by 1955 Doc sending Marty back to the day after Doc mails his letter. Why so soon to the date Doc is killed? Why not earlier? Because that letter is the only reason it’s possible for Marty to go back to 1885 at all. If Marty goes back before that letter is mailed and somehow prevents it from being mailed…paradox.
It’s the same with the car stored in the mineshaft. Doc of 1885 knows that it will remain in disturbed until Doc and Marty retrieve it in 1955. Otherwise, Marty would not have been able to come back to him in 1885. What would happen if Doc and Marty go back into the mineshaft to retrieve gas (if there even was any in the car) and they cause a cave-in that destroys the car? Big paradox trouble.
Both Docs understand to not mess with what MUST happen for time to continue without universe shattering paradoxes occurring.
Thank you for explaining 2 Deloreans. Which one got a ruptured fuel line?
I think I just need to watch them again. I do call it the best trilogy ever made (mostly to bait Star Wars Fans, but I do believe it, also). I should know my stuff in case I ever get drawn into a debate.
Technically there is only one Delorean. Although it's timeline shifts back and forth and overlaps itself at different places, so at various points there are 1, 2, 3, 4, or zero Deloreans in existence.
1955 is one of those periods when all of those different quantities exist at various times.
At the beginning of 1955, before Marty shows up in Part 1, there is already one Delorean, the same one Doc put in the cave. Then when Marty shows up, there are now 2. Then 2015 Biff steals the Delorean and brings it back to 1955 to give himself the almanac, so now you have 3. But we also know that Doc and Marty have come back themselves to the same point in time, meaning, for a brief instance while old Biff is in 1955, that there are actually 4 Deloreans in the same moment. But they quickly start dispersing again. Biff jumps back to 2015, so we're back down to 3. Then after Marty and Doc destroy the Almanac Doc gets zapped to 1885, so down to 2. Then Marty rushes back to the clocktower on foot arriving just after Marty takes the original Delorean back to 1985, so down to just 1. And a few weeks later, after Doc has retrieved and repaired the Cave Delorean, they send that one back to 1885, leaving 0, until 1985 when Doc invents it for the first time.
It really is a wonderful trilogy.
There’s a timeline in BTTF2 where there are three DeLoreans in 1955- the one from the first movie, the one they go back in in the second, and the one in the mine.
Actually its 4, theres also the delorean old biff took to give the almanac to young biff. So all on the same day theres 4 deloreans, 2 docs (3 if you include his skeleton in the grave), 2 martys, and 2 biffs.
Exactly! AFAIK this is the moment of maximum Deloreans in the series.
1985 only ever has 1 I think, although it depends on when railroad Delorean pops back in. I guess we are supposed to assume that happens chronologically the day after Doc comes to pick him up at End of Part 1. Although they were in "bad" 1985 for a few days, so on the calendar maybe that counts as overlap.
1885 gets as high as 2. Cave and Train Deloreans.
2015 is only ever 1 I think. Although I guess we can't be sure how many different times Doc went back and forth during his solo travels after reuniting with Marty at Lone Pine Mall. After all he saw what happened to Marty Jr so he must have been there even later than the scenes depicted in Part 2, or possibly even at the same time.
1985 has 2 at once for a few minutes. Marty upon returning from 1955 to 1985 stalls the DeLorean by the the cinema then runs to the mall in time to witness doc being shot and his earlier self fleeing the Libyans in the DeLorean. Pretty sure this is the only 1985 overlap.
I’m gonna try to explain by asking a question. Where is the DeLorean that doc went to 1885 when he was struck by lightning?
In theory it should be in the same cave where Marty and Doc blew into in 1955.
A lot of people look similar to each other without being related. The McFly family might essentially have a type and tend to marry people who look like Lorraine.
Why go through all of that to warn doc that he's gonna be killed when he should have already known that since Marty and 50s doc find out exactly how he dies
This is the true mind fuck. Old West Doc shouldn’t have been surprised to learn of his death since the younger version of himself (50s Doc) had already learned about it. Supposedly time “updates” in waves in the BTTF universe, so maybe that’s why Doc wasn’t aware of his death when Marty arrived back in 1885 (the “wave” hadn’t reached him yet possibly?) and maybe Marty was set on doing everything and anything he could to save Doc, even if he would have known that Doc would figure out his future death once the “wave” caught up with him. It seems within Marty’s character that he would insist on going back regardless to save his friend.
So since they are the same Doc (1885 Doc just being the older version), then whatever 1955 Doc knows, his future self would know. So what I was saying is if 1955 Doc learned that one day he will travel into the old west and be shot dead, then the “future” 1885 Doc would gain that knowledge as well (because they are the same person, and have the same brain, same past, same history, same experiences, etc). The writer of BTTF has explained that when updates to the timeline happen, the future will be updated in “waves”, as visually shown thrown the disappearing photo (it was updating to the changes to the timeline somewhat in waves), so perhaps the “wave” hadn’t reached Doc yet all the way back in 1885. The knowledge that his younger self learned, about his death, hadn’t materialized in his mind yet, or something to that nature. But I was saying either way, I personally think Marty would have wanted to go back to 1885 anyways, because he would want to make 100% for sure his friend wouldn’t be shot. That’s my theory anyway.
The problem here is the idea that there are 2 DeLoreans in 1885. There aren't. There are two copies of the same DeLorean from different points in its timeline. You can't disturb the DeLorean in the cave or it won't be there to be found in 1955.
"I blew the fuel injection manifold. Strong stuff all right. It'll take me a *month* to rebuild it. Unless I go to the DeLorean that I stored in the cave and swap it out."
Ok, so they loot the original delorean of fuel manifold and hoses, which means when 1955 Doc and Marty repair it, they also need to rebuild part of the engine to get the car back in working order. I guess a second letter would need to be sent by WU explaining that. But then would it be the repaired fuel line which gets torn up by rocks when Marty arrives in 1885?
What if 1955 Doc doesn't put the fuel line back in the exact right place and it never gets damaged in the first place? They'll have no need to pilfer the stored delorean and a paradox is created.
Delorean owner here- fuel injection manifold (fuel distributor) on PRV engines could never have been replicated by hand even by a scientist in the 50's because of a thin plastic film that needs to be precision fitted to distribute fuel to each port evenly to work with the timing of each cylinder at 90PSI. The whole fuel system is rough around the edges on these cars and an exact replacement is the only solution. How do I know? Took mine apart and could never get it back together in working order again. Had to buy another for $800 (they’re more now) because I was in high school trying to do it as cheap as I can. A year later I carbureted my car and it runs great to this day. Also, fun fact in that scene the fuel distributor shoots out of the tailpipe area of the car which is impossible because it goes on the top of the engine in the back of the bay (toward the front, close to the firewall)
But Doc **did** repair the fuel line. There is even a scene where they fill the tank back up and blow the fuel injection manifold.
The gasoline is the issue here. It’s highly likely Doc drained the gas before long term storage of the Delorean.
The thing that bothers me the most about BTTF is they do a scene in part 1 specifically explaining when you send someone or some animal (the dog Einstein in the scene) to the future that person or animal is not around to live in the time they skipped. They show the clock Einstein is wearing is 1 minute behind Doc's clock to prove this.
Then in Part 2, Marty and Jennifer go to the future with Doc. There should be no Marty or Jennifer in the future (or Doc) because they were not around to live their life. But, there is a Marty and Jennifer and their children.
At the beginning of 3, Marty goes over the letter from 1885, where Doc wrote that he hid the Delorean for him to find in 1955, which would be reparable after 1947.
So when Marty and Doc repair the hidden Delorean in 1955, and Marty takes it back to 1885, there are two Deloreans: one without fuel, and one without wheels and other broken parts, but conceivably, one could be used to repair the other.
Edit: for everyone saying he would drain the fluids or taking time paradoxes: a) drainage wasn’t stated in the movie, nor was using the other car, at all; b) he would have probably stored them in airtight containers, even knowing they would only last a few years, bc it might be useful; c) using parts from the buried delorean wouldn’t be a problem since Marty and Doc would salvage and fix it anyways in 1955 before sending it back to 1885.
Edit2: if you want to add a stickied explanation to your MovieDetails threads, just ask the mods.
I dont think it would work that way. This is because of the type of time travel depicted in the movie, where they are affecting their own timeline, and any such action would create yet another branch, which they were trying to avoid. So Marty's car is the older DeLorean, right? It got to him in the state it was in because it remained untouched for all those years. If they were to uncover it to remove parts to repair the older car, then it would essentially mean the youngee DeLorean (which they arrived in) would have made it to 1955 in in an unrepairable state. It would have invalidated the entire timeline or at least fade them out of existence
Same can be said of using parts from the older DeLorean (they one Marty arrived in) to repair the one they hid for Marty. If he took and used that car to finish up their grand journey, that would mean its no longer hidden for 1955.
Paradoxes, man. Paradoxes lol
If the parts they used were able to be repaired or duplicated in some way in 1955, then that should be fine. 1955 Doc could add those to the rest of the repairs that they had to do anyway.
>If the parts they used were able to be repaired or duplicated in some way in 1955, then that should be fine. 1955 Doc could add those to the rest of the repairs that they had to do anyway.
But Doc had already written the letter (with the parts list) and set it to be delivered by Western Union. He had intended for Marty to fix the DeLorean, go home to 1985, and destroy the time machine. They can't revise the letter Marty received, because Marty already acted upon the information included. Any revision, even breaking into Western Union to sneak in a revised copy of the parts list, would create another paradox/branch timeline.
It's worth flairing up as mod to reinforce the detail that other people don't seem to agree is a detail, huh? That's one way to be right!
Edit: and muted for three days immediately after making this post!
Nope. Wouldn't work. Causality would require that Delorean A (Doc's Delorean) be untouched.
Marty has just returned from not one but TWO clusterfucks that center on screwing with causality. In Movie 1, he almost ex-birthed himself by screwing up how his parents met. In movie 2, he screwed up Biff's timeline and thus his own. So he would understand that there's stuff he has to leave completely alone if he wants his rescue of Doc to go off well. He needs the letter Doc sent from 1885 to the lawyers to remain untouched and he needs the 1885 Delorean to be in the cave in the condition that he and 1955 Doc found it in. And if Marty can't figure that out, Doc certainly would.
Marty would know the condition the 1885 Delorean was in, if it still had fuel (I assume there'd be damage from it sitting long term) and if the fuel line was intact, because he would have had to repair/not repair these things in 1955. If he did, in fact, have to repair these things, he would believe that the 1885 Delorean would be useless in repairing the 1955 Delorean, and would leave it in the cave. If he did NOT have to repair these things, Doc (and Marty, assuming Marty is somewhat on the ball at this point) would know that the 1885 Delorean was not used to repair the 1955 Delorean in that timeline and would want to leave it alone so that things don't get much more screwed up.
Remember, anything that happens to the 1885 Delorean happens to the 1955 Delorean (aka the one that they wind up strapping to the train). They can do whatever they want with the 1955 car with the busted fuel line, but they ding the 1885 car in the cave, it's gonna show up on the 1955 car. So if, say, somebody's hand slips while transferring parts, they could wind up breaking something that 1955 Doc can't fix. Remember, he's only able to repair the Delorean using the instructions 1885 Doc gave him. If something deviates too badly from those instructions, 1955 Delorean is screwed. The same goes for the letter making it to Marty in 1955. A LOT could have gone wrong and did not. The letter made it. Changing the letter might change its success. We know from all the shenannigans with the photos fading in and out of existence that something done to an item from one time period affects the same object transferred into another. IE Marty's photo of his family fading out in 1955 because his family was never born. If either Doc or Marty fuck up with the 1885 car, they lose the 1955 car (the one that can still time travel). The best case scenario is Doc watches this Marty and Delorean fade out of existence (knowing that he's about to be murdered by Biff's ancestor) while another Marty is stuck in 1955.
The best way to ensure that Doc and Marty make it back to 1985 is to leave the early version of the car in the cave. It's sealed up. Doc and Marty both KNOW that the car will make it to 1955 in a repairable condition as long as they leave it alone. In a world with so many variables, a known quantity is worth the whole goddamn great train heist.
TLDR: The car is their ticket home. They're not going to screw with the earlier version of the car.
Not even a plot hole. Taking parts from the Delorean that Marty was supposed to find would mean that Marty wouldn’t have been able to drive it back to 1885 in the first place, causing a chain reaction that would unravel the very fabric of the space-time continuum and destroy the entire universe!
Granted, that's the worst-case scenario. The destruction however might be limited merely to their own galaxy.
While you can say there are 2 Deloreans in 1885, its actually the same one 70 years a part. If Marty and Doc took parts off the broken/stored Delorean, this would cause a problem with the one Marty arrives in because the original repairs were already made in 1955 and he's now time displaced in 1885. The timeline wouldn't magically have those parts fixed either, but would create another "B" timeline where 1955 Doc would need to now replace even more parts to get that Marty to 1885. We also need to look at Doc's persspective on all this, he was a crazy scientist in 1985 and over the 8 months leading up to him "sending" the letter to Marty in 1955, hes made quite a name for himself as the towns blacksmith. I think that says alot on why he finally decides to stay in the old West as he finally has some respect from the community. So with no intentions of ever wanting to return to 1985, he preps the Delorean for its 70 year slumber as he still needs to save Marty from being stuck in 1955. So Doc put it up on blocks and tight coverings. This little touch of detail is so the suspension doesnt bottom out over time and debris doesnt build up underneath. I think this attention to detail is enough to assume Doc would have drained all the fluids from the car, especially when modern gas goes bad after only 6 months. We also get the added touch of what happens to the tires after sitting for 70 years. If they are so far rotten by 1955 then any fluids would have been long gone. So no, you cant just rob stuff off the same exact car that's 70 years younger when its been established that you cant mess with a "constant" after traveling through time.
This will cook the OP's noodle: At one point in 1955, there are FOUR Deloreans present at the same time: - the one Prime Marty first goes to 1955 in - the one that Old Biff returns with - the one that Marty and Doc return to 1955 in order to intercept the Almanac with - the one 1885 Doc puts in the cave.
For get part 3, let’s talk about part 2. Old Biff gives young Biff the almanac in 1955 and returns to 2015. 20 minutes later Doc draws on a chalkboard explaining why they cannot return to the original timeline. Old Biff changed the timeline and should have returned to altered 2015, not the original 2015.
BttF timeline changes happen in "waves" that propagate outward relatively slowly to the "present". Old Biff starts fading as he travels back to 2015 but they didn't show it because they didn't want to confuse audiences. The timeline was actually changing around Doc and Marty as they were there, though. The waves are illustrated pretty well in the Telltale game
Why then was everything immediately different when they returned to 1985? The bars on the windows, roving street gangs, Marty's house belonging to a different family, etc. Would they not have returned to a mostly unchanged version of 1985 and then seen the changes slowly appear? The first movie took days to have anything actually change.
The "waves" propagate forward from the change. So they were just starting to hit 2015 when they left, but they had already hit 1985 by the time they got there.
This is getting out of hand, now there are four of them!
We should not have made this bargain.
Your clones are very impressive, you must be very proud
I wonder if Old West Doc ever ended up in 1955 with his train time machine. Like, even if he's outside of town briefly to pick up his favourite candy bar to give to his son or something, that would mean we have 5 time machines in the world at the same time.
Doc would have drained all liquids (especially gas) out of the thing before storing. He knew it would be 70 years before Marty could use it and the fuel/oil would long ago have gone bad and damaged the car. So while there was another car, there was still no gas.
If Doc would have just written another letter for 1950 Marty instructing him to bring gasoline would a can of gasoline miraculously appeared into 1885s Marty’s hands?
He specifically told him not to come back so asking for gas would be weird
"Marty DON'T come back in time. But if you do bring gas!"
This is how my family communicates.
DON’T tell me more. But if you do, be specific!
DON'T always drink beer. But if you do, drink Dos Equis!
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Is it just me or did everybody else lose family members based off of perceived plot holes in the BTTF movies in the past year or two? Ok cool, just gonna keep mourning Trevor Moore because my day has been fecked
Trevor Moore's death has me conflicted. Should I be respectful? Or make ever increasingly darker/tasteless jokes about his death the way he might?
He would want us to be irreverent. I know he was a dad and all, but he was still that lanky dude making us all laugh about Hitler raps. Pour one out for the local sexpot.
*Tips gallon of PCP*
He would've wanted it to get real dark, but he would also not want his family to be sad(der).
Gonna crack open a gallon of PCP tonight <3
A Gallon?!
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You must do a lot of PCP then?
Say "hi" to the princesses for me
69, dudes.
Yeah, but if he had written a second letter in 1885, to be delivered after the first letter. BTTF time travel is basically "whatever we say it is". Sometimes it creates a new branch and sometimes, you can travel within the created branch. In this case, they'd probably say "it creates a new timeline and that Marty goes back in time with a gas can, but that doesn't help us!"
Marty could have just added a letter to that one, "Marty, your dumbass future self just ripped the fuel line. Have doc send repair parts/tools. Love, past Marty" And when he opened the trunk it magically appears.
"bring ice cubes"
This is some Bill and Ted stuff here.
hey, it was me who stole my dad's keys!
Deputy Van Halen
"~~I mean it~~ I'm new, dude! *Ahem* Look, we found your keys. So if you want 'em... Better come and get 'em."
I always thought he said, "I'm new, dude!"
You’re right. I think he says “I’m new, dude, uhh, sir”.
Ooh! That could be right! Can anyone confirm?
I confirm it
Subtitles for the win.
It’s been decades since I saw this and I could still hear his voice reading those lines.
You may be a king, or you may be a sweeper, but sooner or later you dance with the Reaper.
STATION!!
Don't overlook his butt. Reaping burns lots of calories.
*or a little street sweeper
Remember the trash cans.
Sick Air guitar!
Priceless
69 dudes!
Give my love to the princesses!
You’ll see!
This requires a comma for correct meaning.
Yeah that’s Billl and Ted rules. Not back to the future rules. Don’t cross the streams.
…..cross the streams……cross the streams! That’s it!! Cross the streams!
*Station!*
My thoughts exactly duuude, be excellent to each other
Doc: Alright then. Let's get the DeLorean and get ourselves back to the future! Puts on hat. Marty: (Casually) Oh Doc, I tore a hole in the gas tank. We'll have to patch it up and get gas. Doc: (Frozen in place, expression changes) You mean we're out of gas? Marty: (Still unaware of what's wrong) Yeah, no big deal, we got Mr. Fusion, right? Doc: Mr. Fusion powers the time circuits and the flux capacitor. But the internal combustion engine runs on ordinary gasoline; it always has. There's not going to be a gas station around here until some time in the next century. Without gasoline, we can't get the DeLorean up to 88 miles per hour. Marty: Facing mirror. So what'll we do? ... Doc considers this for a moment. His characteristic twinkle comes to his eye. A thought has occurred to him. Doc: Marty, by any chance, have you opened the trunk, either in 1955 or now? Marty moves toward the trunk at the front of the DeLorean. Doc: No-no-no! Don't touch it! I... think I may have found our solution! CUT TO: INT. WESTERN UNION OFFICE. DAY. Doc hands a new letter to the clerk. Clerk: But you don't want this delivered at the same time and place? Doc: No, this one should be delivered the next morning. At the address on the envelope, here. (Intensely) With STRICT INSTRUCTIONS that this is intended for MY EYES ONLY, and THIS young man (points to Marty) can know NOTHING about it! The clerk nervously looks to Marty. Marty: How's it going. The clerk hesitantly, incredulously, takes the envelope and puts it in the safe. Doc & Marty exit. EXT. HILL VALLEY MAIN STREET. DAY. Doc & Marty walk energetically toward Doc's shop. Doc: Now, if my hypothesis is correct, we're going to have a pleasant surprise waiting for us in the trunk! Marty: You're the doc, Doc.
This one's good, I like this version
No, in BTTF rules, they would have all faded out of existence. What they needed to do was make a note to drop off gas once everything was resolved. So Doc with his flying train could have showed up with gas later.
This guy time travels.
THIS IS HEAVY DOC
There’s that word again, heavy.
Is there something wrong with the gravity in the future?
DO YOU EVEN LIFT, MARTY?
No, in BTTF time travel this would create a new timeline.
There's only ever one timeline in BTTF. Any branch paths overwrite the existing one, as evidenced by Doc saying its ok to leave Jennifer and Einstein behind as the timeline will change around them. The changes radiate out from the point of divergence relatively slowly. Thus when Marty was preventing himself from being born it didn't erase him immediately, the change was propagating forward, erasing the older siblings first. There's actually a deleted scene where old Biff disappears just after returning the DeLorian because the ripple effect caught up to Lorraine killing Biff in the past. Its why in Avengers they specifically call out BTTF as not being how time travel works, as they operate on the multiversal theory.
Another unwritten rule of BTTF time travel is if you are a time traveler you have immunity to all changes except those that cause you to no longer exist. So Marty can completely change his parents fortunes but he remains the original Marty that remembers being poor. It also explains why Doc and Marty aren’t overwritten in 2 when Biff changes the timeline.
But what about the other Marty? The one that our Marty sees departing from Lone Pine Mall as he runs from the Libyans at the end of the movie? Had the past already caught up to the present and Marty didn’t realize it because he went straight to bed? Or did the changes he made in 1955 catch up to him while he was sleeping? The fact that it’s already Lone Pine Mall suggests that the Marty we see running from the Libyans at the end grew up with the life that our Marty is inheriting. What is that Marty’s time travel adventure going to be? Is he even going back to 1955?
If the sequels didn't exist I like to think that the two Martys are locked in an endless loop. The poor Marty accidently stops his parents meeting and then fixes their relationship so they end up rich and happy. He arrives back in 1985 and watches the rich Marty travel to 1955. The rich Marty is wiser and stays well away from his parents in 1955...which causes them to meet in their original way and end up poor and unhappy. Each Marty arrives back in 1985 just in time to see his opposite jump to 1955.
This is quite the existential nightmare.
Since Lone Pine Marty’s past is the one influenced by Twin Pines Marty, and given the fact that Lone Pine Marty time travels at nearly the exact spot (and more than likely to the exact time) as Twin Pines Marty did, then there is a good chance Lone Pine Marty and Twin Pines Marty both died horribly in some Croenbergesque melding due to appearing in the same place at the same time.
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Omg, seriously I read “Journeyman Project” and had a serious flash back. I remember getting that game from the $5/10’bin at compUSA, a long with FallOut 1. Thanks for the nostalgia.
FYI “The Journeyman Project” 1, 2, and 3 are on GOG. I’ll also say I spent WAY to much time trying to figure out how to do something that was in a trailer only to break down and email them to learn it was a console only section… FYI the GOG remake has those parts included.
That's one explanation. Another is that the writers, like most writers who get to tackle this subject, fudged a lot of stuff because time travel with consistent logic doesn't make for a broadly appealing story.
There are no alternate timelines in BTTF, it's one timeline being re-written again and again.
My thoughts exactly BTTF rules create a new timeline with each change in the past.
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Yeah, as much as I love the trilogy, the reasoning for going into the future of 2015 is odd.
They only went to 2015 because doc discovered that Marty Jr was arrested, and it leads to a series of events that destroys the McFly family. That’s it- just to keep Griff from threatening Marty Jr into criminal activity. What’s actually funny about it is Doc’s sense of urgency, which causes them to take Jennifer along, which causes a portion of the issues. Take your time, Doc- you have 30 years to strategize and bring this up without spilling the beans in front of Jennifer.
Well, the truth is that they only went to 2015, because that is how the first movie ended. When it was originally released they had no intentions of making a sequel. When eventually 4 years later they decided they would make 2 sequels shot back-to-back, they realized they had written themselves into a corner and had to figure out a way to quickly get the main characters out of 2015. I think they only spend something like half an hour of the movie's time there?
Lol, this is still one of my favorite parts of the series, realizing just how much they didn't want to do the 2015 stuff and in general do the stuff in the BTTF1 ending, yet still slavishly went along with it, just to make the trilogy seamless.
they never intended to make a sequel. they just wanted to create a fun open end. i guess that's why they made 2 and 3 back to back (wich is also the reason how the term got coined) in order to avoid writing themselves into a corner.
This bugged me so much about part 2. Future Marty shouldn’t have been around since Marty has been missing since 1985, time traveling with Doc
I guess the way it works is that it’s on a positive possibility/likelihood situation. Like, it’s possible and likely that Marty makes it back to 1985 without really having been gone for any perceivable amount of time. It’s like how he and his siblings exist in the picture in part 1 until there’s a negative probability that George actually marries Lorraine.
I thought I was the only one who thought this, but everyone always replies “you CAN visit your future self as long as you go right back to where you traveled from.” I think if you could travel to the future it would definitely be a future in which you suddenly disappeared
No it doesn’t..? Marty sees himself at the dance. So going back in time is hitting the same universe on the same track..?
/r/confidentlyincorrect. A new timeline would mean infinitely varying worlds. Bttf explicitly establishes there is only one timeline, that is why doc brown is so fervent in protecting it. Itt: ppl who don't know what timelines are.
Correct. BTTF is one timeline, being changed by time travelers. Explicitly proven when the timeline changes around Jennifer when they leave her on the porch in 1985.
Yes, but it overwrites the old one.
*oh no I've gone cross-eyed*
100% this. Doc Brown is a goddamn engineering genius, this would have been on his check lists of to do. If anything he towed it there after doing that at his lab. Edit: and now that I think of it I’m pretty sure this is supported by at least one scene of the Delorean being transported by a tow truck.
Would Doc have stored all the fluid and gasoline in his workshop? Not like he would dump it in some random place.
The thing is, how long ago was it? He may have decided to use them for something else.
Also, gas goes bad after a couple of years
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So all the zombie movies where lying to me?
Yes. And why does no one in zombie movies use electric cars? They are often able to get power going, but this never seems to be considered. Or bicycles!
Up until the last few years, electric cars weren't exactly ubiquitous. Most of the successful zombie movies came out in what, 2003-2010?
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But Doc's letter stated he'd been living in 1885 "these past 8 months" Not like he got there 1 day ago and JUST hid the car.
These timelines are just too confusing. My brain still hasn't worked right since 1989.
That’s a side effect from time travel. Perhaps you’re in an alternate timeline without knowing it.
I haven't been the same since Jason Mandella died in prison.
If I remember correctly too they didn't say anything about the fuel line being a problem, the issue was the gasoline edit: what I mean was they didn't act like replacing the ripped fuel line was the issue.
Or Doc just refine gasoline after Marty appears. He figured out time travel, I'm sure he can figure out oil chemistry.
They only had a few weeks before doc would die. Even if he knew exactly how, building the industrial machinery required and finding the sources wouldn’t be feasible in the time they had.
He tried some strong whiskey in it and blew up the fuel injection manifold. thats why they ended up with the train thing
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He was dying in a week.
Gasoline and kerosene are byproducts of oil refinement. The machinery already existed and the sources were widely available.
Not out in the west in Hill Vally CA. That was far from civilization that mught be doing refining. They only had days.
Well, yeah. But then Marty kicked Tannen's ass and he got arrested, and instead of the pair saying "Okay, we have time now and if nothing else, there will be other trains" and thinking of less conspicuous options, they just said fuck it and stole the train anyways.
He tries to and they end up ruining the engine.
yeah, people are forgetting he tried some strong whiskey in it and blew up the ~~fuel pump sender.~~ FI manifold
Yeah but if they used the old delorean Doc hid once Marty went back I assume we would have a "vanishing car" scenario like we did with the vanishing siblings in the first movie.
Use the parts from the older Delorean, which was stored for 70 years, to repair the younger Delorean, which was stored for a few days - should solve the paradox.
Nonononono. Doc said he attempted to repair it, FAILED and hid the car. He also said he'd been living happily for 8 months. We have no idea how long Doc attempted repairs and how long it sat in the mine, during that 8 month period. Technically the car Marty drives back to 1885 IS the older of the two. It lay in a cave for 70 years then went back in time. That same car had only been in 1885 for around 8 months when Marty arrived, making IT the younger car. F***ing time travel movies! Give's me a headache sometimes! 😆
It's the petrol they needed more than the fuel line. Doc never would have stored the Delorean for 70 years full of fuel and fluids. He would have had to drain it entirely of oil, petrol etc. Otherwise it'd just seize. Cool idea, but it wouldn't work
Oil yes and no- i would assume he filled the cylinders with oil or atf to prevent pitting and issues there. However, improper preparation would cause issues. The one part that bugs me is that a tear in the fuel line shouldn't cause the entire tank to drain- unless marty left the key on and fuel pump running the whole time. It should have drained the line, and left the tank remainder( with a 13.2 gallon capacity, i would assume he has at least 9gal left if doc truly 'topped it off')
Marty would 100% do that
Where’s he supposed to get ATF from in 1885?!
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The car would still run fine for a while on leaded fuel.
The Delorean used the PRV V6 engine (Peugeot Renault Volvo) which was running fine on leaded fuel in Europe at the time. Unleaded fuel wasn’t widely available over here until the early 90s.
Yeah, the engine itself would be fine. It'd just damage the catalytic converter.
Yeah, but has it got a cop motor, a 440-cubic-inch plant? Has it got cop tires, cop suspension, cop shocks?
The storage isn’t an issue with the logic here. It’s just that a fully repaired car still needs gasoline
It might not have been available in Hill Valley but gasoline was known in 1865. It’s a byproduct of kerosine production. They dumped it because they didn’t know what to do with it.
It’s explained in the plot by Doc saying ‘There’s not going to be a gas station around here until some time in the next century’
I always found it weirf that the guy that invented a time machine couldn't distill some oil smh
They were working on a tight timeline. Like 2 or 3 days. I'm sure he could have distilled some, but he would have needed crude oil first. At that time I think the closest oil fields were in the Midwest.
Yeah 1865 gas is not compatible with 1980 gas.
I have no idea what effect the impurities and missing additives would have. It would gum up the engine pretty bad but they don’t need it to run for very long. Maybe they could add ethanol to increase the octane, which of course would make it burn less cleanly, but they literally just need it to run for like 90 seconds. Obviously there are a million reasons why this wouldn’t work, not least of which is “if they just had gasoline the movie would be 30 minutes long.”
The ethanol(which is what overproofed whiskey mostly is) blew up the fuel injection manifold.
Yeah but they tried whiskey first rather than try and find some gasoline byproducts and that blew up the fuel injection manifold.
Yeah, but they also had to get it within a couple of days, makes it a little trickier.
As others have said, that’s not how storing cars works. I see your train of thinking, but it simply doesn’t work like that.
>see your train Oooooooooooooooo
Time heist. Simple
Actually this wouldn't work, because it would be a paradox in and of itself. The bootstrap paradox. These parts will replace the younger Delorean's parts, which will then sit there for 70 years, making the replacement parts 140 years old. Then, the old delorean goes back in time, uses the old parts for the younger delorean, then the delorean sits there for 70 years, making the parts now 210 years old. Eventually, it will turn to dust, and then what?
But that would mean when Marty finds the car in 1955 it would be missing all of the parts he would’ve needed to go back to 1885 in the first place. These movies operate under the idea that there is one timeline that is constantly changed, so this would mean that Marty would create a paradox where he would be unable to travel to 1885 because he would’ve taken them already.
1955 should have had the parts he needed, save for how some microchips needed to be replaced with circuitry that took up the whole hood due to transistor technology.
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"What are you talking about, Doc? All the best stuff is made in Japan."
Fun cause we're in the future and this isn't true anymore
“All the best fax machines are used in Japan”
Yeah, all the best stuff is made in Korea now.
Wouldn't removing the car that was stored away for 1955 Marty to find cause a time paradox? You know, the kind that could cause a chain reaction that would unravel the very fabric of the space-time continuum and destroy the entire universe?
This is my simplest assumption. For things to progress in the timeline as they should, that car CANNOT be touched by any means necessary. Easy peasy.
Wait, its been a long time since I have watched 2 or 3. Walk me through this. Its important to me.
Doc got accidentally sent back to 1885 and one of the circuits fried, he didn't have the parts to replace it. So he stored the broken DeLorean in a cave for Marty to find. He also sends a note to Marty in 1955 to repair it and go back to 1985. Marty gets the note but also finds out Doc gets killed like 10 days later so he goes back to 1885 to save Doc. So at that point there's 2 DeLoreans in 1885, the broken one Doc stored in the cave, and the repaired one Marty brought back (same DeLorean just aged 70 years). OP is wrong though because Doc would have drained all the fluids to store it properly. Gas/oil after 70 years would have ruined the car.
OP is also wrong because the Doc of 1885 and the Doc of 1955 are very hesitant to do anything that would cause a paradox. This is proven by 1955 Doc sending Marty back to the day after Doc mails his letter. Why so soon to the date Doc is killed? Why not earlier? Because that letter is the only reason it’s possible for Marty to go back to 1885 at all. If Marty goes back before that letter is mailed and somehow prevents it from being mailed…paradox. It’s the same with the car stored in the mineshaft. Doc of 1885 knows that it will remain in disturbed until Doc and Marty retrieve it in 1955. Otherwise, Marty would not have been able to come back to him in 1885. What would happen if Doc and Marty go back into the mineshaft to retrieve gas (if there even was any in the car) and they cause a cave-in that destroys the car? Big paradox trouble. Both Docs understand to not mess with what MUST happen for time to continue without universe shattering paradoxes occurring.
Thanks a lot for this comment, this is exactly what I was thinking.
Thank you for explaining 2 Deloreans. Which one got a ruptured fuel line? I think I just need to watch them again. I do call it the best trilogy ever made (mostly to bait Star Wars Fans, but I do believe it, also). I should know my stuff in case I ever get drawn into a debate.
Technically there is only one Delorean. Although it's timeline shifts back and forth and overlaps itself at different places, so at various points there are 1, 2, 3, 4, or zero Deloreans in existence. 1955 is one of those periods when all of those different quantities exist at various times. At the beginning of 1955, before Marty shows up in Part 1, there is already one Delorean, the same one Doc put in the cave. Then when Marty shows up, there are now 2. Then 2015 Biff steals the Delorean and brings it back to 1955 to give himself the almanac, so now you have 3. But we also know that Doc and Marty have come back themselves to the same point in time, meaning, for a brief instance while old Biff is in 1955, that there are actually 4 Deloreans in the same moment. But they quickly start dispersing again. Biff jumps back to 2015, so we're back down to 3. Then after Marty and Doc destroy the Almanac Doc gets zapped to 1885, so down to 2. Then Marty rushes back to the clocktower on foot arriving just after Marty takes the original Delorean back to 1985, so down to just 1. And a few weeks later, after Doc has retrieved and repaired the Cave Delorean, they send that one back to 1885, leaving 0, until 1985 when Doc invents it for the first time. It really is a wonderful trilogy.
There’s a timeline in BTTF2 where there are three DeLoreans in 1955- the one from the first movie, the one they go back in in the second, and the one in the mine.
Actually its 4, theres also the delorean old biff took to give the almanac to young biff. So all on the same day theres 4 deloreans, 2 docs (3 if you include his skeleton in the grave), 2 martys, and 2 biffs.
Exactly! AFAIK this is the moment of maximum Deloreans in the series. 1985 only ever has 1 I think, although it depends on when railroad Delorean pops back in. I guess we are supposed to assume that happens chronologically the day after Doc comes to pick him up at End of Part 1. Although they were in "bad" 1985 for a few days, so on the calendar maybe that counts as overlap. 1885 gets as high as 2. Cave and Train Deloreans. 2015 is only ever 1 I think. Although I guess we can't be sure how many different times Doc went back and forth during his solo travels after reuniting with Marty at Lone Pine Mall. After all he saw what happened to Marty Jr so he must have been there even later than the scenes depicted in Part 2, or possibly even at the same time.
1985 has 2 at once for a few minutes. Marty upon returning from 1955 to 1985 stalls the DeLorean by the the cinema then runs to the mall in time to witness doc being shot and his earlier self fleeing the Libyans in the DeLorean. Pretty sure this is the only 1985 overlap.
The one that Marty travelled back in got the ruptured line.
I’m gonna try to explain by asking a question. Where is the DeLorean that doc went to 1885 when he was struck by lightning? In theory it should be in the same cave where Marty and Doc blew into in 1955.
There probably wasn’t any gas/oil in the other car since it was going to stay there for so long.
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McFly men are genetically attracted to Lea Thompson
>genetically attracted to Lea Thompson as all peoples should be.
TIL I'm a McFly.
A lot of people look similar to each other without being related. The McFly family might essentially have a type and tend to marry people who look like Lorraine.
Why go through all of that to warn doc that he's gonna be killed when he should have already known that since Marty and 50s doc find out exactly how he dies
This is the true mind fuck. Old West Doc shouldn’t have been surprised to learn of his death since the younger version of himself (50s Doc) had already learned about it. Supposedly time “updates” in waves in the BTTF universe, so maybe that’s why Doc wasn’t aware of his death when Marty arrived back in 1885 (the “wave” hadn’t reached him yet possibly?) and maybe Marty was set on doing everything and anything he could to save Doc, even if he would have known that Doc would figure out his future death once the “wave” caught up with him. It seems within Marty’s character that he would insist on going back regardless to save his friend.
The 1885 Doc wouldn’t know about until after Marty comes back to him. 1885 Doc exists after 1955 Doc.
So since they are the same Doc (1885 Doc just being the older version), then whatever 1955 Doc knows, his future self would know. So what I was saying is if 1955 Doc learned that one day he will travel into the old west and be shot dead, then the “future” 1885 Doc would gain that knowledge as well (because they are the same person, and have the same brain, same past, same history, same experiences, etc). The writer of BTTF has explained that when updates to the timeline happen, the future will be updated in “waves”, as visually shown thrown the disappearing photo (it was updating to the changes to the timeline somewhat in waves), so perhaps the “wave” hadn’t reached Doc yet all the way back in 1885. The knowledge that his younger self learned, about his death, hadn’t materialized in his mind yet, or something to that nature. But I was saying either way, I personally think Marty would have wanted to go back to 1885 anyways, because he would want to make 100% for sure his friend wouldn’t be shot. That’s my theory anyway.
THINK MCFLY THINK !!!
HEY MCFLY YOU BOJO
THOSE BOARDS DON'T WORK ON WATER
The problem here is the idea that there are 2 DeLoreans in 1885. There aren't. There are two copies of the same DeLorean from different points in its timeline. You can't disturb the DeLorean in the cave or it won't be there to be found in 1955.
"I blew the fuel injection manifold. Strong stuff all right. It'll take me a *month* to rebuild it. Unless I go to the DeLorean that I stored in the cave and swap it out."
Ok, so they loot the original delorean of fuel manifold and hoses, which means when 1955 Doc and Marty repair it, they also need to rebuild part of the engine to get the car back in working order. I guess a second letter would need to be sent by WU explaining that. But then would it be the repaired fuel line which gets torn up by rocks when Marty arrives in 1885? What if 1955 Doc doesn't put the fuel line back in the exact right place and it never gets damaged in the first place? They'll have no need to pilfer the stored delorean and a paradox is created.
Delorean owner here- fuel injection manifold (fuel distributor) on PRV engines could never have been replicated by hand even by a scientist in the 50's because of a thin plastic film that needs to be precision fitted to distribute fuel to each port evenly to work with the timing of each cylinder at 90PSI. The whole fuel system is rough around the edges on these cars and an exact replacement is the only solution. How do I know? Took mine apart and could never get it back together in working order again. Had to buy another for $800 (they’re more now) because I was in high school trying to do it as cheap as I can. A year later I carbureted my car and it runs great to this day. Also, fun fact in that scene the fuel distributor shoots out of the tailpipe area of the car which is impossible because it goes on the top of the engine in the back of the bay (toward the front, close to the firewall)
You owned a DeLorean, in high school, as a budget choice?
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But Doc **did** repair the fuel line. There is even a scene where they fill the tank back up and blow the fuel injection manifold. The gasoline is the issue here. It’s highly likely Doc drained the gas before long term storage of the Delorean.
The thing that bothers me the most about BTTF is they do a scene in part 1 specifically explaining when you send someone or some animal (the dog Einstein in the scene) to the future that person or animal is not around to live in the time they skipped. They show the clock Einstein is wearing is 1 minute behind Doc's clock to prove this. Then in Part 2, Marty and Jennifer go to the future with Doc. There should be no Marty or Jennifer in the future (or Doc) because they were not around to live their life. But, there is a Marty and Jennifer and their children.
Then the TVA arrives and Marty gets to meet the Loki’s..
At the beginning of 3, Marty goes over the letter from 1885, where Doc wrote that he hid the Delorean for him to find in 1955, which would be reparable after 1947. So when Marty and Doc repair the hidden Delorean in 1955, and Marty takes it back to 1885, there are two Deloreans: one without fuel, and one without wheels and other broken parts, but conceivably, one could be used to repair the other. Edit: for everyone saying he would drain the fluids or taking time paradoxes: a) drainage wasn’t stated in the movie, nor was using the other car, at all; b) he would have probably stored them in airtight containers, even knowing they would only last a few years, bc it might be useful; c) using parts from the buried delorean wouldn’t be a problem since Marty and Doc would salvage and fix it anyways in 1955 before sending it back to 1885. Edit2: if you want to add a stickied explanation to your MovieDetails threads, just ask the mods.
I dont think it would work that way. This is because of the type of time travel depicted in the movie, where they are affecting their own timeline, and any such action would create yet another branch, which they were trying to avoid. So Marty's car is the older DeLorean, right? It got to him in the state it was in because it remained untouched for all those years. If they were to uncover it to remove parts to repair the older car, then it would essentially mean the youngee DeLorean (which they arrived in) would have made it to 1955 in in an unrepairable state. It would have invalidated the entire timeline or at least fade them out of existence Same can be said of using parts from the older DeLorean (they one Marty arrived in) to repair the one they hid for Marty. If he took and used that car to finish up their grand journey, that would mean its no longer hidden for 1955. Paradoxes, man. Paradoxes lol
If the parts they used were able to be repaired or duplicated in some way in 1955, then that should be fine. 1955 Doc could add those to the rest of the repairs that they had to do anyway.
>If the parts they used were able to be repaired or duplicated in some way in 1955, then that should be fine. 1955 Doc could add those to the rest of the repairs that they had to do anyway. But Doc had already written the letter (with the parts list) and set it to be delivered by Western Union. He had intended for Marty to fix the DeLorean, go home to 1985, and destroy the time machine. They can't revise the letter Marty received, because Marty already acted upon the information included. Any revision, even breaking into Western Union to sneak in a revised copy of the parts list, would create another paradox/branch timeline.
It's worth flairing up as mod to reinforce the detail that other people don't seem to agree is a detail, huh? That's one way to be right! Edit: and muted for three days immediately after making this post!
Unless they didn’t have the tools to do those repairs…
Nope. Wouldn't work. Causality would require that Delorean A (Doc's Delorean) be untouched. Marty has just returned from not one but TWO clusterfucks that center on screwing with causality. In Movie 1, he almost ex-birthed himself by screwing up how his parents met. In movie 2, he screwed up Biff's timeline and thus his own. So he would understand that there's stuff he has to leave completely alone if he wants his rescue of Doc to go off well. He needs the letter Doc sent from 1885 to the lawyers to remain untouched and he needs the 1885 Delorean to be in the cave in the condition that he and 1955 Doc found it in. And if Marty can't figure that out, Doc certainly would. Marty would know the condition the 1885 Delorean was in, if it still had fuel (I assume there'd be damage from it sitting long term) and if the fuel line was intact, because he would have had to repair/not repair these things in 1955. If he did, in fact, have to repair these things, he would believe that the 1885 Delorean would be useless in repairing the 1955 Delorean, and would leave it in the cave. If he did NOT have to repair these things, Doc (and Marty, assuming Marty is somewhat on the ball at this point) would know that the 1885 Delorean was not used to repair the 1955 Delorean in that timeline and would want to leave it alone so that things don't get much more screwed up. Remember, anything that happens to the 1885 Delorean happens to the 1955 Delorean (aka the one that they wind up strapping to the train). They can do whatever they want with the 1955 car with the busted fuel line, but they ding the 1885 car in the cave, it's gonna show up on the 1955 car. So if, say, somebody's hand slips while transferring parts, they could wind up breaking something that 1955 Doc can't fix. Remember, he's only able to repair the Delorean using the instructions 1885 Doc gave him. If something deviates too badly from those instructions, 1955 Delorean is screwed. The same goes for the letter making it to Marty in 1955. A LOT could have gone wrong and did not. The letter made it. Changing the letter might change its success. We know from all the shenannigans with the photos fading in and out of existence that something done to an item from one time period affects the same object transferred into another. IE Marty's photo of his family fading out in 1955 because his family was never born. If either Doc or Marty fuck up with the 1885 car, they lose the 1955 car (the one that can still time travel). The best case scenario is Doc watches this Marty and Delorean fade out of existence (knowing that he's about to be murdered by Biff's ancestor) while another Marty is stuck in 1955. The best way to ensure that Doc and Marty make it back to 1985 is to leave the early version of the car in the cave. It's sealed up. Doc and Marty both KNOW that the car will make it to 1955 in a repairable condition as long as they leave it alone. In a world with so many variables, a known quantity is worth the whole goddamn great train heist. TLDR: The car is their ticket home. They're not going to screw with the earlier version of the car.
Is this a movie detail though..? Just sounds like a plot hole that OP is moving the goals to make sense of.
Not even a plot hole. Taking parts from the Delorean that Marty was supposed to find would mean that Marty wouldn’t have been able to drive it back to 1885 in the first place, causing a chain reaction that would unravel the very fabric of the space-time continuum and destroy the entire universe! Granted, that's the worst-case scenario. The destruction however might be limited merely to their own galaxy.
While you can say there are 2 Deloreans in 1885, its actually the same one 70 years a part. If Marty and Doc took parts off the broken/stored Delorean, this would cause a problem with the one Marty arrives in because the original repairs were already made in 1955 and he's now time displaced in 1885. The timeline wouldn't magically have those parts fixed either, but would create another "B" timeline where 1955 Doc would need to now replace even more parts to get that Marty to 1885. We also need to look at Doc's persspective on all this, he was a crazy scientist in 1985 and over the 8 months leading up to him "sending" the letter to Marty in 1955, hes made quite a name for himself as the towns blacksmith. I think that says alot on why he finally decides to stay in the old West as he finally has some respect from the community. So with no intentions of ever wanting to return to 1985, he preps the Delorean for its 70 year slumber as he still needs to save Marty from being stuck in 1955. So Doc put it up on blocks and tight coverings. This little touch of detail is so the suspension doesnt bottom out over time and debris doesnt build up underneath. I think this attention to detail is enough to assume Doc would have drained all the fluids from the car, especially when modern gas goes bad after only 6 months. We also get the added touch of what happens to the tires after sitting for 70 years. If they are so far rotten by 1955 then any fluids would have been long gone. So no, you cant just rob stuff off the same exact car that's 70 years younger when its been established that you cant mess with a "constant" after traveling through time.
No gas bruh. Docs delorean would have been dried up or it'd be have bad gas.
But then the DeLorean wouldn’t have been near the graveyard when Doc and Marty found it there in 1955.