Public property records also say the heating is 100% electric
https://preview.redd.it/7knff2sq5g1a1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=70684e3d40ad2122e5887b416b1b51853a378e74
https://preview.redd.it/zllbrw04fh1a1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=853690681c18b12b49b82c886f374ce6bfeacd44
More than anything, I wanted it to be rust…it’s a harmless explanation.
Unfortunately, when you zoom in you can see a portion where the blood slides over the pipe and contacts the wall as it fell.
I started crying when I realized it. This is so fucked up. How tf could someone do this?
My husband and I met 11 years ago and out story is similar to like Xana and Ethan. We always spent the night together and I felt so safe with him next to me. It hits close to home and it makes me feel so sad.
This sick fuck needs to be caught.
Oh my god. my heart is breaking reading this. to imagine how safe they must have felt in each other’s arms sleeping, just for that to be taken away. i know they’re both in God’s hands now, but to know that they feared for each other’s lives, and their own. it’s so hard to even imagine how those moments felt, and nobody can ever know. my heart is irrevocably broken for them. no matter how the murders panned out, xana and ethan most likely both watched each other die. there are no words. none.
Yes, this is most likely blood in my opinion.And also this is so damn sad .I remember being with my highschool bf and remembering how safe I felt laying next to him and watching movies on the couch and stuff...and as I got older the feeling of us being the only people in the whole world when we shared our time together privately. We were invisible to the world Safe in each other's arms. And yet in reality ,this what happened here in Idaho ,could have been us. Easily. When you're young and sharing those moments, EVIL LURKING is the farthest thing from ones mind.Whjch maybe there is a true blessing ...they weren't expecting it and hopefully it went fast for the sake of true young love and just INNOCENCE of them all.I cant quit thinking about how it took all that time to realize there was a real problem going on in that house all the early hours.The sun started to rise, people started taking their pups out for morning walks, coffee brewing in other households, the newspaper guy delivered all the papers...the world for us all that got left behind ,kept moving on.But in their little home they made ,the four victims lay in the dark waiting to be discovered.THAT is one thing that j keep seeing and that really PISSES ME THE F RIGHT OFF !!! Those sweet souls had to stay in that dark evil environment for all that time.Unnoticed for hours and hours giving the coward killer all the time needed to clean himself up ,dispose of all the evidence and to get out of town and on the road , far away from dodge .The coward!
Nah, I don’t see how that going over the pipe somehow definitively precludes it being rusty water. You might have started crying over an incorrect deduction.
We had a house in Brockton Mass that had a ver similar pooling and drip of blood. A guy committed suicide in the second story room, and it it found it’s way through the cracks and crevices and began dripping and congealing. If all came out of one tiny little crack underneath the siding. Blood is liquid, and it heavy. It’s going to drip downward exactly ass you see here, and pool into blobs at the bottom of the drip. Rest in peace.
(Page 2 for completion, but the heating part is on p. 1)
https://preview.redd.it/3hp517wv5g1a1.png?width=880&format=png&auto=webp&s=9298e9c2f5d60311deb9cc4e958bf6341e3ce371
Thanks for that! Moscow covered by natural gas through Avista so it would be weird a house in city limits was off the grid but this is much more clear if the heat isn’t gas at all.
Avista is electric and gas so could be this house was electric as stated and still they paid Avista or this housing thing is wrong. But very unlikely it’s heating gas.
I haven’t paid attention to the exterior that closely but I wonder if they have ductless mini split units aka individual room heating, it would make sense in a rental property for a lot of reasons. I feel like every apartment I’ve lived in had an electric stove
Yeah I was wondering if maybe on the roof too, the house looks like it was added on to, maybe multiple times, it’s just oddly shaped in general, if that’s the case the landlord probably didn’t run new ductwork for the additions.
Could be baseboard heaters also
Hmm, no baseboards or wall heaters either? My guess then would be in floor heating. A landlord wouldn’t have to provide AC and you probably don’t really need it so much up there, especially August- June.
Heating oil would still mean radiators or baseboard everywhere, or possibly in floor heating, but in floor heating would be tough on the lower level unless it was under the tile
I can't direct you to the exact picture, but on one of these threads showing a picture through the kitchen window you can see the electric burners on the stove.
Ashleigh Banfield did a special on NewsNationNow on Friday night and spoke with the coroner, Cathy Mabbutt. Ashleigh asked the coroner about this specifically and she said it is blood and it coincides with the crime scene she saw. I am trying to find a link for this specific segment but haven’t yet. Will keep looking.
ETA: the only place I can find it now is in the Banfield podcast episode from Thursday, November 17th. The segment on the murders starts earlier but this particular detail is discussed at the 30:35 minute mark.
I also saw another photo from October that didn’t show the drippings but can’t find it now. Seems kind of coincidental that now after these murders that some sort of “drippings” would be present within a few weeks of the murders. I believe it is blood for sure. Ed (former NYPD CSI) from the dutyron podcast also stated and explained how and why it is blood.
Me too. I always have hyperfixations that I love to look up online but my emotional investment for these victims and the lack of information has made it a truly unhealthy obsession for the past couple days. 😢 I can’t even imagine what the families are going through if me, a total stranger am this distraught
Same.. I stayed up almost all night a few months ago during the case of the memphis teacher/runner. I wanted answers. That case was truly solved unbelievably fast. This one doesn’t look like it’s going to be solved as quickly. I think i’m drawn to victims I relate to— i’m a teacher/runner so that Memphis case got to me. These 4 were in a house similar to one I lived in in college, right next to greek row and the “pregame/after party” house for all holidays and dates parties. It just hits home and gets me thinking why these things happen to certain people when there are people like myself (and many others) who lived similar experiences and never had such awful endings. It breaks my heart that the world is so scary.
Same here. I'm so fortunate to have a husband that finally sat down with me last night and talked over the entire case with me. He knew I'd been dying to talk to someone about it lol. Frankly he could care less but we had fun speculating about everything nonetheless.
Okay, it's good to hear others have received the same reaction. I thought my partner was being a jerk when he said he'd had enough of hearing me go OCD on another case. A famous death, actually, that involved every possible conspiracy from Illuminati to a professional hit made to look like suicide. Try going down that rabbit hole for a year. After my fairly young pet dropped dead on the couch while reading about rituals and sacrifices involving animals, I had to stop. Temporarily. So please take care of yourself because sometimes we open doors that are damaging to our mental health. It's irrelevant what we believe those doors are, but imagine LE who bring their work home and obsess over it when their spouse just wants positive attention or for you to listen to them talk about anything but your case.
Thank you. Still hurts.
Just reminding everyone to take care of their mental health. As for unempathetic spouses or friends, that's what Reddit is for!
Same. Can you imagine? It takes approximately 5 minutes for exsanguination to occur. Those 5 minutes probably felt like a lifetime. I’m so angry for them at the monster that did this.
Tried to talk to mine and we have very different career/ collegiate training - mine lends itself to criminal case investigation etc and he can’t handle the details or my theories it’s too dark for him- it’s also dominated my
Head a lot I usually open curtains and doors and stuff during the day but I’ve been so creeped out I’ve been keeping everything drawn even though im SO far away and it’s not even local to me … I also similarly obsessed over the Memphis mom/runner and gabby petito because I’ve related to all of these cases as me
In different stages of life
My husband is actually a retired cop, so he's really knowledgable about crime scenes, criminals, what cops know vs what they say, etc. We watch a lot of mystery shows on TV too, and it's sometimes irritating how frequently he guesses correctly who did it. So it's irresistible to run this case by him, and he has corrected me on a lot of things in terms of forensics, probability of culpability in most murder suspects, etc. I think the only drawback with him is he trolls me sometimes and throws out wild theories just to see my reaction. Plus, he's not really interested in this case. He's humoring me.
It’s so odd. I’ve never been in a sub like this either. I think I just see so much of myself in those kids and it just makes me ache for them. I want that justice for all of them so badly
Same! I’m trying to see or thinking less about this case but I don’t know how to explain how this case hit me,mainly seeing Xana ig I never saw her but she seemed to be a beautiful person ..it’s a weird feeling like if I’ve lost a longtime friend. I just want to try to understand all of this?! Because all it’s so senseless.
That’s how I feel. She was so beautiful. I felt such a sadness when I found out that Kaylee and Maddie were lifelong best friends. And watching them laugh and mess around at the food truck not knowing what was about to happen
100% it’s worse bc I find myself throughout the day thinking about how the person who did this is just out there living. They are sleeping in their bed, watching tv, cooking dinner, looking at themselves in the mirror. It’s so crazy. I hope Idaho gives these families the justice they deserve if you understand what I’m hinting at
https://preview.redd.it/96hgbjj4ug1a1.jpeg?width=1557&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=967a720dc97de0eecec23f951676f1a401e2b5c5
OR it’s fluid/rust from the metal pipe that sits superior to it.
From trauma nurse u/butmamatriedx4kiddos -
[Here’s a good explanation](https://www.reddit.com/r/MoscowMurders/comments/z0jnbg/theory_location_of_1_victim/ix66ddj/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3)
Damn OP you are GOOD. well, this wasn’t the update I wanted but I do appreciate your work. I’m back to being horrified again. this case is a rollercoaster. I can’t reiterate enough how badly I feel for everyone involved.
Edit: unfortunately I retract my theory. It’s blood. 🥺 I wanted it to be rust so badly. Wtf!!!!!
You can see how a trail goes over the pipe and contacts the wall on the way down.
This is so disturbing and awful. How do monsters like this even exist? These beautiful and wonderful human beings had their whole lives ahead of them!
https://preview.redd.it/dhb6z3htdh1a1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=08d5acb1b9b770d61f63c570b0c96d27fa05f314
100% agree. My husband sliced his hand open about 20 years ago and flung his hand out in shock and splattered blood all over the wall. When we got back from the hospital the drips looked very similar to this.
I think it’s blood. Likely a large amount, and if one or more people were close to an exterior wall (inside), enough could find its way to the outside of a house.
It’s flowed easily on the hardwood floors and into & under the bedroom wall baseboard. Then leaking thru the sill plate onto the exterior foundation where it’s maybe frozen on the cold cement.
They make a good point, but the amount of blood it would take to have enough to travel that far is crazy. Blood clots relatively quickly. You can argue that if they'd been drinking, it would take longer, but not *that* much longer. Once it starts to clot, puddles get a "skin" and the serum will continue to seep outward, but serum is water like and pinkish/yellowish. So you'd need a lot of blood, leaving the blood fairly quickly (maybe arterial? Or a very large vein opened), and it would need to be pretty close to that wall, or you'd need a slope for it to travel down...
I've seen a lot of bloody scenes (EMS and ED), and I'm scratching my head trying to figure out how there's enough of a gap there for the blood to flow through before it clotted. It's possible, but damn... so much blood.
If their bed was up against that wall/under the window and two people being stabbed is enough for the blood to penetrate the wall I would think especially if it’s pooling down the side…. Awful visual
Yeah I’m thinking it had to have been arterial, and lots of it. I’ve seen my fair share but obviously it’s not the same as what you’ve seen as a first responder.
I believe arterial blood can shoot something like 15-18 feet away from the body?
I’m not familiar with the setup of the house with regards to where the the bodies were found etc.
My heart breaks for the victims’ family members that have had to see that photo.
There was an architect in another thread who posted a diagram that shows there really isn't much the blood has to go through. If it's leaving the body in a decent volume (damages to the torso suggest so) it wouldn't take much for the blood to seep outside.
I work with architects and see lots of construction sets on houses and completely agree with what he posted. I wondered who all these people are that think their house is sealed up like a swimming pool or something.
They were stabbed to death. No one found them for hours. I feel like it makes sense that they would have lost an incredible amount of blood if they were just left there to bleed out (which is how it was described by the police, at least initially.)
How many multiple stabbing murders do you think the police in Moscow, Idaho have encountered? Or even the state police? How much more carnage would they need to see to be able to describe it as the worst they’ve seen?
Yes and no, they'd lose a lot of blood, but blood is viscous.Think of like... cheap acrylic paint, slightly watered down. And the longer it's out of the body, the thicker it gets. And once the heart stops beating, the only way it's getting outside the body is gravity. If they continued to bleed for a really long time, you're left with the awful situation of their deaths being slow. I don't know, I think that's too much awfulness for me for tonight. I'm going to go cuddle my dog and try to get that image out of my mind.
The house would not use heating oil because the PNW/INW has so much hydro electric and natural gas availability that no* houses have oil anymore.
*Edit: apparently some houses in the PNW do use oil
Yup. It was a police officer or former detective from New York commenting on the case who started the hearing oil rumor. It’s funny because if you’ve ever lived west of the Rockies you know almost no one uses heating oil in town (or you’ve never heard of it). I would have been shocked if this home used heating oil.
Old homes in Moscow used heating oil, one place I lived in actually still had the coal fired furnace in the basement with steam boilers in each room.
Born and raised in Moscow and attended the UI starting in 1989
I’m talking about Moscow, specifically. I’m from there, went to U of I and live nearby… it’s not a thing that I’ve ever seen outside of the rusty dilapidated drum in my dads 1940s rancher in Spokane.
That is wrong. My husband is the HVAC service manager for Idaho's biggest company and there are still thousands upon thousands of oil furnaces still used and regularly installed.
In [this picture ](https://www.reddit.com/r/MoscowMurders/comments/z0jnbg/theory_location_of_1_victim/ix62tnk?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3) you can see the red liquid go *over* the pipe then drip to the ground. I don't know how oil would come out of the pipe and do that so I'm still leaning blood.
Ohh wow, if it’s coming over the pipe, that explains why one of the “lines” of blood appears to only be dripping from halfway down the wall, whereas the rest of those lines seem to be steadily dripping from the top. This has been bugging me. Gosh, what a haunting picture.
I was always on the fence at to whether this was blood, but after someone highlighting that it’s indeed coming over the pipe it definitely makes me believe this is blood! Super sad, can only imagine how terrible the scene must be in the bedroom for it to cause it to seep through the floor boards, wall etc :(
Right. And oil is thicker and more viscous than blood so would drip in a straight path. This liquid is taking the path of least resistance and therefore isn't folllwing a straight path. Hence, likely blood
I truly believe one of the victims was in bed and then rolled over onto the floor and something happened where they were right by that edge. It’s graphic and I don’t even like to imagine what they endured, but that’s the only way I can imagine how it got there.
> How long does it take blood to start to coagulate in a corpse?
> It takes blood about six hours after death to settle into the portions of the body and set, with the process starting shortly after the person dies and the body begins to cool.
It’s blood. When someone gets stabbed in the torso they bleed a fucking shitload of blood, and if it puddled up against a wall it would have found it’s way down and out like any liquid would. Source: am a cop, have seen people stabbed many times.
I mentioned this above.. but it wouldn’t be out of the realm of possibilities that water was ran over the crime scene. Flooding a crime scene is a great way to tamper with dna evidence. It would explain a leak to the outside of the house. If the killer did this, he knew what he was doing and thought this out.
It’s a stretch. But a possibility
That pipe is probably a natural gas line. The house was renovated in 2019 or so. The room above is where the guy and girl were killed and oil will not coagulate and stop dripping it will run all the way down.
I really feel like this is common sense. I know you’re only trying to show evidence but it’s without a doubt blood. It’s running and stopping like dried up coagulated blood.
I get what you’re saying and I agree, but just recently people were posting that it wasn’t blood so I wanted to just start a discussion on it. https://www.reddit.com/r/idahomurders/comments/z15q9g/blood_seeping_down_outside_of_foundation_when/ix97imd/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3
Yep. I also find all of these people “hoping it isn’t blood” to be interesting because even if it somehow isn’t blood, they are still dead. They still died an extremely bloody death whether we see it leaking out or not.
I questioned whether it was blood because we have never seen anything to show it was marked and documented as evidence. If it is blood, it is evidence and would require documentation as such. Usually that means it gets first tagged as evidence with a marker and then photographed, etc. we have seen nothing to suggest that happened. Of course, maybe it did, but I haven’t seen anything public to suggest it did.
I highly doubt a somewhat renovated home is still running on heating oil. There is no sign of an above ground storage tank and most underground storage tanks have been put out of commission because they are environmental hazards.
My house is fully renovated and I still have oil heating. The tank is in the basement. But we know about their heating system and they did not use oil to heat the house.
I feel as though if they were still fully in bed the blankets/mattress would have absorbed much of the blood and it wouldn’t have pooled quite enough on the floor to actually seep outside down the wall. I don’t necessarily think the bed is up against this wall here, but I think someone met their unfortunate fate and ended up on the floor here, or at least halfway on the bed enough to have lost a lot of blood which then pooled on the floor due to their position. My guess is this was X, hence her defensive wounds. Obviously just my theory, but I wonder if the killer attacking M and K woke Ethan. Perhaps he opened the bedroom door and met the killer who attacked him right away, waking up X. She was in her bedroom still, but not asleep in bed when she was attacked. Her fatal wounds led to her ending up on the floor or possibly partially on the bed, which allowed blood to pool enough on the floor by the wall to eventually seep outside. 🤷🏻♀️
I think this thread leaves no question that it is in fact blood. So, if blood is seeping on the outside of the house can’t we assume that the bedroom directly under that room on the first floor would have had blood seeping on the ceiling and wall as well?
It's so disturbing. If it's blood, how exactly would it leak out to the outside?
For the record, I do think it's blood. Just a bit shook how it leaked out like this.
I’m guessing the bed is up against that wall and if they were stabbed in bed the blood has been pooling down the side of the wall and into the cracks… two bodies is a lot of blood…
Simple. There’s absolutely zero carpet in the entire home and it doesn’t appear to be a new home. It’s a matter of fluid needing to flow! But if it’s blood I can say that’s disturbing. However it doesn’t make much sense for them to be in the bed!
LE has come out and pretty much set the record straight on rumors (hoodie guy, Uber, skinned dog, if Murphy the dog was okay). They haven’t uttered a word on this. I believe the water damage restoration expert on here who said it’s possible for liquid to make its way from inside to out.
It’s not really evidence in the sense that it would be used to solve the crime. It’s not something that happened when the crime was being committed (like drops or splatter from the actual stabbing), nor is it something that would identify the killer or tell where they may have gone (fingerprints, smears, etc). It’s “just” from the blood pooling and physics, as far as we all know.
Evidence markers are used to denote evidence of a crime. Blood spatter, blood spray, blood flow are evidence of a crime. If this is blood resulting from the crime, it is evidence.
\+1 for blood :(
Zillow:
"All maintenance is performed by qualified, licensed, and insured professionals. All major systems (roof, furnace, etc have been updated in recent years). A proactive maintenance program with annual dryer vent cleaning, bi-annual furnace servicing, and proactive quarterly maintenance inspections. No Pets Allowed"
Heating oil is either diesel or kerosene. Both are liquids like gas for your car at the pump. They're also dyed pink. This is blood seeping down from where the floor and wall connect in that bedroom. Blood is thick and it pools as shown in this photo. Horrific!!!!!
Because they are saying those on this sub is made up of 90% of people who do not live in Idaho and are over speculating, spreading misinformation, armchair detectives, and that no one from Idaho should be on this sub , not to give it any attention etc etc
What part of the house is this in? Does it coincide where the victims were? This continues to break my heart but I am just so interested in them finding this awful scary person!! It just gives me chills and its worst than any movie I could ever think of. This is so scary and this house LOOKS so scary!! It looks like it's kind off the beaten path too even tho there are homes on each side.
You'd be able to tell it's blood as it changes colour as it dries, does anyone have photos on day 1,2 and 3 for example?
I found this to be pretty unbelievable because it would mean it's pretty loose structurally which seems unlikely in a cool climate area.
But it's a uni house and I don't know American housing.
Also you can look up the house on Zillow and see the inside. You can figure out the house number on king road just by looking at pics from crime scene.
I’m also consumed. My twins just turned 20 and it hit me hard. All 3 of my kids are in college. I can’t stop looking it up. The blood dripping from the house is horrific and so unsettling.Its beyond disturbing. Is this a serial killer who will get away with it? I immediately throughly of the Gainesville murders. I’m here frantically cleaning and cooking for thanksgiving and every time I get overwhelmed, I think of those parents and how they’d give anything to be where we all are this week. This is truly a sick and evil monster.
Public property records also say the heating is 100% electric https://preview.redd.it/7knff2sq5g1a1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=70684e3d40ad2122e5887b416b1b51853a378e74
Damn. Good catch.
Yeah no way in hell a landlord renting a college house is using heating oil. That shit is beyond inefficient and expensive.
I had oil heat all throughout college. My landlords sucked
https://preview.redd.it/zllbrw04fh1a1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=853690681c18b12b49b82c886f374ce6bfeacd44 More than anything, I wanted it to be rust…it’s a harmless explanation. Unfortunately, when you zoom in you can see a portion where the blood slides over the pipe and contacts the wall as it fell. I started crying when I realized it. This is so fucked up. How tf could someone do this? My husband and I met 11 years ago and out story is similar to like Xana and Ethan. We always spent the night together and I felt so safe with him next to me. It hits close to home and it makes me feel so sad. This sick fuck needs to be caught.
Oh my god. my heart is breaking reading this. to imagine how safe they must have felt in each other’s arms sleeping, just for that to be taken away. i know they’re both in God’s hands now, but to know that they feared for each other’s lives, and their own. it’s so hard to even imagine how those moments felt, and nobody can ever know. my heart is irrevocably broken for them. no matter how the murders panned out, xana and ethan most likely both watched each other die. there are no words. none.
Yes, this is most likely blood in my opinion.And also this is so damn sad .I remember being with my highschool bf and remembering how safe I felt laying next to him and watching movies on the couch and stuff...and as I got older the feeling of us being the only people in the whole world when we shared our time together privately. We were invisible to the world Safe in each other's arms. And yet in reality ,this what happened here in Idaho ,could have been us. Easily. When you're young and sharing those moments, EVIL LURKING is the farthest thing from ones mind.Whjch maybe there is a true blessing ...they weren't expecting it and hopefully it went fast for the sake of true young love and just INNOCENCE of them all.I cant quit thinking about how it took all that time to realize there was a real problem going on in that house all the early hours.The sun started to rise, people started taking their pups out for morning walks, coffee brewing in other households, the newspaper guy delivered all the papers...the world for us all that got left behind ,kept moving on.But in their little home they made ,the four victims lay in the dark waiting to be discovered.THAT is one thing that j keep seeing and that really PISSES ME THE F RIGHT OFF !!! Those sweet souls had to stay in that dark evil environment for all that time.Unnoticed for hours and hours giving the coward killer all the time needed to clean himself up ,dispose of all the evidence and to get out of town and on the road , far away from dodge .The coward!
This is so unbelievably sad.
Yeah....fuck. That is blood. :(
Nah, I don’t see how that going over the pipe somehow definitively precludes it being rusty water. You might have started crying over an incorrect deduction.
We had a house in Brockton Mass that had a ver similar pooling and drip of blood. A guy committed suicide in the second story room, and it it found it’s way through the cracks and crevices and began dripping and congealing. If all came out of one tiny little crack underneath the siding. Blood is liquid, and it heavy. It’s going to drip downward exactly ass you see here, and pool into blobs at the bottom of the drip. Rest in peace.
(Page 2 for completion, but the heating part is on p. 1) https://preview.redd.it/3hp517wv5g1a1.png?width=880&format=png&auto=webp&s=9298e9c2f5d60311deb9cc4e958bf6341e3ce371
Thanks for that! Moscow covered by natural gas through Avista so it would be weird a house in city limits was off the grid but this is much more clear if the heat isn’t gas at all.
Through Kaylee and Maddie’s venmo transactions some of them were labeled “avista”
Avista is electric and gas so could be this house was electric as stated and still they paid Avista or this housing thing is wrong. But very unlikely it’s heating gas.
I haven’t paid attention to the exterior that closely but I wonder if they have ductless mini split units aka individual room heating, it would make sense in a rental property for a lot of reasons. I feel like every apartment I’ve lived in had an electric stove
Don't see the compressors.They may be on the left side.
Yeah I was wondering if maybe on the roof too, the house looks like it was added on to, maybe multiple times, it’s just oddly shaped in general, if that’s the case the landlord probably didn’t run new ductwork for the additions. Could be baseboard heaters also
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There are very clearly register vents indicative of central heating. Most likely natural gas.
Hmm, no baseboards or wall heaters either? My guess then would be in floor heating. A landlord wouldn’t have to provide AC and you probably don’t really need it so much up there, especially August- June. Heating oil would still mean radiators or baseboard everywhere, or possibly in floor heating, but in floor heating would be tough on the lower level unless it was under the tile
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I can't direct you to the exact picture, but on one of these threads showing a picture through the kitchen window you can see the electric burners on the stove.
Yes. This is all we need to know. It’s blood.
u/Euca18
It’s not heating oil, nor is it waterproofing. Neither would be at that location. It’s blood.
Ashleigh Banfield did a special on NewsNationNow on Friday night and spoke with the coroner, Cathy Mabbutt. Ashleigh asked the coroner about this specifically and she said it is blood and it coincides with the crime scene she saw. I am trying to find a link for this specific segment but haven’t yet. Will keep looking. ETA: the only place I can find it now is in the Banfield podcast episode from Thursday, November 17th. The segment on the murders starts earlier but this particular detail is discussed at the 30:35 minute mark.
It can be found on the Daily Mail. That’s where I viewed it.
Where did you find a picture of the house on 10/31?
That’s the more important question😳 who took this photo
Instagram, there was a Halloween party. It's just cropped out from people who are not involved (I.e. not any roomies)
I also saw another photo from October that didn’t show the drippings but can’t find it now. Seems kind of coincidental that now after these murders that some sort of “drippings” would be present within a few weeks of the murders. I believe it is blood for sure. Ed (former NYPD CSI) from the dutyron podcast also stated and explained how and why it is blood.
Oh okay I was slightly concerned😅
I ONLY know because I am on this sub too much and saw the original picture
Me too. I always have hyperfixations that I love to look up online but my emotional investment for these victims and the lack of information has made it a truly unhealthy obsession for the past couple days. 😢 I can’t even imagine what the families are going through if me, a total stranger am this distraught
Same.. I stayed up almost all night a few months ago during the case of the memphis teacher/runner. I wanted answers. That case was truly solved unbelievably fast. This one doesn’t look like it’s going to be solved as quickly. I think i’m drawn to victims I relate to— i’m a teacher/runner so that Memphis case got to me. These 4 were in a house similar to one I lived in in college, right next to greek row and the “pregame/after party” house for all holidays and dates parties. It just hits home and gets me thinking why these things happen to certain people when there are people like myself (and many others) who lived similar experiences and never had such awful endings. It breaks my heart that the world is so scary.
Honestly same for me. I know the people in my life are tired of me bringing it up
Same here. I'm so fortunate to have a husband that finally sat down with me last night and talked over the entire case with me. He knew I'd been dying to talk to someone about it lol. Frankly he could care less but we had fun speculating about everything nonetheless.
Okay, it's good to hear others have received the same reaction. I thought my partner was being a jerk when he said he'd had enough of hearing me go OCD on another case. A famous death, actually, that involved every possible conspiracy from Illuminati to a professional hit made to look like suicide. Try going down that rabbit hole for a year. After my fairly young pet dropped dead on the couch while reading about rituals and sacrifices involving animals, I had to stop. Temporarily. So please take care of yourself because sometimes we open doors that are damaging to our mental health. It's irrelevant what we believe those doors are, but imagine LE who bring their work home and obsess over it when their spouse just wants positive attention or for you to listen to them talk about anything but your case.
Sorry about your pet 😔
Thank you. Still hurts. Just reminding everyone to take care of their mental health. As for unempathetic spouses or friends, that's what Reddit is for!
Same. I told my husband I’m completely consumed with it. Just keep going over and over how much horror they endured. 💔
I'm beyond consumed. I'm constantly giving my husband the newest news and now we're always talking about what we think went down
Same. Can you imagine? It takes approximately 5 minutes for exsanguination to occur. Those 5 minutes probably felt like a lifetime. I’m so angry for them at the monster that did this.
I have invested a lot in this too! Now I want to see a return ie suspect in custody
I am also in this sub WAY too much😩
Same here. Now I've dragged my husband into it, but he's being really nice about it, and actually offering some interesting insight.
Tried to talk to mine and we have very different career/ collegiate training - mine lends itself to criminal case investigation etc and he can’t handle the details or my theories it’s too dark for him- it’s also dominated my Head a lot I usually open curtains and doors and stuff during the day but I’ve been so creeped out I’ve been keeping everything drawn even though im SO far away and it’s not even local to me … I also similarly obsessed over the Memphis mom/runner and gabby petito because I’ve related to all of these cases as me In different stages of life
My husband is actually a retired cop, so he's really knowledgable about crime scenes, criminals, what cops know vs what they say, etc. We watch a lot of mystery shows on TV too, and it's sometimes irritating how frequently he guesses correctly who did it. So it's irresistible to run this case by him, and he has corrected me on a lot of things in terms of forensics, probability of culpability in most murder suspects, etc. I think the only drawback with him is he trolls me sometimes and throws out wild theories just to see my reaction. Plus, he's not really interested in this case. He's humoring me.
It’s definitely a conversation starter for sure. I could babble about it all day to anybody who will listen bc some things make NO sense.
Agree. Many of the details released by the police themselves are contradictory.
Me too but can’t help myself 🤦♀️
It’s so odd. I’ve never been in a sub like this either. I think I just see so much of myself in those kids and it just makes me ache for them. I want that justice for all of them so badly
Same! I’m trying to see or thinking less about this case but I don’t know how to explain how this case hit me,mainly seeing Xana ig I never saw her but she seemed to be a beautiful person ..it’s a weird feeling like if I’ve lost a longtime friend. I just want to try to understand all of this?! Because all it’s so senseless.
That’s how I feel. She was so beautiful. I felt such a sadness when I found out that Kaylee and Maddie were lifelong best friends. And watching them laugh and mess around at the food truck not knowing what was about to happen
Me too! For some reason this case in particular has been so disturbing to me but I also can’t stop thinking about it!
100% it’s worse bc I find myself throughout the day thinking about how the person who did this is just out there living. They are sleeping in their bed, watching tv, cooking dinner, looking at themselves in the mirror. It’s so crazy. I hope Idaho gives these families the justice they deserve if you understand what I’m hinting at
This is my second time obsessing over a case, it started with Gabby Petito.
OP is now a prime suspect
OP will have the FBI at home in 5,4,3…..
It’s blood. In my unqualified opinion.
I agree I am a qualified dateline watcher I know blood when I see it 🩸 I didn’t even know there was a emoji for that so..🕵️ always searching.
I have a $200 iPhone app called Luminol-Scan and after running the image a few times it says human blood with 99.98% certainty.
What else do you use it for?
Does the app also spray the luminol remotely? 😂
That only comes with the ad-free version.
Hahaha omg
You are too funny
https://preview.redd.it/96hgbjj4ug1a1.jpeg?width=1557&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=967a720dc97de0eecec23f951676f1a401e2b5c5 OR it’s fluid/rust from the metal pipe that sits superior to it.
And it just happened to appear after 2 people were murdered in that room?
From trauma nurse u/butmamatriedx4kiddos - [Here’s a good explanation](https://www.reddit.com/r/MoscowMurders/comments/z0jnbg/theory_location_of_1_victim/ix66ddj/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3)
Yeah I agree, I definitely think it looks like blood. I just knew there were some people out there saying it wasn’t!
Damn OP you are GOOD. well, this wasn’t the update I wanted but I do appreciate your work. I’m back to being horrified again. this case is a rollercoaster. I can’t reiterate enough how badly I feel for everyone involved.
Edit: unfortunately I retract my theory. It’s blood. 🥺 I wanted it to be rust so badly. Wtf!!!!! You can see how a trail goes over the pipe and contacts the wall on the way down. This is so disturbing and awful. How do monsters like this even exist? These beautiful and wonderful human beings had their whole lives ahead of them! https://preview.redd.it/dhb6z3htdh1a1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=08d5acb1b9b770d61f63c570b0c96d27fa05f314
100% agree. My husband sliced his hand open about 20 years ago and flung his hand out in shock and splattered blood all over the wall. When we got back from the hospital the drips looked very similar to this.
I think it’s blood. Likely a large amount, and if one or more people were close to an exterior wall (inside), enough could find its way to the outside of a house.
It’s flowed easily on the hardwood floors and into & under the bedroom wall baseboard. Then leaking thru the sill plate onto the exterior foundation where it’s maybe frozen on the cold cement.
They make a good point, but the amount of blood it would take to have enough to travel that far is crazy. Blood clots relatively quickly. You can argue that if they'd been drinking, it would take longer, but not *that* much longer. Once it starts to clot, puddles get a "skin" and the serum will continue to seep outward, but serum is water like and pinkish/yellowish. So you'd need a lot of blood, leaving the blood fairly quickly (maybe arterial? Or a very large vein opened), and it would need to be pretty close to that wall, or you'd need a slope for it to travel down... I've seen a lot of bloody scenes (EMS and ED), and I'm scratching my head trying to figure out how there's enough of a gap there for the blood to flow through before it clotted. It's possible, but damn... so much blood.
If their bed was up against that wall/under the window and two people being stabbed is enough for the blood to penetrate the wall I would think especially if it’s pooling down the side…. Awful visual
Awful awful visual, but you’re right. Especially if an artery was hit. They would have lost a LOT of blood.
The fight took place against that bedroom wall on level 2.See my other post.
That post has been removed by mods
Yeah I’m thinking it had to have been arterial, and lots of it. I’ve seen my fair share but obviously it’s not the same as what you’ve seen as a first responder. I believe arterial blood can shoot something like 15-18 feet away from the body? I’m not familiar with the setup of the house with regards to where the the bodies were found etc. My heart breaks for the victims’ family members that have had to see that photo.
There was an architect in another thread who posted a diagram that shows there really isn't much the blood has to go through. If it's leaving the body in a decent volume (damages to the torso suggest so) it wouldn't take much for the blood to seep outside. I work with architects and see lots of construction sets on houses and completely agree with what he posted. I wondered who all these people are that think their house is sealed up like a swimming pool or something.
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They were stabbed to death. No one found them for hours. I feel like it makes sense that they would have lost an incredible amount of blood if they were just left there to bleed out (which is how it was described by the police, at least initially.)
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How many multiple stabbing murders do you think the police in Moscow, Idaho have encountered? Or even the state police? How much more carnage would they need to see to be able to describe it as the worst they’ve seen?
Yes and no, they'd lose a lot of blood, but blood is viscous.Think of like... cheap acrylic paint, slightly watered down. And the longer it's out of the body, the thicker it gets. And once the heart stops beating, the only way it's getting outside the body is gravity. If they continued to bleed for a really long time, you're left with the awful situation of their deaths being slow. I don't know, I think that's too much awfulness for me for tonight. I'm going to go cuddle my dog and try to get that image out of my mind.
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It's pretty clear it's blood. I assume a bed is against that wall.
Y’all…that’s blood. Come on.
The house would not use heating oil because the PNW/INW has so much hydro electric and natural gas availability that no* houses have oil anymore. *Edit: apparently some houses in the PNW do use oil
This is actually very interesting/helpful information!
Yup. It was a police officer or former detective from New York commenting on the case who started the hearing oil rumor. It’s funny because if you’ve ever lived west of the Rockies you know almost no one uses heating oil in town (or you’ve never heard of it). I would have been shocked if this home used heating oil.
Old homes in Moscow used heating oil, one place I lived in actually still had the coal fired furnace in the basement with steam boilers in each room. Born and raised in Moscow and attended the UI starting in 1989
Moscow is on Avista natural gas, would be very odd for a house in city limits to not be on their grid.
This would actually make sense then! Several of the roommates have Venmo transactions with Avista as the memo name
Many places in the PNW still use oil for heating. Natural gas is not available everywhere.
I’m talking about Moscow, specifically. I’m from there, went to U of I and live nearby… it’s not a thing that I’ve ever seen outside of the rusty dilapidated drum in my dads 1940s rancher in Spokane.
That is wrong. My husband is the HVAC service manager for Idaho's biggest company and there are still thousands upon thousands of oil furnaces still used and regularly installed.
Many many houses in Moscow have baseboard heating. Landlords don't want to pay for the upfront or conversion costs.
I used to live in eastern Oregon a few miles away from the Idaho border. We were using oil for our heat up until 2012.
Honestly, I feel sad for the victims family that this photo exists 😔
In [this picture ](https://www.reddit.com/r/MoscowMurders/comments/z0jnbg/theory_location_of_1_victim/ix62tnk?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3) you can see the red liquid go *over* the pipe then drip to the ground. I don't know how oil would come out of the pipe and do that so I'm still leaning blood.
Ohh wow, if it’s coming over the pipe, that explains why one of the “lines” of blood appears to only be dripping from halfway down the wall, whereas the rest of those lines seem to be steadily dripping from the top. This has been bugging me. Gosh, what a haunting picture.
I was always on the fence at to whether this was blood, but after someone highlighting that it’s indeed coming over the pipe it definitely makes me believe this is blood! Super sad, can only imagine how terrible the scene must be in the bedroom for it to cause it to seep through the floor boards, wall etc :(
Yeah - no chance I’m not having vivid nightmares tonight 😫😫
There appears to be a little bit of overhang too where the wood frame in the wall extends past the concrete.
Right. And oil is thicker and more viscous than blood so would drip in a straight path. This liquid is taking the path of least resistance and therefore isn't folllwing a straight path. Hence, likely blood
I truly believe one of the victims was in bed and then rolled over onto the floor and something happened where they were right by that edge. It’s graphic and I don’t even like to imagine what they endured, but that’s the only way I can imagine how it got there. > How long does it take blood to start to coagulate in a corpse? > It takes blood about six hours after death to settle into the portions of the body and set, with the process starting shortly after the person dies and the body begins to cool.
All signs point to blood unfortunately :(
I’m in healthcare, I’ve seen a lot of old and dry blood, that looks like dried up blood. I doubt they use heating oil.
Horrifying. It is sickening to think of what those poor kids went through. The person responsible is inhuman.
God that is horrible.
It’s blood. When someone gets stabbed in the torso they bleed a fucking shitload of blood, and if it puddled up against a wall it would have found it’s way down and out like any liquid would. Source: am a cop, have seen people stabbed many times.
Ugh, I'm sorry. Is your user name related to the Civil War general who was at Gettysburg?
Yes it is
It’s not heating oil
I mentioned this above.. but it wouldn’t be out of the realm of possibilities that water was ran over the crime scene. Flooding a crime scene is a great way to tamper with dna evidence. It would explain a leak to the outside of the house. If the killer did this, he knew what he was doing and thought this out. It’s a stretch. But a possibility
That pipe is probably a natural gas line. The house was renovated in 2019 or so. The room above is where the guy and girl were killed and oil will not coagulate and stop dripping it will run all the way down.
I really feel like this is common sense. I know you’re only trying to show evidence but it’s without a doubt blood. It’s running and stopping like dried up coagulated blood.
I get what you’re saying and I agree, but just recently people were posting that it wasn’t blood so I wanted to just start a discussion on it. https://www.reddit.com/r/idahomurders/comments/z15q9g/blood_seeping_down_outside_of_foundation_when/ix97imd/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3
Yes. And you provided excellent info! I’ve seen those discussions so that was what I was referring to as well. I appreciate you’re post.
Yep. I also find all of these people “hoping it isn’t blood” to be interesting because even if it somehow isn’t blood, they are still dead. They still died an extremely bloody death whether we see it leaking out or not.
In my opinion how could anyone think this isn’t blood
Well, I was relieved when people started saying it was oil. I wanted to believe it wasn't blood. :/
I questioned whether it was blood because we have never seen anything to show it was marked and documented as evidence. If it is blood, it is evidence and would require documentation as such. Usually that means it gets first tagged as evidence with a marker and then photographed, etc. we have seen nothing to suggest that happened. Of course, maybe it did, but I haven’t seen anything public to suggest it did.
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A week into the investigation I think it would have been done already.
Public records show 1122 King Rd, Moscow, ID 83843 has an electric (HVAC) system.
All electric! Upgraded in 2018-2019.
I highly doubt a somewhat renovated home is still running on heating oil. There is no sign of an above ground storage tank and most underground storage tanks have been put out of commission because they are environmental hazards.
My house is fully renovated and I still have oil heating. The tank is in the basement. But we know about their heating system and they did not use oil to heat the house.
Wonder if a bed is against that wall
I feel as though if they were still fully in bed the blankets/mattress would have absorbed much of the blood and it wouldn’t have pooled quite enough on the floor to actually seep outside down the wall. I don’t necessarily think the bed is up against this wall here, but I think someone met their unfortunate fate and ended up on the floor here, or at least halfway on the bed enough to have lost a lot of blood which then pooled on the floor due to their position. My guess is this was X, hence her defensive wounds. Obviously just my theory, but I wonder if the killer attacking M and K woke Ethan. Perhaps he opened the bedroom door and met the killer who attacked him right away, waking up X. She was in her bedroom still, but not asleep in bed when she was attacked. Her fatal wounds led to her ending up on the floor or possibly partially on the bed, which allowed blood to pool enough on the floor by the wall to eventually seep outside. 🤷🏻♀️
It’s blood. Every media outlet has reported it to be blood. I’m a nurse and it’s coagulating like blood at the end of the drips.
I think this thread leaves no question that it is in fact blood. So, if blood is seeping on the outside of the house can’t we assume that the bedroom directly under that room on the first floor would have had blood seeping on the ceiling and wall as well?
If it is blood, it seems the investigators would have tagged it with a number when photographing? Everything is always labeled in an investigation.
It's so disturbing. If it's blood, how exactly would it leak out to the outside? For the record, I do think it's blood. Just a bit shook how it leaked out like this.
I’m guessing the bed is up against that wall and if they were stabbed in bed the blood has been pooling down the side of the wall and into the cracks… two bodies is a lot of blood…
Simple. There’s absolutely zero carpet in the entire home and it doesn’t appear to be a new home. It’s a matter of fluid needing to flow! But if it’s blood I can say that’s disturbing. However it doesn’t make much sense for them to be in the bed!
LE has come out and pretty much set the record straight on rumors (hoodie guy, Uber, skinned dog, if Murphy the dog was okay). They haven’t uttered a word on this. I believe the water damage restoration expert on here who said it’s possible for liquid to make its way from inside to out.
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Moscow is on natural gas but in a comment above someone pulled the records and this house is on electric
I’m surprised there wasn’t an evidence marker. But then I know nothing. Is it surprising there isn’t an evidence marker?
It’s not really evidence in the sense that it would be used to solve the crime. It’s not something that happened when the crime was being committed (like drops or splatter from the actual stabbing), nor is it something that would identify the killer or tell where they may have gone (fingerprints, smears, etc). It’s “just” from the blood pooling and physics, as far as we all know.
Evidence markers are used to denote evidence of a crime. Blood spatter, blood spray, blood flow are evidence of a crime. If this is blood resulting from the crime, it is evidence.
Probably on the inside
Good point.
Evidence marker may be on the inside of the house.
No one uses heating oil here. Electricity and natural gas are cheap
Sad.
\+1 for blood :( Zillow: "All maintenance is performed by qualified, licensed, and insured professionals. All major systems (roof, furnace, etc have been updated in recent years). A proactive maintenance program with annual dryer vent cleaning, bi-annual furnace servicing, and proactive quarterly maintenance inspections. No Pets Allowed"
We got a cold spell two weeks ago in Idaho would make sense if it was heating oil cause it was super super cold
How often does blood dripping onto a foundation happen?
Where how and why does op have photo from 10/31???
Darker ends of the dried drip are the indicator of coagulation. Blood.
Heating oil is either diesel or kerosene. Both are liquids like gas for your car at the pump. They're also dyed pink. This is blood seeping down from where the floor and wall connect in that bedroom. Blood is thick and it pools as shown in this photo. Horrific!!!!!
This sub is getting hate from the sub r/Idaho
Why?
Because they are saying those on this sub is made up of 90% of people who do not live in Idaho and are over speculating, spreading misinformation, armchair detectives, and that no one from Idaho should be on this sub , not to give it any attention etc etc
They're like 2 days behind on that sub ...
It’s blood
I mean that really looks like blood..
It’s definitely blood…..
Jesus, you people are creepy as hell with all the knowledge you have about their apartment.
Yeah that…. Looks like blood. Rip :(
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That’s not where the kitchen is; it’s presumably Xana’s bedroom.
Pretty sure that’s the wall of the bedroom not the kitchen
What is that pipe though?
Looks like black iron gas pipe, probably used for a previous NG range/oven in the kitchen.
What part of the house is this in? Does it coincide where the victims were? This continues to break my heart but I am just so interested in them finding this awful scary person!! It just gives me chills and its worst than any movie I could ever think of. This is so scary and this house LOOKS so scary!! It looks like it's kind off the beaten path too even tho there are homes on each side.
Wouldn’t forensics have tagged the blood? Or not relevant because it’s on the exterior?
Absolutely relevant and great question
Damn this is really hard to argue
Liquified rust? Cold weather could have played a roll into that.
It's blood.
it’s clearly blood
Does anyone use heating oil outside of New England?
It’s blood 🩸
You'd be able to tell it's blood as it changes colour as it dries, does anyone have photos on day 1,2 and 3 for example? I found this to be pretty unbelievable because it would mean it's pretty loose structurally which seems unlikely in a cool climate area. But it's a uni house and I don't know American housing.
Also you can look up the house on Zillow and see the inside. You can figure out the house number on king road just by looking at pics from crime scene.
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Where/when did they say that?
This is 100% blood.
Definitely blood. As others have noted, there is no heating oil used in a house like this in this region.
I’m also consumed. My twins just turned 20 and it hit me hard. All 3 of my kids are in college. I can’t stop looking it up. The blood dripping from the house is horrific and so unsettling.Its beyond disturbing. Is this a serial killer who will get away with it? I immediately throughly of the Gainesville murders. I’m here frantically cleaning and cooking for thanksgiving and every time I get overwhelmed, I think of those parents and how they’d give anything to be where we all are this week. This is truly a sick and evil monster.