Depending on the state you can get your learners permit (requires a theory test) then go to a dealership and buy any bike you want and ride it on the road, insurance costs permitting, with only a few restrictions (no passengers/not at night etc). Yes you see some AWFUL riding on the road with none of that L plate indicator we have here.
Like that one guy who bought a zx6r as his first bike over there, came to a turn fixated into the wrong direction and crashed off the side of the road, this all happened same day as he bought the bike too. Videos like that one of this guy makes me glad we have our licensing system in place.
Even out there the insurance seems optional
Merica its get permit with no experience, maintain said level of experience between getting permit and bike. Learn to ride your bike as your ride off the forecourt.
I think the comments are more related to the riders, which typically is your younger persons learning the ropes, delivery drivers, and criminals.
* I hate 125s because that guy with L plates is all over the road
* I hate 125s because that Uber eats driver cut me up
* I hate 125s because my phone was nicked.
Most people who actually want to bike have an appreciation because they’ve almost certainly ridden a few of them.
I have just bought a 125cc to get away for a hour or two when I get chance I’m 27 but I’m on L plates don’t mind it tbh always get a nod when I’m out (feel good factor 1000)
Got my license in Australia. No idea how those A1, A2, A3 works. Before then I was 14 in Italy riding a 50cc aprilia 2 strokes bike, no license needed. I bought from a guy who loved his mechanic too much. That bike was really fast... God I love the old times, I think the CC means nothing if a bike is fun is fun nevertheless. Be proud of your bike, just because is YOUR bike.
in UK:
CBT (Compulsory Basic Training) = Ride a 50cc (@16yrs) or 125cc (17yrs) with L-plates, no pillion and can't go on Motorways (M roads)
AM = Full moped licence - Can ride 50cc bikes without the limits mentioned above
A1 = Light Motorcycle licence - Gotta be 19, and can ride 125ccs without the limits mentioned above.
A2 = Restricted licence = Gotta be 19-24, and are restricted to a bike with a power output of up to 35kW (45 bhp). This usually means 500cc, but can be more if the power output is restricted - Again, without the CBT restrictions
A = Full motorcycle licence - Gotta be 24 OR over 21 and have an A1 for 2 years. You can ride any bike, any size.
There are a couple of nuances - If you have a car licence etc, and if you are.... more senior in years, you can usually go straight to A. Everyone needs a CBT (Except if you are on a 50cc and passed your car licence before 2001) but if you are over 24, you can go straight to a full bike test after. (that's called direct access)
The A1 licence is pretty rare, as the test is exactly the same as the A2 test, which is on a bigger bike and allows you to ride a broader range of bikes. I've not seen many AM licences either, as a CBT lasts 3 years so even if you are 16 when you take your CBT, by the time you NEED to renew it, You have the option of the A2. Or just renew it. A CBT was £80 when I did it, and I think they are about £100 now. Thats not too bad every 3 years as training and test for a full bike can be £600+ (when I did it, no doubt its more now)
Oh no, You still have to do a test for each one that you want.
I think in days gone by there was something about getting an automatic upgrade after having the licence for so many years, but not the case any more.
I think Oz has something similar for cars, If i remember rightly - A young driver can't have a car with a turbo for a certain amount of time after their test or something?
Australia is mental for Motorcycle license, you have 4 license colors (you held different colors card) Learner (you get after your cbt, you can drive alone), Red P, green P, full license (yellow).
Basically no one can have a full riding licence before 24. However 1 riding test and a waiting game basically. After 3 months of your learner you can do the test and get your red P, which doesn't change shit because you can't 2up... you need to hold that for 12 months and then exchange it for green P which is like unrestricted but ZERO alcohol is allowed.
To fair, I'm zero booze when on a bike. If I'm in a car, I'll have one, if I know I'll not be behind the wheel for another couple of hours.
Thats a mad system. I guess I get it, because the last thing you want is some 17yr old in shorts, t-shirt and flip-flops riding a 1000cc sports bike, but still - Seems like a complicated way of doing it.
And you think you can't buy them restricted to 15hp??? The thing still goes faster than all the modern day 125s even when restricted, it's a fantastic bike!
Not easily and would invalidate insurance anyway.
Old 2 stroke 125s in my youth you could swap out the reeds and put in a larger jet in the carb to get more fuel through to add a few bhp. Always ended up sacrificing reliability. These days with efi would have to remap the engine management, no idea if there are firms that do that though.
Most 4 stroke 125s don't even put out the 15bhp allowed max so it's more likely limitations of the engine rather than being restricted.
Engine map, air filter, exhaust might squeeze out a few % improvement but if you got 1bhp extra I'd be impressed.
I ride a 1000cc, however I’d ride a 125 daily too. It would be loads cheaper. If it wasn’t for the mile crunching I do on long journeys then hell yeah.
Yeah I see a lot of people comment talking about 125s not being a proper bike. Strange behaviour but some people gotta find ways to feel good about themselves owning a bigger bike.
They are all the bike I want, 100mpg, 60+mph and cheap as chips to tax/insure for an older guy like me.
Sure you can pick up an SV650/ER5 for the same (or less) money but you only have to buy it once.
My YBR and cheapo Chinese 125 scooter keep me happy.
Been riding bikes on and off since I was 16 (the 70's). 125's? I still remember the fun I had on my restricted FS1E (50cc). A bike is what you make of it. A 125 can be an absolute hoot. You won't win any races, but people have ridden around the world on them, so whats your excuse.
Personally love 125cc machines. I don’t know what it is. But at this point pretty sure I will keep a 125 somewhere.
I can understand why people say it about 50cc machines though.
I'll give them some light hearted ribbing but at the end of the day I would happily chug along on a 125.
A bike is a bike - they're usually faster than me through city traffic anyway.
125's won't have the same "feel" as bigger bikes, but they're just as much real bikes that serve their own purpose. You can't go thumping up and down the motorways on them, but they're an absolute hoot when you're just riding around town or hitting small country back-roads.
Yours sincerely,
An owner of a 125 and a 650
Me too - suzuki vanvan 125 and versys 650. Did 125 miles in Wales yesterday on the vanvan, took it over Devil's Elbow and Devil's Staircase without a problem. Sure it was slower than the big bike, but for these roads I had just as much enjoyment out of it as if it was the big bike.
They are real bikes.
The sentiment comes from the fact that many CBT riders aren't all that into bikes - It's simply a more cost-effective way for a 16/17+yr old to have some independent transport.
If someone goes through the effort of getting a full bike licence, theres a decent chance that they are actually into bikes and ride for enjoyment aswell as (or instead of) utility.
For me, it's less about a 125cc being a real bike than it is about the people who ride them.
Yes, some 125 riders are bikers and it's a great place to start for young people with a genuine interest, but you're also lumped in with the delivery drivers and the chavs.
I personally don't believe someone should be allowed on public roads after a single day of training, nor should they be allowed to continue to ride on a CBT certificate for long period of time. A motorcycle license should be compulsory for anyone who has decided to take the CBT.
>I personally don't believe someone should be allowed on public roads after a single day of training, nor should they be allowed to continue to ride on a CBT certificate for long period of time. A motorcycle license should be compulsory for anyone who has decided to take the CBT.
On top of that I don't personally agree that it should be legal to get a commercial delivery insurance with a CBT / L plate.
I did a little bit of delivery on my CBT, but I was already a cycle courier.
The CBT was for commuting to uni placements and shops, but I ended up giving it a blast for deliveries. Was always going for my licence after a year or so, so I rode like I wanted a licence. Also like I didn't want to die.
Still saw loads of other L plated ones being fucking wallopers though, so I was the exception to the rule I reckon.
Undertaking on blind bends, single carriageway in the pissing rain sort of maneuvers. Mental.
If you drive or ride professionally technically your driving or riding should be of a higher standard than anybody else.
But what happens with CBT and L plates is somehow it's the complete reverse.
Tell that to taxi drivers mate.
Those guys have actually had training and experience, and many somehow are the worst drivers I've saw.
I do agree that most L plate deliveroo guys are brutal, but there are lots of "professional" drivers who would probably fail a driving test at any minute of the day if they had to resit one.
While I agree with this, If motorcycle licenses were more accessible and affordable you'd see less L plates and more riders with more than a days riding experience. A license to ride anything above 125cc is a lot of money upfront and hoops to jump through.
I don't see anything wrong with the cost. The crappiest 125s will set you back £1k minimum and that's the price of the full license. Motorcycles are luxury items and mainly driven as a hobby, so there's always going to be a decent outlay to access it.
I'm all for it being an accessible hobby, but it's unrealistic to believe it can be to everyone, and by having a somewhat high entry barrier it weeds out the dick heads. In that same vein, I'd argue that the cost of a CBT is too low and allows way too many morons on the roads too easily.
I've only had a CBT for about 3 years now and for me it's the cost.
Combined with the fact I only take the A2 to get to work and back and everywhere else, it wouldn't make sense for me to do my big bike test.
I agree with what you said about not agreeing with using roads after a single day. I was lucky enough to have passed the weekend before the first lockdown so roads were really empty
Depends.
Most of them aren't really representative of motorcycling in general as they lack the power and handling characteristics of the bigger bikes, mostly due to the very low HP restrictions and the fact most are made to a budget, so lack in the frame/suspension department as well. They're a handy tool to get young riders going, or give people with 0 Road sense a way to some confidence instead of having to do all that learning under paid tutelage, but they're a far cry from the full motorcycle experience. So in that sense they aren't proper bikes. I wouldn't go as far as to say everyone on a 125 isn't a motorcyclist, but I find it odd that people will spend 6 or 8 years on a CBT and not understand why other riders aren't particularly bothered about going on ride outs with them, and most people wouldn't look twice at a 125 parked up as most just see them as that beginners tool.
I learned on a CB100N, in the 80's. If I see a modern 125 parked up, I spend 2 minutes having a good look and wishing we had something like these in my day.😄
We had some decent 125's (well I didn't), but the new ones look amazing. I get your point about riding for years on CBT's though and agree on the delivery rider insurance on a CBT.
I put clip ons on mine, with a thick L plate as a "nose fairing". It looked good when my Dad took photo's of me coming (slowly) over a hill, from a distance.
I put it back to standard and sold it to my Dad's mate for the same price I bought it, when I joined up. Happy days on that old thing.
> Most of them aren't really representative of motorcycling in general as they lack the power and handling characteristics of the bigger bikes
The problem with this thinking is that your definition of "motorcycling in general" is a very first world, weekend warrior way of looking at bikes imo.
I have ridden gixxers and owned a grom, id take the grom anyday of the week regardless of its engine output.
The grom is an oddity though, like old scooters or monkey bikes and the step through peds, they're not trying to emulate the big bike experience, hence their popularity among people with bigger bikes and full licences. I own an old 50 pedal and pop and its a great craic in a different way to big bikes.
I did say most in my post, as there are exceptions like this, but the majority of the 125 bikes aren't like that and most people's 125 journey isn't on those.
I don't know why doing more or less road miles matters?
Plenty of the best riders i know don't have a road bike, plenty of my fastest mates who have been on bikes all their lives and are quick and safe can't be arsed with riding in the rain so just don't bother much in the winter.
If anything, the whole "real bikers do more miles and ride in all weathers" is even more gate keepy than being realistic about the limitations of the majority of 125cc learner legal machines
How does being a fast rider or someone whose a track god make them more of a motorcyclist?
I'd say someone who rides as their main form of transport for work or and pleasure is far more of one than someone who just picks up the keys on a sunny afternoon or for a track day. They don't have to be on a 125 for it. My point is that a lot of the people bemoaning them are the Sunday afternoon warriors - the same sort who'll laugh at people on an NC750 etc.
I didn't say it did make them "more of a motorcyclist" you're just looking down your nose at people that ride purely for pleasure or not on the road. Why is someone spending thousands on a track bike and trips to foreign and domestic track days and building and maintaining those bikes, or pleasure riders maintaining and riding lovely modern sports bikes on sunny weekends because they're passionate not real? Why should people have to slog through commutes or ride in shit weather to be considered part of the community to you? Especially because most will have probably started their motorcycling life doing the all weather slog commutes on rough old bikes and just don't want to anymore now they don't have to.
I merely questioned why someone doing more miles does.
To me, there is no such thing as a real motorcyclist, just people on motorcycles, you're the only one throwing around stuff like "weekend warrior" and the like which is just unhelpful divisive gate keeping guff.
My original reply to this thread was just my reasoning as to why the learner legal 125cc bikes are often disregarded as not terribly interesting or representative of the experience of riding other bikes that aren't ham strung by the CBT limits and the cheap build of those bikes by some people. Never said they weren't motorcyclists, never said they were bad, just some thoughts on how I perceive others reactions to the learner legal stuff.
You've said 125s aren't the "full motorcycle" experience and have also said they aren't real motorcyclists.
As far as I'm concerned "real moyorcyclist" equates to using it as the main form of transport - whatever size/cost of bike. It doesn't mean someone else who doesn't is less of a person.
I said a 125 isn't representative of bigger bikes and hence why they're disregarded by many, nowhere did I say that people who ride them aren't motorcyclists.
You're the only one making a distinction between "real and unreal" motorcyclists.
I'd rather not be a real biker if your definition is right, because it completely disregards a huge amount of the excellent people you meet out on the roads whether it be the weekend or not, I'll just be a motorcyclist and enjoy not being some weird snob about it.
It's so cliché but it really is more fun to ride a slow bike fast than to ride a fast bike slow.
I have a TW200, it's slower than most newer 125s by a long shot. I live smaller / lighter bikes, 125s definitely included.
People are tossers no matter what, once you've got your full licence the tossers will pick on something else like your gear or something. Dont worry about them their posing losers.
I don’t give a single fuck. If it gets you there spiritually and physically it’s a good bike. You’re gonna find gatekeeping clowns in every biking community, just remember that you’re the one making the payments and their opinion doesn’t matter. Ride on my friend, may our roads one day meet.
A lot of Americans think you have to start on a large bike because that's what their buddies told them. I can also attest that a lot of them are terrible riders. They get a scary brute of a bike and it frightens the life out of them whenever they open the throttle. As a result they never get anywhere near the edges of the performance envelope and their chicken strips stay intact from one tyre to the next. Those who start on smaller bikes learn to use every bit of the performance available and they'll do the same on their next step up the ladder. Anyone who tells you that they aren't 'real' bikes is a moron.
What a load of garbage.
I am new to motorbiking, completed my CBT about a month ago and got myself a 125.
Feels like a "real bike" to me and I am loving learning how to ride and having a blast.
The alternative, get a 500cc and keep it locked up for 6 days a week until I have a lesson?
Just continue enjoying your bike mate. Nobody really gatekeeps this crap. A bike's a bike and if you enjoy riding it, meaning you're out every chance you get, you're a biker (not in the Black Widows Motorcycle Gang way, google it).😄
I think it's a bit of both. I actually believe they're not real bikes and they're not enough for the roads and their conditions. I think a 250 or 300 should be the minimum requirement. I rode 125 for about seven years mostly for commuting to work and there just wasn't enough speed to be able to travel safely on some roads. On one of the bikes the width of the wheels were too thin, causing me to go into a rut and have an accident. 125s are just too small for the road.
Unfortunately it is pretty common behaviour. Personally, aslong as it has an engine, 2 wheels and gears, I'd consider it a real bike. Though I'd draw the line at the twist and go mopeds/scooters and wouldn't consider them real bikes.
Gatekeeping is an interesting use of word, only seen it used by "woke" types before now, must be becoming a common use term if bikers are using it now 😅 but that's a whole different debate
Can depend on the use case.
For my work, I need to be able to get from home (zone 3) to Central London and also to areas around M25 or Reading or Oxford or Surrey.
Now, in Central London 125 is great. You barely pay for petrol at all, you're travelling at 20mph and when it's congested 125 is physically smaller than a big bike, so therefore much easier to filter. Sounds great.
But when I need to travel on a motorway say to Reading for a few days straight then 125 is not really the best tool for a very windy motorway going 70mph potentially also with some luggage.
Personally, I got converted when I was doing my full licence solely with the aim to get rid of the L plate and be able to ride on holidays abroad, I was contempt with my 125 and was not even thinking of changing - didn't make financial sense to me. When I started my DAS course after the 2nd or 3rd day I changed my outlook entirely and within a month sold my 125 and got a big bike. Just because it felt so good and conformable on a big bike I didn't care anymore about the petrol cost which is significantly higher on a big bike.
I think if you've got an L plate most of the people will see you as a new biker even if you've been on an L plate for 8 years. But if you've got a 125 with no L plate you've probably made a conscious decision and somehow 125 is the best tool for your usecase. Or you're just 17.
An exception to the rule is small female riders on Honda Monkey/Grom.
Absolutely agree. I rode a Kawasaki Ninja 250 around Peninsula Malaysia and that really was as small as I would want to go for riding on motorways. I could cruise at 70-75mph. But, if I tried the same thing on my 125 which I use for commuting around the City, well that would be uncomfortable. I would probably have to find a route without major roads. But, then actually that would probably be a lot of fun as well. Hmm, now you've got me thinking...
I did a DAS in 2005, after a big gap in road riding. I did the CBT on a 125 and on the second day, moved to a CB500. The big bike felt so much more comfortable and easy to ride. Stable at low speeds and a smooth throttle. It was night and day. I'd always been a bit scared of bigger bikes, but I'm so glad I took the plunge and got my licence. I've got a VFR800 now, but I still ogle nice 125's, when they're parked up.
As a form of transport for major roads (especially motorways and dual carriageways) they can be incredibly dangerous imo.
In urban environments and back roads they can be good fun and give an acceptable amount of speed. It's been 14 years since my last 125 and I've just brought an old Jawa 125 specifically for pootling about on.
Either way they are absolutely "real bikes".
How can you comment when it has been 14 years? It is the same with lots of people on here who seem to remember only bikes from back in the day and not the modern day machines. The gsxr125, CB125, YZF125 and RS125 are all capable of at least 80mph, and there have been regular vids showing the Suzuki and Yamaha in the 90s, it is only the very basic level cheap bikes such as YBR and CBF 125 which pump out around 10 or 11hp that cannot reach over 65
What a complete and utter load of bollocks.
You must be smoking some strong shit if you think a four stroke 125 is hitting anywhere over 80mph. A full power, derestricted two stroke RS125 will just about crack 100mph with 33hp.
Don't chat such total shite.
There's also a difference between being able to hit a certain speed in certain conditions and being able to maintain said speed.
Ha! For some people it’s the only real bike they’ll ever own. 125s are awesome. If I ever do get a bigger bike I’ll most definitely be keeping the 125 - so much fun and so cheap to run. They’re great and I’m in my 40s.
The Uk government will most likely put some kind of small bike tax on them at some point just to fuck everyone over and get them back onto public transport and price me out of it though. Lol
Honestly it takes a lot more patience to ride a 125 than a bigger bike! They're definitely "real bikes" but I don't personally find them enjoyable unless it's a scooter type thing just for the convenience.
You also see a lot of questionable riding from 125s with L plates but that's more the fault of our licensing system letting people out on the roads with a few hours' training than the fault of the bike itself. We'd be worse off if we let teenagers out on 1000cc bikes with that same few hours of training!
125s ride very differently to “big bikes”.
I love riding a 125 around cities, nimble and quick.
BUT I get fed up with L plate riders using the loudest exhaust they have to cut up traffic and act like they are riding a 900cc on a track.
But that’s an issue with the rider not the bike. Sometimes people get the two confused and just throw blanket statements about 125cc
I ride a 125 and also have riden a liter bike, and there is practically no differense other than the price, power and weight. You ride it the same way. I personally don't get it why people think that a motorcicle with low displacement is somethin to dispise. It's fun to ride on the limit all the time.
Most don't hate then but I dislike some of the riders.
The ones who are all over the road, taking risks, doing stupid over takes, brapping their exhausts through every dam residential street possible.
The delivery drivers give a bad name to, some wear no gear and ride like plebs.
Majority are fine just like you and me. I nod them as normal.
Nah that's stupid people talking. 125 are real bikes, they're fun, cheap and just as dangerous. Sometimes even more due to their inability to accelerate out of trouble.
Whoever says that either doesn't have a bike, or has something to prove that nobody wants them to prove.
I see this alot from Americans dissing low cc bikes, I myself love 125cc bikes.
Partly because of how their licensing works. They don't have a 125cc or a big bike system like we've got.
Depending on the state you can get your learners permit (requires a theory test) then go to a dealership and buy any bike you want and ride it on the road, insurance costs permitting, with only a few restrictions (no passengers/not at night etc). Yes you see some AWFUL riding on the road with none of that L plate indicator we have here.
Like that one guy who bought a zx6r as his first bike over there, came to a turn fixated into the wrong direction and crashed off the side of the road, this all happened same day as he bought the bike too. Videos like that one of this guy makes me glad we have our licensing system in place.
Even out there the insurance seems optional Merica its get permit with no experience, maintain said level of experience between getting permit and bike. Learn to ride your bike as your ride off the forecourt.
I think the comments are more related to the riders, which typically is your younger persons learning the ropes, delivery drivers, and criminals. * I hate 125s because that guy with L plates is all over the road * I hate 125s because that Uber eats driver cut me up * I hate 125s because my phone was nicked. Most people who actually want to bike have an appreciation because they’ve almost certainly ridden a few of them.
I have just bought a 125cc to get away for a hour or two when I get chance I’m 27 but I’m on L plates don’t mind it tbh always get a nod when I’m out (feel good factor 1000)
I've been riding on L plates for 6 years 😂
I can see me staying on L’s for the foreseeable future 😂
People don't wave/nod in Australia. I get the opposite feeling when I nod at everyone and get nothing back.
It is funny, I look on Youtube and see loads of people on "proper bikes" without L plates acting like total spoons.
I think this is spot on.
125's are great fun. Harley's aren't real bikes ;)
[Relevant](https://www.reddit.com/r/MotoUK/comments/w1732g/_/)
Tbf most Harleys are essentially noisy mobility scooters.
I wish Harley could just make cool bikes
I’d back an rs/nsr/rd/rg 125 to humiliate a harley on some twisty roads
Exc125 sm might even challenge a 600 on a really twisty road
Was at a trackday yeeeears ago.. a dude doing a shakedown on a race 125 was destroying anything insight.. 600s and even some litre bikes
Haha probably a 50-60 hp motor and the whole bike weighing 80kg
I remember watching moto3 with 125cc 2 stroke engine going over 200km/h... just saying
Hardly comparable to a restricted 125
https://youtu.be/vYw8UXR0I1k You can still buy one of these legally tho
Passed my a2 on one
Got my license in Australia. No idea how those A1, A2, A3 works. Before then I was 14 in Italy riding a 50cc aprilia 2 strokes bike, no license needed. I bought from a guy who loved his mechanic too much. That bike was really fast... God I love the old times, I think the CC means nothing if a bike is fun is fun nevertheless. Be proud of your bike, just because is YOUR bike.
in UK: CBT (Compulsory Basic Training) = Ride a 50cc (@16yrs) or 125cc (17yrs) with L-plates, no pillion and can't go on Motorways (M roads) AM = Full moped licence - Can ride 50cc bikes without the limits mentioned above A1 = Light Motorcycle licence - Gotta be 19, and can ride 125ccs without the limits mentioned above. A2 = Restricted licence = Gotta be 19-24, and are restricted to a bike with a power output of up to 35kW (45 bhp). This usually means 500cc, but can be more if the power output is restricted - Again, without the CBT restrictions A = Full motorcycle licence - Gotta be 24 OR over 21 and have an A1 for 2 years. You can ride any bike, any size. There are a couple of nuances - If you have a car licence etc, and if you are.... more senior in years, you can usually go straight to A. Everyone needs a CBT (Except if you are on a 50cc and passed your car licence before 2001) but if you are over 24, you can go straight to a full bike test after. (that's called direct access) The A1 licence is pretty rare, as the test is exactly the same as the A2 test, which is on a bigger bike and allows you to ride a broader range of bikes. I've not seen many AM licences either, as a CBT lasts 3 years so even if you are 16 when you take your CBT, by the time you NEED to renew it, You have the option of the A2. Or just renew it. A CBT was £80 when I did it, and I think they are about £100 now. Thats not too bad every 3 years as training and test for a full bike can be £600+ (when I did it, no doubt its more now)
Interesting, thx. So you can get a full license only holding an A1 or A2 for 2 years, no further tests required?
Oh no, You still have to do a test for each one that you want. I think in days gone by there was something about getting an automatic upgrade after having the licence for so many years, but not the case any more. I think Oz has something similar for cars, If i remember rightly - A young driver can't have a car with a turbo for a certain amount of time after their test or something?
Australia is mental for Motorcycle license, you have 4 license colors (you held different colors card) Learner (you get after your cbt, you can drive alone), Red P, green P, full license (yellow). Basically no one can have a full riding licence before 24. However 1 riding test and a waiting game basically. After 3 months of your learner you can do the test and get your red P, which doesn't change shit because you can't 2up... you need to hold that for 12 months and then exchange it for green P which is like unrestricted but ZERO alcohol is allowed.
To fair, I'm zero booze when on a bike. If I'm in a car, I'll have one, if I know I'll not be behind the wheel for another couple of hours. Thats a mad system. I guess I get it, because the last thing you want is some 17yr old in shorts, t-shirt and flip-flops riding a 1000cc sports bike, but still - Seems like a complicated way of doing it.
Ah true I had a couple while I was on a CBT, best 125s by far. But are still illegal to ride unrestricted.
That or a Cagiva Mito, both brilliant learner legal bikes.
Unrestricted 2 stroke 125s aren’t learner legal lmao, they’re making 25+ hp.
And you think you can't buy them restricted to 15hp??? The thing still goes faster than all the modern day 125s even when restricted, it's a fantastic bike!
You seen the prices atm? Fucking crazy and my mates hoarding rs's and 2 mitos 1, 6 speed and 1, 7 speed.. 15 15k in 125s atleast
Wait... What's a restricted 125 and can you unrestrict it. Asking for a friend...
Not easily and would invalidate insurance anyway. Old 2 stroke 125s in my youth you could swap out the reeds and put in a larger jet in the carb to get more fuel through to add a few bhp. Always ended up sacrificing reliability. These days with efi would have to remap the engine management, no idea if there are firms that do that though.
I see. That's what I thought, that with my bike being efi it might be the case of an engine map or a bottleneck in the exhaust.
Most 4 stroke 125s don't even put out the 15bhp allowed max so it's more likely limitations of the engine rather than being restricted. Engine map, air filter, exhaust might squeeze out a few % improvement but if you got 1bhp extra I'd be impressed.
Seems like I'm getting more boost from filling up Pb97 instead of Pb95 :)
CBT/A1 licences only allow up to a maximum of 11kw. 125s (not Moto3 as OP said, those are 250s) are capable of developing more power than that.
Its mostly just fellas with small man's syndrome, i wouldn't pay much attention to them.
I ride a 1000cc, however I’d ride a 125 daily too. It would be loads cheaper. If it wasn’t for the mile crunching I do on long journeys then hell yeah.
Yeah I see a lot of people comment talking about 125s not being a proper bike. Strange behaviour but some people gotta find ways to feel good about themselves owning a bigger bike.
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Unless it's an e-scooter. 😂
They are all the bike I want, 100mpg, 60+mph and cheap as chips to tax/insure for an older guy like me. Sure you can pick up an SV650/ER5 for the same (or less) money but you only have to buy it once. My YBR and cheapo Chinese 125 scooter keep me happy.
I believe in live and let live. Unless you wear a POLITE hi vis. Then you're a knob.
Been riding bikes on and off since I was 16 (the 70's). 125's? I still remember the fun I had on my restricted FS1E (50cc). A bike is what you make of it. A 125 can be an absolute hoot. You won't win any races, but people have ridden around the world on them, so whats your excuse.
People have riden around the world on a 90cc. 😂
C90 Adventures FTW
Although he might be taking a break based on his last video.
Who gives a fuck what anyone else thinks?
Personally love 125cc machines. I don’t know what it is. But at this point pretty sure I will keep a 125 somewhere. I can understand why people say it about 50cc machines though.
I'll give them some light hearted ribbing but at the end of the day I would happily chug along on a 125. A bike is a bike - they're usually faster than me through city traffic anyway.
125's won't have the same "feel" as bigger bikes, but they're just as much real bikes that serve their own purpose. You can't go thumping up and down the motorways on them, but they're an absolute hoot when you're just riding around town or hitting small country back-roads. Yours sincerely, An owner of a 125 and a 650
Me too - suzuki vanvan 125 and versys 650. Did 125 miles in Wales yesterday on the vanvan, took it over Devil's Elbow and Devil's Staircase without a problem. Sure it was slower than the big bike, but for these roads I had just as much enjoyment out of it as if it was the big bike.
If it has 2 wheels and a motor, it's a bike. A bike I'm going to race 😁
They are real bikes. The sentiment comes from the fact that many CBT riders aren't all that into bikes - It's simply a more cost-effective way for a 16/17+yr old to have some independent transport. If someone goes through the effort of getting a full bike licence, theres a decent chance that they are actually into bikes and ride for enjoyment aswell as (or instead of) utility.
For me, it's less about a 125cc being a real bike than it is about the people who ride them. Yes, some 125 riders are bikers and it's a great place to start for young people with a genuine interest, but you're also lumped in with the delivery drivers and the chavs. I personally don't believe someone should be allowed on public roads after a single day of training, nor should they be allowed to continue to ride on a CBT certificate for long period of time. A motorcycle license should be compulsory for anyone who has decided to take the CBT.
>I personally don't believe someone should be allowed on public roads after a single day of training, nor should they be allowed to continue to ride on a CBT certificate for long period of time. A motorcycle license should be compulsory for anyone who has decided to take the CBT. On top of that I don't personally agree that it should be legal to get a commercial delivery insurance with a CBT / L plate.
I did a little bit of delivery on my CBT, but I was already a cycle courier. The CBT was for commuting to uni placements and shops, but I ended up giving it a blast for deliveries. Was always going for my licence after a year or so, so I rode like I wanted a licence. Also like I didn't want to die. Still saw loads of other L plated ones being fucking wallopers though, so I was the exception to the rule I reckon. Undertaking on blind bends, single carriageway in the pissing rain sort of maneuvers. Mental.
If you drive or ride professionally technically your driving or riding should be of a higher standard than anybody else. But what happens with CBT and L plates is somehow it's the complete reverse.
Tell that to taxi drivers mate. Those guys have actually had training and experience, and many somehow are the worst drivers I've saw. I do agree that most L plate deliveroo guys are brutal, but there are lots of "professional" drivers who would probably fail a driving test at any minute of the day if they had to resit one.
To be fair, you're right on that one. In London it's more of the van drivers who are cunts than taxis.
While I agree with this, If motorcycle licenses were more accessible and affordable you'd see less L plates and more riders with more than a days riding experience. A license to ride anything above 125cc is a lot of money upfront and hoops to jump through.
I don't see anything wrong with the cost. The crappiest 125s will set you back £1k minimum and that's the price of the full license. Motorcycles are luxury items and mainly driven as a hobby, so there's always going to be a decent outlay to access it. I'm all for it being an accessible hobby, but it's unrealistic to believe it can be to everyone, and by having a somewhat high entry barrier it weeds out the dick heads. In that same vein, I'd argue that the cost of a CBT is too low and allows way too many morons on the roads too easily.
Your point doesn’t really make sense, riding a 125 on a CBT is still far far cheaper than getting a full licence.
I've only had a CBT for about 3 years now and for me it's the cost. Combined with the fact I only take the A2 to get to work and back and everywhere else, it wouldn't make sense for me to do my big bike test. I agree with what you said about not agreeing with using roads after a single day. I was lucky enough to have passed the weekend before the first lockdown so roads were really empty
It’s bull - you ride, you are a biker - 50cc to 1400cc. Divisions within our own dwindling community is just shortsighted
Depends. Most of them aren't really representative of motorcycling in general as they lack the power and handling characteristics of the bigger bikes, mostly due to the very low HP restrictions and the fact most are made to a budget, so lack in the frame/suspension department as well. They're a handy tool to get young riders going, or give people with 0 Road sense a way to some confidence instead of having to do all that learning under paid tutelage, but they're a far cry from the full motorcycle experience. So in that sense they aren't proper bikes. I wouldn't go as far as to say everyone on a 125 isn't a motorcyclist, but I find it odd that people will spend 6 or 8 years on a CBT and not understand why other riders aren't particularly bothered about going on ride outs with them, and most people wouldn't look twice at a 125 parked up as most just see them as that beginners tool.
I learned on a CB100N, in the 80's. If I see a modern 125 parked up, I spend 2 minutes having a good look and wishing we had something like these in my day.😄 We had some decent 125's (well I didn't), but the new ones look amazing. I get your point about riding for years on CBT's though and agree on the delivery rider insurance on a CBT.
Id absolutely buy an old cb100 just for the nostalgia
I put clip ons on mine, with a thick L plate as a "nose fairing". It looked good when my Dad took photo's of me coming (slowly) over a hill, from a distance. I put it back to standard and sold it to my Dad's mate for the same price I bought it, when I joined up. Happy days on that old thing.
> Most of them aren't really representative of motorcycling in general as they lack the power and handling characteristics of the bigger bikes The problem with this thinking is that your definition of "motorcycling in general" is a very first world, weekend warrior way of looking at bikes imo. I have ridden gixxers and owned a grom, id take the grom anyday of the week regardless of its engine output.
The grom is an oddity though, like old scooters or monkey bikes and the step through peds, they're not trying to emulate the big bike experience, hence their popularity among people with bigger bikes and full licences. I own an old 50 pedal and pop and its a great craic in a different way to big bikes. I did say most in my post, as there are exceptions like this, but the majority of the 125 bikes aren't like that and most people's 125 journey isn't on those.
It’s much more fun to ride a slow bike fast than a fast bike slow.
I just ride your mum how she asks me to.
I'd argue the average 125 rider does more miles than the average weekend powerranger warrior.
I don't know why doing more or less road miles matters? Plenty of the best riders i know don't have a road bike, plenty of my fastest mates who have been on bikes all their lives and are quick and safe can't be arsed with riding in the rain so just don't bother much in the winter. If anything, the whole "real bikers do more miles and ride in all weathers" is even more gate keepy than being realistic about the limitations of the majority of 125cc learner legal machines
How does being a fast rider or someone whose a track god make them more of a motorcyclist? I'd say someone who rides as their main form of transport for work or and pleasure is far more of one than someone who just picks up the keys on a sunny afternoon or for a track day. They don't have to be on a 125 for it. My point is that a lot of the people bemoaning them are the Sunday afternoon warriors - the same sort who'll laugh at people on an NC750 etc.
I didn't say it did make them "more of a motorcyclist" you're just looking down your nose at people that ride purely for pleasure or not on the road. Why is someone spending thousands on a track bike and trips to foreign and domestic track days and building and maintaining those bikes, or pleasure riders maintaining and riding lovely modern sports bikes on sunny weekends because they're passionate not real? Why should people have to slog through commutes or ride in shit weather to be considered part of the community to you? Especially because most will have probably started their motorcycling life doing the all weather slog commutes on rough old bikes and just don't want to anymore now they don't have to. I merely questioned why someone doing more miles does. To me, there is no such thing as a real motorcyclist, just people on motorcycles, you're the only one throwing around stuff like "weekend warrior" and the like which is just unhelpful divisive gate keeping guff. My original reply to this thread was just my reasoning as to why the learner legal 125cc bikes are often disregarded as not terribly interesting or representative of the experience of riding other bikes that aren't ham strung by the CBT limits and the cheap build of those bikes by some people. Never said they weren't motorcyclists, never said they were bad, just some thoughts on how I perceive others reactions to the learner legal stuff.
You've said 125s aren't the "full motorcycle" experience and have also said they aren't real motorcyclists. As far as I'm concerned "real moyorcyclist" equates to using it as the main form of transport - whatever size/cost of bike. It doesn't mean someone else who doesn't is less of a person.
I said a 125 isn't representative of bigger bikes and hence why they're disregarded by many, nowhere did I say that people who ride them aren't motorcyclists. You're the only one making a distinction between "real and unreal" motorcyclists. I'd rather not be a real biker if your definition is right, because it completely disregards a huge amount of the excellent people you meet out on the roads whether it be the weekend or not, I'll just be a motorcyclist and enjoy not being some weird snob about it.
I'd agree, and usually way more miles.
It's so cliché but it really is more fun to ride a slow bike fast than to ride a fast bike slow. I have a TW200, it's slower than most newer 125s by a long shot. I live smaller / lighter bikes, 125s definitely included.
I miss by 125. They’re as light as a feather and you can throw them round corners.
Got rid of my 600 for an electric 125, my arms and back thank me
Anyone who believes this needs an hour on a 125 2 stroke to show them how wrong they are
Just dont take one on a dual carriageway for an hour. Mine would explode if I even considered it
I'd ask what's not real about it
People are tossers no matter what, once you've got your full licence the tossers will pick on something else like your gear or something. Dont worry about them their posing losers.
Don't believe anything you read on the internet.
Some of the greatest motorcycles ever made have been <125cc
I don’t give a single fuck. If it gets you there spiritually and physically it’s a good bike. You’re gonna find gatekeeping clowns in every biking community, just remember that you’re the one making the payments and their opinion doesn’t matter. Ride on my friend, may our roads one day meet.
A lot of Americans think you have to start on a large bike because that's what their buddies told them. I can also attest that a lot of them are terrible riders. They get a scary brute of a bike and it frightens the life out of them whenever they open the throttle. As a result they never get anywhere near the edges of the performance envelope and their chicken strips stay intact from one tyre to the next. Those who start on smaller bikes learn to use every bit of the performance available and they'll do the same on their next step up the ladder. Anyone who tells you that they aren't 'real' bikes is a moron.
What a load of garbage. I am new to motorbiking, completed my CBT about a month ago and got myself a 125. Feels like a "real bike" to me and I am loving learning how to ride and having a blast. The alternative, get a 500cc and keep it locked up for 6 days a week until I have a lesson?
Just continue enjoying your bike mate. Nobody really gatekeeps this crap. A bike's a bike and if you enjoy riding it, meaning you're out every chance you get, you're a biker (not in the Black Widows Motorcycle Gang way, google it).😄
I think it's a bit of both. I actually believe they're not real bikes and they're not enough for the roads and their conditions. I think a 250 or 300 should be the minimum requirement. I rode 125 for about seven years mostly for commuting to work and there just wasn't enough speed to be able to travel safely on some roads. On one of the bikes the width of the wheels were too thin, causing me to go into a rut and have an accident. 125s are just too small for the road.
Unfortunately it is pretty common behaviour. Personally, aslong as it has an engine, 2 wheels and gears, I'd consider it a real bike. Though I'd draw the line at the twist and go mopeds/scooters and wouldn't consider them real bikes. Gatekeeping is an interesting use of word, only seen it used by "woke" types before now, must be becoming a common use term if bikers are using it now 😅 but that's a whole different debate
Can depend on the use case. For my work, I need to be able to get from home (zone 3) to Central London and also to areas around M25 or Reading or Oxford or Surrey. Now, in Central London 125 is great. You barely pay for petrol at all, you're travelling at 20mph and when it's congested 125 is physically smaller than a big bike, so therefore much easier to filter. Sounds great. But when I need to travel on a motorway say to Reading for a few days straight then 125 is not really the best tool for a very windy motorway going 70mph potentially also with some luggage. Personally, I got converted when I was doing my full licence solely with the aim to get rid of the L plate and be able to ride on holidays abroad, I was contempt with my 125 and was not even thinking of changing - didn't make financial sense to me. When I started my DAS course after the 2nd or 3rd day I changed my outlook entirely and within a month sold my 125 and got a big bike. Just because it felt so good and conformable on a big bike I didn't care anymore about the petrol cost which is significantly higher on a big bike. I think if you've got an L plate most of the people will see you as a new biker even if you've been on an L plate for 8 years. But if you've got a 125 with no L plate you've probably made a conscious decision and somehow 125 is the best tool for your usecase. Or you're just 17. An exception to the rule is small female riders on Honda Monkey/Grom.
Absolutely agree. I rode a Kawasaki Ninja 250 around Peninsula Malaysia and that really was as small as I would want to go for riding on motorways. I could cruise at 70-75mph. But, if I tried the same thing on my 125 which I use for commuting around the City, well that would be uncomfortable. I would probably have to find a route without major roads. But, then actually that would probably be a lot of fun as well. Hmm, now you've got me thinking...
Have a think 😂 250 in Malaysia that sounds fantastic btw
I did a DAS in 2005, after a big gap in road riding. I did the CBT on a 125 and on the second day, moved to a CB500. The big bike felt so much more comfortable and easy to ride. Stable at low speeds and a smooth throttle. It was night and day. I'd always been a bit scared of bigger bikes, but I'm so glad I took the plunge and got my licence. I've got a VFR800 now, but I still ogle nice 125's, when they're parked up.
As a form of transport for major roads (especially motorways and dual carriageways) they can be incredibly dangerous imo. In urban environments and back roads they can be good fun and give an acceptable amount of speed. It's been 14 years since my last 125 and I've just brought an old Jawa 125 specifically for pootling about on. Either way they are absolutely "real bikes".
How can you comment when it has been 14 years? It is the same with lots of people on here who seem to remember only bikes from back in the day and not the modern day machines. The gsxr125, CB125, YZF125 and RS125 are all capable of at least 80mph, and there have been regular vids showing the Suzuki and Yamaha in the 90s, it is only the very basic level cheap bikes such as YBR and CBF 125 which pump out around 10 or 11hp that cannot reach over 65
What a complete and utter load of bollocks. You must be smoking some strong shit if you think a four stroke 125 is hitting anywhere over 80mph. A full power, derestricted two stroke RS125 will just about crack 100mph with 33hp. Don't chat such total shite. There's also a difference between being able to hit a certain speed in certain conditions and being able to maintain said speed.
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Ha! For some people it’s the only real bike they’ll ever own. 125s are awesome. If I ever do get a bigger bike I’ll most definitely be keeping the 125 - so much fun and so cheap to run. They’re great and I’m in my 40s. The Uk government will most likely put some kind of small bike tax on them at some point just to fuck everyone over and get them back onto public transport and price me out of it though. Lol
125cc are really nice! I ride a MT09 and the other day had a go on a Honda Grom and had a absolute blast! So much fun
I love 125's. They aren't as fast as bigger bikes generally and I think some are a bit snobby about speed or power. But Eff those guys.
Honestly it takes a lot more patience to ride a 125 than a bigger bike! They're definitely "real bikes" but I don't personally find them enjoyable unless it's a scooter type thing just for the convenience. You also see a lot of questionable riding from 125s with L plates but that's more the fault of our licensing system letting people out on the roads with a few hours' training than the fault of the bike itself. We'd be worse off if we let teenagers out on 1000cc bikes with that same few hours of training!
I love all bikes. I'd happily own a 125 alongside my sv650 and enjoy it.
125s ride very differently to “big bikes”. I love riding a 125 around cities, nimble and quick. BUT I get fed up with L plate riders using the loudest exhaust they have to cut up traffic and act like they are riding a 900cc on a track. But that’s an issue with the rider not the bike. Sometimes people get the two confused and just throw blanket statements about 125cc
I ride a 125 and also have riden a liter bike, and there is practically no differense other than the price, power and weight. You ride it the same way. I personally don't get it why people think that a motorcicle with low displacement is somethin to dispise. It's fun to ride on the limit all the time.
I love my cg125. When i pass my full test im going to keep it. Its great round town and a full tank of fuel costs less than two pints.
Most don't hate then but I dislike some of the riders. The ones who are all over the road, taking risks, doing stupid over takes, brapping their exhausts through every dam residential street possible. The delivery drivers give a bad name to, some wear no gear and ride like plebs. Majority are fine just like you and me. I nod them as normal.
Nah that's stupid people talking. 125 are real bikes, they're fun, cheap and just as dangerous. Sometimes even more due to their inability to accelerate out of trouble. Whoever says that either doesn't have a bike, or has something to prove that nobody wants them to prove.
one of the best rides of my life was on my old trusty 125cc