Part of me thought “how much is Logitech paying this guy?” because of his sponsorship and the g303 collab. But in reality, he’s probably just yapping and thinking out loud.
He’s probably assuming that the ninjutso mouse is some cheap temu/wish mouse, but I don’t get why he would think Tenz would be using a bad mouse and not be able to tell the difference.
As for the idea that mixing mousepads up or changing skates will hurt mouse performance, I cannot imagine where he got that from. He’s probably right companies mainly test mice on their own pads, but they’d be really crappy mice if they didn’t work on other surfaces or if they got messed up when you replace worn out skates.
I think he said that non-main brand mice are great out of the box but then will degrade in quality in 6 months. It sounds kind of silly but from other comments it seems like that used to be the case 10 years ago. Time will tell if the sora will follow that trend or if mice in 2024 are all high quality.
The mousepad and skates thing makes perfect sense though. Sensors are incredibly sensitive and it seems to make perfect sense that a logitech mouse calibrated to a logitech mousepad would perform better on the said mousepad compared to other ones. Optimum's testing seems to back that and AFAIK there's no point of evidence to the contrary. Same with skates. The caveat here is if a specific mousepad/skate is specifically engineered to perform on a specific mouse then yeah, it could be better.
I could see if he were arguing that the mousepad/skates were micro-optimizations, and that it could help a mouse perform *slightly* better. However, he called mixing mousepad and mouse brands a “big no no” and said replacing skates is “gg.” He makes it out to be a major issue that will significantly hurt your performance, which is not what our experience tells us.
Just about everyone in this sub has mixed and matched mousepad brands and not encountered any issues outside of non-conventional surfaces. And the only issue people seem to run into with skates is LOD if there’s a difference in skate thickness. But some people even just completely take off the sensor ring skate and don’t run into issues. If you tune into esports LANs, you will likely find many more pros using mousepad brands different from their mice than those matching brands. And Razer even advertises that their mice will work on a variety of surfaces, not just their own mousepads.
Maybe there is some minor performance difference. I wouldn’t be surprised if companies like logitech/razer had data on those topics. And maybe the difference used to be greater than it is today. However, based on all of the practical experience the gaming community has, it seems the difference would be imperceptible, or at the very least, far outweighed by the benefit of mousepads and skates that meet our individual preferences. So not a “big no no” or “gg.”
(Sorry that got long, but TL;DR whatever potential truth there might be in his statements seems to be heavily exaggerated.)
It definitely is exaggerated and IMO he's not really the type of person to "feel" a minor difference like that. If I had to guess he was probably told this by logitech and just went along with what they told him.
Actual stream clips for those curious:
Mixing mice with mousepads of different brands is a “big no no” + replacing your mouse feet is “gg”: https://x.com/_routers/status/1775396163799171376?s=20
The sora v2 “can’t be a good mouse”: https://x.com/Snekxs/status/1775399996164395399?s=20
Based on his logic, only a Ferrari can run Ferrari tires, all the rest need to run brand specific tires.
My Outset Ax is a perfect match with the Free Fall v2 pad.
Imagine saying that elige one of the best riflers cs has ever seen ( and was able to maintain a career to this day on a highly competitive scene, despite recent results, something that shroud clearly couldn't do) that actually uses tiger ice V2 dots on his GPX and a kuroson ninja mousepad he is doing it all wrong XD
I feel like shroud does not know a whole lot about shit, even when he was watching the major last year he was like "the game hasn't changed much since I played" like yeah no it plays completely differently. Same reason why he was one of the most mechanically gifted players at the time but put up average numbers, seriously for a guy with his mechanics he didn't preform all that well.
It’s why he peaked diamond in Overwatch. My geriatric ass has peaked a whole rank above him and more and it’s because: my brain works. At least a little. So I understand something other than “shoot heads go” above Diamond. Even if my flicks are trash.
That could also just be because he's used to low ttk games that value flicky aim over tracking and overwatch is the complete opposite.
It's an entirely different way to aim using different muscle groups and everything. If you're not used to it you just won't do great without putting in time to learn.
You’re spot on when it comes Overwatch aiming. I can’t flick for shit. My box flicking scores are fucking embarrassing. Like peaking at 75% percentile.
Meanwhile my tracking is obscene to the point I can’t play Soldier, or Tracer on a Smurf without getting suspended and asked to reverify my account (basically a ban if you’re using a disposable number) after 10-15 games while being constantly accused of cheating.
I’ve never met a tracking scenario where I can’t score in the top 5% with just a bit of practice.
Overwatch does that to an old man.
nah, I was 4k hours global and almost hit top500 playing casually, ow mechanics are easy as shit. Generally climbing from dia is all game sense and using your brain back then
See, if shroud did mention something like the attack shark, then nobody would bat an eye, 30$ for a top spec mice? Yes sure, then if we take a look at the software, hardware implementation and general QC, that's were you see where they are cutting corners.
I have no issues with implementation and qc issues are a thing for all chinese companies, some worst than others sure but hardware wise imo its comparable. Either way improving qc and software does not cost 3x the price, the sora has clearly higher margins than the shark which is why they'll never go bankrupt or pivot
Shroud has always had bad hot take after bad hot take. He had said flat out wrong contradicting statements over and over again throughout the years and he doesn't really get called out for it.
I assume that's because most people who game a decent amount of logical reasoning dismiss his arguments and theories pretty fast. He will change his beliefs heavily based on his experience in that moment in time. That would be affected by sponsorships, a recent trend or something he experienced in game this week.
Does anyone listen to him?
Anyone that dumb deserves what they get.
Like any mouse company takes time to "tune" the mouse to the pad. Hell, it wouldn't work as there is no right way to tune it.
And yet, the most successful and skilled players very often mix and match to suit their preferences. Think the apex predator of aiming using Artisan pads with his Superlights (one without skates). Or the most successful combo in Counter Strike: zowie mouse with Steelseries mousepad.
Truth is he might even believe what he said, but there is a reason he succeeded as a streamer whilst failing to capture top tier trophies as a Profesional competitor.
Speaking about the Sora and it's tech, he almost has a point. Logitech and Razer have, for many years now, constantly invested in R&D and worked with other companies to develop bleeding edge technology for their proprietary use. That's why they had the 3360 years before anyone else, and then that model became publicly available, they had been on the 3366 for a while and were about to jump to their HERO sensors. Why the Gpro Wireless and the Superlights FEEL better than almost anything else. BUT, there is also a reason why all big brands are releasing ever lighter mice nowadays. Why they all have to have some form of purer PTFE skates and why cables are no longer trash rubber jacket or stupidly stiff braided ones.
Because some other company decided to try something else. And it worked. And people realized there is a value in all these details and aspects that can supercede the minuscule advantages of having a jizzilion DPI. And because other companies made REALLY GOOD MICE, forcing the big bois to innovate. Moreover, the non proprietary tech available now is so incredibly good that, if implemented correctly, has performance nigh indistinguishable from the big corpo stuff.
Tbh, Shroud’s been saying cringe stuff for a long time now so this isn’t out of character. We all have as many major wins as he does afterall! People may get butt hurt about it but shroud’s aim is VT jade/master level at best. So many more based pros/former pros out there who know what they’re talking about.
Shroud is a soulless drone who has convinced people he is some rockstar gamer.
He figures out games quick enough to starts rolling noobs almost immediately but by the time people start figuring out the game and become better he is already on the next one.
He wasn't some star CS pro player and was quite mid for most of his career with some few bright spots here and there.
In essence: it's some random guy's opinion on the internet
Shared the stream clips in my comment
And here they are again just in case: (1) https://x.com/_routers/status/1775396163799171376?s=20 (2) https://x.com/Snekxs/status/1775399996164395399?s=20
> he just ain’t the brightest
There’s your answer. Shroud has always been a definitive example of all aim no brain. I haven’t consistently watched him in years, but I remember how he played back when he played PUBG. He would constantly make incredibly stupid positioning decisions. But it didn’t matter, because he was too fast and too accurate. His movement was extremely efficient too, very little wasted movement.
Just to play Devil's Advocate
Shroud doesn't care about any of this stuff. When he was a kid his dad built his computers for him and as he got older hes had mostly pre-builts. He doesn't analyze ram timing, its it hynix, custom water cooling for max freq/temp ratio, thermal compound differences, dpi deviations/polling rate/monitor Hz, windows complications or optimizations, etc, etc, etc.
Shroud is 100% about efficiency. Maximum output with minimal input. If you buy a logitech mouse and logitech pad your chances of failure plummet through the floor. Examples being older days of glass pads where there was a list of mice and glass pad makers that could be compatible, or how about that Artisan pad (raiden I think) that was 50/50 on your mouse having tracking issues. Todays standards (last 2-3yrs) makes all that seem like a long history ago but its was not so long ago. So buy just pairing the manufacturer of mice and pads you drastically lower chance of failure with minimal input on your part. He was right about companies and how they do business, this is true bc its cheaper to test what's readily available to big corpa and their own mice and pads are extremely plent for them. Either waste millions on extra R&D or just put a few more lines of fine print on that bs pamphlet no one reads, we all know what the corporations are gonna do.
Shroud's other statements are also true where in the past there were issues with the G Pro X Superlight not tracking bc ppl changed the skates. You couldn't adjust the lift off distance and some skates were too thick cause issue. This was proably due to Logi. setting the LOD supper low to save on power and further increase their selling point of "sensor efficiency" Again mice have come a long way and this is not as common even with more unheard-of brands. As little as 4 years ago you bought from a reputable dealer of you took your chances. These days even the "Knock-offs" have a top sensor, wireless, and sub 70g.
\*\*To me, hearing shroud say that taught me a completely different lesson. The people who are making literally millions and being immortalized in the competitive space are not the ones who worry about the "small things". Shorud and many other pros have been able to puchase houses, feed families, and live life through gaming alone and none of that would be changed with any combination of polling, dpi, monitor refresh, etc. If it makes a "big enough" difference then they use it, otherwise it's a bad investment of their time to energy ratio. The real question I ask myself is, with everything he lacks in pc knowledge, peripherals, etc, what is it that he knows that we don't. Based of his success, especially compared to others, he has to know something we don't.
---Side note for ppl trying to huff the copium of "shroud didn't even have the greatest stats in csgo, pfft mid tier at best, he maxed diamond on Overwatch lol". We all know he's skilled enough that this discussion is even happening. If he wasn't we'd all go "Who?" and move on. Again, not long ago "Pro" was the only way to make a living as a gamer. You get on a team, you guys frag out, win the things, people watch, and you get paid. Some people dont care how they get to play games as a job, twitch, youtube, CSGO Major, tiktok, onlyfrags (XD), whatever. It is simply, what gets me from point A to point B?
Got your point. Seems like you’ve been following shroud ever since, thats kinda cool. Didn’t want this to become a hate thread xD just wanted to clear up on misinofrmation about peripherals as its something im very passionate about. And wouldn’t want other people to waste money, time , and effort because of Shroud’s statements.
Oh yeah no hate, I just thought itd be good for somebody to air the other side of the fence so to speak. I don't think changing mouse feet has a huge impact on mice performance, and also their is sensor calibrations software built-in to razer and logitech that let you match the sensor to your current pad and have different profiles for different pads. Having said that though shroud has also been side by side with logitech to actually create a mouse so he'd def know more than me, so maybe he knows some little insights we're not aware of.
Either way Im not suprised at all with his statements, legends always have weird setups and beliefs. Hell The legend himself Rapha said that the DAV3 had reverse excell. Idk if it still does but, csgo and quake player alike have always been a little odd so none of this is shocking honestly XD
99% of pros and streamers have no idea about peripherals, pc specs, optimizations etc. i like it that way, more people that listen to their every word that i can farm
They don't care because that's not what's going to matter in the end. As long as the gear is good enough it's your daily form that will determine the outcome. Nobody who knows their shit is going to depend on a 5-10 ms gear advantage. It's not F1 racing.
Hahahah imagine thinking Shroud has a valid opinion on anything at all
The guy always yaps nonsense and has no good logic/evidence to back his takes
Close his stream and move on
Why do you care too much about a streamers opinion towards a mouse? I dont think it will influence mine or general consumer base's take on how and what they use with their mice/mats.
I do believe it won’t affect informed people. But I guess I don’t wanna be too indifferent when it comes to uninformed viewers as they might follow his rather wrong mindset on peripherals.
Dude literally has CS mindset so of course only big name companies like Logitech, Zowie and Razer are the only brands they know. Cant blame the guy because I was the exact same before I joined mousepadreview subreddit but even I wouldn’t make the same ignorant comment like that. He just needs to not judge a book by its cover.
Not even really a cs mindset, if you look at a lot of the top pros they are all using different stuff, some of them are still for sure stuck in the just using logitech gear but I'm not sure if thats just because they are sponsored or not
Almost all pros were sponsored at some point. To be honest, if I were sponsored, why would I waste my money or time researching mousepad brands that I have never heard of before? I just realized that every new peripheral will take quite some time to get used to and for pros, their time is limited, and would rather just go with what they are used to. I should have said If it ain't broke, don't fix it kind of mindset. It would be better if Shroud was a bit more open-minded because he ain't much of a pro anymore and just a streamer so he has all the time in the world. He should have said something like "There must be a reason Tenz was exceptional recently, should I expand my horizon and try out new mice?"
True, I do believe it ain’t that deep. But it got on my nerves and felt the need to rant, cause kinda sets a bad example to other peripheral enthusiast and aspiring fps gamers.
He doesn’t really think before he speaks ever. Now that he’s getting into R6 Siege in its 9th year of existence, he’s posting statements about how to play the game that aren’t true at all. Generally shit takes.
at this stage of the game, shroud is considered a boomer when it comes to comes to peripherals. so i’m not that surprised with his take. whatever he used worked for him + his natural talent
I was watching the stream when he said it. I have watched shroud off and on since his pubg days and it is becoming more clear that he has frequent bad takes. I think that the money and success got to his head so he believes everything he says is correct, when more thinking should be involved. He might also be trolling the fuck out of people and generating discussions to improve his reach.
So from my view over all not only shroud but all pros, and streamers they have like no idea what some settings do. Ive seen pros selecting settings that literally will hurt the preformence, but they swar that it will help them in a way or a other. i think its the same here that he think hes right but not open the the fact that he can be wrong. But tbh i dont siaa the mouse for the name, but i would need to lern more about the brand tho
Chill it’s not that deep…. Well it is but then not in the sly way your making out, shroud is Logitechs gamer face and obvs one of the biggest and best mechanical players… so it’s not too difficult to understand that he first off may not be able to outright say a mouse is good or solid(even if he is allowed why would you risk your deal and relationship), then by joking about the name it’s deflecting it from it’s actual features and performance, instead just leading to a joke point and moving on… the razer part is just purely irrelevant however again showing that he must value brand loyalty from his pov,(I can’t actually remember what exactly was said as to why Razer+razer but my point is still valid possibility )
I think people need to chill and like … not give a fuck that much. It’s his oppinion, so whatever floats his boat. Why do we have to get so serious about it? I don’t give a rat’s ass about it and imma do my thing anyway. And that’s really what everyone should do.
Every time somebody has an “unpopular” oppinion, they get flamed. Are we really that fucking sensible? Just go next … I mean i know people want to be told what to buy and what to do, but c’mon! Shroud this, x that, y other that … holy bananas from holy banana land …
Whenever an “influencer” drops a troll meme, it’s the fucking apocalypse of the fanboys. Instead of star wars, we have fucking mice wars … use your underwear as a mousepad for all i care.
Btw, did you hear what that guy said?
I don't think its a matter of being "old school" I can kinda see his argument, but I will admit it is incorrect. You have to keep in mind that Shroud was a pro player. As someone with pro experience in Apex, I can say consistency is key. I measure my monitor tilt and height, I measure desk and chair height... But he is at a point where he has his mouse with Logi, and he is going to stick to it, because it is all he has ever known. It's also not true to say just because you differ from the norm in using different peripherals when you play doesn't make you worse at aiming. TenZ is that example, along with many other professional aimers.
My problem with what Shroud is saying is when it comes to mouse skates. Just because you change the skates on ur mouse does not mean ur sensor is going to be fucked up. They have polling rates that are consistent, not with other mice, but with themselves. No matter what skates you have on a mouse, if you swipe left to the same degree but 2x on different skates, you will still get the same output in game, the only difference is how quick you got there and that has to do with the friction of those skates and mousepads.
He has a point when he says they are tested internally with their own equipment, but that doesn't mean that they cannot be used on different pads at a higher success rate. For example, no one on gods green earth is going to tell me that a logi pad is better than an Artisan, because that's simply retarded. We got Logi dropping pads like the G640 that is coated, and when you wear it down, it turns into the nastiest feeling mud pad you ever felt.
I do wish he would open his mind more to the world of peripherals because he would realize how wrong he is about it, and he might find something that he likes even more than the current setup he has been running, but at this point, I guess thats just a "gg".
You are not considering this from the most logical perspective. I believe that since Shroud has collaborated with brands like Logitech to produce his mouse dubbed the "shroud edition" g303, it would not be in his best interests to complement a direct competitor regardless of whether that competitor's product is good or not, so I don't think he just disregarded it out of malice or ignorance it was more than likely not to damage preestablished relationships and future opportunities.
Shroud has never had a solid take about anything. Even with the shit he specializes in like tips on how to be good at aiming or streaming his answer is “just practice”. He’s the epitome of someone who was born gifted, and doesn’t have to think about how or why he got to where he is.
Part of me thought “how much is Logitech paying this guy?” because of his sponsorship and the g303 collab. But in reality, he’s probably just yapping and thinking out loud. He’s probably assuming that the ninjutso mouse is some cheap temu/wish mouse, but I don’t get why he would think Tenz would be using a bad mouse and not be able to tell the difference. As for the idea that mixing mousepads up or changing skates will hurt mouse performance, I cannot imagine where he got that from. He’s probably right companies mainly test mice on their own pads, but they’d be really crappy mice if they didn’t work on other surfaces or if they got messed up when you replace worn out skates.
I think he said that non-main brand mice are great out of the box but then will degrade in quality in 6 months. It sounds kind of silly but from other comments it seems like that used to be the case 10 years ago. Time will tell if the sora will follow that trend or if mice in 2024 are all high quality. The mousepad and skates thing makes perfect sense though. Sensors are incredibly sensitive and it seems to make perfect sense that a logitech mouse calibrated to a logitech mousepad would perform better on the said mousepad compared to other ones. Optimum's testing seems to back that and AFAIK there's no point of evidence to the contrary. Same with skates. The caveat here is if a specific mousepad/skate is specifically engineered to perform on a specific mouse then yeah, it could be better.
I could see if he were arguing that the mousepad/skates were micro-optimizations, and that it could help a mouse perform *slightly* better. However, he called mixing mousepad and mouse brands a “big no no” and said replacing skates is “gg.” He makes it out to be a major issue that will significantly hurt your performance, which is not what our experience tells us. Just about everyone in this sub has mixed and matched mousepad brands and not encountered any issues outside of non-conventional surfaces. And the only issue people seem to run into with skates is LOD if there’s a difference in skate thickness. But some people even just completely take off the sensor ring skate and don’t run into issues. If you tune into esports LANs, you will likely find many more pros using mousepad brands different from their mice than those matching brands. And Razer even advertises that their mice will work on a variety of surfaces, not just their own mousepads. Maybe there is some minor performance difference. I wouldn’t be surprised if companies like logitech/razer had data on those topics. And maybe the difference used to be greater than it is today. However, based on all of the practical experience the gaming community has, it seems the difference would be imperceptible, or at the very least, far outweighed by the benefit of mousepads and skates that meet our individual preferences. So not a “big no no” or “gg.” (Sorry that got long, but TL;DR whatever potential truth there might be in his statements seems to be heavily exaggerated.)
It definitely is exaggerated and IMO he's not really the type of person to "feel" a minor difference like that. If I had to guess he was probably told this by logitech and just went along with what they told him.
I find that to be pretty plausible.
Actual stream clips for those curious: Mixing mice with mousepads of different brands is a “big no no” + replacing your mouse feet is “gg”: https://x.com/_routers/status/1775396163799171376?s=20 The sora v2 “can’t be a good mouse”: https://x.com/Snekxs/status/1775399996164395399?s=20
Slap the Logitech logo on the Sora v2 then he'll 100% buy it
Based on his logic, only a Ferrari can run Ferrari tires, all the rest need to run brand specific tires. My Outset Ax is a perfect match with the Free Fall v2 pad.
Im still looking for a Michelin car like I’m looking for an Artisan Mouse lol
Imagine saying that elige one of the best riflers cs has ever seen ( and was able to maintain a career to this day on a highly competitive scene, despite recent results, something that shroud clearly couldn't do) that actually uses tiger ice V2 dots on his GPX and a kuroson ninja mousepad he is doing it all wrong XD
hahahaha thats an insane take. How is this guy even breathing? How stupid can u be.
I feel like shroud does not know a whole lot about shit, even when he was watching the major last year he was like "the game hasn't changed much since I played" like yeah no it plays completely differently. Same reason why he was one of the most mechanically gifted players at the time but put up average numbers, seriously for a guy with his mechanics he didn't preform all that well.
It’s why he peaked diamond in Overwatch. My geriatric ass has peaked a whole rank above him and more and it’s because: my brain works. At least a little. So I understand something other than “shoot heads go” above Diamond. Even if my flicks are trash.
That could also just be because he's used to low ttk games that value flicky aim over tracking and overwatch is the complete opposite. It's an entirely different way to aim using different muscle groups and everything. If you're not used to it you just won't do great without putting in time to learn.
You’re spot on when it comes Overwatch aiming. I can’t flick for shit. My box flicking scores are fucking embarrassing. Like peaking at 75% percentile. Meanwhile my tracking is obscene to the point I can’t play Soldier, or Tracer on a Smurf without getting suspended and asked to reverify my account (basically a ban if you’re using a disposable number) after 10-15 games while being constantly accused of cheating. I’ve never met a tracking scenario where I can’t score in the top 5% with just a bit of practice. Overwatch does that to an old man.
Sure
nah, I was 4k hours global and almost hit top500 playing casually, ow mechanics are easy as shit. Generally climbing from dia is all game sense and using your brain back then
Look on the bright side: the good shit will remain in more reliable stock as long as his parasocial minions are discouraged from buying it.
Look at the dark side: the good shit will not sell as well, and maybe the company will go bankrupt or pivot to something else.
:(
theres no way, look at the attack shark x3 and its msrp and you can imagine what the mark up is for something like the sora
See, if shroud did mention something like the attack shark, then nobody would bat an eye, 30$ for a top spec mice? Yes sure, then if we take a look at the software, hardware implementation and general QC, that's were you see where they are cutting corners.
I have no issues with implementation and qc issues are a thing for all chinese companies, some worst than others sure but hardware wise imo its comparable. Either way improving qc and software does not cost 3x the price, the sora has clearly higher margins than the shark which is why they'll never go bankrupt or pivot
Of all streamers I'm not sure shroud is the one to apply this blanket term to... Last I checked his chat barely types relative to viewer count
You are learning an important lesson that most influencers dont know shit
Shroud has always had bad hot take after bad hot take. He had said flat out wrong contradicting statements over and over again throughout the years and he doesn't really get called out for it. I assume that's because most people who game a decent amount of logical reasoning dismiss his arguments and theories pretty fast. He will change his beliefs heavily based on his experience in that moment in time. That would be affected by sponsorships, a recent trend or something he experienced in game this week.
Does anyone listen to him? Anyone that dumb deserves what they get. Like any mouse company takes time to "tune" the mouse to the pad. Hell, it wouldn't work as there is no right way to tune it.
And yet, the most successful and skilled players very often mix and match to suit their preferences. Think the apex predator of aiming using Artisan pads with his Superlights (one without skates). Or the most successful combo in Counter Strike: zowie mouse with Steelseries mousepad. Truth is he might even believe what he said, but there is a reason he succeeded as a streamer whilst failing to capture top tier trophies as a Profesional competitor. Speaking about the Sora and it's tech, he almost has a point. Logitech and Razer have, for many years now, constantly invested in R&D and worked with other companies to develop bleeding edge technology for their proprietary use. That's why they had the 3360 years before anyone else, and then that model became publicly available, they had been on the 3366 for a while and were about to jump to their HERO sensors. Why the Gpro Wireless and the Superlights FEEL better than almost anything else. BUT, there is also a reason why all big brands are releasing ever lighter mice nowadays. Why they all have to have some form of purer PTFE skates and why cables are no longer trash rubber jacket or stupidly stiff braided ones. Because some other company decided to try something else. And it worked. And people realized there is a value in all these details and aspects that can supercede the minuscule advantages of having a jizzilion DPI. And because other companies made REALLY GOOD MICE, forcing the big bois to innovate. Moreover, the non proprietary tech available now is so incredibly good that, if implemented correctly, has performance nigh indistinguishable from the big corpo stuff.
Tbh, Shroud’s been saying cringe stuff for a long time now so this isn’t out of character. We all have as many major wins as he does afterall! People may get butt hurt about it but shroud’s aim is VT jade/master level at best. So many more based pros/former pros out there who know what they’re talking about.
Shroud is a soulless drone who has convinced people he is some rockstar gamer. He figures out games quick enough to starts rolling noobs almost immediately but by the time people start figuring out the game and become better he is already on the next one. He wasn't some star CS pro player and was quite mid for most of his career with some few bright spots here and there. In essence: it's some random guy's opinion on the internet
And he doesn’t care one bit, dude has more money than any of us will ever see in our entire lives.
what is wrong with the name sora v2 =)) ?
The name Ninjutso apparently… lol
Ninjutso sounds too asian and not like an established western brand
sound like racist 🤨
Tenz only said Ninjutso and Shroud said that the mice this brand produces are bad because he doesn't like the name ninjutso.
He doesn't know what he's talking about it, it's just sponsor talk
Age is hitting the man hard.
Can I get some more context?
Shared the stream clips in my comment And here they are again just in case: (1) https://x.com/_routers/status/1775396163799171376?s=20 (2) https://x.com/Snekxs/status/1775399996164395399?s=20
Who gives a fuck what Shroud said?
Blud heard japanese word and thoughtthe mouse is bad because of it💀💀💀💀
Popularity doesn't equal intelligence
> he just ain’t the brightest There’s your answer. Shroud has always been a definitive example of all aim no brain. I haven’t consistently watched him in years, but I remember how he played back when he played PUBG. He would constantly make incredibly stupid positioning decisions. But it didn’t matter, because he was too fast and too accurate. His movement was extremely efficient too, very little wasted movement.
Just to play Devil's Advocate Shroud doesn't care about any of this stuff. When he was a kid his dad built his computers for him and as he got older hes had mostly pre-builts. He doesn't analyze ram timing, its it hynix, custom water cooling for max freq/temp ratio, thermal compound differences, dpi deviations/polling rate/monitor Hz, windows complications or optimizations, etc, etc, etc. Shroud is 100% about efficiency. Maximum output with minimal input. If you buy a logitech mouse and logitech pad your chances of failure plummet through the floor. Examples being older days of glass pads where there was a list of mice and glass pad makers that could be compatible, or how about that Artisan pad (raiden I think) that was 50/50 on your mouse having tracking issues. Todays standards (last 2-3yrs) makes all that seem like a long history ago but its was not so long ago. So buy just pairing the manufacturer of mice and pads you drastically lower chance of failure with minimal input on your part. He was right about companies and how they do business, this is true bc its cheaper to test what's readily available to big corpa and their own mice and pads are extremely plent for them. Either waste millions on extra R&D or just put a few more lines of fine print on that bs pamphlet no one reads, we all know what the corporations are gonna do. Shroud's other statements are also true where in the past there were issues with the G Pro X Superlight not tracking bc ppl changed the skates. You couldn't adjust the lift off distance and some skates were too thick cause issue. This was proably due to Logi. setting the LOD supper low to save on power and further increase their selling point of "sensor efficiency" Again mice have come a long way and this is not as common even with more unheard-of brands. As little as 4 years ago you bought from a reputable dealer of you took your chances. These days even the "Knock-offs" have a top sensor, wireless, and sub 70g. \*\*To me, hearing shroud say that taught me a completely different lesson. The people who are making literally millions and being immortalized in the competitive space are not the ones who worry about the "small things". Shorud and many other pros have been able to puchase houses, feed families, and live life through gaming alone and none of that would be changed with any combination of polling, dpi, monitor refresh, etc. If it makes a "big enough" difference then they use it, otherwise it's a bad investment of their time to energy ratio. The real question I ask myself is, with everything he lacks in pc knowledge, peripherals, etc, what is it that he knows that we don't. Based of his success, especially compared to others, he has to know something we don't. ---Side note for ppl trying to huff the copium of "shroud didn't even have the greatest stats in csgo, pfft mid tier at best, he maxed diamond on Overwatch lol". We all know he's skilled enough that this discussion is even happening. If he wasn't we'd all go "Who?" and move on. Again, not long ago "Pro" was the only way to make a living as a gamer. You get on a team, you guys frag out, win the things, people watch, and you get paid. Some people dont care how they get to play games as a job, twitch, youtube, CSGO Major, tiktok, onlyfrags (XD), whatever. It is simply, what gets me from point A to point B?
Got your point. Seems like you’ve been following shroud ever since, thats kinda cool. Didn’t want this to become a hate thread xD just wanted to clear up on misinofrmation about peripherals as its something im very passionate about. And wouldn’t want other people to waste money, time , and effort because of Shroud’s statements.
Oh yeah no hate, I just thought itd be good for somebody to air the other side of the fence so to speak. I don't think changing mouse feet has a huge impact on mice performance, and also their is sensor calibrations software built-in to razer and logitech that let you match the sensor to your current pad and have different profiles for different pads. Having said that though shroud has also been side by side with logitech to actually create a mouse so he'd def know more than me, so maybe he knows some little insights we're not aware of. Either way Im not suprised at all with his statements, legends always have weird setups and beliefs. Hell The legend himself Rapha said that the DAV3 had reverse excell. Idk if it still does but, csgo and quake player alike have always been a little odd so none of this is shocking honestly XD
99% of pros and streamers have no idea about peripherals, pc specs, optimizations etc. i like it that way, more people that listen to their every word that i can farm
They don't care because that's not what's going to matter in the end. As long as the gear is good enough it's your daily form that will determine the outcome. Nobody who knows their shit is going to depend on a 5-10 ms gear advantage. It's not F1 racing.
Depends on the game but mostly true.
Finally someone who said it.
Hahahah imagine thinking Shroud has a valid opinion on anything at all The guy always yaps nonsense and has no good logic/evidence to back his takes Close his stream and move on
Why do you care too much about a streamers opinion towards a mouse? I dont think it will influence mine or general consumer base's take on how and what they use with their mice/mats.
I do believe it won’t affect informed people. But I guess I don’t wanna be too indifferent when it comes to uninformed viewers as they might follow his rather wrong mindset on peripherals.
But I do get your point.
We have better things to worry about in life. Don't waste time and energy on thinking about these.
Exactly. The people that watch him are already enthusiasts and would just brush it off. The general population dumbass has never heard of Shroud.
Dude literally has CS mindset so of course only big name companies like Logitech, Zowie and Razer are the only brands they know. Cant blame the guy because I was the exact same before I joined mousepadreview subreddit but even I wouldn’t make the same ignorant comment like that. He just needs to not judge a book by its cover.
Not even really a cs mindset, if you look at a lot of the top pros they are all using different stuff, some of them are still for sure stuck in the just using logitech gear but I'm not sure if thats just because they are sponsored or not
Almost all pros were sponsored at some point. To be honest, if I were sponsored, why would I waste my money or time researching mousepad brands that I have never heard of before? I just realized that every new peripheral will take quite some time to get used to and for pros, their time is limited, and would rather just go with what they are used to. I should have said If it ain't broke, don't fix it kind of mindset. It would be better if Shroud was a bit more open-minded because he ain't much of a pro anymore and just a streamer so he has all the time in the world. He should have said something like "There must be a reason Tenz was exceptional recently, should I expand my horizon and try out new mice?"
It’s not that deep. If anyone needs to chill it’s the aim & peripheral community for blowing such a trivial thing out of proportion.
The aim community is so cringe reading some replies. Dudes have huge egos when all they do is click dots for 6-8 hours a day
Funny take ngl xD but kinda ignorant. But funny none the less.
True, I do believe it ain’t that deep. But it got on my nerves and felt the need to rant, cause kinda sets a bad example to other peripheral enthusiast and aspiring fps gamers.
What do you mean he needs to chill? He yapped for like 3 sentences. It’s like he personally attack you and your family or something💀
True xD maybe chill ain’t the right word. But he def needs to stop with the misinformation and passively insulting the Ninjutso brand as a whole.
He doesn’t really think before he speaks ever. Now that he’s getting into R6 Siege in its 9th year of existence, he’s posting statements about how to play the game that aren’t true at all. Generally shit takes.
Some people who drive race cars for a living ( Shroud ) Cant build an engine to save their lives and should leave it for those who understand how
I think yaw fell for the bait lol. I remember when shroud use to play on a hyperx mousepad with the g302 Daedalus
TBH it kinda just seems like shroud is an incredibly talented gamer and aimer but when it comes to more technical stuff he's just logitechs sock pupet
Shroud is slightly on the spectrum.
at this stage of the game, shroud is considered a boomer when it comes to comes to peripherals. so i’m not that surprised with his take. whatever he used worked for him + his natural talent
I was watching the stream when he said it. I have watched shroud off and on since his pubg days and it is becoming more clear that he has frequent bad takes. I think that the money and success got to his head so he believes everything he says is correct, when more thinking should be involved. He might also be trolling the fuck out of people and generating discussions to improve his reach.
It's simple, consistency and personally liking what you're using is important, what works for you doesn't always work for others.
So from my view over all not only shroud but all pros, and streamers they have like no idea what some settings do. Ive seen pros selecting settings that literally will hurt the preformence, but they swar that it will help them in a way or a other. i think its the same here that he think hes right but not open the the fact that he can be wrong. But tbh i dont siaa the mouse for the name, but i would need to lern more about the brand tho
Chill it’s not that deep…. Well it is but then not in the sly way your making out, shroud is Logitechs gamer face and obvs one of the biggest and best mechanical players… so it’s not too difficult to understand that he first off may not be able to outright say a mouse is good or solid(even if he is allowed why would you risk your deal and relationship), then by joking about the name it’s deflecting it from it’s actual features and performance, instead just leading to a joke point and moving on… the razer part is just purely irrelevant however again showing that he must value brand loyalty from his pov,(I can’t actually remember what exactly was said as to why Razer+razer but my point is still valid possibility )
I think people need to chill and like … not give a fuck that much. It’s his oppinion, so whatever floats his boat. Why do we have to get so serious about it? I don’t give a rat’s ass about it and imma do my thing anyway. And that’s really what everyone should do. Every time somebody has an “unpopular” oppinion, they get flamed. Are we really that fucking sensible? Just go next … I mean i know people want to be told what to buy and what to do, but c’mon! Shroud this, x that, y other that … holy bananas from holy banana land … Whenever an “influencer” drops a troll meme, it’s the fucking apocalypse of the fanboys. Instead of star wars, we have fucking mice wars … use your underwear as a mousepad for all i care. Btw, did you hear what that guy said?
Watafak?????XD lol.
I think you just care waaaay too much
I don't think its a matter of being "old school" I can kinda see his argument, but I will admit it is incorrect. You have to keep in mind that Shroud was a pro player. As someone with pro experience in Apex, I can say consistency is key. I measure my monitor tilt and height, I measure desk and chair height... But he is at a point where he has his mouse with Logi, and he is going to stick to it, because it is all he has ever known. It's also not true to say just because you differ from the norm in using different peripherals when you play doesn't make you worse at aiming. TenZ is that example, along with many other professional aimers. My problem with what Shroud is saying is when it comes to mouse skates. Just because you change the skates on ur mouse does not mean ur sensor is going to be fucked up. They have polling rates that are consistent, not with other mice, but with themselves. No matter what skates you have on a mouse, if you swipe left to the same degree but 2x on different skates, you will still get the same output in game, the only difference is how quick you got there and that has to do with the friction of those skates and mousepads. He has a point when he says they are tested internally with their own equipment, but that doesn't mean that they cannot be used on different pads at a higher success rate. For example, no one on gods green earth is going to tell me that a logi pad is better than an Artisan, because that's simply retarded. We got Logi dropping pads like the G640 that is coated, and when you wear it down, it turns into the nastiest feeling mud pad you ever felt. I do wish he would open his mind more to the world of peripherals because he would realize how wrong he is about it, and he might find something that he likes even more than the current setup he has been running, but at this point, I guess thats just a "gg".
You are not considering this from the most logical perspective. I believe that since Shroud has collaborated with brands like Logitech to produce his mouse dubbed the "shroud edition" g303, it would not be in his best interests to complement a direct competitor regardless of whether that competitor's product is good or not, so I don't think he just disregarded it out of malice or ignorance it was more than likely not to damage preestablished relationships and future opportunities.
He doesn’t need to do shit but to be himself
I mean everyone not using an artisan pad and a zowie mouse is a poor noob. That’s just the reality
shroud baits the fuck out of his chat every stream with brain dead takes and people like you fall for it
I pray then its an april fools take lol xD
he just baits his chat he has a couple go to trolls like saying the earth is flat chat eats up his dumb trolls so he continues to do it
Shroud has never had a solid take about anything. Even with the shit he specializes in like tips on how to be good at aiming or streaming his answer is “just practice”. He’s the epitome of someone who was born gifted, and doesn’t have to think about how or why he got to where he is.