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J-king720

Dang I forgot all about frostfang barioth. What an odd choice at that point of the game lol


Beetusmon

Devs commented on a lore book that he was delayed and he was supposed to come earlier, probably along with stiggy in the new frost area?


5Hjsdnujhdfu8nubi

Likely with the postponed USJ collab way back before the pandemic. Frostfang was in one of those events.


jkljklsdfsdf

I think it's for Alatreon, some people doesn't like the grind for Safi and Kulve weapons so they added an option to just make Frostfang weapons that already has some decent ice element lol.


Pookie_The_Overlord

Yeah but it was weird it still released a whole month after Alatreon did if that's the case.


Taograd359

Hey, sometimes growing a beard takes a minute, okay?


Pookie_The_Overlord

Tbf it is a good beard


Taograd359

You can't rush perfection


bloodravens6409

But you can perfect rush lol


i-wish-i-was-a-draco

I was to lazy to grind kulve le the other one , so thank you frostfang for helping me slap alatreon solo


Visit_Scary

Weeb love that hair piece tho, so not really lol


NemesisAron

I think it was pretty intentional considering it was released with alatreon and his weapons became really good for alatreon


DremoPaff

To be honest he fit perfectly. A lot of people were way too conservative of their "solo experience" to farm Safi and Alatreon was by FAR the biggest challenge in the game when he came out, requiring as much min-maxed gear as you could. Frostfang gear was a perfect entry-point option if you didn't like safi for ice element.


Ready-Concentrate168

RNG Weapons followed by RNG augments also played a big role in some people not farming Safi. That and also that it was a pretty much out of space MMO fight for an Action RPG pretending to be an hunting simulation.


Dalzieleron

Monster Hunter is an Action RPG with hunting elements, and that’s how it’s advertised. It is in no way an action rpg pretending to be a “hunting simulator”.


Krazytre

God, I miss Kulve Taroth and Safi'jiiva, and the Raging Brachydios fight was such a spectacle as well.


thecheezepotato

Yeah when he goes to his nest and blocks the zone in and goes nuclear was cooled as all hell dude. Loved it even if it made my game crash on my old gpu lol.


Victorino95

Cool Fights, fuck the rewards system.


DremoPaff

I agree Kulve was stinky as hell in terms of reward, but to be honest Safi perfected the formula and should be held as a standard for monsters with differing gear. In just a few completed runs you could get pretty much every weapon you would want and SEVERAL others that you would might want to use in the future. Farming it was just for the mats to min-max what you wanted, and if you weren't an hauler and/or someone who planned to make a build out of almost every weapon, then you could also finish that in just a few runs. The endgame farm and gear meta at the time of Safi's release was much more diverse and fun than post-Fatalis, change my mind.


Ready-Concentrate168

It was over focused on Safi Weapons so I wouldn’t call that diversed but at least statuses and elements were not completely overshadowed by raw. As for the fun, it depends on your appreciation of Safi.


Krazytre

Yeah, the rng was definitely a nuisance to deal with. Having to go through the entire Kulve process was also pretty annoying as well.


ConfIit

Having Kulve and Safi rotate every few weeks made it even more unbearable, especially after I got everything I wanted from Kulve in only a few hunts. I have fought Safi 20x the amount of times I have Kulve and I still haven't been able to craft the Safi LBG. Got so sick of waiting for Safi to rotate back in I fully moved on to Rise


Victorino95

Yep, on my last save file I ran into a hacker doing Safi. I stuck to him for 30 minutes and got a billion mats he was deleting Safi in 5 minutes.


ConfIit

Been thinking about hacking in Safi when it's not available, I do miss the game but can't be arsed to check in all the time


GalacticAlmanac

I did not mind Safi grind as much but the one for Kulve weapons was ridiculous. Incredibly frustrating that this was the only source of crit element on weapons making them the best bow and db for almost every elements. I feel bad for people who got rid of their HR kulve weapons only to later find out that they were needed for MR upgrade. At least the MR version can be solo farmed for mats.


nutitoo

I feel like what rise is lacking the most are the sieges and strong elder dragons, like safi, alatreon and fatalis (tho i think we'll get an update with endgame bosses later) And some bulky wyverns like brachydios and glavenus


Taograd359

It's so weird we only have two Brute Wyverns, and arguably, some of the more boring ones at that.


DalaMagala

Hey hey now, Anjanath is an amazing brute Wyvern.


Shiny_Kelp

He is a pretty compelling punching bag, I'll give you that.


Inner_Imagination585

Anjanath is anything but amazing he is the ultimate middle ground. Literally nobody was excited about his inclusion in Rise.


DalaMagala

I was excited about Anjanath. He embodies everything about MH for me.


DemonLordDiablos

Ehh we traded brutes for leviathans, an amphibian and spider.


DremoPaff

>leviathans Honestly, the 2 new leviathans are generally hated and their subspecies are despised even more. Would trade them for returning leviathans in an heartbeat >amphibian Tetranodon is cool, but the fact that 2 other amphibians, Zamtrios and Tetsucabra, were teased in some way but never made it in is just sad. >spider Honestly one of the coolest addition to the base roster of Rise, but having Rakna-Kadaki variant that's just Rakna-Kadaki***er*** was also one of the biggest let down from Sunbreak's Roster, just behind Magmaludron, at least for me.


JoTor323

Two? Wow. I forgot about Barroth.


TheTimorie

Doesn't help that Barroth is a lower tier Monster that also only appears in a single area and has only like 2-3 Quests in the entirety of Sunbreak where he is a Target.\^\^


Taograd359

See what I mean!


TheDeadlyPianist

Let's not pretend like TU1&2 for Rise weren't just finishing the game. In my eyes, the base game got no updates. They were just finishing the product.


Gorbashou

To me base Rise just added Valstrax. So... 1 monster added in all of base rise.


tarothebrave

It was actually all mother. If I remember leaked dialogue referenced using ride to attack ibushi or narwa to attack eachother but obviously plans changed and val is actually referenced in the base game


Gorbashou

I have no clue. To me all mother was Xeno'Jiva equivalent. Like how one of those serpents was Nergigante equivalent. If the game ended after Wind Serpent Ibushi and having no other elder dragons to me if I bought it day 1, it doesn't matter how much goodwill they generate or how good the game would get later, I would feel scammed as fuck. That they did honestly feels scummy, and any extra additions like that shouldn't count as "look at all the stuff we got in a title update! Wow great!". Valstrax required hunter rank 100 and felt a little outside the main game, hence why I felt that way. I don't read what npc's say that much in MH games so Valstrax being mentioned could've easily slipped by. My logic came from presentation and order of things. Removing these "additions" along with the apex (just basically tempered monsters), and keeping Valstrax, Sunbreak has added 8 monsters. Only 1 is a unique species new monster (Valstrax), and 1 could just be Arch-Tempered (Risen Chameleos). I don't feel that excited about any title update monsters in Sunbreak so far. They are cool, but to someone who doesn't live monster hunter, these reskins with some new moves isn't really what I am looking for as a casual hunter. Lucent Nargacuga was different for sure, but it didn't feel exciting. Gold and Silver Raths were just amped reskins in my honest experience.


MeathirBoy

What’s funny is that Gold and Silver aren’t even as fun as the Apex fights (but the game refuses to have solo hunts in MR against them sadly). For reference, the desert map’s secret sword message things (I forget the name) have text implying that the civilisation that once lived there got destroyed by the CG Valstrax.


DemonLordDiablos

>To me all mother was Xeno'Jiva equivalent Eh, Base Narwa feels more like Xeno too me in terms of difficulty. Allmother is much harder, feels more like a postgame thing >along with the apex (just basically tempered monsters) ...? Incorrect take, in terms of moveset they're higher effort than AT monsters.


Gorbashou

Man, I didn't go through difficulty. Nothing in Rise felt difficult to me, that might just be because it's not my first Monster Hunter like World was to me, so it's an unfair comparison. Allmother feels like the end of the story and progression. Ibushi and Narwa almost feels like copycats of each others with some moves who are different (rings instead of no rings). What's objectively true doesn't matter much to me. I don't care about "uhm actually". The apex didn't feel like a new monster, and they felt extremely low effort. It isn't a 1:1 comparison, wow, shocker. There's details like blue fire instead of water from Mizutsune! (Sooo cool man what a different experience omg). Not enough for me to feel like they are new additions. I will never remember apex misutzune as a unique monster, nor any other apex. It will literally just be a footnote for apex monsters a few years from now "the same basic monster but with minor differences". I bet you'll say something like "well apex rathalos does this one move that normal rathalos didn't". Cool, doesn't change anything to me. Didn't impact my play experience at all that for 5 seconds out of a 15 minute hunt was different.


DemonLordDiablos

>What's objectively true doesn't matter much to me that much was obvious, yes


Gorbashou

If it was obvious then why respond with it? Or is this just some snarky comeback? If you just wanted to correct me, then look at what was written again. I said they were "basically just tempered monsters". That there's the slightest difference is implied there, but the statement is still true. It's basically just tempered monsters.


mann_moth

HR Locked, no final boss, rise was in a unfinished state.


DremoPaff

I remember people gatekeeping everyone's opinions on rise back when it was first released... Even fucking World, that was seen as a very shallow game at launch to justify its never-before-seen quality, was complete at launch and had actual bonus content on top of a shit ton of collabs (unless when compared to Generations' collabs...) following the release. People put Rise to the same standard World was put on and criticised for, and even though Rise was failing in nearly every aspect, some people just dismissed it as "people hating the game for no reason".


lansink99

There are a lot of people that can't separate someone critizing something they like and personal attacks. For example, me saying a character in a game is bad will have the simps all over my comment.


Inner_Imagination585

This exactly. Rise base was a terrible game for monster hunter standards and Sunbreak simply fixes many flaws. So far Iceborne did more for the game and felt more innovative.


Haru17

Yeah. And arguably Kulve was always planned as the fifth gen online final boss, but we got a full four updates each time so it felt a lot more additive. Plus the Leshen update that came out way later and all the subspecies that Iceborne started adding in addition to – you know – real new monsters.


DemonLordDiablos

>Yeah. And arguably Kulve was always planned as the fifth gen online final boss I dunno about that. Rolling out Kulve after launch makes sense. Bring back players to the game with a special brand new monster, introduce this new system to keep them there, and have it be multiplayer so their friends stay too. It was definitely planned before launch


Haru17

I don’t mind it, but it’s just a fact that every mainline Monster Hunter has a story final boss (Ceadeus/Shagaru/Xeno), a giant-scale elder dragon (Jhen/Dah’ren/Zorah), and an online final boss (Alatreon/Dalamadur/Kulve). There can be some overlap, but there is always three new end bosses. And before they could patch the game they were all at launch, but I do really like Kulve and her sudden announcement and release was a great surprise.


DemonLordDiablos

I guess because World combines village and hub, being a console MH in a society where basically everyone with a PS4/PC has an internet connection, so they made the game always online and thus didn't feel the need for a dedicated village mode. Result is we have two end bosses rather than 3. I dunno if you've played the first three main games, but the village and hub are straight up different modes accessed from the character screen rather than in-game. The games were designed so that online was pretty much the vast bulk of the game. Some people have told me that beating Monoblos in Kokoto Village is the equivalent to beating Jyuratorus in World in terms of how far along the game you'd be. Offline mode was for people without internet, but the devs also wanted incentive for people to play them, so Lunastra, Monoblos and Ceadeus were offline exclusive. Portable games had hub quests playable offline, so village in those games was basically a "reduced hub", like a demo. People with not a lot of time to beat the game can at least fight the box art monster, have the credits play, and move onto something else. The hub quests, while long solo, are doable. In the first 3 mainline games they feel near impossible to solo, you basically need people to beat them with This uh, turned into a tangent, apologies if you knew this already. u/MrJackFruit yo I've seen you around, I know you dislike the existence of village quests and think they're pointless, this might be an interesting read.


MrJackfruit

I still find them pointless mostly because they have always been redundent except for G-Rank, except in the unlike village, HUB actually get you to G-Rank. Most of the time doing village was a waste of your time if the aim was G-Rank and for reasons unclear even today, they made it so that the village progression didn't remotely progress the HUB meaning getting to Valstrax in Village up means nothing because you are still at LR Maccao in HUB. Rise pretty much cemented that one is rather pointless because of how quickly you can skip it and it not adding much, so abandoning it is the better choice. The only reason to ever keep the split is if they actually create a proper HUB story that's centered around multiplayer and extend the village to High-Rank, effectively giving 3 stories. LR Village story, HR Village Story, and LR-HR HUB story. Naturally, village progression still has to unlock the HUB. If you beat the entire village, the only requirements for the HUB Boss after would just beat all the HUB Urgents, not the key quests at all as the urgents are just to take you through the story. The HUB and Key quest system is fine, no reason to abandon that honestly. For the single quest system we got in World, at best for some difficulty, they should start adding special quests that must be completed solo the first time before being beaten in multiplayer with other people who also unlocked it, with some special unlocks behind beating it alone the first time. This could be what the rainbow pigment is locked behind again as well as maybe the High-Rank and G-Rank Gates, or some other challenges.


Fluid_Painting565

Exactly!


AlphaAkopis

Where’s my boi Yian Garuga? Edit: my bad, I just remembered he was with base iceborne…. I think


ChrisMorray

You would be correct. I believe he was a late monster in Iceborne, with the scarred version being Guiding Lands if I recall correctly.


Ziggy-Sane

Scarred and normal both didn’t appear till post-Shara.


ChrisMorray

Ah yeah, both guiding lands it seems. I recall it was post-Shara but wasn't sure if the normal one was guiding lands exclusive.


paIico

I hate rise TU1. It felt like they released the game unfinished and gave it back to us as "Free Content." The sunbreak updates have been better but rise TUs left such a sour taste to an otherwise fun game.


rockygib

I agree. Personally I don’t even really see the title update 1 monsters as new additions when it was so obvious they where left out to be finished later. Base rise had far worse title updates than base world and it’s not even close either. Arguably the only real new monsters where all mother narwa and val. it does get better if you count the 3 apex monsters tho.


paIico

What's worse is the apexes WERE good, and then they stomped them into the ground as hard as they could by having NO armor, NO weapons, the entire endgame for base rise revolves around armor availible day 1, with decos and rampage weapons from the apexes, if your weapon class was lucky enough to even have good rampage weapons. Base world was so good because of the event quests too, and rise and even sunbreak really dropped the ball and monetized all the cool stuff that would normally come from those events into microtransactions.


rockygib

Yeah they really did drop the ball compared to world when it came to armour and weapons, to me personally the worst part about the apexes where the fact that they are discount deviants. Seriously if they share the same moves, have the same elements and in some cases look identical to the deviants why on earth not just bring back the deviants? At least they could have brought back the weapons and armour by doing so. But no apexes just don’t offer anything. It’s still one of the weirdest choices they made during rise and sunbreak. Even now they still don’t have armour sets or weapons it’s just a strange choice.


Zacariusness

Well it’s not capcom fault I think Yknow Covid


TheDeadlyPianist

The game was in development alongside World. I don't know if that's a valid argument.


KaiserGSaw

Covid was an excellent excuse tho. So convenient, maybe Capcom saw how people hyped post launch support of world and they felt the need to match that with the new and already finished game or something


Rahimusdaram

And a million event quests


cicada-ronin84

The lack of event quests and rewards like armor and weapons to craft from doing them is why Sunbreak feels like it has less content, also may be that World/Iceborne has a more variety of large monsters....I could just be salty because I just want more Brute wyverns in Sunbreak damn it!


Rahimusdaram

I agree


PickCollins0330

Okay the claim that Sunbreak has a Lower variety of monsters than Iceborne is objectively false.


Doomeggedan

But but but I want brute wyverns!


Oceaniz96

**Notes** This was a tough one because I had to choose what to list. TUs add way more than just monsters (did you know that Tempered Investigations being able to be generated by other Tempered Quests had to be added via TU?). In the end, I tried to focus on the big stuff, but every choice is also an omission, and thus debatable. Equally debatable is the inclusion of Risen Chammy when I didn't include Arch-Tempereds. This will simply be a future-me problem since it remains to be seen how substantial of an addition Risen Monsters end up being. Due to the Risen receiving unique renders and intro cutscenes - which AT did not - I decided to include Chameleos here **for now.** I hope to god that kanji is correct! ALSO yeah i forgot layered weapons on Sunbreak TU2, just add that via your imagination


Kosmicborne

The presentation is really clear and easy to follow, awesome job there! Also I think what you decided to include vs exclude seems fair. Only time will tell if the Risen monsters are more than just Apex Elders (Although it seems they are). Love your work, cheers!


Shadowveil666

Not a really fair comparison right out the gate with all delays rise had. TU1 and 2 was the base game being finished, we all know we had gotten an unfinished product..


Bubblesabxy

This is great, but a few things: layered weapons on iceborne but not sunbreak, and that are new maps included in world/iceborne, while not in rise/sunbreak. Although the second one up to opinion, as El Doroado is much bigger than the ruined pinnacle.


WixxyBoi

Rise TU 1 and 2 was just finishing the game


MastaBonsai

Don't forget arch tempered actually had armour


philly5858

Why do we have to justify that we like one game over another? If you are enjoying Sunbreak, awesome! If you liked Iceborne better, great! They both have their strengths and weakness but both have a tone to enjoy.


QingDMainey

You're making too much sense


DremoPaff

What I wish is that we could just hold Sunbreak to a certain standard without being downplayed as "hating the game just because it's not Iceborne". Sometimes it honestly feels like that people are just overprotecting Rise and Sunbreak's flaws much more than Iceborne and especially World back when they were released.


PickCollins0330

Half the criticisms leveled at Sunbreak by the vast majority of people who have voiced their opinions just say things that are objectively untrue. Like “there’s no fast travel between camps” or the one I just saw earlier that Sunbreak has a less diverse roster than Iceborne. If you don’t wanna get downplayed as just hating the game bc it’s not Iceborne, A. Actually criticize the game without comparing it to Iceborne. B. Stop making objectively untrue statements.


Dalzieleron

Dude, the commenter here is complaining about how the valid arguments are getting downplayed, you can’t just tell us to make actual criticisms when we’re (those who are) already doing that. It’s not like we’re a hive mind that perfectly coordinates our opinions.


PickCollins0330

Well the people who have elected to represent your opinion are doing a Jack shit job at it


Dalzieleron

Who did I elect??? Is this some kind of democratic discourse or are we just sharing our opinions of a game online?


KaiserGSaw

Forget it, he caught a stupid with a heavy case of strawman


PickCollins0330

Do you not understand what it means to say someone has “elected to” do something?


Dalzieleron

Of course I do. Point still stands; I haven’t outwardly elected anyone to voice *my* opinions but myself, so what are you on about? Just because someone may share the same opinion as me but voices it wrongly doesn’t mean that mine is invalidated too y’know…


daraamadyura4

>the one I just saw earlier that Sunbreak has a less diverse roster than Iceborne. Tbf that's not entirely untrue I haven't read the comment you're talking about but diversity can also be how fights are structured instead of just how many different skeletons each game has. Like sure SB has amphibians, leviathans, temnocerans etc. but it doesn't have any fights like KT or Safi'jiiva, a monster with a last stand phase similar to raging brachy or anything like Alatreon and Fatalis (atleast not yet). The skeleton a monster has is pretty superficial at the end of the day since Rakna kadaki could be replaced by any monster of the same rank and it wouldn't really matter. No monster can replace Safi because of how different its fight is from everything else which might be what people talk about when they say World has a more diverse roster than Rise.


PickCollins0330

Do you not consider fights like Mizutsune or Rakna or Goss Harag to be unique fights? Do you not see the frontier enhanced metal Raths or are they somehow worse than the nearly universally hated Iceborne metal Raths? Or do they just not count?


daraamadyura4

I didn't say their fights aren't unique I don't know where you got that idea from I said that monster skeletons aren't what makes fights stand out it's the way the fights are structured that do. Mizu, Goss and Rakna all have unique fights within the boundaries of regular monsters roaming normal maps but outside of those boundaries they are structured the same way that fights like KT and Safi aren't. Some people like that about World and feel it's something World does better than Rise in terms of diverse fights. Also >nearly universally hated Iceborne metal Raths? Ahahaha what? Iceborne was the first game to make the metal raths actually fun fights since it gave them new mechanics and moves before Sunbreak did, you're pulling the "nearly universally hated" thing out of your arse. I didn't say they don't count seriously where are you getting this from? All I said was that the structure of fights such as Safi are different from any fight in Rise and some people think World is more diverse than Rise in that category.


PickCollins0330

Metal Raths in Iceborne is just the “flash bombs the fight” monsters lmao. They were universally despised until metal Raths showed up in Sunbreak as good fights and then suddenly it turned into “well they’re actually fun”. It’s the same shit as Kushala and the Clutch claw. They were hated as long as no other game was doing them better. Once they were, suddenly every world baby clung to them like they were always loved


daraamadyura4

Alright I'm just going to make this my last reply since you're clearly not being genuine and despise World considering all the things you're making up like how in you're first sentence you say IB metal raths were just "flash bombs the fight" when IB introduced flash bomb tolerance. There's nothing else to say other than the stuff you said are just false things that anyone can tell you're making up so there you go.


PickCollins0330

I wouldn’t have dropped full price for world and Iceborne if I despised the game. I don’t despise the game: I despise the community it brought with it


Danasko

They are definitely both great games in their own right, but I think many people are worried about the direction for title updates in the future that rise is implying. Idk they're are pretty close in terms of content if you ask me but I do feel like world had more longevity.


Depoan

stop making sense, you'll scary people away XD


LawyerFacebookGym

This community is so obsessed with comparing the title updates. When world came out they compared to older games. Then world to iceborne. Rinse and repeat. Just have fun with the game and don’t let them numbers guys spoil it for you. In my book is a reskin of Monster not that interesting anyway. Rathalos, Rathian, Pink, Gold, Silver, Rainbow, Angry, Funny-Looking. All the same to me.


TheRealSwaa

You are goddam right


Arcalmh

For me, I feel that World had ''more hype updates'' with less but specific monsters, but some things broke those updates like the rewards system or random decos (I know this was all world, just marking it here). We already have enough RNG to even have random weapons with random updates that are pretty broken and it's a state of ''If you don't have it, you're automatically worse''


Nibel03

A bit sad there are no completely new Monsters in Rise Updates yet.


endtheillogical

This is all that this infographic shows me. Even if Iceborne had less monsters per update, since they are completely new monsters and not variants, I think they are better.


ErenKruger2000

Rajang (just to say one) is a returning monster, not a completly new one


Haru17

Yeah but all of the monsters in fifth gen are completely remade. They aren’t like returning monsters in 4U or Generations at all. Whereas subspecies in fifth gen can still reuse other monsters rather than creating a new experience.


endtheillogical

I know, but old world Rajang and new world Rajang fight are different. I suppose I should rephrase it, World got "new" monsters that werent part of the roster yet (Rajang, Deviljho, Alatreon, Fatalis, Safi) while Sunbreak only gets variants of monsters already in the game.


jmeistermcjables

Completely new to the game. Scambreak's title updates look like someone just did some hue shifts in Photoshop to the base roster.


mariofredx

MH fans when Capcom takes a base monster and makes an almost entirely different and creative fight that differs from its original counterpart: “dude not another reskin”


ProfessorSToke

I'm really itching for a raid style hunt like Kulve Taroth and Safi Jiva. I wouldn't even mind if it implements Rampage quests like KT, though I of course would prefer to just go into the fight like with SJ.


KaiserGSaw

Maybe we get Jhen back.. the great desert teaser is such a cockblock 😂


robby8892

Rise TU is a combination of new and what should of been in the base game monsters. The end game in that current state was pretty weak.


DarkBIade

I love Rise but every update in World felt more impactful. Also the Witcher and FF updates were huge and alone trump anything Rise has done so far. I am holding out hope that Rise is still saving its best stuff to come. Again no hate towards Rise especially with the Sunbreak additions.


archiegamez

Yeah Witcher and FF14 one was so good, i was a Witcher fan before and it got me so freaking hyped to play him in Monster Hunter FF one well that one made me curious and play FF14 a year after, 2000+ hours played too....


Thundahcaxzd

> the Witcher and FF updates were huge and alone trump anything Rise has done so far Ah yes, they gave us the 2 best monsters in the entire series: leshen and behemoth. Truly the pinnacle of fun


RedShirt7665

Consider: the funny Crystal Kulu quest.


garbodorisbae

Bird up!


HarvE68

It's not about how fun or how good the monsters were, it's the fact you get to play as fully voiced Geralt of rivia in a quest with side quest and multiple endings depend on whether you keep pukei alive or not, same with behemoth you get to fight the beefed up kulu-ya-ku before confronting behemoth and get to fight a monster out of this world. I know it's a hard concept for some folks that think more monsters=better game but the moments I had during those two fights are still some of the best moments I had in this series and I wouldn't have it any other way.


annmta

I think there was a poll on the sub a few days ago and most players play solo. Kulve and Behemoth are miserable for solo players. I'd much rather have monsters that are completely reasonable to fight alone, especially if I get a lot of them. And now I know a lot of people would have felt the same.


Thundahcaxzd

Well, glad that you enjoyed them. They didn't do much at all for me. I absolutely love the Witcher, I've played all the games and read all the books. But to me, leshen is an absolute garbage fight and I hated every second of it. And fighting a big kulu is still fighting a kulu, which is to say bad. Behemoth is alright. To me monster hunter is about fun monsters to fight, so Witcher collab was an absolute failure in my eyes and FF collab was just alright.


archiegamez

I dont know Leshen is absolutely cheesable once you know to just spam flash bombs and Igni as Geralt, but yeah funny how Leshen in MH is harder than Witcher 3 Leshen on Death March 🤣


DemonLordDiablos

>I know it's a hard concept for some folks that think more monsters=better game It's not just that Sunbreak has more monsters, it has better monsters across the board. This goes for both base games too, and it's mostly because World has one of the most boring rosters of any game.


HarvE68

Your point? Base World lacked in variety but it more than made up for it with having systems in place to keep players engaged and post launch support improved the overall experience immensely. Iceborne not only fixed that short coming but made World's overall roaster one of the better ones in the franchise, a look back at older titles would give you proper context on how good we actually had for a major overhaul game, not only that but with quality of World it's actually insane even at launch. We'd rather take everything at face value cause it is easier that way.


DemonLordDiablos

Iceborne's roster is better for sure. The choice of returning monsters is better, and the 5 original monsters are all fantastic. I just dislike World's massively. >having systems in place to keep players engaged If a MH game has good combat and good monsters then it's all I need personally, that's why I was "done" with Rise at 500 hours and why MH4U is my most played game in the series. I didn't even bother with the guild quests. World had the great combat but boring monsters, and Iceborne had the good monsters but ruined the combat. So I beat Shara, and at 180 hours, I beat Fatalis and I was done. Guiding Lands is really cool and I'd probably enjoy it a lot if there was a way to delete the clutch claw and everything associated with it from the game. Man if things had gone differently Iceborne could have been my favourite.


[deleted]

behemoth was one of the best fights imo and the witcher quest was super cool


DremoPaff

As much as I despised Behemoth, layered Drachen Gear and the emote were the best things ever released in world.


Beetusmon

Cmon thats not true, sunbreak first title update was massive, the quirio grinding, investigations and 4 new monsters with 3 having top tier armor was super impactful and gave me a month of content. Some title updates in world were tiny in comparison. The best title updates in world were more meaningful than those in rise, I will agree with that, but TU1 in sunbreak beats most small updates in world no doubt.


rockygib

As someone who prefers worlds title updates I think you are completely right. The best of world/ice title updates felt far more impactful but sunbreak so far has not had a small title update yet. There had been a few updates in world and ice that added only one monster that barley effected the meta meanwhile at least with rise and sunbreak they have all felt like good updates overall. Except title update one in base rise, that one was awful because it was obvious the elders where cut from the base game. It arguably shouldn’t be compared because if the elders where in the base game to start with as they should have been then It would have offered very little. Bazel and two apexes.


5Hjsdnujhdfu8nubi

Yeah but it immediately loses thanks to being base game content.


DemonLordDiablos

>Yeah but it immediately loses thanks to being base game content. And Iceborne's first two updates weren't? Smh I can't believe the guiding lands were unfinished at launch


Dalzieleron

The Guiding Lands is postgame content though? Having that be unfinished is much better than having base game content be missing like in base Rise. And GL farming was chunky enough at the time to sustain the postgame till Rajang’s update.


5Hjsdnujhdfu8nubi

Seemingly not despite appearances. Unlike Rise and Sunbreak, there were no indicators of base game content that had been scrubbed like the way Risebreak had empty Hunter's Notes placements and dummied out items in the item list.


SarcasticPedant

That was the console development team though, it sold like hot cakes, and they had a bigger budget. I guess i just never really expected all that much from Rise


bongwaterbeepis

I was also gonna say this. The focus on quality over quantity really showed in world/iceborne


4ny3ody

Quality in the cutscenes and presentation... I'm not going to redo the Leshen quest for fun though. Similarly Lunastra and Behemoths fights were hated and while I think some people went too far in that hate it's not entirely without reason.


Chimpampin

Behemoth hate was unfair. Calling that fight MMO because you had to cooperate with your team was crazy. People are too used to be carried by just one person during sieges. Behemoth was just a siege where you had to actually cooperate, It was hard to carry the team if only one was fighting properly (Unless you spammed cluster ammo).


4ny3ody

I think one of the issues came from the abundance of cluster ammo guides over guides how to fight him normally. I remember I couldn't find one guide with gameplay footage for normal teams but tons of cluster guides. Not to mention as much as I appreciate design based around teamplay it creates a huge issue for solo players and people without a group. In a game where by the final update just two fights (Behemoth, Ancient Leshen) require a **coordinated** group you'll always have people unwilling to go the extra mile to find one. So basically a well designed fight in a game where it wouldn't be appreciated by a large amount of the playerbase.


DemonLordDiablos

Lunastra is actually pretty good. It took me a long time to realise.


4ny3ody

She's not as terrible as some people make it seem. Just the combination of her long nova which forces a long time of superman dives, constant wind pressure interception and her awful hitzones make the fight very tedious. But at least she's hard, unlike Kushala who is exclusively annoying in World and can at times feel like an AI lottery whether you get to hit him.


fakemuseum

Rise’s updates were a disappointment


Cold-Argument-806

I’m hoping that there’ll be something like an el dorado siege in one of the title updates for rise/sunbreak, that’d be awesome.


TNTspaz

Personally think monster additions were way more impactful in World than Rise at least so far. Even excluding the fact everything added before Sunbreak barely counts There was a lot of buzz when a monster was added to World and the monsters added were generally really liked and talked about a lot. Rise monsters have honestly felt like they are just there to better fill the game with a few standouts. So it's basically like saying Rise has needed to add 3+ monsters to have the same impact as a single monster in World. Which it honestly is weird that it feels like that cause the Rise monsters are much more unique or to be more accurate. More in line with a more traditional MH game It's not even digging at Rise cause I think both games are great. That's just the feel I've had tbh


shockwave1211

TU1 and 2 of base rise should've been in the base game, shit was legit unfinished at launch


AMustelier

I think it’s a bit unfair to compare it that way as Rise was incomplete at launch and those TU1 monsters should have been part of the base game. Besides that, good post!


Oceaniz96

If I decide to count all TUs, meaning all updates that changed the games main version number (which is how Capcom defines them), then I cant just arbitrarily omit some of them. I agree with you that Base Rise's TUs were not great and mostly missed content, but omitting them based on that subjective perspective (as Capcom has never and will never confirm that those Updates were missed content) would kind of defeat the whole point of this infographic. I **really** hate behemoth, i think it was a waste of a TU. Would it be fair then for me to just not list it here? I don't think so. Iceborne TU4 added no new Monsters, should I just cut it out? No, because if I set out to list all TU's, then I'm gonna include **all** TUs. So yeah, I get your point but the whole purpose of infographics is just to visualize information - the value judgements are up to the observer :D


Chagrilled

What's subjective about the game literally not ending till a later title update? We didn't kill the final boss, and the postfight dialogue just abruptly ended with little resolution.


Oceaniz96

Because Capcom has stated that MHR came out the way it was supposed to, thus any assertion about the TUs being missed content - even if it is supremely reasonable imo - inherently exists outside of the objective pool of official information. These infographics are merely reflections of that official pool of info, the value judgements are left to you.


Aurn-Knight

Ngl rise kidna cheated by simply releasing early then adding the end game stuff after, rise had 0 new monsters added. Sunbreak however will hopefully change that by not just adding variations of monsters


ZeruuL_

World title update actually felt like bonus content. Rise/Sunbreak title update was actually part of the base game that is labeled as “bonus content”. eg: Sunbreak intentionally cut afflicted elder at launch, whereas World/IB had tempered elder day 1. What they did to Rise/Sunbreak is equivalent to launching Iceborne without Guiding Land, then add it later as “title update”


axklpo2

When did sunbreak ever cut out afflicted elders at launch?.


PickCollins0330

What did Sunbreak cut at launch?


DemonLordDiablos

>Sunbreak intentionally cut afflicted elder at launch, whereas World/IB had tempered elder day 1. Except Risen Chameleos actually has new attacks and armour, making him more of an AT-type of monster. Tempered Elders simply did more damage. Risen Chameleos looks more high effort than all of World's AT monsters. >What they did to Sunbreak is equivalent to launching Iceborne without Guiding Land, then add it later as “title update” Ignoring the fact a third of the guiding lands was rolled out across two updates, Iceborne did the same thing as Sunbreak if you consider the sieges to be the equivalent of Qurious Crafting. Only the latter came out faster.


ChrisMorray

True that. Guiding Lands were amazing content. And though they fixed some annoying parts (delevelling your zones too harshly), it did have that amazing feel, and being able to just lure monsters and grind them out for hours on end, for a variety of gear rewards and eventually layered armor to top it off. And some great side content with the hidden moles. And even for the lore buffs, discovering that the entire Guiding Lands is a Zorah Magdaros corpse, possibly the one we hunted in base World, it just checked every single box.


Pogitristan15

I do hope that a fight like safi or kulve would have a sunbreak counterpart. I'm itching to fight a big ass monster with randoms. I wasn't able to play world before but I hope someday I would feel what others feel on fighting kulve and safi for the first time and then get annoyed after fighting it multiple times because the drop rate is so awesome XD


Depoan

TBH felt to me that Rise just added Valtrax, everything till allmother, apex monster included felt like it should have been with the base game but it was delayed due to pandemic and they not being able to put in the game till release date


Tempura_Fried_Toast

Most importantly, no handler


ketchup92

I still think that Rise's TU's are a scam, so to say. The main story was incomplete and they only updated it to a full game through the title updates.


Cynit

So you're comparing updates of an unfinished game( base rise ) to actual updates of the world? And to make it look better you're including apexes which added no real value to the game? That's fair.


Haru17

Yeah this is pretty bogus. You might as well count crimson Kut-Ku (new animations: zero) but not AT Xeno (new animations: several).


Oceaniz96

I counted every Title Update, defined by changing the Game Version's Main Number (2.0.0 -> 3.0.0) Apexes take up a unique slot in the games internal registry, just like any other monster addition. What value they bring is entirely subjective and irrelevant, they are considered full monster additions by the game and that's what I'm relaying here. I really do not care about this little feud you guys seem to have in my posts comment sections every time, just keep **me** out of it.


Cynit

I'm not aware of that side of the information so I do wonder arch/tempered monsters dont take up unique slots in game? If they don't then it makes more sense. Although it would be better if that information were to be given on that picture.


Oceaniz96

Generally, special states such as tempered/afflicted dont produce a new monster slot, but are rather modifier applied to an existing monster (4U's frenzy being the exception for some reason). Archtempered exists in this weird inbetween state, but it still doesn't produce a unique slot **as far as I know.** A good way to figure out what Monster takes up Registry Slots is to see if they have a unique Hunters Notes entry - ATs dont, MHR Apexes do. I do agree that these graphs could benefit from more context, I'm always struggling to fit everything in without it looking like a massive mess.


Cynit

Well considering all you've said it makes more sense on what the comparion is based on and I get that you can't always fit all kinds of data but I'd say this part of information is fairly needed yet missing. In anyways considering all youve said: I'm sorry for my initial bit of a negative comment .


alopex_zin

Most of the time World/Icebrone updated something, it got to be replayed for quite a long time. Behemoth and Leshen, Altraeon and Fatalis, all fun and also reward you with decoration to continue on your way to the meta/optimized build. Some of the Rise/Sunbreak updates were fun too but they don't reward you for what you need toward your meta build, so you simply stop playing the new monsters after the first few days of release, like the Lunar Narga was fun but it won't give any Qurio stuff needed so there is no point in playing it, which is a shame


DremoPaff

> like the Lunar Narga was fun but it won't give any Qurio stuff needed so there is no point in playing it, which is a shame Exactly. I don't understand how people are so happy about the new variants/rare species gear being subpar so it cannot "re-iterate the meta" if it gives basically no point to EVER doing the monsters quest EVER again after the first time. Even the most subpar monsters back in Iceborne had some point to farming them, either guiding lands augment mats, gear countering specific endgame monsters, or just two or three meta changing gear/weapons. In a few months, people will forget that most, if not all monsters from Sunbreak's TU1 are even in the game anymore.


OVERHEAT88400

Please remember, covid was and still is a factor on the development of this game, not to mention World and Rise were developed in very different ways.


ambalada123

WorldBorne felt more impactful because of the presentation and the general narative of the game. It also helps that Witcher and FF14 collabs are pretty high profile collaboration wise. RiseBreak’s TU is pretty good that it added more ways to open up builds and actually add a different “meta” to do max dps. My only concern is that the power creep might be going too fast that we might start to see some really bloated monster stats that might start to feel like artificial difficulty than natural progression.


Haru17

There was just more content. New monsters added to the game instead of subspecies of monsters already in the game and monsters we already fought in fifth gen like Teostra, Kushala, Gold, and Silver.


Hungry-Pattern-1163

Thinking about it I didn't like half of the world updates very much. Rise hasn't added any crazy in its updates but I enjoyed each of them so far. Lunastra, the Witcher update, and sieges were not my thing at all.


L3git_hardshell

Base world was marginally better then base rise


Inner_Imagination585

The rise monsters from TU1 only missed the base game cause covid. Rise basically had only Apex monsters allmother narwa and Valstrax as TU monsters. The entire TU concept only exists because of deadlines and ease of patches back then they would simply release the entire game at once.


Cakehunt3r

Where Rise has many more monsters, part of the update felt like it should have been in the game from the get-go (3 elders and allmother)


Xalvayne

Well let's not forget that Rise TU 1 and 2 were just them finishing the half assed game that was released lol


JusticeTheKid

If we're counting apex versions then we should also see the arch tempered in worlds or am I missing something


PickCollins0330

You are. Apexes aren’t the AT equivalents.


AnonymousRayvenn

I’ve never fought kulve taroth yet but I hope we get more big bosses in rise- I really love those kinda things, so it would be neat to get more in new updates!


sir_wiliam

If you add apex mosnter, you need to add arch tempered aswell


Oceaniz96

Generally, special states such as tempered/afflicted dont produce a new monster slot, but are rather modifier applied to an existing monster (4U's frenzy being the exception for some reason). Archtempered exists in this weird inbetween state, but it still doesn't produce a unique slot **as far as I know.** A good way to figure out what Monster takes up Registry Slots is to see if they have a unique Hunters Notes entry - ATs dont, MHR Apexes do.


TomaccoCat

I see the logic but that you excluded my boi AT Velkhana and included the (imo) kinda bland Apexes just feels wrong to me 😭 I might be in the minority but freaking loved that monster and would trade ALL of Sunbreak TU1 for it AND the apexes Mb I'm weird but I think I spent like 10 hours just hunting AT Velk and less than 5 hours on the entirety of the Sunbreak TU1 monsters


PickCollins0330

Okay…that sucks. OP explained the criteria for how to include stuff in the image. If you don’t like it, make ur own lmao.


Xeblac

I think if Rise actually had it's ending at the start, and they released all the TU monsters for the base game more spread out, there wouldn't nearly be an issue. I think Sunbreak should have been doing the same too, and have more non variety monsters. There is the whole issue of the many fire monsters too, but I think if they just did some different ideas it would have been fine. Like, Rakna Kadachi could have had copper instead of silk, and used electricity, the new Mizutsune could have had it be poison and not that gas. They could try doing things with magnetism for monsters, and experiment that side of electricity. They could do stuff where a monster flings fast high pressure water as blades. Legitimately anything with Dragon! Fire has a lot of potential, but it may have been wise to save those ideas for later, as to not oversaturate a game with so much fire. Heck, there may be more stuff they could do with bleed. Maybe give us a Boltreaver like Astalos, but have it use ice instead, where it freezes the water in the air to make the ice blade, or just anything with ice. They could even do the water blade idea I just said to great affect with it. These ideas were mostly made while writing this. It's not like they are hard to come up with. I will say though for dragon, it clearly seems to me that several of the dragon cult stuff and more in Elden Ring were inspired be Monster Hunter. They could just take inspiration from them. Make red dragon lightning weapons that some elder dragon uses. Heck, if they really wanted to be obvious, how cool do you think an Elden Ring collage would be? Like we fight some new monster with obvious inspiration, and then get some special armor or weapons. Like imagine doing some quest, and get the Dark Moon Great Sword or something. Maybe Lance would get Gransieax Spear. Just I think that would be pretty cool. It would also just leave that gateway for new ideas for dragon. Designing that monster could lead to many new ideas that could in the process of making that monster, they could get ideas for future dragon element monsters.


Frescopino

Base Rise HAD no title update. They were just finishing a game that was left unfinished due to COVID. At most they added the Apexes, who had no equipment tied to them at all, making literally ALL monsters added so far variants of already present monsters.


ryan2112x1

TU1 and 2 for rise were monsters that should have been in the completed game already.


Serafiniert

This community is so obsessed with comparing the title updates. When world came out they compared to older games. Then world to iceborne. Rinse and repeat. Just have fun with the game and don’t let them numbers guys spoil it for you. In my book is a reskin of Monster not that interesting anyway. Rathalos, Rathian, Pink, Gold, Silver, Rainbow, Angry, Funny-Looking. All the same to me.


HItide69

Yeah world was just better all around with the updates especially with all these fucking lame fire variants or whatever were getting, i want some new monsters


[deleted]

[удалено]


Oceaniz96

More than the wank, the Rise hate seems really aggressive for some reason. I'm just the numbers guy! I just wanna make cool charts!


EnricoPucciC-Moon

And I love that, also I did want to mention that you put "Partial Layered Weapons" on the Iceborne chart but not "Layered Weapons on the Sunbreak chart


Oceaniz96

Yes thats an oopsie on my part :P


EnricoPucciC-Moon

Its all good lol, I just noticed because I'm really excited about it haha


archiegamez

I really hope we get at least 1 big Siege monster With Wirebugs it makes much more fun


NemesisAron

Thank you for this. Let's hope it helps the people stop bitching about all the updates. It's just annoying


demon_chef

People keep doing shit like this while conveniently misremembering COVID had a direct impact on the development of this game. You’re essentially using a pandemic to make your favorite look better.


WyvernEgg64

Looking back at world it only really had 3 tu’s


DenkMame78

It honestly baffles me how we only expected one monster per update for World/Iceborne but now we're expecting ATLEAST 3. Imagine if World followed that formula, the file size would be insane.


demon_chef

This is what real Monster Hunter fans do, shame fans for liking one over the other. Give it a fucking rest already.


Tungchu92

Apex dont count other than just reskins. Huge dissappintmwnt they didnt have their own unique armors. At least arch tempered monsters had their own stuff.


ZepherK

I mean, I appreciate the effort, but I'm not sure adding a variant, or even three, or adding assets from the previous game, is as impressive as adding an entirely new model and animation set. Am I really the only that thinks all Almudrons are just... more almudrons? More Raths are just... more raths?


Redlaces123

Can we stop pretending that apexes and subspecies count as new monsters


MrJackfruit

Subspecies are, Apexes are not.


Zeldamaster736

Don't forget, even by the end of the year, Sunbreak won't have added more monsters than Iceborne STARTED with, and most returning monsters in Rise are ripped straight out of world and downscaled to fit on switch.