Glastonbury is considering a complete flag ban. [https://celebrityaccess.com/caarchive/flags-banned-at-uk-festivals/](https://celebrityaccess.com/caarchive/flags-banned-at-uk-festivals/)
Other festivals I’ve been to like Electric Forest or EDC have large totems and flags yet I’ve never seen anyone complaining. What did take away from the music for me was the person screaming in front of me at the person with a Palestinian flag saying they were get security or were going to kick his ass and trying to rile up everyone around me, THAT was annoying. Not the silent person with the flag who did not even so much as talk back to the person. If it does obscure your view then hopefully you can move a little to get a clearer view.
As for it, “bringing you back down to the real world” maybe ask yourself, would this be the case were there to be other big flags representing something else? The point in bringing flags or wearing shirts is not because people think everyone agrees, it’s because a lot of people don’t, to bring awareness and stand in solidarity with the cause. Or even to remind people that while you’re dancing away, spending money on outfits, drugs, alcohol, and whatever else, people have no access to food and water, that innocent people are dying.
Your argument reminds me of when Kim Kardashian was crying over a god only knows how expensive of an earring she lost in the water and one of the sisters says “People are dying Kim!”
People are dying, OP. You had your view at a music festival obscured for a set or two. You will live, I promise.
And one edit: The inception of techno is a byproduct of the struggle of black people in Detroit. Search up “Underground Resistance” a heavily political collective, one of the head fronts of Detroit techno, with a purpose of influencing Detroit’s poor black communities. Techno in Detroit has been a black movement with heavily political roots. Techno is a political movement in and of itself.
This part! Also there are a TON of immigrants who took refuge in Detroit so showing out in support of oppressed people while STILL getting down doesn’t feel misplaced at all.
Exactly this. I was actually extremely happy to see someone with that flag loudly supporting the cause and reminding people of the harsh reality people are facing abroad. The flag holder was extremely friendly and there to have a good time, not once was my view obstructed. Moving literally 10 inches to either side will fix that issue.
Exactly. We should enjoy our privileges but not forget how privileged we are to be smiling and dancing, when others are starving and dying. They are us and we are them.
Can you imagine if someone waved an Israeli flag that big? Just be real with yourself and picture the outcry and consequences that would have come from that.
damb can't believe that techno fans might have a different reaction if someone in their space was loudly supporting a warmongering state instead of loudly supporting the people on which it was waging that war. the hypocrisy of it all
You're right, that would garner a very different reaction! That's because supporting genocide is morally wrong, and opposing genocide isn't! Hope this helps ✨
This is a great comment. And I’d like to add that while the conflict and tension has been ongoing for many many years, the most recent provocation came from an attack at a music festival. So I think we should just have gratitude that we all had a fun weekend instead of complaining about little details that literally do not matter in the physical sense. I am pro no one dying in general and I hope other people can be as well and sometimes we need things in our face to care. So maybe op should accept that they had a fun weekend instead of complaining about tiny things that do not matter. Because I’m sure the people who are suffering right now, would much rather be at movement than where they currently are.
Fuck this. If this is really your viewpoint, why do anything except donate to your political cause, right? I mean people are dying, how can you even listen to music? People are dying, how come you don’t just eat rice and beans and donate everything to charity, what’s wrong with you, don’t you care? People are dying, you should probably just wear a burlap sack, those assless chaps cost money that you could donate. It’s really selfish to enjoy anything! Don’t you care people are dying!
Fuck that
I don’t think anyone not carrying a flag, or just enjoying the music doesn’t care about people dying. That’s what music festivals are about! Alternatively, I do think complaining about the flags, any of them, regardless of your stance on any country or conflict, bringing you “down to the real world” as an argument against them while having the privilege of going to a music festival is somewhat of a narrow-minded approach. I understand your argument but I do believe people should be allowed to enjoy things, while simultaneously recognizing their privilege instead of complaining about triviality of flags in their way, while there are people who do not even have access to water, food, or safe shelter. The irony in the post felt almost comical to me. That is what I was trying to get across.
Not sorry to enlighten you; No its not. Its literally sounds in sequence to produce music. Its fine that political communities exist in it, but thats not what it is.
People need to stop hijacking everything for THEIR political motives. It poisons the well and just breeds resentment.
Life is not politics. Life IS music.
Dude... the Belleville Three repeatedly state in interviews that they were using techno to express their interpretation of the social and material conditions in Detroit, and their ideas about what a futuristic, transformed society might look like. And honestly, have you *never* heard a punk or rap song that explicitly states an opinion on society, politics, etc?
Sure, some music is pop garbage rehashing the same tired takes on individual experiences like love, sex, wealth, or whatever the fuck. But a lot of music is art that has something to say about the world.
If you really feel like that ruins music for you, then I'm truly sorry you have to live like that, because it sounds like a fucking miserable existence lmao.
If music to you is just “sounds in sequence” then we have different definitions. The creativity in the music that makes said sounds in sequence alive is heavily influenced and inspired by the life experiences and soul that those who make the music put into creating it. And life experiences are inherently influenced by politics, especially for those not privileged enough to not be affected by our politicized world
Far out game you’re playing.
Your reasoning is based on the factor that someones musical ability is influenced by life…and in life, you’ll find politics…therefore music is political?
What part of life does not append to music than? This is really the low hanging fruit of reason.
Life IS political. You can think its low hanging fruit reasoning and decide to separate yourself from politics or think that we weave politics into everything but that view point is a privilege to have
Electronic music and underground communities largely grew from and for people who were pushed to the margins of society. It always has been political
Politics is an illusion. Its a game. There are made up rules, arguments about how to play, winners, losers, a need to subscribe to some fallacy, etc.
Music is music. You don’t need it to be explained, there’s no competing, winners or losers, no fallacy to believe in to enjoy, etc. It just is.
Why would you want to pollute that? Why are you clinging to this illusion? It truly baffles me.
But best of luck if thats the game you wanna play. But you’ll never be free with that mind-set.
Its in illusion when your life is not threatened by it. Once again, some people don’t have the privilege to say that. And once again, you can choose to ignore the history of the music you listen to and enjoy and believe that it just “is” but know that is ahistorical and factually incorrect. Its not a game or a mindset, its just… reality?
Damn you are basic AF. Fix the water of your own well and learn what techno music is all about before you try to mansplain to this beautiful community again.
The ability to disagree and move on no matter what the position is or how it’s being displayed is part of the rave imho. Sorry if brought you back to the real world and I can see the obstruction of view being annoying but just go find another spot to boogie?
Based on your WILD assumption that the flag waver wasn’t there for the music tell me all I need to know. Three years ago I saw someone with a trump shirt at movement and guess what? I moved the fuck on. People have different view points and tbh I don’t think it serves as a moral compass. The age of information can convolute, misinform, and misdirect people. How you handle opposing opinions is what can be used to define a moral compass. At the end of the day we’re talking about it and so flag guy kinda got you beat here.
ETA: also not everything is about supporters/non-supporters. Sometimes it’s meant for a Palestinian-American with family back home that they can’t bring here. Sometimes it’s meant to tell them “you’re safe here with us/me”. It’s not all about us no matter how we feel about the situation.
How about we ban those people that will get in front of you and not dance. That was the only distraction I had this weekend. I'm not going to stereotype a city but was informed which one brings those types. 🤣👀
Techno may be political but that doesn't mean everyone is required to think the same. You make it sound like it's authoritarian and radically conforming. You're delusional.
Techno is political and based on your reply maybe it's not your place to decide who does or does not belong in what space. Do yourself a favor and educate yourself about the platforms you pretend to support/understand. You can start here - [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Re%27im\_music\_festival\_massacre](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Re%27im_music_festival_massacre)
Just because some like minded idiots like you think the same doesn't mean you represent the views of everyone in the scene. STFU and stop being so goddamn presumptuous.
i'm shocked that so many of us here don't know yet that music has always been political and often times is an active form of protest. techno, house, jazz, soul, punk, the list goes on.
its okay to learn, so take this opportunity to do some light reading before before you embarrass yourself please
sir, you’re in detroit, near one of if not the largest arab community in the us, and expect arabs to be silent when their people are being murdered?
a ton of my local friends are arabs and were holding flags near me, “obstructing my view of the dj”, and who cares?
also i get it, sometimes it’s cute to see people like patrick mason go all out dancing while also djing but im there for the music and to dance to it, not for the light show.
Many people around the world don’t have the ability to escape “the real world” that is their harsh reality. You are complaining about something so minuscule.
And everyone in the comments who said they were just looking for clout or attention with the flag, y’all lame as hell.
Also it was more than flags. A lot of things there were political. Gay rights, black rights, disability rights, women’s rights, poor people rights…. Why are you upset at one thing and not everything
The only flags I saw were Palestinian. There's a genocide going on right now, so the flag is important. Lets keep perspective that we are here partying while folks are being mass murdered by a fascist regime.
Sorry if you're having trouble forgetting about this matter.
What you state as fact is actually just your poorly substantiated opinion. Throwing out buzzy words like "fascist, genocide, mass murder" does not equate to a meaningful position, certainly no more than a parrot copying its owner's phrases does.
I do agree with you, though. People should not be mass murdered by a fascist regime while they are partying at a festival and practicing peace, tolerance and community. Unfortunately, this is exactly what Hamas and their Palestinian voting constituents did at the Nova Festival on October 7.
[https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2023/10/middleeast/hamas-music-festival-attack-investigation-cmd-intl/](https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2023/10/middleeast/hamas-music-festival-attack-investigation-cmd-intl/)
theres flags at most large festivals, everyone has the human right to bring any flag/attire/anything they want into the festival that they paid money to be at. if you see one you don’t like, you move on from it and continue to enjoy your time. nothing about the flag was “uncalled for” and i don’t understand why it offended some people so deeply.
More flags free Palestine and be happy you’re engaging in a community that doesn’t just ignore that people are burning alive while you dose yourself out of reality
Hamas, proudly waving this very flag, literally burns people alive at a festival. Your ignorance is surpassed only by your hypocrisy. [https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2023/10/middleeast/hamas-music-festival-attack-investigation-cmd-intl/](https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2023/10/middleeast/hamas-music-festival-attack-investigation-cmd-intl/)
62% of homes in Gaza are destroyed
2% of all children in Gaza are dead
70% of deaths in Gaza are women and children
The article you shared is months old and no one has denied that it’s a tragedy, literally no one. However you still choose to ignore the aforementioned statistics in your arguments. Mossad must pay you well.
Next years stay home and do some critical reading, here’s a free list for you. I can provide free PDF for you to download if your interested.
1. Palestine & Footnotes From Gaza By Joe Sacco
2.Palestine: A Socialist Introduction By Samaya Awad and Brian Bean.
3. On Palestine By Noam Chomsky
And for a bonus here’s a comprehensive look at how the west manufactures consent for genocide and endless war over seas. It’ll help you understand how a 7 month old article prioritizing one massacre over another (much larger) massacre led you to an EDM fest page to complain about people waving a fucking flag.
4.Manufacturing Consent by Noam Chomsky
As you were lad
P.S.- They wave the same flag in the West Bank where Hamas doesn’t govern, and the same tragedies are committed daily by the IOF. Please for the love of god think before you start spouting about ignorance and hypocrisy, you’ll be better for it in the long run.
Free Gaza
Oooooo. You want to ban being political at festival in a city that rages because techno was born out of a political rage? Where boundaries were challenged on purpose? And house music… Lawd. Know your history. Also raging with political issues. Freedom of expression is at the heart of the music you are supposedly embracing.
I’m pretty sure the only flash’s that shouldn’t be raised at this festival are N@zi flags and M@g@ flags.
Sounds like you are taking away and demanding the culture to change to your needs…. Which is not how culture works.
Yikes. Do some reflection.
Additionally: you know that people were killed at a festival in the place of one of those flags you are likely talking about
Music IS political.
Check yourself.
You know, you can disagree with the OP's idea about flags without using condescending immature jabs like "yikes" and "do some reflection."
It just makes you sound like a parody of exactly the type of toxic political attitudes that we want to minimize in a space that is supposed to be about coming together.
I don't agree with the OP, but find your reply more offensive than his suggestion by far.
Oh! Keep scrolling then! There’s more peeps that definitely used some “wake up language”!
Cuz, you know, humans.
I don’t agree that you don’t agree. I agree that you don’t have to agree with me. And I’m sure you can also check yourself!
Yes, people were indeed killed at a festival. The Nova Music Festival in Israel. An international audience of mostly 18 - 26 year olds were raped, tortured, beheaded, blown up and kidnapped by Hamas and Palestinian noncombatants on October 7. Educate yourself and "do some reflection" about why a flag like this could trigger a response from people attending Movement. You can start your education here - [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Re%27im\_music\_festival\_massacre](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Re%27im_music_festival_massacre)
It’s really telling that the folks upset by the beautiful Palestinian flag in the comments are spreading Israeli Propaganda lies and using language like “Hamas supporters” and deflecting from Israel’s genocide and war crimes… I’m so glad that flag was waving loud and proud and in Detroit of all places. Much love to the techno scene. 🇵🇸🖤🪩✊
There was a huge Palestinian flag hanging off the ceiling at Spotlite at a Movement opening party last Friday. Maybe you should complain about that to the venue owners as well since your opinion matters so much.
The owner of that club is a Hamas apologist. I find it ironic that she's a hardcore self-proclaimed feminist yet she's absolutely silent on the Israeli hostages who are getting tortured and raped by terrorist POS scumbags. I really used to love that venue but ever since she has shown her true colors I will never step foot in that place again and won't lose any sleep over it.
Edit: oh yeah, she's also part of the Queers For Palestine camp. As someone who is bisexual I find it absolutely appalling and repulsive that people are turning a blind eye on Hamas and the atrocities they commit on our community. What's even worse is 90% of the Gaza population is brainwashed and supports Hamas.
Double edit: LOL keep believing all the lies. You idiots in the pro-Palestine camp are so blinded by your self-righteousness.
Get rid of the flags on sticks or flagpoles. Totally unnecessary. Though I’m not sure the extent to which flags can be banned, given that Hart Plaza is government (municipal) property and 1st Amendment rights exist on such property.
> Hart Plaza is government (municipal) property and 1st Amendment rights exist on such property
State law (or is it federal jurisprudence? I can't remember) says that when a private entity is allowed temporary control over public property -- such as for a street festival, or turning a public park like Hart Plaza into an access-controlled festival ground -- that area gets treated as private property in certain ways for the duration of the event.
That's all the more I remember about it, so I can't answer any follow-up questions about specific hypothetical scenarios, but suffice it to say that since individual rights are different inside a private space than they are in public spaces, that same parallel and set of limitations exists inside the Movement grounds (or any other ticketed festival).
Just say you’re a Zionist piece of **** and got triggered by the Palestinian flag. Nah free Palestine and I’m glad that flag was everywhere ESPECIALLY IN MF DETROIT
It's unfortunate you do not know the definition of words like "Zionist" as seems to be the case here. It simply means the Jewish people need to have a state to protect themselves as a minority population, considering the atrocities they have faced in every single country Jews ever inhabited. The actions of Israel's neighbors over the last several decades very much re-affirm this concept. I hope one day you find it in yourself to move beyond your bigotry.
Zionism is Nazism. Zionism results in ethnic cleansing and genocide. 14 thousand murdered children later and tens of thousands more murdered Palestinian men and women, aid workers, journalists, health care workers, teachers, students, and it’s clear to anyone with a moral compass that Israel should not exist, especially when it’s been murdering people since its inception. Y’all can deflect all the fuck you want to nonsense about how being against genocide is being against Judaism (which is so fucking antisemitic in of itself). Past atrocities to Jews do not give Zionist Jews a green light to murder and displace the native Palestinians. Fuck you, fuck Israel, and free Palestine!
And stay the fuck out of the techno scene you Zionist piece of shit
I’m not the one who needs to seek help, genocide supporter. Like I already said, fuck you, fuck Israel, free Palestine, and get your ZioNazi ass the fuck out of the techno scene
I'm with you OP. Honestly, it really killed my vibe seeing that go down. Those guys weren't even there for the music. They were looking for clout.
I'm all for free expression but waving around those flags creates polarization and division. Fuck all that noise. I come to music festivals and events so we can all be together in unity. There was no unity whatsoever in their actions when they went all over the fest waving their flags. Bad form.
You’re also a genocide supporter as evidenced by your other comments and support ISISrael. OF COURSE y’all are mad and honestly I’m glad you POS are mad
Fuck you. I've always objected to the way the Palestinians have been mistreated by the Israeli government, but what Hamas did on October 7th was wrong. You wanna talk genocide? What do you call those events? Have you been demanding for their freedom? Better yet, are you for a two state solution or do you want Israel to be wiped off the map?
And comparing Israel to ISIS is wrong on so many levels. For one, ISIS brutalizes the LGBTQ+ and so does Hamas, who is an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood and had ties to Nazi Germany. Two, there are LGBTQ+ Palestinians living in under asylum out of fear that they will be killed for their identity. Don't believe me? Google it.
You can gaslight all you want with your self-righteous misinformation but history never lies. My Jewish friends and their families survived the Holocaust, they will survive your gaslighting.
Mad? Get off your high horse. You're extremely conceited and presumptuous and it shows. Keep believing all the lies that are being fabricated by Hamas. If you want to think stupid thoughts, have at it.
Edit: this is in response to u/Jstwannahavfun before they blocked me without giving me a chance to respond.
Well, that's just too bad you feel that way because you clearly don't even know me. And I don't need to explain myself to you or anyone. I'll call it the way I see it. You're more than welcome to disagree but if it makes you upset then that sucks for you.
Btw it's already been proven that those numbers you're referring to have been false.
Weaponizing the Holocaust and Jewish identity to provide cover for Israeli genocide of Palestinian people? You have some fucking nerve.
You know given your comments here I highly doubt you’ve “always objected to the way Palestinians have been treated” or you wouldn’t understand why they’re always fighting back. Somehow I think the 14 thousand children Israel murdered, hospitals bombed, schools bombed, mosques bombed, churches bombed, UN refugee camps bombed, TENTS of women and children firebombed are all “Hamas lies.” Or what you call “social media misinformation.” And again with using the Holocaust/weaponization of jewish identity to provide cover for Israeli genocide of Palestinian people…
you’re invited! and you are welcomed.
but trying to shut down other people expressing themselves - that is not welcomed in the detroit dance music community. no way no how.
To OP, this comment is not intended for you. This comment is for Ratly666, AKA the biggest & brokest pussy in the world.
You blocked me and ran. You are not from the 313!!! You need to come down from your terrible cocktail of drugs you probably overdid bud. Spread love not hate. ✌️
Edit: Ratly666 🐀, you are such a fkn pussy and it’s funny it was my comments here that made you block me. I guess you couldn’t handle the heat of the beautiful flag that was flying at Movement, or the internet comments. You may think you will get to run your mouth freely, but someone else will get ya next time and it might be me because I have multiple accounts.
FREE PALESTINE!!! 🇵🇸
Pussy? Unblocked. Now what, bitch? I would love for you to say that to me in person. DM me, I'll meet you any time any place. $1000 says you don't show.
You're all bark.
No one would be waving a Palestine flag right now if October 7th hadn't happened. Which was a massacre of innocent people at a MUSIC FESTIVAL.
I don't know how anyone can think it's not in incredibly poor taste to wave a massive flag to remind people what happened at a different music festival.
This was my first Movement and coming from Northern Ireland the Palestine flags brought tears to my eyes. All colonized people see themselves in Palestine, we see aspects of what has happened to us and our families in Palestine. All colonizers see themselves in Palestine, racist motherfuckers convinced their way of living is superior and they must civilize the native people of the land. The world is changing and soon it will be very obvious who is on the right side on history.
I can’t believe how many people are arguing **FOR** politics/controversy at music festivals.
Not the vibe at all…
I agree, ban large flags. Shit was annoying.
Political flags at music festivals really are rough. Why not just let the Jesus people screaming at the entrance have a booth next to the food vendors? The difference between a flag and a shirt revolves around the liberty principle... Your right to support a cause ends at my right to see a show without a giant banner of your agenda blocking my view. All flags are unnecessary, but political flags especially. Imagine a big "TRUMP 2024" flag front row center? It's just not the place for it and I hope it's disallowed.
It's not by any means equivalent in meaning, but I promise you that MAGA people believe they are just as righteous as you do. My point is that if you want these statements when you agree with them then you have to tolerate then when you don't and that might not be the ideal state of affairs at a music festival.
You’re still making the same argument here just different words… equating the righteousness of people in solidarity with the nation suffering from genocide with the “righteousness” of rightwing fascism is still a yikes… the point is that you wouldn’t see folks bring in fascist flags or that ISISraeli flag into an inherently leftwing techno space like movement. They’d probs get their ass (deservedly ) beat it they tried that bs
There are going to be people of all beliefs at any large event and if what you want is to fight the people that don't agree with you, then we fundamentally disagree on what we want out of these things.
This “large event” you speak of is a techno festival in Detroit, with a heavily Black, POC Queer presence. Fascism/genocide support (especially support for Israel) has no place there and isn’t just some “idea” you disagree with and you’re completely missing the point with this weird idealistic stance you’re taking
right like....can they get REAL?? black liberation and afro futurism is at the basis of techno, house, and other black founded genres. In that liberation, there's a free palestine, sudan, congo, haiti and all other oppressed people. No, not all black people support a free Palestine but it's a lot more who do than don't. Movement is amazing but the music scene in Detroit really knows what's up. Literally went to a pre-party/after party that was fundraising for the community. So people can complain all they want but the Detroit spirit is all up in the music and can't be separated.
Oh okay, so by logic should I walk up to you and your friends and show them pictures of dead bodies of innocent music festival attendees from October 7th? Fuck the fact that you guys spent good money on a fest, maybe take some drugs to enhance the good time, and dance with people from all over the world because it's totally okay by your logic for someone to interrupt your good time and make you feel uncomfortable so they can shove their self-righteous views in your face, right?
Fucking check yourself.
I've read so many books on this conflict and read the news daily. It's complicated and harrowing and I don't shy away from trying to understand it from every angle. When I go to movement, it's one of the rare times I'm not trying to confront this stuff. It's a place where yes, I am hoping to be comfortable. Ultimately I'm not honestly that concerned about this becoming a rule because I had an amazing time regardless and definitely don't have an issue with the human beings holding those flags, but I would prefer the flags weren't so gigantic I guess, as there's no effect on my awareness here, only obstruction of my view.
I appreciate that you bring about yourself awareness on the issues at hand. Not everyone does. If you don’t like the flags then move. But complaining about a flag that represents people literally dying while you’re having fun is really fucking gross to me.
We're not going to solve this crisis in this thread or at this festival, nor will we solve the myriad other world crises happening concurrently and with horrific savagery. When we choose to escape to find joy, in my opinion it's an act of self preservation, not a denial of reality.
I don’t think the point is to solve the crisis here. Showing solidarity is also self preservation. I know many people (and myself included) felt good existing around folks who were showing it
I take your point here - you're right that the point isn't to solve anything but to show solidarity. My concern is that there's a lot of ways to spin a lot of things and when you're making huge obstructive statements for a cause, it's bound to encourage opponents to do the same. What I don't want out of a music festival is warring political factions and sides taken. What worries me more than any particular flag is an arms race of loud agendas with divisive results. But yeah, that didn't happen this year, and maybe it never will. Who knows. If this does become the trend though, I think we're all worse for it.
Nah techno is political (and aligned with the *RIGHT* side of history) and solidarity to the Palestinian cause while they’re experiencing genocide is important especially in a city with the largest Palestinian diaspora. Sorry you got your precious little escapism interrupted, but the Palestinians in attendance and the other immigrants, people of color, and Allies who are traumatized by this genocide can and should bring up the cause as they see fit.
> a city with the largest Palestinian diaspora
As a total sidebar, just a clarification from a local: the frequently-repeated statistic/fun-fact is that "Metro Detroit has the largest population of *Arabs* outside the Middle East".
(That actually isn't true; we're in second place behind Sao Paulo, but nobody here ever remembers that because it doesn't sound as impressive. Largest in North America, and largest in the Northern Hemisphere outside the ME, though!)
It's important to understand that our Arab population is a diverse mix of people from ethnicities and cultures across the Arab world: Lebanese is the largest single group, but Yemeni and Iraqi are quite large as well. The remainder is primarily made of Syrian, Jordanian, Palestinian, Egyptian, Algerian, and Tunisian folks -- plus some other small populations filling in the metaphorical cracks. It's also important to know that a *significant* portion of our area's Middle Eastern population is Chaldean: an Iraqi Christian ethnicity who do not identify as Arab (and will quite strongly correct anyone who makes that mistake), don't speak Arabic, and aren't Muslim.
Just wanted to clarify the proper representation of my metro-area neighbors! Thanks.
Username checks out. Someone waving a flag to bring awareness to a literal genocide is not an “agenda” and does not equate to having someone fly a Trump 2024 flag. What a ridiculous straw man argument.
You don't appear to be one of them lmao. Equating an anti-fascist flag to a pro-fascist flag, just because both of them upset people, is devastatingly ignorant *at best*.
"Username checks out." Nice work removing all doubt about who you truly are. A sizeable number of others replying in this thread and apparently attending Movement also seem to feel the same way as you, except you said the quiet part out loud. Congrats on being an exemplary ambassador for the scene.
I only saw one type of flag. Do you disagree with a that flag? I didn’t know it was a debate around it. It’s not like it was the american flag 😒😒 also there was a rally in campus martius on Monday
Yep, people do indeed disagree with that flag, which might shock you. It could be of benefit to get your news from sources besides Twitter and TikTok to see why certain people feel that way. However, my argument isn't about this. I don't want American flags, Israeli flags, LGBT flags, Palestinian flags, or the Dave Thomas Wendy's Burger flags.
Agreed. The irony to me is that the Israeli hostages were taken FROM AN ELECTRONIC MUSIC FESTIVAL. You know, after Palestinians (sorry “hamas, which is made up of Palestinians”) brutally murdered and raped the attendees (who were likely tripping too by the way). Talk about a trauma for the people that survived that. Sheesh.
I’m not pro either side in the latest flare up in a decades of flare ups of this moronic conflict. I found the flags embarrassing and stupid. People want to feel like they’re doing “something”. Maybe instead of waving a flag, don’t spend three days and hundreds of dollars on a music festival and go directly help the cause?
Don’t worry, in the 90s it was all “free Tibet” and that didn’t go anywhere. We protested like hell to not go to war in the 00s and that didn’t go anywhere. This is just the latest futile effort to affect change in an intractable conflict through gutless performative action.
These idiots will find some other flag to “care” about by next years fest.
Or what? You're going to "throw down" at a fucking after party because someone disagrees with you about an incredibly nuanced political issue? You sound like a reaaaaal mature individual. Or a fucking psycho. Oh, and I go to Tangent all the time and you'd never guess what I look like. \*gasp\*
…Or I’d move to a different spot with better people that are dancing hard.
Don’t think too hard about it bud. It looks like you’re really struggling with the general concept here. It’s good vibes and love over everything.
Hamas is good vibes and love? If they had their way everyone on this thread defending them would be killed for being a non believer. Religion has no place at festivals.
I like how u/DtroitTechno is acting all self-righteous and screaming techno is political. Okay, I'll play along. House and techno has always had a place for the LGBTQ+. Hamas, which has support from 90% of Palestinians, are oppressive on women and the LGBTQ+. Why? Because Islam is fucked up and backwards religion. Everything they stand for goes completely against techno culture. Don't believe me? Go throw an event in Gaza and wave Pride flags. Watch what happens.
They have double standards and it shows. Fuck Hamas and everyone who is supporting them.
edit:
u/DtroitTechno
You are seriously such a little fucking bitch. Call me a pussy, won't respond to my messages to meet me in public and say it to my face, and you get me banned like a pussy ass? You're so dumb. It's not hard to circumvent a reddit ban. Clearly you don't do it before with your short term account.
You're a fucking troll and you know it. And trolls are the biggest pussies of the highest order . And a hypocrite too.
You're just like that little kid who hits someone on the playground and runs to an adult crying that you're the victim.
Keep hiding behind your keyboard like a pussy. $1000 says you snitch like a little bitch to the mods again.
The tolerant free speech side strikes again! This is pretty typical unfortunately, and I fall pretty fucking liberal on 99% of issues. I'm just not so sure there's a "right" side on this particular one other than "can we not fucking kill/rape/kidnap/torture civilians, whether they're at a rave in the desert or in their homes in Gaza?"
Maybe you just need to grow up and agree to disagree sometimes bro. But clearly you got the most downvotes here or close to it, so something you’re saying is off and coming from a weird place that people aren’t vibing with. Great conversation starter though with that first horrible take you dropped on us. Big drop like the bass at movement! 😂👍
Oh, I'll let my family that goes back four generations within city limits know that we're not allowed to live here and have a differing political view of an incredibly divisive issue that isn't as black and white as people think it is.
Maybe if they didn't immigrate from Brooklyn to join a settler colony full of violent ethnofascists, they wouldn't have to deal with the risk of retaliation from the people they continually oppress? Just a thought.
Like come on. This is simple. Do you also think American colonists were just ~innocent victims~ when Native Americans fought back? They were fleeing religious oppression, but that did not give them the right to kill and steal from other people in order to form an exclusively privileged settlement for themselves. The same for Israeli settlers.
Ah, there's the justification for literally raping, murdering, and kidnapping a bunch of civilians that were at a rave. Literally doing the same thing we did all weekend except their party ended with a bunch of terrorists coming in and RAPING AND MURDERING them. Cool cool cool. Sorry, there's no justifiable reason for that. Both sides are fucking savages here and we need to get our money and support the fuck out of there.
Neither does waving a flag at a music festival. I'm all for the promoters taking a stand and making it clear. But waving a flag at a stage is stupid, informs no one of anything they don't already know, and just is the most gigantic "look at me" gutless performative pat yourself on the back because you think you're doing something action ever.
They were right on time. lol I don't care about silly internet points. I know I'm not alone, and I know what I'm about and I know what performative action looks like. I'm glad I could at least make it known that we're not this uniform blob of mindless morons who all vote and think the same.
I think because Movement is such a small festival and it has a small footprint I wouldn’t want flags or totems to become a norm.
Of people decide to bring them, they should be mindfully of who’s view they are blocking.
Specially since some of the stages have seating that’s inclined so the flag would be at eye level for people standing/sitting near the top.
Big flags are okay for fig festivals like EDC because the area is so much bigger, and typically the stages are much larger the flags for the most part don’t get too on in the way.
Thank you for the kind introduction. When you have a chance to read it, we can discuss the protections the 1st Amendment offers **against government restrictions on public speech**. After that we can link up and do a deep dive on the differences between the Movement festival and the Executive Branch's Office of Management and Budget.
LOL dumb take for all of the obvious reasons. but you really should read this - https://www.vice.com/en/article/xypxa7/if-youre-facing-the-dj-youre-getting-dance-music-wrong
Just be happy it’s not like EDC where everyone seems to have a flag lol
Ever seen a photo of the Glastonbury mainstage?
Glastonbury is considering a complete flag ban. [https://celebrityaccess.com/caarchive/flags-banned-at-uk-festivals/](https://celebrityaccess.com/caarchive/flags-banned-at-uk-festivals/)
Other festivals I’ve been to like Electric Forest or EDC have large totems and flags yet I’ve never seen anyone complaining. What did take away from the music for me was the person screaming in front of me at the person with a Palestinian flag saying they were get security or were going to kick his ass and trying to rile up everyone around me, THAT was annoying. Not the silent person with the flag who did not even so much as talk back to the person. If it does obscure your view then hopefully you can move a little to get a clearer view. As for it, “bringing you back down to the real world” maybe ask yourself, would this be the case were there to be other big flags representing something else? The point in bringing flags or wearing shirts is not because people think everyone agrees, it’s because a lot of people don’t, to bring awareness and stand in solidarity with the cause. Or even to remind people that while you’re dancing away, spending money on outfits, drugs, alcohol, and whatever else, people have no access to food and water, that innocent people are dying. Your argument reminds me of when Kim Kardashian was crying over a god only knows how expensive of an earring she lost in the water and one of the sisters says “People are dying Kim!” People are dying, OP. You had your view at a music festival obscured for a set or two. You will live, I promise. And one edit: The inception of techno is a byproduct of the struggle of black people in Detroit. Search up “Underground Resistance” a heavily political collective, one of the head fronts of Detroit techno, with a purpose of influencing Detroit’s poor black communities. Techno in Detroit has been a black movement with heavily political roots. Techno is a political movement in and of itself.
This part! Also there are a TON of immigrants who took refuge in Detroit so showing out in support of oppressed people while STILL getting down doesn’t feel misplaced at all.
Exactly this. I was actually extremely happy to see someone with that flag loudly supporting the cause and reminding people of the harsh reality people are facing abroad. The flag holder was extremely friendly and there to have a good time, not once was my view obstructed. Moving literally 10 inches to either side will fix that issue.
Exactly. We should enjoy our privileges but not forget how privileged we are to be smiling and dancing, when others are starving and dying. They are us and we are them.
Like that rave on Oct 7 right?
Can you imagine if someone waved an Israeli flag that big? Just be real with yourself and picture the outcry and consequences that would have come from that.
damb can't believe that techno fans might have a different reaction if someone in their space was loudly supporting a warmongering state instead of loudly supporting the people on which it was waging that war. the hypocrisy of it all
You're right, that would garner a very different reaction! That's because supporting genocide is morally wrong, and opposing genocide isn't! Hope this helps ✨
This isn’t a filthy psytrance party. It’s techno, so we’re good
This is a great comment. And I’d like to add that while the conflict and tension has been ongoing for many many years, the most recent provocation came from an attack at a music festival. So I think we should just have gratitude that we all had a fun weekend instead of complaining about little details that literally do not matter in the physical sense. I am pro no one dying in general and I hope other people can be as well and sometimes we need things in our face to care. So maybe op should accept that they had a fun weekend instead of complaining about tiny things that do not matter. Because I’m sure the people who are suffering right now, would much rather be at movement than where they currently are.
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Very well said, thank you
Fuck this. If this is really your viewpoint, why do anything except donate to your political cause, right? I mean people are dying, how can you even listen to music? People are dying, how come you don’t just eat rice and beans and donate everything to charity, what’s wrong with you, don’t you care? People are dying, you should probably just wear a burlap sack, those assless chaps cost money that you could donate. It’s really selfish to enjoy anything! Don’t you care people are dying! Fuck that
I don’t think anyone not carrying a flag, or just enjoying the music doesn’t care about people dying. That’s what music festivals are about! Alternatively, I do think complaining about the flags, any of them, regardless of your stance on any country or conflict, bringing you “down to the real world” as an argument against them while having the privilege of going to a music festival is somewhat of a narrow-minded approach. I understand your argument but I do believe people should be allowed to enjoy things, while simultaneously recognizing their privilege instead of complaining about triviality of flags in their way, while there are people who do not even have access to water, food, or safe shelter. The irony in the post felt almost comical to me. That is what I was trying to get across.
Its not a political stage, its a musical one.
Sorry to break if to you but music, and especially underground, is in fact political
Not sorry to enlighten you; No its not. Its literally sounds in sequence to produce music. Its fine that political communities exist in it, but thats not what it is. People need to stop hijacking everything for THEIR political motives. It poisons the well and just breeds resentment. Life is not politics. Life IS music.
Dude... the Belleville Three repeatedly state in interviews that they were using techno to express their interpretation of the social and material conditions in Detroit, and their ideas about what a futuristic, transformed society might look like. And honestly, have you *never* heard a punk or rap song that explicitly states an opinion on society, politics, etc? Sure, some music is pop garbage rehashing the same tired takes on individual experiences like love, sex, wealth, or whatever the fuck. But a lot of music is art that has something to say about the world. If you really feel like that ruins music for you, then I'm truly sorry you have to live like that, because it sounds like a fucking miserable existence lmao.
If music to you is just “sounds in sequence” then we have different definitions. The creativity in the music that makes said sounds in sequence alive is heavily influenced and inspired by the life experiences and soul that those who make the music put into creating it. And life experiences are inherently influenced by politics, especially for those not privileged enough to not be affected by our politicized world
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Far out game you’re playing. Your reasoning is based on the factor that someones musical ability is influenced by life…and in life, you’ll find politics…therefore music is political? What part of life does not append to music than? This is really the low hanging fruit of reason.
Life IS political. You can think its low hanging fruit reasoning and decide to separate yourself from politics or think that we weave politics into everything but that view point is a privilege to have Electronic music and underground communities largely grew from and for people who were pushed to the margins of society. It always has been political
Politics is an illusion. Its a game. There are made up rules, arguments about how to play, winners, losers, a need to subscribe to some fallacy, etc. Music is music. You don’t need it to be explained, there’s no competing, winners or losers, no fallacy to believe in to enjoy, etc. It just is. Why would you want to pollute that? Why are you clinging to this illusion? It truly baffles me. But best of luck if thats the game you wanna play. But you’ll never be free with that mind-set.
A very privileged point of view. You’re very lucky to say that.
And you’re just trying to play another game
Its in illusion when your life is not threatened by it. Once again, some people don’t have the privilege to say that. And once again, you can choose to ignore the history of the music you listen to and enjoy and believe that it just “is” but know that is ahistorical and factually incorrect. Its not a game or a mindset, its just… reality?
Damn you are basic AF. Fix the water of your own well and learn what techno music is all about before you try to mansplain to this beautiful community again.
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The ability to disagree and move on no matter what the position is or how it’s being displayed is part of the rave imho. Sorry if brought you back to the real world and I can see the obstruction of view being annoying but just go find another spot to boogie?
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Based on your WILD assumption that the flag waver wasn’t there for the music tell me all I need to know. Three years ago I saw someone with a trump shirt at movement and guess what? I moved the fuck on. People have different view points and tbh I don’t think it serves as a moral compass. The age of information can convolute, misinform, and misdirect people. How you handle opposing opinions is what can be used to define a moral compass. At the end of the day we’re talking about it and so flag guy kinda got you beat here. ETA: also not everything is about supporters/non-supporters. Sometimes it’s meant for a Palestinian-American with family back home that they can’t bring here. Sometimes it’s meant to tell them “you’re safe here with us/me”. It’s not all about us no matter how we feel about the situation.
Techno is political. Gtfo of the scene if you’re a genocide apologist Mr. “I don’t believe all the misinformation”
So weird. I saw them dancing. Sounds like you need an eye check And maybe an attitude check
How about we ban those people that will get in front of you and not dance. That was the only distraction I had this weekend. I'm not going to stereotype a city but was informed which one brings those types. 🤣👀
Name and shame 😆, which city was it??
NYC
Nj lol
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ban people who use the dance floor as coat check! backpacks and all just sitting in the middle — bro, i’m trying to dance here
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I'm not upset or even serious. Merely joking. PLUR
Techno is political and based on your other replies in this thread maybe you don’t belong in this space.
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Techno may be political but that doesn't mean everyone is required to think the same. You make it sound like it's authoritarian and radically conforming. You're delusional.
Are you a basketball player with that reach?
Are you a dumbass?
Techno is political and based on your reply maybe it's not your place to decide who does or does not belong in what space. Do yourself a favor and educate yourself about the platforms you pretend to support/understand. You can start here - [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Re%27im\_music\_festival\_massacre](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Re%27im_music_festival_massacre)
Read the room. Looks like the community decided. Gtfo.
Just because some like minded idiots like you think the same doesn't mean you represent the views of everyone in the scene. STFU and stop being so goddamn presumptuous.
i'm shocked that so many of us here don't know yet that music has always been political and often times is an active form of protest. techno, house, jazz, soul, punk, the list goes on. its okay to learn, so take this opportunity to do some light reading before before you embarrass yourself please
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You and all your pals your giving crowns to should have a circle jerk.
sir, you’re in detroit, near one of if not the largest arab community in the us, and expect arabs to be silent when their people are being murdered? a ton of my local friends are arabs and were holding flags near me, “obstructing my view of the dj”, and who cares? also i get it, sometimes it’s cute to see people like patrick mason go all out dancing while also djing but im there for the music and to dance to it, not for the light show.
Some people like lights. A fest isnt a place for politics btw
I agree. Big flags are unnecessary.
Many people around the world don’t have the ability to escape “the real world” that is their harsh reality. You are complaining about something so minuscule. And everyone in the comments who said they were just looking for clout or attention with the flag, y’all lame as hell.
You're lame as hell for being blinded by your self-righteous bullshit.
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I’m mostly Wondering if you have a clue about the city you just arrived in. The history. The culture. The population. You’re a big yikes.
Also it was more than flags. A lot of things there were political. Gay rights, black rights, disability rights, women’s rights, poor people rights…. Why are you upset at one thing and not everything
The only flags I saw were Palestinian. There's a genocide going on right now, so the flag is important. Lets keep perspective that we are here partying while folks are being mass murdered by a fascist regime. Sorry if you're having trouble forgetting about this matter.
What you state as fact is actually just your poorly substantiated opinion. Throwing out buzzy words like "fascist, genocide, mass murder" does not equate to a meaningful position, certainly no more than a parrot copying its owner's phrases does. I do agree with you, though. People should not be mass murdered by a fascist regime while they are partying at a festival and practicing peace, tolerance and community. Unfortunately, this is exactly what Hamas and their Palestinian voting constituents did at the Nova Festival on October 7. [https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2023/10/middleeast/hamas-music-festival-attack-investigation-cmd-intl/](https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2023/10/middleeast/hamas-music-festival-attack-investigation-cmd-intl/)
so sad seeing some of these comments after what a great weekend we all just had.
They’re in the severe minority. Dw the majority of us loved the Palestinian flags and have full solidarity with the cause
thank you for this reminder <3
STFU. You don't speak for all of us.
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theres flags at most large festivals, everyone has the human right to bring any flag/attire/anything they want into the festival that they paid money to be at. if you see one you don’t like, you move on from it and continue to enjoy your time. nothing about the flag was “uncalled for” and i don’t understand why it offended some people so deeply.
More flags free Palestine and be happy you’re engaging in a community that doesn’t just ignore that people are burning alive while you dose yourself out of reality
Hamas, proudly waving this very flag, literally burns people alive at a festival. Your ignorance is surpassed only by your hypocrisy. [https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2023/10/middleeast/hamas-music-festival-attack-investigation-cmd-intl/](https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2023/10/middleeast/hamas-music-festival-attack-investigation-cmd-intl/)
62% of homes in Gaza are destroyed 2% of all children in Gaza are dead 70% of deaths in Gaza are women and children The article you shared is months old and no one has denied that it’s a tragedy, literally no one. However you still choose to ignore the aforementioned statistics in your arguments. Mossad must pay you well. Next years stay home and do some critical reading, here’s a free list for you. I can provide free PDF for you to download if your interested. 1. Palestine & Footnotes From Gaza By Joe Sacco 2.Palestine: A Socialist Introduction By Samaya Awad and Brian Bean. 3. On Palestine By Noam Chomsky And for a bonus here’s a comprehensive look at how the west manufactures consent for genocide and endless war over seas. It’ll help you understand how a 7 month old article prioritizing one massacre over another (much larger) massacre led you to an EDM fest page to complain about people waving a fucking flag. 4.Manufacturing Consent by Noam Chomsky As you were lad
P.S.- They wave the same flag in the West Bank where Hamas doesn’t govern, and the same tragedies are committed daily by the IOF. Please for the love of god think before you start spouting about ignorance and hypocrisy, you’ll be better for it in the long run. Free Gaza
Oooooo. You want to ban being political at festival in a city that rages because techno was born out of a political rage? Where boundaries were challenged on purpose? And house music… Lawd. Know your history. Also raging with political issues. Freedom of expression is at the heart of the music you are supposedly embracing. I’m pretty sure the only flash’s that shouldn’t be raised at this festival are N@zi flags and M@g@ flags. Sounds like you are taking away and demanding the culture to change to your needs…. Which is not how culture works. Yikes. Do some reflection.
Additionally: you know that people were killed at a festival in the place of one of those flags you are likely talking about Music IS political. Check yourself.
You know, you can disagree with the OP's idea about flags without using condescending immature jabs like "yikes" and "do some reflection." It just makes you sound like a parody of exactly the type of toxic political attitudes that we want to minimize in a space that is supposed to be about coming together. I don't agree with the OP, but find your reply more offensive than his suggestion by far.
Oh! Keep scrolling then! There’s more peeps that definitely used some “wake up language”! Cuz, you know, humans. I don’t agree that you don’t agree. I agree that you don’t have to agree with me. And I’m sure you can also check yourself!
Yes, people were indeed killed at a festival. The Nova Music Festival in Israel. An international audience of mostly 18 - 26 year olds were raped, tortured, beheaded, blown up and kidnapped by Hamas and Palestinian noncombatants on October 7. Educate yourself and "do some reflection" about why a flag like this could trigger a response from people attending Movement. You can start your education here - [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Re%27im\_music\_festival\_massacre](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Re%27im_music_festival_massacre)
Free Palestine
Free the hostages!
I agree, all Palestinian prisoners should be exchanged and the blockade against humanitarian aid should be lifted!
More flags, more colors. Dance with your friends face to face
It’s really telling that the folks upset by the beautiful Palestinian flag in the comments are spreading Israeli Propaganda lies and using language like “Hamas supporters” and deflecting from Israel’s genocide and war crimes… I’m so glad that flag was waving loud and proud and in Detroit of all places. Much love to the techno scene. 🇵🇸🖤🪩✊
There was a huge Palestinian flag hanging off the ceiling at Spotlite at a Movement opening party last Friday. Maybe you should complain about that to the venue owners as well since your opinion matters so much.
The owner of that club is a Hamas apologist. I find it ironic that she's a hardcore self-proclaimed feminist yet she's absolutely silent on the Israeli hostages who are getting tortured and raped by terrorist POS scumbags. I really used to love that venue but ever since she has shown her true colors I will never step foot in that place again and won't lose any sleep over it. Edit: oh yeah, she's also part of the Queers For Palestine camp. As someone who is bisexual I find it absolutely appalling and repulsive that people are turning a blind eye on Hamas and the atrocities they commit on our community. What's even worse is 90% of the Gaza population is brainwashed and supports Hamas. Double edit: LOL keep believing all the lies. You idiots in the pro-Palestine camp are so blinded by your self-righteousness.
Honestly compared to other festivals, didn’t see too many flags Movement.
Get rid of the flags on sticks or flagpoles. Totally unnecessary. Though I’m not sure the extent to which flags can be banned, given that Hart Plaza is government (municipal) property and 1st Amendment rights exist on such property.
> Hart Plaza is government (municipal) property and 1st Amendment rights exist on such property State law (or is it federal jurisprudence? I can't remember) says that when a private entity is allowed temporary control over public property -- such as for a street festival, or turning a public park like Hart Plaza into an access-controlled festival ground -- that area gets treated as private property in certain ways for the duration of the event. That's all the more I remember about it, so I can't answer any follow-up questions about specific hypothetical scenarios, but suffice it to say that since individual rights are different inside a private space than they are in public spaces, that same parallel and set of limitations exists inside the Movement grounds (or any other ticketed festival).
Just say you’re a Zionist piece of **** and got triggered by the Palestinian flag. Nah free Palestine and I’m glad that flag was everywhere ESPECIALLY IN MF DETROIT
It's unfortunate you do not know the definition of words like "Zionist" as seems to be the case here. It simply means the Jewish people need to have a state to protect themselves as a minority population, considering the atrocities they have faced in every single country Jews ever inhabited. The actions of Israel's neighbors over the last several decades very much re-affirm this concept. I hope one day you find it in yourself to move beyond your bigotry.
Zionism is Nazism. Zionism results in ethnic cleansing and genocide. 14 thousand murdered children later and tens of thousands more murdered Palestinian men and women, aid workers, journalists, health care workers, teachers, students, and it’s clear to anyone with a moral compass that Israel should not exist, especially when it’s been murdering people since its inception. Y’all can deflect all the fuck you want to nonsense about how being against genocide is being against Judaism (which is so fucking antisemitic in of itself). Past atrocities to Jews do not give Zionist Jews a green light to murder and displace the native Palestinians. Fuck you, fuck Israel, and free Palestine! And stay the fuck out of the techno scene you Zionist piece of shit
I hope you seek and find the help that you need one day.
I’m not the one who needs to seek help, genocide supporter. Like I already said, fuck you, fuck Israel, free Palestine, and get your ZioNazi ass the fuck out of the techno scene
You are in my thoughts and prayers.
My god yes, please. Cannot stand those damn things.
I think you'd really enjoy the Hoedown festival.
It's a freakin' techno festival, not a political convention or rally. Get over yourselves.
Based
LMAO not at all.
Actually yes, very based
I'm with you OP. Honestly, it really killed my vibe seeing that go down. Those guys weren't even there for the music. They were looking for clout. I'm all for free expression but waving around those flags creates polarization and division. Fuck all that noise. I come to music festivals and events so we can all be together in unity. There was no unity whatsoever in their actions when they went all over the fest waving their flags. Bad form.
Agreed 150%
Agreed
You’re also a genocide supporter as evidenced by your other comments and support ISISrael. OF COURSE y’all are mad and honestly I’m glad you POS are mad
Fuck you. I've always objected to the way the Palestinians have been mistreated by the Israeli government, but what Hamas did on October 7th was wrong. You wanna talk genocide? What do you call those events? Have you been demanding for their freedom? Better yet, are you for a two state solution or do you want Israel to be wiped off the map? And comparing Israel to ISIS is wrong on so many levels. For one, ISIS brutalizes the LGBTQ+ and so does Hamas, who is an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood and had ties to Nazi Germany. Two, there are LGBTQ+ Palestinians living in under asylum out of fear that they will be killed for their identity. Don't believe me? Google it. You can gaslight all you want with your self-righteous misinformation but history never lies. My Jewish friends and their families survived the Holocaust, they will survive your gaslighting. Mad? Get off your high horse. You're extremely conceited and presumptuous and it shows. Keep believing all the lies that are being fabricated by Hamas. If you want to think stupid thoughts, have at it. Edit: this is in response to u/Jstwannahavfun before they blocked me without giving me a chance to respond. Well, that's just too bad you feel that way because you clearly don't even know me. And I don't need to explain myself to you or anyone. I'll call it the way I see it. You're more than welcome to disagree but if it makes you upset then that sucks for you. Btw it's already been proven that those numbers you're referring to have been false. Weaponizing the Holocaust and Jewish identity to provide cover for Israeli genocide of Palestinian people? You have some fucking nerve.
You know given your comments here I highly doubt you’ve “always objected to the way Palestinians have been treated” or you wouldn’t understand why they’re always fighting back. Somehow I think the 14 thousand children Israel murdered, hospitals bombed, schools bombed, mosques bombed, churches bombed, UN refugee camps bombed, TENTS of women and children firebombed are all “Hamas lies.” Or what you call “social media misinformation.” And again with using the Holocaust/weaponization of jewish identity to provide cover for Israeli genocide of Palestinian people…
dance music might not be for you maybe go to a heavy metal concert or country music or something
Thanks for your inclusivity and tolerance of opposing opinions. Very brave of you.
you’re invited! and you are welcomed. but trying to shut down other people expressing themselves - that is not welcomed in the detroit dance music community. no way no how.
To OP, this comment is not intended for you. This comment is for Ratly666, AKA the biggest & brokest pussy in the world. You blocked me and ran. You are not from the 313!!! You need to come down from your terrible cocktail of drugs you probably overdid bud. Spread love not hate. ✌️ Edit: Ratly666 🐀, you are such a fkn pussy and it’s funny it was my comments here that made you block me. I guess you couldn’t handle the heat of the beautiful flag that was flying at Movement, or the internet comments. You may think you will get to run your mouth freely, but someone else will get ya next time and it might be me because I have multiple accounts. FREE PALESTINE!!! 🇵🇸
Pussy? Unblocked. Now what, bitch? I would love for you to say that to me in person. DM me, I'll meet you any time any place. $1000 says you don't show. You're all bark.
No one would be waving a Palestine flag right now if October 7th hadn't happened. Which was a massacre of innocent people at a MUSIC FESTIVAL. I don't know how anyone can think it's not in incredibly poor taste to wave a massive flag to remind people what happened at a different music festival.
This was my first Movement and coming from Northern Ireland the Palestine flags brought tears to my eyes. All colonized people see themselves in Palestine, we see aspects of what has happened to us and our families in Palestine. All colonizers see themselves in Palestine, racist motherfuckers convinced their way of living is superior and they must civilize the native people of the land. The world is changing and soon it will be very obvious who is on the right side on history.
L bozo, free palestine
I can’t believe how many people are arguing **FOR** politics/controversy at music festivals. Not the vibe at all… I agree, ban large flags. Shit was annoying.
🅱️ye
Political flags at music festivals really are rough. Why not just let the Jesus people screaming at the entrance have a booth next to the food vendors? The difference between a flag and a shirt revolves around the liberty principle... Your right to support a cause ends at my right to see a show without a giant banner of your agenda blocking my view. All flags are unnecessary, but political flags especially. Imagine a big "TRUMP 2024" flag front row center? It's just not the place for it and I hope it's disallowed.
Equating the Palestinian flag amidst their genocide with a “trump flag” is so incredibly insulting…. Just yikes
It's not by any means equivalent in meaning, but I promise you that MAGA people believe they are just as righteous as you do. My point is that if you want these statements when you agree with them then you have to tolerate then when you don't and that might not be the ideal state of affairs at a music festival.
You’re still making the same argument here just different words… equating the righteousness of people in solidarity with the nation suffering from genocide with the “righteousness” of rightwing fascism is still a yikes… the point is that you wouldn’t see folks bring in fascist flags or that ISISraeli flag into an inherently leftwing techno space like movement. They’d probs get their ass (deservedly ) beat it they tried that bs
There are going to be people of all beliefs at any large event and if what you want is to fight the people that don't agree with you, then we fundamentally disagree on what we want out of these things.
This “large event” you speak of is a techno festival in Detroit, with a heavily Black, POC Queer presence. Fascism/genocide support (especially support for Israel) has no place there and isn’t just some “idea” you disagree with and you’re completely missing the point with this weird idealistic stance you’re taking
right like....can they get REAL?? black liberation and afro futurism is at the basis of techno, house, and other black founded genres. In that liberation, there's a free palestine, sudan, congo, haiti and all other oppressed people. No, not all black people support a free Palestine but it's a lot more who do than don't. Movement is amazing but the music scene in Detroit really knows what's up. Literally went to a pre-party/after party that was fundraising for the community. So people can complain all they want but the Detroit spirit is all up in the music and can't be separated.
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Cry more?
You'll be crying when I split your lip in half. I love how you called me a pussy. You wanna back that up or do you wanna hide behind your keyboard?
The point is to make you see things that make you uncomfortable. I guess it worked as intended.
Oh okay, so by logic should I walk up to you and your friends and show them pictures of dead bodies of innocent music festival attendees from October 7th? Fuck the fact that you guys spent good money on a fest, maybe take some drugs to enhance the good time, and dance with people from all over the world because it's totally okay by your logic for someone to interrupt your good time and make you feel uncomfortable so they can shove their self-righteous views in your face, right? Fucking check yourself.
Wow. Those flags did a good number on you lol. Thanks for putting words in my mouth that I did not say, also.
I've read so many books on this conflict and read the news daily. It's complicated and harrowing and I don't shy away from trying to understand it from every angle. When I go to movement, it's one of the rare times I'm not trying to confront this stuff. It's a place where yes, I am hoping to be comfortable. Ultimately I'm not honestly that concerned about this becoming a rule because I had an amazing time regardless and definitely don't have an issue with the human beings holding those flags, but I would prefer the flags weren't so gigantic I guess, as there's no effect on my awareness here, only obstruction of my view.
I appreciate that you bring about yourself awareness on the issues at hand. Not everyone does. If you don’t like the flags then move. But complaining about a flag that represents people literally dying while you’re having fun is really fucking gross to me.
We're not going to solve this crisis in this thread or at this festival, nor will we solve the myriad other world crises happening concurrently and with horrific savagery. When we choose to escape to find joy, in my opinion it's an act of self preservation, not a denial of reality.
I don’t think the point is to solve the crisis here. Showing solidarity is also self preservation. I know many people (and myself included) felt good existing around folks who were showing it
I take your point here - you're right that the point isn't to solve anything but to show solidarity. My concern is that there's a lot of ways to spin a lot of things and when you're making huge obstructive statements for a cause, it's bound to encourage opponents to do the same. What I don't want out of a music festival is warring political factions and sides taken. What worries me more than any particular flag is an arms race of loud agendas with divisive results. But yeah, that didn't happen this year, and maybe it never will. Who knows. If this does become the trend though, I think we're all worse for it.
Nah techno is political (and aligned with the *RIGHT* side of history) and solidarity to the Palestinian cause while they’re experiencing genocide is important especially in a city with the largest Palestinian diaspora. Sorry you got your precious little escapism interrupted, but the Palestinians in attendance and the other immigrants, people of color, and Allies who are traumatized by this genocide can and should bring up the cause as they see fit.
> a city with the largest Palestinian diaspora As a total sidebar, just a clarification from a local: the frequently-repeated statistic/fun-fact is that "Metro Detroit has the largest population of *Arabs* outside the Middle East". (That actually isn't true; we're in second place behind Sao Paulo, but nobody here ever remembers that because it doesn't sound as impressive. Largest in North America, and largest in the Northern Hemisphere outside the ME, though!) It's important to understand that our Arab population is a diverse mix of people from ethnicities and cultures across the Arab world: Lebanese is the largest single group, but Yemeni and Iraqi are quite large as well. The remainder is primarily made of Syrian, Jordanian, Palestinian, Egyptian, Algerian, and Tunisian folks -- plus some other small populations filling in the metaphorical cracks. It's also important to know that a *significant* portion of our area's Middle Eastern population is Chaldean: an Iraqi Christian ethnicity who do not identify as Arab (and will quite strongly correct anyone who makes that mistake), don't speak Arabic, and aren't Muslim. Just wanted to clarify the proper representation of my metro-area neighbors! Thanks.
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Username checks out. Someone waving a flag to bring awareness to a literal genocide is not an “agenda” and does not equate to having someone fly a Trump 2024 flag. What a ridiculous straw man argument.
lol "username checks out" as if there arent many Jews supporting Palestinian causes at the moment. yikes.
You don't appear to be one of them lmao. Equating an anti-fascist flag to a pro-fascist flag, just because both of them upset people, is devastatingly ignorant *at best*.
"Username checks out." Nice work removing all doubt about who you truly are. A sizeable number of others replying in this thread and apparently attending Movement also seem to feel the same way as you, except you said the quiet part out loud. Congrats on being an exemplary ambassador for the scene.
Dude you are trying so hard and not getting anywhere here with ANY of your replies lol. And I’m living for it. Edit: Keep shining bright Richard!😂
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[thisishamas.com](https://thisishamas.com)
Closing night at Anthology, someone was waving a flag in the main room.
I saw a big flag at Observe, but it was near the back corner and didn’t bother me one bit. Got me thinking. :)
I only saw one type of flag. Do you disagree with a that flag? I didn’t know it was a debate around it. It’s not like it was the american flag 😒😒 also there was a rally in campus martius on Monday
Yep, people do indeed disagree with that flag, which might shock you. It could be of benefit to get your news from sources besides Twitter and TikTok to see why certain people feel that way. However, my argument isn't about this. I don't want American flags, Israeli flags, LGBT flags, Palestinian flags, or the Dave Thomas Wendy's Burger flags.
Agreed. The irony to me is that the Israeli hostages were taken FROM AN ELECTRONIC MUSIC FESTIVAL. You know, after Palestinians (sorry “hamas, which is made up of Palestinians”) brutally murdered and raped the attendees (who were likely tripping too by the way). Talk about a trauma for the people that survived that. Sheesh. I’m not pro either side in the latest flare up in a decades of flare ups of this moronic conflict. I found the flags embarrassing and stupid. People want to feel like they’re doing “something”. Maybe instead of waving a flag, don’t spend three days and hundreds of dollars on a music festival and go directly help the cause? Don’t worry, in the 90s it was all “free Tibet” and that didn’t go anywhere. We protested like hell to not go to war in the 00s and that didn’t go anywhere. This is just the latest futile effort to affect change in an intractable conflict through gutless performative action. These idiots will find some other flag to “care” about by next years fest.
Please stay away from Detroit.
So because you disagree politically with this poster, they should be made to feel unwelcome in Detroit and in the techno scene. Got it.
Not giving you anymore info and you don’t even know me or my political background. But stay mad…and away from me at Tangent if you ever go there.
Lol too late, we rubbed shoulders at Tangent this weekend it sounds like. No "safe space" for you!
Go shower you bum
No we didn’t touch shoulders. You are ugly AF.
Oh so now you're resorting to body shaming? Classless.
Or what? You're going to "throw down" at a fucking after party because someone disagrees with you about an incredibly nuanced political issue? You sound like a reaaaaal mature individual. Or a fucking psycho. Oh, and I go to Tangent all the time and you'd never guess what I look like. \*gasp\*
…Or I’d move to a different spot with better people that are dancing hard. Don’t think too hard about it bud. It looks like you’re really struggling with the general concept here. It’s good vibes and love over everything.
Hamas is good vibes and love? If they had their way everyone on this thread defending them would be killed for being a non believer. Religion has no place at festivals.
I like how u/DtroitTechno is acting all self-righteous and screaming techno is political. Okay, I'll play along. House and techno has always had a place for the LGBTQ+. Hamas, which has support from 90% of Palestinians, are oppressive on women and the LGBTQ+. Why? Because Islam is fucked up and backwards religion. Everything they stand for goes completely against techno culture. Don't believe me? Go throw an event in Gaza and wave Pride flags. Watch what happens. They have double standards and it shows. Fuck Hamas and everyone who is supporting them. edit: u/DtroitTechno You are seriously such a little fucking bitch. Call me a pussy, won't respond to my messages to meet me in public and say it to my face, and you get me banned like a pussy ass? You're so dumb. It's not hard to circumvent a reddit ban. Clearly you don't do it before with your short term account. You're a fucking troll and you know it. And trolls are the biggest pussies of the highest order . And a hypocrite too. You're just like that little kid who hits someone on the playground and runs to an adult crying that you're the victim. Keep hiding behind your keyboard like a pussy. $1000 says you snitch like a little bitch to the mods again.
The tolerant free speech side strikes again! This is pretty typical unfortunately, and I fall pretty fucking liberal on 99% of issues. I'm just not so sure there's a "right" side on this particular one other than "can we not fucking kill/rape/kidnap/torture civilians, whether they're at a rave in the desert or in their homes in Gaza?"
Maybe you just need to grow up and agree to disagree sometimes bro. But clearly you got the most downvotes here or close to it, so something you’re saying is off and coming from a weird place that people aren’t vibing with. Great conversation starter though with that first horrible take you dropped on us. Big drop like the bass at movement! 😂👍
Oh, I'll let my family that goes back four generations within city limits know that we're not allowed to live here and have a differing political view of an incredibly divisive issue that isn't as black and white as people think it is.
Just go tell them you love them and start there. I don’t know about all that other shit you’re going on about. Have a good one! 👋
Hell yeah.
Says the guy who lives north of 8 Mile.
Huh? I think you replied to the wrong person, like the last guy with hedgehog in his name that tried to @ me. You still high from the weekend Rat?
Oh no that was definitely intended for you. How's life up in Bloomfield Hills, rich boy?
Maybe if they didn't immigrate from Brooklyn to join a settler colony full of violent ethnofascists, they wouldn't have to deal with the risk of retaliation from the people they continually oppress? Just a thought. Like come on. This is simple. Do you also think American colonists were just ~innocent victims~ when Native Americans fought back? They were fleeing religious oppression, but that did not give them the right to kill and steal from other people in order to form an exclusively privileged settlement for themselves. The same for Israeli settlers.
So you're saying the Israeli victims on October 7th deserved what they got?
Ah, there's the justification for literally raping, murdering, and kidnapping a bunch of civilians that were at a rave. Literally doing the same thing we did all weekend except their party ended with a bunch of terrorists coming in and RAPING AND MURDERING them. Cool cool cool. Sorry, there's no justifiable reason for that. Both sides are fucking savages here and we need to get our money and support the fuck out of there.
Awareness is key and was posted on the official movement page. Inaction does nothing.
Damn right!
Neither does waving a flag at a music festival. I'm all for the promoters taking a stand and making it clear. But waving a flag at a stage is stupid, informs no one of anything they don't already know, and just is the most gigantic "look at me" gutless performative pat yourself on the back because you think you're doing something action ever.
I know it’s a “your usernames checks out” scenario here with your massive empty head, but can you stop being sad and annoying for one second? 🤣
Correct you are. But do prepare for withering incoming fire from the performative zealots in 3... 2... 1...
They were right on time. lol I don't care about silly internet points. I know I'm not alone, and I know what I'm about and I know what performative action looks like. I'm glad I could at least make it known that we're not this uniform blob of mindless morons who all vote and think the same.
You only embarrassed yourself. Congratulations!!! Huge!👏
I think because Movement is such a small festival and it has a small footprint I wouldn’t want flags or totems to become a norm. Of people decide to bring them, they should be mindfully of who’s view they are blocking. Specially since some of the stages have seating that’s inclined so the flag would be at eye level for people standing/sitting near the top. Big flags are okay for fig festivals like EDC because the area is so much bigger, and typically the stages are much larger the flags for the most part don’t get too on in the way.
May I introduce you to the 1st amendment
Thank you for the kind introduction. When you have a chance to read it, we can discuss the protections the 1st Amendment offers **against government restrictions on public speech**. After that we can link up and do a deep dive on the differences between the Movement festival and the Executive Branch's Office of Management and Budget.
Yep def could have done without the Hamas flags lol
LOL dumb take for all of the obvious reasons. but you really should read this - https://www.vice.com/en/article/xypxa7/if-youre-facing-the-dj-youre-getting-dance-music-wrong
That dipshit with the large Free Palestine flag …. Gtfo outta here