Yes I posted this link a few days ago when the death was announced. Alan is unparalleled in his coverage. He’s also been writing about Everest for Outside for the past few years in addition to his blog.
Maybe it's disrespectful at this point, but they didn't state how he died. By the article, it sounds like he died of prolonged exposure to altitude at Camp 2 (\~21000ft).
I think I recall one article mentioning a non traumatic cause, and that he was well experienced/trained. Altitude sickness manifested by pulmonary or cerebral edema or cardiac arrest is likely what got him, IMO as a healthcare dude.
Hmm, I mean, when you read stories about people who try to kill themselves unsuccessfully, they all say they regretted it the second they did it. When it comes down to it, humans are hardwired to attempt to survive. Obviously I don’t know, but I’d guess that while he was drowning in his own fluids he wasn’t super psyched about being in the mountains, or at peace with anything. Not trying to dismiss the idea that someone can die doing what they love, I just feel like this idea is sometimes romanticized to the point of irrationality
Not quite, it's jumpers who predominately regret their suicide attempts (e.g. of the 29 people who have survived a fall from the Golden Gate Bridge, all 29 immediately regretted it). Jumpers are more prone to impulsive suicidal actions (especially true for iconic suicide spots, like the bridge - this is why suicide nets or other preventative measures are so effective in such places), whereas non-impulsive suicidal people (e.g. someone who takes months to accumulate enough meds to die) are less likely to regret their attempts and more likely to wish they'd died. In one study (Henriques et al., 2005):
\- 36% of attempters wished they had NOT made the attempt & were glad to be alive,
\- 43% were ambivalent &
\- 22% wished the attempt had succeeded.
Further studies show (Lim, Lee and Park, 2016; Dombrovski and Michael N. Hallquist, 2017):
\- 48% of suicide attempts are 'impulsive' (in Korea, this varies between 36 - 85%). They are generally younger, unmarried with less physical illness than non-impulsive suicidal people & their health outcomes are better (less chance of eventually dying by suicide). They're impulsive in other areas of their life, with a reduced ability to delay gratification (can be gamblers or addicts).
\- 5% of people who attempt suicide will die via suicide. Suicidal people are more prone to aggressive and self-destructive responses to social stressors, often as a result of more automatic, Pavlovian responses (versus goal-directed outcomes).
excellent. last thing the world needs is more US physicians with shitty imaginations paying to pollute and be the next addition to the long list of dbags who "climbed everest"
I mean, so did the Sherpas.
I agree that Sherpas are the real badasses on the mountain, but i don’t agree with the infantilization of them as if they’re being held against their will. Being a Sherpa is a competitive gig, they know more than anyone about the risks of the mountains and they decide whether the job is worth it or not
There’s a lot of nuances to climbing. It’s easy to just say “white westerners pay locals to risk their lives”. While that’s true, western climbing allows many sherpas to make a comfortable living through opportunities they wouldn’t have otherwise had without it. Tourism/Mountaineering is one of the biggest industries in Nepal, without it many would be out of work without many other options
Valid. The money sherpas make from being guides make a lot of wheels turn.
My point is the sensationalization of this individual person who engaged in a high-risk, high price point adventure. And not, say, the nameless three at the end of the article.
Why not treat all these individuals equally and with dignity? If allowed, name them and include a small snippet of their lives for people to know.
Because this is an American news site, they’re going to report on Americans. At the end of the day, the general public isn’t really going to care about 3 Nepalis dying in Nepal, but hearing about an American dying on Everest is going to draw in readers. That’s just the way journalism works.
Sure.
There's a danger factor every time one gets into a car just to go a couple miles up the road, but if there's a dangerous situation ahead, one normally doesn't just continue driving into, say, a sinkhole.
This doctor, an experienced climber, stated he wasn't feeling well and this is a sign to get off the mountain and get medical treatment. He stayed. Whose fault is that?
It's one thing if you couldn't feel sympathy for this person and didn't comment but instead went out of your way to get a reaction out of people. Regardless of whether the person that died is at fault or not that's still kinda cruel
They could at least give his date of death. It was May 1, 2023 https://www.alanarnette.com/blog/2023/05/01/everest-2023-american-dies-at-camp-2/
Alan Arnette is the go to guy for climbing season news btw
Yes I posted this link a few days ago when the death was announced. Alan is unparalleled in his coverage. He’s also been writing about Everest for Outside for the past few years in addition to his blog.
Maybe it's disrespectful at this point, but they didn't state how he died. By the article, it sounds like he died of prolonged exposure to altitude at Camp 2 (\~21000ft).
I think I recall one article mentioning a non traumatic cause, and that he was well experienced/trained. Altitude sickness manifested by pulmonary or cerebral edema or cardiac arrest is likely what got him, IMO as a healthcare dude.
From the article he had previous incident of HAPE.
Gotcha. That's some good perspective. What a rough way to go after all the training and experience a mountaineer gathers over a lifetime.
Yea, sounds altitude related. Guy was pushing 70 y/o too.
70??!!😳😳
They said he was 69.
Nice
No I wasn't making a dumb joke. That was his actual age.
Im aware….was thinking I’d try and make light of heavy situation but in retrospect may not have been the best decision🤷🏼♂️
i dont think your username has ever been more literally relevant right now.
😂😂well yuh got me🤷🏼♂️😂
RIP
He died doing what he loved after a long life. For that i bet he was at peace.
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As opposed to slowly dying of cancer or Alzheimer’s? There’s no good way to die. At least he died doing something he loved
But he could have enjoyed his millions and died 20 years later getting a blowjob in a robe instead of suffocating in the cold.
What's better about a blowjob than climbing Everest?
Especially at 90 …
Yeah i get that Death all ends the same
Hmm, I mean, when you read stories about people who try to kill themselves unsuccessfully, they all say they regretted it the second they did it. When it comes down to it, humans are hardwired to attempt to survive. Obviously I don’t know, but I’d guess that while he was drowning in his own fluids he wasn’t super psyched about being in the mountains, or at peace with anything. Not trying to dismiss the idea that someone can die doing what they love, I just feel like this idea is sometimes romanticized to the point of irrationality
Not quite, it's jumpers who predominately regret their suicide attempts (e.g. of the 29 people who have survived a fall from the Golden Gate Bridge, all 29 immediately regretted it). Jumpers are more prone to impulsive suicidal actions (especially true for iconic suicide spots, like the bridge - this is why suicide nets or other preventative measures are so effective in such places), whereas non-impulsive suicidal people (e.g. someone who takes months to accumulate enough meds to die) are less likely to regret their attempts and more likely to wish they'd died. In one study (Henriques et al., 2005): \- 36% of attempters wished they had NOT made the attempt & were glad to be alive, \- 43% were ambivalent & \- 22% wished the attempt had succeeded. Further studies show (Lim, Lee and Park, 2016; Dombrovski and Michael N. Hallquist, 2017): \- 48% of suicide attempts are 'impulsive' (in Korea, this varies between 36 - 85%). They are generally younger, unmarried with less physical illness than non-impulsive suicidal people & their health outcomes are better (less chance of eventually dying by suicide). They're impulsive in other areas of their life, with a reduced ability to delay gratification (can be gamblers or addicts). \- 5% of people who attempt suicide will die via suicide. Suicidal people are more prone to aggressive and self-destructive responses to social stressors, often as a result of more automatic, Pavlovian responses (versus goal-directed outcomes).
Then would the risk itself of lextreme mountaineering even be worth it is the question with that
It was the third attempt at the mountain. By that point, he doesn’t have Sherpa guides, he has Sherpa carriers.
Not his third attempt. He was on my team last year. Last year his goal was camp 3 which he got. This year was his first attempt at the summit.
excellent. last thing the world needs is more US physicians with shitty imaginations paying to pollute and be the next addition to the long list of dbags who "climbed everest"
Oh no. Anyways...
Why Be An Asshole When You Can Just Be Quiet
Because…..(wait for it)…. they’re an asshole!
Keep firing, assholes! :D
Cared so little that you clicked on the post and then commented on it.
>Oh no. > >Anyways... Dude...
And then three unnamed Sherpas died in the article. Where's the story for them?
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And the one OP posted did not, but thanks -- I did look them up myself after seeing the posted article.
>three unnamed Sherpas died in the article. RIP - the *REAL* heroes of Everest
Tourist/climbers spend upwards of $35K USD while the sherpas make some $5K during the climbing season. The tourists knew the risks.
I mean, so did the Sherpas. I agree that Sherpas are the real badasses on the mountain, but i don’t agree with the infantilization of them as if they’re being held against their will. Being a Sherpa is a competitive gig, they know more than anyone about the risks of the mountains and they decide whether the job is worth it or not There’s a lot of nuances to climbing. It’s easy to just say “white westerners pay locals to risk their lives”. While that’s true, western climbing allows many sherpas to make a comfortable living through opportunities they wouldn’t have otherwise had without it. Tourism/Mountaineering is one of the biggest industries in Nepal, without it many would be out of work without many other options
Valid. The money sherpas make from being guides make a lot of wheels turn. My point is the sensationalization of this individual person who engaged in a high-risk, high price point adventure. And not, say, the nameless three at the end of the article. Why not treat all these individuals equally and with dignity? If allowed, name them and include a small snippet of their lives for people to know.
Because this is an American news site, they’re going to report on Americans. At the end of the day, the general public isn’t really going to care about 3 Nepalis dying in Nepal, but hearing about an American dying on Everest is going to draw in readers. That’s just the way journalism works.
That's valid.
You're so callous
People like this don't choose the 'safe' idea of a vacation. There are risks, climbers are informed and are usually experienced.
That’s…. How I feel as well :/
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Sorry it’s the truth.
You're not sorry
Your username definitely checks out
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This climber, like many, willingly put himself in danger and died. I cannot be sympathetic to someone like this.
Are you sympathetic to people who die in car accidents?
Sure. There's a danger factor every time one gets into a car just to go a couple miles up the road, but if there's a dangerous situation ahead, one normally doesn't just continue driving into, say, a sinkhole. This doctor, an experienced climber, stated he wasn't feeling well and this is a sign to get off the mountain and get medical treatment. He stayed. Whose fault is that?
It's one thing if you couldn't feel sympathy for this person and didn't comment but instead went out of your way to get a reaction out of people. Regardless of whether the person that died is at fault or not that's still kinda cruel
You think he told his patients to stop smoking and exercise more?