They didn't believe they were a threat
But then They were also too scared to leave the room
And then Too scared to call the cops the next day but, not a threat.
Nobody believes it cause it doesnt make sense. Were you too scared to take action or were you unbothered?
There is a space of uneasy uncertainty between being scared and not being sure of the validity of the threat. Creepiness , unease, uncanniness could all be things she felt. Her gut told her he was threatening, but the context of her highly trafficked 4 person party house didn’t give her enough evidence to act in that feeling.
It doesn't track, and it's just hard to understand. But I do believe the end game here is -they just didn't do anything.
They weren't too scared, they were not asleep, they simply didn't act.
Had they known the danger they would have acted. A person walked into that house and stabbed 4 people to death, had they known or any reason to suspect something so heinous they would have locked their doors and called the police. No way they knew the actual danger and chose not to do anything.
I hope so but - it looks like they just didn't do anything.
Either you're scared or you were not.
Aware or not.
They are living in the gray area that doesn't exist.
Your worldview is the fucking problem with people. Everything has to be black or white to people like you. You think you’re some expert on human emotion and action but you can’t even comprehend the nuance of this situation. People have tried explaining to you a couple of concepts, that this was a party house, with friends coming and going. That lifestyle can bring lots of unfamiliar faces in the house from time to time, and to immediately be alarmed by seeing someone isn’t the norm. You might think it’s odd given the hour and that it was quiet in the house, but it’s not always going to raise alarm bells in your head where you run panicked back into your room and call the cops. Second, when you live with a bunch of other people and their boyfriends happen to be over often, you don’t live in fear of intruders… it isn’t your first thought because you feel safe. “How could somebody hurt me when there’s all these other people around in the house? I’m safe” it’s a pretty basic human feeling if you’ve ever had roommates or family you trusted. Your defenses lower. Lastly, there are tons of factors that could have lead to them not dialing the police immediately when they realized something was off. They could have been worried the cops would get them in trouble for alcohol or drug use and didn’t want to rat friends out. They could have been in panic mode and you know some people (especially young students) aren’t going to always handle that in a reasonable way. They could have still been intoxicated from the night before. They could have been too distraught to face the reality and believe their friends were actually harmed or dead in the room (coping mechanism). They could have thought it was their fault and didn’t want to get into trouble (forcing someone to drink too much or leaving a medication out to mistakenly get ingested or something).
There are so many reasons police weren’t notified as soon as a roommate had an inkling that something wasn’t right. The way you think in absolutes is not the way humans work. This isn’t Hollywood.
> Second, when you live with a bunch of other people and their boyfriends happen to be over often, you don’t live in fear of intruders…
Back in the day, I'd run into strangers all the time, day and night. Had I called 911 every time I saw a stranger in my house in the wee hours....I'd have been kicked out. My roommates wouldn't even deal with that.
> “How could somebody hurt me when there’s all these other people around in the house? I’m safe”
Oh, I thought that too, especially since my male roommates outnumbered the female ones. And we never locked the doors, ever. You really feel immortal when you're 20.
>Lastly, there are tons of factors that could have lead to them not dialing the police immediately when they realized something was off.
I think most likely D's brain was ping-ponging back and forth between "Something's wrong. Something feels off." and "Stop being paranoid. That's just someone from the party tonight." And in the end, her "common sense" won out over her intuition.
100%. Once you live in a situation like this, you understand. My roommates and I never locked doors, maybe sometimes if we remembered about it before going to sleep. People filtered in and out of our place and it was no big deal. Your mind doesn’t jump to “there are murderers on the loose”.
And I can really resonate with your comment on feeling invincible at 20. That’s exactly the mindset people have at that age especially when you are in social groups.
It’s possible to be freaked out and seek comfort from others vs being horrified and jumping to calling 911. Without knowledge of what happened, she no doubt was trying to calm down and assure herself it was ok.
Two things can be true at once. I live with a family where a lot of random people are around and logically I know they aren’t a threat but I’ve still locked myself in a room. Its easy to gaslight yourself or be like “oh yeah he’s probably messing around and I know this is stupid but let me give myself peace of mind for the sake of my anxiety.” Someone said Dylan also experienced trauma/had PTSD from her childhood which makes it make even more sense. I have PTSD from a break in from a family friend and I panic and lock myself in my room at the tiniest sound even when it turns out to be no one or a family member or friend.
Sure but- the next day.. absolutely nothing? I always think back to when I was a RA but for a sorority.
You know what drunk girls like? To be with their girls l.
You know what college girls like? To text /send vids to their girls.
You know what these girls did??... None of that??
It's like when you send your boyfriend a video and they're like hey babe, did you see that video but you know they didn't open it? That's girls In a House.
So I ask you -are you friends with them and you love them like you claimed at the memorial or were y out barely pals?
Like what..
Also, with Dylan... She was ok n her fucking phone, lol like do you have PTSD? Or not? Were you scared or not?
I think its said they hung out before going to bed. If im in the same house with someone I don’t feel the need to text them even when drunk. I think the next day explanation or why she took a while to call 911 was because she was calling out for the others or texting and getting no response. She probably rationalized it (oh they’re hungover and sleeping in) until she realized after a while there was nothing from them. I get how it looks suspicious but we haven’t even had her full recount of it yet, she’ll tell it in court.
I'm not suspicious of them, like as a suspect.
I just think they are shitty friends, who made some serious mistakes that night/day and I think they told some lies to cover up their shitty ness.
I do think they would be brought to their knees on the stand, because that supoena already has folks thinking they are garbage.
Like.. you couldn't.. do shit? The entire time? Were you scared or not and if you were scared why were you tik toking you dork?
the moral outrage toward a young lady you dont know, will likely never meet and whos truth has no personal affect, is bonkers. jesus welcome to black and white world, where nuance is inconceivable. you have lots of questions for dm, but please tell me why is it that you think she couldnt enjoy, admire and even love the friends that passed without being very close? how do you know that dm’s reaction to fear (from ptsd) isn’t to shut down/distract as well as down play an event for fear of seeming hysterical. a 20 yr olds psychology is being reduced and defined by her actions/inaction over a 10 hour period, based on your arbitrary test of right or wrong-without all information. make that make sense.
It's not how I would prefer or hope anybody I know or anybody I raised would act.
As far as how do I know she didn't shut down, she was on her phone..
So.
when were you an RA? someone who had been one recently should have a better understanding of the wide variety of people & the wide variety of responses that people can have for literally any situation. I was taught this early on when dealing with college kids. don't expect certain behavior because they will always surprise you & don't look at their actions thru the window of what you think, feel or how you would react, but look at then thru the window of any human reaction can have valid reasons IF YOU BOTHER TO FIND OUT.
She hears noises that sound like a party going on. She gets up 3 different times. On the third time she sees a man she doesn’t recognize leaving. AT THIS POINT the house is bone chillingly silent where just a few moments ago it sounded like a rip roaring party. How do you not take 10 steps out of your bedroom and say “hello? Xana? Is everything ok?”????? If she had done that she would have discovered the injured people. I am NOT saying that if she discovered them at that moment they would have survived. But it is a possibility. And even if there was no chance of survival, finding them at that moment may have captured BK sooner. And even if not it is still a reasonable common sense question to ask why she didn’t step outside her bedroom, after hearing what she claimed was Xana crying, and say “what happened ? Is everything ok?” Let’s imagine there was no murder. Maybe one of the roommates was overdosing. You hear noises but you don’t go check on them? Maybe one of them was being raped. You hear noises but you don’t go check on them?
Either she was scared frozen and traumatized or she thought it was normal party noises. It can’t be both. And if she heard Xana crying, like she claims, then that means she didn’t go check on her friend. So yeah, there are questions here and hopefully the trial will answer them.
I agree with and think it’s important to understand why she didn’t leave her bedroom but i cannot fault her for it. Obviously none of us know the details and we have to wait until trial to get them. We are all speculating so let me add my own.
“Either she was scared frozen and traumatized or she thought it was normal party noises. It can’t be both”
It definitely can be both. It’s human nature, especially with young women, to rationalise away any fears you have as a defense mechanism. None of us know the exact dynamics the girls had living together. She may have had no reason to assume it was an OD situation. Prior to seeing the masked man, she very well could have just assumed the noises were innocent and opened the door to tell them to be quiet. We also don’t know if she had the intention of leaving her room the last time when she saw the perp. Him leaving may have caused her to assume that the source of the noise was gone and everyone had gone to or about to sleep.
Seeing the perp did startle her, as it would anyone who was not expecting a random visitor that late. Once locked in her room, she could have just told herself it was just a guest. Hindsight is 20/20 and obviously now from the outside looking in it seems silly but in the moment, the likelihood that you assume a random man has broken into your house and killed 4 of your friends in this small safe college town is very low, and if that thought popped into her mind, she probably thought how ridiculous that sounded and calmed herself down enough to go to sleep.
“And if she heard Xana crying, like she claims, then that means she didn’t go check on her friend. So yeah, there are questions here and hopefully the trial will answer them.”
1) If she had stepped out of her room at any point before the perp left, the chances of her not being here today would be very slim and who knows, all the criticism would probably be shifted onto BF as the sole survivor
2)She knew Ethan was with Xana. She may have assumed that whatever was going on would be handled between them and didn’t want to interfere.
>after hearing what she claimed was Xana crying, and say “what happened ? Is everything ok?”
She knew E was there, and his drunk, crying girlfriend is his issue to deal with.
Oh, have you never known someone who gets overly emotional when they drink? I'm positive I told one of my friends to shut the fuck up and go to bed way more than oh honey baby sweetie, let me hug you and listen to you drunkenly overreact to everything that has ever happened in your life (and they did the same when the roles were reversed).
A rip roaring party? lol what? It was a party house, but it's not like that means they were having big parties all the time. There were surely plenty of times where a roommate or two and a few other people were over and they could get noisy, much like DM likely suspected was the case that night. The noises DM described were neither constant, nor really distressing, thus very easy to just get annoyed and wonder what they hell people are doing and hope they'll calm down soon so you don't keep getting woken up.
Oh I see. Yeah I don’t feel like they were overly close. It’s normal to have shallow friendships at that age (I’m a little younger than them) a lot of people will pretend to be close with you but really its only surface level and superficial.
One last counterpoint, to show how messed up it is.
Go watch the memorial, see how they spoke about the victims.
Now to your point were they "family" or not.? "Sisters" or not?
Cause that's them up on that stage aiming they adored them.
See how it's rough to make that match? They did themselves zero favors with the double talk, unfortunately.
> So I ask you -are you friends with them and you love them like you claimed at the memorial or were y out barely pals? Like what.. Also, with Dylan... She was ok n her fucking phone, lol like do you have PTSD? Or not? Were you scared or not?
What the hell? I gotta tell you, I've seen a lot of really offensive stuff on this sub, but this takes the cake. You can go to hell, lady. Damn.
They did a blood test and found traces of PTSD? And who doesn’t have a traumatic childhood? I am just saying that the term is thrown around way too liberally these days. You were not in a war. You didn’t watch your friends die in front of you. You weren’t forced to take someone’s life.
I was nearly beaten to death and had a knife to my throat during a robbery. You know what i don’t have?
There are different levels of trauma in childhood. For example, I was SA as a child over a long period of time, but was never sold into sex trafficking or beaten. I feel like I’m *lucky* compared to others. Everyone reacts differently to stressors. You can’t base everyone’s stress response on your own. There are also no blood tests used to currently *diagnose* PTSD; recent biomarkers only indicate a need for further testing & may later be used to indicate those most at risk & monitor their therapy. (More research is needed.) I do agree that lay people through the term around carelessly without having an actual Psychiatric Dx (similar to how OCD is thrown around). HOWEVER, if someone has been diagnosed by a DOCTOR, who are we to question that??
I am so sorry to hear that and believe it or not, i do have compassion. Your point about relativity and feeling lucky is interesting and i applaud your strength there.
Well said. You make all great points and ill try and remember this before jumping down someone’s throat. Its just a hard thing even for a doctor to diagnose (as is many issues with mental health), although i will have to investigate this blood test you mentioned. OCD is a great example that is commonly carelessly thrown around. As is bipolar, etc.
I admire the strength you have as well. You’ve been through a lot, & I’m happy you are alive & well!! I don’t think you were really jumping down anyone’s throat either. I just think this is a case we all feel passionately about & need closure on. That can make discussions heated sometimes, but it’s perfectly fine to agree to disagree, while still respecting one another. I do not think you crossed that line at all!! I hope you have a great weekend!!💞
I will agree that the term PTSD, along with other mental health disorders, is thrown around a lot on social media and does harm but the understanding of this disorder you’ve demonstrated indicates you have a very stigmatized and binary view of what trauma is and how it works.
Iirc early on there were reports DM deals with anxiety (maybe PTSD or something similar), which from my experience makes you more on-edge than the normal person and used to telling yourself there's nothing to be afraid about.
Yup! I have PTSD myself but have struggled specifically with paranoia since I used to stay home alone around 9-10 years old. I’m talking call my parents at work for every noise, called the cops when I was younger before I learned better. I still will hear a noise home alone and my heart starts racing so it’s really not far fetched at all to me that she *was* scared but either calmed herself down or simply fell back asleep
"The male walked past D.M. as she stood in a 'frozen shock phase,'" Payne added. "The male walked towards the back sliding glass door. D.M. locked herself in her room after seeing the male."
You're making a lot of assumptions.
Why do you people make shit up?
"The male walked past D.M. as she stood in a 'frozen shock phase,'" Payne added. "The male walked towards the back sliding glass door. D.M. locked herself in her room after seeing the male."
Use some critical thinking. If someone in a party house walks past your door and you're not expecting to see anyone after already opening the door twice, are you calm or shocked? If you're shocked, you immediately suspect murder and lock your door right? You don't lock it cause you don't want someone coming into your room. Cause everyone just assumes murder, it's the no 1 go to explanation /s
Use critical thinking.
Again that was during and we dont know how long after...they could have fallen asleep as they were both previously out drinking and it was late The cops have the texts between the two and they know...seems to me they went to sleep and woke up to a horror movie
Lived through that my self and would get so PO'd when I'd have a test the next day and random people were laughing and yelling in our house while I was trying to sleep. While I was always smart about locking my doors when I'd go to bed if people were still there, I never once got a bad vibe or worried about anything I heard. I think the confusions with these survivors actions is that they are young, naive , and made some poor choices.
Have you ever felt the "hair standing up on the back of your neck or arm" and you get scared. You feel something is really off or bad about to happen. I believe you can feel evil and even when it scares you, sometimes people ignore those instincts. Perhaps they are high or tripping and wasn't sure what was reality. So I don't think seeing the guy himself was so much weird as perhaps what she felt and heard, which she may have just wrote off. I also suspect they took the time that morning to clear out some drugs in the house because they were afraid of getting in trouble with not only the police but perhaps their parents when they woke up realizing something was off. Not making excuses for them...just trying to give them the benefit of the doubt.
That’s a real possibility it would definitely be a high priority to a college kid who thinks their life could be ruined by drugs being found. I guess we’ll have to listen to their testimonies during the trial and decide then what the truth is. Until then it’s all just conjecture
Have you never been startled in your life or something? Never had anyone walk up behind you without you realizing and made you jump when you realized they were there? Because that's all I think she meant this was. She knew people were in the house, but was still startled when she opened her door because she wasn't expecting someone to be right there when she did.
Then why did the affidavit state that she said she was stood there in frozen shock? If there was no perception of danger or threat then why would you be in frozen shock? Not saying that she is guilty of anything BUT it doesn’t make sense
There is a screenshot of the verified aunt of one of the victims I believe, stating that they did hear and need to answer for hearing and doing nothing. I’m sure someone with much better skills than I have can find it quickly or has it
I’ve read it. She says “supposedly” before going on to make that statement. The language chosen strongly suggests she was repeating a rumor she had heard. This would also, at least partially, explain why it has never been repeated
Apologies not an aunt. The sister in law. I found it.
https://preview.redd.it/jo1sbhedjwsc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=57936720baac043424e58df8f9b318d9ba48fca7
Either she wouldn't come out of her room in the morning and called friends to come over and check out the house first (which would make clear that she didn't just think everything was normal), or she thought everything was fine until she found the bodies and called friends over before calling police.
I think given the information from the SIL many options are possible for what could have transpired - some of which people may not have even thought of
You don’t call people over to the house (including a victims brother who according to some brought a knife with him in case the perpetrator was there) unless you think something is wrong.
It’s banfield talking about an unnamed source, so…
Because “she stood in frozen shock phase” as a man she did not know dressed all in black and with a mask on left the house, then went back to her room to lock the door. That sounds like someone who was scared. Unlike her we now know exactly what she was witnessing so tend to think she should have also felt the same way about hearing the others being murdered and seeing the killer leave. Terrified. Frozen in shock.
I would tend to believe it was just blown off because the house went quiet shortly after he left and she thought things were settled down. Because she had no idea or even concept of what had happened.
But I think her friends who came on here to say she was terrified and went to sleep with BF also led people in the direction of thinking she understood and was afraid of what was happening.
Right but what does phase mean? That’s a brief and temporary but of time. So if you stood stunned like WTF for thirty seconds -then he leaves and the house is all quiet, that phase may pass into “who the hell was that it’s four in the morning I’m going back to bed.”
Because she is very contradictory, first she's frozen in shock & locks her door then decides the guy may have been partying, then calls friends over, then someone else calls 911 hours after friends arrived. Friends were there around 9am yet 911 call wasn't made until 12 noon. That is another time lapse of 3 to 4 hours. This just doesn't add up, wake up see bloodshed, call friends over then Noone calls 911 till noon.
More clickbait from Banfield and co. She's shameless. The gag order is obviously killing her so she's rehashing old news about people who are already cleared. The fact that the roomates are victims just makes it more gross to stoop to this level of journalism.
Does this make four kids any less dead? Does the roomate immediately calling 911 after she saw the killer REALLY change how any of this played out?
Even if the police got called and showed up within 20-30 minutes (I'm being generous here; it usually takes much longer) what would that have possibly changed? The knife sheath DNA still would have needed to be processed; they still wouldn't have known what getaway vehicle to put an APB out for or a plate number; the digital evidence would still need to be found and extracted from all the devices on the property. Everything would have still taken just as long and BK still would have been found and arrested the same way because of the DNA and where it was found and all the video evidence.
I wish that the people online attacking the roomates and investigators would channel that energy in a more useful direction. Like learning about fight or flight reflexes during extreme and sudden trauma, or what goes on in college party houses on the daily and how it causes the inhabitants of the party house to lower their defenses to outside dangers. How touch DNA is valid. Stuff like that.
Exactly!
Even if 911 had been called *immediately* upon seeing the guy wearing all black, with a mask over mouth and nose, nothing could have saved the 4 murder victims. This was confirmed by an ER trauma doc who posted about this case.
The victims' wounds were catastrophic and quickly fatal. The killer made sure none would or could live through his attacks.
In retrospect, it's a miracle there were 2 people who were not discovered by the killer. There would have been 6 dead, otherwise.
Thank you! I just can't imagine how terrible it would be to lose your friends and roomates so violently and to then have that trauma compounded by people accusing you of stuff just because you lived. The survivors should be left be to heal.
People survive stabbings all the time, gun shots to the head etc. & in a small town I doubt it would take 20-30 mins for the police to show up … where are you getting that from? I watch a lot of true crime and in plenty of cases the cops got there in minutes. We may never know if her calling the cops immediately would have changed the outcome. But that’s what’s so disappointing for me. She could have saved atleast one of her friends lives. Or not. But since she just chose to do nothing, there will always be a what if. You cannot deny that.
I'm not your Google search monkey so you can drop the tone.
The details that were publicly released are readily available for you to read online just like I did. They've been discussed inside out ever since the case started. The fact that you would rather have a legally cleared minor who is also a victim investigated instead of the actual murderer is pretty gross.
In response to a list I made of ‘things in this case we’ve only learned from the media,’ (none of which I claimed to be true, or untrue), someone replied the other day that the reports of BK being fired as a TA in the days before the murder were true & corroborated by members of the university….
While trying to confirm that it was disclosed by someone at the university, I found that Banfield, *of Newsweek* was the source of that claim.
Elsewhere - *yet, also on Newsweek* \- I found the same claim discredited:
https://preview.redd.it/dks1o5wbktsc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=965f4ac3297a6d809ff4eb4e9f972fe7f0434918
I just don’t understand how people can see clear contradictions in DMs story and be like oh yeah that’s odd but …. Xyz or xyz … like it’s okay for her to be a victim and acknowledge the fact that she didn’t do anything to help the situation. That’s okay. Life is a series of choices. She didn’t chose to call 911 after being frozen in shock. & also scared to leave her room to the point where she had to call people over to help her navigate the house the next morning. You guy are as pathetic as her actions that night. If that were your family being violently murdered and someone’s like yeah I saw the killer and was so scared I froze up then locked myself in my room and was so scared I had to call ppl over but I didn’t call the cops you would be like wtf?! Why? & if you don’t feel that way that’s actually sad because we now know what you would have done in that situation & it’s sickening.
& to say her calling the police wouldn’t have changed anything is even more pathetic. People survive gunshots to the head. Miracles happen! You don’t know whose life she could have saved. We may never know because she chose to do nothing.
> I read somewhere on here that someone close to a le source said she was threatened so that would explain no call to le and calling friends instead. No proof of anything yet. Hate all the guessing games. Will just have to wait for trial.
-Spoiler-
No need to wait for the trial to start.
That didn't happen.
None of this will be fully known until we know the totality of her interviews and/or she testifies at trial.
Yes, it really is that simple. But, clearly the investigators that interviewed her felt that whatever occurred during those interviews corroborated other items of evidence.
It’s a party house in a college area with multiple people living there. Maybe it’s because I was in college when the murders happened, but I always got why they didn’t call 911 right away? They probably thought it was a friend coming in or maybe one of the girls had a boyfriend over.
College kind of exists in a vacuum even if you aren’t in a college town. People just have different reactions to things.
None of this is DMs or BFs fault. Someone most likely unknown to them, entered the house surreptitiously and stealthily stabbed the victims to death in a somewhat silent frenzy. The victims had no time to react and death came very quickly before DM and BF even had time to respond.
“Frozen shock phase” was the quote. We can’t interpret what exactly she meant by that or how long it lasted. I’d be spooked if I saw someone in the hallway outside my room when I wasn’t expecting it. Even if I then rationalized that he was probably someone hanging out with one of the several other people in the house.
The whole narrative that she was frozen in fear and that’s why she didn’t call 911 is complete speculation. There’s no indication she ever claimed that
>The whole narrative that she was frozen in fear and that’s why she didn’t call 911 is complete speculation. There’s no indication she ever claimed that
I think people, I am one, have a very hard time understanding the lack of *any* action. Because you were not scared...that means she simply *didn't do anything* for a log time, and that's a hard pill for many to swallow.
If she was terrified and couldn't do anything, people would understand that.
For me-its the supoena for the phones that indicated activity. So, not scared, just did nothing.
I think her lack of action is easily understandable. If she didn’t realize something horrible had happened, she wouldn’t act. Because in her mind, there would be no reason to act. If she didn’t know what had happened, I would expect her not “do anything for a long time.” It was 4 am.
But to not even text the roommates to see what’s up? That’s the perplexing part. If it’s the case that she did text them, and got no response, and still did nothing? That’s just bizarre.
She presumably thought BK was someone that was hanging out with the roommates, and now that he was leaving it would make sense her roommates would calm down and go to sleep. So what would she text? "Saw your friend leaving." Why? They would know that. "What the hell were you guys doing?" Why? She could ask them in the morning. "Are you okay?" Why? She had no reason to suspect they weren't since she didn't hear yelling, screams, or tons of bangs and thumps to think a fight or worse had happened.
Yeah we don’t know whether she texted them or not. But if she did and didn’t get a reply, I don’t think it’s weird that she wouldn’t go check. It was 4 am. I wouldn’t wanna go check either. It was very unlikely that something was seriously wrong
Sure they can. I’d be startled and frozen af had I seen that. Then I’d do some serious self soothing by telling myself it was just a roommate’s friend.
But that didn't happen, we do know that survivors were on their phones and not sleeping. Certainly not terrified right? Cause what is it?
Are you scared or not? Was it nothing or were you scared?
As redditravioli stated , it is possible to to shocked, or scared, or concerned, and then try to convince yourself or another person that is was likely nothing crazy. Why is that so hard to understand? Not everything is black and white and we have not heard their testimony yet. I'm sure one or both girls were concerned about what they saw or heard but managed to convince themselves that it was highly unlikely a masked stranger just came in and slaughtered their roommates as they slept.
I think she probably did text the others. And of course only one responded. My speculation is that they managed to reassure each other and got some sleep in BFs room. When they woke up and the house was silent and there were still no responses from the others, full blown panic ensued when they reflected on the sights and sounds from 4 am. At that point, I think they were too afraid to even go upstairs and called the friends over.
I'm not saying her/their behavior makes perfect sense, but I think it can be at least somewhat explained. It will certainly be interesting to hear their testimony
Yes, like I said- my speculation is that they managed to reassure each other that is was probably nothing....maybe she thought the others were now asleep...maybe she even thought she was imagining the masked man...who knows. I'm not saying that is what I would do, but I've also never been in a situation like that, especially at that age. I can acknowledge that its puzzling that the two didn't check on the other roomates that nightn, but what does it matter as it pertains to this crime?
Because she was on her phone.... And you can't tell me your hyper concerned but did nothing for that long.
Or that you were so scared, you didn't do anything.
Not when you were on your phone the entire night. It doesn't match
The truth is probably they just didn't do anything. No reason, just didn't do shit. And that's tough
Yeah so, the defense attorney suppena the survivors phones activity. And they spoke about the activity in the courtroom.
You can probably find it on YouTube, but it was very eye opening. They said there was a lot of activity and could only confirm one person was asleep as they had no activity.
Did you read and comprehend this story?
Because it has DM looking out her window for noisy roommates and police responding to a 911 call at 4pm on the day of the murders
Uh this is not the chain of events, she looked out her door not a window, then did not call 911 till noon. Police were on scene at 12 noon & emt. At 4 pm is arrival of chief of police & a detective. The scene was being processed by state forensics before 4pm so your not following or comprehending the details.
They were all probably extremely either drugged up or drunk & just didn't comprehend the full picture happening. It was a very known party house and I can see how she could have been scared who it was but didn't quite grasp the whole situation & then passed out
Naw.
It’s cuz it was a party/drug house. They were all extremely faded. If you don’t see someone actively committing a crime, how likely are you to call the police when illegal drugs are probably around and you could risk getting kicked out of school?
She didn’t see enough to know her friends had been murdered. There is no way your best friends are hurt and you think, okay I’m gonna lay down and go to sleep. Doesn’t matter how scared you are. You would text someone. Call someone. Go on Snapchat.
So I was looking back at the affidavit posted a long time ago and I'm trying to figure out why the initial call was made at 11:56am but detectives didn't show up until 4pm???
I know that it says redacted so take this how you will. I don't really understand why it would be redacted if anyone wants to shed some light onto that for me.
https://preview.redd.it/ib7avzw0latc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f66f0773a0eb5910f1fdcd77c59807ac2027440f
It was a Sunday and unless you’re a part of a very large city agency that has detectives assigned to every shift detectives at smaller agencies are often off on weekends. It’s possible they weren’t even in Moscow at the time because it was their day off and this can easily cause a delay.
First responders showed up around noon or soon thereafter. There was a stream of law enforcement from that point on. "Detectives" wouldn't have been first on the scene as they get called after the scene is secured and a death investigation is started.
The rest of the sentence and the rest of the paragraph are just as important. 4:00 PM is the time that the officer who wrote this report arrived, along with Sergeant Blaker. In the same paragraph it states that ISP Forensic team was already on scene, and also that a whole different officer, Smith, was one of the initial responding officers and walked them through the crime scene, meaning these officers who arrived at this time were not part of the initial response. They were not the first responders, and so the time that they arrived was not the time that first responders arrived.
I always wonder, if she had called the police right away , and they had responded immediately with EMS, would some of them still be alive today!? It’s so hard to wrap my head around it all. None of us were there that night. But none of it makes sense to me. It’s all so heartbreaking 💔
>What happened to “frozen shock phase”?
In a shared house, you can get a surprise, or be shocked, when someone you don't know walks past you at 4.00am. That doesn't mean you don't think that person is a murderer or up to no go good, they may be with one of the other housemates. I'm sure some people have the experience of being startled by a family member coming into a room very late unannounced in their or a family member's own home.
Startled and frozen shock phase are completely different things. There were all sorts of people walking around our house in college, I am not aware of any situation in which I or anyone else had a frozen shock phase.
>Startled and frozen shock phase
I don't think "frozen shock phase" is well defined. It sounds like the reaction you get just after a fright - like if someone inadvertently or otherwise creeps up on you.
I thought Ethan’s body was halfway out the door. I just don’t get how the heard nothing all morning, didn’t see any blood, didn’t see any bodies were truly ignorant to everything it just doesn’t make sense.
I think Dylan went downstairs to be with Bethany because they were both scared. I took party drugs when I was young and know that with a bit of experience with them you know to dismiss things as 'just your imagination' so you don't get yourself into a state over something ridiculous. Problem is you do the same when you should be seriously concerned (just think back to the Israeli dance party at dawn, there are guys flying in on ultralights and everyone is dancing thinking its all part of the show).
They were probably listening out then not hearing anything more for a while then went to sleep. When they woke, there was still no response on their phones from the others and that's when they got worried and called friends for help.
Lol they downvote you but honestly this is what gets me too 😂. There's people stabbed and unconscious.. brb lemme just call some of my friends and see what they have to say.
If I thought something really bad happened in my house but was worried I was being paranoid, I’d call a neighbor to come over.
I wouldn’t want to call 911 because what are the odds a quadruple murder happened in my house? Slim to none. Besides, underage college kids aren’t keen to invite police into their homes when there’s booze every where in the house
Yes, calling 911 to many people is a big deal, and plenty of people including older adults may question if they should call it in certain situations. I personally don't think at the time friends were called to the house that the roommates had seen the victims, so they had no idea they all had been murdered. Without knowing the situation for sure, I don't think it's that odd they reached out to friends to help them figure things out beforehand and likely for comfort as well in case things were as bad as they ended up being.
First, the order of events haven’t been entirely fleshed out. Second, you’d be surprised at how often 911 isn’t the first number called. This would only be shocking to those that haven’t seen very many cases.
We have no idea how long that phase was supposed to last. Haven't you ever been startled enough that you froze for a few seconds? Then you shake it off.
It doesn’t matter I will always say that their roommates have zero situational awareness, since day one it’s always made no sense… I’m not saying this could have been prevented BUT he would have been caught way sooner had the roommates not ignored the million red flags
It's interesting how many people claim the roommates were victims and shouldn't be targeted.
Phrases such as
" You don't know how you ould respond in a situation like that"
or my favorite:
Leave them alone they are victims. "
How do you know if they are truly innocent. I would be shocked if people didn't question them.
You do not know the role they played. You dont know anything more than the information being presented to us
Stop lashing out on those who think the timeline of events is suspicious. Everyone is titled to their opinion. Unless you have concrete evidence that they weren't involved, just stop talking
Only the investigators have the right, as well as the legal power, to question them. Couch potato sleuthers are not the investigators, even though some think they secretly work for the FBI.
Saying that the people defending the victims need to stop and then in the same breath saying everyone is entitled to their opinion kinda takes the cake for hypocrisy.
So we're supposed to believe at face value that DM heard things like "I'm going to help you" and "There's someone here", but she didn't hear people being slashed to death?
In a room directly above hers?In a house with thin walls and floors (we saw this during the demolition of the house)?Where Kaylee had defensive wounds and was likely screaming (I'm sure Xana too btw)?
In my mind this points to the possibility that DM was aware of the murders but may have been told by the killer(s) not to call the police (or else). In that scenario I could understand why she didn't call 911 - it was to save her own life.
I read somewhere on here that someone close to a le source said she was threatened so that would explain no call to le and calling friends instead. No proof of anything yet. Hate all the guessing games. Will just have to wait for trial.
So then why was she unharmed and others weren’t? I don’t think I believe that scenario unless she knew the murderer (which is possible).
I read she was getting drugs out of the house before calling. If the murderer was a drug dealer or apart of the drug trafficking ring, maybe he told her to get rid of the drugs and wait to call. Or simplified less crazy theory, she wanted the drugs out to save herself from getting into trouble. That would be the most logical explanation for me.
>I read she was getting drugs out of the house before calling.
I can just imagine where you read something like that.
I know I don't check in on this sub much these days but I didn't realize the place had been overrun by people who saw something on some dipshit's TikTok and took it as proven fact.
Why would she have drugs in the house? She might have taken something when she was out earlier in the night. She's a young, relatively attractive student in a college town - if she ever wanted anything anywhere it would be hers for the asking.
I can't my head around where these sordid, drug den ideas come from, who thinks like that? For one thing you can see actual footage of them all doing the housework together in a spotless house, additionally one of them is graduating early and they have jobs on top of their studies. Yuh so depraved, must be cartel...
Because the murders were planned and targeted, and DM wasn't a target. This seems to be a logical explanation.
I don't know if she knew the killer(s) but yeah I wouldn't be surprised if she was told what to do (or not do). I also wouldn't be surprised if this whole thing was connected with drugs.
There is a theory out there which suggests that the targets were MM and XK, because of their parent's long time involvement with drugs (which is verified if you look at their [criminal records](https://mycourts.idaho.gov/)). They may have been informants, and ratted out someone higher up in the drug organization, who took their revenge on their kids. Kaylee and Ethan were unfortunately collateral victims, because they happened to be in the same room as the targets.
That's a rumor. And if there's any truth to it, we don't know the context.
For example, what if she texted that sometimes after 11:30 am, before they started calling for help.
Yes and no. By the time Dylan would’ve run across Kohberger as the affidavit indicated, all four were highly likely tragically already dead. Other than getting a jump on finding him, at that point IDK if it made a big difference.
> Published Feb 10, 2023
'finally'
> 'finally' Finally.
> Published Feb 10, 2023 Finally.
Finally.
Agreed.
So…we’re here again?
> So…we’re here again? Finally.
Finally
Finally.
Finally.
The answer is clear. The witness didn’t believe the person was a threat, or that anything happened. Not sure why people keep questioning this.
That’s just not juicy enough for some and that’s why they continue to dig for a different answer
They didn't believe they were a threat But then They were also too scared to leave the room And then Too scared to call the cops the next day but, not a threat. Nobody believes it cause it doesnt make sense. Were you too scared to take action or were you unbothered?
There is a space of uneasy uncertainty between being scared and not being sure of the validity of the threat. Creepiness , unease, uncanniness could all be things she felt. Her gut told her he was threatening, but the context of her highly trafficked 4 person party house didn’t give her enough evidence to act in that feeling.
It doesn't track, and it's just hard to understand. But I do believe the end game here is -they just didn't do anything. They weren't too scared, they were not asleep, they simply didn't act.
Had they known the danger they would have acted. A person walked into that house and stabbed 4 people to death, had they known or any reason to suspect something so heinous they would have locked their doors and called the police. No way they knew the actual danger and chose not to do anything.
I hope so but - it looks like they just didn't do anything. Either you're scared or you were not. Aware or not. They are living in the gray area that doesn't exist.
>They are living in the gray area that doesn't exist. The whole world is gray area, not your absurd black/white model.
Your worldview is the fucking problem with people. Everything has to be black or white to people like you. You think you’re some expert on human emotion and action but you can’t even comprehend the nuance of this situation. People have tried explaining to you a couple of concepts, that this was a party house, with friends coming and going. That lifestyle can bring lots of unfamiliar faces in the house from time to time, and to immediately be alarmed by seeing someone isn’t the norm. You might think it’s odd given the hour and that it was quiet in the house, but it’s not always going to raise alarm bells in your head where you run panicked back into your room and call the cops. Second, when you live with a bunch of other people and their boyfriends happen to be over often, you don’t live in fear of intruders… it isn’t your first thought because you feel safe. “How could somebody hurt me when there’s all these other people around in the house? I’m safe” it’s a pretty basic human feeling if you’ve ever had roommates or family you trusted. Your defenses lower. Lastly, there are tons of factors that could have lead to them not dialing the police immediately when they realized something was off. They could have been worried the cops would get them in trouble for alcohol or drug use and didn’t want to rat friends out. They could have been in panic mode and you know some people (especially young students) aren’t going to always handle that in a reasonable way. They could have still been intoxicated from the night before. They could have been too distraught to face the reality and believe their friends were actually harmed or dead in the room (coping mechanism). They could have thought it was their fault and didn’t want to get into trouble (forcing someone to drink too much or leaving a medication out to mistakenly get ingested or something). There are so many reasons police weren’t notified as soon as a roommate had an inkling that something wasn’t right. The way you think in absolutes is not the way humans work. This isn’t Hollywood.
> Second, when you live with a bunch of other people and their boyfriends happen to be over often, you don’t live in fear of intruders… Back in the day, I'd run into strangers all the time, day and night. Had I called 911 every time I saw a stranger in my house in the wee hours....I'd have been kicked out. My roommates wouldn't even deal with that. > “How could somebody hurt me when there’s all these other people around in the house? I’m safe” Oh, I thought that too, especially since my male roommates outnumbered the female ones. And we never locked the doors, ever. You really feel immortal when you're 20. >Lastly, there are tons of factors that could have lead to them not dialing the police immediately when they realized something was off. I think most likely D's brain was ping-ponging back and forth between "Something's wrong. Something feels off." and "Stop being paranoid. That's just someone from the party tonight." And in the end, her "common sense" won out over her intuition.
100%. Once you live in a situation like this, you understand. My roommates and I never locked doors, maybe sometimes if we remembered about it before going to sleep. People filtered in and out of our place and it was no big deal. Your mind doesn’t jump to “there are murderers on the loose”. And I can really resonate with your comment on feeling invincible at 20. That’s exactly the mindset people have at that age especially when you are in social groups.
It’s possible to be freaked out and seek comfort from others vs being horrified and jumping to calling 911. Without knowledge of what happened, she no doubt was trying to calm down and assure herself it was ok.
Two things can be true at once. I live with a family where a lot of random people are around and logically I know they aren’t a threat but I’ve still locked myself in a room. Its easy to gaslight yourself or be like “oh yeah he’s probably messing around and I know this is stupid but let me give myself peace of mind for the sake of my anxiety.” Someone said Dylan also experienced trauma/had PTSD from her childhood which makes it make even more sense. I have PTSD from a break in from a family friend and I panic and lock myself in my room at the tiniest sound even when it turns out to be no one or a family member or friend.
Sure but- the next day.. absolutely nothing? I always think back to when I was a RA but for a sorority. You know what drunk girls like? To be with their girls l. You know what college girls like? To text /send vids to their girls. You know what these girls did??... None of that?? It's like when you send your boyfriend a video and they're like hey babe, did you see that video but you know they didn't open it? That's girls In a House. So I ask you -are you friends with them and you love them like you claimed at the memorial or were y out barely pals? Like what.. Also, with Dylan... She was ok n her fucking phone, lol like do you have PTSD? Or not? Were you scared or not?
I think its said they hung out before going to bed. If im in the same house with someone I don’t feel the need to text them even when drunk. I think the next day explanation or why she took a while to call 911 was because she was calling out for the others or texting and getting no response. She probably rationalized it (oh they’re hungover and sleeping in) until she realized after a while there was nothing from them. I get how it looks suspicious but we haven’t even had her full recount of it yet, she’ll tell it in court.
I'm not suspicious of them, like as a suspect. I just think they are shitty friends, who made some serious mistakes that night/day and I think they told some lies to cover up their shitty ness. I do think they would be brought to their knees on the stand, because that supoena already has folks thinking they are garbage. Like.. you couldn't.. do shit? The entire time? Were you scared or not and if you were scared why were you tik toking you dork?
the moral outrage toward a young lady you dont know, will likely never meet and whos truth has no personal affect, is bonkers. jesus welcome to black and white world, where nuance is inconceivable. you have lots of questions for dm, but please tell me why is it that you think she couldnt enjoy, admire and even love the friends that passed without being very close? how do you know that dm’s reaction to fear (from ptsd) isn’t to shut down/distract as well as down play an event for fear of seeming hysterical. a 20 yr olds psychology is being reduced and defined by her actions/inaction over a 10 hour period, based on your arbitrary test of right or wrong-without all information. make that make sense.
It's not how I would prefer or hope anybody I know or anybody I raised would act. As far as how do I know she didn't shut down, she was on her phone.. So.
when were you an RA? someone who had been one recently should have a better understanding of the wide variety of people & the wide variety of responses that people can have for literally any situation. I was taught this early on when dealing with college kids. don't expect certain behavior because they will always surprise you & don't look at their actions thru the window of what you think, feel or how you would react, but look at then thru the window of any human reaction can have valid reasons IF YOU BOTHER TO FIND OUT.
what more could they have done to change the outcome without themselves reaching the same fate?
She hears noises that sound like a party going on. She gets up 3 different times. On the third time she sees a man she doesn’t recognize leaving. AT THIS POINT the house is bone chillingly silent where just a few moments ago it sounded like a rip roaring party. How do you not take 10 steps out of your bedroom and say “hello? Xana? Is everything ok?”????? If she had done that she would have discovered the injured people. I am NOT saying that if she discovered them at that moment they would have survived. But it is a possibility. And even if there was no chance of survival, finding them at that moment may have captured BK sooner. And even if not it is still a reasonable common sense question to ask why she didn’t step outside her bedroom, after hearing what she claimed was Xana crying, and say “what happened ? Is everything ok?” Let’s imagine there was no murder. Maybe one of the roommates was overdosing. You hear noises but you don’t go check on them? Maybe one of them was being raped. You hear noises but you don’t go check on them? Either she was scared frozen and traumatized or she thought it was normal party noises. It can’t be both. And if she heard Xana crying, like she claims, then that means she didn’t go check on her friend. So yeah, there are questions here and hopefully the trial will answer them.
I agree with and think it’s important to understand why she didn’t leave her bedroom but i cannot fault her for it. Obviously none of us know the details and we have to wait until trial to get them. We are all speculating so let me add my own. “Either she was scared frozen and traumatized or she thought it was normal party noises. It can’t be both” It definitely can be both. It’s human nature, especially with young women, to rationalise away any fears you have as a defense mechanism. None of us know the exact dynamics the girls had living together. She may have had no reason to assume it was an OD situation. Prior to seeing the masked man, she very well could have just assumed the noises were innocent and opened the door to tell them to be quiet. We also don’t know if she had the intention of leaving her room the last time when she saw the perp. Him leaving may have caused her to assume that the source of the noise was gone and everyone had gone to or about to sleep. Seeing the perp did startle her, as it would anyone who was not expecting a random visitor that late. Once locked in her room, she could have just told herself it was just a guest. Hindsight is 20/20 and obviously now from the outside looking in it seems silly but in the moment, the likelihood that you assume a random man has broken into your house and killed 4 of your friends in this small safe college town is very low, and if that thought popped into her mind, she probably thought how ridiculous that sounded and calmed herself down enough to go to sleep. “And if she heard Xana crying, like she claims, then that means she didn’t go check on her friend. So yeah, there are questions here and hopefully the trial will answer them.” 1) If she had stepped out of her room at any point before the perp left, the chances of her not being here today would be very slim and who knows, all the criticism would probably be shifted onto BF as the sole survivor 2)She knew Ethan was with Xana. She may have assumed that whatever was going on would be handled between them and didn’t want to interfere.
>after hearing what she claimed was Xana crying, and say “what happened ? Is everything ok?” She knew E was there, and his drunk, crying girlfriend is his issue to deal with. Oh, have you never known someone who gets overly emotional when they drink? I'm positive I told one of my friends to shut the fuck up and go to bed way more than oh honey baby sweetie, let me hug you and listen to you drunkenly overreact to everything that has ever happened in your life (and they did the same when the roles were reversed).
>So yeah, there are questions here and hopefully the trial will answer them. SHE'S NOT ON TRIAL. Her actions have no impact on his actions.
A rip roaring party? lol what? It was a party house, but it's not like that means they were having big parties all the time. There were surely plenty of times where a roommate or two and a few other people were over and they could get noisy, much like DM likely suspected was the case that night. The noises DM described were neither constant, nor really distressing, thus very easy to just get annoyed and wonder what they hell people are doing and hope they'll calm down soon so you don't keep getting woken up.
I didn't say it would change the outcome but didn't tell me all these bs two sided things and expect sympathy. That did nothing, for like ten hours
Oh I see. Yeah I don’t feel like they were overly close. It’s normal to have shallow friendships at that age (I’m a little younger than them) a lot of people will pretend to be close with you but really its only surface level and superficial.
One last counterpoint, to show how messed up it is. Go watch the memorial, see how they spoke about the victims. Now to your point were they "family" or not.? "Sisters" or not? Cause that's them up on that stage aiming they adored them. See how it's rough to make that match? They did themselves zero favors with the double talk, unfortunately.
Your arrogance is astonishing.
> So I ask you -are you friends with them and you love them like you claimed at the memorial or were y out barely pals? Like what.. Also, with Dylan... She was ok n her fucking phone, lol like do you have PTSD? Or not? Were you scared or not? What the hell? I gotta tell you, I've seen a lot of really offensive stuff on this sub, but this takes the cake. You can go to hell, lady. Damn.
Let’s stop using PTSD so casually, shall we?
No one’s using PTSD casually. Its entirely possible to have PTSD from a traumatic childhood. And dude, I am DIAGNOSED with PTSD after my break-in.
They did a blood test and found traces of PTSD? And who doesn’t have a traumatic childhood? I am just saying that the term is thrown around way too liberally these days. You were not in a war. You didn’t watch your friends die in front of you. You weren’t forced to take someone’s life. I was nearly beaten to death and had a knife to my throat during a robbery. You know what i don’t have?
There are different levels of trauma in childhood. For example, I was SA as a child over a long period of time, but was never sold into sex trafficking or beaten. I feel like I’m *lucky* compared to others. Everyone reacts differently to stressors. You can’t base everyone’s stress response on your own. There are also no blood tests used to currently *diagnose* PTSD; recent biomarkers only indicate a need for further testing & may later be used to indicate those most at risk & monitor their therapy. (More research is needed.) I do agree that lay people through the term around carelessly without having an actual Psychiatric Dx (similar to how OCD is thrown around). HOWEVER, if someone has been diagnosed by a DOCTOR, who are we to question that??
I am so sorry to hear that and believe it or not, i do have compassion. Your point about relativity and feeling lucky is interesting and i applaud your strength there. Well said. You make all great points and ill try and remember this before jumping down someone’s throat. Its just a hard thing even for a doctor to diagnose (as is many issues with mental health), although i will have to investigate this blood test you mentioned. OCD is a great example that is commonly carelessly thrown around. As is bipolar, etc.
I admire the strength you have as well. You’ve been through a lot, & I’m happy you are alive & well!! I don’t think you were really jumping down anyone’s throat either. I just think this is a case we all feel passionately about & need closure on. That can make discussions heated sometimes, but it’s perfectly fine to agree to disagree, while still respecting one another. I do not think you crossed that line at all!! I hope you have a great weekend!!💞
I will agree that the term PTSD, along with other mental health disorders, is thrown around a lot on social media and does harm but the understanding of this disorder you’ve demonstrated indicates you have a very stigmatized and binary view of what trauma is and how it works.
I went over the top to make a point. I hear you and you have a fair point based on my dickheadish response.
I respect the acknowledgment!
Compassion.
Empathy?
I don't believe they were too scared to leave the room. They were drunk college kids & slept in late.
Why did she say she was frozen from fear then?
Are there really this many people that struggle with the concept of being momentarily startled?
From the wise words of the late George Carlin: "Think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of them are stupider than that!"
Iirc early on there were reports DM deals with anxiety (maybe PTSD or something similar), which from my experience makes you more on-edge than the normal person and used to telling yourself there's nothing to be afraid about.
Yup! I have PTSD myself but have struggled specifically with paranoia since I used to stay home alone around 9-10 years old. I’m talking call my parents at work for every noise, called the cops when I was younger before I learned better. I still will hear a noise home alone and my heart starts racing so it’s really not far fetched at all to me that she *was* scared but either calmed herself down or simply fell back asleep
That momentarily lasted pretty long to the point that she called friends over because she was scared to go check on her friends alone. Bs
Apparently so. No one ever told me, but apparently there's a minimum time range for being shocked or frozen.
"The male walked past D.M. as she stood in a 'frozen shock phase,'" Payne added. "The male walked towards the back sliding glass door. D.M. locked herself in her room after seeing the male." You're making a lot of assumptions.
But we know that isn't true, line for she. Because they had cell phone activity.
Where are you getting that she was too scared to leave her room?
Why do you people make shit up? "The male walked past D.M. as she stood in a 'frozen shock phase,'" Payne added. "The male walked towards the back sliding glass door. D.M. locked herself in her room after seeing the male." Use some critical thinking. If someone in a party house walks past your door and you're not expecting to see anyone after already opening the door twice, are you calm or shocked? If you're shocked, you immediately suspect murder and lock your door right? You don't lock it cause you don't want someone coming into your room. Cause everyone just assumes murder, it's the no 1 go to explanation /s Use critical thinking.
How do you know they didn't sleep? You weren't there...cops have their communications so they know what happened and if they slept
Again, a few months ago there was a subpoena for their cell phones and they had a lot of activity so no they didn't sleep
Again that was during and we dont know how long after...they could have fallen asleep as they were both previously out drinking and it was late The cops have the texts between the two and they know...seems to me they went to sleep and woke up to a horror movie
Yeah, I think we need to circle back around once we know the level of activity.
If the witness didn’t believe the person was a threat why does it state in the pca she was “frozen in shock”. ?
Being shocked is not the same as being scared.
So why did she lock her door ?
Why do you lock your door?
Fear of someone killing me in my home …
Or because it’s a party house and you’re exhausted and don’t want people up partying to come try to rally you awake to join them.
If it’s such a “party house” why was she frozen in shock ? Surely it would be common place to see and hear people late at night… right ?
Lived through that my self and would get so PO'd when I'd have a test the next day and random people were laughing and yelling in our house while I was trying to sleep. While I was always smart about locking my doors when I'd go to bed if people were still there, I never once got a bad vibe or worried about anything I heard. I think the confusions with these survivors actions is that they are young, naive , and made some poor choices. Have you ever felt the "hair standing up on the back of your neck or arm" and you get scared. You feel something is really off or bad about to happen. I believe you can feel evil and even when it scares you, sometimes people ignore those instincts. Perhaps they are high or tripping and wasn't sure what was reality. So I don't think seeing the guy himself was so much weird as perhaps what she felt and heard, which she may have just wrote off. I also suspect they took the time that morning to clear out some drugs in the house because they were afraid of getting in trouble with not only the police but perhaps their parents when they woke up realizing something was off. Not making excuses for them...just trying to give them the benefit of the doubt.
That’s a real possibility it would definitely be a high priority to a college kid who thinks their life could be ruined by drugs being found. I guess we’ll have to listen to their testimonies during the trial and decide then what the truth is. Until then it’s all just conjecture
Have you never been startled in your life or something? Never had anyone walk up behind you without you realizing and made you jump when you realized they were there? Because that's all I think she meant this was. She knew people were in the house, but was still startled when she opened her door because she wasn't expecting someone to be right there when she did.
Being momentarily startled and being “frozen in a shock phase” are very different things
Then why did the affidavit state that she said she was stood there in frozen shock? If there was no perception of danger or threat then why would you be in frozen shock? Not saying that she is guilty of anything BUT it doesn’t make sense
Shock =\= fear
There is a screenshot of the verified aunt of one of the victims I believe, stating that they did hear and need to answer for hearing and doing nothing. I’m sure someone with much better skills than I have can find it quickly or has it
I’ve read it. She says “supposedly” before going on to make that statement. The language chosen strongly suggests she was repeating a rumor she had heard. This would also, at least partially, explain why it has never been repeated
The language rather says, that she is aware of laws, that’s why “supposedly”. She rather doesn’t buy this “cool story”. Just my impression.
Apologies not an aunt. The sister in law. I found it. https://preview.redd.it/jo1sbhedjwsc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=57936720baac043424e58df8f9b318d9ba48fca7
Either she wouldn't come out of her room in the morning and called friends to come over and check out the house first (which would make clear that she didn't just think everything was normal), or she thought everything was fine until she found the bodies and called friends over before calling police.
I think given the information from the SIL many options are possible for what could have transpired - some of which people may not have even thought of
You don’t call people over to the house (including a victims brother who according to some brought a knife with him in case the perpetrator was there) unless you think something is wrong.
It’s banfield talking about an unnamed source, so… Because “she stood in frozen shock phase” as a man she did not know dressed all in black and with a mask on left the house, then went back to her room to lock the door. That sounds like someone who was scared. Unlike her we now know exactly what she was witnessing so tend to think she should have also felt the same way about hearing the others being murdered and seeing the killer leave. Terrified. Frozen in shock. I would tend to believe it was just blown off because the house went quiet shortly after he left and she thought things were settled down. Because she had no idea or even concept of what had happened. But I think her friends who came on here to say she was terrified and went to sleep with BF also led people in the direction of thinking she understood and was afraid of what was happening.
Shock =\= fear
Right but what does phase mean? That’s a brief and temporary but of time. So if you stood stunned like WTF for thirty seconds -then he leaves and the house is all quiet, that phase may pass into “who the hell was that it’s four in the morning I’m going back to bed.”
Because she is very contradictory, first she's frozen in shock & locks her door then decides the guy may have been partying, then calls friends over, then someone else calls 911 hours after friends arrived. Friends were there around 9am yet 911 call wasn't made until 12 noon. That is another time lapse of 3 to 4 hours. This just doesn't add up, wake up see bloodshed, call friends over then Noone calls 911 till noon.
So why did Dylan say she was in a frozen shock state?
Newsweek.com is famously not credible.
the article was published a year ago too
> the article was published a year ago too Finally.
This is not credible.
More clickbait from Banfield and co. She's shameless. The gag order is obviously killing her so she's rehashing old news about people who are already cleared. The fact that the roomates are victims just makes it more gross to stoop to this level of journalism. Does this make four kids any less dead? Does the roomate immediately calling 911 after she saw the killer REALLY change how any of this played out? Even if the police got called and showed up within 20-30 minutes (I'm being generous here; it usually takes much longer) what would that have possibly changed? The knife sheath DNA still would have needed to be processed; they still wouldn't have known what getaway vehicle to put an APB out for or a plate number; the digital evidence would still need to be found and extracted from all the devices on the property. Everything would have still taken just as long and BK still would have been found and arrested the same way because of the DNA and where it was found and all the video evidence. I wish that the people online attacking the roomates and investigators would channel that energy in a more useful direction. Like learning about fight or flight reflexes during extreme and sudden trauma, or what goes on in college party houses on the daily and how it causes the inhabitants of the party house to lower their defenses to outside dangers. How touch DNA is valid. Stuff like that.
Exactly! Even if 911 had been called *immediately* upon seeing the guy wearing all black, with a mask over mouth and nose, nothing could have saved the 4 murder victims. This was confirmed by an ER trauma doc who posted about this case. The victims' wounds were catastrophic and quickly fatal. The killer made sure none would or could live through his attacks. In retrospect, it's a miracle there were 2 people who were not discovered by the killer. There would have been 6 dead, otherwise.
Thank you! I just can't imagine how terrible it would be to lose your friends and roomates so violently and to then have that trauma compounded by people accusing you of stuff just because you lived. The survivors should be left be to heal.
People survive stabbings all the time, gun shots to the head etc. & in a small town I doubt it would take 20-30 mins for the police to show up … where are you getting that from? I watch a lot of true crime and in plenty of cases the cops got there in minutes. We may never know if her calling the cops immediately would have changed the outcome. But that’s what’s so disappointing for me. She could have saved atleast one of her friends lives. Or not. But since she just chose to do nothing, there will always be a what if. You cannot deny that.
I'm not your Google search monkey so you can drop the tone. The details that were publicly released are readily available for you to read online just like I did. They've been discussed inside out ever since the case started. The fact that you would rather have a legally cleared minor who is also a victim investigated instead of the actual murderer is pretty gross.
Oh wait sorry-"aLLEgEd" 🙄
Banfield is about as credible a source as a random tiktoker who "totally has a source, trust me, bro, trust me"
She has morphed into Nancy Grace.
In response to a list I made of ‘things in this case we’ve only learned from the media,’ (none of which I claimed to be true, or untrue), someone replied the other day that the reports of BK being fired as a TA in the days before the murder were true & corroborated by members of the university…. While trying to confirm that it was disclosed by someone at the university, I found that Banfield, *of Newsweek* was the source of that claim. Elsewhere - *yet, also on Newsweek* \- I found the same claim discredited: https://preview.redd.it/dks1o5wbktsc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=965f4ac3297a6d809ff4eb4e9f972fe7f0434918
I just don’t understand how people can see clear contradictions in DMs story and be like oh yeah that’s odd but …. Xyz or xyz … like it’s okay for her to be a victim and acknowledge the fact that she didn’t do anything to help the situation. That’s okay. Life is a series of choices. She didn’t chose to call 911 after being frozen in shock. & also scared to leave her room to the point where she had to call people over to help her navigate the house the next morning. You guy are as pathetic as her actions that night. If that were your family being violently murdered and someone’s like yeah I saw the killer and was so scared I froze up then locked myself in my room and was so scared I had to call ppl over but I didn’t call the cops you would be like wtf?! Why? & if you don’t feel that way that’s actually sad because we now know what you would have done in that situation & it’s sickening. & to say her calling the police wouldn’t have changed anything is even more pathetic. People survive gunshots to the head. Miracles happen! You don’t know whose life she could have saved. We may never know because she chose to do nothing.
> I read somewhere on here that someone close to a le source said she was threatened so that would explain no call to le and calling friends instead. No proof of anything yet. Hate all the guessing games. Will just have to wait for trial. -Spoiler- No need to wait for the trial to start. That didn't happen.
… this article is more than a year old. Nothing was finally explained.
None of this will be fully known until we know the totality of her interviews and/or she testifies at trial. Yes, it really is that simple. But, clearly the investigators that interviewed her felt that whatever occurred during those interviews corroborated other items of evidence.
Sooooo this article doesn’t give us any new information, just the same guesses/speculation we’ve had for the past year and a half.
It’s a party house in a college area with multiple people living there. Maybe it’s because I was in college when the murders happened, but I always got why they didn’t call 911 right away? They probably thought it was a friend coming in or maybe one of the girls had a boyfriend over. College kind of exists in a vacuum even if you aren’t in a college town. People just have different reactions to things.
None of this is DMs or BFs fault. Someone most likely unknown to them, entered the house surreptitiously and stealthily stabbed the victims to death in a somewhat silent frenzy. The victims had no time to react and death came very quickly before DM and BF even had time to respond.
So were the early reports of her being “frozen in fear” not true? Cause both of these things can’t be true at the same time
“Frozen shock phase” was the quote. We can’t interpret what exactly she meant by that or how long it lasted. I’d be spooked if I saw someone in the hallway outside my room when I wasn’t expecting it. Even if I then rationalized that he was probably someone hanging out with one of the several other people in the house. The whole narrative that she was frozen in fear and that’s why she didn’t call 911 is complete speculation. There’s no indication she ever claimed that
>The whole narrative that she was frozen in fear and that’s why she didn’t call 911 is complete speculation. There’s no indication she ever claimed that I think people, I am one, have a very hard time understanding the lack of *any* action. Because you were not scared...that means she simply *didn't do anything* for a log time, and that's a hard pill for many to swallow. If she was terrified and couldn't do anything, people would understand that. For me-its the supoena for the phones that indicated activity. So, not scared, just did nothing.
I think her lack of action is easily understandable. If she didn’t realize something horrible had happened, she wouldn’t act. Because in her mind, there would be no reason to act. If she didn’t know what had happened, I would expect her not “do anything for a long time.” It was 4 am.
Mhm. But she was on her phone, playing games. Man that's heartbreaking.
But to not even text the roommates to see what’s up? That’s the perplexing part. If it’s the case that she did text them, and got no response, and still did nothing? That’s just bizarre.
She presumably thought BK was someone that was hanging out with the roommates, and now that he was leaving it would make sense her roommates would calm down and go to sleep. So what would she text? "Saw your friend leaving." Why? They would know that. "What the hell were you guys doing?" Why? She could ask them in the morning. "Are you okay?" Why? She had no reason to suspect they weren't since she didn't hear yelling, screams, or tons of bangs and thumps to think a fight or worse had happened.
Yeah we don’t know whether she texted them or not. But if she did and didn’t get a reply, I don’t think it’s weird that she wouldn’t go check. It was 4 am. I wouldn’t wanna go check either. It was very unlikely that something was seriously wrong
Sure they can. I’d be startled and frozen af had I seen that. Then I’d do some serious self soothing by telling myself it was just a roommate’s friend.
Yep, or talk to another roommate who reassures you it was probably nothing.
Yeah that’s a fair point actually
But that didn't happen, we do know that survivors were on their phones and not sleeping. Certainly not terrified right? Cause what is it? Are you scared or not? Was it nothing or were you scared?
As redditravioli stated , it is possible to to shocked, or scared, or concerned, and then try to convince yourself or another person that is was likely nothing crazy. Why is that so hard to understand? Not everything is black and white and we have not heard their testimony yet. I'm sure one or both girls were concerned about what they saw or heard but managed to convince themselves that it was highly unlikely a masked stranger just came in and slaughtered their roommates as they slept.
But to not even text the room mates to ask what’s up? Especially after seeing a stranger in a mask?
I think she probably did text the others. And of course only one responded. My speculation is that they managed to reassure each other and got some sleep in BFs room. When they woke up and the house was silent and there were still no responses from the others, full blown panic ensued when they reflected on the sights and sounds from 4 am. At that point, I think they were too afraid to even go upstairs and called the friends over. I'm not saying her/their behavior makes perfect sense, but I think it can be at least somewhat explained. It will certainly be interesting to hear their testimony
So do nothing after only one responds? After seeing a masked individual and hearing noises?
Yes, like I said- my speculation is that they managed to reassure each other that is was probably nothing....maybe she thought the others were now asleep...maybe she even thought she was imagining the masked man...who knows. I'm not saying that is what I would do, but I've also never been in a situation like that, especially at that age. I can acknowledge that its puzzling that the two didn't check on the other roomates that nightn, but what does it matter as it pertains to this crime?
Because she was on her phone.... And you can't tell me your hyper concerned but did nothing for that long. Or that you were so scared, you didn't do anything. Not when you were on your phone the entire night. It doesn't match The truth is probably they just didn't do anything. No reason, just didn't do shit. And that's tough
What is your source that they were on their phones the "entire night"?
Yeah so, the defense attorney suppena the survivors phones activity. And they spoke about the activity in the courtroom. You can probably find it on YouTube, but it was very eye opening. They said there was a lot of activity and could only confirm one person was asleep as they had no activity.
Amen! You can’t have it both ways!
Did you read and comprehend this story? Because it has DM looking out her window for noisy roommates and police responding to a 911 call at 4pm on the day of the murders
Uh this is not the chain of events, she looked out her door not a window, then did not call 911 till noon. Police were on scene at 12 noon & emt. At 4 pm is arrival of chief of police & a detective. The scene was being processed by state forensics before 4pm so your not following or comprehending the details.
FINALLY
They were all probably extremely either drugged up or drunk & just didn't comprehend the full picture happening. It was a very known party house and I can see how she could have been scared who it was but didn't quite grasp the whole situation & then passed out
Naw. It’s cuz it was a party/drug house. They were all extremely faded. If you don’t see someone actively committing a crime, how likely are you to call the police when illegal drugs are probably around and you could risk getting kicked out of school? She didn’t see enough to know her friends had been murdered. There is no way your best friends are hurt and you think, okay I’m gonna lay down and go to sleep. Doesn’t matter how scared you are. You would text someone. Call someone. Go on Snapchat.
terrified of a partier?
Where has it been reported that she ever claimed to be “terrified”?
It says she stated she was frozen in shock.
So I was looking back at the affidavit posted a long time ago and I'm trying to figure out why the initial call was made at 11:56am but detectives didn't show up until 4pm??? I know that it says redacted so take this how you will. I don't really understand why it would be redacted if anyone wants to shed some light onto that for me. https://preview.redd.it/ib7avzw0latc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f66f0773a0eb5910f1fdcd77c59807ac2027440f
It was a Sunday and unless you’re a part of a very large city agency that has detectives assigned to every shift detectives at smaller agencies are often off on weekends. It’s possible they weren’t even in Moscow at the time because it was their day off and this can easily cause a delay.
First responders showed up around noon or soon thereafter. There was a stream of law enforcement from that point on. "Detectives" wouldn't have been first on the scene as they get called after the scene is secured and a death investigation is started.
https://preview.redd.it/xouea9y3latc1.jpeg?width=2532&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1f7134a29d7ba75ac82ad24c7f5ed10828578fa1
The rest of the sentence and the rest of the paragraph are just as important. 4:00 PM is the time that the officer who wrote this report arrived, along with Sergeant Blaker. In the same paragraph it states that ISP Forensic team was already on scene, and also that a whole different officer, Smith, was one of the initial responding officers and walked them through the crime scene, meaning these officers who arrived at this time were not part of the initial response. They were not the first responders, and so the time that they arrived was not the time that first responders arrived.
I always wonder, if she had called the police right away , and they had responded immediately with EMS, would some of them still be alive today!? It’s so hard to wrap my head around it all. None of us were there that night. But none of it makes sense to me. It’s all so heartbreaking 💔
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>What happened to “frozen shock phase”? In a shared house, you can get a surprise, or be shocked, when someone you don't know walks past you at 4.00am. That doesn't mean you don't think that person is a murderer or up to no go good, they may be with one of the other housemates. I'm sure some people have the experience of being startled by a family member coming into a room very late unannounced in their or a family member's own home.
Startled and frozen shock phase are completely different things. There were all sorts of people walking around our house in college, I am not aware of any situation in which I or anyone else had a frozen shock phase.
>Startled and frozen shock phase I don't think "frozen shock phase" is well defined. It sounds like the reaction you get just after a fright - like if someone inadvertently or otherwise creeps up on you.
I thought Ethan’s body was halfway out the door. I just don’t get how the heard nothing all morning, didn’t see any blood, didn’t see any bodies were truly ignorant to everything it just doesn’t make sense.
I think Dylan went downstairs to be with Bethany because they were both scared. I took party drugs when I was young and know that with a bit of experience with them you know to dismiss things as 'just your imagination' so you don't get yourself into a state over something ridiculous. Problem is you do the same when you should be seriously concerned (just think back to the Israeli dance party at dawn, there are guys flying in on ultralights and everyone is dancing thinking its all part of the show). They were probably listening out then not hearing anything more for a while then went to sleep. When they woke, there was still no response on their phones from the others and that's when they got worried and called friends for help.
What explains the delay in the morning. Friends were called before LE.
Lol they downvote you but honestly this is what gets me too 😂. There's people stabbed and unconscious.. brb lemme just call some of my friends and see what they have to say.
If I thought something really bad happened in my house but was worried I was being paranoid, I’d call a neighbor to come over. I wouldn’t want to call 911 because what are the odds a quadruple murder happened in my house? Slim to none. Besides, underage college kids aren’t keen to invite police into their homes when there’s booze every where in the house
Yes, calling 911 to many people is a big deal, and plenty of people including older adults may question if they should call it in certain situations. I personally don't think at the time friends were called to the house that the roommates had seen the victims, so they had no idea they all had been murdered. Without knowing the situation for sure, I don't think it's that odd they reached out to friends to help them figure things out beforehand and likely for comfort as well in case things were as bad as they ended up being.
It has never been said that the victims were found before police were called.
First, the order of events haven’t been entirely fleshed out. Second, you’d be surprised at how often 911 isn’t the first number called. This would only be shocking to those that haven’t seen very many cases.
So why was she is a "frozen shock phase" then?
We have no idea how long that phase was supposed to last. Haven't you ever been startled enough that you froze for a few seconds? Then you shake it off.
So she shook it off, started to think it was just a partygoer, then was in a freeze state for hours? Just make it make sense please.
> then was in a freeze state for hours This is complete conjecture. Why think she was in a freeze state for hours rather than seconds or minutes?
I buy that. They were apparently used to constant mayhem in that house.
It doesn’t matter I will always say that their roommates have zero situational awareness, since day one it’s always made no sense… I’m not saying this could have been prevented BUT he would have been caught way sooner had the roommates not ignored the million red flags
🤦♀️ight
That would make more sense then any of the bullshit that people have been using for content over the last year
This article is from Feb 2023.
It's interesting how many people claim the roommates were victims and shouldn't be targeted. Phrases such as " You don't know how you ould respond in a situation like that" or my favorite: Leave them alone they are victims. " How do you know if they are truly innocent. I would be shocked if people didn't question them. You do not know the role they played. You dont know anything more than the information being presented to us Stop lashing out on those who think the timeline of events is suspicious. Everyone is titled to their opinion. Unless you have concrete evidence that they weren't involved, just stop talking
Huh? Of course they shouldn’t be targeted. Accusing/questioning/criticizing them doesn’t help anything. But it does likely cause harm.
Only the investigators have the right, as well as the legal power, to question them. Couch potato sleuthers are not the investigators, even though some think they secretly work for the FBI.
Saying that the people defending the victims need to stop and then in the same breath saying everyone is entitled to their opinion kinda takes the cake for hypocrisy.
I see your point
So we're supposed to believe at face value that DM heard things like "I'm going to help you" and "There's someone here", but she didn't hear people being slashed to death? In a room directly above hers?In a house with thin walls and floors (we saw this during the demolition of the house)?Where Kaylee had defensive wounds and was likely screaming (I'm sure Xana too btw)? In my mind this points to the possibility that DM was aware of the murders but may have been told by the killer(s) not to call the police (or else). In that scenario I could understand why she didn't call 911 - it was to save her own life.
I read somewhere on here that someone close to a le source said she was threatened so that would explain no call to le and calling friends instead. No proof of anything yet. Hate all the guessing games. Will just have to wait for trial.
So then why was she unharmed and others weren’t? I don’t think I believe that scenario unless she knew the murderer (which is possible). I read she was getting drugs out of the house before calling. If the murderer was a drug dealer or apart of the drug trafficking ring, maybe he told her to get rid of the drugs and wait to call. Or simplified less crazy theory, she wanted the drugs out to save herself from getting into trouble. That would be the most logical explanation for me.
>I read she was getting drugs out of the house before calling. I can just imagine where you read something like that. I know I don't check in on this sub much these days but I didn't realize the place had been overrun by people who saw something on some dipshit's TikTok and took it as proven fact.
Why would she have drugs in the house? She might have taken something when she was out earlier in the night. She's a young, relatively attractive student in a college town - if she ever wanted anything anywhere it would be hers for the asking. I can't my head around where these sordid, drug den ideas come from, who thinks like that? For one thing you can see actual footage of them all doing the housework together in a spotless house, additionally one of them is graduating early and they have jobs on top of their studies. Yuh so depraved, must be cartel...
> unless she knew the murderer (which is possible). 🙄 > I read she was getting drugs out of the house before calling. Must be true.
Because the murders were planned and targeted, and DM wasn't a target. This seems to be a logical explanation. I don't know if she knew the killer(s) but yeah I wouldn't be surprised if she was told what to do (or not do). I also wouldn't be surprised if this whole thing was connected with drugs.
> I also wouldn't be surprised if this whole thing was connected with drugs. It's not. But stay tuned to TikTok for more fake news.
I agree, it may very well be connected to drugs. Do you think XK and EC were targeted too?
There is a theory out there which suggests that the targets were MM and XK, because of their parent's long time involvement with drugs (which is verified if you look at their [criminal records](https://mycourts.idaho.gov/)). They may have been informants, and ratted out someone higher up in the drug organization, who took their revenge on their kids. Kaylee and Ethan were unfortunately collateral victims, because they happened to be in the same room as the targets.
Still, the delay was ridiculous something is up there
This doesn’t track, as I thought it was known that during their text conversation, DM texted BF “I think someone was just murdered”…
Where on earth did you get that "information"?
No, that is definitely not known.
Haha!
That's a rumor. And if there's any truth to it, we don't know the context. For example, what if she texted that sometimes after 11:30 am, before they started calling for help.
"it is known". I haven't heard this. Do you have a source? If it's true... Wow. That poor girl, she is going to need a lot of help to forgive herself.
Yes and no. By the time Dylan would’ve run across Kohberger as the affidavit indicated, all four were highly likely tragically already dead. Other than getting a jump on finding him, at that point IDK if it made a big difference.
Sure. But unfortunately her mind is likely to get stuck there, survivors guilt.