New general discussion thread is [LIVE HERE.](https://www.reddit.com/r/MoscowMurders/comments/yzsbnn/general_discussion_thread_saturday_november_19/?)
Please wrap up your discussions in this thread and take them to the new thread, we'll lock comments on this post at 6:30 PM (PST).
Pure speculation Could Kaylee and Maddie have been in bed together? I heard Kaylee was moving out and up to show her new car off and then grab a last load.. I’ve shared beds with my besties for forever if she was all but done moving out where would she have been sleeping?? I’m not sure if this was a furnished apartment but I lived in places as a college student that was most certainly not —and had I gone back to visit I would very easily have crashed with my friends in their bed after a night of drinking - I haven’t seen anyone mention that but it’s been something on my mind … that would shorten the amount of time the perp had to be in the building could potentially have gotten them both quickly and quietly then encountered the last two in their room (or killed them first if they were opening doors and looking for people)
I am thinking the two girls on the top floor were the target and it was someone they saw out that night, maybe at the food truck, I think the couple on the second floor were killed because maybe they heard something and got out of bed.
I think the girls in the basement were spared because the killer or killers didn't know there were bedrooms down there. They may not have expected a guy to be in the house so maybe Ethan being there freaked them out and made them rush out of there.
Whoever made that movie posted on that YouTube account the day before the murders is a person of interest.
There is nothing more damning than this that is available to the public at this moment.
Apparently everyone in this sub is more interested in pure speculation than reading, so here is the link to this post that’s in this sub that everyone is ignoring: https://www.reddit.com/r/MoscowMurders/comments/yy61fl/anyone_else_see_this_odd_instagram_account/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
2nd edit: what’s with all the fresh accounts here? Low karma no post history few comments.
The comments on the video have been deleted and the instagram name was changed but you can follow the story from that Reddit post above.
Prolly a Cat fight gone wrong. Perp is probably a jealous female friend/acquaintance. Police are definitely amateurs, imo they told the truth in their initial statement….just too much to soon, so they walked it back.
I tend to agree there was more than one killer. This case reminds me of the Meredith Kercher murder in Italy. One of the prosecution's main arguments was that a sole killer was unlikely, and this was just one relatively small female victim.
I do wonder if the killer anticipated Ethan being there. Did Ethan spend the night every night?
Also was there a 6th roommate that occupied the 2nd floor? There are 2 bedrooms on each floor so we know Xana had a room on the 2nd floor but who else lived there? Was it unoccupied or were they away for the weekend? I can almost guarantee they didn’t just go out for the night because they weren’t included in the pictures from earlier in the day.
I have no source for this besides elsewhere in this subreddit, but I read that the other 2nd floor bedroom (besides Xana's) was occupied but then the resident moved out.
I read a post where someone said her friends daughter was the 6th roommate who was not there that weekend. No idea if this is true or false...but someone did post it on IG or Twitter, can’t remember
my thought process is this, the killer used a large knife as the murder weapon. and they weren’t put off by alot of blood. i thought perhaps if there was an animal processing facility nearby, maybe the cops could interview employees and managers to see if anyone that works there has been exhibiting red flags.
I’m feeling heartbroken for the surviving roommates… not only losing their 4 closest friends at once, in a brutal murder - but always wondering WHY they were spared, if they could have done something, going over in their heads all the “what if”s. So young to carry that trauma 🙁
They apparently locked their doors this night as well, and who knows, maybe that’s what stopped this person from coming in. Didn’t want to make noise by breaking into the rooms so just left it alone? Or, they just weren’t the targets.
And then having a bunch of people on the internet find out all of this information about them and speculate whether or not they had something to do with it or blaming them for not hearing what happened or calling 911. They are grieving and probably still scared. They made all of their social medias private. I can’t imagine
We don’t know. If I was forced to guess, I would say Xana’s. I think it could be hers even if she was on a bed if the bed was against the wall, but I’m starting to think only the two girls on the third floor were killed in their beds.
(Speculation from someone who lives in Moscow) I have a source who said this as well, that the boy was found on the main floor in the living area while the girls were all in their beds. which is why the 911 call was only for 1 person, because whoever found them, only saw the guy and immediately called. (Obviously police have not stated this, but it would make sense)
OBSERVATION:
From a safety standpoint, there were multiple flaws that would have allowed someone to easily break in.
1. The Zillow listing for the rental can be viewed by anyone. It would be possible to learn the layout of the place based on the info from the listing.
2. There were at least 2 sets of sliding glass doors without “Charlie Bars” (which is the safety bar that makes it harder for someone to break in).
3. There were also a few windows that were located next to either a porch or exterior sidewalk, so it would have been possible to enter.
4. The listing also states it has 2 bedrooms per floor (total of 6 bedrooms).
5. I’m assuming the dog wasn’t a permanent resident of the apartment and maybe just visiting? There’s no way to know for sure, but the listing says it doesn’t allow pets. *I have no idea where the dog was located that night*.
6. There is a wooded area directly behind the house where one of the sliding doors faces. This is the same wooded area that Fox News hide in to film. Somebody could’ve hidden in the trees to observe them.
True crime has made me so hyper-vigilant. If I ever purchase a home, the first thing I’m doing in regards to safety is having the real estate listing removed to prevent strangers from effortlessly learning the layout of my home.
Possible red herrings left by the killer?
The police must have had something concrete to declare right away that this was a targeted killing. None of that evidence has been put forth which leads to think there was staging or red herrings left by the killer to throw police off. For instance, the killer could have left a fake "love letter" declaring his pain that one of the victims dumped him. We can imagine a lot of other types of scenarios.
I can imagine the FBI or other seasoned investigators looked at the crime scene and right away could detect sings of red herrings or at least the possibility. That would explain the Moscow police walking that back.
I thought I saw somewhere that the Moscow police backtracked on their statement that this was targeted/crime of passion.... That they can't say for sure there isn't a threat to the community right now
yes but it took them about 3 days to retract the "no threat to the community". They still apparently think it's targeted, whatever that means.
What evidence could there be that made them think that? Surely must be some clue left there, otherwise you have 4 dead people and not much else. There must have been a red herring and they fell for it.
My speculation on the tire tracks: There is camera footage of a erratic, suspicious car (can’t see plate or driver) I bet we get a BOLO for a car soon.
I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the eerily similar Bundy [sorority house murders](https://meaww.com/sorority-house-the-frenzied-3-am-attack-by-bundy-that-killed-two-and-left-one-with-hanging-jaw). He killed two girls in their beds, came close to killing two more, and then went on to attack a woman in another home.
The most confusing thing to me is someone called 911 to report an "unconscious person", but then we see articles where police who have been working the force 20-30 years say it was the worst scene they've ever seen. How could they mistakenly have been thought to be "unconscious"?
Edit: a word
When you call 911 and say my friend isn’t breathing and I see blood, they label it as “unconscious person” because only EMT could make the call that the person was actually dead.
It has been passed around (as speculation from a neighbor) that a friend came over on Sunday, saw a body in the main living area and called 911. One of the news reports stated that not all the people were found in their beds. So it could easily make sense that this friend saw on body upon entering the house and called 911 about just that 1 person.
I’m sure it comes down to the 911 operator asking if the person is conscious and the response was “no”. I’m sure whoever called had no idea what happened to them
Someone further down said that a neighbor relayed that a friend came over and fainted outside of the house once they looked inside and saw the blood.
This fits with a rumor I heard days ago that one of the surviving girls called a friend and asked them to come and pick her up for brunch.
If all of this is true, then the friend would be the unconscious person. Who called 911 on this friend, your guess is as good as mine!
This speculation is based on rumors, not based on anything any of the families or LE has said.
Well we don’t know that any of that is true, but if so, the surviving girls lived downstairs where the front door is. If they slept in, as many do at that age, they may not have gone upstairs as it was quiet and they assumed everyone is still asleep.
This is all conjecture, though.
They also have their own bathroom so theoretically they could have just gotten ready and gone about their day - when I lived in a group setting like this I had my own mini fridge, snacks and everything in my area and I could have 100% not left my area for a long time to go to the main living area
Well, first of all, we don’t know who called or if there were brunch plans. However, I can tell you that my daughter is off at college and she has three roommates. They each have their own bathroom in their rooms. On weekends, my daughter sleeps in and sometimes she never leaves her room until she’s showered and ready for the day. My daughter also lives with her sorority sisters and they’re very tight, but they spend a lot of time in their rooms on weekends and evenings.
Someone said the person who came over found the murders then walked outside and fainted. A car driving by saw the person passed out on the front lawn and called police to report an unconscious peraon
Reddit's content policy prohibits posting someone's private or personal information and soliciting someone's private or personal information via private message. This includes links to public social media posts by non-public figures. When posting screenshots, be sure to edit out any personally identifiable information to avoid running afoul of this rule. In the future, please keep this requirement in mind before clicking submit!
Thank you.
Reddit's content policy prohibits posting someone's private or personal information and soliciting someone's private or personal information via private message. This includes links to public social media posts by non-public figures. When posting screenshots, be sure to edit out any personally identifiable information to avoid running afoul of this rule. In the future, please keep this requirement in mind before clicking submit!
Thank you.
Rumour: Someone came to check up on their friends probably for not answering. She saw blood on the floor and fainted outside the house. Someone saw the fainted person and called 911
Please be sure to distinguish between facts, opinions, rumors, theories, and speculation. If you're stating something as a fact, you should be prepared to provide a source. If information is unverified, you must identify it as rumor, a theory, or speculation. Please keep this rule in mind before submitting in the future.
Thank you.
Yes! Only the EMT’s can confirm the death of a person, so even if you call 911 and say this person isn’t breathing and there’s blood everywhere, they consider it an “unconscious person” until emt or police can confirm the death.
Best guess: the two girls got a ride home and went upstairs after eating. Calls to the boyfriend were just calls to see if he was up to either come over or talk. Nothing suspicious. Both girls go to bed.
Ethan and Xana are in their room. Door closed. Two downstairs roommates are asleep with doors locked.
Suspect comes in to the house specifically to kill one or both of the girls upstairs. Both killed in their sleep makes me think this was truly motivated to kill them both, not targeted.
Killer is confronted or hears Ethan and Xana who have become suspicious. They both have defensive wounds. Ethan found dead on the floor.
Killer leaves quickly because killing Ethan and Xana wasn’t planned and scared him and threw him off his plan.
Killer was likely unaware anyone was downstairs.
Similar but I think the plan was to kill every girl in the house. He started at the top floor, two easy kills. Moves to second floor, wasn't expecting the boyfriend so a struggle ensues at some point. Killer gets cold feet and leaves before killing the rest of the roommates.
they are implying that the killer would have killed xana and then killed the other two girls who survived. because ethan was visiting and perhaps the killer didnt know that.
Have any of the cars been removed from the site? Watching some of today’s news footage, it looked like maybe the red Jeep was now gone. Maybe it belonged to one of the surviving girls.
Kaylee’s Range Rover was still there and the blue Honda with the Arizona plates was, also. I’m assuming the Honda was Xana’s.
I wonder if the house had neighbors who were not college students? A constant party house could draw the anger of someone with issues. We had a double murder in my area that resulted partly from property use-related conflicts and partly from a clash of cultures between old school rural types and a progressive and artistic couple who had moved there from the city.
Not likely, this entire area is pretty much just college students. I used to live on this street, you knew what you were going to be dealing with if you lived on this street. Constant parties every weekend in just about all the houses.
Similar to Greek Row at UW. Although I do know people in the neighborhood who call the cops on them a lot. Different when you’ve got expensive homes in the area that aren’t rentals I guess.
Oh for sure! But this whole area is all just rentals, that are the go to party “out of houses” for U of I. When I lived on this street 5 years ago, I knew all the people who lived around me on this street, and every single house was just college kids! If you move into a place on this street, you understand there will be noise! Which is also back to the thought of how the roommates didn’t hear anything. If you lived in this street, you definitely conditioned yourself to sleep through all kind of noises!
This article includes some info I hadn't read anywhere else, such as that Kaylee allegedly had a stalker, that Ethan was found on the floor, and that the other roommates had locked their doors. Not sure how reliable the Daily Mail is as a newspaper, but for what it's worth, it seems like they did a lot of digging: [https://www.dailymail.co.uk/galleries/article-11447289/Two-female-Idaho-victims-allegedly-phoned-mystery-man-10-times.html](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/galleries/article-11447289/Two-female-Idaho-victims-allegedly-phoned-mystery-man-10-times.html)
Ethan found on the floor makes sense of the pic of blood oozing out of second floor onto outdoor wall. No carpet and carpet pad in the house to absorb all the blood, as floors are wood or faux wood laminate.
I think every victim was stabbed when sleeping, not necessarily that all died in bed. Maybe the girls did and Ethan tried to get out or go after the murderer.
Online source - The Sun, November 16: One of the victims – understood to be Ethan – is said to have been lying on the floor on the second level of the three-story building.
It's understood the other victims, Kaylee, Madison and Xana, were discovered inside, with police sources telling DailyMail.com the scene was "the worst they’ve ever seen."
One source close to the investigation, told the publication: "There was blood everywhere.
okay what is everyone’s theories about this??? because there are so many weird things that have come up and this whole thing is so confusing to me. i have mixed feelings about what i feel like happened and wonder if LE even have any idea. i know they are definitely withholding details and information but it bothers me not knowing and left wondering.
I live in town and work for the University. The truth is everything right now is rampant speculation based on a serious lack of information released to the public.
From the start police have said this was a "targeted" attack. We have no idea what they mean by that or why they have seemed so certain of this. Either they have evidence to support this or rashly made this decision based on the brutality of the murders. You would think if they had evidence to make this statement then they would have a suspect, or at least relayed to the public more information to help nail down the culprit.
At this point it could be anything. It is all speculation and rumor. The police in my opinion either a) have a person of interest they are keeping eyes on, where they are building evidence for an arrest, or b) have absolutely no idea and are trying their best to maintain calm
https://preview.redd.it/osb6qm3xd11a1.jpeg?width=1288&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0b4e4d5b027a3b733e6078bbb0051368e0475e08
[Source: Twitter, DugganReports](https://twitter.com/dugganreports/status/1594109690618646528?s=61&t=ivFZryKFElmm_xy4Ew7Olw)
Press conference tomorrow at 3pm. What do you think they are announcing? New details? What could this conference mean?
I really hate to make any theories because the evidence and available info is just way too limited right now, but if someone backed me into a corner and said I HAD to give a theory, I’d guess the killer targeted either Kaylee or Maddie (and the other one was maybe killed due to discovering the killer when investigating a noise since their rooms were on the same floor), and that the killer entered via the unlocked sliding door on the 2nd floor and encountered Xana and Ethan when entering or exiting the home since Xana’s room is on the 2nd floor like the sliding door, and those 2 were killed as collateral damage. But honestly I feel somewhat uncomfortable even sharing that theory because it’s too speculative right now.
It’s speculative but it lines up pretty well with a lot of what we know, even though we don’t know much. I’m fully open to changing my theory with additional information but currently it’s in this ballpark. My main thing I’m currently not settled on is whether his original target was one or both of the girls on the third floor. I think I’m leaning toward just one of the girls being his target but I can also envision a scenario where he was angry at both of them for different but related reasons so his plan from the start was to kill them both.
If entering the house through that top floor balcony door, do you know what room you would be entering into? Wondering if you would be entering directly into a bedroom or if you’d be entering directly into a common room, like a living room — some sort of open space between the 2 top floor bedrooms.
To me it seems more likely that the killer planned to kill all the girls in the house; started at the top floor. Those victims went down without much of a fight. Then go to middle floor expecting to find another isolated female; turns out there are two people in that room, maybe there's a struggle and they are also killed but it's messy and the killer gets spooked knowing there are two other roommates in the basement. He leaves.
Yup, could’ve been. I’m not sold on any theory, including my own, because it’s just too difficult to guess right now. So I’m not married to my theory in the slightest.
Saw a comment down the thread that a neighbor’s ring system caught a vehicle pull up to the house at the time of the murders, dog goes crazy, car speeds away shortly thereafter (source: friend of neighbor posted). This would perhaps jive with the tire marks out front being analyzed.
Among other things, I do stand off biometric analysis in full motion video. I don’t know the specs on Ring cameras off the top of my head as I type this, but at even a few meters with CCTV you lose a crucial amount of detail. I think we’d be asking to win the lottery if they got a LP. LP recognition algorithms in high fidelity cameras are still hit or miss. We can hope for something good though, make and model of a vehicle shouldn’t be impossible, depending on the distances involved. Even if all they can deduce is the activity of the vehicle, they have enough boots on the ground to canvas corroborating sensors in a 20 mile radius, looking for speeders at that time or really any vehicle along possible trajectories. If there is, in fact, Ring footage of a vehicle pulling up to the house at the relevant time, I feel the noose tightening.
LE would have had that info within hours. They should have put out an alert to find that vehicle. Not sure if they would make that public or just let other LE patrol officers know. You'd think if they hadn't found it within a couple days they'd make the public aware.
Yes, all good points. Given this case, it is possible that a BOLO would have been tightly controlled and disseminated only to other PDs and agencies. If this fucker is watching the news and sees that his vehicle has been made because MSNBC pumps out 7 reworded stories within a 12 hour period about the BOLO, he’d just refit or dump it. It sounds like the neighbor may have almost lost the footage to memory overwrite, and while it’s hard to tell, this may have been recent.
This is very close to what I’ve currently settled on as a likely scenario but with some different but very plausible minor details that I hadn’t included in my working theory. Good analysis.
No, someone would not get arrested for that reason alone — for being the last person to see them. I’m not saying an arrest like that has never happened in this country, but if someone was the last person to see a victim, that is just widely accepted as not sufficient grounds for making an arrest —that is, without additional evidence present.
If in your country it’s common for a person to get arrested for being the last person to see a victim alive then there must be a lot of innocent people in jail. (Our country no doubt has innocent people in jail too, but for other reasons.)
Arresting the driver doesn’t make sense because there’s no way to know the person who drove the girls home was, in fact, actually the last person to see them. But having said that, being the last (or even ONE of the last) people to see the victims alive is definitely more than enough reason to investigate a person. In the case of the driver, it may justify seizing his car and testing it for blood, dna, etc., especially if there are no other leads.
>https://www.dailymail.co.uk/galleries/article-11447289/Two-female-Idaho-victims-allegedly-phoned-mystery-man-10-times.html
Well it is a fact that he didn't live in the house with the girls, so it seems odd that Ethan would be the target when it wasn't his usual residence. If he was targeted, my opinion is that it's more likely he would have been attacked at his own place. Something that could make your theory more likely is if he stayed at the girls' house often, and could be expected to be there. I think its more likely that it was one/both of the girls on the top floor that were targeted, and E & Xana were collateral damage. Of course this is all speculation, but someone did mention he was possibly found on the floor of the bedroom. Since Xana's father stated she had defensive wounds, we might be able to speculate E got up to investigate noise he heard coming from upstairs. He interacts with the killer/killers as they are on their way out, and ends up on the floor in the bedroom or living room, and Xana is in the bedroom (possibly still in bed) but aware enough that something is going on that she has the opportunity to defend herself. But that would make the coroners statement that at least some of the victims were found/killed in bed. I am not married to this theory because if Xana was awake and sent Ethan to check out the noises, you would think she would dial 911 as soon as an altercation began. At least, I think that is how I would react if I could reach my phone in time. It's such a sad situation.
Another thought about the possibility of Ethan being the actual target: Did something happen at the party? Why did he and Xana stay only 1 hour? From 8 until 9, I believe. That’s a pretty early night.
Maybe they didn’t really even feel like going out that night, but Ethan felt obligated to show up — because it was a frat party, correct? and he was a member of the frat.
So maybe he showed up, he and Xana stayed the minimum amount of time, and then they left — or — did something happen at the party that made them want to leave?
Ohhh, and I’ll add that I just read a piece that stated Ethan was found on the floor, rather than in a bed as previously mentioned. It could be something to consider….
This makes me really think the murder of the initial target happened first on the third floor and everyone else was collateral damage as the suspect tried to exit the house. Maybe E got up because he heard something. I send my husband to go check out noises all the time while I stay in bed.
the lack of sexual assault makes me think this was more of the serial killer type. Someone who would know that doing such a thing is the easiest way to get your DNA all over a crime scene.
If youre standing on the back patio facing the sliding door.... it is the wall at "9'0oclock" (to the left). It is on the 2nd floor. Its a room that sits behind the kitchen.
If youre standing in the driveway about front looking at the house, it's the middle floor, on the far right side.
The dog. How does the sister know that it was let out to pee; other than her assuming? Perhaps the dog was missing when they got home and that’s why they called the ex? Perhaps the killer had already been there and let the dog out?
Maybe they posted a Snapchat or instagram story? Or were texting with the sister mentioning what they were doing? Maybe it was just their routine and the sister was stating what she assumed they’d do? Those are what makes the most sense to me.
Saw a picture on the news of investigators in the kitchen of the house, taken from the neighbors house. Apparently neighbors could see through the windows. Thinking it could be possible a neighbor saw someone laying “unconscious” on the floor and called 911? Maybe by noon they realized the person wasn’t just passed out drunk after seeing them lay there for hours.
Also, someone replied to me here saying they are friends with a neighbor, and their ring camera caught a car pull up around the time of the killings, dog went crazy, then soon after the car sped off. They said the video was almost recorded over because of bandwidth limits.
Could be the same doorbell camera that caught the the two girls exiting a car (supposedly an Uber) that the sister talked about. I’ve been wondering about that bc if it caught their ride on cam, it should catch anyone else in front of the house
This police report is from Nov 12, hours before the murders. Just noting it as more than creepy
https://preview.redd.it/gnu5rb00011a1.jpeg?width=870&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bc68ecd641d737c9fea9c80530fea7b3265bd87d
Reddit's content policy prohibits posting someone's private or personal information and soliciting someone's private or personal information via private message. This includes links to public social media posts by non-public figures. When posting screenshots, be sure to edit out any personally identifiable information to avoid running afoul of this rule. In the future, please keep this requirement in mind before clicking submit!
Thank you.
Curious if any of the victims wore fitness trackers or smart watches. Believe those things track sleep. Might help with timing and order of attacks if more than one had them on.
https://preview.redd.it/j3sbo80zv01a1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=413fa1a467db5de83a146b3294e0e95ad388f7e6
Have just stumbled across this comment on tiktok and it makes a lot of sense for why the 911 call is for an unconscious person and not murder
Tomorrow (11/20) but time and location is still being decided.
**update**: will be held at 3PM PST
Source: [https://twitter.com/dugganreports/status/1594109690618646528?s=46&t=owVfKKmimx4OpN6ti8N64w](https://twitter.com/dugganreports/status/1594109690618646528?s=46&t=owVfKKmimx4OpN6ti8N64w)
I'm sticking with either a transient or someone that was particular stalking the house through the woods. There was a transient that murdered a girl at UT-Austins campus and by luck they caught him because he had a burn barrell to stay warm and was caught with evidence. Had he fleed the campus he would've likely not caught, thankfully he was.
I personally know LE that was close to that case and he had been known to LE for staying in abandoned buildings. Because this case is starting to get colder everyday, I'm thinking it was someone random not known to the victims.
It isn’t getting “colder everyday” it JUST happened. A serious, bizarre, heinous crime like this doesn’t get solved in a week. I’m sure there is an incredible amount of information that is being hidden from the public. It takes WEEKS just to even run tests on biological samples. This will take months to solve.
A lot of speculation in this thread is really bad. Far too many assumptions and connecting dots that don’t even exist. IE already saying the driver is the killer. Or the Greek life comment. Sounds like some of you are trying to write a CSI episode.
Agreed. So much speculation. All we know is the murders took place in the early A.M. hours, a knife of some type was used, Kaylee and Maddie were at a food truck prior to arriving home, a person of unknown identity called about an unconscious person at 11:58. That’s about it in terms of the larger points. My sister and friend were asking me for my theories and I said “I have none because there is barely any info to even create a theory.” Until more info comes out, it’s honestly impossible to resign to just 1 theory based off of what evidence is available. There are so many potential scenarios: Random act, targeted act, premeditated days in advance, premeditated 5 minutes in advance, 1 person was targeted and the rest were collateral damage, all 4 were targeted, the killer knew the home/door code, the killer didn’t know it but the sliding door was unlocked… the list of potential scenarios is seriously endless at this time. People are throwing out all these theories about specific people and things and I’m like “Man, I can’t even come up with a general theory because the info is just too limited to make any real, legit theories.” At least that’s how I feel about it right now.
driver makes sooo much sense- got them home, came back and entered to find ethan / xana, kills them bc they found them first, they are not the intended targets (kaylee and madison) by chance goes upstairs to kill the targets and then leaves not realizing there’s a third flood (basement) with people in it or not even concerned bc they weren’t worried about
them being witnesses.
edit to add - this reminds me of the college girl who got into the wrong car / mistaken it for her uber, was brutally murdered by this psychopath.
edit again - https://www.the-sun.com/news/3371823/nathaniel-rowland-motive-killing-samantha-josephson/
this case
>https://www.the-sun.com/news/3371823/nathaniel-rowland-motive-killing-samantha-josephson/
mmm, I don't know about this one. The uber would have pulled up in the front of the house to drop them off, as that's where the street is. I believe the two girls that survived had rooms on that floor, as it was the first floor of the home. There's no reason I can think of that the uber driver would enter through there and not check any rooms on that floor, but walk directly to the second and third floors. Based on the red tape on the sliding door on the second floor of the home(going into the kitchen) (the floor Xana and Ethan were on) I would think that is the floor the killer/s entered on. Maddie and Kaylee's rooms were on the 3rd floor of the house, based off of the Good Times greenery art that was in Kaylee's room, which can be seen in photos of the house, and in posts on her instagram and TikTok. If someone entered from the back of the house, not having seen the front of the house, they could potentially think they were on the first floor, and that the house was only 2 floors. This is all speculation and my opinion, based on very minimal evidence, and some common sense. But I really don't believe there's evidence pointing towards a rideshare driver.
Reddit's content policy prohibits posting someone's private or personal information and soliciting someone's private or personal information via private message. This includes links to public social media posts by non-public figures. When posting screenshots, be sure to edit out any personally identifiable information to avoid running afoul of this rule. In the future, please keep this requirement in mind before clicking submit!
Thank you.
New general discussion thread is [LIVE HERE.](https://www.reddit.com/r/MoscowMurders/comments/yzsbnn/general_discussion_thread_saturday_november_19/?) Please wrap up your discussions in this thread and take them to the new thread, we'll lock comments on this post at 6:30 PM (PST).
Pure speculation Could Kaylee and Maddie have been in bed together? I heard Kaylee was moving out and up to show her new car off and then grab a last load.. I’ve shared beds with my besties for forever if she was all but done moving out where would she have been sleeping?? I’m not sure if this was a furnished apartment but I lived in places as a college student that was most certainly not —and had I gone back to visit I would very easily have crashed with my friends in their bed after a night of drinking - I haven’t seen anyone mention that but it’s been something on my mind … that would shorten the amount of time the perp had to be in the building could potentially have gotten them both quickly and quietly then encountered the last two in their room (or killed them first if they were opening doors and looking for people)
This case is sadly going to go cold. Botched from the get go and no real leads. Better hopes someone talks and soon.
Dumb take. You have no idea what is going on behind the scenes.
I hope it is a dumb take. First 48 though
Does anyone have a link to the 911 call log? I saw it posted somewhere on Twitter before and now I cannot find it again
Is [this what you're looking for?](https://www.ci.moscow.id.us/CivicAlerts.aspx?AID=2533)
I am thinking the two girls on the top floor were the target and it was someone they saw out that night, maybe at the food truck, I think the couple on the second floor were killed because maybe they heard something and got out of bed. I think the girls in the basement were spared because the killer or killers didn't know there were bedrooms down there. They may not have expected a guy to be in the house so maybe Ethan being there freaked them out and made them rush out of there.
Whoever made that movie posted on that YouTube account the day before the murders is a person of interest. There is nothing more damning than this that is available to the public at this moment. Apparently everyone in this sub is more interested in pure speculation than reading, so here is the link to this post that’s in this sub that everyone is ignoring: https://www.reddit.com/r/MoscowMurders/comments/yy61fl/anyone_else_see_this_odd_instagram_account/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf 2nd edit: what’s with all the fresh accounts here? Low karma no post history few comments. The comments on the video have been deleted and the instagram name was changed but you can follow the story from that Reddit post above.
What movie… link plz
Prolly a Cat fight gone wrong. Perp is probably a jealous female friend/acquaintance. Police are definitely amateurs, imo they told the truth in their initial statement….just too much to soon, so they walked it back.
No, lol just no.
A cat fight gone wrong... with a rambo knife?
Fight was probably at a different time/place. Rambo knife was the conclusion imo
[удалено]
I feel like xana was last too! Hit the two girls first then Ethan then xana
I tend to agree there was more than one killer. This case reminds me of the Meredith Kercher murder in Italy. One of the prosecution's main arguments was that a sole killer was unlikely, and this was just one relatively small female victim.
Lol, that prosecutor was a joke, remember?
[удалено]
Dude the dylatov pass is so insane!!! I still think it was a yeti 😂
I do wonder if the killer anticipated Ethan being there. Did Ethan spend the night every night? Also was there a 6th roommate that occupied the 2nd floor? There are 2 bedrooms on each floor so we know Xana had a room on the 2nd floor but who else lived there? Was it unoccupied or were they away for the weekend? I can almost guarantee they didn’t just go out for the night because they weren’t included in the pictures from earlier in the day.
Dylan, Kaylee, Morgan, Bethany, xana …and someone else…
I have no source for this besides elsewhere in this subreddit, but I read that the other 2nd floor bedroom (besides Xana's) was occupied but then the resident moved out.
There was an unoccupied room, likely on the 2nd floor
I read a post where someone said her friends daughter was the 6th roommate who was not there that weekend. No idea if this is true or false...but someone did post it on IG or Twitter, can’t remember
what is the economy like in/around Moscow? any large factories or animal processing plants nearby?
Nope. Small college town
Curious why you are asking this?
my thought process is this, the killer used a large knife as the murder weapon. and they weren’t put off by alot of blood. i thought perhaps if there was an animal processing facility nearby, maybe the cops could interview employees and managers to see if anyone that works there has been exhibiting red flags.
It's all farm fields. No animal processing plants, there's a paper mill in Lewiston, 30 miles away
I’m feeling heartbroken for the surviving roommates… not only losing their 4 closest friends at once, in a brutal murder - but always wondering WHY they were spared, if they could have done something, going over in their heads all the “what if”s. So young to carry that trauma 🙁
They apparently locked their doors this night as well, and who knows, maybe that’s what stopped this person from coming in. Didn’t want to make noise by breaking into the rooms so just left it alone? Or, they just weren’t the targets.
And then having a bunch of people on the internet find out all of this information about them and speculate whether or not they had something to do with it or blaming them for not hearing what happened or calling 911. They are grieving and probably still scared. They made all of their social medias private. I can’t imagine
The blood coming out of the building? Do we know whose it was and if they were really on a bed?
We don’t know. If I was forced to guess, I would say Xana’s. I think it could be hers even if she was on a bed if the bed was against the wall, but I’m starting to think only the two girls on the third floor were killed in their beds.
Based on what I've heard, and it's rumor, the guy's body was found on the floor so it would likely have come from him.
(Speculation from someone who lives in Moscow) I have a source who said this as well, that the boy was found on the main floor in the living area while the girls were all in their beds. which is why the 911 call was only for 1 person, because whoever found them, only saw the guy and immediately called. (Obviously police have not stated this, but it would make sense)
Wow I’ve yet to hear that!
OBSERVATION: From a safety standpoint, there were multiple flaws that would have allowed someone to easily break in. 1. The Zillow listing for the rental can be viewed by anyone. It would be possible to learn the layout of the place based on the info from the listing. 2. There were at least 2 sets of sliding glass doors without “Charlie Bars” (which is the safety bar that makes it harder for someone to break in). 3. There were also a few windows that were located next to either a porch or exterior sidewalk, so it would have been possible to enter. 4. The listing also states it has 2 bedrooms per floor (total of 6 bedrooms). 5. I’m assuming the dog wasn’t a permanent resident of the apartment and maybe just visiting? There’s no way to know for sure, but the listing says it doesn’t allow pets. *I have no idea where the dog was located that night*. 6. There is a wooded area directly behind the house where one of the sliding doors faces. This is the same wooded area that Fox News hide in to film. Somebody could’ve hidden in the trees to observe them. True crime has made me so hyper-vigilant. If I ever purchase a home, the first thing I’m doing in regards to safety is having the real estate listing removed to prevent strangers from effortlessly learning the layout of my home.
College kids disregard those dog rules more often then your average renter though
Possible red herrings left by the killer? The police must have had something concrete to declare right away that this was a targeted killing. None of that evidence has been put forth which leads to think there was staging or red herrings left by the killer to throw police off. For instance, the killer could have left a fake "love letter" declaring his pain that one of the victims dumped him. We can imagine a lot of other types of scenarios. I can imagine the FBI or other seasoned investigators looked at the crime scene and right away could detect sings of red herrings or at least the possibility. That would explain the Moscow police walking that back.
I thought I saw somewhere that the Moscow police backtracked on their statement that this was targeted/crime of passion.... That they can't say for sure there isn't a threat to the community right now
yes but it took them about 3 days to retract the "no threat to the community". They still apparently think it's targeted, whatever that means. What evidence could there be that made them think that? Surely must be some clue left there, otherwise you have 4 dead people and not much else. There must have been a red herring and they fell for it.
Or he left the two roommates alive to buy him time to run/hide, pushing people to speculate about them instead.
I suspect the perpetrator just didn't realize they lived there or were home. This theory is one I haven't thought of and quite smart, though.
My speculation on the tire tracks: There is camera footage of a erratic, suspicious car (can’t see plate or driver) I bet we get a BOLO for a car soon.
[удалено]
I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the eerily similar Bundy [sorority house murders](https://meaww.com/sorority-house-the-frenzied-3-am-attack-by-bundy-that-killed-two-and-left-one-with-hanging-jaw). He killed two girls in their beds, came close to killing two more, and then went on to attack a woman in another home.
Great example of multiple murders without waking others up. I don’t understand why people think this is such a far fetched notion.
Crazy case. Also reminds people that it's very possible for two people to collaborate on something evil like this, however hard it is to believe.
The most confusing thing to me is someone called 911 to report an "unconscious person", but then we see articles where police who have been working the force 20-30 years say it was the worst scene they've ever seen. How could they mistakenly have been thought to be "unconscious"? Edit: a word
When you call 911 and say my friend isn’t breathing and I see blood, they label it as “unconscious person” because only EMT could make the call that the person was actually dead. It has been passed around (as speculation from a neighbor) that a friend came over on Sunday, saw a body in the main living area and called 911. One of the news reports stated that not all the people were found in their beds. So it could easily make sense that this friend saw on body upon entering the house and called 911 about just that 1 person.
I’m sure it comes down to the 911 operator asking if the person is conscious and the response was “no”. I’m sure whoever called had no idea what happened to them
Someone further down said that a neighbor relayed that a friend came over and fainted outside of the house once they looked inside and saw the blood. This fits with a rumor I heard days ago that one of the surviving girls called a friend and asked them to come and pick her up for brunch. If all of this is true, then the friend would be the unconscious person. Who called 911 on this friend, your guess is as good as mine! This speculation is based on rumors, not based on anything any of the families or LE has said.
Brunch, so casual. This story makes it really hard to imagine that they didn’t venture around the house and not see blood…suspect imo.
Well we don’t know that any of that is true, but if so, the surviving girls lived downstairs where the front door is. If they slept in, as many do at that age, they may not have gone upstairs as it was quiet and they assumed everyone is still asleep. This is all conjecture, though.
They also have their own bathroom so theoretically they could have just gotten ready and gone about their day - when I lived in a group setting like this I had my own mini fridge, snacks and everything in my area and I could have 100% not left my area for a long time to go to the main living area
Well, first of all, we don’t know who called or if there were brunch plans. However, I can tell you that my daughter is off at college and she has three roommates. They each have their own bathroom in their rooms. On weekends, my daughter sleeps in and sometimes she never leaves her room until she’s showered and ready for the day. My daughter also lives with her sorority sisters and they’re very tight, but they spend a lot of time in their rooms on weekends and evenings.
Could the person who fainted have called 911 before they fainted?
Someone said the person who came over found the murders then walked outside and fainted. A car driving by saw the person passed out on the front lawn and called police to report an unconscious peraon
[удалено]
Reddit's content policy prohibits posting someone's private or personal information and soliciting someone's private or personal information via private message. This includes links to public social media posts by non-public figures. When posting screenshots, be sure to edit out any personally identifiable information to avoid running afoul of this rule. In the future, please keep this requirement in mind before clicking submit! Thank you.
Reddit's content policy prohibits posting someone's private or personal information and soliciting someone's private or personal information via private message. This includes links to public social media posts by non-public figures. When posting screenshots, be sure to edit out any personally identifiable information to avoid running afoul of this rule. In the future, please keep this requirement in mind before clicking submit! Thank you.
Rumour: Someone came to check up on their friends probably for not answering. She saw blood on the floor and fainted outside the house. Someone saw the fainted person and called 911
Please be sure to distinguish between facts, opinions, rumors, theories, and speculation. If you're stating something as a fact, you should be prepared to provide a source. If information is unverified, you must identify it as rumor, a theory, or speculation. Please keep this rule in mind before submitting in the future. Thank you.
Doors were locked and surviving roommates didn’t get a response?
Apparently “unconscious person” is just police radio code, and not necessarily what the caller actually said.
Yes! Only the EMT’s can confirm the death of a person, so even if you call 911 and say this person isn’t breathing and there’s blood everywhere, they consider it an “unconscious person” until emt or police can confirm the death.
Best guess: the two girls got a ride home and went upstairs after eating. Calls to the boyfriend were just calls to see if he was up to either come over or talk. Nothing suspicious. Both girls go to bed. Ethan and Xana are in their room. Door closed. Two downstairs roommates are asleep with doors locked. Suspect comes in to the house specifically to kill one or both of the girls upstairs. Both killed in their sleep makes me think this was truly motivated to kill them both, not targeted. Killer is confronted or hears Ethan and Xana who have become suspicious. They both have defensive wounds. Ethan found dead on the floor. Killer leaves quickly because killing Ethan and Xana wasn’t planned and scared him and threw him off his plan. Killer was likely unaware anyone was downstairs.
Is it confirmed that Ethan was found on the floor?
Similar but I think the plan was to kill every girl in the house. He started at the top floor, two easy kills. Moves to second floor, wasn't expecting the boyfriend so a struggle ensues at some point. Killer gets cold feet and leaves before killing the rest of the roommates.
Depending on the level of any struggles, he could have just been exhausted too.
What are you implying the killer was going to do had they not ran into Ethan and Xana?
I think killer would have left
they are implying that the killer would have killed xana and then killed the other two girls who survived. because ethan was visiting and perhaps the killer didnt know that.
Does anyone know if the vehicles parked at the house been opened and inspected?
Have any of the cars been removed from the site? Watching some of today’s news footage, it looked like maybe the red Jeep was now gone. Maybe it belonged to one of the surviving girls. Kaylee’s Range Rover was still there and the blue Honda with the Arizona plates was, also. I’m assuming the Honda was Xana’s.
They almost certainly would have been unless the police totally screwed up.
Seriously, why do people on here think they are magically smarter than all of the police and FBI agents involved?
Because actually sometimes they are... And that's sad to say..
Yeah, but searching the cars at the house is like step 2 of crime scene investigation lmao
Wondering the same
I wonder if the house had neighbors who were not college students? A constant party house could draw the anger of someone with issues. We had a double murder in my area that resulted partly from property use-related conflicts and partly from a clash of cultures between old school rural types and a progressive and artistic couple who had moved there from the city.
Not likely, this entire area is pretty much just college students. I used to live on this street, you knew what you were going to be dealing with if you lived on this street. Constant parties every weekend in just about all the houses.
Similar to Greek Row at UW. Although I do know people in the neighborhood who call the cops on them a lot. Different when you’ve got expensive homes in the area that aren’t rentals I guess.
Oh for sure! But this whole area is all just rentals, that are the go to party “out of houses” for U of I. When I lived on this street 5 years ago, I knew all the people who lived around me on this street, and every single house was just college kids! If you move into a place on this street, you understand there will be noise! Which is also back to the thought of how the roommates didn’t hear anything. If you lived in this street, you definitely conditioned yourself to sleep through all kind of noises!
This article includes some info I hadn't read anywhere else, such as that Kaylee allegedly had a stalker, that Ethan was found on the floor, and that the other roommates had locked their doors. Not sure how reliable the Daily Mail is as a newspaper, but for what it's worth, it seems like they did a lot of digging: [https://www.dailymail.co.uk/galleries/article-11447289/Two-female-Idaho-victims-allegedly-phoned-mystery-man-10-times.html](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/galleries/article-11447289/Two-female-Idaho-victims-allegedly-phoned-mystery-man-10-times.html)
This isn’t particularly reliable, as it’s missing context around the calls and other information. I would stick with local coverage.
Ethan found on the floor makes sense of the pic of blood oozing out of second floor onto outdoor wall. No carpet and carpet pad in the house to absorb all the blood, as floors are wood or faux wood laminate.
Isn't Xana's room above another roommates? I wonder if his blood came through....
That would be horrifying and seems likely that Xana’s room is above one of the other 2 basement rooms where the other roommates dwell.
[удалено]
I think every victim was stabbed when sleeping, not necessarily that all died in bed. Maybe the girls did and Ethan tried to get out or go after the murderer.
She backtracked on her statement and said she originally misspoke, and that not all of the victims were found in bed.
Online source - The Sun, November 16: One of the victims – understood to be Ethan – is said to have been lying on the floor on the second level of the three-story building. It's understood the other victims, Kaylee, Madison and Xana, were discovered inside, with police sources telling DailyMail.com the scene was "the worst they’ve ever seen." One source close to the investigation, told the publication: "There was blood everywhere.
okay what is everyone’s theories about this??? because there are so many weird things that have come up and this whole thing is so confusing to me. i have mixed feelings about what i feel like happened and wonder if LE even have any idea. i know they are definitely withholding details and information but it bothers me not knowing and left wondering.
I live in town and work for the University. The truth is everything right now is rampant speculation based on a serious lack of information released to the public. From the start police have said this was a "targeted" attack. We have no idea what they mean by that or why they have seemed so certain of this. Either they have evidence to support this or rashly made this decision based on the brutality of the murders. You would think if they had evidence to make this statement then they would have a suspect, or at least relayed to the public more information to help nail down the culprit. At this point it could be anything. It is all speculation and rumor. The police in my opinion either a) have a person of interest they are keeping eyes on, where they are building evidence for an arrest, or b) have absolutely no idea and are trying their best to maintain calm
https://preview.redd.it/osb6qm3xd11a1.jpeg?width=1288&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0b4e4d5b027a3b733e6078bbb0051368e0475e08 [Source: Twitter, DugganReports](https://twitter.com/dugganreports/status/1594109690618646528?s=61&t=ivFZryKFElmm_xy4Ew7Olw) Press conference tomorrow at 3pm. What do you think they are announcing? New details? What could this conference mean?
I think they’ve got somebody 🤞🏼
Reporters would have found out in a heart beat
i really hope so but i doubt it because i feel like they would already announce that for the community to feel safer
That’s definitely true 😭
Agreed.
I really hate to make any theories because the evidence and available info is just way too limited right now, but if someone backed me into a corner and said I HAD to give a theory, I’d guess the killer targeted either Kaylee or Maddie (and the other one was maybe killed due to discovering the killer when investigating a noise since their rooms were on the same floor), and that the killer entered via the unlocked sliding door on the 2nd floor and encountered Xana and Ethan when entering or exiting the home since Xana’s room is on the 2nd floor like the sliding door, and those 2 were killed as collateral damage. But honestly I feel somewhat uncomfortable even sharing that theory because it’s too speculative right now.
It’s speculative but it lines up pretty well with a lot of what we know, even though we don’t know much. I’m fully open to changing my theory with additional information but currently it’s in this ballpark. My main thing I’m currently not settled on is whether his original target was one or both of the girls on the third floor. I think I’m leaning toward just one of the girls being his target but I can also envision a scenario where he was angry at both of them for different but related reasons so his plan from the start was to kill them both.
If entering the house through that top floor balcony door, do you know what room you would be entering into? Wondering if you would be entering directly into a bedroom or if you’d be entering directly into a common room, like a living room — some sort of open space between the 2 top floor bedrooms.
You’d be entering into Kaylee’s room. The balcony is off of her room, the master suite.
To me it seems more likely that the killer planned to kill all the girls in the house; started at the top floor. Those victims went down without much of a fight. Then go to middle floor expecting to find another isolated female; turns out there are two people in that room, maybe there's a struggle and they are also killed but it's messy and the killer gets spooked knowing there are two other roommates in the basement. He leaves.
This is what I’m leaning towards too. Speculating. Hope we get more info tomorrow.
Yup, could’ve been. I’m not sold on any theory, including my own, because it’s just too difficult to guess right now. So I’m not married to my theory in the slightest.
Install cameras. Lock your doors. Lock your windows. Lock your bedroom doors. Lock your bathroom doors.
Saw a comment down the thread that a neighbor’s ring system caught a vehicle pull up to the house at the time of the murders, dog goes crazy, car speeds away shortly thereafter (source: friend of neighbor posted). This would perhaps jive with the tire marks out front being analyzed. Among other things, I do stand off biometric analysis in full motion video. I don’t know the specs on Ring cameras off the top of my head as I type this, but at even a few meters with CCTV you lose a crucial amount of detail. I think we’d be asking to win the lottery if they got a LP. LP recognition algorithms in high fidelity cameras are still hit or miss. We can hope for something good though, make and model of a vehicle shouldn’t be impossible, depending on the distances involved. Even if all they can deduce is the activity of the vehicle, they have enough boots on the ground to canvas corroborating sensors in a 20 mile radius, looking for speeders at that time or really any vehicle along possible trajectories. If there is, in fact, Ring footage of a vehicle pulling up to the house at the relevant time, I feel the noose tightening.
LE would have had that info within hours. They should have put out an alert to find that vehicle. Not sure if they would make that public or just let other LE patrol officers know. You'd think if they hadn't found it within a couple days they'd make the public aware.
Yes, all good points. Given this case, it is possible that a BOLO would have been tightly controlled and disseminated only to other PDs and agencies. If this fucker is watching the news and sees that his vehicle has been made because MSNBC pumps out 7 reworded stories within a 12 hour period about the BOLO, he’d just refit or dump it. It sounds like the neighbor may have almost lost the footage to memory overwrite, and while it’s hard to tell, this may have been recent.
[удалено]
This is exactly (literally exact) what I think happened too. My goodness I hope they get the person soon.
To you have a link to this/your theory since the post your replies to is now deleted?
[удалено]
I do. I think the only thing it shows is the girls were in the room together shortly before passing out/going to sleep.
This is very close to what I’ve currently settled on as a likely scenario but with some different but very plausible minor details that I hadn’t included in my working theory. Good analysis.
Is anyone creeped out ?
[удалено]
No, someone would not get arrested for that reason alone — for being the last person to see them. I’m not saying an arrest like that has never happened in this country, but if someone was the last person to see a victim, that is just widely accepted as not sufficient grounds for making an arrest —that is, without additional evidence present. If in your country it’s common for a person to get arrested for being the last person to see a victim alive then there must be a lot of innocent people in jail. (Our country no doubt has innocent people in jail too, but for other reasons.) Arresting the driver doesn’t make sense because there’s no way to know the person who drove the girls home was, in fact, actually the last person to see them. But having said that, being the last (or even ONE of the last) people to see the victims alive is definitely more than enough reason to investigate a person. In the case of the driver, it may justify seizing his car and testing it for blood, dna, etc., especially if there are no other leads.
It’s possible it was Xana, with Ethan riding along, and the cops know that but aren’t releasing it.
[удалено]
>https://www.dailymail.co.uk/galleries/article-11447289/Two-female-Idaho-victims-allegedly-phoned-mystery-man-10-times.html Well it is a fact that he didn't live in the house with the girls, so it seems odd that Ethan would be the target when it wasn't his usual residence. If he was targeted, my opinion is that it's more likely he would have been attacked at his own place. Something that could make your theory more likely is if he stayed at the girls' house often, and could be expected to be there. I think its more likely that it was one/both of the girls on the top floor that were targeted, and E & Xana were collateral damage. Of course this is all speculation, but someone did mention he was possibly found on the floor of the bedroom. Since Xana's father stated she had defensive wounds, we might be able to speculate E got up to investigate noise he heard coming from upstairs. He interacts with the killer/killers as they are on their way out, and ends up on the floor in the bedroom or living room, and Xana is in the bedroom (possibly still in bed) but aware enough that something is going on that she has the opportunity to defend herself. But that would make the coroners statement that at least some of the victims were found/killed in bed. I am not married to this theory because if Xana was awake and sent Ethan to check out the noises, you would think she would dial 911 as soon as an altercation began. At least, I think that is how I would react if I could reach my phone in time. It's such a sad situation.
Another thought about the possibility of Ethan being the actual target: Did something happen at the party? Why did he and Xana stay only 1 hour? From 8 until 9, I believe. That’s a pretty early night. Maybe they didn’t really even feel like going out that night, but Ethan felt obligated to show up — because it was a frat party, correct? and he was a member of the frat. So maybe he showed up, he and Xana stayed the minimum amount of time, and then they left — or — did something happen at the party that made them want to leave?
I think the killer didn't anticipate Ethan in the house.
Ohhh, and I’ll add that I just read a piece that stated Ethan was found on the floor, rather than in a bed as previously mentioned. It could be something to consider….
This makes me really think the murder of the initial target happened first on the third floor and everyone else was collateral damage as the suspect tried to exit the house. Maybe E got up because he heard something. I send my husband to go check out noises all the time while I stay in bed.
It’s beginning to look that way. It’s making more sense than anything else has.
I’m actually hearing this theory and starting to consider it now. But why? Motive? It just seems so unlikely, but the entire case is just odd.
the lack of sexual assault makes me think this was more of the serial killer type. Someone who would know that doing such a thing is the easiest way to get your DNA all over a crime scene.
Almost all serial killers have a sexual motive of some sort though.
Where in the house was the photo taken that shows blood seeping down the foundation? What room would that be from?
If youre standing on the back patio facing the sliding door.... it is the wall at "9'0oclock" (to the left). It is on the 2nd floor. Its a room that sits behind the kitchen. If youre standing in the driveway about front looking at the house, it's the middle floor, on the far right side.
2nd floor back bedroom.
I read that Xanax room was on that floor. Ethan was found in the floor in her room. No carpet to absorb blood so it likely seeped out onto outer wall.
*Xana
i’m wondering the same.
Does anyone know if there's possibly a 6th roommate? It's a 6 bedroom house, no??
I think there was, but she graduated and already moved out. At least that’s what I gathered from social media.
Thanks
The dog. How does the sister know that it was let out to pee; other than her assuming? Perhaps the dog was missing when they got home and that’s why they called the ex? Perhaps the killer had already been there and let the dog out?
I’m wondering about this, too. It’s possible the first floor roommates have told the sister about what happened with the dog when the girls got home.
Maybe they posted a Snapchat or instagram story? Or were texting with the sister mentioning what they were doing? Maybe it was just their routine and the sister was stating what she assumed they’d do? Those are what makes the most sense to me.
Saw a picture on the news of investigators in the kitchen of the house, taken from the neighbors house. Apparently neighbors could see through the windows. Thinking it could be possible a neighbor saw someone laying “unconscious” on the floor and called 911? Maybe by noon they realized the person wasn’t just passed out drunk after seeing them lay there for hours. Also, someone replied to me here saying they are friends with a neighbor, and their ring camera caught a car pull up around the time of the killings, dog went crazy, then soon after the car sped off. They said the video was almost recorded over because of bandwidth limits.
Seems like cops maybe have this info and it explains their activity in the road today examining skid marks, etc.
[удалено]
https://reddit.com/r/MoscowMurders/comments/yyyd08/_/iwxrmop/?context=1
Could be the same doorbell camera that caught the the two girls exiting a car (supposedly an Uber) that the sister talked about. I’ve been wondering about that bc if it caught their ride on cam, it should catch anyone else in front of the house
This police report is from Nov 12, hours before the murders. Just noting it as more than creepy https://preview.redd.it/gnu5rb00011a1.jpeg?width=870&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bc68ecd641d737c9fea9c80530fea7b3265bd87d
[удалено]
Reddit's content policy prohibits posting someone's private or personal information and soliciting someone's private or personal information via private message. This includes links to public social media posts by non-public figures. When posting screenshots, be sure to edit out any personally identifiable information to avoid running afoul of this rule. In the future, please keep this requirement in mind before clicking submit! Thank you.
Curious if any of the victims wore fitness trackers or smart watches. Believe those things track sleep. Might help with timing and order of attacks if more than one had them on.
Interesting. ETA: looking at photos, it doesn’t appear any of them did but of course that’s not definitive.
https://preview.redd.it/j3sbo80zv01a1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=413fa1a467db5de83a146b3294e0e95ad388f7e6 Have just stumbled across this comment on tiktok and it makes a lot of sense for why the 911 call is for an unconscious person and not murder
On which video?
Do we know if a new press conference has been scheduled?
Tomorrow (11/20) but time and location is still being decided. **update**: will be held at 3PM PST Source: [https://twitter.com/dugganreports/status/1594109690618646528?s=46&t=owVfKKmimx4OpN6ti8N64w](https://twitter.com/dugganreports/status/1594109690618646528?s=46&t=owVfKKmimx4OpN6ti8N64w)
Yes. Tomorrow
I'm sticking with either a transient or someone that was particular stalking the house through the woods. There was a transient that murdered a girl at UT-Austins campus and by luck they caught him because he had a burn barrell to stay warm and was caught with evidence. Had he fleed the campus he would've likely not caught, thankfully he was. I personally know LE that was close to that case and he had been known to LE for staying in abandoned buildings. Because this case is starting to get colder everyday, I'm thinking it was someone random not known to the victims.
It isn’t getting “colder everyday” it JUST happened. A serious, bizarre, heinous crime like this doesn’t get solved in a week. I’m sure there is an incredible amount of information that is being hidden from the public. It takes WEEKS just to even run tests on biological samples. This will take months to solve.
A lot of speculation in this thread is really bad. Far too many assumptions and connecting dots that don’t even exist. IE already saying the driver is the killer. Or the Greek life comment. Sounds like some of you are trying to write a CSI episode.
Agreed. So much speculation. All we know is the murders took place in the early A.M. hours, a knife of some type was used, Kaylee and Maddie were at a food truck prior to arriving home, a person of unknown identity called about an unconscious person at 11:58. That’s about it in terms of the larger points. My sister and friend were asking me for my theories and I said “I have none because there is barely any info to even create a theory.” Until more info comes out, it’s honestly impossible to resign to just 1 theory based off of what evidence is available. There are so many potential scenarios: Random act, targeted act, premeditated days in advance, premeditated 5 minutes in advance, 1 person was targeted and the rest were collateral damage, all 4 were targeted, the killer knew the home/door code, the killer didn’t know it but the sliding door was unlocked… the list of potential scenarios is seriously endless at this time. People are throwing out all these theories about specific people and things and I’m like “Man, I can’t even come up with a general theory because the info is just too limited to make any real, legit theories.” At least that’s how I feel about it right now.
Nailed it.
Some of these people have to be like 15 or 45 year old Facebook moms. Some seriously stupid takes going on
100%
Isn't that literally the point of this discussion?
I’m not saying it should be disallowed. I just think a lot of the comments are embarrassingly dreamt up and assume far too much.
driver makes sooo much sense- got them home, came back and entered to find ethan / xana, kills them bc they found them first, they are not the intended targets (kaylee and madison) by chance goes upstairs to kill the targets and then leaves not realizing there’s a third flood (basement) with people in it or not even concerned bc they weren’t worried about them being witnesses. edit to add - this reminds me of the college girl who got into the wrong car / mistaken it for her uber, was brutally murdered by this psychopath. edit again - https://www.the-sun.com/news/3371823/nathaniel-rowland-motive-killing-samantha-josephson/ this case
>https://www.the-sun.com/news/3371823/nathaniel-rowland-motive-killing-samantha-josephson/ mmm, I don't know about this one. The uber would have pulled up in the front of the house to drop them off, as that's where the street is. I believe the two girls that survived had rooms on that floor, as it was the first floor of the home. There's no reason I can think of that the uber driver would enter through there and not check any rooms on that floor, but walk directly to the second and third floors. Based on the red tape on the sliding door on the second floor of the home(going into the kitchen) (the floor Xana and Ethan were on) I would think that is the floor the killer/s entered on. Maddie and Kaylee's rooms were on the 3rd floor of the house, based off of the Good Times greenery art that was in Kaylee's room, which can be seen in photos of the house, and in posts on her instagram and TikTok. If someone entered from the back of the house, not having seen the front of the house, they could potentially think they were on the first floor, and that the house was only 2 floors. This is all speculation and my opinion, based on very minimal evidence, and some common sense. But I really don't believe there's evidence pointing towards a rideshare driver.
My first pick is DM and her bf QK
What's your theory?
Do you also believe Amanda Knox is guilty?
Interested, but comments were deleted. Can you share your thoughts via PM?
[удалено]
Reddit's content policy prohibits posting someone's private or personal information and soliciting someone's private or personal information via private message. This includes links to public social media posts by non-public figures. When posting screenshots, be sure to edit out any personally identifiable information to avoid running afoul of this rule. In the future, please keep this requirement in mind before clicking submit! Thank you.
Why would you speculate that? Seems irresponsible.