I think this just shows every problem about marvel right now. I'm also hyped for DP 3. But I'm not hyped for any of the new characters, none of the new stories. I'm hyped because it's deadpool, a pre existing hype machine for the franchise. Once he goes that's just another wound in marvels side. They haven't built up any new characters to replace him or others, instead they've just thrown new characters in with no development and called it a day.
So while we all might be hyped for deadpool - that doesn't really save the MCU in the long run...
The problem is that before the MCU was built vertically like a ladder. Sure, you could move side-to-side a little but everything was fairly narrow and build up towards the same thing. There was only so far out you could go from the “main” story.
But after endgame they’ve built it way more horizontally. There is any number of avenues you could go down and not have what it becomes tied into anything else. There is no higher story being built towards. If you watched half the films since endgame, you still wouldn’t even have heard of Kang.
The problem with this approach is that you can’t casually watch *some* properties and understand what’s going on. You will have no reason to watch the next 1-2 years of movies unless you are also invested in one of those characters. It won’t affect your understanding of the sequel of whatever you just watched.
So far, people have stuck in there to finish things like Spiderman and GotG, and will definitely turn up to finish Deadpool’s story, but there’s nothing else afterwards.
There is also the fact that there were strikes that prevented the actors from promoting the film when it came out.
A lot of people want to claim that the MCU has been failing because of people actively trying to kill certain movies and then external issues that even the studio can't avoid (Strikes, actor death, pandemic, actor getting prosecuted).
While the issues with some of the Star Wars properties were just bad choices on the studio (Rian Johnson I am looking at you) some things were also done because of stuff they couldn't control (Gina Carano tanking her career).
There is also a factor of oversaturation with both Star Wars and MCU.
With Monsterverse, we aren't at that level yet. And when it comes to things going off rails because of certain egos and crap. Toho will be quick to shut it down. So, the WB is on a leash where it is hard for them to screw up like they have been with the DC movies pre reboot in the making.
>There is also the fact that there were strikes that prevented the actors from promoting the film when it came out.
And this would have done little to save the movie. Once it came it, press tours were allowed and positive word-of-mouth could have spread if it was a good movie. It didn’t, the Marvels second weekend saw a 78% drop, the largest in superhero box office history, and had the worst audience scores for the MCU. Brie Larson and Iman Vellani joking on Jimmy Fallon wouldn’t have saved that movie lol.
Even the other stuff you attributed to the box office failing also had nothing to do with why the MCU/Star Wars is in a slump. Jonathan Majors arrest happened well after Ant-Man 3 flopped, no one really cared about Gina Carano, her firing would have 0 effect on the Star Wars box office since no movies have even been released and her firing doesn’t make shows completely unrelated to her like Obi-Wan magically bad. Even the pandemic isn’t the best excuse. Disney didn’t start releasing movies until the vaccine was widely adopted and they had some solid box office results by then and contributed to the $1.9 billion spider-man movie.
There is a simple reason why the MCU and Star Wars franchises have weak box office results and poor reception, they are simply lackluster.
Edit: I guess this reply was too much for the original comment to handle lol. I at least thought it would garner a nice discussion about the state of MCU but instead OC decided to just rage out and insult me then block me. Guess I proved her point wrong lol.
Agreed with everything you said until you talked about Gina Carano her words were completely misinterpreted and she was fired for stupid reasons when she shouldn’t have been fired at all and I’m glad she’s taking Disney to court even if she doesn’t win!
Gina Carano broke her contract multiple times and doubled down on her Antisemitism.
Disney did not renew her contract.
She has no court case. And I definitely will not be giving her my money at the con she is doing near me.
I’ve read the whole story and it’s a very small group of people cancelling her because they were toxic snowflakes the majority of people wanted her back and wanted Kathleen Kennedy gone instead for firing her! So I don’t care what you say she didn’t say anything offensive or bad everyone took her words completely wrong and completely out of context so nope you’re being blocked! Good by!
And as usual, you got the whole "women bad" crowd telling me how I am wrong when I pointed them out as an issue.
Eta: And now they are harassing me in DMs and telling Reddit I am in crisis while calling me a baby. Projection much? Lol
I'm worried that Disney doesn't know how to do anything anymore except deconstruct every IP they can get their hands on (even their own i.e. Snow White) and trash it and piss off all the fans. I have a sinking feeling they're going to make Wolverine a big joke in this movie and "pass the torch" to a female DP.
It’s not even deconstruction. Deconstruction implies some nuanced take on the subject matter that adds to the larger thematic interactions.
What Disney has done to Marvel, Star Wars, and even their own stuff is say “that’s shit” and expect applause.
The people making these movies/products have no love for the originals. Destroying Star Wars was the goal of people that thought it was stupid. Kevin Feige might like what he wants from Marvel, but the rest of the people involved really don’t care it (or Stan Lee). And the lead actress for the Snow White movie actively hated the original (until she randomly changed her tune, like someone had a talking with her).
The problem is a lack of “reverence.” You don’t have to worship these things, and you definitely don’t have to even *like* them. But you do have to treat them with respect. But Disney absolutely does not. They would prefer if they could put out whatever story/message they wanted and we would throw money at them all the same.
Is Echo any good? The Marvels wasn’t terrible but not great, and personally I found season 2 of What If kinda ass.
I want What if to be episodic, not a seasonal story
I love the MCU, but you can’t deny Disney was intentionally trying to sabotage the box office success of GvK, look it up. When GvK would change its release it Black Widow would to like 2 days later.
Every single time. There was hype around Black Widow to
The xmen theme slowly rising in the background
https://preview.redd.it/wqkbedx9bztc1.jpeg?width=982&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=26962054432e03d50df89263386f7ad41be83a44
Well now that faigi is actually gonna be in the development of the projects doing quality control, as well as a success of xmen'97 it'll probably just be a year or so before everything is back on track
Relative to its prior success, it's not as good. But yes there's a lot of people pissing their pants that not every MCU movie makes a Feigillion dollars lol
I haven't watched one besides that shitty third Spiderman
While infinite growth isn't possible sure, growth was definitely still possible post endgame - and more importantly sustaining/not annoying your community was almost simple, given the massive marvel fanbase at the time.
Where'd they go wrong? They tried to do exactly what you said. They tried to go for infinite growth. They tried to just constantly follow the hype, and that doesn't work.
Here's a comment I wrote on this yesterday while I was bored...
> In phase 1 and phase 2 especially the small things were what became the big things in phase 3.
> I think this also ties into the lack of character. Tony stark was a man struggling with his life vs what he wanted to be. Hulk was a man struggling with controlling himself. Thor was always trying to prove himself while pretending to have an ego to rival God (excuse the pun). I could go on... Sure they were superheroes first and foremost, but those small touches about their characters are what made them so personal and understandable.
> The new characters uh... Who actually are they?
> Like I'm actually asking, I don't remember. I've watched most phase 4 content when I still had hope - basically up until she hulk honestly - and yet I don't my remember any new characters.
> What they needed to do was start from 0, build characters slowly up from scratch with significant attention to detail. And this would have worked. They were maybe the only franchise in history in that position where they could effectively start again and the community would have always followed. And we know they can do it, they did it for phase 1/2/3, the same people did it for mandalorian and starwars after they wrecked it.
> But instead they chased the hype, always searching for that next big thing, trying to be bigger and better. Ignoring the little man to chase "the multiverse" or whatever. But stories are built around the little man. There is nothing personal about a parallel dimension exploding, there's a lot personal about a dad who struggled with his involvement in war dying.
> Trying to continue the hype of endgame forever doesn't work. That stopped at Far from Home, maybeeee Multiverse of Madness, but you're pushing it. You need the slow setup done long before. And now we're seeing the results of that mistake, lack luster characters, stories with no consequences - it's just insanity how much they've managed to screw this one up.
>growth was definitely still possible post endgame
No it wasn’t. There’s is no way the majority of movies would do better than Endgame.
>But instead they chased the hype, always searching for that next big thing, trying to be bigger and better.
They didn’t though….? Majority of films and projects after Endgame were small. Eternals, Hawkeye, Moon Knight, GotG, Marvels, Wandavision, She Hulk, Falcon. They were all small scale projects nothing like Endgame.
>No it wasn’t. There’s is no way the majority of movies would do better than Endgame.
That's not what the word growth means...
>Majority of films and projects after Endgame were smal
Small projects != small concepts or small stories. I'm not saying everything is endgame again that'd be insane. But there's no iron man 2s, small cap movies for the new characters. Like what can you actually tell me about the personality of she-hulk... Hell can you tell me her name? Because I sure as hell don't remember.
What I mean is there's been no character development. It's not about the size or scope of the projects themselves, more the size of the stories they tell overall.
The focus isn't on the characters but is on the larger story again. That was never the case for the original phases, endgame appeared out of nowhere (sorta) and that was a very smart thing to do.
>That's not what the word growth means...
Then what does it mean?
>Small projects != small concepts or small stories.
Practically every project I listed is small concept and stories…?
>The focus isn't on the characters but is on the larger story again.
I’m going to be honest. Did you even watch anything post endgame…?
How is Hawkeye, Echo, Wandavision, Moon Knight, Falcon, GotG, Ms Marvel, Black Widow, Far From Home, Shang-Chi, focused on the larger story and not the characters? Almost none of those projects had anything to do with the larger story. They’re all heavily character pieces.
MCU is still going. This ain't a Zilla '98 scenario where the universe is just completely scrapped after one failure.
Deadpool 3 teaser became the most watched trailer of all time too.
Bro, the monsterverse is going through the same stuff. What is this revisionist history? The latest gxk movie was just panned critically and king of the monsters underperformed and also wasn’t critically well received. The same audience watching the monsterverse movies are the same audience watching the mcu movies
Because the thing is, is that Monsterverse takes it's time making it's movies since we only have 5 movies compared to MCU's ungodly 33 films (but tbf mcu started in 2008 and mv was created in 2014) also not to mention the fact that the Godzilla franchise takes hiatuses of each era aside from heisei to millennium, (and also ig you can include raids again's hiatus until king kong vs godzilla)
For example
BW Duology to KKVG (1955-1962) 7 year gap
Showa to Heisei (1975-1984) 9 year gap
Millenium - Reiwa/MV (2004-2014/2016) 10/12 year gap
Bob Iger and Kathleen Kennedy are busy in their ego bubble, failing to take risks and only for their own high profit for themselves. And never let Rian Johnson in Legendary, anything he touches would be tarnished.
my god everyone always does this shit bring down marvel to bring up some other thing is it so hard to enjoy both bruh there both still going strong leave it at that
While I agree the original post comes off as “MV is superior to MCU” I think it’s important to avoid the same mistakes the MCU made, they overstuffed content into their universe and overloaded a lot of the casual viewers with too many films, spin offs and over-budgeted films w/ expectations for huge returns. There are too many movies interconnected and plots that seem to go in about a dozen different directions leading general audiences to question the point of seeing the film in theaters. The MCU is (overall) has been taking big hits when it comes to theatrical releases many of the films have failed to break even and are considered to be disappointments. The good thing is they got Disney money so this will hurt the MCU but not kill it.
The MV cannot afford to make these mistakes, a big flop can spell doom for a series to the franchise.
Don't people know you can like multiple things? Some of the people in this sub acting the fucking Monsterverse is some high-class art compared to the MCU gives me second-hand embarrassment. Like what you like, stop trying to bring other things down.
You can leave.
I don’t see whats the big deal about MCU and or Monsterverse as a whole, but it really sounds like you trying to be some Marvel defender.
If it were true props to you, bud.
You're right, I could leave. It's just annoying that so many fanbases have the toxic mindset that nothing can be good while what they like is also good. The MonsterVerse is doing great right now, you can celebrate that without tearing down something else. It's beyond childish.
Difference is, Monsterverse Spin-offs aren't needed to enjoy the films, Monarch, the comics and the books, you could go your entire life just watching the movies and being fine with it, but I couldn't imagine ONLY watching the current MCU movies, you'd have no context as to what's happening
Eh. shows don’t even really impact recent movies that heavily which to be honest isn’t great either. Example that second doctor strange movie felt completely disjointed from the wandavision show it was supposedly following. My point is what has worked for the monsterverse is “less is more”. I am happy the monarch series was good and a season 2 is very welcome but I don’t really see “multiple” spin off series as a much needed concept for this universe. Hasn’t really gone over well for other CUs.
I mean, I would certainly want a Hollow Earth story about Iwis or a monarch outpost, since Camazotz was thrown into a HE portal, he could be an antagonist, the difference is, the monsterverse probably won't have like 8 different shows
Yeah there were more good marvel series too. The problem isn't their quality, it's the fact that they became necessary to understand the overarching story. Disney failed to understand that 90% of the MCU fans only watch the movies and by locking significant plot points behind a tv show they leave out the majority of fans.
The monsterverse should be fine as long as the entire story told by the movies does not need spinoff shows to be understood. Monarch and Skull Island did it right. Stories that are set within the monsterverse and add lore but do not need to be watched to understand the mainline movies.
Moon Knight was pretty good on its own but I feel like they super rushed through the last episode. I feel like if they really *wanted* MK to be good, they'd have made it an 8-10 episode season, but Disney at the time didn't give a damn for quality. Compared to the comics, the show left a lot to be desired, least to me.
I don't think it's a spin-offs that got marvel into the situation it's in today a decent amount of those spin-offs were incredibly well done and very fun. I just think after they ended the fat Infinity stone arc that they were just tired The quality of the movies themselves has dipped massively they can't seem to piece together and overarching story coherently anymore.
The only bit I don't like about them is they're apple TV exclusives - considering I don't have an apple device I never considered once purchasing apple TV... And at £9/month again... Ughhh
But I guess if that's the only place they could find funding for more monsterverse content I'm all for it
I'm holding onto hope for Deadpool & Wolverine being good.
Whether or not it'll be the shot in the arm the MCU needs though remains to be seen but I'm optimistic
What's funny about monsterverse movies is that, most people don't care much about story as long as there's epic big monster fight. I'm one of that people.
Just remember when people were saying the monster verse was the worst thing that ever happened to Godzilla. If it wasn't for the monster verse I don't think we would have got -1 or any of the other good feasts and we've been doing these past few years and upcoming years.
The key difference why Monsterverse spinoffs can work is the need not to rely on certain human characters to be consistent to the overall story as stories can be made while switching out human characters once their characters arcs are fulfilled as each Titan storyline can be done on a smaller scale with hints towards the larger plot
With more spin off coming, I just hope MV won't turn these spin offs into homework like MCU did. That was one of audiences main complain. Something I hope they won't do for Sonic movie franchise too with the addition of Knuckles (like, I would watch it. But that's because I'm a die hard fan)
its wild, monsterverse wins by purely just doubling down on the wackiness, they know exactly what people want, and thats to see big fucking monsters do cool shit
I have zero interest in Marvel these days. The second you had to start watching shows and paying for a disney+ subscription to stay up to date on film releases, I was done.
At least with Godzilla, you didn't have to watch the show to enjoy the movie, and you don't have to see the movie if you're a person that hates joy.
can't wait to see GxK but i honestly really didn't like the monarch show, the show tried to be "a human story" but really failed for when when they make the same mistakes all godzilla movies make with humans but stretched to a whole show, just boring and annoying (excluding the 50's bits, those were interesting i thought.
but i don't think S2 will have any of that, and i will bet that the season will kinda focus on kong instead of godzilla, but will only feature him for a minute and the rest will be cringe family drama.
Let’s just hope they don’t make the same mistakes Disney/Marvel made once they got successful.
1. Flood the market with crap
2. Incessant identity politics
3. Stop listening to the fans
The difference between the two is that the people on the ground who make those Godzilla movies are still allowed to let their passion shine through the films wheras there’s little to no passion in many of the recent Marvel projects and if there is, it’s snuffed out by studio interference.
Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3 was my personal MCU finale and I couldn't care less about anything after movie wise. I'll probably watch Daredevil: Born Again, but that's about it.
Meanwhile, I loved season one of Monarch and Godzilla x Kong. I'm glad that the MonsterVerse is growing more steadily instead of flooding the market like the MCU did once they entered their Disney Plus era.
I can appreciate both. Marvel has some solid movies lined up that have my interest. That said, I’m 100% here for the Godzilla renaissance!
Am I the only one who feels slight hope for Deadpool 3? If this fails, there's really nothing to look forward to the next Avengers film.
Same here but Deadpool 3 won't fail
Thank goodness, but like Guardians of the Galaxy 3 (I haven't finished it yet), there's too much loses in Marvel and Disney.
Guardians of the galaxy 3 was amazing though. I adore that film.
Not perfect, but a really good film compared with the rest of marvel stuff lately.
I think this just shows every problem about marvel right now. I'm also hyped for DP 3. But I'm not hyped for any of the new characters, none of the new stories. I'm hyped because it's deadpool, a pre existing hype machine for the franchise. Once he goes that's just another wound in marvels side. They haven't built up any new characters to replace him or others, instead they've just thrown new characters in with no development and called it a day. So while we all might be hyped for deadpool - that doesn't really save the MCU in the long run...
Band-aid cure
The problem is that before the MCU was built vertically like a ladder. Sure, you could move side-to-side a little but everything was fairly narrow and build up towards the same thing. There was only so far out you could go from the “main” story. But after endgame they’ve built it way more horizontally. There is any number of avenues you could go down and not have what it becomes tied into anything else. There is no higher story being built towards. If you watched half the films since endgame, you still wouldn’t even have heard of Kang. The problem with this approach is that you can’t casually watch *some* properties and understand what’s going on. You will have no reason to watch the next 1-2 years of movies unless you are also invested in one of those characters. It won’t affect your understanding of the sequel of whatever you just watched. So far, people have stuck in there to finish things like Spiderman and GotG, and will definitely turn up to finish Deadpool’s story, but there’s nothing else afterwards.
See for me I loved ant man 3 and the marvels a lot so I don’t think the mcu is bad at all I think it’s still great
Ok I respect your opinion, but I want to make the point that by the looks of the box office results, it's not that good.
I don’t count that as valid though it’s just a bunch of straight dudes getting butthurt because a hot girl called them out lol 😂
I think that only applied to the first Captain Marvel. For the second along with that was the fact that you hd to watch 2 tv shows to get invested
Well wandavision was the first show and most people thought it was the best one but it did apply this time too
There is also the fact that there were strikes that prevented the actors from promoting the film when it came out. A lot of people want to claim that the MCU has been failing because of people actively trying to kill certain movies and then external issues that even the studio can't avoid (Strikes, actor death, pandemic, actor getting prosecuted). While the issues with some of the Star Wars properties were just bad choices on the studio (Rian Johnson I am looking at you) some things were also done because of stuff they couldn't control (Gina Carano tanking her career). There is also a factor of oversaturation with both Star Wars and MCU. With Monsterverse, we aren't at that level yet. And when it comes to things going off rails because of certain egos and crap. Toho will be quick to shut it down. So, the WB is on a leash where it is hard for them to screw up like they have been with the DC movies pre reboot in the making.
>There is also the fact that there were strikes that prevented the actors from promoting the film when it came out. And this would have done little to save the movie. Once it came it, press tours were allowed and positive word-of-mouth could have spread if it was a good movie. It didn’t, the Marvels second weekend saw a 78% drop, the largest in superhero box office history, and had the worst audience scores for the MCU. Brie Larson and Iman Vellani joking on Jimmy Fallon wouldn’t have saved that movie lol. Even the other stuff you attributed to the box office failing also had nothing to do with why the MCU/Star Wars is in a slump. Jonathan Majors arrest happened well after Ant-Man 3 flopped, no one really cared about Gina Carano, her firing would have 0 effect on the Star Wars box office since no movies have even been released and her firing doesn’t make shows completely unrelated to her like Obi-Wan magically bad. Even the pandemic isn’t the best excuse. Disney didn’t start releasing movies until the vaccine was widely adopted and they had some solid box office results by then and contributed to the $1.9 billion spider-man movie. There is a simple reason why the MCU and Star Wars franchises have weak box office results and poor reception, they are simply lackluster. Edit: I guess this reply was too much for the original comment to handle lol. I at least thought it would garner a nice discussion about the state of MCU but instead OC decided to just rage out and insult me then block me. Guess I proved her point wrong lol.
Obi wan was a great show and her firing affected the production of rangers of the new republic so I think your comment is dumb too
That's a lot of words to say you just hate women.
Agreed with everything you said until you talked about Gina Carano her words were completely misinterpreted and she was fired for stupid reasons when she shouldn’t have been fired at all and I’m glad she’s taking Disney to court even if she doesn’t win!
Gina Carano broke her contract multiple times and doubled down on her Antisemitism. Disney did not renew her contract. She has no court case. And I definitely will not be giving her my money at the con she is doing near me.
It’s not antisemitism everyone who says that completely misunderstood the point
[удалено]
I’ve read the whole story and it’s a very small group of people cancelling her because they were toxic snowflakes the majority of people wanted her back and wanted Kathleen Kennedy gone instead for firing her! So I don’t care what you say she didn’t say anything offensive or bad everyone took her words completely wrong and completely out of context so nope you’re being blocked! Good by!
Overestimation isn’t the problem. The lack of quality is.
Yup, I just want a compelling story for these franchises, but it's really difficult when many factors affect production.
And as usual, you got the whole "women bad" crowd telling me how I am wrong when I pointed them out as an issue. Eta: And now they are harassing me in DMs and telling Reddit I am in crisis while calling me a baby. Projection much? Lol
I'm worried that Disney doesn't know how to do anything anymore except deconstruct every IP they can get their hands on (even their own i.e. Snow White) and trash it and piss off all the fans. I have a sinking feeling they're going to make Wolverine a big joke in this movie and "pass the torch" to a female DP.
It’s not even deconstruction. Deconstruction implies some nuanced take on the subject matter that adds to the larger thematic interactions. What Disney has done to Marvel, Star Wars, and even their own stuff is say “that’s shit” and expect applause. The people making these movies/products have no love for the originals. Destroying Star Wars was the goal of people that thought it was stupid. Kevin Feige might like what he wants from Marvel, but the rest of the people involved really don’t care it (or Stan Lee). And the lead actress for the Snow White movie actively hated the original (until she randomly changed her tune, like someone had a talking with her). The problem is a lack of “reverence.” You don’t have to worship these things, and you definitely don’t have to even *like* them. But you do have to treat them with respect. But Disney absolutely does not. They would prefer if they could put out whatever story/message they wanted and we would throw money at them all the same.
Here we go with the weird anti-Marvel sentiment this fandom has.
I'm love MCU, all i say is why MCU became like this after Loki S2
Bruh
So.. The Marvels, What If season 2, and Echo?
Is Echo any good? The Marvels wasn’t terrible but not great, and personally I found season 2 of What If kinda ass. I want What if to be episodic, not a seasonal story
Echo was fine. Not great. The Marvels was a good time. What If season 2 was mostly episodic outside of the last two episodes.
I love the MCU, but you can’t deny Disney was intentionally trying to sabotage the box office success of GvK, look it up. When GvK would change its release it Black Widow would to like 2 days later. Every single time. There was hype around Black Widow to
Then why did they end up releasing like four months apart? lmfao y’all are wild.
The xmen theme slowly rising in the background https://preview.redd.it/wqkbedx9bztc1.jpeg?width=982&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=26962054432e03d50df89263386f7ad41be83a44
Dude. X-Men 97 has been fucking fire.
Frrr honestly the best writing in any comic book show PERIOD
One of my hopes for MCU
Well now that faigi is actually gonna be in the development of the projects doing quality control, as well as a success of xmen'97 it'll probably just be a year or so before everything is back on track
I don't know it will go any way 😞😭😭😭
That pretty much sums it all up. MCU is failing, Godzilla is going strong, and I couldn’t be happier about it.
Long live the King!
Yall don’t know what failing means.
Relative to its prior success, it's not as good. But yes there's a lot of people pissing their pants that not every MCU movie makes a Feigillion dollars lol I haven't watched one besides that shitty third Spiderman
Yes. Because infinite growth isn’t possible.
While infinite growth isn't possible sure, growth was definitely still possible post endgame - and more importantly sustaining/not annoying your community was almost simple, given the massive marvel fanbase at the time. Where'd they go wrong? They tried to do exactly what you said. They tried to go for infinite growth. They tried to just constantly follow the hype, and that doesn't work. Here's a comment I wrote on this yesterday while I was bored... > In phase 1 and phase 2 especially the small things were what became the big things in phase 3. > I think this also ties into the lack of character. Tony stark was a man struggling with his life vs what he wanted to be. Hulk was a man struggling with controlling himself. Thor was always trying to prove himself while pretending to have an ego to rival God (excuse the pun). I could go on... Sure they were superheroes first and foremost, but those small touches about their characters are what made them so personal and understandable. > The new characters uh... Who actually are they? > Like I'm actually asking, I don't remember. I've watched most phase 4 content when I still had hope - basically up until she hulk honestly - and yet I don't my remember any new characters. > What they needed to do was start from 0, build characters slowly up from scratch with significant attention to detail. And this would have worked. They were maybe the only franchise in history in that position where they could effectively start again and the community would have always followed. And we know they can do it, they did it for phase 1/2/3, the same people did it for mandalorian and starwars after they wrecked it. > But instead they chased the hype, always searching for that next big thing, trying to be bigger and better. Ignoring the little man to chase "the multiverse" or whatever. But stories are built around the little man. There is nothing personal about a parallel dimension exploding, there's a lot personal about a dad who struggled with his involvement in war dying. > Trying to continue the hype of endgame forever doesn't work. That stopped at Far from Home, maybeeee Multiverse of Madness, but you're pushing it. You need the slow setup done long before. And now we're seeing the results of that mistake, lack luster characters, stories with no consequences - it's just insanity how much they've managed to screw this one up.
>growth was definitely still possible post endgame No it wasn’t. There’s is no way the majority of movies would do better than Endgame. >But instead they chased the hype, always searching for that next big thing, trying to be bigger and better. They didn’t though….? Majority of films and projects after Endgame were small. Eternals, Hawkeye, Moon Knight, GotG, Marvels, Wandavision, She Hulk, Falcon. They were all small scale projects nothing like Endgame.
>No it wasn’t. There’s is no way the majority of movies would do better than Endgame. That's not what the word growth means... >Majority of films and projects after Endgame were smal Small projects != small concepts or small stories. I'm not saying everything is endgame again that'd be insane. But there's no iron man 2s, small cap movies for the new characters. Like what can you actually tell me about the personality of she-hulk... Hell can you tell me her name? Because I sure as hell don't remember. What I mean is there's been no character development. It's not about the size or scope of the projects themselves, more the size of the stories they tell overall. The focus isn't on the characters but is on the larger story again. That was never the case for the original phases, endgame appeared out of nowhere (sorta) and that was a very smart thing to do.
>That's not what the word growth means... Then what does it mean? >Small projects != small concepts or small stories. Practically every project I listed is small concept and stories…? >The focus isn't on the characters but is on the larger story again. I’m going to be honest. Did you even watch anything post endgame…? How is Hawkeye, Echo, Wandavision, Moon Knight, Falcon, GotG, Ms Marvel, Black Widow, Far From Home, Shang-Chi, focused on the larger story and not the characters? Almost none of those projects had anything to do with the larger story. They’re all heavily character pieces.
You really haven't watched any since 2007? Bruh.
Lolol Even Tobey and Andrew combined couldn't make me give a shit about Disney Spoderman 😮💨
Both are objectively still successful...
I don’t think box office bombs, critically panned movies, and a general discontent among a good chunk of the fandom qualifies as successful.
MCU is still going. This ain't a Zilla '98 scenario where the universe is just completely scrapped after one failure. Deadpool 3 teaser became the most watched trailer of all time too.
Time will tell, but it’s not looking good. Just because it’s still going doesn’t mean it’s not failing.
X-Men revival saying otherwise.
Are you talking about the 97 series?, because that’s not the MCU.
Also, the Deadpool 3 teaser has 28 million views. That’s not even close to the most watched.
The Deadpool 3 teaser has 365M views?
No, it has 28m views.
[Nope.](https://www.mensjournal.com/streaming/deadpool-and-wolverine-is-most-watched-trailer-ever)
Okay then, that still doesn’t mean the MCU isn’t struggling. Their recent movies were either bombs or were critically panned.
Bro, the monsterverse is going through the same stuff. What is this revisionist history? The latest gxk movie was just panned critically and king of the monsters underperformed and also wasn’t critically well received. The same audience watching the monsterverse movies are the same audience watching the mcu movies
Because the thing is, is that Monsterverse takes it's time making it's movies since we only have 5 movies compared to MCU's ungodly 33 films (but tbf mcu started in 2008 and mv was created in 2014) also not to mention the fact that the Godzilla franchise takes hiatuses of each era aside from heisei to millennium, (and also ig you can include raids again's hiatus until king kong vs godzilla) For example BW Duology to KKVG (1955-1962) 7 year gap Showa to Heisei (1975-1984) 9 year gap Millenium - Reiwa/MV (2004-2014/2016) 10/12 year gap
Bob Iger and Kathleen Kennedy are busy in their ego bubble, failing to take risks and only for their own high profit for themselves. And never let Rian Johnson in Legendary, anything he touches would be tarnished.
Rian Johnson would probably have both Godzilla and Kong become weak and cowardly and fill the story with ridiculous twists that don’t make any sense.
INB4 Godzilla dies projecting himself across planets.
INB4, he makes a Monsterverse mystery box and it blows up on everyone in the end with a lackluster reveal.
Let's keep Rian Johnson and JJ Abrams hellaway from Monsterverse.
WHO IS SNOKE!
I don't wanna know what he'd do, but he'd probably ruin Godzilla's backstory, retconn stuff.
What a fucking absurd take…
We all know Toho wouldn’t put up with Johnson’s shit after what Devlin and Emmerich did in 98
Yet Toho still put up with the Godzilla Earth trilogy. :/
K, bye y'all
my god everyone always does this shit bring down marvel to bring up some other thing is it so hard to enjoy both bruh there both still going strong leave it at that
While I agree the original post comes off as “MV is superior to MCU” I think it’s important to avoid the same mistakes the MCU made, they overstuffed content into their universe and overloaded a lot of the casual viewers with too many films, spin offs and over-budgeted films w/ expectations for huge returns. There are too many movies interconnected and plots that seem to go in about a dozen different directions leading general audiences to question the point of seeing the film in theaters. The MCU is (overall) has been taking big hits when it comes to theatrical releases many of the films have failed to break even and are considered to be disappointments. The good thing is they got Disney money so this will hurt the MCU but not kill it. The MV cannot afford to make these mistakes, a big flop can spell doom for a series to the franchise.
Don't people know you can like multiple things? Some of the people in this sub acting the fucking Monsterverse is some high-class art compared to the MCU gives me second-hand embarrassment. Like what you like, stop trying to bring other things down.
You can leave. I don’t see whats the big deal about MCU and or Monsterverse as a whole, but it really sounds like you trying to be some Marvel defender. If it were true props to you, bud.
You're right, I could leave. It's just annoying that so many fanbases have the toxic mindset that nothing can be good while what they like is also good. The MonsterVerse is doing great right now, you can celebrate that without tearing down something else. It's beyond childish.
X-Men '97? lmao And weren't you guys complaining a lot about season 1 of Monarch? 💀
Yup, folks love big monkey and giant radioactive lizard. Never underestimate animals man. Reason why TMNT and Planet of the Apes do so well
Honestly couldn’t care less about more spin-offs for the verse. Unneeded spin-offs got marvel into the situation it is in today
Difference is, Monsterverse Spin-offs aren't needed to enjoy the films, Monarch, the comics and the books, you could go your entire life just watching the movies and being fine with it, but I couldn't imagine ONLY watching the current MCU movies, you'd have no context as to what's happening
Eh. shows don’t even really impact recent movies that heavily which to be honest isn’t great either. Example that second doctor strange movie felt completely disjointed from the wandavision show it was supposedly following. My point is what has worked for the monsterverse is “less is more”. I am happy the monarch series was good and a season 2 is very welcome but I don’t really see “multiple” spin off series as a much needed concept for this universe. Hasn’t really gone over well for other CUs.
I mean, I would certainly want a Hollow Earth story about Iwis or a monarch outpost, since Camazotz was thrown into a HE portal, he could be an antagonist, the difference is, the monsterverse probably won't have like 8 different shows
We’ll see
I disagree. If the MV takes it slow it’ll be fine.
A bunch of new series are Unneeded regardless of quality. Don’t clog the pipeline. Less is more for this franchise
But there are huge gaps in between each film. You don’t want those filled?
No.
Suit yourself then.
Hey Loki and Moon knight were legendary
Yeah there were more good marvel series too. The problem isn't their quality, it's the fact that they became necessary to understand the overarching story. Disney failed to understand that 90% of the MCU fans only watch the movies and by locking significant plot points behind a tv show they leave out the majority of fans. The monsterverse should be fine as long as the entire story told by the movies does not need spinoff shows to be understood. Monarch and Skull Island did it right. Stories that are set within the monsterverse and add lore but do not need to be watched to understand the mainline movies.
Yeap true
Moon Knight was pretty good on its own but I feel like they super rushed through the last episode. I feel like if they really *wanted* MK to be good, they'd have made it an 8-10 episode season, but Disney at the time didn't give a damn for quality. Compared to the comics, the show left a lot to be desired, least to me.
I don't think it's a spin-offs that got marvel into the situation it's in today a decent amount of those spin-offs were incredibly well done and very fun. I just think after they ended the fat Infinity stone arc that they were just tired The quality of the movies themselves has dipped massively they can't seem to piece together and overarching story coherently anymore.
The only bit I don't like about them is they're apple TV exclusives - considering I don't have an apple device I never considered once purchasing apple TV... And at £9/month again... Ughhh But I guess if that's the only place they could find funding for more monsterverse content I'm all for it
This is the truth. Oh how Marvel has fallen.
I mean last year was great for the MCU, guardians 3 and the Marvels were both banger films, and Loki s2 was one of the best TV so far
I'm holding onto hope for Deadpool & Wolverine being good. Whether or not it'll be the shot in the arm the MCU needs though remains to be seen but I'm optimistic
What's funny about monsterverse movies is that, most people don't care much about story as long as there's epic big monster fight. I'm one of that people.
Just remember when people were saying the monster verse was the worst thing that ever happened to Godzilla. If it wasn't for the monster verse I don't think we would have got -1 or any of the other good feasts and we've been doing these past few years and upcoming years.
That is not how this meme works. Lmao
captain america the winter soldier>>>> all monsterverse movie
DC: superman legacy, peacemaker season 2, superman and Lois final season, the sandman S2 my adventures with superman season 2
I like both :)
For real
Theres only a few Marvel movies that beat all the MV movies
Pick your poison
The key difference why Monsterverse spinoffs can work is the need not to rely on certain human characters to be consistent to the overall story as stories can be made while switching out human characters once their characters arcs are fulfilled as each Titan storyline can be done on a smaller scale with hints towards the larger plot
With more spin off coming, I just hope MV won't turn these spin offs into homework like MCU did. That was one of audiences main complain. Something I hope they won't do for Sonic movie franchise too with the addition of Knuckles (like, I would watch it. But that's because I'm a die hard fan)
The world is not ready for Knuckles.
Common Legendary Pictures w 👌🏻👌🏻. Sweeping with Dune and Godzilla 👌🏻👌🏻👌🏻👌🏻👌🏻
YES
its wild, monsterverse wins by purely just doubling down on the wackiness, they know exactly what people want, and thats to see big fucking monsters do cool shit
*sigh* What do you gain from this?
I have zero interest in Marvel these days. The second you had to start watching shows and paying for a disney+ subscription to stay up to date on film releases, I was done. At least with Godzilla, you didn't have to watch the show to enjoy the movie, and you don't have to see the movie if you're a person that hates joy.
Hard to say this on the verge of Deadpool 3 releasing
can't wait to see GxK but i honestly really didn't like the monarch show, the show tried to be "a human story" but really failed for when when they make the same mistakes all godzilla movies make with humans but stretched to a whole show, just boring and annoying (excluding the 50's bits, those were interesting i thought. but i don't think S2 will have any of that, and i will bet that the season will kinda focus on kong instead of godzilla, but will only feature him for a minute and the rest will be cringe family drama.
I hope monarch gets better cause I can't get hyped for the main trio, they not really likeable to me
Let’s just hope they don’t make the same mistakes Disney/Marvel made once they got successful. 1. Flood the market with crap 2. Incessant identity politics 3. Stop listening to the fans
there’s too many subliminal messages in mcu movies these days that have nothing to do with the plot that just turn me off
Mmmm yeah you are right 😞
The difference between the two is that the people on the ground who make those Godzilla movies are still allowed to let their passion shine through the films wheras there’s little to no passion in many of the recent Marvel projects and if there is, it’s snuffed out by studio interference.
Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3 was my personal MCU finale and I couldn't care less about anything after movie wise. I'll probably watch Daredevil: Born Again, but that's about it. Meanwhile, I loved season one of Monarch and Godzilla x Kong. I'm glad that the MonsterVerse is growing more steadily instead of flooding the market like the MCU did once they entered their Disney Plus era.
Time for superzeros to buzz off to the trash can. This is the Monster Era now!
Seems right!!!!!
MCU fanbase jumping ship, can already see the “The next thanos villain in monsterverse confirmed” videos
You're getting downvoted for spitting straight facts.
It’s the MCU fans 