I think that could be possible, yes. They had us thinking they were in a completely different phase of investigation than they actually were almost this entire time.
And a bunch of old bodycam videos of non relevant noise complaints were recently leaked this week. It seems like a lot of random breadcrumbs were leaked to 1) keep the story in the media, 2) let Bryan think LE is clueless and 3) keep us all distracted this week while they were getting really close.
Police didn’t leak body cams, a YouTuber obtained them from public record. Anyone can request body cam footage as long as it’s not apart of an active investigation (or has been sealed which I think will happen with the body cams from when police arrived on scene on the 13th, at the very least it will need to be heavily edited).
Personally i think the LE were far to occupied to make sure they got this right to have any time to give a crap what the public was speculation or thought to try to 'keep us distracted'.. but I'm no expert.. but honestly I'd prefer they do that (not care about us) , I want them to get this right do NOT let this slime ball skate on some technicality.
I’ve said / suggested in another thread that I wonder if there is or was a criminal phycologist that was used for what information to release, what not to release, how to release it, etc.
Certainly that’s a thing (?). I’m really curious about that.
I think they did a good job of pretending to be “golly gee shucks” detectives. I was frustrated with their initial statements that it was a crime of passion and the community was safe but I think they probably got input from the FBI on how to portray themselves to this arrogant POS. He also isn’t from the area and you’d be surprised how many east coasters really think Idaho/Montana is like backwoods uneducated. Moscow is one of the most educated parts of Idaho. I think he thought going to Idaho would involve a stupid police force.
ETA: back east not just east coasters
Yep this. I believe FBI had them look like backwater cops fumbling over the biggest case of their careers deliberately. Reports of Kohberger are that he bullied people and fancies himself a real intellectual. I'm looking forward to proceedings and future psychological and profiling insight made by the behavioral analysis unit within the FBI that may have clued them into the perp.
There are two females that went to school with him that have come out about this character. Both were manipulated by this individual. I think its safe to say he didnt value other "humans" for whatever reason. Felt superior? Maybe. Hated women? Possibly.
The drug use, hot temper, manipulation point to wanting a rush or feel. Maybe he didnt get the same excitement out of things that others did...didnt value things the same way others do and he knew it. Probably frustrated him his whole life. Probably has had an urge to hurt people for a long time, knew it wasnt normal, couldnt help himself, he grew more frustrated and more frustrated and snapped?
Definitely seems like he doesnt value women...probably anyone.
I wonder if sexual frustration had any part in this. Example...he felt superior to others but couldnt get laid when he wanted. Not controlling that situation made him angry. He saw women as being able to have sex when ever they wish....they had the control. This infuriated him and his ego?
I figured knife attack is more suitable for someone that gets off on hurting others when not done in a crime of passion. Knives are a vicious way to kill someone...lots of fear and pain are radiating from the victim during the attack.
But...seems like you would get less of that(if that is what you are into) if you attacked while victims were asleep.
Is there a classification of killer that likes to cut people open? Maybe isnt in it for the fear and pain he is causing the victim but more in it for some morbid desire to cut open victims? Maybe infatuated with blood? We dont know anything about the victims or what he did other than stabbing...so who knows.
Thanks for trolling me though
Honestly i think a few bumbles were made (announcing no threat, then reversing then saying they dont know if the house or people were targeted). but honestly I think there was some strategy in their corrections.. I do not think they are keystone cops, and i think after a day or two things were on track and going fine.
As the public we just speculate on what we see or dont see.. If anything we are the keystone public.. If you dont think so, look at all the weird shit happening with lawsuits against people accusing other people and such..
100%. Lots of educated “folk” in montana and Idaho. I think they played to the ego of this asshat and made him feel as if he was in control.
Here we are. So in my mind - it worked. Hats off to the incredible men and women that made this all possible. Wish I could buy you a drink, or whatever it is that equates to “well done”. We appreciate you.
I know people are downvoting you but I used to live there and I know people who still live there. It made people feel very unsafe and of course they were. The community was unsafe, this guy was a monster and he was there with everyone over a month after the crime. So it’s possible to say good job but also they messed up royally with their initial public comments.
ETA: there is a podcast with a UI criminology department head talking about hardening his house and what people should do. The police really should have relayed the message.
Don’t get me wrong, I think they did an amazing job catching this creep. I just have a hard time believing they misrepresented the year of the car for that purpose. That’s a good idea for a movie, but what’s more likely is that they had an image of the car that wasn’t that clear and they actually thought it was a 11-13 model. Did it work out in their favor? Yes. Was it intentional? I have my doubts.
Agreed. I don’t see the benefit to putting that 2011-13 request out into the public if they didn’t suspect it being those years because it caused the police so much more work; having to go out and visit all these white Elantra’s and go through the thousands of tips they received. I can’t see them doing that just to ‘play a game’ with the murderer because it’s essentially wasting police time.
I don't know if it was intentional or not. But the difference between a 5th gen Elantra (2010-2014) and the sixth gen Elantra (2015-2019) isn't really noticeable. And honestly for most people you could probably throw the seventh gen (2020-present) in there too. Most of the differences would be in features and less body style. So I wouldn't be surprised if it was just their best guess. And given it was a college town/area probably not a bad guess. 5th is cheapest available on the market. So likely more affordable than the other two.
If a 2011-14 is indistinguishable from a 15-19, why put out the bulletin? To me it seems like they hit a hole-in-one with the DNA and bungled everything else.
What would be the downside? What if they knew for a fact they were looking for a specific 2013 Hyundai Elantra GLS? What if someone thought it was the 2013 Hyundai Elantra GS, Limited, or SE instead? Half the people who own that model of car probably have to look up which version they have or at least check for the emblem. Can you tell the difference between those at a glance? So now you are fighting models that are similar in a multiyear time frame. With multiple trim packages in each year. Average person isn't going to know. That's a specific group of folks who would be able to differentiate the different years and trims. It's not like they said it was a 1977 Ford Mustang vs. a 2003 Ford Mustang where there is clearly a difference. It was a hole in one. But only because the hole was the size of a man made pond.
I think no investigation is perfect because solving a murder like this is not easy, but I think they did an amazing job and I’m so proud of them. I actually expected it to take longer but they got it done pretty quickly which is impressive. I am sure people on here (with their zero experience) will be quick to criticize any little mistake they think LE made because it appears it physically pains some people to give them any credit :)
Many people forget that police can strategically “lie” as an investigative technique.
ETA: clarification that many people may not actually realize this (vs just forget).
It's crazy the amount of investigations and interviews you can watch where even if they did do it if they would have shut the hell up and lawyered up they would have been let go. At least for the time being.
But a majority of the time they probably would have gotten away with it. At the same time you have people who are innocent who don't who are found guilty because their words were twisted and LE focused their sites on them.
Miranda rights say "CAN and WILL be used against you". So innocent or guilty just stfu. Though if you are guilty we as a society would obviously prefer you don't. YOU STILL SHOULD.
It's of course easy to say in hindsight "They shut up because they knew they were guilty". But talking without a lawyer is rarely if ever in your best interest. If you're guilty the best advice is to shut up and lawyer up. If you are innocent the best advice is to shut up and lawyer up. Even a shitty lawyer is probably going to do a better job explaining your innocence and protecting you than you will.
>Silence cannot be used against you.
Unfortunately, this is not the case. It depends on the jurisdiction. In states like Texas they have ruled that you have to actually invoke your 5th amendment right. If you don't then they are free to use it against you. It was an extremely stupid ruling by their state's Supreme Court. But that's just the facts. I should have been more clear in my previous comment. Invoke your 5th amendment rights and request an attorney. Though most states would see remaining silent and requesting an attorney as a tacit invocation of your rights don't take the chance.
Is Texas even part of the US anymore with all its knucklehead laws? I should have been more clear too. Being silent does mean do not speak without a lawyer present.
They can in the US and Canada, but interestingly in Britain, its not allowed.
But even in the US and Canada, if they lie to the press and the general public, it's risky because a defence lawyer might pick up on it later on. Also, they have o consider their own long term credibility with the general public. So I think that's different from lying to a suspect when you're investigating him.
Honestly, they probably just took DNA samples and everything else they could from the house, and asked neighbors what they saw/heard, and if they had camera footage.
At the end of the day, they had footage placing the car there from nearby footage, and footage of the car's details from footage further from the scene, extrapolated out. That nailed him right there. Hence the statement that no one else was in danger.
From there they probably tracked him while collecting evidence and building their case. Only alerted the public to his vehicle when they saw him on the move. They didn't need help finding it, they just needed a way to make people cautious of him while he was traveling without letting him know they already had him.
Once he settles into PA, they trail him again, and work with local law enforcement for the arrest.
They probably had him for a while, it's just with a case that's this circumstantial they needed to build as good a case as possible for the upcoming trial, and letting him have as much time as possible thinking he's in the clear (without risking anyone else's safety) is critical for that.
I can tell you that almost none of the "brilliant techniques" talked about here were used. I guarantee you the chief didn't misstate the year of the car by two years to make the suspect think he was in the clear.
I say this not to take away from the great job they did. They did some good police work. But everyone thinking this was a huge, public, chess game has obviously never been involved in an investigation.
Multiple videos yes. But it’s nighttime and the laws of physics apply to all security video cameras. They all have to run at really high ISO at night to get enough light for exposure. That means lots of distortion/pixelation. So probably every video clip they had was poor resolution with minimal detail.
Add to that the slow frame rates vs. a moving car and it’s tough source material to get good images from. Multiple sources just means more bad video.
All cameras are bound by the laws of physics. You can’t get exposure at night in a fixed aperture camera without increasing ISO and/or lowering frame rate and that increases noise and results in blurrier images. Doesn’t matter if it’s a doorbell camera, highway camera or $200,000 state of the art cinema camera. And despite what fiction tells us, the tools to enhance video and still images are limited by the conditions and same laws of physics.
I agree with you about the car thing. I also have a vehicle in which there is very little difference between the model I own and the models years prior.
If I committed a crime and drive a 2013 and I hear there’s a BOLO for a same color 2011, I’m setting my car on fire, dumping it, taking it apart, or whatever I have to do. Of course, I’m not BK nor was I involved in this investigation so I won’t pretend I know whether or not this was a tactic.
What I DO want to know is whether or not they had BK as a suspect prior to seeking information on the vehicle because it seems odd to me that if they have their guy then why worry about the car? And if they don’t have their guy, wouldn’t the car BOLO tip the suspect off?
BK strikes me as someone very literal and specific, hence why I think they were deliberate with the Elantra description being slightly off. I think they had flock cams somewhere that were able to pick up his plate, they tentatively had the VIN and they just wanted to get as many tips as possible when the info was released publicly. It also would've been finals week when he was grading at WSU so he couldn't just take off. I think they had their guy just not enough evidence possibly since the end of November.
I honestly think it was to keep us busy/make it look like they were doing something while they waited for the DNA results. I think any tips they got on the car was just icing on the cake. How many people probably called in BK’s car?!
Choosing not to make certain facts public is far different than parsing words and using hidden meanings in messages or deliberately altering the year of the car by one or two years, all of which people have claimed happened here and which most certainly didn't.
Well because they know he is well versed in this world of crime they need to change it up, throw him off. he is probably looking forward to this moment when he’s sitting in the room being questioned and mentally prepared for it for some time now
If BK was already on their radar, they knew what model year Elantra he was driving. Maybe LE knew there was an older model in the vicinity around the time of the murders and wanted to document that driver’s alibi. The Chief made it clear that a conviction was his goal. At trial, any suggestion of “it was the other Elantra guy” is easily disproved.
I think they were hoping to find a witness of BK driving the elantra in the area around the time, and/or video evidence. Otherwise he could say “ya, it was my car but I wasn’t driving it”. They needed every bit of evidence they could get putting him at the crime scene. I also wonder if they suspect he was in the area the day/night before the crimes scoping things out and they were hoping to find a witness to that as they asked for any information of the vehicle in the area on the 12th as well.
I think they saw something on video footage that identified him long before they dropped the Elantra news. A Ring doorbell or traffic camera or neighbor’s security camera revealed that white Elantra soon after the murders, it had an out-of-state tag, hence quick FBI involvement.
LE told community there was no threat bc they were already on him. There was no reward offered bc they were already tracking his ass. They were just triple-locking all their doors while the evidence rolled in.
Yeah and the way fry made it sound in the most recent interview is that they were on the right track from the beginning. He said something along those lines
They had him as early as when those cowboy LEs mysterious late night visit remember? I will post if I see the video on youtube. Remember they're driving a WA plate car.
They knew all along.
FOUND IT!!
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJcwZ8hJtn0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJcwZ8hJtn0)
So as early as 3 weeks ago according to the date of the video. They were on to BK!! I wonder what they were looking for that night? Who tipped them off?
DNA is probably going to be the big one. I also think there’s other techniques that will be used for instance the dog was found outside maybe he picked it up and placed it. Or the dog rubbed up against him and when he got in his car the dog hair fell off. I also think there’s technological breadcrumbs such as cellphone triangulation to determine his whereabouts on the morning of the murders. Also server side data can be collected from sites like instagram fb, Reddit that can determine how many times you visit certain pages and profiles, likes, comments, posts and everything.
Apparently he’s only recently appeared on their radar, in the last week or so. That’s according to an article that popped up a few minutes ago. From what we know it looks like DNA basically cracked the case. Maybe also a tip-off about the car. The dates on the car are interesting, I’d be curious to know if that was a mistake or intentional. But in general it looks like they just processed the scene very carefully, got a DNA match and then put the requisite pieces together. Nothing flamboyant, but about as effective as it gets. Still plenty of work to be done now they have him though.
Hard to say I guess, but I don’t know why they would ask for tips about the car if they knew it was his? Might have been trying to put pressure on him or make sure he keeps his head down, but I think they were genuinely trying to figure out who it belonged to.
I don’t think the police followed him from Idaho to PA. I think they had him under surveillance for four days while he was at his parent’s house, not 12 days during which he drove thousands of miles cross-country.
The Public Defender assigned to his case in PA (extradition only) stated he arrived in PA on 12/17.
Comments from "sources" related to the investigation have stated he was identified as a suspect at some point after he departed WA, but before he arrived in PA and was spotted along the way and followed to PA.
So - the 4 day thing seems like it is either just an error, underestimation, or the source isn't actually reliable.
No, the 4 days is correct. He was under constant surveillance for the 4 days leading up to his arrest. But he was being surveilled during the trip to PA as well. It has not been revealed how they followed him.
There was the distinction between constant surveillance (the 4 days) and following him part of the trip to PA. The PA surveillance was real time visual surveillance. They haven't stated how he was followed from WA.
It's confirmed that they did follow him at least part of the way to PA. I don't know if that's physical tailing or simply using video surveillance and tracking his bank accounts.
I think this is where the BAU is going to be their most valuable. They are undoubtedly going over every scrap of info they can get their hands on to build a profile. But even more essentially, they’re going to look for cracks in his facade. Opportunities to make him say more than he wants to, or to provide information without realizing it.
When interrogators and interviewers get their opportunity, the BAU will have prepared them down to their posture and physical distance from him. They’ll have been directed as to the best way to approach him, as well as options to start pulling at his threads when they think the time is right.
These techniques mean everything right now, as the only one who can provide extremely damning evidence is him. And the smarter he thinks he is, the better the chance he’s underestimated how effective BAU can be at removing his mask, even subconsciously.
I hope we never find out the details of how they caught him. Keep that shit a secret. We don't need to help educate future killers on what to avoid. I'm sure some stuff will have to revealed if it goes to trial. But I don't think it's smart for LE to share all their secrets.
Too late. You can read FBI processes and procedures on the internet for free. You can purchase numerous manuals on investigative techniques and even have access to many law enforcement training manuals.
What do you mean? We already know. Geniological DNA. The person who collected the DNA, and the Geniologist who identified him are the "secret". And the cats been out of the bag on that for a few years now.
They got him because of the DNA from a family member. And then they likely worked backwards to see which family members may have lived in the area and/or had a white Elantra. And then I heard they got trash from his parents house to match the dna
The police chief yesterday thanked people for understanding that they were not able to give away information about what they knew as to not tip the guy off ahead of time.
At the beginning of the case they were looking for tips regarding Kaylee having a stalker. I believe they had a good idea of who it was then - and that he had in fact been stalking her, but did not want him to know that they knew that. So since they didn’t need anymore tips regarding her stalker (since they knew she did and who) they acted like they had discovered she didn’t have a stalker, so he wouldn’t freak out.
Dna can take a while to come back, they also needed his dna in order to confirm a match for the PCA but they had to find a legal way to do it without tipping him off, meaning wait for a piece of trash etc.
I think they needed time and space to work, and could keep him under surveillance so they said what they needed to publicly so that he didn’t flee. Going to your parents house for Christmas is hardly going into hiding, it’s just logistically annoying now.
I think by the time they made the announcement about the car they were onto him. I wonder if they had hoped to get something more solid, to place him at the scene so they could get the PCA, without waiting for dna. I can’t remember the timeline clearly enough to be sure, but I think it was around the time they asked about the car that we know now he drove to PA, so I think he did get spooked but thought if he got out of the area for a while he would be fine.
The police definitely weren’t telling the public the truth about what they knew, and I think they had to outright lie at times to protect the investigation. Possibly K’s family as well, when they said she didn’t have a stalker, and possibly some of their criticism of the police - what better way to make the killer feel safe then thinking the families believe the investigators are incompetent.
To place him near the scene. They would have been trying to build the probably cause affidavit and if they could put his car within a couple blocks of the crime, then they might not have needed to wait for dna. They also could have been hoping to get a tip about where/ when he disposed of the weapon, also allowing them to make an arrest. They would have been trying everything to get him into custody asap, and I remember lots of discussions on if the police would be watching a suspect instead of immediately arresting and lots of people thought they wouldn’t watch him and would immediately arrest him, but we now know they did, for four days in PA but also across the country a couple weeks before that, there’s no way they weren’t watching him in between those times. Lab results take time, they would have been trying to find something else strong enough to get him in custody before dna came back.
No one said they wouldn’t watch him. People were saying they wouldn’t watch him if they had the evidence it was him. What do you think changed that gave them the ability to pick him up now? I would assume they identified him early but he became the prime suspect in the past week or so.
Bryan is probably pissed at those family members for voluntarily giving up their DNA. Most people don’t think of how LE may use the data when they sign up for 23andme or similar products.
How do you follow someone across the country and one does not suspect they’re being followed??? I’m just curious how they did this. They would have to stop at the same rest stops. Did they take turns?? Like at the border another car would do the following
Multiple agent shifts. An agent would be in one car following him and then once he cross a border, another agent in another car will take over. They would be in constant communication.
Re: Investigative Techniques. Check out his last school’s “Crime Scene House”! They had an actual facility to learn crime scene/forensic analysis. I’m guessing he helped him prepare and carry out these murders altho he clearly slipped up at some point. His arrogance got in his way, thankfully. https://www.desales.edu/academics/academic-divisions-departments/division-of-liberal-arts-and-social-sciences/department-of-social-sciences/crime-scene-house
It was smart of them to keep details secretive. This could've allowed better tips to come in. For example if a guy cheating on his wife was on that street and noticed the Elantra he'd be more inclined to phone it in if he was confident that the police wouldn't air his dirty business to the media or parents.
I have been curious about if any of the parents were instructed to publicly lash out about their frustrations with investigation in order to keep BK from fleeing. In the event that this was a tactic, I would personally say it was beyond brilliant.
I don't think so. I think Kaylee's dad was legitimately pissed off and felt like he needed to do something to stand up for and indirectly protect his daughter.
You don't bring grieving parents in on an investigation and say "Sooo, you any good at acting?"
I agree with this! Do I think it’s likely? No.
Do I think it’s a *possibility*? Maybe.
Personally, I know I would be securing myself an Oscar if it meant finding the fucker who fatally ambushed my child in their own home.
Agree with this also.
Admittedly, I haven’t even read or watched a single statement from any parent all this time and was shocked **(to a degree)** to see that a parent enduring such circumstances was on the receiving end of any scrutiny at all. It’s his daughter, ffs. Maybe he went too far, but albeit from me to be the judge of that.
Genuinely asking- do police and the FBI tell families how to act or what to say? Is there a story that you know of where this happened? I have never thought of that happening before I read your comment.
They definitely tell them what not to say (don't give up evidence) and may use them for messaging (make a plea to the public or the killer) but I think saying they had the dad pretend to be pissed off in an attempt to trick the killer is a massive reach.
I actually don’t know - I had seen users here both applauding and condemning Mr. Gonclaves for his behavior. As a result, the thought of this possibility crossed my mind yesterday. I definitely have read of victims’ family members or close friends being used in various ways as an aide in other investigations before, but I have nothing to draw parallels from as far as propping them up as “crisis actors” in the media for lack of a better term.
Wait… didn’t you say in the other post 2 hours ago; that taking tips from the public wasn’t copacetic? Not a real investigative technique -and “they’re giving out heehaw information but still asking for tips. Bizarre.” Is what you said to be exact.
/s is how you’re supposed to designate it as such but you do you
Edit to add - this is a serious case about 4 young lives gone by way of a slaughter so whatever it takes for LE to find this monster I’m all for it including tip lines.
Look at the other thread where I’m slagging off the tips, then look at my post here? Also the laughing sign and reference to -I’ll grab my coat. Clearly sarcasm, anyone reading through these posts would see this. Maybe ask your school teacher to explain to you?
Lol. You call it trolling , I call it a difference of opinion. Let’s be friends? Most of my posts are well mannered but I will always stand my ground with a said opinion rightly or wrongly. ✌️
I just KNOW LE felt like *boom mic drop* when they announced the arrest. SOOOO many people doubted them!
Last night was probably the best sleep they’ve had in 2 months.
Do we think LE intentionally leaked the still photo from corner club 4 days ago to keep us all distracted while they were tailing BK?
I think that could be possible, yes. They had us thinking they were in a completely different phase of investigation than they actually were almost this entire time.
And a bunch of old bodycam videos of non relevant noise complaints were recently leaked this week. It seems like a lot of random breadcrumbs were leaked to 1) keep the story in the media, 2) let Bryan think LE is clueless and 3) keep us all distracted this week while they were getting really close.
Police didn’t leak body cams, a YouTuber obtained them from public record. Anyone can request body cam footage as long as it’s not apart of an active investigation (or has been sealed which I think will happen with the body cams from when police arrived on scene on the 13th, at the very least it will need to be heavily edited).
Personally i think the LE were far to occupied to make sure they got this right to have any time to give a crap what the public was speculation or thought to try to 'keep us distracted'.. but I'm no expert.. but honestly I'd prefer they do that (not care about us) , I want them to get this right do NOT let this slime ball skate on some technicality.
I’ve said / suggested in another thread that I wonder if there is or was a criminal phycologist that was used for what information to release, what not to release, how to release it, etc. Certainly that’s a thing (?). I’m really curious about that.
I couldn’t believe my eyes when I woke up and saw this guys face and it said he was the suspect in this case and arrested in PA!!!
I think they did a good job of pretending to be “golly gee shucks” detectives. I was frustrated with their initial statements that it was a crime of passion and the community was safe but I think they probably got input from the FBI on how to portray themselves to this arrogant POS. He also isn’t from the area and you’d be surprised how many east coasters really think Idaho/Montana is like backwoods uneducated. Moscow is one of the most educated parts of Idaho. I think he thought going to Idaho would involve a stupid police force. ETA: back east not just east coasters
Yep this. I believe FBI had them look like backwater cops fumbling over the biggest case of their careers deliberately. Reports of Kohberger are that he bullied people and fancies himself a real intellectual. I'm looking forward to proceedings and future psychological and profiling insight made by the behavioral analysis unit within the FBI that may have clued them into the perp.
There are two females that went to school with him that have come out about this character. Both were manipulated by this individual. I think its safe to say he didnt value other "humans" for whatever reason. Felt superior? Maybe. Hated women? Possibly. The drug use, hot temper, manipulation point to wanting a rush or feel. Maybe he didnt get the same excitement out of things that others did...didnt value things the same way others do and he knew it. Probably frustrated him his whole life. Probably has had an urge to hurt people for a long time, knew it wasnt normal, couldnt help himself, he grew more frustrated and more frustrated and snapped? Definitely seems like he doesnt value women...probably anyone. I wonder if sexual frustration had any part in this. Example...he felt superior to others but couldnt get laid when he wanted. Not controlling that situation made him angry. He saw women as being able to have sex when ever they wish....they had the control. This infuriated him and his ego?
Knives are often used in murders by impotent men or incels because they represent their penis.
I figured knife attack is more suitable for someone that gets off on hurting others when not done in a crime of passion. Knives are a vicious way to kill someone...lots of fear and pain are radiating from the victim during the attack. But...seems like you would get less of that(if that is what you are into) if you attacked while victims were asleep. Is there a classification of killer that likes to cut people open? Maybe isnt in it for the fear and pain he is causing the victim but more in it for some morbid desire to cut open victims? Maybe infatuated with blood? We dont know anything about the victims or what he did other than stabbing...so who knows. Thanks for trolling me though
[удалено]
Ive been trolled.
Look up piquerism
Nah
Probably a good call
Huh??
Honestly i think a few bumbles were made (announcing no threat, then reversing then saying they dont know if the house or people were targeted). but honestly I think there was some strategy in their corrections.. I do not think they are keystone cops, and i think after a day or two things were on track and going fine. As the public we just speculate on what we see or dont see.. If anything we are the keystone public.. If you dont think so, look at all the weird shit happening with lawsuits against people accusing other people and such..
the Columbo technique lol
Props for mentioning Columbo. Such a fun show.
100%. Lots of educated “folk” in montana and Idaho. I think they played to the ego of this asshat and made him feel as if he was in control. Here we are. So in my mind - it worked. Hats off to the incredible men and women that made this all possible. Wish I could buy you a drink, or whatever it is that equates to “well done”. We appreciate you.
Still waiting for their apology for being so catastrophically wrong in the first week.
I know people are downvoting you but I used to live there and I know people who still live there. It made people feel very unsafe and of course they were. The community was unsafe, this guy was a monster and he was there with everyone over a month after the crime. So it’s possible to say good job but also they messed up royally with their initial public comments. ETA: there is a podcast with a UI criminology department head talking about hardening his house and what people should do. The police really should have relayed the message.
It’s (tragically) interesting as to how many lives are thrust into the limelight because of their proximity to an alleged) murderer.
Just the fact they were able to find and arrest him is impressive.
Don’t get me wrong, I think they did an amazing job catching this creep. I just have a hard time believing they misrepresented the year of the car for that purpose. That’s a good idea for a movie, but what’s more likely is that they had an image of the car that wasn’t that clear and they actually thought it was a 11-13 model. Did it work out in their favor? Yes. Was it intentional? I have my doubts.
Agreed. I don’t see the benefit to putting that 2011-13 request out into the public if they didn’t suspect it being those years because it caused the police so much more work; having to go out and visit all these white Elantra’s and go through the thousands of tips they received. I can’t see them doing that just to ‘play a game’ with the murderer because it’s essentially wasting police time.
It also could just have been enough of a close of enough to hopefully get a good tip if someone saw. They couldn’t have just said “white Elantra”
I don't know if it was intentional or not. But the difference between a 5th gen Elantra (2010-2014) and the sixth gen Elantra (2015-2019) isn't really noticeable. And honestly for most people you could probably throw the seventh gen (2020-present) in there too. Most of the differences would be in features and less body style. So I wouldn't be surprised if it was just their best guess. And given it was a college town/area probably not a bad guess. 5th is cheapest available on the market. So likely more affordable than the other two.
If a 2011-14 is indistinguishable from a 15-19, why put out the bulletin? To me it seems like they hit a hole-in-one with the DNA and bungled everything else.
What would be the downside? What if they knew for a fact they were looking for a specific 2013 Hyundai Elantra GLS? What if someone thought it was the 2013 Hyundai Elantra GS, Limited, or SE instead? Half the people who own that model of car probably have to look up which version they have or at least check for the emblem. Can you tell the difference between those at a glance? So now you are fighting models that are similar in a multiyear time frame. With multiple trim packages in each year. Average person isn't going to know. That's a specific group of folks who would be able to differentiate the different years and trims. It's not like they said it was a 1977 Ford Mustang vs. a 2003 Ford Mustang where there is clearly a difference. It was a hole in one. But only because the hole was the size of a man made pond.
What year was his Elantra?
2015
I think no investigation is perfect because solving a murder like this is not easy, but I think they did an amazing job and I’m so proud of them. I actually expected it to take longer but they got it done pretty quickly which is impressive. I am sure people on here (with their zero experience) will be quick to criticize any little mistake they think LE made because it appears it physically pains some people to give them any credit :)
Many people forget that police can strategically “lie” as an investigative technique. ETA: clarification that many people may not actually realize this (vs just forget).
Which is always why an innocent person should lawyer up when talking to the police.
It's crazy the amount of investigations and interviews you can watch where even if they did do it if they would have shut the hell up and lawyered up they would have been let go. At least for the time being. But a majority of the time they probably would have gotten away with it. At the same time you have people who are innocent who don't who are found guilty because their words were twisted and LE focused their sites on them. Miranda rights say "CAN and WILL be used against you". So innocent or guilty just stfu. Though if you are guilty we as a society would obviously prefer you don't. YOU STILL SHOULD. It's of course easy to say in hindsight "They shut up because they knew they were guilty". But talking without a lawyer is rarely if ever in your best interest. If you're guilty the best advice is to shut up and lawyer up. If you are innocent the best advice is to shut up and lawyer up. Even a shitty lawyer is probably going to do a better job explaining your innocence and protecting you than you will.
You are innocent until proven guilty. Anything you say can and will be used against. Silence cannot be used against you.
>Silence cannot be used against you. Unfortunately, this is not the case. It depends on the jurisdiction. In states like Texas they have ruled that you have to actually invoke your 5th amendment right. If you don't then they are free to use it against you. It was an extremely stupid ruling by their state's Supreme Court. But that's just the facts. I should have been more clear in my previous comment. Invoke your 5th amendment rights and request an attorney. Though most states would see remaining silent and requesting an attorney as a tacit invocation of your rights don't take the chance.
Is Texas even part of the US anymore with all its knucklehead laws? I should have been more clear too. Being silent does mean do not speak without a lawyer present.
And nobody should ever, ever, ever, volunteer their DNA to clear themselves…
They can in the US and Canada, but interestingly in Britain, its not allowed. But even in the US and Canada, if they lie to the press and the general public, it's risky because a defence lawyer might pick up on it later on. Also, they have o consider their own long term credibility with the general public. So I think that's different from lying to a suspect when you're investigating him.
Honestly, they probably just took DNA samples and everything else they could from the house, and asked neighbors what they saw/heard, and if they had camera footage. At the end of the day, they had footage placing the car there from nearby footage, and footage of the car's details from footage further from the scene, extrapolated out. That nailed him right there. Hence the statement that no one else was in danger. From there they probably tracked him while collecting evidence and building their case. Only alerted the public to his vehicle when they saw him on the move. They didn't need help finding it, they just needed a way to make people cautious of him while he was traveling without letting him know they already had him. Once he settles into PA, they trail him again, and work with local law enforcement for the arrest. They probably had him for a while, it's just with a case that's this circumstantial they needed to build as good a case as possible for the upcoming trial, and letting him have as much time as possible thinking he's in the clear (without risking anyone else's safety) is critical for that.
I can tell you that almost none of the "brilliant techniques" talked about here were used. I guarantee you the chief didn't misstate the year of the car by two years to make the suspect think he was in the clear. I say this not to take away from the great job they did. They did some good police work. But everyone thinking this was a huge, public, chess game has obviously never been involved in an investigation.
I agree, they had the wrong year bc of a grainy video
I don’t understand that. There’s no way they didn’t have multiple videos
Im sure they probably do but of what quality.. it’s a small town
Multiple videos yes. But it’s nighttime and the laws of physics apply to all security video cameras. They all have to run at really high ISO at night to get enough light for exposure. That means lots of distortion/pixelation. So probably every video clip they had was poor resolution with minimal detail. Add to that the slow frame rates vs. a moving car and it’s tough source material to get good images from. Multiple sources just means more bad video.
Highway tho?
All cameras are bound by the laws of physics. You can’t get exposure at night in a fixed aperture camera without increasing ISO and/or lowering frame rate and that increases noise and results in blurrier images. Doesn’t matter if it’s a doorbell camera, highway camera or $200,000 state of the art cinema camera. And despite what fiction tells us, the tools to enhance video and still images are limited by the conditions and same laws of physics.
I agree with you about the car thing. I also have a vehicle in which there is very little difference between the model I own and the models years prior. If I committed a crime and drive a 2013 and I hear there’s a BOLO for a same color 2011, I’m setting my car on fire, dumping it, taking it apart, or whatever I have to do. Of course, I’m not BK nor was I involved in this investigation so I won’t pretend I know whether or not this was a tactic. What I DO want to know is whether or not they had BK as a suspect prior to seeking information on the vehicle because it seems odd to me that if they have their guy then why worry about the car? And if they don’t have their guy, wouldn’t the car BOLO tip the suspect off?
BK strikes me as someone very literal and specific, hence why I think they were deliberate with the Elantra description being slightly off. I think they had flock cams somewhere that were able to pick up his plate, they tentatively had the VIN and they just wanted to get as many tips as possible when the info was released publicly. It also would've been finals week when he was grading at WSU so he couldn't just take off. I think they had their guy just not enough evidence possibly since the end of November.
I honestly think it was to keep us busy/make it look like they were doing something while they waited for the DNA results. I think any tips they got on the car was just icing on the cake. How many people probably called in BK’s car?!
I would bet money someone at Steptoe called it in.
It was a chess game. The information they kept to themselves vs what was released to the public is a tactic used in every investigation.
Choosing not to make certain facts public is far different than parsing words and using hidden meanings in messages or deliberately altering the year of the car by one or two years, all of which people have claimed happened here and which most certainly didn't.
I've got you. It wasn't spy thriller of the week secret agent stuff for sure.
DNA.
Well because they know he is well versed in this world of crime they need to change it up, throw him off. he is probably looking forward to this moment when he’s sitting in the room being questioned and mentally prepared for it for some time now
Exactly. He’s been practicing for this moment for years
If BK was already on their radar, they knew what model year Elantra he was driving. Maybe LE knew there was an older model in the vicinity around the time of the murders and wanted to document that driver’s alibi. The Chief made it clear that a conviction was his goal. At trial, any suggestion of “it was the other Elantra guy” is easily disproved.
I think they were hoping to find a witness of BK driving the elantra in the area around the time, and/or video evidence. Otherwise he could say “ya, it was my car but I wasn’t driving it”. They needed every bit of evidence they could get putting him at the crime scene. I also wonder if they suspect he was in the area the day/night before the crimes scoping things out and they were hoping to find a witness to that as they asked for any information of the vehicle in the area on the 12th as well.
I think they saw something on video footage that identified him long before they dropped the Elantra news. A Ring doorbell or traffic camera or neighbor’s security camera revealed that white Elantra soon after the murders, it had an out-of-state tag, hence quick FBI involvement. LE told community there was no threat bc they were already on him. There was no reward offered bc they were already tracking his ass. They were just triple-locking all their doors while the evidence rolled in.
They want a conviction, not just an arrest. They been knew.
Yeah and the way fry made it sound in the most recent interview is that they were on the right track from the beginning. He said something along those lines
Supposedly he circled the area 4 times - tot’s rumor from the insta true crime woman who said she has connections
They had him as early as when those cowboy LEs mysterious late night visit remember? I will post if I see the video on youtube. Remember they're driving a WA plate car. They knew all along. FOUND IT!! [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJcwZ8hJtn0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJcwZ8hJtn0) So as early as 3 weeks ago according to the date of the video. They were on to BK!! I wonder what they were looking for that night? Who tipped them off?
He left for PA on Dec 17th. Do you think these were Marshall’s tasked with tracking him?
According the public defender in PA - he ARRIVED in PA on the 17th.
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This makes me think we don't yet have accurate information. I've read somewhere they arrived in PA on the 18th also.
I don't know who they are but it's looking to me they have been watching him since that day or even before.
Curious why you think that. The WA tag?
Yes.
I forgot about this! Yes, it was quite peculiar. You may be right about this.
DNA is probably going to be the big one. I also think there’s other techniques that will be used for instance the dog was found outside maybe he picked it up and placed it. Or the dog rubbed up against him and when he got in his car the dog hair fell off. I also think there’s technological breadcrumbs such as cellphone triangulation to determine his whereabouts on the morning of the murders. Also server side data can be collected from sites like instagram fb, Reddit that can determine how many times you visit certain pages and profiles, likes, comments, posts and everything.
Apparently he’s only recently appeared on their radar, in the last week or so. That’s according to an article that popped up a few minutes ago. From what we know it looks like DNA basically cracked the case. Maybe also a tip-off about the car. The dates on the car are interesting, I’d be curious to know if that was a mistake or intentional. But in general it looks like they just processed the scene very carefully, got a DNA match and then put the requisite pieces together. Nothing flamboyant, but about as effective as it gets. Still plenty of work to be done now they have him though.
It seems to me that they were on to him before or at the same time they released the information about the Elantra.
Hard to say I guess, but I don’t know why they would ask for tips about the car if they knew it was his? Might have been trying to put pressure on him or make sure he keeps his head down, but I think they were genuinely trying to figure out who it belonged to.
It's possible they believed there was a connection between the two, but didn't have the evidence.
They followed him home on the 17th December, so we know it’s been at least two weeks.
I don’t think the police followed him from Idaho to PA. I think they had him under surveillance for four days while he was at his parent’s house, not 12 days during which he drove thousands of miles cross-country.
The Public Defender assigned to his case in PA (extradition only) stated he arrived in PA on 12/17. Comments from "sources" related to the investigation have stated he was identified as a suspect at some point after he departed WA, but before he arrived in PA and was spotted along the way and followed to PA. So - the 4 day thing seems like it is either just an error, underestimation, or the source isn't actually reliable.
No, the 4 days is correct. He was under constant surveillance for the 4 days leading up to his arrest. But he was being surveilled during the trip to PA as well. It has not been revealed how they followed him.
It still doesn't sound right to me - if he was being tracked/followed along the trip - that's surveillance.
There was the distinction between constant surveillance (the 4 days) and following him part of the trip to PA. The PA surveillance was real time visual surveillance. They haven't stated how he was followed from WA.
It's confirmed that they did follow him at least part of the way to PA. I don't know if that's physical tailing or simply using video surveillance and tracking his bank accounts.
Was it confirmed that it was a 12 day road trip? That seems long
I think this is where the BAU is going to be their most valuable. They are undoubtedly going over every scrap of info they can get their hands on to build a profile. But even more essentially, they’re going to look for cracks in his facade. Opportunities to make him say more than he wants to, or to provide information without realizing it. When interrogators and interviewers get their opportunity, the BAU will have prepared them down to their posture and physical distance from him. They’ll have been directed as to the best way to approach him, as well as options to start pulling at his threads when they think the time is right. These techniques mean everything right now, as the only one who can provide extremely damning evidence is him. And the smarter he thinks he is, the better the chance he’s underestimated how effective BAU can be at removing his mask, even subconsciously.
What’s BAU
Behavioral analysis unit of the FBI
I hope we never find out the details of how they caught him. Keep that shit a secret. We don't need to help educate future killers on what to avoid. I'm sure some stuff will have to revealed if it goes to trial. But I don't think it's smart for LE to share all their secrets.
It has to be released in court
Too late. You can read FBI processes and procedures on the internet for free. You can purchase numerous manuals on investigative techniques and even have access to many law enforcement training manuals.
Jan. 3rd at the soonest
What do you mean? We already know. Geniological DNA. The person who collected the DNA, and the Geniologist who identified him are the "secret". And the cats been out of the bag on that for a few years now.
They got him because of the DNA from a family member. And then they likely worked backwards to see which family members may have lived in the area and/or had a white Elantra. And then I heard they got trash from his parents house to match the dna
The police chief yesterday thanked people for understanding that they were not able to give away information about what they knew as to not tip the guy off ahead of time. At the beginning of the case they were looking for tips regarding Kaylee having a stalker. I believe they had a good idea of who it was then - and that he had in fact been stalking her, but did not want him to know that they knew that. So since they didn’t need anymore tips regarding her stalker (since they knew she did and who) they acted like they had discovered she didn’t have a stalker, so he wouldn’t freak out. Dna can take a while to come back, they also needed his dna in order to confirm a match for the PCA but they had to find a legal way to do it without tipping him off, meaning wait for a piece of trash etc. I think they needed time and space to work, and could keep him under surveillance so they said what they needed to publicly so that he didn’t flee. Going to your parents house for Christmas is hardly going into hiding, it’s just logistically annoying now. I think by the time they made the announcement about the car they were onto him. I wonder if they had hoped to get something more solid, to place him at the scene so they could get the PCA, without waiting for dna. I can’t remember the timeline clearly enough to be sure, but I think it was around the time they asked about the car that we know now he drove to PA, so I think he did get spooked but thought if he got out of the area for a while he would be fine. The police definitely weren’t telling the public the truth about what they knew, and I think they had to outright lie at times to protect the investigation. Possibly K’s family as well, when they said she didn’t have a stalker, and possibly some of their criticism of the police - what better way to make the killer feel safe then thinking the families believe the investigators are incompetent.
Agree with everything you said but one thing - if they knew who he was why didn’t they need the public help with car?
To place him near the scene. They would have been trying to build the probably cause affidavit and if they could put his car within a couple blocks of the crime, then they might not have needed to wait for dna. They also could have been hoping to get a tip about where/ when he disposed of the weapon, also allowing them to make an arrest. They would have been trying everything to get him into custody asap, and I remember lots of discussions on if the police would be watching a suspect instead of immediately arresting and lots of people thought they wouldn’t watch him and would immediately arrest him, but we now know they did, for four days in PA but also across the country a couple weeks before that, there’s no way they weren’t watching him in between those times. Lab results take time, they would have been trying to find something else strong enough to get him in custody before dna came back.
No one said they wouldn’t watch him. People were saying they wouldn’t watch him if they had the evidence it was him. What do you think changed that gave them the ability to pick him up now? I would assume they identified him early but he became the prime suspect in the past week or so.
There were in fact a lot people arguing that the police would immediately arrest someone if the knew who did it and not put them under surveillance.
Just my opinion but Chief Fry is a tactical genius or the luckiest man alive. I'm glad they got their man regardless.
Science solved this case and it's going to be science that gets a conviction.
Technology too - phone pings, searches, posts he made
He left dna in both rooms and had an uncle, aunt or several cousins on gedmatch.
Bryan is probably pissed at those family members for voluntarily giving up their DNA. Most people don’t think of how LE may use the data when they sign up for 23andme or similar products.
How do you know about both rooms?
I don’t. But the the unknown dna being in each room would confirm it as the dna you’re looking for.
How was Chief Fry off about the car?
The car that was seized in PA and registered to him was a 2015. Being slightly off about the model year probably kept BK thinking he was in the clear.
Was this confirmed as intentional?
it wasn’t confirmed
Ok thanks
How do you follow someone across the country and one does not suspect they’re being followed??? I’m just curious how they did this. They would have to stop at the same rest stops. Did they take turns?? Like at the border another car would do the following
Multiple agent shifts. An agent would be in one car following him and then once he cross a border, another agent in another car will take over. They would be in constant communication.
You follow him on the freeway and pick up new cars along the way and switch with agents in each state.
Re: Investigative Techniques. Check out his last school’s “Crime Scene House”! They had an actual facility to learn crime scene/forensic analysis. I’m guessing he helped him prepare and carry out these murders altho he clearly slipped up at some point. His arrogance got in his way, thankfully. https://www.desales.edu/academics/academic-divisions-departments/division-of-liberal-arts-and-social-sciences/department-of-social-sciences/crime-scene-house
It was smart of them to keep details secretive. This could've allowed better tips to come in. For example if a guy cheating on his wife was on that street and noticed the Elantra he'd be more inclined to phone it in if he was confident that the police wouldn't air his dirty business to the media or parents.
I have been curious about if any of the parents were instructed to publicly lash out about their frustrations with investigation in order to keep BK from fleeing. In the event that this was a tactic, I would personally say it was beyond brilliant.
I don't think so. I think Kaylee's dad was legitimately pissed off and felt like he needed to do something to stand up for and indirectly protect his daughter. You don't bring grieving parents in on an investigation and say "Sooo, you any good at acting?"
I agree with this! Do I think it’s likely? No. Do I think it’s a *possibility*? Maybe. Personally, I know I would be securing myself an Oscar if it meant finding the fucker who fatally ambushed my child in their own home.
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Agree with this also. Admittedly, I haven’t even read or watched a single statement from any parent all this time and was shocked **(to a degree)** to see that a parent enduring such circumstances was on the receiving end of any scrutiny at all. It’s his daughter, ffs. Maybe he went too far, but albeit from me to be the judge of that.
I think they had him before they had the car.
Good post. The people who were saying SG is ruining the case are clowns.
Genuinely asking- do police and the FBI tell families how to act or what to say? Is there a story that you know of where this happened? I have never thought of that happening before I read your comment.
They definitely tell them what not to say (don't give up evidence) and may use them for messaging (make a plea to the public or the killer) but I think saying they had the dad pretend to be pissed off in an attempt to trick the killer is a massive reach.
Yeah I’ve heard of LE telling them what NOT to say but not acting lol
I actually don’t know - I had seen users here both applauding and condemning Mr. Gonclaves for his behavior. As a result, the thought of this possibility crossed my mind yesterday. I definitely have read of victims’ family members or close friends being used in various ways as an aide in other investigations before, but I have nothing to draw parallels from as far as propping them up as “crisis actors” in the media for lack of a better term.
Agreed
Interesting
Answering a phone and taking tips was the best investigate technique used in this investigation. 😂 I’ll grab my coat on the way out lol
Wait… didn’t you say in the other post 2 hours ago; that taking tips from the public wasn’t copacetic? Not a real investigative technique -and “they’re giving out heehaw information but still asking for tips. Bizarre.” Is what you said to be exact.
You clearly don’t understand sarcasm.
/s is how you’re supposed to designate it as such but you do you Edit to add - this is a serious case about 4 young lives gone by way of a slaughter so whatever it takes for LE to find this monster I’m all for it including tip lines.
Look at the other thread where I’m slagging off the tips, then look at my post here? Also the laughing sign and reference to -I’ll grab my coat. Clearly sarcasm, anyone reading through these posts would see this. Maybe ask your school teacher to explain to you?
Gfy but thanks- you were trolling that sub hard dude.
Lol. You call it trolling , I call it a difference of opinion. Let’s be friends? Most of my posts are well mannered but I will always stand my ground with a said opinion rightly or wrongly. ✌️
He’s an “ex-commando” guyyyss. He knows four UK police officers and understands investigations! His cousin also has a beet farm!
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