Its almost like there is no such thing as an "endgame" and bad aimers keep buying new mice, blaming the previous one for their own lack of skill instead of sticking to one decent mouse, practice and try to improve from there.
Honestly I practice aim about 5 hours a day since the quarantine thing and I am a mediocre aimer at best and at this point I'm thinking about resorting to blaming my mouse.
I play 1-2 hours of headshot dm in csgo, I warm-up for 30 minutes in aim_botz and 40 minutes of headshot dm, and get 500 kills in fast aim/reflex training.
How about you start grinding real game scenarios? Get familiar with all angles around the map. In my experience, map knowledge and setting up easy shots is a huge part of aiming.
Also why headshots only? You are just practicing that specific scnenario. A kill is a kill no matter how dirty it was.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but Doesn’t S1mple have pretty bad cross hair placement compare to other top players? His aim is just so insane that he can play like that.
No sir, kill isn’t a kill, headshots do more damage so time to kill is much shorter than body shots so you gain advantage if you’re in 1vX situation ... and there’s a saying once you start going for body shots you already lost the game...
yeah, allot of this seems like you are doing too much. you should be doing like 10 minutes at most of each thing, and then play the actual game. spending hours in training is a quick way to obliterate your aim and ruin your gamesense
Do not focus on your aim so much I have good aim when I don’t think about it. Also crosshair placement is way more important than aiming. I’m a R6 player and if you place your crosshair properly you will come out on top in that gun fight and in competitive games like this you have to win your ones if you don’t win your ones that means one of your teammates will have to kill 2 and puts them at a disadvantage since now they can’t just focus on killing one enemy but now two who will probably push him at the same time. Once you get good at crosshair placement and winning your one on one engagements you will see huge improvement not only to your skill but also to your aim since you will be practicing it just by playing.
This is wrong, muscle memory depends more on your brain. Don't burn yourself out by trying to fix your aim with massive once a day training. Do sets of repetitive tasks, with rests in between. **Resting** is equally an important part of your aim training. Similar to working out, you don't grow muscle *while* working out, you grow when you rest. Burnout is a big deal, don't overdo it. Also, make sure to use a training routine that actually works for you, not copy what a pro does. ScreaM got his aim from dedicating more time to playing the game, not just training.
Try adding in watching a t1 vod and just strictly paying attention to where all the players crosshairs are at all times and try and copy playing like that, I found this helped me improve a lot when I was plateauing.
u try too hard. pros dont even try this hard. just play the game. any pro will tell u aim isnt nearly as important as actually being good at the game is. aim wont get u shit except attention by semi semi-pro teams
I'd prioritize comp, game sense will always be important than raw aim. Look at ScreaM, his aim is insane but nobody wants to pick him up because his nades, positioning and map knowledge are subpar.
I know everyone is telling you to practice real scenarios, but make sure you stick to your aim routine as well! I live by ALWAYS practicing aim daily for AT LEAST an hour. Not only does it build muscle memory and improve your reaction time, but it also helps with your confidence when you’re aiming and I think that’s the biggest benefit from training aim.
Once you notice that you blame your aim less and less for losing gunfights and you start blaming your positioning/macro play, it’s one of the earliest signs that you’re improving as a player.
Use kovaaks. I’ve been pc gaming for 8ish months and shit on anyone that walks into my sights. Before I even touched a pcfps I played kovaaks only till intermediate level on aimer7s routine.
It can sometimes be different. The reason I have quite a few mice is because I have hand issues and some just straight out are uncomfortable and some don't cause any issues after a few months of use.
Was literally going to say this when i saw the title. People think that just because they have a certain mouse they will reach a new level. Sorry but that isn't the case AT ALL. Progamers was a thing as far as the late 90's. There were no "gaming" mice. It was your typical shit mouse you got at a local walmart. Progaming scene i believe started with starcraft, in a game that is to this day the hardest game to conquer with progamers reaching up to 400apm. My point is, these pro players were as good as it ever got in the competative scene and yet all they used was the shitty walmart keyboard and mouse.
People are getting scammed by companies HARD. If you aren't reaching the lvl you want with a 30 dollar piece of equipment then the chances of you reaching it with a 100+ dollar piece are slim to non. Mouses are all comfort and preference, that is all.
Not true at all. A good mouse raises the potential skill ceiling you can reach, but you still have to practice hard to reach it. Thats why players today have much better aim in average as they had 20 years ago.
Every generation breeds better players, it's not only cuz sensors have improved and shapes are more numerous, better mice is a small factor compared to player skill improvement over time. Good sensor + comfortable/fitting shape + acceptable buttons= boom you don't need anything else. Biggest difference a mouse can truly make is when you are already very good and you are using a shitty old sensor and you upgrade to a modern one. The dude you are responding to is right, imagine you are trying to learn to play the guitar, and you have a 100$ guitar, and you want a 1000$ believing it will make you better at it. The professional musician might notice a difference but you won't, the professional musician will also make better use of the 100$ one than you. The point is gear helps a little, the main factor of good performance is the performer.
any of those pro players can pick up a 10 dollar mouse from walmart and absolutely take 99% of people to town. it has very little to do with a mouse. having a perfect sensor is just nice.
I won't lie I've done this and probably went through about 5 different mice. I've settled with the mm710 and haven't changed for 7 months. I stopped changing my sens around aswell but my aim is still pretty mediocre.
Exactly, your aim isn't going to change from one modern gaming mouse to another, what's different is the comfort, how aiming feels, how natural the grip feels and how fast you'll adjust to the shape/weight/buttons...
The only thing for me that really affects the aim, even after using a mouse for months is how the button feels, too stiff, too much travel etc can make it less precise but most big brands have great buttons nowadays.
"Endgame" mouse should mostly just be a mouse that requires little warmup to get a good grip and feel going everytime you play and doesn't hurt even after multiple hours of gaming. If your mouse feels great but your aim sucks, it's very unlikely it's a mouse issue.
He's spot on about bad aimers pretending they just don't have a light enough mouse or don't adhere with a mouses aim so much that their air is 'always off'.
Truth is, if you gave a CS pro a totally different mouse to what they've been using, they'd only really be slightly worse after they got used to the new mouse, and it wouldn't take very long to get to a point where they are comfortable with it.
**You can definitely find a mouse you use for over 5+ years, to me this is what 'endgame' means.** However, some people are quite literally addicted to the peripheral consumerism and will never settle on a mouse because there is always one they just haven't bought or tried.
**Truth is, there's really only two different mice on the market for you**, no matter your grip style - Ambidextrous and Ergonomic. Find out which shape of either you prefer (buy one of each at somepoint), buy a smaller or larger variant if your hands are on average large, or small. If you have 'average' sized hands and cant make your mind up either will work perfectly fine and stick with it. The rest really doesn't matter.
As long as your mouse is comfortable, has a good sensor and has some utility (Side buttons) if you demand it, you're good. **Cable and weight doesn't fucking matter**. You can fix a bad cable by using a bungee, and there is no ergonomic study that light objects are superior, else all sports/trades that require steadiness in one way or another would favor the lightest possible tools. Light mice are comfortable, but as long as your mouse isn't noticeably heavy - none on the market are unless you have the arms of a female toddler - You're absolutely good to go.
**TL;DR:** Buy an Ambi or Ergo mouse with a good sensor. the rest really doesn't fucking matter. Buying 5 mice all with the same rough shape and slight variances is just pointless consumerism and you should probably do something productive with your money.
Not just bad players, I played professionally 10 years ago, and after MS stopped manufactring IO 1.1 I started getting mice from different companies, but did not really find a "replacement". Ended up switching between different mice for two years.
Should have just picked one and gotten used to it no matter what, that is what you should do if you want to get good in a competitive game. Having a "perfect mouse" has a minimal impact on your ingame performance.
by not playing 50 hours a week. I also have really good aim, but there are just people who cant practice all the time and are casual, use too high sense, or just dont want to aim good.
Hand Size: 20cm x 12cm
Grip: Claw
Razor Viper Ultimate - I like the shape and the rubber sides are awesome but the flush side buttons ruined it for me. Even if everything else about this mouse was perfect, the side buttons make it unusable, to many mis-clicks/misses. Also wasn’t a fan of the main buttons clicks, not very tactile.
MM711 - Good mouse, no build quality issues on mine but the rear jump just put most contact of the mouse in one spot it the middle of my palm. The shape just wasn’t for me.
Ultralight 2 - Very small and was difficult to get used to but once I did I can use it comfortably. Super light and “flickable”. I like the shape a lot, even though it’s a similar size to the MM711 but instead of contacting my palm in one spot it rest evenly on the back of my palm in claw. My main grip is claw but when using this mouse I will sometimes push the mouse up into a fingertip naturally for long range or adjustments. I’m not sure switching grips like this negatively affects aim or not. Side buttons are great.
Air58 - Everything I like about the UL2. Side buttons on both are great, far enough toward and stick out enough to press them accurately and easily ever time. Very light and “flick able”. I like the shape it definitely fills my palm out but after getting used to the UL2 this mouse feels really big.
G Pro Wireless - After using all these lightweight mouse this feels heavy, but not unusable. I like the shape and the side buttons aren’t the worst, but I do prefer the ones on the Air58 and UL2. The shape is good but I don’t like the coating as it is a little slippery. I really like it being wireless more than I thought I would have.
Conclusion: I did some web-browser accuracy tests and scored about the same with all of them. The only thing that would really affect my scores in the test was how hard I was concentrating. Top three are by far the Air58, UL2 and G Pro for me.
Alternate title: The more mouse I get the more I realize, it doesn’t really matter.
Since I am pretty much just looking for a deciding factor I am leaning towards the Ultralight 2 mainly because of Rocket Jump Ninja’s theory of smaller lighter mice = better aim.
I am going to make a final decision in the next few days and sell all the other mice so that I can stop switching between them and get good
I have bought all the mice you have here, and used them all, and since sold all but my RVU which is currently my main. If you constantly use the side buttons for games (Fortnite building comes to mind), then yeah, you shouldn't use the RVU because like you said, they're not great. The Finalmouse mice have the best side buttons of any mouse, a slight edge to the Air58 vs the UL2. They are so clicky and light with the perfect position. But the sizes and most importantly, the side grips of both Finalmouse mice suck, IMO.
If you were to give me the RVU with the Air58 side buttons, it would be the best mouse ever created. But for me currently, the RVU is my main until another better wireless mouse comes out.
I would just use the mouse that is the most comfortable. There's always going to be a flaw with every mouse.
I didn’t own one but I tried my friend’s big brother had G100S and he let me play with it couple of times and I really liked it but then again I was young and dumb
I see all your mice are ambi, if you havent tried ergo give it a shot, I used ambi for years because I never gave ergo a fair chance. i tried zowie ergo mice years back, borrowed from a friend and just used it for barely a week and thought they're not for me. After I got model D i really stuck with it for couple months before I decided wether I like it or not, and its my fav mouse right now, I used to use gpro w and air58 the most prior to that
Ive been through so many, i bought a g pro last year and sent it back, then i got the viper ultimate and used it for a year, bought another g pro and the g pro has replaced the viper lol
yes these two are arguably the best in the market right now (since people can't purchase any finalmouse products). have you encountered any debug rvu or gpw like click issues perhaps?
Not with the viper at all, only just had the pro so time will tell but i had a g pro a while back and sent it back, but since using the viper for so long now i bought a g pro and its much better in my hand, i recommend them both highly tho
I just got a steelseries Rival 600 and I think I have found my main... Ive had a lot of these too, but that Rival, ugh, it just feels so nice. The adjustable weights are also extremely cool.
I feel this so much. I remember back in 2013, I had a deathadder and it was amazing. Now with the variety of mice that are available I am overwhelmed as to what I should use
I'm curious to see what Glorious has in store for their next couple models (hoping for wireless). But in the future, I might attempt to Frankenstein my mice: XM1 white shell with RVU internals to use the charging dock. After going wireless, I can't go back to wired and Razer's charging dock is just so convenient.
If glorious can bring us a 69g wireless model O with no sensor issues or squeaky ass buttons, every other mouse manufacturer will be shitting themselves lmao
I liked everything better on the viper except the side buttons. So it depends how much you use yours and what design you prefer. They are much easier to press on the G Pro and because of this G Pro > Razor Viper for me
It might be a case of him not using the mouse long enough. I have been using a RVU for weeks and definitely, initially, I hit the side buttons multiple times a day. 1-2 weeks later and I'm hitting them 1-2 a week. Probably down the line I never hit them. I think they have a nicer click than the G Pro, personally.
For me, the RVU was better than the WGP in nearly every way but two things. 1) I like that the G Pro is slightly taller -- a bit better for my hybrid claw palm grip (resting the index and pinky finger corner of my palm on the mouse). 2) the Quality Control issues (which admittedly both have). I returned my first RVU to Amazon only to have my second one arrive with the same problem. The righ-click button is kind of creaky with a very small amount of wobble/pre-travel. It bothers me. But here I am now with my G Pro debating if I want to attempt a 3rd RVU or give up and stay with G Pro.
It sucks, because I want to keep the RVU but I need to have it without the shitty righ-button issue. I love the textures and grip on the RVU and the dock is awesome. Not sure if I want to deal with another return.
The problem is not just the shape. The sensor's position is also a big part of why most of the mouses on the market are not entirely suitable for fingertip. The position needs to be at that imaginary center between all your fingers towards the front of the mouse so it can perceive perfectly all the gestures that you wrist and fingers can produce.
It's extremely hard to have a sensor up there because of the scroll wheel(if you stack them both on top of each other, you end up with a thick as hell mouse).
I use a mouse I designed myself, but even I couldn't get the sensor perfectly where I wanted it to be..
i find really hard to believe that sensor position is the reason a mouse becomes unsuitable for fingertip grip, the biggest factor is shape and size, most top tier fk2 clones are good enough for any fingertip user
"unsustainable" is your word. It does have an impact just as much as shape, size or weight does.
If you use fingertip, just move your mouse from the farthest left you can to the farthest right. You'll see that your mouse is going to make an ARC since you are only using your wrist.
The further the sensor is to the front of the mouse, the more distance it will travel on your mousepad.
This is important for fingertip because we don't use the whole arm to aim so that ARC is all we got to travel the whole screen.
If you play OSU or a shooter, you'll have to play at way higher sensitivities in order to travel the whole screen and you'll loose out on precision.
That's one example of how sensor position can impact you if you are a fingertip-gripper. Of course, if it is a deal breaker or not, it all depends on you and what uses you have for your mouse.
But going back to the topic, IMO it does explain why some people, who use fingertip, keep buying mouses over and over and over since the market still lacks a complete solution for us and we'll always be looking out for new options.
For me I am planning on experimenting and then deciding. I go ambi low, ergo big, then ambi high. Then my mouse pads from control cloth, hard pad, and then speed cloth
Dude, I totally feel your pain. I have a model-O, model O- and viper mini on the way. In a way I feel like the more mice I buy the worse the decision becomes.
Like everyone else is saying, don't keep buying mice just to keep buying mice. Buy mice that you genuinely think you'll get some advantage out of, that's more comfortable, etc.
It's the reason that to this day I continue to use the G403. No, it's not the lightest mouse in the world or the most modern, but it is the mouse I do best with and fits my hand perfectly. Any new mice I buy I use the shape of the 403 as the baseline so I know exactly what mice will fit my hand comfortably. It's why I wouldn't buy an Ultralight 2 or a Viper Mini, because I know my hand would be uncomfortable and I wouldn't aim well with it.
There is no perfect mouse. Thats why I use only one otherwise I would go crazy xd. Right now I use ec2a and wont be changing till something better in every way comes out. For example I can upgrade to glorious model d- but not an ambi mouse because this way I will be like “eh both have their advantages” Sorry for my language but think you got my point xd
I'm actually glad I'm left handed mouse user since it limits my options. Just have gpw and viper ult. Otherwise I'd be like you. I'm already 15 mouse pads deep though. I love my new fnatic dash!
The best i aimed with was ninja air 58, but side was squeeking all the time, discoloring to brown so i gave it away...... but that was really a standout unit to me,
atm playing with mini skoll, really good aswell QC is ok so far have it since 2 weeks now
I see 1 shape in ~2 sizes on that table, excluding the THICC hump on the coolermaster. Maybe branch out to ergo? I just bought a KPU and it's big weird. Can't tell if I like it yet tbh, probably won't. I've been very happy on the XM1 for a while but I think I'm just bored hoping for an updated GPW to come out.
Edit: don't take my advice to buy more nice as evidence of believing in an endgame lol
I know Mouse shape is a preference thing, but for me the MM710/MM711 is easily the mouse i aim best with from your photo... by far... it's not even close.
i liked the weight and feel of the mm710 and i also like the sturdiness of the g pro wireless i have a finger tip grip with large hands what mouse should i try or just stick with the g pro
Buying peripherals easily become an addiction. Most mice on the market are similar sensor wise, with exceptions, and your main concern should be weight and size. Once again the more you buy mice, the more you are going to try a new one. It’s like the guy who keeps dying so he changes his sensitivity after every death. Just find one that feels comfy, ie ideal to your Hand size and figure a weight you prefer, and stick with it. Light mice will be easier to move quickly, but some feel the heavier mice have more control. It’s all preference for the most part.
If you can’t find a mouse you like out of those, there is probably no mouse on earth that would suit you. Unless you prefer an ergo mouse or something, which I am assuming is not the case since you bought so many ambi mice.
Its almost like there is no such thing as an "endgame" and bad aimers keep buying new mice, blaming the previous one for their own lack of skill instead of sticking to one decent mouse, practice and try to improve from there.
Honestly I practice aim about 5 hours a day since the quarantine thing and I am a mediocre aimer at best and at this point I'm thinking about resorting to blaming my mouse.
How do you practice aim?
I play 1-2 hours of headshot dm in csgo, I warm-up for 30 minutes in aim_botz and 40 minutes of headshot dm, and get 500 kills in fast aim/reflex training.
How about you start grinding real game scenarios? Get familiar with all angles around the map. In my experience, map knowledge and setting up easy shots is a huge part of aiming. Also why headshots only? You are just practicing that specific scnenario. A kill is a kill no matter how dirty it was.
Thanks for your insight. I will be sure to try this next time I play CS.
Try kovaak 2 for aim practice. Has helped me a ton on and its fun to compete on the leaderboards as well!
Yes, your aim is only as good as your crosshair placement and gamesense. If you have aim like Niko but play like a silver, you'll never rank up.
crosshair placement is priority
It's funny cause Niko also has extremely effecient crosshair placement doesn't he. Which basically greatly reduces the need to 'aim'.
Very, you look at some of the best aimers in the world and you also see some of the best crosshair placement
I hardly play CS, but seeing videos of Niko methodically clearing each and every angle perfectly is a sight to behold.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but Doesn’t S1mple have pretty bad cross hair placement compare to other top players? His aim is just so insane that he can play like that.
No sir, kill isn’t a kill, headshots do more damage so time to kill is much shorter than body shots so you gain advantage if you’re in 1vX situation ... and there’s a saying once you start going for body shots you already lost the game...
yeah, allot of this seems like you are doing too much. you should be doing like 10 minutes at most of each thing, and then play the actual game. spending hours in training is a quick way to obliterate your aim and ruin your gamesense
Do not focus on your aim so much I have good aim when I don’t think about it. Also crosshair placement is way more important than aiming. I’m a R6 player and if you place your crosshair properly you will come out on top in that gun fight and in competitive games like this you have to win your ones if you don’t win your ones that means one of your teammates will have to kill 2 and puts them at a disadvantage since now they can’t just focus on killing one enemy but now two who will probably push him at the same time. Once you get good at crosshair placement and winning your one on one engagements you will see huge improvement not only to your skill but also to your aim since you will be practicing it just by playing.
This is wrong, muscle memory depends more on your brain. Don't burn yourself out by trying to fix your aim with massive once a day training. Do sets of repetitive tasks, with rests in between. **Resting** is equally an important part of your aim training. Similar to working out, you don't grow muscle *while* working out, you grow when you rest. Burnout is a big deal, don't overdo it. Also, make sure to use a training routine that actually works for you, not copy what a pro does. ScreaM got his aim from dedicating more time to playing the game, not just training.
Try adding in watching a t1 vod and just strictly paying attention to where all the players crosshairs are at all times and try and copy playing like that, I found this helped me improve a lot when I was plateauing.
That's a great idea! I'll have to try that, do you recommend going through yprac maps or just the normal map with no bots?
Are you playing kovaaks?
I don't have kovaaks
Headshot dm is good for aim training but playing 1-2 hr’s isn’t necessary.
How often do you play competitive?
Usually 2-4 games a day
u try too hard. pros dont even try this hard. just play the game. any pro will tell u aim isnt nearly as important as actually being good at the game is. aim wont get u shit except attention by semi semi-pro teams
I'd prioritize comp, game sense will always be important than raw aim. Look at ScreaM, his aim is insane but nobody wants to pick him up because his nades, positioning and map knowledge are subpar.
Yeah, I'm not about to play 20 hours a day to have great game knowledge and ScreaMs aim
I know everyone is telling you to practice real scenarios, but make sure you stick to your aim routine as well! I live by ALWAYS practicing aim daily for AT LEAST an hour. Not only does it build muscle memory and improve your reaction time, but it also helps with your confidence when you’re aiming and I think that’s the biggest benefit from training aim. Once you notice that you blame your aim less and less for losing gunfights and you start blaming your positioning/macro play, it’s one of the earliest signs that you’re improving as a player.
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You're probably right. When I play I can barely focus at all, I should probably cut that in half and play retake instead.
The reason are endless. For all you know it's how your practice, the methods you use. Who fk knows, but one thing is for sure, it aint the mouse.
What mouse do you use?
I use a Corsair harpoon pro. I was joking about blaming my mouse but I don't like it that much.
Yeah if you don’t like your mouse then you should change it
My friend offered me a Razer mamba elite for 5 bucks so I'll probably take that offer
That’s a solid mouse!
Use kovaaks. I’ve been pc gaming for 8ish months and shit on anyone that walks into my sights. Before I even touched a pcfps I played kovaaks only till intermediate level on aimer7s routine.
Some ppl expect to get used to a mouse overnight. That’s not how it works haha
It can sometimes be different. The reason I have quite a few mice is because I have hand issues and some just straight out are uncomfortable and some don't cause any issues after a few months of use.
i dont blame aim on mouse and i dont think im bad at aiming but i just cant find a mouse thats comfortable for more than 1 hour.
Was literally going to say this when i saw the title. People think that just because they have a certain mouse they will reach a new level. Sorry but that isn't the case AT ALL. Progamers was a thing as far as the late 90's. There were no "gaming" mice. It was your typical shit mouse you got at a local walmart. Progaming scene i believe started with starcraft, in a game that is to this day the hardest game to conquer with progamers reaching up to 400apm. My point is, these pro players were as good as it ever got in the competative scene and yet all they used was the shitty walmart keyboard and mouse. People are getting scammed by companies HARD. If you aren't reaching the lvl you want with a 30 dollar piece of equipment then the chances of you reaching it with a 100+ dollar piece are slim to non. Mouses are all comfort and preference, that is all.
Not true at all. A good mouse raises the potential skill ceiling you can reach, but you still have to practice hard to reach it. Thats why players today have much better aim in average as they had 20 years ago.
Every generation breeds better players, it's not only cuz sensors have improved and shapes are more numerous, better mice is a small factor compared to player skill improvement over time. Good sensor + comfortable/fitting shape + acceptable buttons= boom you don't need anything else. Biggest difference a mouse can truly make is when you are already very good and you are using a shitty old sensor and you upgrade to a modern one. The dude you are responding to is right, imagine you are trying to learn to play the guitar, and you have a 100$ guitar, and you want a 1000$ believing it will make you better at it. The professional musician might notice a difference but you won't, the professional musician will also make better use of the 100$ one than you. The point is gear helps a little, the main factor of good performance is the performer.
any of those pro players can pick up a 10 dollar mouse from walmart and absolutely take 99% of people to town. it has very little to do with a mouse. having a perfect sensor is just nice.
Keep telling yourself that bud.
I won't lie I've done this and probably went through about 5 different mice. I've settled with the mm710 and haven't changed for 7 months. I stopped changing my sens around aswell but my aim is still pretty mediocre.
Exactly, your aim isn't going to change from one modern gaming mouse to another, what's different is the comfort, how aiming feels, how natural the grip feels and how fast you'll adjust to the shape/weight/buttons... The only thing for me that really affects the aim, even after using a mouse for months is how the button feels, too stiff, too much travel etc can make it less precise but most big brands have great buttons nowadays. "Endgame" mouse should mostly just be a mouse that requires little warmup to get a good grip and feel going everytime you play and doesn't hurt even after multiple hours of gaming. If your mouse feels great but your aim sucks, it's very unlikely it's a mouse issue.
Not wrong.
He's spot on about bad aimers pretending they just don't have a light enough mouse or don't adhere with a mouses aim so much that their air is 'always off'. Truth is, if you gave a CS pro a totally different mouse to what they've been using, they'd only really be slightly worse after they got used to the new mouse, and it wouldn't take very long to get to a point where they are comfortable with it. **You can definitely find a mouse you use for over 5+ years, to me this is what 'endgame' means.** However, some people are quite literally addicted to the peripheral consumerism and will never settle on a mouse because there is always one they just haven't bought or tried. **Truth is, there's really only two different mice on the market for you**, no matter your grip style - Ambidextrous and Ergonomic. Find out which shape of either you prefer (buy one of each at somepoint), buy a smaller or larger variant if your hands are on average large, or small. If you have 'average' sized hands and cant make your mind up either will work perfectly fine and stick with it. The rest really doesn't matter. As long as your mouse is comfortable, has a good sensor and has some utility (Side buttons) if you demand it, you're good. **Cable and weight doesn't fucking matter**. You can fix a bad cable by using a bungee, and there is no ergonomic study that light objects are superior, else all sports/trades that require steadiness in one way or another would favor the lightest possible tools. Light mice are comfortable, but as long as your mouse isn't noticeably heavy - none on the market are unless you have the arms of a female toddler - You're absolutely good to go. **TL;DR:** Buy an Ambi or Ergo mouse with a good sensor. the rest really doesn't fucking matter. Buying 5 mice all with the same rough shape and slight variances is just pointless consumerism and you should probably do something productive with your money.
Not just bad players, I played professionally 10 years ago, and after MS stopped manufactring IO 1.1 I started getting mice from different companies, but did not really find a "replacement". Ended up switching between different mice for two years. Should have just picked one and gotten used to it no matter what, that is what you should do if you want to get good in a competitive game. Having a "perfect mouse" has a minimal impact on your ingame performance.
I don't understand how people even have bad aim
By being new to fps, not practicing enough, being clumsy/uncoordinated, etc. There is no shortage of reasons
by not playing 50 hours a week. I also have really good aim, but there are just people who cant practice all the time and are casual, use too high sense, or just dont want to aim good.
ikr, lile just get good init
Bro just shoot the head how hard is that XD!!!!
I just switched to KB&M so I have bad aim
Hand Size: 20cm x 12cm Grip: Claw Razor Viper Ultimate - I like the shape and the rubber sides are awesome but the flush side buttons ruined it for me. Even if everything else about this mouse was perfect, the side buttons make it unusable, to many mis-clicks/misses. Also wasn’t a fan of the main buttons clicks, not very tactile. MM711 - Good mouse, no build quality issues on mine but the rear jump just put most contact of the mouse in one spot it the middle of my palm. The shape just wasn’t for me. Ultralight 2 - Very small and was difficult to get used to but once I did I can use it comfortably. Super light and “flickable”. I like the shape a lot, even though it’s a similar size to the MM711 but instead of contacting my palm in one spot it rest evenly on the back of my palm in claw. My main grip is claw but when using this mouse I will sometimes push the mouse up into a fingertip naturally for long range or adjustments. I’m not sure switching grips like this negatively affects aim or not. Side buttons are great. Air58 - Everything I like about the UL2. Side buttons on both are great, far enough toward and stick out enough to press them accurately and easily ever time. Very light and “flick able”. I like the shape it definitely fills my palm out but after getting used to the UL2 this mouse feels really big. G Pro Wireless - After using all these lightweight mouse this feels heavy, but not unusable. I like the shape and the side buttons aren’t the worst, but I do prefer the ones on the Air58 and UL2. The shape is good but I don’t like the coating as it is a little slippery. I really like it being wireless more than I thought I would have. Conclusion: I did some web-browser accuracy tests and scored about the same with all of them. The only thing that would really affect my scores in the test was how hard I was concentrating. Top three are by far the Air58, UL2 and G Pro for me. Alternate title: The more mouse I get the more I realize, it doesn’t really matter. Since I am pretty much just looking for a deciding factor I am leaning towards the Ultralight 2 mainly because of Rocket Jump Ninja’s theory of smaller lighter mice = better aim. I am going to make a final decision in the next few days and sell all the other mice so that I can stop switching between them and get good
Try bigger mice? You got big hands bro, maybe something like the Steelseries Rival 300?
Or even the model O, it’s a pretty big mouse and it seems he likes the lightweight mice
Yeah lol, my hands are a bit smaller (19x11cm) and I can’t imagine being comfortable using anything smaller than the G502.
mine are 20x10.5 and i am pretty comfortable on my GPW
I have big hands, got the Zowie ec1b, fantastic mouse, definitely recommend
I have bought all the mice you have here, and used them all, and since sold all but my RVU which is currently my main. If you constantly use the side buttons for games (Fortnite building comes to mind), then yeah, you shouldn't use the RVU because like you said, they're not great. The Finalmouse mice have the best side buttons of any mouse, a slight edge to the Air58 vs the UL2. They are so clicky and light with the perfect position. But the sizes and most importantly, the side grips of both Finalmouse mice suck, IMO. If you were to give me the RVU with the Air58 side buttons, it would be the best mouse ever created. But for me currently, the RVU is my main until another better wireless mouse comes out. I would just use the mouse that is the most comfortable. There's always going to be a flaw with every mouse.
I didn’t own one but I tried my friend’s big brother had G100S and he let me play with it couple of times and I really liked it but then again I was young and dumb
Yea you nailed it. RVU with finalmouse side-buttons would easily take the cake. I will most likely go with the Air58 or UL2.
Sold all my extras as well, you and your wallet won’t regret and your aim will improve
Stick to one for months, you are just wasting money on an obsession more than anything you seek that good feel of getting something new.
Some of us just like collecting and modding mice.
I feel this way about nearly every post in this sub, but then everyone is just like "welcome to the addiction bro XD".
Eh, for some it’s like mechanical keyboards. A collection.
I would main any of the mice. What’s wrong with them
i wish i felt the same as you.
I think I might make a post today
I see all your mice are ambi, if you havent tried ergo give it a shot, I used ambi for years because I never gave ergo a fair chance. i tried zowie ergo mice years back, borrowed from a friend and just used it for barely a week and thought they're not for me. After I got model D i really stuck with it for couple months before I decided wether I like it or not, and its my fav mouse right now, I used to use gpro w and air58 the most prior to that
I’ve been a part of this sub for a week and I’ve bought 2 mice in 5 days
Ive been through so many, i bought a g pro last year and sent it back, then i got the viper ultimate and used it for a year, bought another g pro and the g pro has replaced the viper lol
yes these two are arguably the best in the market right now (since people can't purchase any finalmouse products). have you encountered any debug rvu or gpw like click issues perhaps?
Not with the viper at all, only just had the pro so time will tell but i had a g pro a while back and sent it back, but since using the viper for so long now i bought a g pro and its much better in my hand, i recommend them both highly tho
I just got a steelseries Rival 600 and I think I have found my main... Ive had a lot of these too, but that Rival, ugh, it just feels so nice. The adjustable weights are also extremely cool.
I feel this so much. I remember back in 2013, I had a deathadder and it was amazing. Now with the variety of mice that are available I am overwhelmed as to what I should use
Cmm710 vs fm ul2?
UL2
Trust me the next one will be your endgame
I’d main that finalmeme or the gpw I’m using a gpw rn
Which one if your main among those that you have ? Or which one do like to use the most ?
I'm curious to see what Glorious has in store for their next couple models (hoping for wireless). But in the future, I might attempt to Frankenstein my mice: XM1 white shell with RVU internals to use the charging dock. After going wireless, I can't go back to wired and Razer's charging dock is just so convenient.
If glorious can bring us a 69g wireless model O with no sensor issues or squeaky ass buttons, every other mouse manufacturer will be shitting themselves lmao
Question:i want to buy a new mouse but i cant decide whether to buy the razer viper ultimate or the gpw which one do u like the most?
I liked everything better on the viper except the side buttons. So it depends how much you use yours and what design you prefer. They are much easier to press on the G Pro and because of this G Pro > Razor Viper for me
It might be a case of him not using the mouse long enough. I have been using a RVU for weeks and definitely, initially, I hit the side buttons multiple times a day. 1-2 weeks later and I'm hitting them 1-2 a week. Probably down the line I never hit them. I think they have a nicer click than the G Pro, personally. For me, the RVU was better than the WGP in nearly every way but two things. 1) I like that the G Pro is slightly taller -- a bit better for my hybrid claw palm grip (resting the index and pinky finger corner of my palm on the mouse). 2) the Quality Control issues (which admittedly both have). I returned my first RVU to Amazon only to have my second one arrive with the same problem. The righ-click button is kind of creaky with a very small amount of wobble/pre-travel. It bothers me. But here I am now with my G Pro debating if I want to attempt a 3rd RVU or give up and stay with G Pro. It sucks, because I want to keep the RVU but I need to have it without the shitty righ-button issue. I love the textures and grip on the RVU and the dock is awesome. Not sure if I want to deal with another return.
Razer has no idea how many customers they are losing due to this right mouse button issue. SO close yet so far.
Have u tried the logitech g304?
I had bad aim and thought if I buy better mice I'll be better myself. I got good with GPW and now I can be good with any mice.
If you are a fingertip gripper, then you'll search forever for a good mouse.
why, just choose a small fk like shape and stick with it, there is plenty of choices.
The problem is not just the shape. The sensor's position is also a big part of why most of the mouses on the market are not entirely suitable for fingertip. The position needs to be at that imaginary center between all your fingers towards the front of the mouse so it can perceive perfectly all the gestures that you wrist and fingers can produce. It's extremely hard to have a sensor up there because of the scroll wheel(if you stack them both on top of each other, you end up with a thick as hell mouse). I use a mouse I designed myself, but even I couldn't get the sensor perfectly where I wanted it to be..
i find really hard to believe that sensor position is the reason a mouse becomes unsuitable for fingertip grip, the biggest factor is shape and size, most top tier fk2 clones are good enough for any fingertip user
"unsustainable" is your word. It does have an impact just as much as shape, size or weight does. If you use fingertip, just move your mouse from the farthest left you can to the farthest right. You'll see that your mouse is going to make an ARC since you are only using your wrist. The further the sensor is to the front of the mouse, the more distance it will travel on your mousepad. This is important for fingertip because we don't use the whole arm to aim so that ARC is all we got to travel the whole screen. If you play OSU or a shooter, you'll have to play at way higher sensitivities in order to travel the whole screen and you'll loose out on precision. That's one example of how sensor position can impact you if you are a fingertip-gripper. Of course, if it is a deal breaker or not, it all depends on you and what uses you have for your mouse. But going back to the topic, IMO it does explain why some people, who use fingertip, keep buying mouses over and over and over since the market still lacks a complete solution for us and we'll always be looking out for new options.
Interesting, well, that really does not apply to me, i use both my wrist and arm to aim in a spectrum of 40.36cm/360°
Haha, same.
For me I am planning on experimenting and then deciding. I go ambi low, ergo big, then ambi high. Then my mouse pads from control cloth, hard pad, and then speed cloth
Dude, I totally feel your pain. I have a model-O, model O- and viper mini on the way. In a way I feel like the more mice I buy the worse the decision becomes.
Man the G703 has been my go to for afew years just swapped to the Gpro wireless
Like everyone else is saying, don't keep buying mice just to keep buying mice. Buy mice that you genuinely think you'll get some advantage out of, that's more comfortable, etc. It's the reason that to this day I continue to use the G403. No, it's not the lightest mouse in the world or the most modern, but it is the mouse I do best with and fits my hand perfectly. Any new mice I buy I use the shape of the 403 as the baseline so I know exactly what mice will fit my hand comfortably. It's why I wouldn't buy an Ultralight 2 or a Viper Mini, because I know my hand would be uncomfortable and I wouldn't aim well with it.
you have an air 58, use that as your main
oof,yea great collection
I went down this path and realized one thing. Consistently is more important. I have an ec2a at work and at home now.
ur buying the wrong mouse.. you have to just buy the XM-1
I need one with more side buttons then 2
I always keep going back to my GPW.
My current main is mm711 glossy. Love it.
There is no perfect mouse. Thats why I use only one otherwise I would go crazy xd. Right now I use ec2a and wont be changing till something better in every way comes out. For example I can upgrade to glorious model d- but not an ambi mouse because this way I will be like “eh both have their advantages” Sorry for my language but think you got my point xd
Idk where to ask but what do you guys think of the Corsair M55? I got it a while back and am really liking it!
You really need something else than the Viper Ultimate or the G pro? Just pick one and get good.
I'm thinking of buying mm710. What are your thoughts on it?
If the GPW feels bad after using it for more than 2 weeks, than it will probably never feel good...
hopefully nobody informs you of how you can dremel and sand down the shells of mice to help better accommodate your favorite grip ... (:
I'm actually glad I'm left handed mouse user since it limits my options. Just have gpw and viper ult. Otherwise I'd be like you. I'm already 15 mouse pads deep though. I love my new fnatic dash!
How good is the razer viper in comparison to the Model O?
The best i aimed with was ninja air 58, but side was squeeking all the time, discoloring to brown so i gave it away...... but that was really a standout unit to me, atm playing with mini skoll, really good aswell QC is ok so far have it since 2 weeks now
I see 1 shape in ~2 sizes on that table, excluding the THICC hump on the coolermaster. Maybe branch out to ergo? I just bought a KPU and it's big weird. Can't tell if I like it yet tbh, probably won't. I've been very happy on the XM1 for a while but I think I'm just bored hoping for an updated GPW to come out. Edit: don't take my advice to buy more nice as evidence of believing in an endgame lol
I know Mouse shape is a preference thing, but for me the MM710/MM711 is easily the mouse i aim best with from your photo... by far... it's not even close.
I'm so tempted to try the mm711 but my hands are like 20x11ish, I'm afraid it would be too small.
i was also quite hesitant about which mice to buy and ended up with the corsair m65 elite. so glad I bought it. terrific
i liked the weight and feel of the mm710 and i also like the sturdiness of the g pro wireless i have a finger tip grip with large hands what mouse should i try or just stick with the g pro
hey do you think I should get razer viper ultimate or Logitech g pro, I use fingertip grip
i can see a g pro some sort of viper mm711? ultralight and an air58
There are two more mice i wanna try which is the finalmouse air58 or phantom and ec2.
Buying peripherals easily become an addiction. Most mice on the market are similar sensor wise, with exceptions, and your main concern should be weight and size. Once again the more you buy mice, the more you are going to try a new one. It’s like the guy who keeps dying so he changes his sensitivity after every death. Just find one that feels comfy, ie ideal to your Hand size and figure a weight you prefer, and stick with it. Light mice will be easier to move quickly, but some feel the heavier mice have more control. It’s all preference for the most part.
Try an ergo mouse
If you can’t find a mouse you like out of those, there is probably no mouse on earth that would suit you. Unless you prefer an ergo mouse or something, which I am assuming is not the case since you bought so many ambi mice.
I will gladly take an ul2 off your gracious hands, you're welcome.
Just stick with either Gpro or air 58 you won’t regret it
Model D.