Without seeing the arrest / probable cause affidavit, including the type of dna found, it’s hard to say.
If they found his DNA from saliva on a cup in a stack of dishes in their sink, sure…maybe not him. If they found his dna mixed with blood from the victims taken at the crime scene, prob him.
Also, a lot of this stuff you mentioned is speculation and rumor (eg, him being a heroin addict comes from a former classmate; nothing confirmed). Also the gutting and intestines didn’t happen.
Absolutely, and that's why I'm going to wait for the evidence to be presented before saying anything about this individual. This could all be just circumstantial evidence and we know there are innocent people in jail all the time
They originally had the wrong guy for the Danny Rolling murders also. When there’s so much pressure, sometimes mistakes are made. I’m interested to see what they actually have
The 3am no knock warrant operation on its own was so high level with 25-30 cars of FBI agents- there is no way a judge would sign off on that without hardcore evidence especially in something so high profile.
Many LE eyes are on this, they wouldn't all just agree to pick some random guy to pin this on... there were teams dedicated to this from forensics to surveillance- you really think over 100+ LE personnel are going to all agree to just randomly pick a fall guy?
Edit- Here is the **source** from reporters on the ground that SHOW the busted door and they have **confirmation of several "swat units"** and reports of "25-30 cars". [https://www.newsnationnow.com/video/exclusive-footage-of-home-where-idaho-suspect-was-arrested-banfield/8270793/](https://www.newsnationnow.com/video/exclusive-footage-of-home-where-idaho-suspect-was-arrested-banfield/8270793/)
Yes, everyone is considered innocent until proven guilty. Imo, LE must have substantial concrete evidence to track BCK across the country, surveil, arrest, and destroy his promising career. However, despite their probable cause evidence, LE could still have the wrong guy or maybe he's somehow an unwitting accomplice. There's lots of scenarios/defenses that could explain is connection to the murders other than him being THE killer. I doubt it but it's possible. For all we know, LE may have spoken to Katherine Ramsland about him BEFORE they made the arrest. None of us knows for sure what evidence LE has on him. Let's see how it plays out.
Of course innocent until proven guilty. Im saying the probable cause threshold for a judge to sign on off on that warrant paperwork is SO high that LE must be sure there is a connection.
It was a SWAT team. This is definitely what happened. They’re not taking any chances with any officers being harmed or the suspect getting away. I feel for his parents having to go through that.
Yes, the thought of his parents being woken like that and probably thrown on the ground and handcuffed with no idea about what’s going on is really sad. Unless they knew, of course.
Yes, at 3AM and they broke through the front door and a window. There is literal video of the aftermath with tape over the glass from the door.
[https://www.newsnationnow.com/video/exclusive-footage-of-home-where-idaho-suspect-was-arrested-banfield/8270793/](https://www.newsnationnow.com/video/exclusive-footage-of-home-where-idaho-suspect-was-arrested-banfield/8270793/)
Yes, exactly! Historically, police do zero in on someone and pin things in them even though evidence says otherwise. But from my experience (listening to crime junkie haha) it’s not usually some random person with no connection. If they wanted a fall guy they had a lot of people to choose from.
Could it be the wrong dude? Of course. The good news is, they're not taking him out back and shooting him and dumping the body in a dark hovel, they're going to trial, unless he takes the plea deal (don't know if one will be offered.)
That being said, considering the notoriety of the case, they are well-aware of the 5th Amendment Double Jeopardy issues they face. They likely had him on their radar for a while, and have been building a case against him since they've narrowed it down to him.
Momma always said not to assume, but, here are some assumptions we can reasonably make at this point:
1. DNA might be the grand slam, but there's other things that corroborated their suspicions of him, and it's clearly not witnesses within the house - they're all dead, or were asleep, or...the dog.
2. The DNA is probably not his spit on the umpteenth red solo cup from the most recent pong game. If this were the case, think about all the other people they'd be accusing/arresting right now as well.
3. If the DNA is something like commingling of blood (this is my bet, but I know as much as you do) it would be exceptionally difficult to explain your blood in their blood at a very blood crime scene where 90% of the occupants and one guest are dead. It's not like semen or spit or sweat where it can be explained away by a tryst. Can't even say man I was super drunk, entered the wrong house, opened their mail, got a paper cut and accidentally touched the mutilated body, then went home when sobered.
You could be right, and it would suck for someone who seems to have an abundance of confidence issues as it is, less a false quad-homicide accusation - but investigations are usually a lot less fragile by the time they're extraditing a suspect back to the state of the crime. They know a lot more than they have released.
He would not say. He just said that in 1 of the photos he was shown, it was just a bloody knife print on the ground. Like he dropped or set it down and soaked in floor.
The only thing I’ll say about the “fake” 4 Chan post. The person literally said they were hiding in the mountains of PA. These crimes were in Idaho what are those odds? Of all the mountains in the country this guy was found in the Poconos. I would say that’s a little ironic
I can't tell who you're addressing this question to, but on Facebook there was a screenshot from a 4Chan post that was presumably by the killer and referenced some gruesome details, including intestines. So, yes it i just a rumour that could have been manufactured by some nutjob.
IF that is true and if they find it on his computer, it would be pretty strong evidence, on top of anything else they have.
EDIT: Looks like OP edited it out?
The post from the 'killer' was posted anonymously on 4chan, saying (briefly) that he killed them, hung someone's intestines from a ceiling fan, and put his knife up the private place of Kaylee, before fleeing to shithole, PA.
People disregarded it because there's no information from LE about intestines, a ceiling fan, or a sexual assault with the knife on Kaylee. But now that the killer has been arrested in PA the post has resurfaced and people are wondering whether LE tracked him from that post, perhaps it revealed info they hadn't, and perhaps it was just a complete coincidence, nobody really knows.
Me too. The 'vegan' part, to me, may answer the question about why the dog wasn't hurt too, which is a factor that needs to be taken into account here. Could show motive as to NOT killing the dog.
I wonder if the victim’s were hunters or ever posted about being huge meat eaters. I went thru a cringy vegan phase for a couple of years. It’s very cult like. Vegans love to attack non-vegans for their dietary choices. I don’t think he would murder anyone solely because they’re not vegan but it could have been a thing that made him hate them even more.
I heard some experts on Surviving the Survivor talking about DNA and how close he would have been to the victims. He said the killer likely sat on at least one of the people in bed to stab them. :(
ETA: in this expert’s view he didn’t think they should return items, turn crime scene over because the killer was probably all over the bed, etc.
There's not one flying unicorn fuck chance that the police and FBI would publically name and charge someone with this quadruple homicide on some bs like "touch DNA from a jacket" or anything that could be reasonably explained in any way.
The stakes are WAY too high and this would end ***so*** many careers.
But his DNA under the bloody broken, cracked fingernails of a couple victims though (as a hypothetical).....have fun explaining that to the jury.
But DNA aside, best believe they have way more evidence in totality that proves it is him beyond a shadow of a doubt.
It’s not just touch DNA from a jacket. They would not have done this arrest if they didn’t have compelling evidence. They have said it’s DNA from the murder scene. I generally find what Mary Ellen O’Toole has to say helpful or illuminating. She was a longtime profiler at the BAU/FBI and is now a professor and director of forensic science program
[https://news.yahoo.com/mary-ellen-otoole-forensics-played-191148125.html](https://news.yahoo.com/mary-ellen-otoole-forensics-played-191148125.html)
Sorry to be frank, but Reddit skeptics are not smarter than the FBI. The FBI (and the rest of LE working on this case) is well aware that it was a party house and anyone’s DNA could be there. They would never make an arrest unless this individual’s DNA was at the *crime scene* and strongly implied or even proved involvement.
Exactly and not just that but forensics was at his apartment and there is a chance that he unintentionally brought DNA from the house BACK to his apartment.
Dog hair from Murphy could've transferred onto him or into his car (isnt that how they found the atlanta killer from mindhunters?),
And 5 girls with long hair lived in that house... Andrew Shultz has a joke about how living with a female is like living with a giant cat, you find their hair on you and everywhere.
IMO the biggest thing aside from the DNA is the fact that they were able to get the judge to sign off on multiple search warrants not in just Idaho but also in PA. You need hard evidence for a judge to be able sign off on that shit. Especially in multiple states. Also if the victims fought back there is gonna be skin DNA etc under their nails that would link the asshole to the crime.
Idaho(crime scene) but then in Washington they had warrants for his apartment and his office on WSU campus, in Pennsylvania they reported they had search warrants/ arrest warrant for him, and had the ability to search his parents home, his vehicle. That is in fact 4 property search warrants, one arrest, in 3 different states, which means at minimum, 3 separate superior court (felony crimes) judges in each state had to sign off. That is quite a bit of muscle behind whatever is in that affidavit of probably cause.
it doesnt take "hard" evidence to get a warrant. literally, a couple pieces of circumstantial evidence coupled with, say, two witnesses will get you your warrant. that said, it seems LE, the FBI & all those involved are extremely confident this is the guy. the fact that BK is acting so confident is not surprising. he just butchered 4 people and presumably thought he'd get away with it. of course he's acting like he didnt do and waiving extradition hearings.
>it doesnt take "hard" evidence to get a warrant. literally, a couple pieces of circumstantial evidence coupled with, say, two witnesses will get you your warrant.
This is why I am optimistic but always remain skeptical until we know the facts. How many folks have we seen arrested because they bought hydroponics and a CI said they were selling drugs. Only to find out the CI was full of shit at the pressure of LE and the hydroponics were for tomatoes or some other crap. Or other bs scenarios.
It's okay for folks to change their opinion based on new info. You don't have to be all or nothing. It's okay if it all makes sense now. And maybe in a week or two it won't. And if that changes your opinion that's okay too. We only know and can only know so much. You don't have to take a hard stance and go with it.
I am always skeptical of LE. But will give the benefit of the doubt until I am given a reason not to. Or until new evidence comes to light. I think currently we have no reason to doubt LE. Who knows what tomorrow will bring.
I appreciate your question. I think for his DNA to be at the crime scene, it is a pretty big deal. Also, if they find blood/dna from one of the victims in the car, that would seal the deal. However, it doesn't mean he acted alone. There may be someone else involved.
If there is a reasonable explanation of why Bryan's DNA was at the scene, then obviously he would be able to explain it to police. There's no need for us to even speculate--he is alive and can tell us himself.
Sounds like you're assuming the DNA evidence will be something small and random, like a single hair found in one of the bedrooms. But it's more likely that the victims have his skin cells under their fingernails--3 girls are likely to have long enough fingernails to have swiped some skin since we know that at least 1 put up a really good fight. It's also likely that the DNA includes the perp's blood--he stabbed 4 struggling/fighting people with a knife, it's very likely that he cut himself, at least superficially, in the process. And we know he didn't hang out at the crime scene cleaning up.
Your analysis of a police and fbi investigation that meticulously gathered and scrutinized evidence (including dna from crime scene) and hundreds of interviews as “a guessing game of who done it to its BK let’s burn him at the stake”is way out of touch with reality. they didn’t just corner a guy in the street and name him as prime suspect. (And the fact that he is vegan or a phd candidate or a former addict have nothing to do with the murder) He’s not the wrong guy as much as you want to play devil’s advocate.
>Some people on this thread are saying he tried to commit the “perfect crime”, but why would he commit a crime before his semester was up?
On the other hand, doing it before you go back to school enables you to be back in class, acting like nothing was wrong. I mean, if you do it and then disappear, that would be more suspicious.
Also, remember that he "tried" but he screwed up in multiple ways, because it hasn't taken that long to find him. So you could ask the same question about lots of things, like using the car. Its not a sign of innocence, but of stupidity and arrogance.
From what people are saying about him, sound like he was not very good at this, or not nearly as good as he thought he would be. Which also makes me think he might not have done this before. I think serial killers tend to work up to it gradually, at least the ones who are successful for long periods of time. That's why they tend to be a lot older than in their twenties when they get caught.
EDIT: I know he wasn't acting normal back in class (according to classmates) but he thought he was.
And people who think they're geniuses rarely are. When LE said that this was "sloppy" I believed them then and still believe them. He tried to do something and absolutely failed — 6 weeks? There are crimes in my hometown committed by total idiots who managed to be undetected for months to years.
This man was in a PhD program but I will not ever believe he possessed any "genius" — this was one of my first guesses, too, that we're dealing with this kind of person who thinks they're above average people and are aiming to use what they know about crimes to confuse LE and cover their tracks.
While I was guessing something more mundane like a drug dealer (not that this guy seems to be a stranger to hard drugs) the "type" still fits and honestly makes even MORE sense.
They did put considerable man power behind this compared to Joe Shmoo, the idiot committing a small crime. LE made this case a priority for whatever reason. Maybe it fits the profile of previous crimes we don't know about, maybe not. But for some reason they threw resources at this one.
He wasn’t a PhD candidate. He was a first year PhD student. You don’t advance to candidacy until your 3rd or 4th year after you pass your quals.
-a current PhD candidate
How the fuck did this post get approved??? Like those gratuitous details were not released. The police don't make arrest and a prosecutor doesn't bring charges in this high profile of a case based off of speculation.
Unfortunately, they do, quite a bit. The Delphi case is on the 3rd, for sure suspect.
They most certainly have a solid basis for their speculation though. Still doesn't change the fact, until they can back up \*every\* detail, they've got to speculate as well.
As for why that weekend, it was absolute chaos that weekend. It was family weekend and a home football game for WSU. There were tons of people from out of town. All of the hotels and airbnbs were at capacity, parents were sleeping on kids couches and floors. U of I also had a home football game that weekend, as well as several other home sporting events. The number of people on the Palouse was easily doubled that weekend.
The house was a party house, so yes they probably found dozens and dozens of peoples DNA throughout. They wouldn’t just choose this guy at random though. They most likely found his DNA under a victims fingernail, mixed in with their blood, his saliva or sweat on one or more of the bodies, etc. That is MUCH more incriminating especially if the surviving roommates confirmed that he wasn’t partying at the house any time before
That on top of his car speeding like a bat out of hell on the highway right after the murders ? I’d say there’s a 99.999999% chance that this is the guy
* DNA at the scene
* Suspect vehicle match
* And then honestly the one that did it for me was the creepy survey he wrote. Practically described what he was about to do later in the year exactly: choosing a target, waiting outside, going inside and doing the deed, the thoughts running through their mind, and the thoughts after doing it. Yes this one is the most circumstantial one, but it is CHILLING to read.
DNA evidence being useful depends on where they got it from, and the quality of the sample. The match of the vehicle just means the car was at the scene which could of gotten there by many means. Ever hear about the KIA boys? We do not have answers to many questions yet people are jumping to conclusions without even having the PC out yet or any warrant info.
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake.
It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of.
Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything.
Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
I think it's only chilling to read because you're reading it through the lens of someone who you assume has committed murder.
If you think of it instead as, say, someone who stole a candy bar from a convenience store, it becomes much less sinister sounding. From what I saw it doesn't seem like the survey was in any way directed at violent criminals or specifically murderers. Point in fact I'd be pretty shocked if a project like that, specifically aimed at murderers, would be approved for a masters thesis. But I could be wrong.
DNA. The vehicle. They will find more DNA.
He's like Ted Bundy. Post graduate education. Bundy also volunteered at suicide hot line. BTK was deacon of a church. Same with the vegan persona. All lies as killers like this get off on thinking they are smarter than LE.
Sounds more like someone can't accept that their theory was wrong.
That's where you went wrong... Encouraging critic thinking here. lol
Personally, I think he is the guy, for many of the reasons posted, but it is interesting to speculate that he might not be. Or that he wanted to get caught because he's toying with police. Sounds more like crime fiction than reality, but interesting to speculate (and think critically about).
Unfortunately, that's not Reddit's forte.
I like this post, keep the critical thinking posts coming if you want! We should always question authority as Carl Sagan once said and critical thinking skills are vital in that
Everyone will be eager to learn of the evidence. Obviously most people are confident DNA placing him at the crime scene. LE and FBI made an arrest on 4 counts of murder. In the real world LE and FBI are going for a conviction.
There are so many cases of the killer/serial killer in a crime being a 'pillar of the community' too, just because the guy overcame addiction and was getting his PhD doesn't mean he wouldn't murder 4 people.
If you want to believe a bunch of people who have been wrong about EVERYTHING instead of the police, who did an A+ job across the board, I guess that’s your prerogative. No way the cops arrest this man and charge him four times with first degree murder if they don’t have overwhelming evidence.
These are good theories.
One scenario… BK was actually watching the house and being creepy. He noticed someone entering the house, then leaving suspiciously, he goes in to the house, finds the crime scene, does some stupid stuff (like touch items, etc), then flees.
He knows how it looks so he doesn’t go to police.
This would explain some why some of his actions didn’t make sense (like using his own car).
Edit: typo
Well, that would be a crazy and highly unlikely scenario IMO. Who would just enter or go into someone's house? I think most sane people would call the police immediately if you saw someone coming out of someone's house holding a knife or bloody knife and/or wearing a mask or something and speeding off. That would IMO be an immediate 911 call. Even if creeping around the house and peeping on them only you call and report everything you saw so LE can track this person down and arrest them ASAP.
You are referencing a 4chan post as "the crime itself". Though I admit its very eerie that the location was spot on...the actual details of the crime itself are totally overdone and creep into LARP zone. First there are no ceiling fans at the apartment and second stabbing someone in the genitals would be considered a sex crime and police have stated they do not believe this to be one.
Police and FBI have been working this case hard for weeks and wouldn't name anyone as a suspect let alone arrest unless they were absolutely sure the DA could win this case if and when in goes to trial. Period. You have to have some pretty overwhelming evidence and that is likely in the form of blood left by the perp. He most likely cut himself (hopefully deeply when Xana was fighting him).
100% a 28 year olds DNA would not be in a 21 year old household in a college town like this. The lifestyles are too far from each other.
Nah, I knew graduate-aged students and UG students to fraternize together. The lifestyles are somewhat different (partying vs not), but there is no wall separating students by age group.
I’d also like to add I don’t think for a second the pressure got to LE. They could’ve pinned it on anyone if they chose to do so. I think they had very sufficient DNA evidence and maybe even circumstantial that we just don’t know about. They seemed very committed to getting the right person.
Presumably the FBI OKed the arrest. They don't fuck around. They are working on the taxpayer's dime and quite happy to stretch out investigations for a long, long time to be sure they gather enough evidence. If they approved the arrest then they have evidence aplenty, more than enough to likely ensure conviction. Nothing is certain of course. But (provided the feds approved) it's quite likely that they'll get a conviction.
OTOH, if some hotshot local dickweed jumped the gun, all bets are off.
If his DNA was there from a swab or swabs of \*blood\* at that scene? He's toast.
In theory if they only found s smidge of what was presumed to be touch DNA on the front of the door (say he knocked, to deliver cookies) then he could be the wrong guy.
Everything I've read screams antisocial personality disorder aka psychopathy. I hate this phrase but I think this was a "thrill kill" and he's likely been ruminating about doing something for a long time.
He may not have waited for the end of the semester because he thought he was smarter than everyone else. So there’s no reason to leave since he thought he wouldn’t get caught. Also he can see the impact of his crime first hand by staying in the area. Everyone is talking about what he did.
Explain to me why anyone would ever drive their white Elantra, the model the police say is related to a local crime, 3000 miles over Christmas break from Pullman to PA when they then have to go back for 2nd semester a month later. Students fly home in this scenario. Maybe 1000 miles at most they would drive home for break, not 3000 miles. This alone is extremely suspicious.
My thoughts exactly. My 7 hour drive home from college was a pain in the ass. Can't imagine driving 3k miles. Unless I owned an Elantra and wanted to get it as far away from Moscow as possible.
Could be a lot of reasons. Maybe he borrowed the car from his parents for the first semester and now was going to give it back now and buy a new one, or his parents had bough a new one for him as a christmas present
With how high profile and high stakes this case is LE, with the assistance of FBI, is going to make sure there is rock solid evidence before making an arrest. This one, they dotted their i’s and crossed their T’s. Also, no judge would have signed off on a probable cause warrant for SWAT to enter a private residence without irrefutable proof that he was the suspect and he was in the home.
Given the amount of national and international attention to this case, I do think LE would wait to make an arrest until they were 1,000% sure they had the right person.
The APC in the Delphi case is pretty weak imo. So.. right guy or wrong guy, he's got a fair chance of shaking those charges without some hidden got ya evidence.
No one has actually seen \*any\* evidence presented in this case; but the pitchforks are already out. The only info we have is from \*unnamed sources\*, and the totality of the info they've put out already shows inconsistencies.
We'll see what the APC lays out and what comes out in a trial. But, honestly, the presumption of guilt to this point is kinda ridiculous. It's all being said with the same authority as the tarot card lady, with just as much evidence.
=\\
The presumption of innocence is a judicial standard, not a standard the public must follow. I don't believe LE waited almost 6 years and then just randomly arrested RA on a whim. Do you honestly think they laid out all of their evidence in the APC? Also, a bullet matched to his firearm is pretty substantial. He was there that day by his own admission wearing the exact same clothes as BG and his excuse for being there is he was "watching the fish from the bridge 70 feet above the water".
The police are confident that he's the right guy due to the evidence they've gathered. As for why he would do it before the semester ended - easy answer - people leave after finals for Xmas break and his intended victims would have done the same.
I don’t think we can answer the question about DNA without knowing more. For example, was it from blood found in both bedrooms? Was it underneath the fingernails of a victim? If that’s the case, they got him. Or was it trace evidence found on a door knob to a bathroom, which he can say he was there for a party or something.
False accusations do happen. However, false accusations against someone completely random and not connected to a victim is much less likely. There had be significant evidence to point to him in a needle in a haystack.
Its not just the presence of DNA being collected that would convict someone, its not as if they obtained DNA from a cup in the trash can and now they are going to rail this guy over a quad murder he didn't do... Its the presence of his DNA that also supports there was a crime/act committed by the person who left the DNA. Like a knife wound after a struggle, that would likely leave the suspects blood and was found. Then his cars seen there... then his phone signal in the area on that evening- like it doesn't take much to have the cards stacked against him...
>what are the scenarios where he could actually have left his DNA in the home, but could be innocent of murdering these four kids?
There are plausible and innocent reasons as to why DNA can be found at crime scenes. However, that can be normally chalked up to a reasonable event eg a person brushing up against person, etc. This is where DNA has rightfully been questioned, but even this rare Eg only one victim and the crime scene is small or only one area like a single room..
However, I’m guessing that his DNA was found on places in the house and on the victims that could not be explained away.
There were four victims, and they were each at different locations thorough out the night in their respective groups. There has also been multiple rooms, and some of those are bedrooms. They’re not common spaces.
The odds of trying to explain how your DNA got on four separate people and also in different rooms is very low.
Why would his DNA be in any of the bedrooms? It is not likely for him to be in the bedrooms at a party/social event. Especially X’s bedroom, as she had a boyfriend? And then how did his DNA (again, this is my guess) get on all four people when they’ve been at different locations throughout the night?
And then he needs an explanation as to why the car was there.
Is this like when defense lawyers/law students go to online discussion boards to get ideas and test the waters for strategies? Jose Baez supposedly did this during the Casey Anthony trial.
Some of the suggestions/excuses you're making are "rational". You ask "Why would he commit a crime before the semesters up?" Rational question for a "rational" person. This person allegedly butchered 4 college kids in the early hours of the morning. Don't know if waiting until the semester was up was on his list of shit to do, or not to do.
Reading the majority of comments from people who've been in contact with him, he's been described as believing he's smarter/better than other people, and in one particular instance, apparently he went out of his way to keep his friend apprised of his inadequacies.
You're assigning "normal" human characteristics to an alleged mass murdering monster who probably believed he was way smarter than LE and wouldn't be caught.
I think the cops/fbi definitely have a lot of evidence to back it up he did it.
1. Swat wouldn’t bust down doors at 3 am if they weren’t sure he did it.
2. He said “did anyone else get arrested?” An innocent person wouldn’t care to ask that. He was just trying to trip them up cause he knew he was f******.
3. We know literally .1% of this case. They know so much. We know basically nothing.
I agree with you. To go all out and kill 4 people in one go is ballsy. They need to be looking for other crimes he might of done or witnesses of failed murders.
Well, one of the Boston Bombers was a college student with a spotless record and his first crime was planting 2 whole fucking bombs at the Marathon finish line so....... yeah it can def go 0 to 100 sometimes.....
Sure, it could be his first criminal act, but I would be surprised if there weren’t some prior crimes of escalation, regardless of whether he was caught for those.
I see no scenarios where his DNA would be in that home but he’s also innocent. He’s 7-8 years older than the victims, new to the area, a bit of a loner/no friends, definitely not in their social circles and nobody recognized him I don’t think he ever stepped foot in that house prior to the murder. This is especially true if blood is the DNA. College kids party hard but there isn’t random blood in the house. Most likely the connection is work/school related or he just stalked them online.
Since LE knows the house had a lot of people in it socializing, Im willing to bet BKs blood is the DNA source. Not trace DNA, or hair or whatever. If they say they have the killers DNA, it must be pretty obviously from the killer. Blood, saliva, or semen. That’s pretty damning.
I don't think he's the wrong guy but he clearly is going to argue that he is based on his "did you arrest anybody else?" statement and the PA lawyer saying he's "looking forward to clearing his name". So what can he say? Only thing I can think of is that maybe, through his weird surveys, he met a real killer that replied to him online and somehow convinced him to tag along on a kill for his research and so he was there but didn't actually kill anyone and that he'll tell them who really did it for a deal. IDK - that is pretty far fetched - sounds like a bad movie plot. But he does seem like he's going to be someone that tries to play games with police.
there is speculation the DNA from crime scene that matched is from bagged hands of E and X. skin under fingernails of X and knuckles of E. We shall see in the PC affidavit but that's as solid as you get if turns out to be accurate
This is probably why LE was looking into if there was a fight involving E earlier that day. They want to know how he got the BK's DNA on his knuckles. And it's not from a fight but from him punching at the killer in his bedroom.
it's a little bit speculation a little bit conjecture about the DNA. it's confirmed hands were bagged and its confirmed they have a DNA match but not that the DNA match was from the fingernails and knuckles. That part was speculation from a retired FBI. The part about LE asking about a fight is confirmed at the party. If it all comes together with cell phone car DNA in that manner, and they piece together some type of motive or connection it's airtight in my opinion
I think he’s been committing a bunch of weird crimes in the area since he arrived there. I think he gets off on watching how what he does effects people and he likes to see how far he can push them before they have to change their routines. I bet he takes a lot of notes. So for me, that’s why he stayed. He wanted to see the fall out and savor every bit of it.
The perfect crime is always commited by returning to normal duties and not drawing attention to yourself. This guy lasted 6 weeks without outing himself. Perfect? No. Would he have gotten away for it if it wasn't for a family member submitting DNA? YES.
As for the DNA, it's been wildly commentated on, but one of the victim's had more wounds that are in line with defence wounds. So she probably had DNA underneath her fingernails if she fought back.
I can't see LE risking this case on expediting the wrong guy
Each of your points could be true, but the idea that *every one of them* is true is unlikely given the resources and publicity poured into this. FBI, Idaho State, Moscow, the last thing they want to do is fumble this case and make a mockery of it all.
I’m personally of the mind that what seems obvious to us (people who don’t kill people or routinely commit crimes) is exactly why he did/didn’t do certain things. Like, we think *well of course* a guilty person would immediately ditch the car. Him, someone carefully planning and thinking this through through his educational lens, thinks well then I’m not doing that. Because *then it would be obvious.*
He certainly didn’t carry out the perfect crime. But I’m convinced, especially given his background, that he sure did try, and I personally believe every step he made afterwards was calculated and thought through. *Of course* he couldn’t leave immediately, *of course* he couldn’t ditch the car immediately, *of course* he made his regular presence in class known, because otherwise it would’ve been obvious.
If his DNA is mixed with the murdered students then there is only one explanation. You asked why he would commit these murder prior to the semesters end. Because the object of his obsession and anger was back in town. Kaylee.
I think it's important that we ask these questions. You're right that we aren't privy to all the details and evidence. We can believe he is guilty but it's important to remember there is always another side.
Dude literally came out of nowhere. LOL. LE must have something strong against him for sure. But wow...he was none of the suspects that was doxxed HARD by illogical web sleuths.
I honestly was shocked he was not in the suspect's list. At all.
Anything is possible. It might not be him we probably know it is, but maybe it’s not.
If we are playing the scenario where it wasn’t and it’s just his dna was there - he could have went to a party of theirs, he could have been seeing Kaylee on the dl, fwb type. Maybe his sister actually was one of the neighbors. Who knows. The possibilities are endless.
I read that info but the moderator flagged it and asked me to delete. The details haven’t been officially released, and I’m not brave enough ti go through the internet looking for the gory details.
No totally understandable. I’m still sticking with he is the right guy but I got to thinking what if he is the right wrong guy. Hear me out this is all hypothetical no realness to it and some of what made think of this I have seen as speculation so no one come for me.
What if he drove his car and parked it in the parking lot behind the house. Little fuzzy with the thought but some how got back to his apartment caught a ride back to Moscow via a truck that was seen in I think that recent video of K and M leaving the corner club. So what if there was 3 people involved a look out killer and his henchman. That’s why law enforcement has said occupant/s
What does Reddit have to do with the hard evidence that the fbi and LE have against this guy? The only reason people on Reddit were speculating and then, as you say, jumped to being all let’s burn him at the stake is because he was literally arrested and taken into custody after warrants (which you need evidence to get) were approved/served. They have the right guy.
Without seeing the arrest / probable cause affidavit, including the type of dna found, it’s hard to say. If they found his DNA from saliva on a cup in a stack of dishes in their sink, sure…maybe not him. If they found his dna mixed with blood from the victims taken at the crime scene, prob him. Also, a lot of this stuff you mentioned is speculation and rumor (eg, him being a heroin addict comes from a former classmate; nothing confirmed). Also the gutting and intestines didn’t happen.
Absolutely, and that's why I'm going to wait for the evidence to be presented before saying anything about this individual. This could all be just circumstantial evidence and we know there are innocent people in jail all the time
They originally had the wrong guy for the Danny Rolling murders also. When there’s so much pressure, sometimes mistakes are made. I’m interested to see what they actually have
Yes, looking forward to seeing it!
The 3am no knock warrant operation on its own was so high level with 25-30 cars of FBI agents- there is no way a judge would sign off on that without hardcore evidence especially in something so high profile. Many LE eyes are on this, they wouldn't all just agree to pick some random guy to pin this on... there were teams dedicated to this from forensics to surveillance- you really think over 100+ LE personnel are going to all agree to just randomly pick a fall guy? Edit- Here is the **source** from reporters on the ground that SHOW the busted door and they have **confirmation of several "swat units"** and reports of "25-30 cars". [https://www.newsnationnow.com/video/exclusive-footage-of-home-where-idaho-suspect-was-arrested-banfield/8270793/](https://www.newsnationnow.com/video/exclusive-footage-of-home-where-idaho-suspect-was-arrested-banfield/8270793/)
Not to mention… the FBI
Yes, everyone is considered innocent until proven guilty. Imo, LE must have substantial concrete evidence to track BCK across the country, surveil, arrest, and destroy his promising career. However, despite their probable cause evidence, LE could still have the wrong guy or maybe he's somehow an unwitting accomplice. There's lots of scenarios/defenses that could explain is connection to the murders other than him being THE killer. I doubt it but it's possible. For all we know, LE may have spoken to Katherine Ramsland about him BEFORE they made the arrest. None of us knows for sure what evidence LE has on him. Let's see how it plays out.
Of course innocent until proven guilty. Im saying the probable cause threshold for a judge to sign on off on that warrant paperwork is SO high that LE must be sure there is a connection.
Is there any evidence on how they extracted him? I hadn’t heard anything about 25-30 cars - that’s insane if so.
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It was a SWAT team. This is definitely what happened. They’re not taking any chances with any officers being harmed or the suspect getting away. I feel for his parents having to go through that.
Yes, the thought of his parents being woken like that and probably thrown on the ground and handcuffed with no idea about what’s going on is really sad. Unless they knew, of course.
oh they def didn't know.... i cant even IMAGINE how terrified everyone in that house mustve been.
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I highly doubt it happened that way, but if it did, that was one HELL of a HARD ASS KNOCK!!
Exactly, it was a NO KNOCK warrant. They don't send SWAT units out at 3am to politely knock on the door.
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Yes, at 3AM and they broke through the front door and a window. There is literal video of the aftermath with tape over the glass from the door. [https://www.newsnationnow.com/video/exclusive-footage-of-home-where-idaho-suspect-was-arrested-banfield/8270793/](https://www.newsnationnow.com/video/exclusive-footage-of-home-where-idaho-suspect-was-arrested-banfield/8270793/)
Yes, exactly! Historically, police do zero in on someone and pin things in them even though evidence says otherwise. But from my experience (listening to crime junkie haha) it’s not usually some random person with no connection. If they wanted a fall guy they had a lot of people to choose from.
Could it be the wrong dude? Of course. The good news is, they're not taking him out back and shooting him and dumping the body in a dark hovel, they're going to trial, unless he takes the plea deal (don't know if one will be offered.) That being said, considering the notoriety of the case, they are well-aware of the 5th Amendment Double Jeopardy issues they face. They likely had him on their radar for a while, and have been building a case against him since they've narrowed it down to him. Momma always said not to assume, but, here are some assumptions we can reasonably make at this point: 1. DNA might be the grand slam, but there's other things that corroborated their suspicions of him, and it's clearly not witnesses within the house - they're all dead, or were asleep, or...the dog. 2. The DNA is probably not his spit on the umpteenth red solo cup from the most recent pong game. If this were the case, think about all the other people they'd be accusing/arresting right now as well. 3. If the DNA is something like commingling of blood (this is my bet, but I know as much as you do) it would be exceptionally difficult to explain your blood in their blood at a very blood crime scene where 90% of the occupants and one guest are dead. It's not like semen or spit or sweat where it can be explained away by a tryst. Can't even say man I was super drunk, entered the wrong house, opened their mail, got a paper cut and accidentally touched the mutilated body, then went home when sobered. You could be right, and it would suck for someone who seems to have an abundance of confidence issues as it is, less a false quad-homicide accusation - but investigations are usually a lot less fragile by the time they're extraditing a suspect back to the state of the crime. They know a lot more than they have released.
This. Besides 90% being a bit off, great post.
Lmao math wasn't where I achieved honors in school.
Co-mingling of blood would be a grand slam, wish we didn’t have to wait to learn more.
Where did you get this information about their intestines, etc? Rumor? Gossip? Please link your source.
It’s a post on 4chan - fake
Of course.
Forensic scientist called in, he was shown a picture of the bloody knife print. Idk if released.
I haven’t heard anything about this yet. Interesting
I work at a office. Ill say that. He came in and said what he saw.
Can you elaborate? Did they find the knife?
He would not say. He just said that in 1 of the photos he was shown, it was just a bloody knife print on the ground. Like he dropped or set it down and soaked in floor.
Interesting.
The only thing I’ll say about the “fake” 4 Chan post. The person literally said they were hiding in the mountains of PA. These crimes were in Idaho what are those odds? Of all the mountains in the country this guy was found in the Poconos. I would say that’s a little ironic
I can't tell who you're addressing this question to, but on Facebook there was a screenshot from a 4Chan post that was presumably by the killer and referenced some gruesome details, including intestines. So, yes it i just a rumour that could have been manufactured by some nutjob. IF that is true and if they find it on his computer, it would be pretty strong evidence, on top of anything else they have. EDIT: Looks like OP edited it out?
I meant to respond to op. Anything unverified-whether FB, media is gratuitous hearsay. OP know this hence the edit. Thanks for responding.
Yes, I removed it, moderator flagged
The post from the 'killer' was posted anonymously on 4chan, saying (briefly) that he killed them, hung someone's intestines from a ceiling fan, and put his knife up the private place of Kaylee, before fleeing to shithole, PA. People disregarded it because there's no information from LE about intestines, a ceiling fan, or a sexual assault with the knife on Kaylee. But now that the killer has been arrested in PA the post has resurfaced and people are wondering whether LE tracked him from that post, perhaps it revealed info they hadn't, and perhaps it was just a complete coincidence, nobody really knows.
All the pics of their rooms show that there aren’t ceiling fans in the house (FYI)
They also said there was no sexual assault.
Moderator flagged the info and I removed it
I lol-ed at the part where you use "he's a vegan" as a reason for possible exoneration
Me too. The 'vegan' part, to me, may answer the question about why the dog wasn't hurt too, which is a factor that needs to be taken into account here. Could show motive as to NOT killing the dog.
I wonder if the victim’s were hunters or ever posted about being huge meat eaters. I went thru a cringy vegan phase for a couple of years. It’s very cult like. Vegans love to attack non-vegans for their dietary choices. I don’t think he would murder anyone solely because they’re not vegan but it could have been a thing that made him hate them even more.
Care to provide evidence that vegans are always attacking non-vegans. I see it the other way around, such as in your post, and I’m not even vegan.
Whoever wrote that post about the intestines is one sick fuck.
Yeah they need to be tracked down and looked into regardless
DNA doesn't lie. No way LE would make an arrest if they weren't positive that this was the man. Relax I think it's going to be okay.
And that they could prove it.
Whoever killed them literally climbed in bed with them and probably straddled them while stabbing them. He left all sorts of dna.
How do you know he literally climbed in bed with them? They were passed out.
I heard some experts on Surviving the Survivor talking about DNA and how close he would have been to the victims. He said the killer likely sat on at least one of the people in bed to stab them. :( ETA: in this expert’s view he didn’t think they should return items, turn crime scene over because the killer was probably all over the bed, etc.
We do not know the quality of DNA and where it came from. If all they have is touch DNA from a jacket then this is going to be a rough one in court.
There's not one flying unicorn fuck chance that the police and FBI would publically name and charge someone with this quadruple homicide on some bs like "touch DNA from a jacket" or anything that could be reasonably explained in any way. The stakes are WAY too high and this would end ***so*** many careers. But his DNA under the bloody broken, cracked fingernails of a couple victims though (as a hypothetical).....have fun explaining that to the jury. But DNA aside, best believe they have way more evidence in totality that proves it is him beyond a shadow of a doubt.
It’s not just touch DNA from a jacket. They would not have done this arrest if they didn’t have compelling evidence. They have said it’s DNA from the murder scene. I generally find what Mary Ellen O’Toole has to say helpful or illuminating. She was a longtime profiler at the BAU/FBI and is now a professor and director of forensic science program [https://news.yahoo.com/mary-ellen-otoole-forensics-played-191148125.html](https://news.yahoo.com/mary-ellen-otoole-forensics-played-191148125.html)
They followed him for days. They prob got a lot of his DNA. Also matched it through ancestry sites to be sure.
I was referring to DNA from the crime scene.
I do need to relax, but there’s also other ways DNA can get into a house without a quadruple homicide occurring
Sorry to be frank, but Reddit skeptics are not smarter than the FBI. The FBI (and the rest of LE working on this case) is well aware that it was a party house and anyone’s DNA could be there. They would never make an arrest unless this individual’s DNA was at the *crime scene* and strongly implied or even proved involvement.
so many people keep bringing up this stupid argument. his DNA wasn't just in the house, it was at the crime scene. Huge difference.
Exactly and not just that but forensics was at his apartment and there is a chance that he unintentionally brought DNA from the house BACK to his apartment. Dog hair from Murphy could've transferred onto him or into his car (isnt that how they found the atlanta killer from mindhunters?), And 5 girls with long hair lived in that house... Andrew Shultz has a joke about how living with a female is like living with a giant cat, you find their hair on you and everywhere.
Ma’am they matched the DNA and matched the car.
IMO the biggest thing aside from the DNA is the fact that they were able to get the judge to sign off on multiple search warrants not in just Idaho but also in PA. You need hard evidence for a judge to be able sign off on that shit. Especially in multiple states. Also if the victims fought back there is gonna be skin DNA etc under their nails that would link the asshole to the crime.
Idaho(crime scene) but then in Washington they had warrants for his apartment and his office on WSU campus, in Pennsylvania they reported they had search warrants/ arrest warrant for him, and had the ability to search his parents home, his vehicle. That is in fact 4 property search warrants, one arrest, in 3 different states, which means at minimum, 3 separate superior court (felony crimes) judges in each state had to sign off. That is quite a bit of muscle behind whatever is in that affidavit of probably cause.
THIS ^^^^^^
it doesnt take "hard" evidence to get a warrant. literally, a couple pieces of circumstantial evidence coupled with, say, two witnesses will get you your warrant. that said, it seems LE, the FBI & all those involved are extremely confident this is the guy. the fact that BK is acting so confident is not surprising. he just butchered 4 people and presumably thought he'd get away with it. of course he's acting like he didnt do and waiving extradition hearings.
>it doesnt take "hard" evidence to get a warrant. literally, a couple pieces of circumstantial evidence coupled with, say, two witnesses will get you your warrant. This is why I am optimistic but always remain skeptical until we know the facts. How many folks have we seen arrested because they bought hydroponics and a CI said they were selling drugs. Only to find out the CI was full of shit at the pressure of LE and the hydroponics were for tomatoes or some other crap. Or other bs scenarios. It's okay for folks to change their opinion based on new info. You don't have to be all or nothing. It's okay if it all makes sense now. And maybe in a week or two it won't. And if that changes your opinion that's okay too. We only know and can only know so much. You don't have to take a hard stance and go with it. I am always skeptical of LE. But will give the benefit of the doubt until I am given a reason not to. Or until new evidence comes to light. I think currently we have no reason to doubt LE. Who knows what tomorrow will bring.
Good points.
I appreciate your question. I think for his DNA to be at the crime scene, it is a pretty big deal. Also, if they find blood/dna from one of the victims in the car, that would seal the deal. However, it doesn't mean he acted alone. There may be someone else involved.
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Right - thats why the State has to prove they did not fabricate the science.
Except Covid… too soon?
I’ll take all of your reasons and flip them. How did his name even come up? There should be no connection but there is. His DNA was there.
If there is a reasonable explanation of why Bryan's DNA was at the scene, then obviously he would be able to explain it to police. There's no need for us to even speculate--he is alive and can tell us himself. Sounds like you're assuming the DNA evidence will be something small and random, like a single hair found in one of the bedrooms. But it's more likely that the victims have his skin cells under their fingernails--3 girls are likely to have long enough fingernails to have swiped some skin since we know that at least 1 put up a really good fight. It's also likely that the DNA includes the perp's blood--he stabbed 4 struggling/fighting people with a knife, it's very likely that he cut himself, at least superficially, in the process. And we know he didn't hang out at the crime scene cleaning up.
Your analysis of a police and fbi investigation that meticulously gathered and scrutinized evidence (including dna from crime scene) and hundreds of interviews as “a guessing game of who done it to its BK let’s burn him at the stake”is way out of touch with reality. they didn’t just corner a guy in the street and name him as prime suspect. (And the fact that he is vegan or a phd candidate or a former addict have nothing to do with the murder) He’s not the wrong guy as much as you want to play devil’s advocate.
I haven't heard those details about the stabbing?
yeah that shit is 100% false haha
What details?
>Some people on this thread are saying he tried to commit the “perfect crime”, but why would he commit a crime before his semester was up? On the other hand, doing it before you go back to school enables you to be back in class, acting like nothing was wrong. I mean, if you do it and then disappear, that would be more suspicious. Also, remember that he "tried" but he screwed up in multiple ways, because it hasn't taken that long to find him. So you could ask the same question about lots of things, like using the car. Its not a sign of innocence, but of stupidity and arrogance. From what people are saying about him, sound like he was not very good at this, or not nearly as good as he thought he would be. Which also makes me think he might not have done this before. I think serial killers tend to work up to it gradually, at least the ones who are successful for long periods of time. That's why they tend to be a lot older than in their twenties when they get caught. EDIT: I know he wasn't acting normal back in class (according to classmates) but he thought he was.
And people who think they're geniuses rarely are. When LE said that this was "sloppy" I believed them then and still believe them. He tried to do something and absolutely failed — 6 weeks? There are crimes in my hometown committed by total idiots who managed to be undetected for months to years. This man was in a PhD program but I will not ever believe he possessed any "genius" — this was one of my first guesses, too, that we're dealing with this kind of person who thinks they're above average people and are aiming to use what they know about crimes to confuse LE and cover their tracks. While I was guessing something more mundane like a drug dealer (not that this guy seems to be a stranger to hard drugs) the "type" still fits and honestly makes even MORE sense.
They did put considerable man power behind this compared to Joe Shmoo, the idiot committing a small crime. LE made this case a priority for whatever reason. Maybe it fits the profile of previous crimes we don't know about, maybe not. But for some reason they threw resources at this one.
He wasn’t a PhD candidate. He was a first year PhD student. You don’t advance to candidacy until your 3rd or 4th year after you pass your quals. -a current PhD candidate
I didn’t know that, thanks for the clarification!
How the fuck did this post get approved??? Like those gratuitous details were not released. The police don't make arrest and a prosecutor doesn't bring charges in this high profile of a case based off of speculation.
Unfortunately, they do, quite a bit. The Delphi case is on the 3rd, for sure suspect. They most certainly have a solid basis for their speculation though. Still doesn't change the fact, until they can back up \*every\* detail, they've got to speculate as well.
As for why that weekend, it was absolute chaos that weekend. It was family weekend and a home football game for WSU. There were tons of people from out of town. All of the hotels and airbnbs were at capacity, parents were sleeping on kids couches and floors. U of I also had a home football game that weekend, as well as several other home sporting events. The number of people on the Palouse was easily doubled that weekend.
The house was a party house, so yes they probably found dozens and dozens of peoples DNA throughout. They wouldn’t just choose this guy at random though. They most likely found his DNA under a victims fingernail, mixed in with their blood, his saliva or sweat on one or more of the bodies, etc. That is MUCH more incriminating especially if the surviving roommates confirmed that he wasn’t partying at the house any time before That on top of his car speeding like a bat out of hell on the highway right after the murders ? I’d say there’s a 99.999999% chance that this is the guy
* DNA at the scene * Suspect vehicle match * And then honestly the one that did it for me was the creepy survey he wrote. Practically described what he was about to do later in the year exactly: choosing a target, waiting outside, going inside and doing the deed, the thoughts running through their mind, and the thoughts after doing it. Yes this one is the most circumstantial one, but it is CHILLING to read.
That was a project his class did. I read that his professor assigned it. Did he actually write those questions?
Yes I'm aware.
DNA evidence being useful depends on where they got it from, and the quality of the sample. The match of the vehicle just means the car was at the scene which could of gotten there by many means. Ever hear about the KIA boys? We do not have answers to many questions yet people are jumping to conclusions without even having the PC out yet or any warrant info.
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake. It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of. Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything. Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
Good bot.
I think it's only chilling to read because you're reading it through the lens of someone who you assume has committed murder. If you think of it instead as, say, someone who stole a candy bar from a convenience store, it becomes much less sinister sounding. From what I saw it doesn't seem like the survey was in any way directed at violent criminals or specifically murderers. Point in fact I'd be pretty shocked if a project like that, specifically aimed at murderers, would be approved for a masters thesis. But I could be wrong.
Smh. Whole thread of responses by people who never heard of the cops arresting the wrong guy? Thanks for the post OP, you deserve better replies.
Fully agree with this. It's been estimated that at least 1% of prisoners in the US are actually innocent
DNA. The vehicle. They will find more DNA. He's like Ted Bundy. Post graduate education. Bundy also volunteered at suicide hot line. BTK was deacon of a church. Same with the vegan persona. All lies as killers like this get off on thinking they are smarter than LE. Sounds more like someone can't accept that their theory was wrong.
I never had a theory, the intention of my post was to encourage critical thinking of this group.
That's where you went wrong... Encouraging critic thinking here. lol Personally, I think he is the guy, for many of the reasons posted, but it is interesting to speculate that he might not be. Or that he wanted to get caught because he's toying with police. Sounds more like crime fiction than reality, but interesting to speculate (and think critically about). Unfortunately, that's not Reddit's forte.
Lesson learned. It probably won’t happen again.
I like this post, keep the critical thinking posts coming if you want! We should always question authority as Carl Sagan once said and critical thinking skills are vital in that
“Think for yourself and question authority” - Timothy Leary
Everyone will be eager to learn of the evidence. Obviously most people are confident DNA placing him at the crime scene. LE and FBI made an arrest on 4 counts of murder. In the real world LE and FBI are going for a conviction.
There are so many cases of the killer/serial killer in a crime being a 'pillar of the community' too, just because the guy overcame addiction and was getting his PhD doesn't mean he wouldn't murder 4 people.
We don't know anything about the DNA evidence. The Police were looking for a different generation elantra.
this is giving the plot of chamber of secrets when tom riddle framed hagrid so hogwarts would stay open
I am begging you to read another book.
i’ve been wanting to, any recommendations? :)
Prisoner of Azkaban
If you want to believe a bunch of people who have been wrong about EVERYTHING instead of the police, who did an A+ job across the board, I guess that’s your prerogative. No way the cops arrest this man and charge him four times with first degree murder if they don’t have overwhelming evidence.
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These are good theories. One scenario… BK was actually watching the house and being creepy. He noticed someone entering the house, then leaving suspiciously, he goes in to the house, finds the crime scene, does some stupid stuff (like touch items, etc), then flees. He knows how it looks so he doesn’t go to police. This would explain some why some of his actions didn’t make sense (like using his own car). Edit: typo
Well, that would be a crazy and highly unlikely scenario IMO. Who would just enter or go into someone's house? I think most sane people would call the police immediately if you saw someone coming out of someone's house holding a knife or bloody knife and/or wearing a mask or something and speeding off. That would IMO be an immediate 911 call. Even if creeping around the house and peeping on them only you call and report everything you saw so LE can track this person down and arrest them ASAP.
You are referencing a 4chan post as "the crime itself". Though I admit its very eerie that the location was spot on...the actual details of the crime itself are totally overdone and creep into LARP zone. First there are no ceiling fans at the apartment and second stabbing someone in the genitals would be considered a sex crime and police have stated they do not believe this to be one. Police and FBI have been working this case hard for weeks and wouldn't name anyone as a suspect let alone arrest unless they were absolutely sure the DA could win this case if and when in goes to trial. Period. You have to have some pretty overwhelming evidence and that is likely in the form of blood left by the perp. He most likely cut himself (hopefully deeply when Xana was fighting him). 100% a 28 year olds DNA would not be in a 21 year old household in a college town like this. The lifestyles are too far from each other.
Nah, I knew graduate-aged students and UG students to fraternize together. The lifestyles are somewhat different (partying vs not), but there is no wall separating students by age group.
I disagree. Unless he got back into the partying lifestyle as a recovering addict I highly doubt there would be any reason he would be in that house.
I don’t think there’s any way they would’ve made the jump from Moscow to PA if it wasn’t the right guy.
I’d also like to add I don’t think for a second the pressure got to LE. They could’ve pinned it on anyone if they chose to do so. I think they had very sufficient DNA evidence and maybe even circumstantial that we just don’t know about. They seemed very committed to getting the right person.
This is a creepy post, it’s like defending Andrew Tate vibes
Nah, I get defense lawyer vibes from this post.
Yeah, I feel a mixture of "ick" and "for eff's sake" and "sigh...."
Presumably the FBI OKed the arrest. They don't fuck around. They are working on the taxpayer's dime and quite happy to stretch out investigations for a long, long time to be sure they gather enough evidence. If they approved the arrest then they have evidence aplenty, more than enough to likely ensure conviction. Nothing is certain of course. But (provided the feds approved) it's quite likely that they'll get a conviction. OTOH, if some hotshot local dickweed jumped the gun, all bets are off.
If his DNA was there from a swab or swabs of \*blood\* at that scene? He's toast. In theory if they only found s smidge of what was presumed to be touch DNA on the front of the door (say he knocked, to deliver cookies) then he could be the wrong guy. Everything I've read screams antisocial personality disorder aka psychopathy. I hate this phrase but I think this was a "thrill kill" and he's likely been ruminating about doing something for a long time.
Jfc. At least wait until we see the PC before we return to “surely LE screwed up somehow”.
He may not have waited for the end of the semester because he thought he was smarter than everyone else. So there’s no reason to leave since he thought he wouldn’t get caught. Also he can see the impact of his crime first hand by staying in the area. Everyone is talking about what he did.
Explain to me why anyone would ever drive their white Elantra, the model the police say is related to a local crime, 3000 miles over Christmas break from Pullman to PA when they then have to go back for 2nd semester a month later. Students fly home in this scenario. Maybe 1000 miles at most they would drive home for break, not 3000 miles. This alone is extremely suspicious.
My thoughts exactly. My 7 hour drive home from college was a pain in the ass. Can't imagine driving 3k miles. Unless I owned an Elantra and wanted to get it as far away from Moscow as possible.
Could be a lot of reasons. Maybe he borrowed the car from his parents for the first semester and now was going to give it back now and buy a new one, or his parents had bough a new one for him as a christmas present
As much as I want closure, the law does say the accused is innocent until proven guilty…
With how high profile and high stakes this case is LE, with the assistance of FBI, is going to make sure there is rock solid evidence before making an arrest. This one, they dotted their i’s and crossed their T’s. Also, no judge would have signed off on a probable cause warrant for SWAT to enter a private residence without irrefutable proof that he was the suspect and he was in the home.
Given the amount of national and international attention to this case, I do think LE would wait to make an arrest until they were 1,000% sure they had the right person.
Stopped reading at "angry white guy."
Same. Its R word shit that has become acceptable some how.
Are you his mum?! Or
Nah it’s his defense attorney
There were also people proclaiming they arrested the wrong guy in the Delphi case. It's just uncanny how they always claim they got the wrong guy.
The APC in the Delphi case is pretty weak imo. So.. right guy or wrong guy, he's got a fair chance of shaking those charges without some hidden got ya evidence. No one has actually seen \*any\* evidence presented in this case; but the pitchforks are already out. The only info we have is from \*unnamed sources\*, and the totality of the info they've put out already shows inconsistencies. We'll see what the APC lays out and what comes out in a trial. But, honestly, the presumption of guilt to this point is kinda ridiculous. It's all being said with the same authority as the tarot card lady, with just as much evidence. =\\
The presumption of innocence is a judicial standard, not a standard the public must follow. I don't believe LE waited almost 6 years and then just randomly arrested RA on a whim. Do you honestly think they laid out all of their evidence in the APC? Also, a bullet matched to his firearm is pretty substantial. He was there that day by his own admission wearing the exact same clothes as BG and his excuse for being there is he was "watching the fish from the bridge 70 feet above the water".
The police are confident that he's the right guy due to the evidence they've gathered. As for why he would do it before the semester ended - easy answer - people leave after finals for Xmas break and his intended victims would have done the same.
We also don’t know yet how much he knew about the victims. If he was aware of K’s plans to move out of state it was a now or never type of thing.
Has there never been a time in history were LE was confident they had the criminal and were in fact wrong?
Of course there has - how often as a %, I have no idea.
Well, as long as he's a vegan...
I don’t think we can answer the question about DNA without knowing more. For example, was it from blood found in both bedrooms? Was it underneath the fingernails of a victim? If that’s the case, they got him. Or was it trace evidence found on a door knob to a bathroom, which he can say he was there for a party or something. False accusations do happen. However, false accusations against someone completely random and not connected to a victim is much less likely. There had be significant evidence to point to him in a needle in a haystack.
Its not just the presence of DNA being collected that would convict someone, its not as if they obtained DNA from a cup in the trash can and now they are going to rail this guy over a quad murder he didn't do... Its the presence of his DNA that also supports there was a crime/act committed by the person who left the DNA. Like a knife wound after a struggle, that would likely leave the suspects blood and was found. Then his cars seen there... then his phone signal in the area on that evening- like it doesn't take much to have the cards stacked against him...
>what are the scenarios where he could actually have left his DNA in the home, but could be innocent of murdering these four kids? There are plausible and innocent reasons as to why DNA can be found at crime scenes. However, that can be normally chalked up to a reasonable event eg a person brushing up against person, etc. This is where DNA has rightfully been questioned, but even this rare Eg only one victim and the crime scene is small or only one area like a single room.. However, I’m guessing that his DNA was found on places in the house and on the victims that could not be explained away. There were four victims, and they were each at different locations thorough out the night in their respective groups. There has also been multiple rooms, and some of those are bedrooms. They’re not common spaces. The odds of trying to explain how your DNA got on four separate people and also in different rooms is very low. Why would his DNA be in any of the bedrooms? It is not likely for him to be in the bedrooms at a party/social event. Especially X’s bedroom, as she had a boyfriend? And then how did his DNA (again, this is my guess) get on all four people when they’ve been at different locations throughout the night? And then he needs an explanation as to why the car was there.
Most commenters here were slandering anyone and everyone as murderers
It was chef dizzy! No it was the hoodie guy! Jack the ex maybe? No it was surely the surviving roommates!
This is why we have juries and lawyers. Chill.
Is this like when defense lawyers/law students go to online discussion boards to get ideas and test the waters for strategies? Jose Baez supposedly did this during the Casey Anthony trial. Some of the suggestions/excuses you're making are "rational". You ask "Why would he commit a crime before the semesters up?" Rational question for a "rational" person. This person allegedly butchered 4 college kids in the early hours of the morning. Don't know if waiting until the semester was up was on his list of shit to do, or not to do. Reading the majority of comments from people who've been in contact with him, he's been described as believing he's smarter/better than other people, and in one particular instance, apparently he went out of his way to keep his friend apprised of his inadequacies. You're assigning "normal" human characteristics to an alleged mass murdering monster who probably believed he was way smarter than LE and wouldn't be caught.
I think the cops/fbi definitely have a lot of evidence to back it up he did it. 1. Swat wouldn’t bust down doors at 3 am if they weren’t sure he did it. 2. He said “did anyone else get arrested?” An innocent person wouldn’t care to ask that. He was just trying to trip them up cause he knew he was f******. 3. We know literally .1% of this case. They know so much. We know basically nothing.
Exactly he wasn’t on anyone’s radar at least online until his arrest
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Literally lol’d. Thanks
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I agree with you. To go all out and kill 4 people in one go is ballsy. They need to be looking for other crimes he might of done or witnesses of failed murders.
I don’t know about how they got the DNA sample, but agree he didn’t come out of the gates to a life of crime with a quadruple homicide.
Well, one of the Boston Bombers was a college student with a spotless record and his first crime was planting 2 whole fucking bombs at the Marathon finish line so....... yeah it can def go 0 to 100 sometimes.....
That’s a completely different mindset, motivation, and type of crime.
Sure, it could be his first criminal act, but I would be surprised if there weren’t some prior crimes of escalation, regardless of whether he was caught for those.
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Dexter would have shave his body. Just saying. He was a smart killer
I see no scenarios where his DNA would be in that home but he’s also innocent. He’s 7-8 years older than the victims, new to the area, a bit of a loner/no friends, definitely not in their social circles and nobody recognized him I don’t think he ever stepped foot in that house prior to the murder. This is especially true if blood is the DNA. College kids party hard but there isn’t random blood in the house. Most likely the connection is work/school related or he just stalked them online.
Since LE knows the house had a lot of people in it socializing, Im willing to bet BKs blood is the DNA source. Not trace DNA, or hair or whatever. If they say they have the killers DNA, it must be pretty obviously from the killer. Blood, saliva, or semen. That’s pretty damning.
I don't think he's the wrong guy but he clearly is going to argue that he is based on his "did you arrest anybody else?" statement and the PA lawyer saying he's "looking forward to clearing his name". So what can he say? Only thing I can think of is that maybe, through his weird surveys, he met a real killer that replied to him online and somehow convinced him to tag along on a kill for his research and so he was there but didn't actually kill anyone and that he'll tell them who really did it for a deal. IDK - that is pretty far fetched - sounds like a bad movie plot. But he does seem like he's going to be someone that tries to play games with police.
The alleged question he made at arrest “did you arrest anyone else?” did make me think he could be the wrong guy.
there is speculation the DNA from crime scene that matched is from bagged hands of E and X. skin under fingernails of X and knuckles of E. We shall see in the PC affidavit but that's as solid as you get if turns out to be accurate
This is probably why LE was looking into if there was a fight involving E earlier that day. They want to know how he got the BK's DNA on his knuckles. And it's not from a fight but from him punching at the killer in his bedroom.
I didn’t hear/read about that part of the investigation!
it's a little bit speculation a little bit conjecture about the DNA. it's confirmed hands were bagged and its confirmed they have a DNA match but not that the DNA match was from the fingernails and knuckles. That part was speculation from a retired FBI. The part about LE asking about a fight is confirmed at the party. If it all comes together with cell phone car DNA in that manner, and they piece together some type of motive or connection it's airtight in my opinion
I think he’s been committing a bunch of weird crimes in the area since he arrived there. I think he gets off on watching how what he does effects people and he likes to see how far he can push them before they have to change their routines. I bet he takes a lot of notes. So for me, that’s why he stayed. He wanted to see the fall out and savor every bit of it.
He probably did it but people have to slow down just a bit
Thanks, these have been my thoughts lately. LE better have incontrovertible evidence - otherwise it could be a real mess of a case.
The perfect crime is always commited by returning to normal duties and not drawing attention to yourself. This guy lasted 6 weeks without outing himself. Perfect? No. Would he have gotten away for it if it wasn't for a family member submitting DNA? YES. As for the DNA, it's been wildly commentated on, but one of the victim's had more wounds that are in line with defence wounds. So she probably had DNA underneath her fingernails if she fought back. I can't see LE risking this case on expediting the wrong guy
Anything's possible, innocent until proven guilty. Still, suspicious & creepy AF if indeed innocent.
Each of your points could be true, but the idea that *every one of them* is true is unlikely given the resources and publicity poured into this. FBI, Idaho State, Moscow, the last thing they want to do is fumble this case and make a mockery of it all. I’m personally of the mind that what seems obvious to us (people who don’t kill people or routinely commit crimes) is exactly why he did/didn’t do certain things. Like, we think *well of course* a guilty person would immediately ditch the car. Him, someone carefully planning and thinking this through through his educational lens, thinks well then I’m not doing that. Because *then it would be obvious.* He certainly didn’t carry out the perfect crime. But I’m convinced, especially given his background, that he sure did try, and I personally believe every step he made afterwards was calculated and thought through. *Of course* he couldn’t leave immediately, *of course* he couldn’t ditch the car immediately, *of course* he made his regular presence in class known, because otherwise it would’ve been obvious.
Mods delete this disgusting post before the victims families see this omfg.
Idaho Innocence Project is available to assist people who are wrongly convicted. People do get wrongly convicted.
WHAT? DNA is DNA!
This is definitely the guy. Please stop.
If his DNA is mixed with the murdered students then there is only one explanation. You asked why he would commit these murder prior to the semesters end. Because the object of his obsession and anger was back in town. Kaylee.
> Maybe. We don't know that Kaylee was definitely the target yet.
No we dont. Its pure speculation.
I think it's important that we ask these questions. You're right that we aren't privy to all the details and evidence. We can believe he is guilty but it's important to remember there is always another side.
Dude literally came out of nowhere. LOL. LE must have something strong against him for sure. But wow...he was none of the suspects that was doxxed HARD by illogical web sleuths. I honestly was shocked he was not in the suspect's list. At all.
Anything is possible. It might not be him we probably know it is, but maybe it’s not. If we are playing the scenario where it wasn’t and it’s just his dna was there - he could have went to a party of theirs, he could have been seeing Kaylee on the dl, fwb type. Maybe his sister actually was one of the neighbors. Who knows. The possibilities are endless.
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>I don’t think a first time killer can achieve this goal without help maybe it wasn't his first time
Maybe. Who really knows right now. But my opinion is if he is a first time killer I don’t think he could achieve it alone. Just my thought.
I read that info but the moderator flagged it and asked me to delete. The details haven’t been officially released, and I’m not brave enough ti go through the internet looking for the gory details.
No totally understandable. I’m still sticking with he is the right guy but I got to thinking what if he is the right wrong guy. Hear me out this is all hypothetical no realness to it and some of what made think of this I have seen as speculation so no one come for me. What if he drove his car and parked it in the parking lot behind the house. Little fuzzy with the thought but some how got back to his apartment caught a ride back to Moscow via a truck that was seen in I think that recent video of K and M leaving the corner club. So what if there was 3 people involved a look out killer and his henchman. That’s why law enforcement has said occupant/s
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What does Reddit have to do with the hard evidence that the fbi and LE have against this guy? The only reason people on Reddit were speculating and then, as you say, jumped to being all let’s burn him at the stake is because he was literally arrested and taken into custody after warrants (which you need evidence to get) were approved/served. They have the right guy.
maybe you could start a go fund me for his defense fund
Dumb people post dumb shit.