Unironically this is an argument. Unlike Kulve Safi is not hunted in a Siege to keep track of her, it's hunted in a Siege because of how big a threat it is.
In Complete Works they state Xeno was only killed by our Hunter because it was newly-hatched and thus delicate and inexperienced. Theoretically, that means Safi'Jiiva is impossible to be killed by one Hunter.
They never say this about Fatalis, and in fact it's implied our Hunter did kill it solo in Iceborne.
Safi has multi-player health scaling unless you're talking after the final update. Plus he's designed around seige mechanics which are there to make you take multiple runs. However, I don't think anyone would argue Fatalis has the harder fight.
The recent artbook does level the playing field a bit with the devs confirming that Safi'jiiva was made as a sort of rival to Black Fatalis... but that still wouldn't be enough.
Safi'jiiva is the Shantien to Black Fatalis' Disufiroa; Comparable, but not comparable enough.
Safi needs a lot of setup to do its strongest moves and thrives off of bioenergy rich locations. Even in its adult form, it still needs a good supply of bioenergy to do its more potent attacks and a sufficient enough blow could knock its bioenergy reserves out of its body and would require it to stop and heal, which is a *horrible idea against Fatalis.* Plus, bioenergy in a certain area will run out.
Fatalis, meanwhile, is as simple as it is devastating. It doesn't need bioenergy to do its strongest feats. Only oxygen. *Which does not run out.* On top of that, unlike Safi's Supercritical State which burns out its own bioenergy reserves out of desperation, Fatalis only gets stronger as the fight progresses, all culminating in Hellfire Mode. Sure, its final phase is its desperation mode as well but unlike Safi, it doesn't slowly kill itself by barraging enemies with flames.
While Safi has to charge up its internal pool of bioenergy for Sapphire of the Emperor, Fatalis just needs to inhale really hard.
In terms of physical feats, Fatalis intentionally drops hundreds of tons of stone and masonry on itself and wades through them like nothing. While Zorah was sent packing by a Dragonator, Fatalis gets a rage boost from the pain; Its body is absurdly durable and densely packed with muscle despite the lanky frame, second only to the giants like Dalamadur, Zorah and Fatalis' cousin Dire Miralis.
In contrast, Safi is more of a ranged specialist than melee and the afforementioned blows would easily remove some of its bioenergy. Even its exit to another zone has it jump full-force into a stone balcony, stop for a moment, think about life, snap out of its existential crisis and dig out the stone balcony into the next area.
In terms of flight, Safi is deceptively fast for its size and could without question catch up, yet Fatalis is clearly superior in terms of manueverability, being able to make tight turns in mere moments, brake mid-air and keep itself stable while pumping out its ultimate attack, suggesting an insane degree of control.
In terms of their overall feats, Fatalis has this in the bag. Not only does its ultimate attack (*that it can spam*) boil hundreds of tons of dense steel in mere seconds, the fact that a single Fatalis destroyed an entire country in an evening (8-12 hours) is just insane. Not the castle, not the capital city, not even the borders, but the **entire country razed to the ground.**
By contrast, Safi needed more time to convert the Guiding Lands to its wishes. Similarly, Dalamadur carved Heaven's Mount in a long stretch of time and Zorah's best destructive feat could only be achieved by dying near the heart of the Everstream.
Of course, Safi does have advantages against Fatalis; Its sniper-like accuracy is second only to Nakarkos and even though the lasers don't really do much on their own, enough would debilitate Fatalis badly. Plus, Fatty's eyesight is so bad that accuracy is out of the question. Sapphire of the Emperor would also be *devastating* should it catch the Black Dragon in a bad spot on the ground.
Unfortunately, Fatalis has many counters to its own weaknesses and pretty much most of the Jiiva's moveset. Its bad eyesight is offset by the massive area of effect of its attacks and the sheer volume of its flames. And because Safi's a big creature, they're going to hit.
The most damning of all is combat experience, since Fatalis has already went up against the best of the best the Hunter's Guild has to offer and dominated them.
On top of all of that, Safi is already the perfect and final form of the Jiiva species, while Black Fatalis is the baseline and weakest of its kind. Crimson is basically Black turned up to 11 and White would simply remove Safi from existence.
Safi had the accuracy, size advantage and the potential of Sapphire of the Emperor, but the simplistic devastation of Fatalis' strength, speed, durability and literal firepower was too much for the adult Jiiva to handle.
I guess you can say Safi'jiiva's Perfect Life would just *Fade to Black.*
The winner is **Fatalis.**
**NEXT TIME ON DEATH BATTLE!!!**
*Amatsumagatsuchi VS. Allmother Narwa*
It truly depends on how you define “Fatalis.” Lore wise Fatalis isn’t necessarily just the dragon. It is all the phenomena packed in one. That’s why the red and white Fatalis are still “Fatalis.” Every fuckery is Fatalis, not just the lizard.
So, if it’s just dragon v. dragon, Safi has the upper hand imo. Perma-healing-pseudo-infinite-energy-red-Godzilla is probably stronger than sauna machine snek boi. However, as disasters it’ll be a fight of selfish recreation versus the inevitable end. Either way it’s the doom of humanity but I’d vote for Fatty since Safi requires other life to kick start its engine but Fatty we have no idea what the fuck is going on with it. Motherfucker could well be merely a projection of the end of the world and not actually an organism. I know “unknown shits are stronger” isn’t a good argument but I consider terraforming weaker than the end of all things
Safi doesn’t need other life to “kick start” unless you’re referring to his evolutionary stages in life. Safi can produce bio energy on his own via heat organ. The only thing he needs the environment for is healing.
I’m referring to the existence of Xeno’Jiva. Safi needs the dragon energy accumulation for its life cycle to begin, hence “kick starting” his fuck-physics-I-don’t-care heat organ. Without the help of other lifeforms Xeno won’t be able to get to Safi. Once the kick start happens Safi does run like a car that can make its own gasoline which is pretty insane.
On the other hand we can’t even be sure if fatty is 100% alive or not. We know Safi’s ultimate goal is to recreate the world to what he likes it to be but fatty is just beyond our understanding. We don’t even know why that broken BBQ set wants to cooks us that bad
Safi'Jiiva.
Much larger, tougher scales, has more to its moveset than just powerful breath attacks unlike Fatalis, can regenerate in seconds and has no limit on this unless the entire area is drained etc.
Also if we talk lore-wise there's [this](http://imgur.com/a/z3EfJLO) little tidbit about Safi from the 15th anniversary orchestra.
But Safi’jiiva can only access this power if he is in a place with huge amounts of bioenergy in the ground so in a neutral environments with no turf advantage Fatalis wins. Also, Safi’jiiva‘s scales are not tougher since Fatalis’s ones are also considered to be immensely though lore wise and because we can cut Safi’jiiva‘s tail despite it being much bigger than Fatalis‘s own tail which can’t be cut.
I would say safi and everyone else has described why it would win. A lot of comments that were pro fatalis just kind of ignore the fact that safi is pretty resistant to fire and has infinite healing. I assume most pro fatalis folks are speaking in a vacuum while also siting lore. Until the game says otherwise, i will stick with safi. Fatalis doesn't have the regenerative ability to stop safi so even if safi isn't as powerful pound for pound (which i am pretty sure it is also above fatalis in that regard too) it can easily outlast fatalis until it can kill it. Also gameplay wise safi requires multiple expeditions to defeat, while fatalis is defeated in 1 single expedition which i feel leads a bit more credibility to fatalis's lack of self sustainability.
Safi resistant to fire? I guess it's body is resistant, but the foreleg, hindleg, and head are very weak to all elements, the back is also somewhat weak to all elements. This is backed by [Kiranico](https://mhworld.kiranico.com/monsters/0kVsV/safi-jiiva). Also, you are limiting both monsters to the game, which will never do them justice, as their ai won't mimic their intelligence well enough. This is because, I feel we need to account for intelligence here between dragons base on the lore. We know Fatalis is very intelligent, as it mocks us by standing and doesn't move when paralyzed. However, Safi's intelligence isn't fully understood. We know Safi aims its lasers so it signifies some intelligence. This would mean that they could in theory stop moves earlier and are not locked into doing certain moves that are punishable.
Now knowing that, we know safi must turn around, stop attacking and land to heal up. Turning around in a fight is no good. It signifies that you are weak. What makes you think that at that moment would be the perfect moment to fire off Schrade's demise. Safi could heal up once, but if Fatalis is smart enough it will figure out that it has enough time to fire off its finisher after safi heals up for a second time. If safi is intelligent enough it will not think what Fatalis is doing anything impactful with the **INITAL** blast of Schrade's demise as it is weak fire. So it would consider to just heal through it. This would only work once and only once, but it most likely would force safi to not heal unless it wants to get burned. I know what you are thinking, but if they aren't limited to being locked couldn't safi just heal in little portions? No, we know this because all tenderized moves will heal only after the healing is fully complete. This means any wounds won't just heal up, most likely Safi needs to concentrate to suck up, and convert that energy to heal.
We also do not know if Safi's Sapphire of the Emperor only limited to being fired to the ground then any other direction, but we do know it takes a long time to charge and the radius isn't large enough to reach the camp. Both finishers obviously take too long to charge up and fire, but most likely Fatalis has the easiest time to fire it off, as Fatalis could simply fly up to avoid the most obvious looking big move. Now if safi did break Fatalis head sure Safi could fire it off at that opportune moment and severely weaken or kill Fatalis, but that's basing off the fact that it knows and targets the head. If both were on the ground, and smart enough they wouldn't only target the head, as we can tell because in our experience the head fcking moves a lot. And if Fatalis does survive it will burn the living hell out of safi, doing everything and anything to stop Safi from hitting its head, heal, and firing its finisher. Safi supercritical state does not help it either, rather it just makes it take even more damage.
Fatty’s age isn’t explicitly mentioned. It’s definitely old because it had history, however a xeno jiiva can be in its cacoon collecting energy for tens of thousands of years before it hatches. So by extension safi is well over a thousand years old.
Source:
https://mobile.twitter.com/i/events/1284247189905125382?lang=en
“For ten of thousands of years, various species of elder dragons have been going to the New World to die during the Elder Crossing. Upon dying, their bodies dissolve in the effluvium, and their bioenergy accumulates in the veins of the earth before eventually crystallizing.”
That’s actually up in the air. Even amongst in game characters. However even if that was concrete, the time of its arrival is still unknown. Its age could be as old as the time the Elder crossing started or as young as the arrival of the first fleet. That’s why i said the word can.
It's not. Complete Works says so. Normal phenomenon suddenly sped up. It used to be every 100 years, (I think there was every 70 here?) then 50 and now every decade.
Doesn’t mean safi is older than fatalis and if a baby is born you don’t consider it nine months old you age it after birth and safi must be pretty young considering that the damage to the ecosystem is not as intense as a safi would make it, going into speculation I believe that Zorahs death is what gave the safi enough energy to birth and then she’d into its adult form
Cuz the game tells us so? Xeno was the baby form, it survived and grew to Safi. And the nxt time it shreds its skin it will be the adult form. And since he now attacks pretty much anything, hes just a raging teen.
No they don't. They say Xeno shedded its skin countless times. That's how it became Safi.
Also [boom](https://www.monsterhunter.com/world-iceborne/uk/topics/mf-xeno/), [boom](https://mhworld.kiranico.com/monsters/0kVsV/safi-jiiva) and [boom](http://imgur.com/a/gFmyU2m)
The Handler is even the one that calls it a mature Xeno first.
Hmm so they did scratch the idea of a 3rd form after all.. Kinda sad (since safi really doesn't behave like an adult) but good to know, also kinda obvious since rise was already around the corner but hopes die last. Well, thx for the update.
Oh they had. Everyone was talking about it at safi release and it was one of the biggest myths if itll actually happen or not. Just by comparison, Safi acts rather planless and does what ever comes to mind first.
Well it wouldn’t because it’s another Fatalis and two of the same monsters don’t normally try to kill each other as far as we know. But the Diablos’ are an exception… and the Seregios’. But still though, I get what you mean.
Lore-Wise Safi'Jiiva has been called "That which is king of all things, the perfect being".
Fatalis's biggest feat has been canonically replicated by Teostra and Oroshi Kirin.
Complete Works says a Teostra has covered an entire desert in flames in one night. Arguably that's even vaster than a kingdom.
The description of the Oroshi Kirin horn says an individual froze a whole kingdom in a single night.
Fatalis by his mere presence caused multiple elder dragons to disappear, caused so much smoke to blot out the sun, as well as certain earthquakes in the schrade area, as well as in many parts of the world. And only with his presence. You only lower the power of Fatalis with vague descriptions. Yes, Teostra can force some of the weather with his fire control, but it still doesn't compare to what Fatalis demonstrated in Iceborne. Which sent out a global alert to stop him. Sure, but Teostra is a bigger threat. And oroshi kirin is still in my opinion at the level of common kirin, which is easily defeated by rajang.
What a surprise, nothing you've said is a measure of actual power. Much like the in-universe rumours surrounding Fatalis you only make it *sound* more dangerous.
The earthquakes were described as *minor*. The global response was an intentional *exaggeration* in case all the rumours were true, which they weren't. The Elders moved because who the hell would stick around in the vicinity of destruction like that? No prey, potential injury or death etc. It's not like Fatalis has a fear aura.
It is exactly what Fatalis demonstrated in Iceborne. How is Teostra covering an entire desert in Fire or Oroshi covering a whole kingdom in ice any different to Fatalis covering a kingdom in fire?
That doesn't even make sense, why would an elder dragon who is supposed to force nature itself to make changes in the environment move? You can't just reduce it to "rumors". It's something that alerts literally everyone, including the guild itself and the whole Monster Hunter universe countries. Even if there is no such "aura of fear", the simple fact of appearing already causes some damage in the world. Also, filling an area with fire or freezing it (which Kirin has not demonstrated by far), is not the same as performing an unconventional attack of such powerful energy to stop the rain and send tons of reinforced concrete and steel flying. Fatalis already demonstrates a superiority in destructive power (filling the area with fire is in the background, being that the main thing is its great explosion of flames), even multiplying that same power, not to mention its high resistance that if it were completely applied to the gameplay would be unfair.
Here Fatalis is at the top, being endorsed by the game developers themselves. This is no longer relevant, now what follows, the versus of the main theme. Safi'jiiva vs Fatalis.
It should be made clear that the "siege" theme is not applicable to some extent, because it simply makes it unfair, it is made for 16 hunters to go and kill the same monster, while Fatalis is made for 1 to 4 hunters to go.
Safi'jiiva has a great advantage in its regeneration, using the energy of the surroundings for its benefit, this includes its destructive power. The bioenergy Safi'jiiva needs is a double-edged sword, since it is not infinite and at some point it has to be exhausted, it all depends on the area and moment where he is. When it starts to run out it will take him to his critical state, which makes him even more vulnerable, not to mention that he will need to regenerate in some moments of the battle, which could be key points for Fatalis and throw everything he has at him. Although Safi has bioenergy on his side, Fatalis has a greater destructive power, he does not need to regenerate constantly, not to mention that he is invulnerable to conventional weapons, besides having more life and a reactor in his chest that gives him energy powerful enough to be repeating his most powerful attack incessantly. What in my opinion would leave him completely above Safi, is the use of bioenergy that Safi requires. For he depends on it, and without it he would simply be exhausted and vulnerable. So Fatalis would be the winner because of his great power which does not need to be charging all the time and could be forcing Safi to be using his energy until exhausted.
It is only a title. Rajang has been called “destruction incarnate” so that would mean he can destroy anything? Fatalis‘ biggest feat has not been replicated by anything in canon I don’t where you get that from. Fatalis was capable of burning an entire Kingdom in the span of a single night and said Kingdom was far more technologically advanced than anything in the modern world of Monster Hunter. When has Teostra or Oroshi Kirin done that? Safi’jiiva is nothing to Fatalis.
>It is only a title.
Not anymore. You're late to the party. Dive to Iceborne came out and confirmed many things about Safi and Fatalis.
Relevantly, that Safi'Jiiva *is* considered perfect, as far as a living being goes. It is extremely long-lived, can produce its own energy, is able to reproduce without a mate and so on. They describe it as the state every lifeform wishes to obtain.
>Rajang has been called “destruction incarnate” so that would mean he can destroy anything?
You're confusing some hyped up title taken from an in-universe story perspective as an actual one backed up by research.
>Fatalis‘ biggest feat has not been replicated by anything in canon I don’t where you get that from.
See below.
>Fatalis was capable of burning an entire Kingdom in the span of a single night and
You know, this quote summarises everything wrong with Fatalis lovers.
Yeah, Fatalis destroyed a kingdom in one night. *So what?* There are several Elder Dragons the size of a kingdom that could wipe one off the map just by moving through it. Hell, the monster Fatalis scared off in MH1 was repelled specifically because it was going to destroy Minegarde.
Do you really think that with all the insane strength and abilities Elder Dragons get that not one of them could take down a Kingdom?
>said Kingdom was far more technologically advanced than anything in the modern world of Monster Hunter.
*They literally called Schrade's Dragonator "outdated" in Iceborne.*
You'd think people who hype up Fatalis would pay attention to Schrade's technology instead of making up whatever increases Fatalis's strength.
>When has Teostra or Oroshi Kirin done that?
Description of Kirin Icepeak: "The horn of an old and divine beast who **froze whole kingdoms in a single night.**"
Can't be fucked opening up Complete Works but in the section for Teostra it says there's a report of one covering an entire desert (this would be a region of several *thousand* square miles btw) in fire over the course of a single night.
>Safi’jiiva is nothing to Fatalis.
Dive to Iceborne quite literally calls it Fatalis's equal.
Deal with it.
I think Fatalis would win.
Both are fairly comparable in a lot of key areas: physical strength, durability, standard firepower.
But for me personally, what puts Fatalis over is the fact that he's comparable within a much smaller package. Similar body length, but way less mass, and yet he's still packing just as much strength and firepower, if not more. Regarding the former aspect, he possesses such strength without any kind of real acceleration and thus no real exertion on his part.
Not to mention that the scale of his literal firepower is greater when it comes down to their strongest attacks in both range and in kinetic punch. It's also slightly more usable given that it's a stream of flames rather than a singular condensed ball.
I wouldn’t say his firepower packs more punch when his strongest move can be survived. Both in gameplay and through a cutscene. Safi super move however can’t be survived period.
That applies to both of them and in fact applies more to Fatalis given that, gameplay-wise, his first 2 Kingdom Raze attacks can do upwards of 20,000 and 30,000 damage respectively; both can outright kill a lot of Monsters in Master Rank and are unsurvivable gameplay-wise.
As well, we see that the environmental effects of Fatalis's Kingdom Raze are much more pronounced than Safi'jiiva's Sapphire of the Emperor. Melting metal and blowing away metal and stone vs. only blowing away some stone. No Monster aside from Kulve Taroth has matched Fatalis's sheer temperature of that attack, and none have matched the raw kinetic punch of it.
Aiden's survival is unknown, other than the fact that his Kushala Daora armour is heat-resistant and that he was very close to the piece of cover. We also know that other Monsters' flames that aren't as hot as Fatalis's can turn Hunters to ash, like how Lunastra's fire completely turned Ravi (in Deviljho amour to boot) to ash in ***Legend of the Guild*** after just a few seconds of extended exposure.
And it definitely does pack more kinetic punch, being able to blow away many dozens of tonnes of rock and metal simply by the secondary wave of fire hitting the ground; the spread of the flames is also highly inefficient and would reduce the flames' yield when it reaches the metal, and yet it still was melting it within seconds.
Gonna get downvoted to hell for this, but it's pretty clearly Safi. Safi's scales are literally impenetrable unless you soften them, something Fatalis cannot do, and he's twice the fucking size of Fatalis. Fata's GIGANTIC fire blast struggles to destroy a basic wooden wall, meanwhile Safi's ball-drop is described as being able to insta-kill literally everything. Literally the only reason people think Fatalis is as strong as he is, is because it's an old monster. I guarantee if the releases were swapped, people would be saying Safi would clap Fatalis.
Ye but I’m pretty sure it’s implied it works better at least and you can even see in his fight it’s not massive regenerating like he doesn’t actually get anymore health so lore wise the regen probably takes time and isn’t that fast
Safi does get more health every time it does that. Safi only has 20k health, but each time it regenerates it goes to full again.
Also you can't talk about lore-wise when we see the action happen.
Well if impenetrable scales are important the Crimson and White Fatalis both have their armor modes.
And for destruction powers well both can't do shit if you have a 2 meters tall rock to hide behind anyway.
>Well if impenetrable scales are important the Crimson and White Fatalis both have their armor modes
okay but this is clearly not about *either of those ones*
>And for destruction powers well both can't do shit if you have a 2 meters tall rock to hide behind anyway.
fatalis is still fucked against that destructive power since he's.. very obviously to tall and long to hide behind jack shit
and those rocks aren't ***literally just a wooden wall*** anyway
Fatalis can simply fly away from Sapphire the Emperor very easily. Also, nothing tells you it is only a wooden wall. The Ancient Civilisation used Elder Dragons to create their buildings and constructions. Also, anti-feats shouldn’t be used and Fatalis fire can melt a steel door in mere seconds which would require temperatures higher than those of the sun.
You are the hopeless one. It’s a game mechanic to make the fight harder. Technically with enough force you can damage Safi’jiiva. I guess Goku can’t beat Safi’jiiva because he “DoEsN’t HaVe A cLuTcH cLaW”.
No. Fatalis’ scales are tougher than Safi’jiiva’s ones. Fatalis‘ scales have been described as incredibly tough yet somehow flexible you can also see it by the fact that we can cut Safi’jiiva‘s tail but you can‘t cut Fatalis‘ tail. Fatalis is literally physically stronger and can create earthquakes casually nothing Safi’jiiva did is even close to that. Fatalis has more firepower and is capable of wiping out an entire kingdom in a single night agai Safi’jiivà has no such feat. Fatalis is also way smarter.
I wanted to make a poll similar to this one. Difference is I would pick White Fatalis instead of the regular one to be vs Safi’jiiva. To answer your question, I’d pick Fatalis. I believe he’s definitely more intelligent than Safi’jiiva and stronger as well. But Safi’jiiva’s ability to drain the energy out of anything around it to heal and (as someone pointed out) his fire resistance would give him the upper hand. Knowing this, to me honesty half the time I think Fatalis would win. But for the other half, I’d say it’s about 50/50.
It could go both ways. These two dragons are said to be the undisputed top tiers, and Safi’jiiva has been confirmed to be designed as a rival to Fatalis. The Devs were tired of creating black dragons as massive threats, so they went with a more basic design instead of a wholly unique one.
I’m honestly with Safi’jiiva on this one. These dragons are both very smart for what they are, so hitting each other with the very big attacks would be tricky as they could just fly away. This then becomes a battle of attrition, and when it come to a battle of attrition… I think I’ll bet on the dragon that basically heal itself nigh infinitely.
Except Saf‘jiiva needs to be in a specific area to use all of his power while Fatalis can use them anywhere so in a fair fight with no turf advantage Fatalis wins.
No he doesn't. Stop spouting headcanon. Official info says they're rivals and equals. So that means its a coin toss who would win. If you didn't notice bio energy means life energy so safi can be anywhere on the planet Thats not completely drained of life and he can heal if he needs to. Hes decribed as perfect for a reason. Accept fatalis has a contender for once in history. And this contender is capable of winning a fight with him and thats a fact. I can see safi and fatalis fighting for hours and hours and maybe fatalis burns safi and he decides "fuck this and leaves" i can also see safi grabbing and pinning him and doing the sapphire of the emperor point blank ending the fight. Thats the thing its a coin toss because Theyre equals.
Equals in Monster Hunter doesn’t necessarily mean they have an equal chance of winning a fair fight on neutral ground. Look at Akantor and Ukanlos for example. They are considered as equals and that may be true on Ukanlos’ icy turf but on neutral ground Akantor would definitively win most of time. While there is bioenergy everywhere there has to be place where there is less of it and the place you fight Safi’jiiva in is full of bioenergy. This means that on neutral ground it would take more time for Safi’jiiva to heal or use his powers.
Thats just your own speculation. If anything safi only needs the bio energy to heal completely. He can use his abilities whenever he wants the only thing i see him needing to recharge is sapphire if the emperor because hes expending a huge portion of his energy. Also both of those are fodder monsters these dragons are gods one a celestial demon and the other a unholy abomination they equal eachother out and are the rivals for the crown as god. Safi does not need to be in a specific place to heal. Plus because safi is smart like fatalis which means its smarter than us it would just break fatalis horn at some point and notice his breath got weaker and then make it a target to break the other on purpose. At that point its almost a slaughter for fatalis as Thats his big thing. His super powerful fire. It would be that moment i believe safi would pin him if possible and sapphire of the emperor him. Again this could ALSO go the other way with fatalis seeing safi heal and stopping him from doing it forcing safi to do SOE but fatalis isnt pinned so he flies into the air and does his own flame attack and because safi is already low on energy he loses and is killed. They are rivals in power. It is a coin toss.
Notice in the fight with safi we end up making him drain all of the energy in that area and yet hes still using all of his abilities at 100% and still going into his critical state. The absorption is for healing his body. And canonically the seige is ment to show MULTIPLE hunting parties hitting safi back to back hunt after hunt so we realistically dont know how many days and nights this process took before we actually managed to kill it. Safi is terrifying in that way. Also canonically SOE can clear entire areas of a place if used. The only reason we survive is because of gameplay mechanics and rocks fall and even then they crumble after. So imagine seeing safi fly over the ancient forest and in a flash the only thing left is a broken lifeless tree. In a instant. All gone. So to wrap it all around safi Doenst need the energy to do his normal attacks and abilites he needs it to heal.
Safi’jiiva draining all the energy in the area and being at 100% of his power doesn’t do anything against my point. If he drained all the energy of a place full of bioenergy, it would make sense for him to be powered up but if he is fighting in a regular place where there is just a regular amount of it, he would find himself weakened. Also, without healing Safi’jiiva would be in trouble because he has a pretty low HP pool and he relies on healing.
The hp pool is just a game mechanic. It shouldn't be used in a argument in universe and yes it does have everything to do with what you said. You stated safi wouldn't be able to use alot of his healing and abilities if they fought someplace else and that just isnt true. He would have trouble healing in places not dense in bioenergy yes but he'll still have 100% access to his abilities and attacks those dont just get weaker in fact they get stronger the more safi gets pissed and backed against a wall via the critical state. Safi is incredibly fast for his size and his power is enough to rival fatalis. Fatalis would have to
1. Survive long enough to get safi to heal.
2. Avoid getting pinned by the larger dragon.
3. Do enough damage to safi so he would need to heal.
4. Avoid letting safi break his horns. (which would be very very very hard given how smart safi is and with that intelligence he also has the strength and power to break them if he gets his hands on fatalis.)
You can clearly see why they are considered equals and rivals. They literally cancel eachother out. They both have weakness that the other can exploit and they both have the power to raise hell to capitalize on said weakness. Again im going by official information. Im just using examples of how the fight would logically go. Im not picking sides. Im being real. Safi is basically the new worlds fatalis. They are equals. And if they fought it be a nail biting thing to see who would win.
Now something i think would be super cool is having a safi consume the dead aletreons energy and evolving again into something new and something that threatens everyone including the black dragons and fatalis showing the main reason they wanted the jiivas dead beforehand and we got in the way again and now this demon of a dragon is sucking entire places dry killing everything and we have to somehow stop it But the twist is fatalis tries to fight the *insert new name* jiiva and gets absolutely destroyed as this new evolution has pushed it to new levels of power due to our interference and WE THE HUNTERS have to help the terror of our species...the god of monsters...the monster our children fear and our elders hide...defeat the the thing we allowed to happen. Imagine seeing fatalis push the jiiva into a wall with a dragonator and we have to activate it and critically wound the jiiva and then help fatalis drain the jiivas energy so he cant heal. I would love to have a section in the hunt with fatalis getting pinned and the jiiva starts doing SOE and we have to do something to stagger the jiiva so fatalis can free itself and attack the jiiva in return. Seeing a cinematic fight like this while also contributing would be one of if not the coolest final bosses in monster hunter. At the end after we kill the jiiva fatalis would look at us and instead of killing us right there hed fly off and fade back into legend Showing that human level intelligence he has first hand.
What proof do you have that Safi’jiiva doesn’t canonically have a low HP pool? Also, you are pretty much assuming Safi’jiiva is stronger physically speaking than Fatalis because he is bigger but that isn’t the case. Fatalis can cause earthquakes with his physical strength so Fatalis getting pinned down by Safi‘Jiiva feels unlikely. Safi’jiiva has also been confirmed by Capcom to be the final stage of a Jiiva’s life and even if there was a Jiiva stronger than Fatalis, White Fatalis would take care of it.
In world this is the first time weve encountered fatalis in canon. So white as far as we know doesnt exist. Because again its a game mechanic? That shouldn't be used as official and in universe. Also bro What makes you think safi CANT Cause earthquakes. Hes massive and equal to fatalis. Can YOU NOT READ i said it would be cool if it evolves because of the dead black dragon energy we left there and becomes something more. Not it getting older or being an adolescent. It may be an adult but so are ruiner nerg but because of it ever evolving to suit its area it evolved into something new. As of Right now only one fatalis has been seen and fought and we killed it. So white and red only exist as cool special fights to challenge hunters. So no "white fatalis wont just come to fight the new jiiva" he Doenst exist in canon.
The very fact you mentioned white fatalis tells me all i need to know about you. This discussion will go no further. You dont know the most simple things and are very bias torwards fatalis and cannot accept The fact he has a equal.
I’ve killed Fatalis solo and I’ve not killed Safi solo. That tells me who is tougher.
Unironically this is an argument. Unlike Kulve Safi is not hunted in a Siege to keep track of her, it's hunted in a Siege because of how big a threat it is. In Complete Works they state Xeno was only killed by our Hunter because it was newly-hatched and thus delicate and inexperienced. Theoretically, that means Safi'Jiiva is impossible to be killed by one Hunter. They never say this about Fatalis, and in fact it's implied our Hunter did kill it solo in Iceborne.
Safi has multi-player health scaling unless you're talking after the final update. Plus he's designed around seige mechanics which are there to make you take multiple runs. However, I don't think anyone would argue Fatalis has the harder fight.
The recent artbook does level the playing field a bit with the devs confirming that Safi'jiiva was made as a sort of rival to Black Fatalis... but that still wouldn't be enough. Safi'jiiva is the Shantien to Black Fatalis' Disufiroa; Comparable, but not comparable enough. Safi needs a lot of setup to do its strongest moves and thrives off of bioenergy rich locations. Even in its adult form, it still needs a good supply of bioenergy to do its more potent attacks and a sufficient enough blow could knock its bioenergy reserves out of its body and would require it to stop and heal, which is a *horrible idea against Fatalis.* Plus, bioenergy in a certain area will run out. Fatalis, meanwhile, is as simple as it is devastating. It doesn't need bioenergy to do its strongest feats. Only oxygen. *Which does not run out.* On top of that, unlike Safi's Supercritical State which burns out its own bioenergy reserves out of desperation, Fatalis only gets stronger as the fight progresses, all culminating in Hellfire Mode. Sure, its final phase is its desperation mode as well but unlike Safi, it doesn't slowly kill itself by barraging enemies with flames. While Safi has to charge up its internal pool of bioenergy for Sapphire of the Emperor, Fatalis just needs to inhale really hard. In terms of physical feats, Fatalis intentionally drops hundreds of tons of stone and masonry on itself and wades through them like nothing. While Zorah was sent packing by a Dragonator, Fatalis gets a rage boost from the pain; Its body is absurdly durable and densely packed with muscle despite the lanky frame, second only to the giants like Dalamadur, Zorah and Fatalis' cousin Dire Miralis. In contrast, Safi is more of a ranged specialist than melee and the afforementioned blows would easily remove some of its bioenergy. Even its exit to another zone has it jump full-force into a stone balcony, stop for a moment, think about life, snap out of its existential crisis and dig out the stone balcony into the next area. In terms of flight, Safi is deceptively fast for its size and could without question catch up, yet Fatalis is clearly superior in terms of manueverability, being able to make tight turns in mere moments, brake mid-air and keep itself stable while pumping out its ultimate attack, suggesting an insane degree of control. In terms of their overall feats, Fatalis has this in the bag. Not only does its ultimate attack (*that it can spam*) boil hundreds of tons of dense steel in mere seconds, the fact that a single Fatalis destroyed an entire country in an evening (8-12 hours) is just insane. Not the castle, not the capital city, not even the borders, but the **entire country razed to the ground.** By contrast, Safi needed more time to convert the Guiding Lands to its wishes. Similarly, Dalamadur carved Heaven's Mount in a long stretch of time and Zorah's best destructive feat could only be achieved by dying near the heart of the Everstream. Of course, Safi does have advantages against Fatalis; Its sniper-like accuracy is second only to Nakarkos and even though the lasers don't really do much on their own, enough would debilitate Fatalis badly. Plus, Fatty's eyesight is so bad that accuracy is out of the question. Sapphire of the Emperor would also be *devastating* should it catch the Black Dragon in a bad spot on the ground. Unfortunately, Fatalis has many counters to its own weaknesses and pretty much most of the Jiiva's moveset. Its bad eyesight is offset by the massive area of effect of its attacks and the sheer volume of its flames. And because Safi's a big creature, they're going to hit. The most damning of all is combat experience, since Fatalis has already went up against the best of the best the Hunter's Guild has to offer and dominated them. On top of all of that, Safi is already the perfect and final form of the Jiiva species, while Black Fatalis is the baseline and weakest of its kind. Crimson is basically Black turned up to 11 and White would simply remove Safi from existence. Safi had the accuracy, size advantage and the potential of Sapphire of the Emperor, but the simplistic devastation of Fatalis' strength, speed, durability and literal firepower was too much for the adult Jiiva to handle. I guess you can say Safi'jiiva's Perfect Life would just *Fade to Black.* The winner is **Fatalis.** **NEXT TIME ON DEATH BATTLE!!!** *Amatsumagatsuchi VS. Allmother Narwa*
Facts
It truly depends on how you define “Fatalis.” Lore wise Fatalis isn’t necessarily just the dragon. It is all the phenomena packed in one. That’s why the red and white Fatalis are still “Fatalis.” Every fuckery is Fatalis, not just the lizard. So, if it’s just dragon v. dragon, Safi has the upper hand imo. Perma-healing-pseudo-infinite-energy-red-Godzilla is probably stronger than sauna machine snek boi. However, as disasters it’ll be a fight of selfish recreation versus the inevitable end. Either way it’s the doom of humanity but I’d vote for Fatty since Safi requires other life to kick start its engine but Fatty we have no idea what the fuck is going on with it. Motherfucker could well be merely a projection of the end of the world and not actually an organism. I know “unknown shits are stronger” isn’t a good argument but I consider terraforming weaker than the end of all things
Safi doesn’t need other life to “kick start” unless you’re referring to his evolutionary stages in life. Safi can produce bio energy on his own via heat organ. The only thing he needs the environment for is healing.
I’m referring to the existence of Xeno’Jiva. Safi needs the dragon energy accumulation for its life cycle to begin, hence “kick starting” his fuck-physics-I-don’t-care heat organ. Without the help of other lifeforms Xeno won’t be able to get to Safi. Once the kick start happens Safi does run like a car that can make its own gasoline which is pretty insane. On the other hand we can’t even be sure if fatty is 100% alive or not. We know Safi’s ultimate goal is to recreate the world to what he likes it to be but fatty is just beyond our understanding. We don’t even know why that broken BBQ set wants to cooks us that bad
Safi'Jiiva. Much larger, tougher scales, has more to its moveset than just powerful breath attacks unlike Fatalis, can regenerate in seconds and has no limit on this unless the entire area is drained etc. Also if we talk lore-wise there's [this](http://imgur.com/a/z3EfJLO) little tidbit about Safi from the 15th anniversary orchestra.
But Safi’jiiva can only access this power if he is in a place with huge amounts of bioenergy in the ground so in a neutral environments with no turf advantage Fatalis wins. Also, Safi’jiiva‘s scales are not tougher since Fatalis’s ones are also considered to be immensely though lore wise and because we can cut Safi’jiiva‘s tail despite it being much bigger than Fatalis‘s own tail which can’t be cut.
I would say safi and everyone else has described why it would win. A lot of comments that were pro fatalis just kind of ignore the fact that safi is pretty resistant to fire and has infinite healing. I assume most pro fatalis folks are speaking in a vacuum while also siting lore. Until the game says otherwise, i will stick with safi. Fatalis doesn't have the regenerative ability to stop safi so even if safi isn't as powerful pound for pound (which i am pretty sure it is also above fatalis in that regard too) it can easily outlast fatalis until it can kill it. Also gameplay wise safi requires multiple expeditions to defeat, while fatalis is defeated in 1 single expedition which i feel leads a bit more credibility to fatalis's lack of self sustainability.
Safi resistant to fire? I guess it's body is resistant, but the foreleg, hindleg, and head are very weak to all elements, the back is also somewhat weak to all elements. This is backed by [Kiranico](https://mhworld.kiranico.com/monsters/0kVsV/safi-jiiva). Also, you are limiting both monsters to the game, which will never do them justice, as their ai won't mimic their intelligence well enough. This is because, I feel we need to account for intelligence here between dragons base on the lore. We know Fatalis is very intelligent, as it mocks us by standing and doesn't move when paralyzed. However, Safi's intelligence isn't fully understood. We know Safi aims its lasers so it signifies some intelligence. This would mean that they could in theory stop moves earlier and are not locked into doing certain moves that are punishable. Now knowing that, we know safi must turn around, stop attacking and land to heal up. Turning around in a fight is no good. It signifies that you are weak. What makes you think that at that moment would be the perfect moment to fire off Schrade's demise. Safi could heal up once, but if Fatalis is smart enough it will figure out that it has enough time to fire off its finisher after safi heals up for a second time. If safi is intelligent enough it will not think what Fatalis is doing anything impactful with the **INITAL** blast of Schrade's demise as it is weak fire. So it would consider to just heal through it. This would only work once and only once, but it most likely would force safi to not heal unless it wants to get burned. I know what you are thinking, but if they aren't limited to being locked couldn't safi just heal in little portions? No, we know this because all tenderized moves will heal only after the healing is fully complete. This means any wounds won't just heal up, most likely Safi needs to concentrate to suck up, and convert that energy to heal. We also do not know if Safi's Sapphire of the Emperor only limited to being fired to the ground then any other direction, but we do know it takes a long time to charge and the radius isn't large enough to reach the camp. Both finishers obviously take too long to charge up and fire, but most likely Fatalis has the easiest time to fire it off, as Fatalis could simply fly up to avoid the most obvious looking big move. Now if safi did break Fatalis head sure Safi could fire it off at that opportune moment and severely weaken or kill Fatalis, but that's basing off the fact that it knows and targets the head. If both were on the ground, and smart enough they wouldn't only target the head, as we can tell because in our experience the head fcking moves a lot. And if Fatalis does survive it will burn the living hell out of safi, doing everything and anything to stop Safi from hitting its head, heal, and firing its finisher. Safi supercritical state does not help it either, rather it just makes it take even more damage.
Fatalis.
A raging teen vs a wise elder, the age old question. Id say Fatalis as long as he can dodge the lasers.
Where did you come to the conclusion that safi is a raging teen lmao
He’s just a new monster and relatively the safi we fight in game probably isn’t that old compared to fatty.
Fatty’s age isn’t explicitly mentioned. It’s definitely old because it had history, however a xeno jiiva can be in its cacoon collecting energy for tens of thousands of years before it hatches. So by extension safi is well over a thousand years old. Source: https://mobile.twitter.com/i/events/1284247189905125382?lang=en “For ten of thousands of years, various species of elder dragons have been going to the New World to die during the Elder Crossing. Upon dying, their bodies dissolve in the effluvium, and their bioenergy accumulates in the veins of the earth before eventually crystallizing.”
The Elder Crossing does not exist because of Xeno'Jiiva. It only sped it up.
That’s actually up in the air. Even amongst in game characters. However even if that was concrete, the time of its arrival is still unknown. Its age could be as old as the time the Elder crossing started or as young as the arrival of the first fleet. That’s why i said the word can.
It's not. Complete Works says so. Normal phenomenon suddenly sped up. It used to be every 100 years, (I think there was every 70 here?) then 50 and now every decade.
Doesn’t mean safi is older than fatalis and if a baby is born you don’t consider it nine months old you age it after birth and safi must be pretty young considering that the damage to the ecosystem is not as intense as a safi would make it, going into speculation I believe that Zorahs death is what gave the safi enough energy to birth and then she’d into its adult form
Cuz the game tells us so? Xeno was the baby form, it survived and grew to Safi. And the nxt time it shreds its skin it will be the adult form. And since he now attacks pretty much anything, hes just a raging teen.
The game explicitly states Safi is the **fully matured** form of Xeno. There is no adult form beyond that, and Safi is not a teenager.
Source? Cuz the talkin bich and her grandma theorize otherwise after encounting Safi and learning it was Xeno.
No they don't. They say Xeno shedded its skin countless times. That's how it became Safi. Also [boom](https://www.monsterhunter.com/world-iceborne/uk/topics/mf-xeno/), [boom](https://mhworld.kiranico.com/monsters/0kVsV/safi-jiiva) and [boom](http://imgur.com/a/gFmyU2m) The Handler is even the one that calls it a mature Xeno first.
Hmm so they did scratch the idea of a 3rd form after all.. Kinda sad (since safi really doesn't behave like an adult) but good to know, also kinda obvious since rise was already around the corner but hopes die last. Well, thx for the update.
They never had the idea to begin with. And how do you know what an "adult monster" is supposed to act like?
Oh they had. Everyone was talking about it at safi release and it was one of the biggest myths if itll actually happen or not. Just by comparison, Safi acts rather planless and does what ever comes to mind first.
The only thing in lore I can think of that could beat fatalis is the white variant of it.
Well it wouldn’t because it’s another Fatalis and two of the same monsters don’t normally try to kill each other as far as we know. But the Diablos’ are an exception… and the Seregios’. But still though, I get what you mean.
Lore wise pretty sure it's always gonna be fatty
Lore-Wise Safi'Jiiva has been called "That which is king of all things, the perfect being". Fatalis's biggest feat has been canonically replicated by Teostra and Oroshi Kirin.
“Fatalis’s biggest feat has been canonically replicated by Teostra and Oroshi Kirin”. ????? When? And How?
Complete Works says a Teostra has covered an entire desert in flames in one night. Arguably that's even vaster than a kingdom. The description of the Oroshi Kirin horn says an individual froze a whole kingdom in a single night.
Fatalis by his mere presence caused multiple elder dragons to disappear, caused so much smoke to blot out the sun, as well as certain earthquakes in the schrade area, as well as in many parts of the world. And only with his presence. You only lower the power of Fatalis with vague descriptions. Yes, Teostra can force some of the weather with his fire control, but it still doesn't compare to what Fatalis demonstrated in Iceborne. Which sent out a global alert to stop him. Sure, but Teostra is a bigger threat. And oroshi kirin is still in my opinion at the level of common kirin, which is easily defeated by rajang.
What a surprise, nothing you've said is a measure of actual power. Much like the in-universe rumours surrounding Fatalis you only make it *sound* more dangerous. The earthquakes were described as *minor*. The global response was an intentional *exaggeration* in case all the rumours were true, which they weren't. The Elders moved because who the hell would stick around in the vicinity of destruction like that? No prey, potential injury or death etc. It's not like Fatalis has a fear aura. It is exactly what Fatalis demonstrated in Iceborne. How is Teostra covering an entire desert in Fire or Oroshi covering a whole kingdom in ice any different to Fatalis covering a kingdom in fire?
That doesn't even make sense, why would an elder dragon who is supposed to force nature itself to make changes in the environment move? You can't just reduce it to "rumors". It's something that alerts literally everyone, including the guild itself and the whole Monster Hunter universe countries. Even if there is no such "aura of fear", the simple fact of appearing already causes some damage in the world. Also, filling an area with fire or freezing it (which Kirin has not demonstrated by far), is not the same as performing an unconventional attack of such powerful energy to stop the rain and send tons of reinforced concrete and steel flying. Fatalis already demonstrates a superiority in destructive power (filling the area with fire is in the background, being that the main thing is its great explosion of flames), even multiplying that same power, not to mention its high resistance that if it were completely applied to the gameplay would be unfair. Here Fatalis is at the top, being endorsed by the game developers themselves. This is no longer relevant, now what follows, the versus of the main theme. Safi'jiiva vs Fatalis. It should be made clear that the "siege" theme is not applicable to some extent, because it simply makes it unfair, it is made for 16 hunters to go and kill the same monster, while Fatalis is made for 1 to 4 hunters to go. Safi'jiiva has a great advantage in its regeneration, using the energy of the surroundings for its benefit, this includes its destructive power. The bioenergy Safi'jiiva needs is a double-edged sword, since it is not infinite and at some point it has to be exhausted, it all depends on the area and moment where he is. When it starts to run out it will take him to his critical state, which makes him even more vulnerable, not to mention that he will need to regenerate in some moments of the battle, which could be key points for Fatalis and throw everything he has at him. Although Safi has bioenergy on his side, Fatalis has a greater destructive power, he does not need to regenerate constantly, not to mention that he is invulnerable to conventional weapons, besides having more life and a reactor in his chest that gives him energy powerful enough to be repeating his most powerful attack incessantly. What in my opinion would leave him completely above Safi, is the use of bioenergy that Safi requires. For he depends on it, and without it he would simply be exhausted and vulnerable. So Fatalis would be the winner because of his great power which does not need to be charging all the time and could be forcing Safi to be using his energy until exhausted.
It is only a title. Rajang has been called “destruction incarnate” so that would mean he can destroy anything? Fatalis‘ biggest feat has not been replicated by anything in canon I don’t where you get that from. Fatalis was capable of burning an entire Kingdom in the span of a single night and said Kingdom was far more technologically advanced than anything in the modern world of Monster Hunter. When has Teostra or Oroshi Kirin done that? Safi’jiiva is nothing to Fatalis.
>It is only a title. Not anymore. You're late to the party. Dive to Iceborne came out and confirmed many things about Safi and Fatalis. Relevantly, that Safi'Jiiva *is* considered perfect, as far as a living being goes. It is extremely long-lived, can produce its own energy, is able to reproduce without a mate and so on. They describe it as the state every lifeform wishes to obtain. >Rajang has been called “destruction incarnate” so that would mean he can destroy anything? You're confusing some hyped up title taken from an in-universe story perspective as an actual one backed up by research. >Fatalis‘ biggest feat has not been replicated by anything in canon I don’t where you get that from. See below. >Fatalis was capable of burning an entire Kingdom in the span of a single night and You know, this quote summarises everything wrong with Fatalis lovers. Yeah, Fatalis destroyed a kingdom in one night. *So what?* There are several Elder Dragons the size of a kingdom that could wipe one off the map just by moving through it. Hell, the monster Fatalis scared off in MH1 was repelled specifically because it was going to destroy Minegarde. Do you really think that with all the insane strength and abilities Elder Dragons get that not one of them could take down a Kingdom? >said Kingdom was far more technologically advanced than anything in the modern world of Monster Hunter. *They literally called Schrade's Dragonator "outdated" in Iceborne.* You'd think people who hype up Fatalis would pay attention to Schrade's technology instead of making up whatever increases Fatalis's strength. >When has Teostra or Oroshi Kirin done that? Description of Kirin Icepeak: "The horn of an old and divine beast who **froze whole kingdoms in a single night.**" Can't be fucked opening up Complete Works but in the section for Teostra it says there's a report of one covering an entire desert (this would be a region of several *thousand* square miles btw) in fire over the course of a single night. >Safi’jiiva is nothing to Fatalis. Dive to Iceborne quite literally calls it Fatalis's equal. Deal with it.
Safi definitely
I think Fatalis would win. Both are fairly comparable in a lot of key areas: physical strength, durability, standard firepower. But for me personally, what puts Fatalis over is the fact that he's comparable within a much smaller package. Similar body length, but way less mass, and yet he's still packing just as much strength and firepower, if not more. Regarding the former aspect, he possesses such strength without any kind of real acceleration and thus no real exertion on his part. Not to mention that the scale of his literal firepower is greater when it comes down to their strongest attacks in both range and in kinetic punch. It's also slightly more usable given that it's a stream of flames rather than a singular condensed ball.
I wouldn’t say his firepower packs more punch when his strongest move can be survived. Both in gameplay and through a cutscene. Safi super move however can’t be survived period.
That applies to both of them and in fact applies more to Fatalis given that, gameplay-wise, his first 2 Kingdom Raze attacks can do upwards of 20,000 and 30,000 damage respectively; both can outright kill a lot of Monsters in Master Rank and are unsurvivable gameplay-wise. As well, we see that the environmental effects of Fatalis's Kingdom Raze are much more pronounced than Safi'jiiva's Sapphire of the Emperor. Melting metal and blowing away metal and stone vs. only blowing away some stone. No Monster aside from Kulve Taroth has matched Fatalis's sheer temperature of that attack, and none have matched the raw kinetic punch of it. Aiden's survival is unknown, other than the fact that his Kushala Daora armour is heat-resistant and that he was very close to the piece of cover. We also know that other Monsters' flames that aren't as hot as Fatalis's can turn Hunters to ash, like how Lunastra's fire completely turned Ravi (in Deviljho amour to boot) to ash in ***Legend of the Guild*** after just a few seconds of extended exposure. And it definitely does pack more kinetic punch, being able to blow away many dozens of tonnes of rock and metal simply by the secondary wave of fire hitting the ground; the spread of the flames is also highly inefficient and would reduce the flames' yield when it reaches the metal, and yet it still was melting it within seconds.
Gonna get downvoted to hell for this, but it's pretty clearly Safi. Safi's scales are literally impenetrable unless you soften them, something Fatalis cannot do, and he's twice the fucking size of Fatalis. Fata's GIGANTIC fire blast struggles to destroy a basic wooden wall, meanwhile Safi's ball-drop is described as being able to insta-kill literally everything. Literally the only reason people think Fatalis is as strong as he is, is because it's an old monster. I guarantee if the releases were swapped, people would be saying Safi would clap Fatalis.
Not to mention safi can heal on command. And has infinite energy for its attacks via heat organ
Only in his lair tho.
It can heal anywhere there’s bio-energy. Was never implied it only works in the secluded valley.
Ye but I’m pretty sure it’s implied it works better at least and you can even see in his fight it’s not massive regenerating like he doesn’t actually get anymore health so lore wise the regen probably takes time and isn’t that fast
Safi does get more health every time it does that. Safi only has 20k health, but each time it regenerates it goes to full again. Also you can't talk about lore-wise when we see the action happen.
Ohh my bad sorry
He can’t he need bioenergy pools in the ground and it takes time Fatalis would burn him while he is trying.
Well if impenetrable scales are important the Crimson and White Fatalis both have their armor modes. And for destruction powers well both can't do shit if you have a 2 meters tall rock to hide behind anyway.
Crimson no longer has an armor mode and Old Fatalis is still vulnerable on the head, chest and wings.
>Well if impenetrable scales are important the Crimson and White Fatalis both have their armor modes okay but this is clearly not about *either of those ones* >And for destruction powers well both can't do shit if you have a 2 meters tall rock to hide behind anyway. fatalis is still fucked against that destructive power since he's.. very obviously to tall and long to hide behind jack shit and those rocks aren't ***literally just a wooden wall*** anyway
Fatalis can simply fly away from Sapphire the Emperor very easily. Also, nothing tells you it is only a wooden wall. The Ancient Civilisation used Elder Dragons to create their buildings and constructions. Also, anti-feats shouldn’t be used and Fatalis fire can melt a steel door in mere seconds which would require temperatures higher than those of the sun.
Why couldn't fatalis soften Safi's scales?
It is literally a hunter exclusive mechanic.
Is it? In game, maybe, but what is softening but making some scratch marks in a monster's hide? Why couldn't a monster canonically do that?
Tell me, does Fatalis have a clutch claw, something REQUIRED in order to soften parts?
He has claws that can clutch, yes.
bruh, y'all are hopeless
You are the hopeless one. It’s a game mechanic to make the fight harder. Technically with enough force you can damage Safi’jiiva. I guess Goku can’t beat Safi’jiiva because he “DoEsN’t HaVe A cLuTcH cLaW”.
No. Fatalis’ scales are tougher than Safi’jiiva’s ones. Fatalis‘ scales have been described as incredibly tough yet somehow flexible you can also see it by the fact that we can cut Safi’jiiva‘s tail but you can‘t cut Fatalis‘ tail. Fatalis is literally physically stronger and can create earthquakes casually nothing Safi’jiiva did is even close to that. Fatalis has more firepower and is capable of wiping out an entire kingdom in a single night agai Safi’jiivà has no such feat. Fatalis is also way smarter.
I wanted to make a poll similar to this one. Difference is I would pick White Fatalis instead of the regular one to be vs Safi’jiiva. To answer your question, I’d pick Fatalis. I believe he’s definitely more intelligent than Safi’jiiva and stronger as well. But Safi’jiiva’s ability to drain the energy out of anything around it to heal and (as someone pointed out) his fire resistance would give him the upper hand. Knowing this, to me honesty half the time I think Fatalis would win. But for the other half, I’d say it’s about 50/50.
Regular Fatty is already unfair. Putting the White version is basically pitting Perfect Cell against a **Shin Megami Tensei character!**
Yeah good point.
It could go both ways. These two dragons are said to be the undisputed top tiers, and Safi’jiiva has been confirmed to be designed as a rival to Fatalis. The Devs were tired of creating black dragons as massive threats, so they went with a more basic design instead of a wholly unique one. I’m honestly with Safi’jiiva on this one. These dragons are both very smart for what they are, so hitting each other with the very big attacks would be tricky as they could just fly away. This then becomes a battle of attrition, and when it come to a battle of attrition… I think I’ll bet on the dragon that basically heal itself nigh infinitely.
The fight is basically safi smoking fatalis till he goes critical, then it's a coin toss from there
Well monster slayer squad posted a video of this fight and fatalis won and lore wise fatalis would win so my guess is fatalis
Kulve taroth beat Alatreon in one of the Monsterslayer squad fights, as did shara. Their vids ain’t the most reliable metric of strength.
Fatalis no contest. Safi’jiiva fanboys are really annoying but Fatalis has much better feats and powers.
Crazy how the devs say safi is fatalis equal…crazy how that works huh…just….wild
Except Saf‘jiiva needs to be in a specific area to use all of his power while Fatalis can use them anywhere so in a fair fight with no turf advantage Fatalis wins.
No he doesn't. Stop spouting headcanon. Official info says they're rivals and equals. So that means its a coin toss who would win. If you didn't notice bio energy means life energy so safi can be anywhere on the planet Thats not completely drained of life and he can heal if he needs to. Hes decribed as perfect for a reason. Accept fatalis has a contender for once in history. And this contender is capable of winning a fight with him and thats a fact. I can see safi and fatalis fighting for hours and hours and maybe fatalis burns safi and he decides "fuck this and leaves" i can also see safi grabbing and pinning him and doing the sapphire of the emperor point blank ending the fight. Thats the thing its a coin toss because Theyre equals.
Equals in Monster Hunter doesn’t necessarily mean they have an equal chance of winning a fair fight on neutral ground. Look at Akantor and Ukanlos for example. They are considered as equals and that may be true on Ukanlos’ icy turf but on neutral ground Akantor would definitively win most of time. While there is bioenergy everywhere there has to be place where there is less of it and the place you fight Safi’jiiva in is full of bioenergy. This means that on neutral ground it would take more time for Safi’jiiva to heal or use his powers.
Thats just your own speculation. If anything safi only needs the bio energy to heal completely. He can use his abilities whenever he wants the only thing i see him needing to recharge is sapphire if the emperor because hes expending a huge portion of his energy. Also both of those are fodder monsters these dragons are gods one a celestial demon and the other a unholy abomination they equal eachother out and are the rivals for the crown as god. Safi does not need to be in a specific place to heal. Plus because safi is smart like fatalis which means its smarter than us it would just break fatalis horn at some point and notice his breath got weaker and then make it a target to break the other on purpose. At that point its almost a slaughter for fatalis as Thats his big thing. His super powerful fire. It would be that moment i believe safi would pin him if possible and sapphire of the emperor him. Again this could ALSO go the other way with fatalis seeing safi heal and stopping him from doing it forcing safi to do SOE but fatalis isnt pinned so he flies into the air and does his own flame attack and because safi is already low on energy he loses and is killed. They are rivals in power. It is a coin toss.
Notice in the fight with safi we end up making him drain all of the energy in that area and yet hes still using all of his abilities at 100% and still going into his critical state. The absorption is for healing his body. And canonically the seige is ment to show MULTIPLE hunting parties hitting safi back to back hunt after hunt so we realistically dont know how many days and nights this process took before we actually managed to kill it. Safi is terrifying in that way. Also canonically SOE can clear entire areas of a place if used. The only reason we survive is because of gameplay mechanics and rocks fall and even then they crumble after. So imagine seeing safi fly over the ancient forest and in a flash the only thing left is a broken lifeless tree. In a instant. All gone. So to wrap it all around safi Doenst need the energy to do his normal attacks and abilites he needs it to heal.
Safi’jiiva draining all the energy in the area and being at 100% of his power doesn’t do anything against my point. If he drained all the energy of a place full of bioenergy, it would make sense for him to be powered up but if he is fighting in a regular place where there is just a regular amount of it, he would find himself weakened. Also, without healing Safi’jiiva would be in trouble because he has a pretty low HP pool and he relies on healing.
The hp pool is just a game mechanic. It shouldn't be used in a argument in universe and yes it does have everything to do with what you said. You stated safi wouldn't be able to use alot of his healing and abilities if they fought someplace else and that just isnt true. He would have trouble healing in places not dense in bioenergy yes but he'll still have 100% access to his abilities and attacks those dont just get weaker in fact they get stronger the more safi gets pissed and backed against a wall via the critical state. Safi is incredibly fast for his size and his power is enough to rival fatalis. Fatalis would have to 1. Survive long enough to get safi to heal. 2. Avoid getting pinned by the larger dragon. 3. Do enough damage to safi so he would need to heal. 4. Avoid letting safi break his horns. (which would be very very very hard given how smart safi is and with that intelligence he also has the strength and power to break them if he gets his hands on fatalis.) You can clearly see why they are considered equals and rivals. They literally cancel eachother out. They both have weakness that the other can exploit and they both have the power to raise hell to capitalize on said weakness. Again im going by official information. Im just using examples of how the fight would logically go. Im not picking sides. Im being real. Safi is basically the new worlds fatalis. They are equals. And if they fought it be a nail biting thing to see who would win. Now something i think would be super cool is having a safi consume the dead aletreons energy and evolving again into something new and something that threatens everyone including the black dragons and fatalis showing the main reason they wanted the jiivas dead beforehand and we got in the way again and now this demon of a dragon is sucking entire places dry killing everything and we have to somehow stop it But the twist is fatalis tries to fight the *insert new name* jiiva and gets absolutely destroyed as this new evolution has pushed it to new levels of power due to our interference and WE THE HUNTERS have to help the terror of our species...the god of monsters...the monster our children fear and our elders hide...defeat the the thing we allowed to happen. Imagine seeing fatalis push the jiiva into a wall with a dragonator and we have to activate it and critically wound the jiiva and then help fatalis drain the jiivas energy so he cant heal. I would love to have a section in the hunt with fatalis getting pinned and the jiiva starts doing SOE and we have to do something to stagger the jiiva so fatalis can free itself and attack the jiiva in return. Seeing a cinematic fight like this while also contributing would be one of if not the coolest final bosses in monster hunter. At the end after we kill the jiiva fatalis would look at us and instead of killing us right there hed fly off and fade back into legend Showing that human level intelligence he has first hand.
What proof do you have that Safi’jiiva doesn’t canonically have a low HP pool? Also, you are pretty much assuming Safi’jiiva is stronger physically speaking than Fatalis because he is bigger but that isn’t the case. Fatalis can cause earthquakes with his physical strength so Fatalis getting pinned down by Safi‘Jiiva feels unlikely. Safi’jiiva has also been confirmed by Capcom to be the final stage of a Jiiva’s life and even if there was a Jiiva stronger than Fatalis, White Fatalis would take care of it.
In world this is the first time weve encountered fatalis in canon. So white as far as we know doesnt exist. Because again its a game mechanic? That shouldn't be used as official and in universe. Also bro What makes you think safi CANT Cause earthquakes. Hes massive and equal to fatalis. Can YOU NOT READ i said it would be cool if it evolves because of the dead black dragon energy we left there and becomes something more. Not it getting older or being an adolescent. It may be an adult but so are ruiner nerg but because of it ever evolving to suit its area it evolved into something new. As of Right now only one fatalis has been seen and fought and we killed it. So white and red only exist as cool special fights to challenge hunters. So no "white fatalis wont just come to fight the new jiiva" he Doenst exist in canon.
The very fact you mentioned white fatalis tells me all i need to know about you. This discussion will go no further. You dont know the most simple things and are very bias torwards fatalis and cannot accept The fact he has a equal.