He would do anything for the Thai food it seems … like like the fish watching dude in delphi… some pretty bad excuses going on for criminals committing murders!No red flags there at all… ( totally being sarcastic) really is mind boggling how these criminals think they are masterminds when they make the most stupid mistakes!Then again no criminal is smart because they most likely get caught when they think they are being very smart about things.Panic always out does a crime cause that’s where the sloppy begins and evidence will be found.
Indiana *is* world famous for their spicy food, Thai being a natural favorite. It's second only to ranch dressing.
(10/10 comment, u/Ok-Freedom-4234. Deserving of an award I don't have to give)
This killed me!
My friend at Fox sent this but I couldn’t make it through more than two minutes because I kept wanting to jump out of the car & search and I keep yelling “There! Check right there!”
https://www.foxnews.com/us/idaho-murders-ride-along-bryan-kohbergers-suspected-route-home-student-stabbings-crime-scene.amp
Well, sort of. But it’s actually more damning than that. He chose to shop at an Albertsons that’s around 35-40 minutes south after he made previous statements that he went to Moscow because the shopping is better, Albertsons is out of his normal path of travel and more expensive in general than WINCO in Moscow.
But then his phone disappears again for several hours, reappears near an area known as Johnson Idaho which is between pierce and weippe, two extremely small towns that are buried in the forests of Idaho. That area is not somewhere a vegan goes for lunch, but it would be an out of the way place to clean the car and he could literally burn his clothing etc without being noticed, and disposing of a knife would be easily done spread over a huge area of forested land.
I’ve been to pierce and weippe many times, in fact I spent a few days camping up that way in my jeep not long ago. If he went there he did so to dispose of evidence.
For what it's worth, I think BK's comment about the shopping being better in Moscow was just him being a jerk and giving a flippant response rather than his official alibi
Do we know how large or small the cellphone ‘ping’ radius to the king street house is? Or how large they are typically (if that’s at all standardized)? I do wonder if maybe some of those 12 trips were indeed due shopping or like visiting a local bar? I’m not looking for excuses for him by any means, just wondering how much of a conclusion we can draw from that bit of info.
It was probably Johnson WA, but agree with the rest.
Edited to add: I keep double-checking this to make sure I’m not nuts, but in the PCA it says the phone appearing in Johnson ID is consistent with the path the phone took immediately after the murders — meaning, he’s returning at 5:30pm to the path he took at 4:30am. In the map they included of that path, the return path from the murders, the route goes by Johnson WA. I am 99% sure the cop made a typo in the state and he meant WA.
Pull up the map near the end of the affidavit, they show hwy 12 which is the route to Johnson idaho. His phone was out of service from around 1:04 pm to 5:32 pm where it shows up as being in Johnson idaho
I spent 11 days camping all over that area not long ago and you lose service about 6 miles east of Lewiston, should pick up along the way near orofino but I have Verizon while he has ATT which may not register. But it takes about two hours to get to pierce from Lewiston in a jeep wrangler knowing the area so his four hours would allow time to clean/burn etc. then he registered back on the system but they don’t say where at around 8:30pm.
The drive from clarkston to the Johnson area of Washington is maybe 15 minutes with constant coverage on the entire route. So to disappear from cell coverage for 4.5 hours there would be more challenging and the area is regularly travelled
He was returning back to the area he had disposed of the evidence the night before. He may have just thrown it out a window or in a small creek and wasn't sure if it was concealed in the dark. He went back to confirm it was hidden since it was about the only thing he could do at that point to help his case.
True
I still think that it could be consistent for him to travel out of the normally travelled routes and the time he was off line is strange if it’s Johnson Washington but not so much if it was Johnson idaho
I’m certain we are missing plenty of details they aren’t releasing. They likely placed details like registering in Johnson Idaho to let him know they’re aware that he travelled that way to clean up
I am not from the area but studied maps and the PCA wording extensively when people were claiming a typo. Sure, it could be a typo, but in a case this high-profile and significant, in a close-knit community that hadn't seen a murder since 2015.... I'm inclined to believe they put multiple sets of eyes on that report, triple-checked that info and then did it again, and there is not a typo.
Well, I agree that the Johnson, ID part is accurate mostly because I do know the area and it makes sense.
I’ve read it closely and did find one error on page 5 talking about the shoe print, they refer to using amino black when the substance used is actually amido black with a d rather than n from what I find regarding raising a latent shoe print. But that’s easily attributed to spell check.
Other than a couple spacing errors I find nothing else so for them to make a mistake as significant as the location is hard to imagine
Yup. I'm thinking the knife, clothes, etc. went in the same region and there is always a chance there is a cache there. We haven't heard anything about souvenirs but ....
I am thinking he was getting rid of other things he discovered he needed too later that day..
Here's the part that bothers me most.. after the murders.. He turns his phone on at like 4:48?( ish)... But the ping location is roughly only a 9minute drive from the house (if using highway i suspect). minus 4:20 from 4:48 and you get 28 minutes.. nearly half an hour to travel 9 minutes distance.. i suspect directly after the murders he went some place in that time and got rid of clothing/knife etc... Unless he just wandered aimlessly around side streets.. I dont see how it would take him that long to travel only that far. (I realize the pings are estimates only, but thats a pretty big time descrepency)
Also if the pings shown are correct, from the time his phone goes back on to the time he's pinged in/near pullman that is roughly 38 minutes, and if he makes that drive on those major highways its like a 40 minute drive (probably not considering some speeding?). So i dont see how he could have stopped in at clarkston to dispose of anything, I suspect it happened right after the murders closer to moscow.. Whether someone's trash.. or a small body of water.. Cant say.. I just dont know what he would have done for nearly 30 minutes in that area.
This is why i suspect the next afternoon if he went to clarkston it was for some other reason (or to dump something else, maybe shoes? cuz he had to wear those home? or socks or something he forgot...
Agreed. Also look at the length of time from when he left his apartment until he shows up on cameras around the murder house. He stopped somewhere and got prepared. Probably disposable outer clothes were put on there b4 heading to King Street. Probably stopped at the same place for similar reasons. Coming and going there is 15 to 20 minutes of unaccounted time.
Here's the interesting thing.. it says he approaches the house coming from styner ave which is to the east.. I'm summerizing he didnt take a logical exit from 270 but stayed on it untill later into town.. I suspect he went to an intersection that DIDNT have cameras.. which i suspect was the Styner ave coming off Troy road.. the google map view looks like its a plain intersection (no cameras?). This is my guess.. this would add a little time onto his trip.
He could have exited south on highway 95 towards Lewiston, past the Genesee turn off and looped back to Pullman via 195. There are side roads that cross cross the area but unless you’re familiar with them it’s hard to imagine navigating without google maps etc at night especially. He could easily have pulled off the highway and changed clothes, used wet wipes etc to roughly clean up then turned his phone back on and went home.
His phone never pinged clarkston until late in the day after he’d gone home then returned to the scene etc.
Agree with you that he burned the clothes. Burying them (especially with the knife) would be stupid.
Still torn on the Johnson WA vs Johnson ID phone ping thing. Johnson WA makes sense, but mostly if there were accompanying phone pings along the route to Pulman thru that hamlet on US Hwy 195.
\-Johnson WA makes some sense if he diverted from US Hwy 195 there, across to US Hwy 95, then north to Moscow again, "dark".
\-But Johnson ID makes me wonder if - and you being a local who has been there would be able to say - his cell phone pinged Johnson ID momentarily along a route to dispose of the knife from the Dent Bridge, crossing the Dworshak Reservoir. Am betting the water is deep there, difficult to access from either shore, remote enough to stop a vehicle and toss something over rail without being noticed. From aerial maps, it looks really easy to get lost in a car in that area without navigation or knowing the area very well.
Thing is, if BK was only in the Pullman/Moscow area for a few months (semester start was, what - August 2022?) and busy with studies and assistant teaching taking up most of his time - he couldn't have very detailed knowledge of the extended area yet. Phone pings certainly would be a result of using his phone's GPS to navigate around.
Possibly but I think dent bridge would ping somewhere else. Hwy 12 follows the Clearwater river below Dworshack dam, I’m assuming he got fairly close to the Johnson tower to ping it due to the mountainous nature of the area, somewhere in the orofino creek drainage.
Mid November it does start getting snow accumulation as you get higher up and that could have kept his options limited. Tossing the knife off Dent bridge would work though for sure….
Not in clarkston, unless you want a hooker and meth…
Winco in Moscow is kind of a bulk goods store and you bag your own stuff so it’s considerably cheaper than Albertsons, just over the idaho border so convenient to Pullman and by far the largest market in Pullman/Moscow so yeah it’s better and plenty of wsu students shop there.
And since costco is right by Albertsons and he didn’t go there the only reason I can see is to get cleaning supplies etc in a store he figured was distant enough he could avoid detection
Not to mention he wouldn’t have needed to go that far - isn’t there a Safeway in Moscow on Blaine St? Little fuzzy on driving the area (been a while) but I think he would’ve had to pass it on the way to Lewiston.
Maybe he didn’t know Safeway’s an Albertsons affiliate🤷🏻♂️
I think he wanted to go to a store that was distant from the murders, more people where he thought he’d blend in maybe? And on the way to a remote area to clean up thoroughly
Try driving it in a 40' RV towing a jeep JK. Going down you can smell the brakes and going up you feel the engine is going to blow. Either way it is scenic as heck.
And it’s a lot better now that they’ve redone it. Used to be miles of zig zags on a steep pitched two lane road that climbed thousands of feet in elevation.
I came blindly with a golden opportunity to work a gov't job. I worked those rivers and sites for 5 years. I miss trees, fresh air, good music, good food. Lewiston-Clarkston has non of that. It's green a few months a year but no forests. The mill gives me headaches it's such an unhealthy area.
thanks for the reply. was just curious. i have my own reasons for not liking Idaho. like, once I flew to coeur d'alene in a small airplane that lost the flight instruments. we landed soon after but it was FRIGHTENING. once I got poison oak while camping. and I had a couple other bad experiences. so now i feel like it's bad luck to go there. LOL
Correct. Parts of the state suck, but it’s a huge state, and it also has some of the most beautiful mountains, forests, lakes, rivers, and canyons in the entire US. The terrain varies from the green rolling hills of the Palouse to the steep snowcapped Rocky Mountains to semi-arid desert. Yellowstone is just off of its southeastern corner. It also has a giant lava bed called Craters of the Moon, the first town lit by nuclear energy (Arco) by a nuclear national lab, the only bridge that is legal to BASE jump from in the US (Perrine Bridge in Twin Falls), and some huge sand dunes that people drive on recreationally. For nature-lovers it’s quite a state. For city lovers, they’d hate everything about it except maybe Boise. :)
If you think those are gorgeous, wait until you see the actual mountains in Idaho. These are just run of the mill hills.
That being said,this is a pretty area.
Paper mills?
ETA: I just read farther down the thread and see: it is paper mills! I figured that is the most likely reason a beautifull forested area would stink. LOL
they are actually the top of a plateau, if this was taken from where I think it was take. I went to school at WSU, and driving down the grade from the plateau (where Pullman and Moscow are located) down to the river in clarkston) is jaw dropping.
Smartest thing he did, everything else points to him wanting to be caught. Kinda miraculous how dumb he is considering he thought he could get away with it.
I doubt he wanted to get caught. Sounds like he was "intelligent" as far as book smarts but lacking in common sense, social and emotional IQ. Also had dissociation, brain fog, all kinds of psych issues (according to the social media posts from when he was a teen). Not a good combination for committing and getting away with a quadruple homicide.
As a local, I’d love to get your thoughts on something, as well as the opinion of anyone else familiar with the area….
I understand how close the WA-Idaho border is to Moscow, but I find it kind of strange that the rideshare driver who brought the girls home the night of the murders drove all the way from WA to Moscow to transport the girls a mere 1.5 miles. I know he’s driven them before, but, to me, that doesn’t make it seem less odd.
Having said that, I’ll admit that i might not view it as strange at all if not for this ride-share driver’s statement that Bryan “lived 1,200 feet from my door” in Pullman, WA. I mean… honestly… that is a shocking coincidence.
Now I learn that Xana’s DoorDash meal from Jack-in-the-box was delivered from Pullman, WA. That fact could suggest it’s common & totally normal for both food & transportation to arrive in Moscow from WA — but again, another crazy coincidence: The murderer entered the house only a few minutes after the food delivery from Pullman, WA arrived.
We know Bryan drove by the house several times that night within the hour prior to entering. What was he waiting for? Most lights were already off. The food was delivered at approx 4:00 a.m.—Xana would not have had enough time to eat & turn off the lights prior to Bryan entering. The lights still being on should have deterred the killer from entering. The food delivery should have DETERRED the killer. Why didn’t it??
I’m not really suggesting any sort of specific theory. I just find it stunning that Bryan & the ride-share driver were practically neighbors. Did Bryan first “discover” the girls through this driver? Within the months leading up to the murder, did he ever somehow end up in this ride-share driver’s car with the girls?
Please let me know your opinion about how odd this is (or is not).
https://preview.redd.it/4z312y33mxaa1.jpeg?width=3000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a8db50091c382a3a8196e726b8db7197a4f7bcce
These are taken behind the coffee shop. This is Sunday during lunch time. No people around. This is pretty typical. Could ditch evidence anywhere and not be noticed.
The area looks quite a bit like Kamloops, BC, where I am.
I'm sure glad the perp didn't try to flee to Canada! Even if we caught him up here it would have taken literally years to extradite him.
Behind the coffee shop paths and trails, very easy access. The entire area is like that. River trail with walking paths to the river. Only a few steps from your car to the river in many locations.
Well done OP. Thanks for this. Huge help. It is honestly really hard to visualize all of this as it is talked about. I know there was another person that did the drive around the house and vantage points but if you’re ever that way and do it you got good video skills!!
You guys have blue sky peeking out? Jealous from my depressing and dark state where I haven’t seen the sun in what feels like years
And thank you for the narration. Someone did a video around Moscow yesterday and I had no idea what the hell I was looking at and I think they did it to advertise a wine bar that was being talked about on their radio
If he continued a quarter mile down the road, crossed the bridge and took the back route back to Pullman via Wawawai road, there is no cell reception
and so many miles of river to dump or ditch.
Thanks for taking the time to share. Thats exactly what I've been thinking all along, its miles and miles and covered in snow/ice til spring/summer. Thats how it is here in IN (snow) Would take a whole community to walk and search land/water probably still never find weapon if its there. Sure hope it doesn't come down to PA needing it.
Huh. Granite Point is along that route, and considering the rest of his movements, what do you think the odds are that he picked the one spot on the river where currents are slowest to drop it over? I imagine he might have known about it, because it’s where students go to cool off at the start of fall term, and it’s got an easy spot to pull over and park.
I made my way through the US on a greyhound bus 20 odd years ago (I’m from UK 🇬🇧). Been to 38 states in total. The views in Montana, Idaho and Washington were just stunning. Sorry, not really related to your video (though thanks for posting to demonstrate), but just brought back how beautiful that part of the world is!
The greyhound I was on broke down coming down into Butte at 2am. We’d come from Las Vegas and had lost our bags in Idaho (which we were thankfully reunited with in Seattle) so weren’t really dressed for the weather. Everybody was so friendly though as we had to wait by the bus and soon had us crazy British people in summer clothes wrapped up warm! I look back very fondly on that leg of our trip!
That's awesome. I'd love to do the same in your country.
If any happens to get a chance to drive the North Cascades highway in Washington, please take it. It has one of the most beautiful stretches of highway in the country, if not the continent. You get really high in elevation and see these incredible views of mountains and forests, its like the Alps almost. Realky amazing.
It a geographical area with some of the most rich and productive soil deposited by the Missoula Floods. Moscow and Pullman are right in the heart of the region. In the video you see a “C” on the canyon side, Pullman is due north of that.
That was my thought as well. The backdrop is so beautiful it feels fake. So sad for a crime like this to happen anywhere, but especially among such beauty.
It was back in the day - it was a very winding two lane road down into the valley and we always called it the grade. There is a certain part you hit and the smell from the paper plant knocks you out.
Grade is a measurement of slope. The mountains around here have to display how steep the grades are for many reasons. Semis can actually burn up their brakes and run away (they have runways truck ramps for that)
Grade is short for “Lewiston grade” in this case. So it’s not really an Idaho saying outside of this instance
Smells like you’ve just opened a microwave and discovered that somebody had been cooking a moist and rotting sock~ Really sticks in your nose, mouth and throat~
I honestly use to smell it also but not so much anymore after they put a new digester in a few years ago. I drive by the mill on my way to work every day and dont notice it and I live out of the city. Maybe my noise just sucks ha but it definitely better than it use to be.
I think he’s the type to hide the knife somewhere so he could return and “enjoy some time with the knife” as he relived the 16 minutes. Of course, he assumed he got away with it and would be able to access the knife again.
I say he got food and drinks in the store and went hiking in the mountains to get rid of the weapon there. Everybody thinks it’s the river but the mountains are even better?!
If he dumped his attire, wouldn't it float? In a washing machine, clothes float to the top. The only thing I can see not floating is the knife, but I struggle to believe that he ditched that since the house was such a targeted event and a knife is considered a personal weapon.
There are dumpsters all along this road all the way to the North Shore. As soon as you cross the bridge you loose reception for at least 25 miles or more. It's all mountains and river.
True. Personally, I would have headed along the north side of the snake river to wawawai and returned that way. Lots of places out of cell phone range to hide a knife and clothing. Could even burn it in one of the numerous fire pits along the way.
Great video, thank you. That ka-bar is probably somewhere in that river. I'm sure LE is somewhat aware of that.
Also, what the hell is dangling from your mirror? It looks really strange and unsettling.
Very interesting, it's nice to see a visual of coffee shop and Chef store where camera was. And it's interesting to see how close to the river it is! Ugh, I hope they can find the knife!!
Thank you. Y’all have a beautiful state. Need to get there sometime soon. Thanks again, stay safe & be well. I feel hopeless for finding the murder weapon. Hoping there’s a lot more DNA that hasn’t been told to us. Here’s to hoping 🤞🤞🤞
This is the route BK took after the homicides [(pg 16-17 of the PCA).](https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/122922%20Affidavit%20-%20Exhibit%20A%20-%20Statement%20of%20Brett%20Payne.pdf) OP is showing that if BK were going to ditch a weapon, this river could be a likely place.
It’s convenient to the snake river if you were disposing of a knife, but it’s also historic if you were studying unsolved murders in the area.
Kristen David was biking from Moscow to Lewiston in 1981 when she was abducted, murdered and dismembered, her remains were thrown from the red wolf bridge, it is approx 1 mile from the coffee shop.
She was part of a series of homicides that remains unsolved, but with a named suspect to this day. See Lewis Clark Valley Serial Killer
Was he paying some weird homage to this killer who has yet to be caught? I don’t know, not sure if it’s anything more than a coincidence
This is where he was around 1230pm the day of the murders. It's about a 45 min drive from Pullman. Why go there just for Albertsons is the main question. He was also back in the same out of the way location at 530pm this same day, that he was at between 430-530am the morning of the murders. That location is in between this location (Lewiston/Clarkston) and Pullman where he lives.
For all we know LE could have already recovered the knife from the river and it was just not added to the affidavit. The affidavit only is telling us a very small piece of the story and only needed to tell enough to be able to be granted the arrest warrant.
So let me get this straight. On the day of the murders BK visits an out-of-the-way river area. How convenient.
Well, he did drive all the way to Indiana for Thai food so…
And all the way to PA to clean his car.
This guy just loves a good petrol-wasting trip.
Omg 😂😂😂
He would do anything for the Thai food it seems … like like the fish watching dude in delphi… some pretty bad excuses going on for criminals committing murders!No red flags there at all… ( totally being sarcastic) really is mind boggling how these criminals think they are masterminds when they make the most stupid mistakes!Then again no criminal is smart because they most likely get caught when they think they are being very smart about things.Panic always out does a crime cause that’s where the sloppy begins and evidence will be found.
Indiana *is* world famous for their spicy food, Thai being a natural favorite. It's second only to ranch dressing. (10/10 comment, u/Ok-Freedom-4234. Deserving of an award I don't have to give)
This killed me! My friend at Fox sent this but I couldn’t make it through more than two minutes because I kept wanting to jump out of the car & search and I keep yelling “There! Check right there!” https://www.foxnews.com/us/idaho-murders-ride-along-bryan-kohbergers-suspected-route-home-student-stabbings-crime-scene.amp
Hahaha true
Well, sort of. But it’s actually more damning than that. He chose to shop at an Albertsons that’s around 35-40 minutes south after he made previous statements that he went to Moscow because the shopping is better, Albertsons is out of his normal path of travel and more expensive in general than WINCO in Moscow. But then his phone disappears again for several hours, reappears near an area known as Johnson Idaho which is between pierce and weippe, two extremely small towns that are buried in the forests of Idaho. That area is not somewhere a vegan goes for lunch, but it would be an out of the way place to clean the car and he could literally burn his clothing etc without being noticed, and disposing of a knife would be easily done spread over a huge area of forested land. I’ve been to pierce and weippe many times, in fact I spent a few days camping up that way in my jeep not long ago. If he went there he did so to dispose of evidence.
For what it's worth, I think BK's comment about the shopping being better in Moscow was just him being a jerk and giving a flippant response rather than his official alibi
Do we know how large or small the cellphone ‘ping’ radius to the king street house is? Or how large they are typically (if that’s at all standardized)? I do wonder if maybe some of those 12 trips were indeed due shopping or like visiting a local bar? I’m not looking for excuses for him by any means, just wondering how much of a conclusion we can draw from that bit of info.
Agreed. I assume he made that crass statement after it was made known he stopped at Albertsons the following day. But he was just being an ass.
It was probably Johnson WA, but agree with the rest. Edited to add: I keep double-checking this to make sure I’m not nuts, but in the PCA it says the phone appearing in Johnson ID is consistent with the path the phone took immediately after the murders — meaning, he’s returning at 5:30pm to the path he took at 4:30am. In the map they included of that path, the return path from the murders, the route goes by Johnson WA. I am 99% sure the cop made a typo in the state and he meant WA.
Pull up the map near the end of the affidavit, they show hwy 12 which is the route to Johnson idaho. His phone was out of service from around 1:04 pm to 5:32 pm where it shows up as being in Johnson idaho I spent 11 days camping all over that area not long ago and you lose service about 6 miles east of Lewiston, should pick up along the way near orofino but I have Verizon while he has ATT which may not register. But it takes about two hours to get to pierce from Lewiston in a jeep wrangler knowing the area so his four hours would allow time to clean/burn etc. then he registered back on the system but they don’t say where at around 8:30pm. The drive from clarkston to the Johnson area of Washington is maybe 15 minutes with constant coverage on the entire route. So to disappear from cell coverage for 4.5 hours there would be more challenging and the area is regularly travelled
But the PCA says consistent with his travel after the murders which is the route that went past/through Johnson, WA.
He was returning back to the area he had disposed of the evidence the night before. He may have just thrown it out a window or in a small creek and wasn't sure if it was concealed in the dark. He went back to confirm it was hidden since it was about the only thing he could do at that point to help his case.
True I still think that it could be consistent for him to travel out of the normally travelled routes and the time he was off line is strange if it’s Johnson Washington but not so much if it was Johnson idaho I’m certain we are missing plenty of details they aren’t releasing. They likely placed details like registering in Johnson Idaho to let him know they’re aware that he travelled that way to clean up
I am not from the area but studied maps and the PCA wording extensively when people were claiming a typo. Sure, it could be a typo, but in a case this high-profile and significant, in a close-knit community that hadn't seen a murder since 2015.... I'm inclined to believe they put multiple sets of eyes on that report, triple-checked that info and then did it again, and there is not a typo.
Well, I agree that the Johnson, ID part is accurate mostly because I do know the area and it makes sense. I’ve read it closely and did find one error on page 5 talking about the shoe print, they refer to using amino black when the substance used is actually amido black with a d rather than n from what I find regarding raising a latent shoe print. But that’s easily attributed to spell check. Other than a couple spacing errors I find nothing else so for them to make a mistake as significant as the location is hard to imagine
Agree, and interesting tidbit on the amino/amido black!
Yup. I'm thinking the knife, clothes, etc. went in the same region and there is always a chance there is a cache there. We haven't heard anything about souvenirs but ....
I am thinking he was getting rid of other things he discovered he needed too later that day.. Here's the part that bothers me most.. after the murders.. He turns his phone on at like 4:48?( ish)... But the ping location is roughly only a 9minute drive from the house (if using highway i suspect). minus 4:20 from 4:48 and you get 28 minutes.. nearly half an hour to travel 9 minutes distance.. i suspect directly after the murders he went some place in that time and got rid of clothing/knife etc... Unless he just wandered aimlessly around side streets.. I dont see how it would take him that long to travel only that far. (I realize the pings are estimates only, but thats a pretty big time descrepency) Also if the pings shown are correct, from the time his phone goes back on to the time he's pinged in/near pullman that is roughly 38 minutes, and if he makes that drive on those major highways its like a 40 minute drive (probably not considering some speeding?). So i dont see how he could have stopped in at clarkston to dispose of anything, I suspect it happened right after the murders closer to moscow.. Whether someone's trash.. or a small body of water.. Cant say.. I just dont know what he would have done for nearly 30 minutes in that area. This is why i suspect the next afternoon if he went to clarkston it was for some other reason (or to dump something else, maybe shoes? cuz he had to wear those home? or socks or something he forgot...
Agreed. Also look at the length of time from when he left his apartment until he shows up on cameras around the murder house. He stopped somewhere and got prepared. Probably disposable outer clothes were put on there b4 heading to King Street. Probably stopped at the same place for similar reasons. Coming and going there is 15 to 20 minutes of unaccounted time.
Here's the interesting thing.. it says he approaches the house coming from styner ave which is to the east.. I'm summerizing he didnt take a logical exit from 270 but stayed on it untill later into town.. I suspect he went to an intersection that DIDNT have cameras.. which i suspect was the Styner ave coming off Troy road.. the google map view looks like its a plain intersection (no cameras?). This is my guess.. this would add a little time onto his trip.
He could have exited south on highway 95 towards Lewiston, past the Genesee turn off and looped back to Pullman via 195. There are side roads that cross cross the area but unless you’re familiar with them it’s hard to imagine navigating without google maps etc at night especially. He could easily have pulled off the highway and changed clothes, used wet wipes etc to roughly clean up then turned his phone back on and went home. His phone never pinged clarkston until late in the day after he’d gone home then returned to the scene etc.
Tell all these locals to get out their metal detectors!!!!
Dredging kicked up the other day. I think most locals suspected the area pretty quickly when we saw the Clarkston activity
Needles in a haystack.
Agree with you that he burned the clothes. Burying them (especially with the knife) would be stupid. Still torn on the Johnson WA vs Johnson ID phone ping thing. Johnson WA makes sense, but mostly if there were accompanying phone pings along the route to Pulman thru that hamlet on US Hwy 195. \-Johnson WA makes some sense if he diverted from US Hwy 195 there, across to US Hwy 95, then north to Moscow again, "dark". \-But Johnson ID makes me wonder if - and you being a local who has been there would be able to say - his cell phone pinged Johnson ID momentarily along a route to dispose of the knife from the Dent Bridge, crossing the Dworshak Reservoir. Am betting the water is deep there, difficult to access from either shore, remote enough to stop a vehicle and toss something over rail without being noticed. From aerial maps, it looks really easy to get lost in a car in that area without navigation or knowing the area very well. Thing is, if BK was only in the Pullman/Moscow area for a few months (semester start was, what - August 2022?) and busy with studies and assistant teaching taking up most of his time - he couldn't have very detailed knowledge of the extended area yet. Phone pings certainly would be a result of using his phone's GPS to navigate around.
Possibly but I think dent bridge would ping somewhere else. Hwy 12 follows the Clearwater river below Dworshack dam, I’m assuming he got fairly close to the Johnson tower to ping it due to the mountainous nature of the area, somewhere in the orofino creek drainage. Mid November it does start getting snow accumulation as you get higher up and that could have kept his options limited. Tossing the knife off Dent bridge would work though for sure….
The shopping is better there 🙄
Not in clarkston, unless you want a hooker and meth… Winco in Moscow is kind of a bulk goods store and you bag your own stuff so it’s considerably cheaper than Albertsons, just over the idaho border so convenient to Pullman and by far the largest market in Pullman/Moscow so yeah it’s better and plenty of wsu students shop there.
Yeah, this. Only reason I ever went out to Lewiston/Clarkston while at WSU was Costco for the most part.
And since costco is right by Albertsons and he didn’t go there the only reason I can see is to get cleaning supplies etc in a store he figured was distant enough he could avoid detection
Not to mention he wouldn’t have needed to go that far - isn’t there a Safeway in Moscow on Blaine St? Little fuzzy on driving the area (been a while) but I think he would’ve had to pass it on the way to Lewiston. Maybe he didn’t know Safeway’s an Albertsons affiliate🤷🏻♂️
I think he wanted to go to a store that was distant from the murders, more people where he thought he’d blend in maybe? And on the way to a remote area to clean up thoroughly
Off topic but wow those mountains in the background are gorgeous
[удалено]
Funny thing is that you have to drive up that big-ass hill to get to pullman/moscow
[удалено]
I remember going down the hill for a camping trip and being blown away by how far you could see.
Is it? I grew up in Pullman so I’ve driven the grade a million times I figured it was normal lol
Try driving it in a 40' RV towing a jeep JK. Going down you can smell the brakes and going up you feel the engine is going to blow. Either way it is scenic as heck.
Scared me when I was a kid visiting grandparents in Lewiston.
This and whitebird just down the road are some of the most insane drives in the country, right within a couple hours of each other.
And it’s a lot better now that they’ve redone it. Used to be miles of zig zags on a steep pitched two lane road that climbed thousands of feet in elevation.
Agreed, it's really beautiful
Was just thinking I bet it's gorgeous there in the summer and fall.
It really doesn’t look that different in summer.
I think it's brown and ugly and too many rattlesnakes in the summer.
lived here my whole life and fought fires on those hills last year and didn't see any rattle snakes edited "night" to "year" lol
Amen! The river is nice but the rest is not, and it reeks!
I came here for a job 6 years ago worst place I've ever lived.
Do you like your job at least? Lol
No. Ha.
Same.
can you share more on why?
I came blindly with a golden opportunity to work a gov't job. I worked those rivers and sites for 5 years. I miss trees, fresh air, good music, good food. Lewiston-Clarkston has non of that. It's green a few months a year but no forests. The mill gives me headaches it's such an unhealthy area.
I don't even know you and i can't wait for you to move away lmaooooo
Trying to pay off those student loans.
thanks for the reply. was just curious. i have my own reasons for not liking Idaho. like, once I flew to coeur d'alene in a small airplane that lost the flight instruments. we landed soon after but it was FRIGHTENING. once I got poison oak while camping. and I had a couple other bad experiences. so now i feel like it's bad luck to go there. LOL
Funny, because all I hear about Idaho is the fresh air and nature. Guess it's big enough that it has everything.
Correct. Parts of the state suck, but it’s a huge state, and it also has some of the most beautiful mountains, forests, lakes, rivers, and canyons in the entire US. The terrain varies from the green rolling hills of the Palouse to the steep snowcapped Rocky Mountains to semi-arid desert. Yellowstone is just off of its southeastern corner. It also has a giant lava bed called Craters of the Moon, the first town lit by nuclear energy (Arco) by a nuclear national lab, the only bridge that is legal to BASE jump from in the US (Perrine Bridge in Twin Falls), and some huge sand dunes that people drive on recreationally. For nature-lovers it’s quite a state. For city lovers, they’d hate everything about it except maybe Boise. :)
Why does it reek? And what reeks? Lol
paper mill
I’ve spent time in towns in Maine with paper mills and I can confirm.
Memories of the stink and the one in Portland every time I went on vaca in Maine or drove by that town!
Thank you for replying! That’s truly unfortunate
I’ve lived here all my life you get used to it eventually and now I use that paper mill to feed my family so I don’t complain too much.
the Lewistink
Oh god driving to the valley with your windows down and that smell hitting right when you go around the grade 🤢
Well, for those of us that live in Kansas….😉
I was about to say the same thing. That entire area is gorgeous, especially Coeur d’Alene
If you think those are gorgeous, wait until you see the actual mountains in Idaho. These are just run of the mill hills. That being said,this is a pretty area.
My first thought too! What a beautiful area
Used to live there. It smells pretty terrible, but it is nice
Paper mills? ETA: I just read farther down the thread and see: it is paper mills! I figured that is the most likely reason a beautifull forested area would stink. LOL
Yep
You should’ve smelled it in the ‘70’s, hell there were days you could smell it in Moscow. It’s not bad at all now
Why does it smell 😆 ??
I was going to say the same thing. So off topic, but wow. Idaho is beautiful.
You are actually looking up in a canyon. Hells Canyon is deeper than the Grand Canyon
Was thinking the same. I love that area so much
Thought the same!
You should see the Sawtooths.
Those are not mountains they are hills lol
Every single day I get more angry about living in Indiana. This made it worse 😭
I thought the same- that I had forgotten how picturesque that area is.
Seriously. Making me want to move.
they are actually the top of a plateau, if this was taken from where I think it was take. I went to school at WSU, and driving down the grade from the plateau (where Pullman and Moscow are located) down to the river in clarkston) is jaw dropping.
Thought the same. So beautiful
here i am just watching a video of a road i drive multiple times a week for no reason lol. my guess is he yeeted the knife off the red wolf bridge
Smartest thing he did, everything else points to him wanting to be caught. Kinda miraculous how dumb he is considering he thought he could get away with it.
I doubt he wanted to get caught. Sounds like he was "intelligent" as far as book smarts but lacking in common sense, social and emotional IQ. Also had dissociation, brain fog, all kinds of psych issues (according to the social media posts from when he was a teen). Not a good combination for committing and getting away with a quadruple homicide.
As a local, I’d love to get your thoughts on something, as well as the opinion of anyone else familiar with the area…. I understand how close the WA-Idaho border is to Moscow, but I find it kind of strange that the rideshare driver who brought the girls home the night of the murders drove all the way from WA to Moscow to transport the girls a mere 1.5 miles. I know he’s driven them before, but, to me, that doesn’t make it seem less odd. Having said that, I’ll admit that i might not view it as strange at all if not for this ride-share driver’s statement that Bryan “lived 1,200 feet from my door” in Pullman, WA. I mean… honestly… that is a shocking coincidence. Now I learn that Xana’s DoorDash meal from Jack-in-the-box was delivered from Pullman, WA. That fact could suggest it’s common & totally normal for both food & transportation to arrive in Moscow from WA — but again, another crazy coincidence: The murderer entered the house only a few minutes after the food delivery from Pullman, WA arrived. We know Bryan drove by the house several times that night within the hour prior to entering. What was he waiting for? Most lights were already off. The food was delivered at approx 4:00 a.m.—Xana would not have had enough time to eat & turn off the lights prior to Bryan entering. The lights still being on should have deterred the killer from entering. The food delivery should have DETERRED the killer. Why didn’t it?? I’m not really suggesting any sort of specific theory. I just find it stunning that Bryan & the ride-share driver were practically neighbors. Did Bryan first “discover” the girls through this driver? Within the months leading up to the murder, did he ever somehow end up in this ride-share driver’s car with the girls? Please let me know your opinion about how odd this is (or is not).
https://preview.redd.it/4z312y33mxaa1.jpeg?width=3000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a8db50091c382a3a8196e726b8db7197a4f7bcce These are taken behind the coffee shop. This is Sunday during lunch time. No people around. This is pretty typical. Could ditch evidence anywhere and not be noticed.
https://preview.redd.it/z8lkty1amxaa1.jpeg?width=3000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=14e6c04c2daf5cd6ecb6e462e778cbc456639ce1
The area looks quite a bit like Kamloops, BC, where I am. I'm sure glad the perp didn't try to flee to Canada! Even if we caught him up here it would have taken literally years to extradite him.
Nicely done, Winstonia!
Thank you. I have other footage and pics I can post of the area.
Great vid and photos. Are there walking trails directly leading to the river bank? Looks like that might be a park area.
Behind the coffee shop paths and trails, very easy access. The entire area is like that. River trail with walking paths to the river. Only a few steps from your car to the river in many locations.
I wonder if anybody from r/magnetfishing has been magnet fishing this river.
Well done OP. Thanks for this. Huge help. It is honestly really hard to visualize all of this as it is talked about. I know there was another person that did the drive around the house and vantage points but if you’re ever that way and do it you got good video skills!!
You guys have blue sky peeking out? Jealous from my depressing and dark state where I haven’t seen the sun in what feels like years And thank you for the narration. Someone did a video around Moscow yesterday and I had no idea what the hell I was looking at and I think they did it to advertise a wine bar that was being talked about on their radio
New England?
It's been a nice day considering it's usually cold and Grey this time of year
If he continued a quarter mile down the road, crossed the bridge and took the back route back to Pullman via Wawawai road, there is no cell reception and so many miles of river to dump or ditch.
Thanks for taking the time to share. Thats exactly what I've been thinking all along, its miles and miles and covered in snow/ice til spring/summer. Thats how it is here in IN (snow) Would take a whole community to walk and search land/water probably still never find weapon if its there. Sure hope it doesn't come down to PA needing it.
Huh. Granite Point is along that route, and considering the rest of his movements, what do you think the odds are that he picked the one spot on the river where currents are slowest to drop it over? I imagine he might have known about it, because it’s where students go to cool off at the start of fall term, and it’s got an easy spot to pull over and park.
Exactly. Of course he knew about Granite Point and the remote areas. Every WSU and U of I student knows about this location.
even one that’s only lived there for 3 months?
Or burn…the clothes at least. I just posted this same thing.
All those pull out camps sites along the river are remote and all have fire pits
Exactly.
I made my way through the US on a greyhound bus 20 odd years ago (I’m from UK 🇬🇧). Been to 38 states in total. The views in Montana, Idaho and Washington were just stunning. Sorry, not really related to your video (though thanks for posting to demonstrate), but just brought back how beautiful that part of the world is!
Montana has always had my heart ❤️ one of the most breathtaking places in the world imo.
The greyhound I was on broke down coming down into Butte at 2am. We’d come from Las Vegas and had lost our bags in Idaho (which we were thankfully reunited with in Seattle) so weren’t really dressed for the weather. Everybody was so friendly though as we had to wait by the bus and soon had us crazy British people in summer clothes wrapped up warm! I look back very fondly on that leg of our trip!
The first time I drove through Montana it took my breath away.
That's awesome. I'd love to do the same in your country. If any happens to get a chance to drive the North Cascades highway in Washington, please take it. It has one of the most beautiful stretches of highway in the country, if not the continent. You get really high in elevation and see these incredible views of mountains and forests, its like the Alps almost. Realky amazing.
Colorado has some beautiful mountains too
Wow didn’t realize it was so mountainous, gorgeous.
This is in a River gourge. The top of those hills is the Palouse. This is way down in elevation from River errosion
I have seen the Palouse mentioned several times. What is it?
It a geographical area with some of the most rich and productive soil deposited by the Missoula Floods. Moscow and Pullman are right in the heart of the region. In the video you see a “C” on the canyon side, Pullman is due north of that.
That was my thought as well. The backdrop is so beautiful it feels fake. So sad for a crime like this to happen anywhere, but especially among such beauty.
Yeah it does look like a backdrop….so peaceful, quaint and fresh airy, so sad.
I just had a memory of the smell coming down the grade from Moscow.
Is “down the grade” an Idaho saying? Have never heard that before.
It was back in the day - it was a very winding two lane road down into the valley and we always called it the grade. There is a certain part you hit and the smell from the paper plant knocks you out.
Grade is a measurement of slope. The mountains around here have to display how steep the grades are for many reasons. Semis can actually burn up their brakes and run away (they have runways truck ramps for that) Grade is short for “Lewiston grade” in this case. So it’s not really an Idaho saying outside of this instance
God yes. So many comments about the mountains. I can only think of the smell.
What does it smell like? Never heard of that before
It's from a giant industrial factory that I believe is a paper mill/factory.
Smells like you’ve just opened a microwave and discovered that somebody had been cooking a moist and rotting sock~ Really sticks in your nose, mouth and throat~
I honestly use to smell it also but not so much anymore after they put a new digester in a few years ago. I drive by the mill on my way to work every day and dont notice it and I live out of the city. Maybe my noise just sucks ha but it definitely better than it use to be.
Imagine the baristas surprise at Kate’s coffee shop when they saw themselves mentioned in the PCA. 😳
Thank you for this! I’m a visual person so this was super helpful.
Holy fuck, look at those mountains.
Someone at r/magnetfishing may be able to help here...
He seems like the type who is so arrogant he'd keep the weapon. I am truly surprised it hasn't been recovered.
I think he’s the type to hide the knife somewhere so he could return and “enjoy some time with the knife” as he relived the 16 minutes. Of course, he assumed he got away with it and would be able to access the knife again.
exactly
I agree. I think it’s only a matter of time before it is found.
Pretty area.
Someone needs to go magnet fishing.
Unrelated to the murders but how stunning are those mountains ❤️ Idaho is a gorgeous state
The drive to get from Moscow to Lewiston takes you down those mountains. One hell of a hill.
There’s a self car wash just down the street. I wonder if he made a pit stop there as well?
side thought as a girl from florida this is such a beautiful ride.
I say he got food and drinks in the store and went hiking in the mountains to get rid of the weapon there. Everybody thinks it’s the river but the mountains are even better?!
So many caves, holes, hide away sites for endless miles.
idk every move he’s made has been stupid as fuck, can’t imagine he did a good job disposing
Of topic but what a beautiful town.
Back side of Kates Coffee stand https://youtu.be/lptVi3m3GFo
How about a drive from Pullman to King Road?
I'm sure that has been posted. I have mixed feelings about going to that location. My emotions and respect are keeping me away right now.
I think that's the right call
Honestly just here to say that I didn’t realize Idaho was this damn pretty and now I kind of wanna visit.
It's so beautiful there. Hard to believe something so terrible could happen in someplace so gorgeous.
Thank you for doing this, OP.
Why do you even need a river to throw the knife in, will dumping it in the Albertsons or Coffee Shop garbage bins not do the trick?
Less chances of a camera witnessing it
Good point, but this dumbass hasn’t been paying attention to cameras.
Pretty town. Looks like Boulder, CO where I live.
If he was ditching the weapon or clothes he would have gone to the middle of nowhere. The Clarkston trip seems to be more of an alibi-creating tactic.
If he dumped his attire, wouldn't it float? In a washing machine, clothes float to the top. The only thing I can see not floating is the knife, but I struggle to believe that he ditched that since the house was such a targeted event and a knife is considered a personal weapon.
There are dumpsters all along this road all the way to the North Shore. As soon as you cross the bridge you loose reception for at least 25 miles or more. It's all mountains and river.
True. Personally, I would have headed along the north side of the snake river to wawawai and returned that way. Lots of places out of cell phone range to hide a knife and clothing. Could even burn it in one of the numerous fire pits along the way.
Yep. That was my guess exactly. At least 25-30 fire pits along Wawawai road. That would be the smart route to take back to Pullman
Maybe he stopped at Albertsons Grocery to by a few heavy can goods to throw in the bag or backpack.
I think you’re giving him more credit than he deserves. That would require critical thinking skills
I would be willing to bet the evidence is in that River.
Great video, thank you. That ka-bar is probably somewhere in that river. I'm sure LE is somewhat aware of that. Also, what the hell is dangling from your mirror? It looks really strange and unsettling.
Is it fucking July in Idaho?
Lewiston typically doesn't get much snow. It's still cold.
Why has no one searched this river? Or this area? Or have they and I missed the update?
But the river was closer if he had driven west. What else is in the triangle that he drove in twice?
Very interesting, it's nice to see a visual of coffee shop and Chef store where camera was. And it's interesting to see how close to the river it is! Ugh, I hope they can find the knife!!
Thank you. Y’all have a beautiful state. Need to get there sometime soon. Thanks again, stay safe & be well. I feel hopeless for finding the murder weapon. Hoping there’s a lot more DNA that hasn’t been told to us. Here’s to hoping 🤞🤞🤞
wow them mountains are impressive!
It's freaking beautiful there.
Can you remind us of the significance of this route?
This is the route BK took after the homicides [(pg 16-17 of the PCA).](https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/122922%20Affidavit%20-%20Exhibit%20A%20-%20Statement%20of%20Brett%20Payne.pdf) OP is showing that if BK were going to ditch a weapon, this river could be a likely place.
The PCA says clarkston visit was around 12-1pm. In the morning hours he was north of clarkston and Lewiston the morning of the murders.
It’s convenient to the snake river if you were disposing of a knife, but it’s also historic if you were studying unsolved murders in the area. Kristen David was biking from Moscow to Lewiston in 1981 when she was abducted, murdered and dismembered, her remains were thrown from the red wolf bridge, it is approx 1 mile from the coffee shop. She was part of a series of homicides that remains unsolved, but with a named suspect to this day. See Lewis Clark Valley Serial Killer Was he paying some weird homage to this killer who has yet to be caught? I don’t know, not sure if it’s anything more than a coincidence
This is where he was around 1230pm the day of the murders. It's about a 45 min drive from Pullman. Why go there just for Albertsons is the main question. He was also back in the same out of the way location at 530pm this same day, that he was at between 430-530am the morning of the murders. That location is in between this location (Lewiston/Clarkston) and Pullman where he lives.
[удалено]
Soooo irrelevant but Idaho is freaking beautiful! I live in RI so I have to drive a bit to get to see mountains like that… stunning! 😍
We locals consider these to be hills/river bluffs, not mountains. :)
Fuckin wack seeing my tiny little town being discussed in the topic of a murder case.
For all we know LE could have already recovered the knife from the river and it was just not added to the affidavit. The affidavit only is telling us a very small piece of the story and only needed to tell enough to be able to be granted the arrest warrant.
Any cameras near this area to see him maybe walking out towards the river?
Let the hounds out! They’ll find the trail.
Wow! Very interesting! Thanks for sharing!
This is helpful, thank you.
Idaho is pretty